posted
I think this board has declined because the race issue is worn out. People get weary of hearing the same old afrocentric propaganda over and over again. That AE is a caucasian North African culture has been established for decades. The attempt to graft Nubians onto mainstream AE society simply as no factual basis. In time the argument simply runs out of steam.
Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
no sorry hormheb not ur people. There not part of ur eurocentric made up caucasion race u tell OSAMA BINLADEN he caucasion LOL.
Posts: 188 | From: canton,ma,united states | Registered: May 2005
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posted
OBL knows he is caucasian, as does everyone else. there are only three races in the world Brandon, all of us are in one or the other, including you.
Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
hormheb that is how scientist theory. I could of swore that scientist said black africans walk over to africa and turn black and this was a theory a couple of years ago. But scientist are starting to say that all human beings came from on ethic not three and caucasion does not go with all scientist and u cant take people who have mixture of other things for causcasion arabs are not a pure race.
Posts: 188 | From: canton,ma,united states | Registered: May 2005
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posted
hormeheb its like saying brazillians are negros or causcasion. There neither mixture of both everbody know cuacasion cant make colored people so u know brazil are mixture of the two. Just like a pitball in a german shepard not a pure breed both dogs are a mixture of two things.
Posts: 188 | From: canton,ma,united states | Registered: May 2005
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posted
just like this hormheb is ur a pure blooded german u cant creat a color child it cant happen. IM black i can creat a lighter child with a dark black woman cause thats how black people are. So to say indians and packistan and middle easterns are caucasion is ludacris mixture people dont belong to neither.
Posts: 188 | From: canton,ma,united states | Registered: May 2005
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posted
But me personly science is a myth its not a fact just like they say we come out of monkeys. But me personly i dont believe most of it i think europeans came from europe and middle easterns and indains came from there part of the world maybe some have a little mixture of stuff.
Posts: 188 | From: canton,ma,united states | Registered: May 2005
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I decided to copy the whole statement and paste it. AAPA Statement on Biological Aspects of Race Published in the American Journal of Physical Anthropology, vol. 101, pp 569-570, 1996 PREAMBLE As scientists who study human evolution and variation, we believe that we have an obligation to share with other scientists and the general public our current understanding of the structure of human variation from a biological perspective. Popular conceptualizations of race are derived from 19th and early 20th century scientific formulations. These old racial categories were based on externally visible traits, primarily skin color, features of the face, and the shape and size of the head and body, and the underlying skeleton. They were often imbued with nonbiological attributes, based on social constructions of race. These categories of race are rooted in the scientific traditions of the 19th century, and in even earlier philosophical traditions which presumed that immutable visible traits can predict the measure of all other traits in an individual or a population. Such notions have often been used to support racist doctrines. Yet old racial concepts persist as social conventions that foster institutional discrimination. The expression of prejudice may or may not undermine material well-being, but it does involve the mistreatment of people and thus it often is psychologically distressing and socially damaging. Scientists should try to keep the results of their research from being used in a biased way that would serve discriminatory ends. POSITION We offer the following points as revisions of the 1964 UNESCO statement on race:
1. All humans living today belong to a single species, Homo sapiens, and share a common descent. Although there are differences of opinion regarding how and where different human groups diverged or fused to form new ones from a common ancestral group, all living populations in each of the earth's geographic areas have evolved from that ancestral group over the same amount of time. Much of the biological variation among populations involves modest degrees of variation in the frequency of shared traits. Human populations have at times been isolated, but have never genetically diverged enough to produce any biological barriers to mating between members of different populations.
2. Biological differences between human beings reflect both hereditary factors and the influence of natural and social environments. In most cases, these differences are due to the interaction of both. The degree to which environment or heredity affects any particular trait varies greatly.
3. There is great genetic diversity within all human populations. Pure races, in the sense of genetically homogenous populations, do not exist in the human species today, nor is there any evidence that they have ever existed in the past.
