example:
http://www.ardia.net/dan/photos/egypt-as-five%20girls.jpg
and
http://mapage.noos.fr/tomfox/piclib/egypt/image/000013_3.jpg

I never post over here, although I read sometimes. I don't know *anything* about scientific bases for racial classification. But I do know something about the *legal* classification of race in the U.S.

The US Census uses 5 major racial classifications, and no, none of these permits for classification of all Egyptians under one race category.

But in the US, the legal status of race is *generally* a self-identification issue. (I say *generally* because it doesn't always work like it is supposed to).

I worked in law enforcement for several years, and when bringing someone in for an arrest, we asked the defendant what race he was. And honestly there were some people I just knew were white (in my eyes) but they said they were black. I marked them down as black. Sometimes a police officer would assume someone was black, and a warrant would go out for a black person, but the person actually would be Native American. In those cases, official documents would reflect both classifications. So the system certainly isn't perfect. And I am sure people get misclassified all the time. I'm just trying to say there is no strict law that insists all Egyptians are white.

If a person does not, cannot, or refuses to identify himself or herself as a particular race, *then* a governmental entity such as a police department would make its best educated guess as to what race the person is.

My Egyptian fiance looks white by American standards, and all his documentation says he's white. His Egyptian colleague, on the other hand, looks black by American standards, and all of his documentation says he's black. Both seem perfectly happy with these classifications, from what I can see.

quote:

---

Originally posted by walklikeanegyptian:
Egyptians in America are legally considered caucasian/white by the government. i found pics today of Egyptians who are clearly not caucasian and the idea that they would be over here is revolting.

example:
http://www.ardia.net/dan/photos/egypt-as-five%20girls.jpg
and
http://mapage.noos.fr/tomfox/piclib/egypt/image/000013_3.jpg

[This message has been edited by walklikeanegyptian (edited 07 September 2005).]

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You should just be happy that everyone is free to classify himself/herself as they see fit or best describes them.

quote:

---

Originally posted by walklikeanegyptian:
Egyptians in America are legally considered caucasian/white by the government. i found pics today of Egyptians who are clearly not caucasian and the idea that they would be over here is revolting.

example:
http://www.ardia.net/dan/photos/egypt-as-five%20girls.jpg
and
http://mapage.noos.fr/tomfox/piclib/egypt/image/000013_3.jpg

[This message has been edited by walklikeanegyptian (edited 07 September 2005).]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Snoozin:

My Egyptian fiance looks white by American standards, and all his documentation says he's white. His Egyptian colleague, on the other hand, looks black by American standards, and all of his documentation says he's black. Both seem perfectly happy with these classifications, from what I can see.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Giza-Rider:
This should not bother you or anyone else, because the vast majority of Egyptians DO NOT CONSIDER THEMSELVES BLACK or even partially black. American classification systems are not used in Egypt and most of the people do not care about them, except if they happen to live abroad.

You should just be happy that everyone is free to classify himself/herself as they see fit or best describes them.

---

some of these Egyptians you would speak of, who don't consider themselves black, would most likely be looked at as black in America, and it's a fact. even if someone doesn't consider themself black but blackness shows, they're considered black.

quote:

---

My Egyptian fiance looks white by American standards, and all his documentation says he's white. His Egyptian colleague, on the other hand, looks black by American standards, and all of his documentation says he's black. Both seem perfectly happy with these classifications, from what I can see.

---

I wonder if he looks white by am. standards or by white american standards. I mean, we might say he's black (or white) just because we know he's egyptian. But if we looked at him without knowing where he came from, we might have another opinion. No real way to answer this question (outside of a photo). Just wondering...

quote:

---

Originally posted by walklikeanegyptian:
some of these Egyptians you would speak of, who don't consider themselves black, would most likely be looked at as black in America, and it's a fact. even if someone doesn't consider themself black but blackness shows, they're considered black.

---

When we went to Egypt and he got a tan, however, he looked a lot more like everyone else walking around.

