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Originally posted by Horemheb:
well, the evidence of that gene is way over blown by the radical afrocentrics on this board and others. Classical scholars dispute the idea that Greece has any substantial black racial componet or cultural componet. You can e-mail any of those scholars and get answers to your questions, most of them will reply to you.
Now, I don't think anyone has ever said there was no Nubian influence on Egypt. In the words of black American scholar Clarence walker when talking about the afrocentrics, "Their ideas on Egypt are absurd."

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Certainly this board overexaggerates the Hg evidence. However, it does mean that there is some gene flow. And if we take into account the Levant then were are guaranteed to have a Black presence in Greece to some extent. I never said that Greeks were 10-25% Black - that is what Palestenians and moden day Lower Egyptians are. However, I would argue that they are likely to be somewhere between 3 to 6 % on the average. And add in sickle cell anemia and common sense then you come to this conclusion quite readily.

I am not sure what the issue with that is at all.

I disagree with you on most if not all of your positions on Ancient Egypt but if we are talking about the modern dilemma of some Blacks in America then I must agree that the anti-Western, anti-White, anti-Establishment and fear of oppression is a strong disabler for upward movement of American Blacks than the real presence of discrimination (which is a very real issue but not as much of a disabler as a culture of hate). I strongly believe this is why Immigrant African Blacks are doing better in Education and Business than Black Americans.

Here is a real time example of the above stated example of Anti-American attitudes by some African Americans:

New Orleans - Looters

Looters filled industrial-sized garbage cans with clothing and jewelry and floated them down the street on bits of plywood and insulation as National Guard lumbered by.

Some in the crowd splashed into the waist-deep water like giddy children at the beach.

Mike Franklin stood on the trolley tracks and watched the spectacle unfold.

“To be honest with you, people who are oppressed all their lives, man, it’s an opportunity to get back at society,” he said.

GET BACK AT SOCIETY? What kind of backward thinking nonsense is that? This is suppose to be a tragedy where Americans become united and help each other out but rather those with a mental disorder would rather take advantage and rob from their neighbor.

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Originally posted by Horemheb:
Hybrido, Capitalism has produced more wealth for more people than any other economic system in history. The problem is that in the third world the elites rat hole all the money. It's like pouring cash into a sink hole. In Africa, for example, they need to build roads, bridges, schools etc. Put people to work...let capitalism have a chance to kick start those countries. I guarentee you margaret Thatcher would have Egypt humming in no time.
1. If the people have no jobs they have no money
2. If they have no money they can buy no products
3. If they can't buy the products the business can't make it and you have poverty.

These contries need to get cash into circulation and into the hands of the people. Look at mexico, they do nothing while millions run to America to find a job. They have all of that oil revenue...they COULD put that population to work but they don't.

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But it didn't produce wealth for most humans Horemheb, except for a small elite class (see Microsoft).

The problem is that capitalism never had any respect for the real workers. Farmers are the most hard working people.

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Originally posted by Horemheb:
orision...e-mail a few classical scholars with your questions, you may be more satisfied with their answers than mine, and rightfully so.

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The email threads I have had with Scholars have been quite useful and very interesting. These guys love to talk about Egypt. They are not as hostile to a Black Egypt as you may think. They are less political in a private conversation.

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Originally posted by Mazigh:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by dahlak:
[b] As far as i know Hebrew is not a race, i don`t understand when they put it as a race. How do you know this people did not change the meaning of Hebrew, they try so hard to make them selves so important by changing history. The Greeks call them selves southners in German Suedlaendisch (braun gebranntes), brown. The acient who you call hebrew were not white people, look the falasha and the lehmba, do they look like to you white?

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therefor, it is said that not all the jews are hebrews (if i spelled this name well).

as far as i know the disdain of the hebrews towards the black people is impressed in their belief, and thus, it is unlikely that they were able to change of it. if i'm not mistaken, the hebrews claimed to be the descendents of sam (therefor they are known as semetic people), that "sam" is the son of noah like it is known,and it means if i'm not mistaken, super like as in arabic. whereas the deschendents of ham are supposed to be "cursed". and that ham was supposed to be black (if i'm not mistaken, see this: http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mdrunknoah2.html )

as far as the name wich was used by the greeks, and the germans to refer to themselves is concerned i'm not faimiliar with it. however, i can hardly believe it. if the germans call themselves "brown", who are the white peoples then ?!

on other manner, it is to prove that the greeks howed spontaneous themselves as non-blaks (black-haired white people if i'm not mistaken), that is al least to infer from the image that they gave to their origianl gods (like as "zeus") because the people with humanizing their gods, they depicted their gods according to their shape. like as it is unlikely a "black people" would depict their god as "white god" .

[This message has been edited by Mazigh (edited 30 August 2005).][/B][/QUOTE]

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Originally posted by Horemheb:
You better, and think about the foot you have inserted in your mouth.

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1. Money in the hands of the people (circulation)
2. Infastructure...roads etc
3. Schools

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Originally posted by Horemheb:
They are not as hostile to a black influence in AE but they do not share the views generally expressed on this board.

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No they are more like Amr1 in that they believe that Egypt was home to Blacks but that they were a minority group similar to the way things are here in the US. Frankly they contradict themselves with the evidence they try to present to support this. Besides, trying to nail down the definition of Black makes the discussion quite difficult. Basically we get an answer of - not that many Whites, not that many Blacks, lots of in between.

Frankly the evidence of language is less muddled and we know that the Egyptians spoke Afra and scholars generally agree that this language phylum can be traced back to Ethiopia (Cushitic).

Cushites are Black by any social definition I have seen (regardless of their Non-Negroid status).

If they don't care about the majority, i don't think anyone will care.

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Originally posted by osirion:
What makes you so sure that Greeks are not part Black? Even if I agreed with your position that Caucasian people founded Egyptian civilization, certainly Blacks from Nubia were in Egypt and the Greeks certainly interacted, colonized and imported large number of Egyptians into their society which would have included Nubians. Consequently we would have Nubian gene flow into Greece. And that is assuming Blacks were not the original Ancient Egyptians which I think is a very bad assumption and in fact is completely against known facts. Then lets not forget the 25th Dynasty and the rule of Ethiopia from Egypt all the way to India. Black gene flow into Greece is a guaranteed fact and is evidenced with E3b no matter what your position is.

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Um, the appearance of E3b in Greece predates all of that history by thousands of years.