It seems they just can't stand the truth that their ancestors were not true Egyptians but proselytizing Muslim conquerers who oppressed the real natives and even banned the native Egyptian language in favor of Arabic. Now they want to claim the ancient heritage whom their ancestors destroyed!

The subject of this forum is Ancient Egypt & Egyptology yet their only purpose seems to be spamming the board with their Afrangi bull-**** propoganda!!

First beware of such Arab-sounding screen names like Fareed, ali-Egypt, Ayazid, Abaza, Salama etc. These names could be clues to their Arab or otherwise Afrangi background.

Second, their modus operandi is the same. They will spam threads with selective pictures of "caucasian" Egyptians, criticize "Afrocentrics" while all the while never addressing the topic at hand and ignoring whatever evidence facts or sources cited.

They will dismiss any black people in Egypt as being either Nubian or peoples of Nubian descent while claiming themselves and other non-black Egyptians as being the "typical" Egyptian.

They are in denial of the truth and want to continue their ridiculous little fantasy that the modern Egyptian populace is the same as the ancient one.

The ultimate paradox is that they claim the ancient Egyptian heritage yet deny all or any connection to Africa whatsoever, even though Egypt is and always has been African and ancient Egypt was indeed black!!

It is sad to see this happen, but we must be careful about the source of all this Spamming that goes on nonstop on Egyptsearch.

Even when topics are not about race but about the culture of ancient Egypt, these Afrang-nuts will either be silent or make comments on their inaccurate views of race!

These so called Afrangi Egyptians are the very same people who built Modern Egypt, as we know the country today. LOL

Modern Cairo and Alexandria are prime examples of collective Afrangi contributions to Modern Egypt's beautiful grand architecture and pre-emminent place among the nations of the world, especially around the turn of the century (19th century).

The thing that NON-EGYPTAINS, don't understand is that all these AFRANGI EGYPTIANS are no longer living in Egypt, especially after 1960's and Nasser's Nationalization of the country. Everyone else, who had Egyptian citizenship and decided to stay, was not considered Afrangi, but a Native Egyptian, like the rest of the people.

ONLY A DEAD HEAD FOOL, like you would tell the White Americans, that have been in the United States for less than 100-400 years that they're not really Americans, but rather Europeans. Not only you'll catch hell, but most will spit in your [B]UGLY ASS FACE

I would love to see you go tell President George W. Bush, that he is not an American, because he might "Just Deport Your Ugly Butt Back to the JUNGLE, where your NEGRITO PEOPLE LIVE.

what's worse is that some of the people attacked and called stuff like "Afro***" and "Afrocentrist" are Egyptians themselves. i mean, is it honestly fair to debate with someone about their own nationality and culture? no, that's attacking the person's culture and heritage and it's wrong.

She was educated at an AFRO*** school, that sold her a FAKE BILL of GOODS and as a result, now she thinks that she is an Egyptian Queen that floated down the Nile River.

quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:

First beware of such Arab-sounding screen names like Fareed, ali-Egypt, Ayazid, Abaza, Salama etc. These names could be clues to their Arab or otherwise Afrangi background.

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you can find names like Ali, Mohammed, Ahmed in the Congo, Nigeria, east China, Indonesia. That does not mean you got a Arabic background just because of Muslim names! This has to be the dumbest thing i've read so far here. (This is the typical american/western way of thinking Muslims = Arab scum)

quote:

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Originally posted by walklikeanegyptian:
what does speaking Arabic have to do with being Egyptian? not all Egyptians speak Arabic, especially not those in America. have YOU ever been to Egypt? if you've been to Egypt you would be able to see the diversity among the people. you're obviously obsessed with proving a point and you've done a poor job proving it.

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the entire Media in Masr is in Arabic(Egyptians Arabic). 99,9% of the native Egyptians speak Arabic or at least know a lot of words in Arabic.

quote:

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Originally posted by ali_egypt:
...i think ''walklikeanegyptian'' is an american pretending to be egyptian!.....