4. There are obvious physical differences between populations living in different geographic areas of the world. Some of these differences are strongly inherited and others, such as body size and shape, are strongly influenced by nutrition, way of life, and other aspects of the environment. Genetic differences between populations commonly consist of differences in the frequencies of all inherited traits, including those that are environmentally malleable.
5. For centuries, scholars have sought to comprehend patterns in nature by classifying living things. The only living species in the human family, Homo sapiens, has become a highly diversified global array of populations. The geographic pattern of genetic variation within this array is complex, and presents no major discontinuity. Humanity cannot be classified into discrete geographic categories with absolute boundaries. Furthermore, the complexities of human history make it difficult to determine the position of certain groups in classifications. Multiplying subcategories cannot correct the inadequacies of these classifications.
Generally, the traits used to characterize a population are either independently inherited or show only varying degrees of association with one another within each population. Therefore, the combination of these traits in an individual very commonly deviates from the average combination in the population. This fact renders untenable the idea of discrete races made up chiefly of typical representatives.
6. In humankind as well as in other animals, the genetic composition of each population is subject over time to the modifying influence of diverse factors. These include natural selection, promoting adaptation of the population to the environment; mutations, involving modifications in genetic material; admixture, leading to genetic exchange between local populations, and randomly changing frequencies of genetic characteristics from one generation to another. The human features which have universal biological value for the survival of the species are not known to occur more frequently in one population than in any other. Therefore it is meaningless from the biological point of view to attribute a general inferiority or superiority to this or to that race.
7. The human species has a past rich in migration, in territorial expansions, and in contractions. As a consequence, we are adapted to many of the earth's environments in general, but to none in particular. For many millennia, human progress in any field has been based on culture and not on genetic improvement.
Mating between members of different human groups tends to diminish differences between groups, and has played a very important role in human history. Wherever different human populations have come in contact, such matings have taken place. Obstacles to such interaction have been social and cultural, not biological. The global process of urbanization, coupled with intercontinental migrations, has the potential to reduce the differences among all human populations.
8. Partly as a result of gene flow, the hereditary characteristics of human populations are in a state of perpetual flux. Distinctive local populations are continually coming into and passing out of existence. Such populations do not correspond to breeds of domestic animals, which have been produced by artificial selection over many generations for specific human purposes.
9. The biological consequences of mating depend only on the individual genetic makeup of the couple, and not on their racial classifications. Therefore, no biological justification exists for restricting intermarriage between persons of different racial classifications.
10. There is no necessary concordance between biological characteristics and culturally defined groups. On every continent, there are diverse populations that differ in language, economy, and culture. There is no national, religious, linguistic or cultural group or economic class that constitutes a race. However, human beings who speak the same language and share the same culture frequently select each other as mates, with the result that there is often some degree of correspondence between the distribution of physical traits on the one hand and that of linguistic and cultural traits on the other. But there is no causal linkage between these physical and behavioral traits, and therefore it is not justifiable to attribute cultural characteristics to genetic inheritance.
11. Physical, cultural and social environments influence the behavioral differences among individuals in society. Although heredity influences the behavioral variability of individuals within a given population, it does not affect the ability of any such population to function in a given social setting. The genetic capacity for intellectual development is one of the biological traits of our species essential for its survival. This genetic capacity is known to differ among individuals. The peoples of the world today appear to possess equal biological potential for assimilating any human culture. Racist political doctrines find no foundation in scientific knowledge concerning modern or past human populations.
quote:
Posts: 188 | From: canton,ma,united states | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Horemheb: I think this board has declined because the race issue is worn out. People get weary of hearing the same old afrocentric propaganda over and over again. That AE is a caucasian North African culture has been established for decades.
And could you please expain to us the nature of "caucasian North African culture"??
