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Originally posted by fareed:
dahlak, the term "White" and "Caucasoid" are not the same thing.

Most "white" people are "Caucasoids", but the reverse is not always true, because there are many Dark Caucasoid People around the world. Actually, there are more Dark Caucasoid people than white/light Caucasoid people.

The people in Egypt and East Africa are not the same, but of course there are exceptions with some in each population resembling each other.

True, Egyptians are considered "white" people in America, but this is only for official government business.

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Originally posted by Ayazid:

Nobody said that black or white is an ethnicity. This is an american opinon and not Egyptian one. Most Egyptian consider themselves to be "qamhy" ("wheat-colored" = light brown), however there are also many beed (whites) and somr (dark). However most Egyptians and other Middle Easteners are considered to be caucasoid.

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Originally posted by Ayazid:
And have [b]you ever been in Egypt? I don´t think so, if you claim that Lower Egyptians look like mullatoes ?!?

[/B]

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Yes i have, and my mother side is from delta side from a fellahi villige her side look no different from many east africans, a couple are light skin but they look no different from mulaoutoes here in US.

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Dahlak says: I never heard of black caucasoid, you are wrong about east africa, you never been there, you have no knowledge about east africa, i am not speaking for all east african, but you will find in east africa look like egyptain. I think you are not a real egyptain. A true Egyptain would never call him or her self as a white. Stop saying black caucasoid, there is no such thing. Take a vication to Eritrea or Ethiopia than we talk.

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Actually, terms like "caucasoid" are inaccurate anyway, which is why people like Fareed can make wild claims that "caucasians" can come in other colors besides 'white' European and can be "brown" or even "black"! LOL

The fact is Dahlak is correct, 'pure' full-blooded Egyptians look no different from many East Africans like Ethiopians or Eritreans. It is because of this fact that Fareed and others like him are just frustrated Afrangi!

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Multisphinx says: Yes i have, and my mother side is from delta side from a fellahi villige her side look no different from many east africans, a couple are light skin but they look no different from mulaoutoes here in US.

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Originally posted by multisphinx:

Yes i have, and my mother side is from delta side from a fellahi villige her side look no different from many east africans, a couple are light skin but they look no different from mulaoutoes here in US.

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Tayyib ya 3amm, bas hiya mneen bel zabt? Enta mish faker ism el qarya beta3etha walla eeh? Wa a7ebb a2ollak in feeh far2 kebeer been el nas fee Ethiopia wa shimal Masr ... As for Sa3ayeda, kollohom mish somr, ya3nee ba3dohom somr wa el ba3d el tani somr.

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Originally posted by multisphinx:
Ayzid u did not even awnser my question of weather u have been to egypt. all u said is that you wish u were but never awnsered my question.

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Aah, marra.

If you want to speak with me about my and your personal life, we can on email. I will not argue about my or your personal issues here. My email is: Hasan_Barnawy@hotmail.com

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Originally posted by dahlak:
in your dreams, you are not even from there how do you know? I can see how American brain washed are, what kind forum is this?

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I don´t what are you talking about man. Personal attacks won´t help you. Most Middle Easterners are not drammatically different from South Europeans and many (especially in el Sham - Levante, and also in Lower Egypt) look very close to South European and white. It´s not my dream but fact and if you don´t live fee el kawkab el a7mar you should know it.

As for those "racial" terms as asmar, qamhy and abyad, you are not familiar with them if you are really Arab?

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Originally posted by Djehuti:

The fact is Dahlak is correct, 'pure' full-blooded Egyptians look no different from many East Africans like Ethiopians or Eritreans. It is because of this fact that Fareed and others like him are just frustrated Afrangi!

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Nope, they are not afrangi, they are just Egyptians, whose opinion about these things is different from yours. By the way, the term is a little archaic and it´s only rarely used. In Egyptian cities there is a plenty of Middle class people (both Lower and Upper Egyptians) who are heavily westernized and believe me or not they are not called afrangi at all. You can´t say who is "pure Egyptian" and who is not according to his look.

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Originally posted by Ayazid:

Nope, they are not afrangi, they are just Egyptians, whose opinion about these things is different from yours. By the way, the term is a little archaic and it´s only rarely used. In Egyptian cities there is a plenty of Middle class people (both Lower and Upper Egyptians) who are heavily westernized and believe me or not they are not called afrangi at all. You can´t say who is "pure Egyptian" and who is not according to his look.

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You are misunderstanding the message that Djehuti, Multispinx and others have been trying to convey to you. They are not basing their observations merely on looks and color alone but on the cultural aspect and cultural migrations that have happened in Egypt for thousands of years. I know I didn't do the best with how I put it but I hope you can understand. You obviously don't know about the history of Egypt or would rather ignore it, to say the things you have been saying here.