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this isn't true but if it was, what exactly would i be trying to accomplish? i'm not that stupid, but i can't speak for you. all Upper Egyptians don't look like black people but many of them do. and besides your perception of black might be different from other peoples' so some people might consider you black.

quote:

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Originally posted by ali_egypt:
I'm from south egypt and yet i look nothing like black people.

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quote:

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Originally posted by ali_egypt:
I'm from south egypt and yet i look nothing like black people.

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That's because either you're Arab or an Arabized nutcase who denies his African roots.

Walk, don't mind these fools because they are ANGRY AFRANGI!!

Why are they so angry??!

This is why!

quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
That's because either you're Arab or an Arabized nutcase who denies his African roots.

Walk, don't mind these fools because they are ANGRY AFRANGI!!

Why are they so angry??!

This is why!

[images]

Because they claim great pharaohs like this as their ancestor while at the same time are adamant that they themselves are not black!

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I'm not a real arab i only speak arabic but i'm a proud egyptian from asouan. you afro freak.

quote:

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Originally posted by ali_egypt:

I'm not a real arab i only speak arabic but i'm a proud egyptian from asouan. you afro freak.

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LOL Then you are a Turk! Did you know that Turkish Janissaries were stationed at Aswan at one time by one of the Caliphs?!!

And I am not even black, I am Asian!!

Are you saying that the typical Aswanis look like you?!

quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
[b]LOL Then you are a Turk! Did you know that Turkish Janissaries were stationed at Aswan at one time by one of the Caliphs?!!

And I am not even black, I am Asian!!

Are you saying that the typical Aswanis look like you?!

[/B]

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quote:

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Originally posted by ali_egypt:
I'm not a turk you asswipe. And I don’t stick out in Asouan tons of people look like me or even lighter sometimes.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ali_egypt:
[b] I'm not a turk you asswipe. And I don’t stick out in Asouan tons of people look like me or even lighter sometimes.

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Exactly what part of Aswan are you from? cuz there are Nubians that live in Aswan also. What makes you think you are of pure Egyptian descent and not a foreigner?[/B][/QUOTE]

Simple because there is not a single Egyptian who is of a pure Ancient Egyptian blood or pure foreign blood.

Ausar is unfortunately a Copt Chrisian who knows a lot in history, but twist facts negatively when it comes to modern Muslim Egyptians.

quote:

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Originally posted by ali_egypt:

I'm not a real arab i only speak arabic but i'm a proud egyptian from asouan. you afro freak.

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it's spelled 'Aswan'. :

is that you? if so, I can understand why you don't call yourself black but to claim that black Egyptians are rare is quite inaccurate.

quote:

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Originally posted by walklikeanegyptian:
it's spelled 'Aswan'. :

is that you? if so, I can understand why you don't call yourself black but to claim that black Egyptians are rare is quite inaccurate.

face it, everyone living in Egypt is Egyptian, from the Paula Abdul looking ones (Arabs/Mediterranean) to the Whoopi Goldberg (black) looking ones, they're all Egyptian. but it is quite sad when people have to deny their own ethnic backgrounds just for pride.

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There are no Whoopi Goldberg ones the few blacks in Egypt look like horn Africans not like Afro-Americans/west Africans. And the lightest Egyptians look a lot whiter then Paula Abdul. And aswan is just the English version of Asouan.
Have a nice day fake Egyptian.

He spelled it right but I don't think he is an Aswani. He is probably Jizan under a different name. Both Jizan and him trace to the same ip adress. Usually the lightest people in Aswan are Kushaf,desendants of Arabs,or desendants of Jainassary soliders. Anybody from Aswan who says that black people in that part are rare are definately not from Aswan.

ali, which village are you from? There are no Beja in Aswan. Just the Ababda who don't really look black at all but Arabic. Same goes with the Gi'afra.

He is right about there being lighter people in Aswan but what he does not tell you is that tons of Arab tribes settled around Aswan during the time of the Fatimids into the Ottoman period.

Most people from Luxor to Aswan are dark brown in apperance. There are some exceptions depending which village you go but most are dark-brown. Many don't look like Western or Central Africans but by America's standards they would most definately be categorized by black people.

