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Originally posted by walklikeanegyptian:
khawaga means a foreigner in egypt. that is what Upper Egyptians call white Americans who visit Egypt.

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Thanks, Walk.

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A buddy of mine told me foriegners, specifically American foriegner in Egyptian means Khanis and Sharmoota

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You seem to have your facts mixed up and you're very out of touch with the real people of Egypt.

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Originally posted by walklikeanegyptian:
it also bothers me that Lower Egyptians, who are mixed with many other ethnicities, act like they are the descendants of the pharaohs, and other people give them that satisfaction. it's almost like Cairo and Alexandria are Egypt alone, without including the rest of the country.

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Both Northern and Southern Egyptians use the same expression, but I would say that it started in the North and adopted by the south.

KHAWAGA, does not mean a white person, but rather just someone from another country who does not look Egyptian or act like an Egyptian, with few exceptions.

QUESTION: WHAT DO EGYPTIANS CALL BLACK AFRICANS WHO VISIT OR LIVE IN EGYPT?

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Originally posted by walklikeanegyptian:
khawaga means a foreigner in egypt. that is what Upper Egyptians call white Americans who visit Egypt.

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This another 1/2 truth---

Both Northern and Southern Egyptians use the same expression, but I would say that it started in the North and adopted by the south.

KHAWAGA, does not mean a white person, but rather just someone from another country who does not look Egyptian or act like an Egyptian, with few exceptions

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This is not true either. Saidis back in the 1800's and 1900's used to call Northern Egyptians in Southern Egypt khawagas. This was mainly because Northern Egyptians were often lighter and foreign. Their dialect of Arabic sounded as strange as Saidi does to a bahary[Northern Egyptian] This was before the big boom in tourism in areas like Luxor and Aswan.

Let take it a step forward and say that Fellahin from both the Delta and Upper Egypt don't consider city dwellers as their people. Many times when a person leaves their village and moves into the city they are seen as corrupted.

Many of the ''black'' Africans that come into Egypt are mainly Southern Sudanese or Western Africans from Liberia. The terms for them can range from ''iswad'' to chcocolata. Most Nubians and Somalis are not called ''iswad'' but samarra.

Hebab is kind of a ethnic slur that translates to dirt.

[This message has been edited by ausar (edited 13 September 2005).]

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Where did you learn this information from. As far as I know, and I'm a native person, most Egyptians from both the North and the South try to distance themselves from the Ancient Egyptians, because of their strong Islamic and Coptic religions that denounce the Pharoahs and their people

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Are you sure about this? Fellahin in Upper Egypt[wheather Coptic or Muslim] have always emphasized they were non-Arabic thus desended from pre-Islamic people. Many groups in Egypt claim ashraf[desendant of the phophet Mohammed[p.b.u.h] and have papers to verify their claims. Some rural Egyptians are aware that many of their customs desend back to ancient Egypt and have noted such. Problem is many are illiterate and would probably not believe you if you mentioned such customs went back to ancient Egypt.

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You seem to have your facts mixed up and you're very out of touch with the real people of Egypt

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You would be suprised how many rich Cairene and Alexandrians are out of touch with the baladi and fellahin or Saidi.

I understand that many Egyptians, if not most of them, do not consider themselves Africans at all! Are you aware of this fact?

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Many of the ''black'' Africans that come into Egypt are mainly Southern Sudanese or Western Africans from Liberia. The terms for them can range from ''iswad'' to chcocolata. Nubians and Somalis are not often called ''iswad'',hebab,but
sometimes 'chcolota'.

Hebab is kind of a ethnic slur that translates to dirt.

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Actually, many people refer to black Africans as "Afriqui" or "Zingi Aswad", which shows how Egyptians see them as being very different from themselves

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This does not mean anything. Northern Sudanese called southern Sudanese many different terms. But notice that Nubians and Somalis are not called neither of those terms but Liberians and Southern Sudanese are. Nubians and Somalis are refered to as Samarra. Honestly, I have never heard such terms as Zingi or Afriqui. I have only heard terms like iswad and hebab or 'suud'

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I understand that many Egyptians, if not most of them, do not consider themselves Africans at all! Are you aware of this fact?