But here in DC he is really pale. And his features don't look particularly *Egyptian* or *Arab* to me. His hair is like a sub-saharan African's, though. He claims he's a mix of everything and I like to think that too.

quote:

---

Originally posted by TooInvolved:
I wonder if he looks white by am. standards or by white american standards. I mean, we might say he's black (or white) just because we know he's egyptian. But if we looked at him without knowing where he came from, we might have another opinion. No real way to answer this question (outside of a photo). Just wondering...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by walklikeanegyptian:
some of these Egyptians you would speak of, who don't consider themselves black, would most likely be looked at as black in America, and it's a fact. even if someone doesn't consider themself black but blackness shows, they're considered black.

---

I do find this interesting, with respect to my fiance's friend (who is upper Egyptian, and looks black). When he's not socializing with Egyptian immigrants, he generally socializes with black Americans. He dates black women exclusively.

So I just wondered, did he seek out black Americans as friends? Did they seek him out? Was he snubbed by white Americans? Does he not care for white Americans?

I am just curious as to how race or looks have influenced social relationships for immigrants here in the US. ??

quote:

---

Originally posted by walklikeanegyptian:
people know i am black even without knowing i am Egyptian. i am accepted as no different than deep rooted Black Americans.

---

Are you an immigrant, or were you born here? I know that it's a lot tougher for my fiance's colleague to be considered black here, with the inevitable prejudice that comes along with being black. I don't know if he has suffered discrimination or not. I'm certainly not close enough to ask him those types of personal questions.

He's got a very thick Egyptian accent, so that usually throws people off when they meet him (he looks a lot like Mike Tyson).

quote:

---

Originally posted by Snoozin:
Are you an immigrant, or were you born here? I know that it's a lot tougher for my fiance's colleague to be considered black here, with the inevitable prejudice that comes along with being black. I don't know if he has suffered discrimination or not. I'm certainly not close enough to ask him those types of personal questions.

He's got a very thick Egyptian accent, so that usually throws people off when they meet him (he looks a lot like Mike Tyson).

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by walklikeanegyptian:

i was born here and so were my parents. i don't have an Egyptian accent though and i talk like most of the female rappers you hear on the radio. and i look like Tyra Banks, which is sort of a throw off too. but to answer the prejudice question, white people don't look at me and go "oh she's Egyptian, we'll leave her alone." sometimes i get prejudice and different treatment from those who might or might not know my heritage. i am black enough to meet their idea of who deserves prejudice.

---

I'm sorry. Nobody deserves prejudice. Racism is probably the one thing I hate most in this world, even though I know I am sometimes guilty of stereotyping people myself.

Oh, and Tyra Banks is gorgeous. I would kill to look like her!

I *first* thought you were a man.
I *secondly* thought you were an immigrant.
I *thirdly* thought you were a middle-aged adult.

Are you telling me you are in middle or high school? *Grade?*

??

quote:

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Originally posted by walklikeanegyptian:
i am actually regarded as the most african american girl in our grade. of all the other black girls i go to school with, i face the most prejudice. if you asked any random person "name a black girl in our grade" i would be mentioned immediately.

someone said i have Tyra's cat eyes. doesn't she have cat like features?

---

lol a man? i am not offended but please explain. i mentioned my name several times (Makayla). can you tell me why you put those labels on me?

i am not offended though

quote:

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Originally posted by walklikeanegyptian:
i am in 8th grade, and i'm 13 and definitely a girl. surprised?

lol a man? i am not offended but please explain. i mentioned my name several times (Makayla). can you tell me why you put those labels on me?

i am not offended though

[This message has been edited by walklikeanegyptian (edited 09 September 2005).]

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LOL!!!! 8th grade. Wow. Actually, I don't visit this particular forum on ES very much, so while I've seen your posting name, I never really saw you mention your first name.

I'm a 38-year-old woman, just for reference. I probably assumed you were a man because most people in this particular forum seem to be men. Although I'm fairly often wrong about that one.

I assumed you were *much* older than you apparently are because your writing skills are excellent. When you said *grade* I figured you must be in high school, and a senior at that...see, I keep getting it wrong.