My family comes from Luxor-Aswan area. Your ip adress is alot like Jizan. Its identifcal

quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:

My family comes from Luxor-Aswan area. Your ip adress is alot like Jizan. Its identifcal

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Ausar
Although have great history background, your bitterness to Muslims are clear. You don't want them to have a share in their legitimate rights of Ancient Egypt.

You call me a jafra arab, like you calling me the above Ali.I am proud of my Arab side. But the truth is I can not claim to be pure Arab like the arabs in Arabia, because simply no one stayed pure in Egypt.

This is my case and the case of all upper Egyptian Muslims

You have in my case, my grandfather from "al jafra" left Egypt in 1856 to Omdurman-Sudan as a Judge, his mother was a Saidi and her mother was a Fellaha from Idfu.

Some from maternal side, some like me from paternal side are ethnically Arab.

quote:

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Originally posted by ali_egypt:
i don't know who that is. but my mother is from wadi es seboua area and father is from asouan.

[This message has been edited by ali_egypt (edited 14 July 2005).]

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Ali they are trying to portary as an imposter and therefore a liar. For example all aol people in the United States have the same OR VERY SIMILAIR IP ADDRESS.

ali, if you are from Aswan tell me about the Gi'afra and Ababda. Who are these people. Don't cheat by looking it up on the net. Tell me where they claim they desend from.

Amr, let ali defend himself. I think he is man enough[if he is not Jizan] to defend himself.

quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
That's because either you're Arab or an Arabized nutcase who denies his African roots.

Walk, don't mind these fools because they are ANGRY AFRANGI!!

Why are they so angry??!

This is why!

Because they claim great pharaohs like this as their ancestor while at the same time are adamant that they themselves are not black!

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Strange how the top picture looks so feminine. Looks just like Miss Nigeria:

Check out her eyes!

quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:

ali, if you are from Aswan tell me about the Gi'afra and Ababda. Who are these people. Don't cheat by looking it up on the net. Tell me where they claim they desend from.

Amr, let ali defend himself. I think he is man enough[if he is not Jizan] to defend himself.

[This message has been edited by ausar (edited 14 July 2005).]

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i know this one

quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:

ali, if you are from Aswan tell me about the Gi'afra and Ababda. Who are these people. Don't cheat by looking it up on the net. Tell me where they claim they desend from.

Amr, let ali defend himself. I think he is man enough[if he is not Jizan] to defend himself.

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Yes, that is correct.

Apparently you know quite a bit about Aswan.

I have been reading the comments on this forum for a few days, but this is my first post. I am an Egyptian that lives in America, but most of my family still resides in Alexandria, Egypt. I am proud to be both an Egyptian and an American citizen.

I agree with the fact that there are and were black Egyptians. I don't agree with the notion that Egypt was 100% black. I am not black and neither is anyone in my family. Neither are any of my Egyptian friends.

My family happens to be Muslim and we range in skin tone, from very dark to very light. The many Coptic Egyptians that I know also range in skin tone from very dark to very light.

I have seen several posts on this forum stating that Muslim Egyptians and/or Egyptians from Lower Egypt (northern Egypt) are not descendents of the true ancient Egyptians. No modern Egyptian is a pure descendent of ancient Egyptians (weather they are from the north or south), but we are all still Egyptian. We are a mixed people. There is no way of knowing every modern Egyptian's direct lineage to the ancient Egyptians. Skin tone and religion is not an indicator.

It has been stated that Muslim Egyptians are descendents of Arabs. That can't be proven. I may be a descendent of Arabs as well as a descendent of the ancient Egyptians. Who's to say that many of the ancient Egyptians did not convert to Islam? Would that make them Arabs? No. They are Muslim Egyptians.

Now my question is why do people like Djehuti, and many black-Americans that I have come across, want to deny me my ancestory? What is thier agenda? I know there were black Egyptians and I might be considered black acording to American standards (the one drop rule) but why are you so bothered by me being a descendent of the ancient Egyptians? Because I'm not black? That's ridiculous.