Back to the original subject. For example the situation here in America. Most people who are here are NOT native to America. Yet just about every other nationlity (culture) seems to out number the indigenous population. Many ethnic groups (like my people, the Black Americans) have been here for hundreds of years, the Black people who came here as slaves/who didn't originate here can never say we are native to this land and therefore native culture belongs to us. That would be redicules. It defies, logic, reason and history. Neither can white folks claim to be native to America just because they basically hold much of the power here and now are in the majority (not for long though. But this is exactly what you are doing in claiming to be a descendant of Ancient Egyptians while not using any historical, etc. proof to support that silly claim.

The native Americans have not been the dominant culture in America for a hundred years or so. Native Ancient Egyptians have not been the dominant culture in thousands of years!! So you should obviously see how stupid and desparate you look just to say you have a culture worth talking about. You do not have to steal some else's culture to have self-esteem. Just learn to love yourself and your people as you are and where you stand today.

Ancient Egypt belongs to Black Africans.

These are true Mulattos.

Sorry but These people dont look like theyre from masr.

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Originally posted by ali_egypt:
Upper Egyptians look nothing like mulattos.

These are true Mulattos.

These people dont look like theyre from masr.

[This message has been edited by ali_egypt (edited 15 July 2005).]

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Originally posted by multisphinx:
Ali remember egypt is diverse today, and depending on the region and the history of what ppl settled in that region the ppl look different, you look to be more syrian or arab lookin maybe u have ansestory to them. Everyone in egypt to day is egyptian, as everyone here living in america is american.

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Listen up wad al harm, We all know Egypt is diverse but Egyptians look nothing like Mulattos(Mules; North European+Congoid mixed).

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Originally posted by ali_egypt:
I can't even believe you said these people look egyptian...

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Originally posted by ali_egypt:
Yen 'aal deek ommak, You truly are a idiot. You only look at skin color. Egyptians have totally different and distinct features to Mulattos.

[This message has been edited by ali_egypt (edited 15 July 2005).]

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Originally posted by ali_egypt:
yea right...

[This message has been edited by ali_egypt (edited 15 July 2005).]

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hey, m tryin to have a respectful conversation. You are being ignorant. The reason these phenotypes are in egyptians is because its in the gene pool.

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Originally posted by Ayazid:

I don´t what are you talking about man. Personal attacks won´t help you. Most Middle Easterners are not drammatically different from South Europeans and many (especially in el Sham - Levante, and also in Lower Egypt) look very close to South European and white. It´s not my dream but fact and if you don´t live fee el kawkab el a7mar you should know it.

As for those "racial" terms as asmar, qamhy and abyad, you are not familiar with them if you are really Arab?

And I am certainly not "American brain washed", only in your dreams.

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Originally posted by dahlak:
I know more than you do about real Arabs, because i am an Arab. You are not even Arab. Example in Kuwait you will find a lot dark skin Arabs, Even in other Arab states. Have you ever been there??????? I am real ARAB and a true Arab would never call him or her self as caucasoid never. The first time on this forum i heard such imagination and lies. If you know history all started in Yemen back then was Southern Arabia. Actually most true Arabs call your westner people white meet. I don`t think you have any knowledge, i can`t stand like you people and end of discussion.

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The jig is up, YOU ARE ARAB, not Egyptian or “pure” Egyptian. Why do Arabs try to claim Ancient Egypt? Isn’t that the same as AFRICAN-Americans claiming AE? What’s the difference, neither “can trace” their roots to AE. Arabs want to, but most African-Americans could care less. We know where we are from.

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Originally posted by tdogg:
The jig is up, YOU ARE ARAB, not Egyptian or “pure” Egyptian. Why do Arabs try to claim Ancient Egypt? Isn’t that the same as AFRICAN-Americans claiming AE? What’s the difference, neither “can trace” their roots to AE. Arabs want to, but most African-Americans could care less. We know where we are from.

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Originally posted by ali_egypt:
Yen 'aal deek ommak, You truly are a idiot. You only look at skin color. Egyptians have totally different and distinct features to Mulattos.

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LOL You're the idiot! Africans vary in their features. peoples in East and Northeast Africa have different feautures from West Africans, which black Americans are desendants of. However Multisphinx was right that the color is the same as "mulattos."

Besides, it's a common stereotype that Upper Egyptians, especially those in Aswan are black or really dark. Which begs the question, exactly what part of Aswan are you from? You must be from the Arab areas or something.