So I want to compliment you on your writing and your insight. They belie your age. I was an English major in college, and now am an attorney. I pay particular attention to how people write. I see so many college-educated people write like they haven't finished grade school, so I am always happy to see someone write in an educated manner. Like you. And here you are, 13 years old. LOL!!!! You'll take over the world by the time you are 22.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Snoozin:
LOL!!!! 8th grade. Wow. Actually, I don't visit this particular forum on ES very much, so while I've seen your posting name, I never really saw you mention your first name.

I'm a 38-year-old woman, just for reference. I probably assumed you were a man because most people in this particular forum seem to be men. Although I'm fairly often wrong about that one.

I assumed you were *much* older than you apparently are because your writing skills are excellent. When you said *grade* I figured you must be in high school, and a senior at that...see, I keep getting it wrong.

So I want to compliment you on your writing and your insight. They belie your age. I was an English major in college, and now am an attorney. I pay particular attention to how people write. I see so many college-educated people write like they haven't finished grade school, so I am always happy to see someone write in an educated manner. Like you. And here you are, 13 years old. LOL!!!! You'll take over the world by the time you are 22.

---

lol on my friend's board, i talk more like this

"hey u guyz, whats been happenin'? u wouldnt believe what happened 2 me 2day, would u?"

but here, i talk more like this because i am talking about something that i respect (my heritage, and Egypt).

quote:

---

Originally posted by walklikeanegyptian:

lol on my friend's board, i talk more like this

"hey u guyz, whats been happenin'? u wouldnt believe what happened 2 me 2day, would u?"

but here, i talk more like this because i am talking about something that i respect (my heritage, and Egypt).

btw i have been finding pictures of Egyptians from the Upper Egypt area that look like Ethiopians and Somalians. i have an Ethiopian American friend who looks a lot like me.

---

Actually, my personal opinion is that it's best to do exactly what you describe. There are different styles of language for different types of situations.

I speak one way with my friends, another with my family, and another at work. Some formal, some casual, some slang.

There's an attorney at work whose parents are Ethiopian, and yes, she looks a bit like Tyra Banks.

Have you ever been to Egypt? You probably have, but I've gotten in enough trouble assuming things about you. I've been all over this world, and nothing is as beautiful to me as Egypt. It's so easy to understand how Egypt is the location of our first civilizations. You have so much to respect and be proud of.

quote:

---

Originally posted by walklikeanegyptian:
thanks btw

---

Of course.

quote:

---

Originally posted by walklikeanegyptian:
Egyptians in America are legally considered caucasian/white by the government. i found pics today of Egyptians who are clearly not caucasian and the idea that they would be over here is revolting.

example:
http://www.ardia.net/dan/photos/egypt-as-five%20girls.jpg
and
http://mapage.noos.fr/tomfox/piclib/egypt/image/000013_3.jpg

[This message has been edited by walklikeanegyptian (edited 07 September 2005).]

---

Actually, makayla if you were too look at it like this. Here in the States, you will find the colored egyptians in the ghettoes of nyc and the elite class in the suburbs of manhattan. So depending on where u see egyptians here they will look differant. I personally think egyptians should have the choice of puttin thier racial background. Egypt is no differant from Brazil or Cuba in its diversity, infact if you ask many egyptians they get mistaken for latino,black, domincian, cuban, mexican, etc... and all these ppl are colored.

Gaza rider u speak out of ignorance. How do u know what most egyptians think they are. I know egyptians from alexandria here that live in the states that look white and feel closer to their african side(he is like 1/15 black).

Snoozin if your husband has subsaharan african hair he most likly would be mixed as he says. And if he really has that type of hair as u say i think he would prolly be looked as an african american by most black ppl here, look at mariah carey. Most eygptians look like many of the famous mullatoes in the US for expample, Rupee, Sean Pual, Tony Parker, Derak Jetar, Rick Fox, Mariah, etc... By the way what are u racially?