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Egyptians not considering themselves Africans is foolishness. The Nile River run through Africa. Even Nasser as Pan-Arabist said that Egyptians live both in the ''Arab and African'' world.

I would appreciate if you not speak for all Egyptian people. If you don't consider yourself Africa that's fine but I am an African. Plus the way you speak is in the third person which questions your origins.

From my view if your ancestors are not fellahin or Saidi most likely your not a real Egyptian anyway.

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Originally posted by leba:
Nah, Most [b]north Egyptians look like that trust me, And also I've visited Egypt so Yes.

[This message has been edited by leba (edited 13 September 2005).][/B]

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Here are some delta egyptians.

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Originally posted by Giza-Rider:
This is not just my opinion, but rather the overwhelming point of view from most Egyptians.

[QUOTE]
Egyptians not considering themselves Africans is foolishness. The Nile River run through Africa. Even Nasser as Pan-Arabist said that Egyptians live both in the ''Arab and African'' world.

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Originally posted by multisphinx:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by leba:
[b] Nah, Most [b]north Egyptians look like that trust me, And also I've visited Egypt so Yes.

[This message has been edited by leba (edited 13 September 2005).][/B]

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Here are some delta egyptians.

[This message has been edited by multisphinx (edited 13 September 2005).][/B][/QUOTE]

This Egyptian guy resembles Rageh Omar allot

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Originally posted by multisphinx:
Here are more delta egytians

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that family you posted in front of the pyramid is obviously mixed with black, and it would be recognized in America. the rest of them look racially mixed.

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Originally posted by ausar:
This is not true either. Saidis back in the 1800's and 1900's used to call Northern Egyptians in Southern Egypt khawagas. This was mainly because Northern Egyptians were often lighter and foreign. Their dialect of Arabic sounded as strange as Saidi does to a bahary[Northern Egyptian] This was before the big boom in tourism in areas like Luxor and Aswan.

Let take it a step forward and say that Fellahin from both the Delta and Upper Egypt don't consider city dwellers as their people. Many times when a person leaves their village and moves into the city they are seen as corrupted.

Many of the ''black'' Africans that come into Egypt are mainly Southern Sudanese or Western Africans from Liberia. The terms for them can range from ''iswad'' to chcocolata. Most Nubians and Somalis are not called ''iswad'' but samarra.

Hebab is kind of a ethnic slur that translates to dirt.

[This message has been edited by ausar (edited 13 September 2005).]

[This message has been edited by ausar (edited 13 September 2005).]

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Originally posted by Ceelgabo_11:
This Egyptian guy resembles Rageh Omar allot

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Originally posted by Giza-Rider:
[b]I understand that many Egyptians, if not most of them, do not consider themselves Africans at all! Are you aware of this fact?

[QUOTE]
Many of the ''black'' Africans that come into Egypt are mainly Southern Sudanese or Western Africans from Liberia. The terms for them can range from ''iswad'' to chcocolata. Nubians and Somalis are not often called ''iswad'',hebab,but
sometimes 'chcolota'.

Hebab is kind of a ethnic slur that translates to dirt.

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just because they don't consider themselves African doesn't mean they aren't. do you think Michael Jackson considers himself black? no, but is he? obviously, he'll still be black regardless of what he does to himself. my grandfather's friend went to Ethiopia and said they don't consider themselves Africans either. does that make them something else, as well?

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Originally posted by walklikeanegyptian:

my grandfather's friend went to Ethiopia and said they don't consider themselves Africans either.

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well....african unity is just a new thing....the thing is they dont consider them self negro. Or the somalies, or the sudanies and the egyptians.

It is actually an insult in Egypt to call an Egyptian, Aswad (Black).

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Originally posted by COBRA:
[] well....african unity is just a new thing....the thing is they dont consider them self negro. Or the somalies, or the sudanies and the egyptians.

[This message has been edited by COBRA (edited 14 September 2005).][/B]

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Originally posted by Giza-Rider:
Also, most Egyptians DO NOT CONSIDER THEMSELVES BLACK EITHER, even the darker people of Upper Egypt!