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Originally posted by dahlak:
I know more than you do about real Arabs, because i am an Arab. You are not even Arab. Example in Kuwait you will find a lot dark skin Arabs, Even in other Arab states. Have you ever been there??????? I am real ARAB and a true Arab would never call him or her self as caucasoid never. The first time on this forum i heard such imagination and lies. If you know history all started in Yemen back then was Southern Arabia. Actually most true Arabs call your westner people white meet. I don`t think you have any knowledge, i can`t stand like you people and end of discussion.

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Originally posted by ali_egypt:
Yen 'aal deek ommak, You truly are a idiot. You only look at skin color. Egyptians have totally different and distinct features to Mulattos.

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It´s true that those people in the picks look strange and quite non-Egyptian, however there are also many mulattoes who could pass for some Upper Egyptians. You are right that people in Delta and Middle Egypt mostly don´t look like mulattoes, however in Upper Egypt there are many people who do. When you are arguing with people like Djehuti and multisphinx, don´t be the same demagogue like them. This is just my advice for you.

And be polite.

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Originally posted by ali_egypt:

Sorry but These people dont look like theyre from masr.

[This message has been edited by ali_egypt (edited 15 July 2005).]

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the one on the bottom looks a lot like my dad, and has similiar features to me, so you can't say they look nothing like Egyptians. there are many Egyptians who look like that, and even ones with more defined features.

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Originally posted by tdogg:
The jig is up, YOU ARE ARAB, not Egyptian or “pure” Egyptian. Why do Arabs try to claim Ancient Egypt? Isn’t that the same as AFRICAN-Americans claiming AE? What’s the difference, neither “can trace” their roots to AE. Arabs want to, but most African-Americans could care less. We know where we are from.

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Originally posted by Ayazid:

3ala el 3omoom, shokran 3ala adabak ya ragel. You insult me, but I don´t know why. Well, it´s your taree2a of speech. Unfortunately, not all people have some basic knowledge of decency and politeness, but what I can do? De khal2et Rabbena ...
Your post is more emotional than factual. I know very good that there are many dark-skined people (somr) in all Arab countries, however it doesn´t mean that all Arabs are dark. There are many quite light-skined and even white people. The hell what is the "true Arab" ??? How do you define this word? Saudi or Yemeni bedouin? I agree with you that such person would never call himself "caucasoid". The reason is obvious: These people are not familiar with western racial classification, because traditional Arab "classification" is based only on color of skin. People in Yemen and Saudi Arabia tend to be dark-skined, but there are also some relatively light types.

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Originally posted by dahlak:
I did not say all Arabs are dark, my point is i don`t care what you say, THEY ARE NOT WHITE. The other thing is you are not arab and i don`t think you have been in Arab countrys. There are light, brown, dark and even darker skin Arabs. We have no incommen with caucasoid. I think you don`t know the different between a true Arab and Arabized. Why don`t you try to find out from what caves your anciestry came from.

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Originally posted by dahlak:
I did not say all Arabs are dark, my point is i don`t care what you say, THEY ARE NOT WHITE. The other thing is you are not arab and i don`t think you have been in Arab countrys. There are light, brown, dark and even darker skin Arabs. We have no incommen with caucasoid. I think you don`t know the different between a true Arab and Arabized. Why don`t you try to find out from what caves your anciestry came from.

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I don´t understand what are you talking about. If you are speaking about arabized people like for example Syrians and Tunisians, there are many white and south European looking people in each of these countries. If you are speaking about original Arabs like Yemenis and Saudis, they tend to be dark, however there are also some lighter types. I saw Yemeni,who is practically white, certainly not darker than most South Italians or Greeks.Most Arabians are not white, but this one is. Ammal eeh? How do you define the word "caucasoid" and similarity between them and Arabs? Do you mean Europeans? Culturally, Arabians are very different from them, however they are on average still more anthropologically similar to Italians than to Senegalese or Nigerians.

Anyway, if your point is "I don´t care what you say", I don´t know why I am talking with you. I presumed that bedouin people are polite (even from Erithrea) are highly polite, but you act like offended child. 70% of your post are stupid insults. From "what caves my ancestry came from"? Probably from the same as yours. You are right I never been in any "Arab country", only in those arabised ones (Egypt and Tunis) I know the difference between arabised people and original Arabs, so what´s your point? And how can I be sure that you are really Erithrean bedouin living in Germany? I can say that I am Japanese Ainu living in Zimbabwe and there isn´t any way how to check it. I can easily speak arabic, but you didn´t show anything except bad English, sometimes mixed with some German words, so ghoor fee dahya wa seebny fee 7alee ya 7omaar.

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Originally posted by ali_egypt:
I can't even believe you said these people look egyptian...