Another main reason that egyptian was given that classification was that during time of discrimantion many of the eygtians whom came abroad from the country where white themselves and fit in with the white population, but the thing is these ppl that arrived at that time were from the rich elite class of egypt. That population in egypt is a really small percentage of the total population. Like in Brazil europeans whom came into Brazil and changed and diversified the population, is the same in egypt where turks, armenians, and syrians came into the delta and diverisified the country.

I hope this helps.

quote:

---

Originally posted by multisphinx:
Snoozin if your husband has subsaharan african hair he most likly would be mixed as he says. And if he really has that type of hair as u say i think he would prolly be looked as an african american by most black ppl here, look at mariah carey. By the way what are u racially?

---

Hi, multisphinx. I wish I could post a picture of him, but I need to respect his privacy. Although I find it fascinating how people perceive him.

I am white, for what it's worth. And I wonder if I subconsciously see the *white* of his features because that's what I'm used to. Because you are right. A good friend of mine is black and she said there's no way he'd pass for white. But my white friends think of him as white. *And* people of latino decent here always think he's hispanic and immediately start speaking to him in Spanish. So I really couldn't tell you.

Doesn't matter to me. He's the coolest guy in the world and not a racist bone in his body.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Snoozin:
Hi, multisphinx. I wish I could post a picture of him, but I need to respect his privacy. Although I find it fascinating how people perceive him.

I am white, for what it's worth. And I wonder if I subconsciously see the *white* of his features because that's what I'm used to. Because you are right. A good friend of mine is black and she said there's no way he'd pass for white. But my white friends think of him as white. *And* people of latino decent here always think he's hispanic and immediately start speaking to him in Spanish. So I really couldn't tell you.

Doesn't matter to me. He's the coolest guy in the world and not a racist bone in his body.

---

That nice to hear and i am happy for your guys joy. Well from what u heard is correct, uaully a person who is mixed really does not look like anythin and is often mixtaken for a lot, as i mentiond the famous mullatoes in the US today, rupee,S P, mariah, rick fox, derak jetar, all could be mistaken to be more then one race combined really to put. Ppl can look at them to be part of any race thats what speacial bout being mixed you fit in with every race, everyone sees you the same(well that goes with some, it depends how u recieve your genes from your parents and which is dominent). But when it comes to the racial thing here in the states, i dont believe its fair for any person who is mixed to put themthelves with any main race here.
Again Egyptians are diverse as i said, some are mixed(mullatoes)""which is largest part of the population of egypt"", brown, black, white, meddeteranian, etc... So really how the peroson sees themselves socially is how they should be classified.

I know this personally because my family are Saidis. Being that I grew up mostly in the states I don't have a Saidi accent.

As far as modern Egyptians, they are pretty diverse ,to be honest, they range from a off-white color[mostly around Alexandria] to light-brown to medium to dark brown. Most people in Upper Egypt tend to be a medium to dark brown. There are some exceptions in Middle Egyptian areas like Minya or Asyut. Many, people from Upper Egypt would be considered ''black'' by America's standards.

Most Egyptians will say they are qahmy[wheat colored] but note this is sometimes even used by darker people as a euphanism. The general color terms that Egyptians use like Abydan[white],amhii[tanned] and Asmar/samara[dark brown] remind me alot like the Latin American/Carribean countries like Puerto Rico and Dominican Republic.

One thing people should note is that modern Northern Egyptians are heavily influenced by Eur-asian migrants that came into Egypt during both Late Pharaonic period and post-pharaonic period.

[This message has been edited by ausar (edited 10 September 2005).]

quote:

---

Originally posted by multisphinx:
Actually, makayla if you were too look at it like this. Here in the States, you will find the colored egyptians in the ghettoes of nyc and the elite class in the suburbs of manhattan. So depending on where u see egyptians here they will look differant. I personally think egyptians should have the choice of puttin thier racial background. Egypt is no differant from Brazil or Cuba in its diversity, infact if you ask many egyptians they get mistaken for latino,black, domincian, cuban, mexican, etc... and all these ppl are colored.