[b]It is actually an insult in Egypt to call an Egyptian, Aswad (Black).

[/B]

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i agree.....but tell it to these AFRO nuts....no point!!!

MOST AFRICANS, BLACK, WHITE, BROWN, AND OTHERS DO NOT FOLLOW YOUR STUPID AMERICAN SYSTEMS AND NEVER WILL. PEOPLE LIKE YOU NEED TO TRAVEL OUTSIDE OF THE COUNTRY (US) AND ACTUALLY SEE THE OTHER LARGER PART OF THE WORLD AND LEARN TO APPRECIATE HOW THE PEOPLE THINK AND DEFINE THEMSELVES.

AMERICAN IGNORANCE IS NOT AN UNKNOWN SUBJECT IN MANY COUNTRIES OVERSEAS - PEOPLE EVEN JOKE ABOUT IT DAILY!

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Originally posted by walklikeanegyptian:

just because they don't consider themselves African doesn't mean they aren't. do you think Michael Jackson considers himself black? no, but is he? obviously, he'll still be black regardless of what he does to himself. my grandfather's friend went to Ethiopia and said they don't consider themselves Africans either. does that make them something else, as well?

you need to stop speaking for all Egyptians. i definitely don't agree with your views.

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Originally posted by Giza-Rider:

[b]It is actually an insult in Egypt to call an Egyptian, Aswad (Black).
[/B]

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I have sadly noticed this racism when ever i am back in egypt, a lot of egyptians i met would object to being called black or african. Why is it that many light skinned egyptians are racist towards darker skinned egyptians? Is there some historical context to this ie did this attitude develop as an offset from egypts colonisation by Britain? This is the only guess at an explanation i can come up with. I've been told that the ancient egyptians were darker skinned themselves.

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Originally posted by Giza-Rider:
[b]RACE IS A SOCIAL CONSTRUCT THAT DOES NOT DEPEND YOUR AMERICAN DEFINITION OF WHO IS WHAT OR WHAT IS WHO

MOST AFRICANS, BLACK, WHITE, BROWN, AND OTHERS DO NOT FOLLOW YOUR STUPID AMERICAN SYSTEMS AND NEVER WILL. PEOPLE LIKE YOU NEED TO TRAVEL OUTSIDE OF THE COUNTRY AND ACTUALLY SEE THE OTHER LARGER PART OF THE WORLD AND HOW THEY THINK.

[/B]

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We are not arguing bout the classification system in egypt, because if that was the case then what we are arguin is for no purpose. We are arguing bout the classification system here in the US, when egyptians come here they do not want to be classified as somthing they are not.

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Originally posted by walklikeanegyptian:

just because they don't consider themselves African doesn't mean they aren't. do you think Michael Jackson considers himself black? no, but is he? obviously, he'll still be black regardless of what he does to himself. my grandfather's friend went to Ethiopia and said they don't consider themselves Africans either. does that make them something else, as well?

you need to stop speaking for all Egyptians. i definitely don't agree with your views.

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Most Egyptians, are not racist people, but their may be a few exceptions amongst the elite classes of people whose ancestors were Turkish or European to begin with. Even these people, are no longer pure anything and most of them have married with the other native Egyptians.

SADAT WHO IS HALF SUDANESE AND DARKER THAN MOST EGYPTIANS, WAS CHOSEN TO BE PRESIDENT---Where do you see the RACISM??

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Originally posted by Leila:
I have sadly noticed this racism when ever i am back in egypt, a lot of egyptians i met would object to being called black or african. Why is it that many light skinned egyptians are racist towards darker skinned egyptians? Is there some historical context to this ie did this attitude develop as an offset from egypts colonisation by Britain? This is the only guess at an explanation i can come up with. I've been told that the ancient egyptians were darker skinned themselves.

Sorry to pop up in your forum like this - just found this a good chance to ask a question i’ve been wondering about.

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Originally posted by Giza-Rider:
THE PROBLEM WITH THE WORD AFRICAN IS THAT SOME "IGNORANT" PEOPLE ASSUME THAT ALL AFRICANS ARE BLACK, BUT THAT IS NOT THE CASE. That is the reason, that most Egyptians do not think of themselves as Africans, because of the connotation of the word itself.
[This message has been edited by Giza-Rider (edited 14 September 2005).]