It seems to me like black-Americans want to claim that they are descendents of the ancient Egyptians and in order to do that, they must deny or somehow prove that us modern Egyptians are not descendents of ancient Egyptians. Will that make them feel better?

I don't care what they want to be believe about thier own ancestry, but don't deny me my own ancestry. Us modern Egyptians are still more connected to the ancient Egyptians than they are. Like it or not.

The whole debate is not what modern Egyptians are but what the ancient Egyptians were. Of course modern Egyptians are desendants but many don't hold the phenotype of the ancient Egyptians.

I certainly wish more Muslim Egyptians would say they are desendants of the ancient Egyptians instead of claiming Arabism. Everybody claims Arab in Egypt but when they leave Egypt they all claim they are desendants of the ancient Egyptians. The only people who have never claimed to be Arabs in Egypt are the fellahin and Coptic Christians.

Everybody is mixed in Egypt but the purest in Egypt are definately people living past Middle Egypt. Very few Arabs or foreigners settled here save for areas like Aswan. The Muslims and Christians look the same in these areas.

I often hear the Coptic Christians say that all Muslim Egyptians are Arabs. Of course this is not true,but there is some merit to this being that Arabs were brought in Egypt and settled in the Delta down to Middle Egypt to Arabize the people and to break their spirit. This is well documented by Arab historians. But the Coptic Christians are definately not as pure as they claim to be because most of them mixed with Greeks,Armenians,Syrians,and in the modern era with Western Europeans even. Many are still mixing with white Amricans,and so its hard for them to claim any type of purity.

quote:

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Originally posted by AMR1:
Ausar is unfortunately a Copt Chrisian who knows a lot in history, but twist facts negatively when it comes to modern Muslim Egyptians.

There is serious issues between Copts and Muslims in Egypt, unfortunately.

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AMR, I've noticed you keep saying that Ausar is a bitter Copt who has something against Mulsims..

But what makes you think he is even a Copt?! I don't recall Ausar ever professing he was.

In fact I recall him saying that both his parents are Muslims!!

And get over your mixed-up fantasies! There are pure non-Egyptians living on the coastal cities like Alexandria as there are pure Egyptians living in the rural villages of Luxor-Aswan. Not everybody is as "mixed" as you claim!!

Then again, you even say that all Ethiopians and Somalians are mixed.

You are just plain messed-up in the head!!

quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:
He is probably Jizan under a different name. Both Jizan and him trace to the same ip adress.

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LOL He probably is, or a relative of his!! I knew I smelled a rat!

The fact is Ausar, the guy claims to come from Aswan yet he can't even tell the difference between Nubians and full-blooded Egyptians!

I showed him pictures of Luxor Fellah who helped Howard Carter's excavation and he said they were either Nubians or Beja!!

quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:
True_Egyptian, the problem is aki is that there are northern Egyptians who would say that all dark skinned Saeedi are either desendants of Nubians or some other groups of people. This is not my stance at all. I agree with you that modern Egyptians are very mixed people and that the mixture contains many ethnic groups,and being mixed does not take away from being desendants of the ancient Egyptians.

The whole debate is not what modern Egyptians are but what the ancient Egyptians were. Of course modern Egyptians are desendants but many don't hold the phenotype of the ancient Egyptians.

I certainly wish more Muslim Egyptians would say they are desendants of the ancient Egyptians instead of claiming Arabism. Everybody claims Arab in Egypt but when they leave Egypt they all claim they are desendants of the ancient Egyptians. The only people who have never claimed to be Arabs in Egypt are the fellahin and Coptic Christians.

Everybody is mixed in Egypt but the purest in Egypt are definately people living past Middle Egypt. Very few Arabs or foreigners settled here save for areas like Aswan. The Muslims and Christians look the same in these areas.

I often hear the Coptic Christians say that all Muslim Egyptians are Arabs. Of course this is not true,but there is some merit to this being that Arabs were brought in Egypt and settled in the Delta down to Middle Egypt to Arabize the people and to break their spirit. This is well documented by Arab historians. But the Coptic Christians are definately not as pure as they claim to be because most of them mixed with Greeks,Armenians,Syrians,and in the modern era with Western Europeans even. Many are still mixing with white Amricans,and so its hard for them to claim any type of purity.