Gaza rider u speak out of ignorance. How do u know what most egyptians think they are. I know egyptians from alexandria here that live in the states that look white and feel closer to their african side(he is like 1/15 black).

Snoozin if your husband has subsaharan african hair he most likly would be mixed as he says. And if he really has that type of hair as u say i think he would prolly be looked as an african american by most black ppl here, look at mariah carey. Most eygptians look like many of the famous mullatoes in the US for expample, Rupee, Sean Pual, Tony Parker, Derak Jetar, Rick Fox, Mariah, etc... By the way what are u racially?

Another main reason that egyptian was given that classification was that during time of discrimantion many of the eygtians whom came abroad from the country where white themselves and fit in with the white population, but the thing is these ppl that arrived at that time were from the rich elite class of egypt. That population in egypt is a really small percentage of the total population. Like in Brazil europeans whom came into Brazil and changed and diversified the population, is the same in egypt where turks, armenians, and syrians came into the delta and diverisified the country.

I hope this helps.

[This message has been edited by multisphinx (edited 09 September 2005).]

---

it's weird you'd mention Mariah Carey because today i met someone who went to Egypt and said "many people in Egypt look like light skinned African Americans, like Mariah Carey". how much of Egypt's population does everything south of Luxor account for?

Thanks for the information. This is an area I know *very* little about.

What about upper Egyptians (saidis?) who live in Cairo? My fiance works with several people he has identified to me as upper Egyptians, but they all live in Cairo. Is this social isolation present there, too? Or are you talking about people born and raised in Upper Egypt?

Just curious.....I could probably live the rest of my life in Egypt and never really *get it.*

quote:

---

Originally posted by ausar:
Snoozin,you mentioned earlier about your husband's college that did not hang many Egyptian immigrants. It could be because most of the immigrants are not Sa3eedi. Sa3eedi,fellahin,and baladi people in Egypt are like a sub-culture amongst themselves that only really associate in their own little circle. The fact that he has a thick accent might be his Sa3eedi accent.Saidis are people from Upper Egypt.

I know this personally because my family are Saidis. Being that I grew up mostly in the states I don't have a Saidi accent.

As far as modern Egyptians, they are pretty diverse ,to be honest, they range from a off-white color[mostly around Alexandria] to light-brown to medium to dark brown. Most people in Upper Egypt tend to be a medium to dark brown. There are some exceptions in Middle Egyptian areas like Minya or Asyut. Many, people from Upper Egypt would be considered ''black'' by America's standards.

Most Egyptians will say they are qahmy[wheat colored] but note this is sometimes even used by darker people as a euphanism. The general color terms that Egyptians use like Abydan[white],amhii[tanned] and Asmar/samara[dark brown] remind me alot like the Latin American/Carribean countries like Puerto Rico and Dominican Republic.

One thing people should note is that modern Northern Egyptians are heavily influenced by Eur-asian migrants that came into Egypt during both Late Pharaonic period and post-pharaonic period.

[This message has been edited by ausar (edited 10 September 2005).]

[This message has been edited by ausar (edited 10 September 2005).]

---

quote:

---

Ausar,

Thanks for the information. This is an area I know *very* little about.

What about upper Egyptians (saidis?) who live in Cairo? My fiance works with several people he has identified to me as upper Egyptians, but they all live in Cairo. Is this social isolation present there, too? Or are you talking about people born and raised in Upper Egypt?

Just curious.....I could probably live the rest of my life in Egypt and never really *get it.* ]http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/smile.gif

---

No, Saeedis in Cairo really don't isolate themselves,but are often the target of many jokes. Lots of people in Cairo have Upper Egyptian origins[mostly coming from Middle Egyptian areas like Asyut,Sohag,and Minya] You see even within Saeed there is really a division meaning that Middle Egypt is called almost Saeed;while Sohag south is called 'deep Said''

Most Saidis are very stubborn people retaining their own Saidi dialect and culture. Of course they know how to speak Cairene Arabic but still retain their Saidi accent and Saidi Arabic language. You know Cairenes have often told me that cannot understand Saidi when speaking.