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Originally posted by Ayazid:

I don´t understand what are you talking about. If you are speaking about arabized people like for example Syrians and Tunisians, there are many white and south European looking people in each of these countries. If you are speaking about original Arabs like Yemenis and Saudis, they tend to be dark, however there are also some lighter types. I saw Yemeni,who is practically white, certainly not darker than most South Italians or Greeks.Most Arabians are not white, but this one is. Ammal eeh? How do you define the word "caucasoid" and similarity between them and Arabs? Do you mean Europeans? Culturally, Arabians are very different from them, however they are on average still more anthropologically similar to Italians than to Senegalese or Nigerians.

Anyway, if your point is "I don´t care what you say", I don´t know why I am talking with you. I presumed that bedouin people are polite (even from Erithrea) are highly polite, but you act like offended child. 70% of your post are stupid insults. From "what caves my ancestry came from"? Probably from the same as yours. You are right I never been in any "Arab country", only in those arabised ones (Egypt and Tunis) I know the difference between arabised people and original Arabs, so what´s your point? And how can I be sure that you are really Erithrean bedouin living in Germany? I can say that I am Japanese Ainu living in Zimbabwe and there isn´t any way how to check it. I can easily speak arabic, but you didn´t show anything except bad English, sometimes mixed with some German words, so ghoor fee dahya wa seebny fee 7alee ya 7omaar.

[This message has been edited by Ayazid (edited 18 July 2005).]

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Originally posted by dahlak:
Well first, English is not my mother language, so i can not write perfect like you. The words you wrote are not German and i did not ask you to answer my Quote. You the one try to put Arabs as a white. You are not even arab and stop argue with me. German "lass mich in ruhe, ich habe kein lust mit Dir zureden."

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Originally posted by Ayazid:
You refuse to argue with everybody except Arabs? Well, you can leave this forum because 95% of people here are not Arabs. Anyway, I didn´t start this stupid quarrel, it was you. By the way, English is not my mother´s language and my english is far from perfect. And the words I wrote are Arabic, so I really doubt that you are Arab if you don´t understand it. Anyway, Allah yesam7ak.

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Originally posted by dahlak:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ayazid:
[b] You refuse to argue with everybody except Arabs? Well, you can leave this forum because 95% of people here are not Arabs. Anyway, I didn´t start this stupid quarrel, it was you. By the way, English is not my mother´s language and my english is far from perfect. And the words I wrote are Arabic, so I really doubt that you are Arab if you don´t understand it. Anyway, Allah yesam7ak.

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Originally posted by relaxx:
I think what Dahlak (he's a Rashida : pure Arab like Yemeni Arab) is saying is that original Arabs were quite dark, the ones from Yemen and some parts of East Africa. Whereas other Arabs from Morocco through Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and other parts of the Arab world are Arabized and not original Arabs, maybe that's why they look lighter. Dahlak, correct me if I'm wrong.
Relaxx

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Go the Netherlands or just head to Morocco and you will notice that Morrocans are Mullato-looking. But I still have a hard time believing that most Egyptians look like Turks or Iranians. Possibly the Greeks, Persians and Romans really influenced the nation so heavily. However most Iraqis, and southern Arabs are dark skinned. One thing I'm certain is in Saudi Arabia the whites Muslims are usually Syrians or Persians living in Jeddah while elsewhere they are short dark skinned people. You can consider most Arabs 'brown' like South Asians who also are mainly closer to Black than light brown.

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Originally posted by dahlak:

You are the one said i write in German, so end of history. actually i anderstand more than you do. Why should i leave this forum, every person have a right his or her own opinion. So don`t answer my Quote, i don`t want to talk to you. I will not answer your Quote.

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Enta begad insan mareed, roo7 lel tabeeb, a7san. I was ready to argue with you normal way, however I see that something broke in your head, but it´s your problem.

Persians and Turks, per phenotype look nothing like Egyptians. I have seen a few Eqyptians, yes, but it is not the norm.
I come back to the notion that a few Saudi princesses did marry Syrians because they had the money to become 'acceptable' and like many, prefer the Damascus type woman and her flowing beauty.

I am purposely stayinjg away from any volatile perception of colour or hue.

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Originally posted by yazid904:
rudhi.
mamnoonah.

Persians and Turks, per phenotype look nothing like Egyptians. I have seen a few Eqyptians, yes, but it is not the norm.
I come back to the notion that a few Saudi princesses did marry Syrians because they had the money to become 'acceptable' and like many, prefer the Damascus type woman and her flowing beauty.

I am purposely stayinjg away from any volatile perception of colour or hue.

hoda hafez

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That is what I have observed as well. Ah well I guess the wannabe-complex is present in Egypt too. However nowhere in my post am I address aethestics. If you think I am then I guess I can go on about this. For one I am not too surprised to users making fraudalent comments. Some are just sick of reality and prefer to live in a fantasy world.