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Kapish!!

King Tut was partly Nubian.

The father and mother are brown in the picture, their son almost white, getting his genes from white ancestors.
http://www.kodakgallery.com/PhotoView.jsp?&collid=28775444305&photoid=18142128803

quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:
True_Egyptian, the problem is aki is that there are northern Egyptians who would say that all dark skinned Saeedi are either desendants of Nubians or some other groups of people. This is not my stance at all. I agree with you that modern Egyptians are very mixed people and that the mixture contains many ethnic groups,and being mixed does not take away from being desendants of the ancient Egyptians.

The whole debate is not what modern Egyptians are but what the ancient Egyptians were. Of course modern Egyptians are desendants but many don't hold the phenotype of the ancient Egyptians.

I certainly wish more Muslim Egyptians would say they are desendants of the ancient Egyptians instead of claiming Arabism. Everybody claims Arab in Egypt but when they leave Egypt they all claim they are desendants of the ancient Egyptians. The only people who have never claimed to be Arabs in Egypt are the fellahin and Coptic Christians.

Everybody is mixed in Egypt but the purest in Egypt are definately people living past Middle Egypt. Very few Arabs or foreigners settled here save for areas like Aswan. The Muslims and Christians look the same in these areas.

I often hear the Coptic Christians say that all Muslim Egyptians are Arabs. Of course this is not true,but there is some merit to this being that Arabs were brought in Egypt and settled in the Delta down to Middle Egypt to Arabize the people and to break their spirit. This is well documented by Arab historians. But the Coptic Christians are definately not as pure as they claim to be because most of them mixed with Greeks,Armenians,Syrians,and in the modern era with Western Europeans even. Many are still mixing with white Amricans,and so its hard for them to claim any type of purity.

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It is Normal Ausar to say you are partly Arab in the Middle East, because it is an Arab region.

Humans like to be proud of what they are.

And when you are in America who love ancient history to claim that part of your ancestry to walk with pride.

This is natutrally human. If people don't do that than they are God's prophets or something

quote:

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Originally posted by AMR1:
King Tut how he probably looked like this man. This are a picture of people from Isna. Their ancestors are partly Arabs, partly Nubians, partly Egyptians.

King Tut was partly Nubian.

The father and mother are brown in the picture, their son almost white, getting his genes from white ancestors.
http://www.kodakgallery.com/PhotoView.jsp?&collid=28775444305&photoid=18142128803

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mixed-up, what the heck does this Modern Egyptian family have to do with ancient Egyptians, let alone Tut's dynasty!!

AMR you are one confused individual.

Djehuti, even some rural villages in Luxor have absorbed some foreign admixture from some Arab tribes,but most of this is around the village of Gurna. The people who live here are Horobot and profess to be Arabs. I would say a bulk of the inhabitants of Cairo came from the rural Delta,and some are Saidi that came mostly from Middle Egypt[meaning from Minya,Asyut,and Sohag]. Most come from rural villages from the Delta. This is at least the lower-class balady districts.

I can personally say my ancestors are pure because fellahin don't mix with foreigners or tribes that claim to be Arabs. It only know has recently started happening in some villages of Luxor,but its not that widespread.

In villages like Berat both the Copts and Muslims look no different. The same goes for many areas of Aswan. Both are mostly dark brown in color. They don't look like Western/Central Africans but many look kind of like some African Americans and also some people from the Horn of Africa. Many have kinky hair and prognathism.

Whatever mixure my people have aquired came from pre-Islamic times,and not that much from post-pharaonic times.

Many people accuse Multisphinx here of being an imposter but I have personally seen his picture,and he has told me his father was a fellah from somewhere in Middle Egypt. His mother comes from a Delta village. I know another girl that don't post here but her mother is a fellah and her father a Palestinean. She agrees with me about the origins of the ancient Egyptians. She leans a little to the Arab side than myself but still have kinky type hair.