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I don't understand your reasoning here. You just said in another post Egyptians aren't racist, yet now you say they don't want to be identified with Africa because people assume all Africans are black. What am I missing?

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Originally posted by Giza-Rider:
Are you a native born Egyptian or did you get this impression from being tourist in Egypt?

Most Egyptians, are not racist people, but their may be a few exceptions amongst the elite classes of people whose ancestors were Turkish or European to begin with. Even these people, are no longer pure anything and most of them have married with the other native Egyptians.

[b]SADAT WHO IS HALF SUDANESE AND DARKER THAN MOST EGYPTIANS, WAS CHOSEN TO BE PRESIDENT---Where do you see the RACISM??
[/B]

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No i wasn't born in egypt but i have family there and have spent enough time in cairo to see a racial undertone.. jokes about black people, girls applying white powder to try and make their skin look whiter because they think it will make them more beautiful, even ridiculous things like when kofi anon was in egypt a few years back i actually heard comments from people i thought were intelligent saying “we treated him well even though he is black”.. SOME egyptians really do look down on others who are poorer than them, perceived as a lesser ‘class’ or with darker skin. I’m not advocating this, i think it is shameful and something that needs to change, but i have seen it with my own eyes.

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Originally posted by COBRA:
well....african unity is just a new thing....the thing is they dont consider them self negro. Or the somalies, or the sudanies and the egyptians.

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Here we go again!

Can you DEFINE negro?!

If you can't define it, then I will define it for you!!

Ne·gro
1. A Black person. See Usage Note at black.
2. A member of the Negroid race. Not in scientific use

Derived from Spanish and Portuguese negro meaning "black"

Main Entry: Ne·gro
Pronunciation: 'nE-(")grO
Function: noun
Inflected Form: plural Negroes
sometimes offensive : a member of the black race distinguished from members of other races by usually inherited physical and physiological characteristics without regard to language or culture; especially : a member of a people belonging to the African branch of the black race
—Negro adjective

negro
adj : relating to or characteristic of or being a member of the traditional racial division of mankind having brown to black pigmentation and tightly curled hair n : a person with dark skin who comes from Africa (or whose ancestors came from Africa)
[syn: Black, Black person, blackamoor, Negro, Negroid]

As you can see "negro" simply means black or black person.

But how does the silly snake Cobra use the word??

During the 18th century, when Europeans were going about their "caucasoid" craze and classifying many people as "caucasoid" so that they may claim their culture. (like the Egyptians) It was during this time that the classification of "negro" was narrowed down and people with kinky hair and broad noses etc. became "true" negroes. In fact people outside of Africa who had such features were also called "negro"! Whereas those Africans who did not fit such a description were called "Hamites" or "black-skinned caucasoid" or "caucasoid-mixed people", just because some of their features happened to be similar to Europeans.

All of that ridiculous nonsense has been debunked a long time ago however, and MOST people who use the term "negro" use it in it's original context which is just black person. Only a few ignorant folks use the old "true" negro myth to refer to those blacks who have the 'West African' or 'Bantu' features. These folks don't realize that blacks who don't have these features would be "Hamites" or degenerate, blackened caucasians or that people outside of Africa in Asia or the Pacific would also be called "negro"!!

Which is why such racial terms should be avoided altogether. Most anthropologists today agree that indigenous Africans fall within a diversity of features, ALL EQUALLY AFRICAN. So, perhaps the most accurate term to describe Africans is 'Africoid'.

Serpents are said to be wise, but ignorant Cobra seems to be speaking with the same forked tongue as those old Europeans. Perhaps it is because of his Irish heritage!

As I take it the Irish seem to have a problem with racism, and it has gotten worse with the influx of African refugees and asylum seekers. Perhaps Cobra is so adamant about not being "negro" so he can be closer to his Irish brothers and not put up with the b.s. that other Africans get.

Is it working for him?

Is Cobra perhaps what they call a "flip-flop oreo"?