Most people who move into Cairo from the countryside[the rural Delta and rural Saeed] are known as baladi[country,village in Arabic],and I would say that many Saidis living in Cairo are probably more accustomed to life in Cairo thus they are more baladi. However, many still retain alot of their village background and their accent.

People from the Delta and Upper Egypt have been moving into sections of Cairo since the 60's. The rural Egyptians that move to Cairo tend to bring their village existence with them and often you will see them in baladi quarters as opposed to more upscale Egyptian areas like Maadi,Zamalek,or Dokki. Not to say there are not rich Saeedi but most are not.

However, more elite Egyptians tend to isolate themselves from Saidi and Baladi Egyptians considering them low-class. I would say that the average Cairene would most likely isolate themselves from Saidi or baladi people,and not so much the opposite.

quote:

---

Originally posted by leba:
75-80% Of the Egyptians live in the northern part of the country (the Delta)...So the US government is right about Egyptians being white.

---

Wtf thier no way US is right of eygpt being white. Dont blurt out statistics you dont know of. Its more like 60% in the delta and 40% in upper egypt. First off everyone in the delta is not white. The elite class is a minority of egypt they are the only caucasian ppl living in egypt. The delta is diverse of brown and mallatoes, many egyptians from the delta(even from ciaro) get mistaken as latinoes or south asians, and these ppl are not white.

[This message has been edited by multisphinx (edited 13 September 2005).]

quote:

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Originally posted by multisphinx:
Wtf thier no way US is right of eygpt being white. Dont blurt out statistics you dont know of. First off not everyone in the delta is not white. The elite class is a minority of egypt they are the only caucasian ppl living in egypt. The delta is diverse of brown and mallatoes, many egyptians from the delta(even from ciaro) get mistaken as latinoes or south asians, and these ppl are not white.

[This message has been edited by multisphinx (edited 13 September 2005).]

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This is what most Egyptians look like. (Yea i know its diverse and all)

quote:

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Originally posted by leba:
75-80% Of the Egyptians live in the northern part of the country (the Delta)...So the US government is right about Egyptians being white.

---

The government doesn't specify that all Egyptians are white.

quote:

---

Originally posted by leba:
This is what most Egyptians look like. (Yea i know its diverse and all)

---

Oh no thats not how egyptians look like, those ppl look arab not egyptian. Who are u? Have you been to egypt?

quote:

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Originally posted by multisphinx:

Oh no thats not how egyptians look like, those ppl look arab not egyptian. Who are u? Have you been to egypt?

[This message has been edited by multisphinx (edited 13 September 2005).]

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Nah, Most north Egyptians look like that trust me, And also I've visited Egypt so Yes.

quote:

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Originally posted by leba:
75-80% Of the Egyptians live in the northern part of the country (the Delta)...So the US government is right about Egyptians being white.

---

And the word of a dog's ass means NOTHING.

People from Northern Egypt and the Delta range from looking southern European, Arabic,Magrebian[North-west African],light-skinned blacks[like Ahmed Zaki from Zagazig],and light-brown people. Certain parts of the Delta have strong Berber and Bedouin Arab influences. There are also some people around Mansoura that are lighter than the usual Egyptian. Sometimes in different families in northern Egypt you get a combination of all these groups. One must consider that lots of foreigners from the Late dyanstic period untill the Islamic era came into Egypt. Even during the Ottoman period some Circassians settled in parts of the Delta. I even know of people claiming to come from Checkniya[sp] because of their sur-names in the Delta.

Before Israel became a nation there were many Jews in parts of the Delta.

A Roman writer named Achillies Taitus called the Delta Egyptians in his novel half-caste aethiopies. That was about 40 AD.

Yes, most of the population of Egypt is in the Nile Delta You have about 16 million in Cairo alone. Not sure what the population of Alexandria is. There are also many other smaller cities in the Delta.

quote:

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Originally posted by multisphinx:
Wtf thier no way US is right of eygpt being white. Dont blurt out statistics you dont know of. Its more like 60% in the delta and 40% in upper egypt. First off everyone in the delta is not white. The elite class is a minority of egypt they are the only caucasian ppl living in egypt. The delta is diverse of brown and mallatoes, many egyptians from the delta(even from ciaro) get mistaken as latinoes or south asians, and these ppl are not white.