Many modern Egyptians are alittle biased and should not be used as references for the ethnic origins of the ancient Egyptians.

Most modern Bahary Egyptians living in the north don't know much about Saidis,and many Saidis don't know much about Baharys or care to know much about them. Thus many don't know that foreigners have came into Saeed from the Late Dyanstic Period into the Greco-Roman period to the Islamic era. Arabs,Greeks,Syrians,Jews and even Berbers have settled in parts of Middle Egypt.

Around Aswan there were Jewish mercenaries stationed there during the 27th dyansty. Later times there were Greek and Roman garrisons.During the Abbasid and Fatimid period Arab tribes were settled around Aswan. Later in Ottoman times Jainassary troops of Hungarian,Balkan and Turkish origin amalganated with the local population.

quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by AMR1:
[b]King Tut how he probably looked like this man. This are a picture of people from Isna. Their ancestors are partly Arabs, partly Nubians, partly Egyptians.

King Tut was partly Nubian.

The father and mother are brown in the picture, their son almost white, getting his genes from white ancestors.
http://www.kodakgallery.com/PhotoView.jsp?&collid=28775444305&photoid=18142128803

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mixed-up, what the heck does this Modern Egyptian family have to do with ancient Egyptians, let alone Tut's dynasty!!

AMR you are one confused individual.

[/B][/QUOTE]

King Tut was no way darker than this man. Plus Tiye a Nubian queen was probably his grand mother. If she was not his grandmother, he would have been very light.

quote:

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Originally posted by AMR1:

And when you are in America who love ancient history to claim that part of your ancestry to walk with pride.

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Look at the current Nubians, North Sudanese of today, after mixing with Egyptians in the last 3000 years, specially the egyptians of the mixed greek/roman arab and Turkish blood of the last 1000 years. I AM THE ONE IN THE CENTRE OF THE PICTURE.

Amr, most people in Esna are dark-brown color. Don't pick and chose people from Esna because I know personally what people from this governate look like. There are some light people but never white skinned people around this area.

Also I explained to you about the Tut-ankh-amun reconstruction that skin color cannot be determined from forensic scientist. Neither can other factors like nose shape or ear size. You don't seem to comprehend this. This is not bias but scientific facts.

Honestly, even when many Egyptian Muslims migrate to America they often take the Arab label with them. No Egyptian muslim[with the exception of the fellahin] ever cared about ancient Egypt.

I honestly believe that many Egyptians living in Middle Egypt had Arab origins. I know because the Mamelukes took many bedouin tribes from further north and places them around these areas. These bedouin tribes are well documented.

Tiye was not a Nubian. She was a commoner from Akhmin. Her father was Yuya and Thuya. There is some foreign ancestry from Yuya but Thuya was 100 percent Upper Egyptian.

quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
Except for one problem, how many modern day Americans can claim ancient America or have any native American ancestry??

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America is different from Egypt. People conquered America.

Egyptians before they were defeated by the first invaders 3500 years ago. Egypt was already a land where people migrated for slavation for a 1000 years and had mixed thoroughly with Egyptians.

In america 90% of the red indians were killed, but all america in a 1000 years will have a percentage tiny amount of red indian blood.

quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:

Tiye was not a Nubian. She was a commoner from Akhmin. Her father was Yuya and Thuya. There is some foreign ancestry from Yuya but Thuya was 100 percent Upper Egyptian.

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Ausar so you think Tut was darker than the man in the picture who is 1/3 nubain, 1/3 arab, 1/3 egyptian(1/2 delta, 1/2 upper egypt)?
http://www.kodakgallery.com/PhotoView.jsp?&collid=28775444305&photoid=18142128803

Northern Sudanese are not that mixed with Egyptians. Some of the Egyptian soliders stationed during the Anglo-Egyptian occupation married Sudanese but not as many as you exaggerate.

Most of the foreign admixture in northern Sudan comes from bedouin that wandered from Egypt or from the Red Sea area. Areas like Qift[Geb-ti] along the Red Sea probably abosrbed some of this admixture also.