Interestingly enough the so-called "afrocentrics" in this forum, as well as I, have documented a plethora of ancient Egyptian customs, traditions, and institutions that not only have parallels to the cultures of black Africans in "Sub-Sahara" but are also peculiar to these cultures!!! Heck, even the moderator Ausar (who by the way, is a resident expert on all customs AE even those that have survived in modern times among rural peoples) agrees on the black African nature of the pharaonic Egypt!
There are various 'mainstream' peoples like Michael Rice, Kent Weeks, Frank Yurco, and a host of others who agree!
So why, despite the overwhelming evidence do you deny the obvious?!!
quote:The attempt to graft Nubians onto mainstream AE society simply as no factual basis. In time the argument simply runs out of steam.
Who said Nubians were mainstream to Egyptian society?! We are just merely stating that the 'Nubians' were just as important to the history of the Nile Valley and the ancient world in general as the Egyptians!!
Why do you deny this?!
[This message has been edited by Djehuti (edited 27 July 2005).]
Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
However, I must agree this forum is drying up and something must be done to liven it up!
Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Why not post at my other forum. This forum has no security so anybody can just ruin a post. They cannot do this on the other forum. This is why I created a new format.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Djehuti: Interestingly enough the afrocentrics in this forum, as well as I, have documented a plethora of ancient Egyptian customs, traditions, and institutions that not only have parallels to the cultures of black Africans in "Sub-Sahara" but are also peculiar to these cultures!!!
Just a few questions:
Who specifically are these 'self-declared' Afrocentrics? Is it in reference to someone here? If so, is it based on something that person said, or some other basis? If its not in reference to someone here, then we need to know who these Afrocentrics are, and what is being supported or challenged, and why their mention is relevant to our discussions?
Why not post at my other forum. This forum has no security so anybody can just ruin a post. They cannot do this on the other forum. This is why I created a new format.
could the creator of this forum give you the power to ban the trolls?who could we write to so there could be more control.
quote:could the creator of this forum give you the power to ban the trolls?who could we write to so there could be more control.
No, because of the interface of the forum. The forum is set up only that the owners of the forum can ban people. Unless the owners decide to switch forums.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Could somebody pls explain to me, what on earth are trolls? In England they are dwawf like ugly plastic dolls, toys for children with multi coloured hair, considered by some to bring u good luck.... thx, and no rude answers pls! And BTW i love this forum, so i hope i am not one...
Posts: 461 | From: Kelantan, Malaysia | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:Originally posted by kenndo: Originally posted by ausar:
Why not post at my other forum. This forum has no security so anybody can just ruin a post. They cannot do this on the other forum. This is why I created a new format.
quote:could the creator of this forum give you the power to ban the trolls?who could we write to so there could be more control.
Kenndo, please join Ausar's new forum. Not even withstanding the troll issue, it's just a better forum.
[This message has been edited by rasol (edited 27 July 2005).]
posted
Before god and in his presence there is no race. I see people of many hues, cultures and ethnicities and the only thing I despise is evil. Whether a monkey is black, white, red, or green, its species is still monkey!! A black pig is no different from a white pig. They are both filty!!
If I were to think one was better, I have fallen into the trap of the kafr (unbeliever) and I have to kowtow to his beliefs. haha
posted
Djehuti, Glad to hear that you are making a distinction between Nubians and Egyptians. Yes, Nubians are important but they are not Egyptians. The blacks who live in upper Egypt are decendants of Nubians, not ancient Egyptians. If a peoson is obsessed with 'blackness' as many of you seem to be I would think that Nubia would be very attractive as a field of study. In terms of the scholars you mentioned, you can not cherry pick a point here and a point there and build a valid case. Most scholars do not agree that AE was a black African culture. That is not to say that there are not some afrocentric scholars out there who are more interested in black politics than they are serious scholarship. Much of the twisted logic we hear from these people goes like this, "since it could be true it is true." Radicalism is the wrong road in any field. It time to embrace a little realism and get out of the clouds.
Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Horemheb: Djehuti, Glad to hear that you are making a distinction between Nubians and Egyptians. Yes, Nubians are important but they are not Egyptians. The blacks who live in upper Egypt are decendants of Nubians, not ancient Egyptians...
First off professor, what makes you think that all those black peoples in Upper Egypt are of Nubian descent??! Many black Fellahin in Upper Egypt look exactly like the ancient Egyptians depicted on tomb paintings, painted miniatures, busts, and other portraiture and artworks; no doubt their ancestors! Second, you seem to forget that Nubians are a minority in Egypt, making up only a small fraction of the Egyptian populace. And most importantly there are actual ethnic differences between Fellahin and true Nubians. For example, Nubians speak Nubian dialects, while Fellahin speak either Coptic or their own dialect of Arabic. Nubians practice other traditions that are distinctly Nubian. While there are differences between the Fellahin and Nubians, the similarities are due to the common African origin that they both share, one that has existed since predynastic times.
quote:...In terms of the scholars you mentioned, you can not cherry pick a point here and a point there and build a valid case. Most scholars do not agree that AE was a black African culture. That is not to say that there are not some afrocentric scholars out there who are more interested in black politics than they are serious scholarship. Much of the twisted logic we hear from these people goes like this, "since it could be true it is true." Radicalism is the wrong road in any field. It time to embrace a little realism and get out of the clouds.
Professor, those scholars I picked are just a "cherry" on top of a whole sundae. There are many others that agree on the black African nature and origin of the Egyptian people and that number is growing the more we learn about Egyptian culture. You still have not answered my question on the nature of this North African "caucasian" culture you speak of, let alone given any examples of such a culture. So I will take the initiative and again show you what I mean.
divine-kingship-- the belief that the king or ruler is a god manifested in human form and has powers as such.
ancestor veneration-- belief in paying respect and honoring the deceased.
high status of women-- women are considered essentially equal to men and carry certain rights and privileges.
circumsition rites-- ritual in which circumsition is a rite of passage for males to enter adulthood.
the practice of 'magic' and execration rituals--(voodoo)!
zar rites-- ritual, usually presided by women, in which they commune with spirits through possession.
belief in symbols found in colors, numbers, and totems (animal symbols).
a spiritual anatomy belief that a single idividual possesses multiple spirits or spirit aspects.
These are just a handful of traditional beliefs and customs practiced by the ancient Egyptians and all of them are found to exist in some form among the cultures of black Africans. However, non are found among "caucasian" peoples either in North Africa today or in the Near-East.
It's not a matter of "it could be" it's a matter of just what is!
Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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What's so funny about this is that there are actually Nubians like Mohammed Mounir that is lighter than the average Luxor-Aswani Egyptian. The Ababada group in Aswan that are Arabized Beja look straight up like Arabs. As do the Gi'afra people in Aswan. The Gi'afra are said by many to be Arabized Nubians. However, they are much more Arab looking than the average Luxor-Aswani Egyptian fellahin.
Most rural Luxor Egyptians never seen or heard of a Nubian in their entire life. Most living on the East Bank both Christian and Muslim are typically dark brown in apperance. Except for some villages in Gurna they are mixed with Arab Horobot tribes.
The only area where Nubians live in large amounts in Upper Egypt is within the village of Kom Ombo. Most Nubians within this village only intermarry with other Nubians and don't with Saidi people. Infact, Saidi people come to Nubian land in Lower Nubia and work as sharecroppers.
According to Michael Hoffman in his book Egypt Before the Pharaohs there was much little ethnic difference between Lower Nubians and Egyptians that lived up to the first cataract. if you examine A-group Nubian and Naqada cultures in southern Upper Egypt the pottery styles and even burial styles are quite similar. There are still some contrversey over the Qustal incense burner and wheather this was the first pharaonic dyansty. We will not know the answer to that question because most of the area of archaeological interest and tomb 33 was flooded out.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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