[This message has been edited by multisphinx (edited 13 September 2005).]

[This message has been edited by multisphinx (edited 13 September 2005).]

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quote:

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Originally posted by leba:
This is what most Egyptians look like. (Yea i know its diverse and all)

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wrong. Egyptians look more like this than that
http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/0504/images/classroom.jpg

but many are darker. a good example of someone who would fit well with the population in all parts of Egypt is Tatyana Ali.

quote:

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Originally posted by multisphinx:

Oh no thats not how egyptians look like, those ppl look arab not egyptian. Who are u? Have you been to egypt?

[This message has been edited by multisphinx (edited 13 September 2005).]

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Multi tell me how is Cairo??

Upper Egypt makes up about 30% of the population. Most Egyptians do live in the Nile Delta. Some Saidi people living in Cairo and Alexandria[mostly baladi neighboorhoods]. Lots of Fellahin from the Delta also moved into those neighboorhoods. As I mentione Northern Egyptians range from Southern European looking,Magrebian[Moroccan and Algerian looking],Arabic[many areas in the eastern Delta have historically been home to Arabic tribes],light-skinned blacks[such as Ahmed Zaki the know deceased Egyptian actor from Zagazig]

In some parts of the Delta they have strong bedouin Arab and Berber[Imazghen] ancestry. In some areas like Mansoura they are often pale with light eyes and hair.

I agree that Upper Egyptians should not be marginalized. Unfortunately many people totally ignore populations of Upper Egypt or anything past Cairo. In ancient Egypt most of the population density was actually located in Luxor-Aswan area. This is quite the reverse in the modern era.

Dr. Ahmed Saleh from Mansoura governate

__deceased Egyptian Actor from Zagazig

With children in his ancestral Nile Delta village of Toukh El-Aqlam

Dr. Farouk El-Baz: Ibn El-Dakahliya Al-Qadim min Al-Mustaqbal." (in Arabic: Biography of Dr. Farouk El-Baz: Son of Dakahliya Governorate Who Comes From the Future). General Directorate of Public Relations, DAKAHLIYA GOVERNORATE, Mansoura, Egypt, 1995, 175 p.

Just some examples of Delta Egyptians. Whatever modern Delta Egyptians are neither black nor white. Some can definately pass for light-skinned black people in North-America and many look bi-racial. Some might even pass for southern Europeans. Modern Northern Egyptians are a mixed people. Just leave it at that

quote:

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i have a problem with the fact that Upper Egyptians are usually not included in surveys and tests done on Egyptians and they're typically thought of as "less egyptian" than the rest by racists

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As do I. Unfortunately,most Khawagas don't know very much about Egypt past Cairo. Most tourists don't pay any attention to the rural populations. What's worse is that many genetic studies don't typically have samples of populations past areas Asyut.

Most people who study Egypt also exclude the fact that modern Northern Egyptians are heavily mixed with many Eur-asian groups.

quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:

As do I. Unfortunately,most Khawagas don't know very much about Egypt past Cairo.

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quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:

As do I. Unfortunately,most Khawagas don't know very much about Egypt past Cairo. Most tourists don't pay any attention to the rural populations. What's worse is that many genetic studies don't typically have samples of populations past areas Asyut.

Most people who study Egypt also exclude the fact that modern Northern Egyptians are heavily mixed with many Eur-asian groups.

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Keep educating us. I mean it. I find this fascinating.

And I will totally admit I'm ignorant about these things. Unfortunately, this particular board is *way* above my head. But I'll keep reading.....things should eventually sink in.

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Originally posted by walklikeanegyptian:
khawaga means a foreigner in egypt. that is what Upper Egyptians call white Americans who visit Egypt.

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A buddy of mine told me foriegners, specifically American foriegner in Egyptian means Khanis and Sharmoota...