This image is of an Egyptian whose name is "NiAnkhPepiKem," and whom "Western Egyptologist" routinely translate as NiAnkhPepi the Black; had they maintained the consistency of their historical distortion, he would be called Niankhpepi the Egyptian - since they routinely translate "Km" or Km.t" to "Egyptian." But that would betray their efforts to distort Ancient African history. In any case, it's all a crock...
All Kemetu names are comprised of words or expressions which have meanings: "TutAnkhAmen" = "Living Image of Amen" or "Amen's living Image"; and literally as "Living image of the One Who is Hidden." "AmenHotp" = "Amen is pleased" or "Amen's pleasure"; and literally as "The One Who is Hidden is pleased"
Now, let us look at this "NiAnkhPepiKem" fella; Ni = "not; reject; no" Ankh = "living; to live" Pepi = "to make bricks" Coptic: Pape; Phafhe (fafe) Kem = "to end, bring to a finish, complete)
So, the best translation of this Egyptian's name would be something like; "Not living to make bricks (period; forever; to the end)"; I don't think it means "Not living to make black bricks"; that would more likely be written NiAnkhKemPepi! But it's certain that it doesn't mean "NiAnkhPepi" the Black. It's another ruse.
quote: Djehuti wrote analytically Not only is the 6th dynasty (like all Egyptian dynasties) black, but if one were to go the Eurocentric route and claim that the Egyptians weren't black, then by claiming that Niankhpepi was black would mean that he isn't Egyptian but 'Nubian'! Yet is there any proof that the guy was 'Nubian' and not Egyptian?!!
Anyway, all the depictions of him look no different from other ancient Egyptians, so what gives with this "the black" stuff??
We should not continue to parrot these distortions; we must use critical analysis (as Djehuti did) in these matters at all times. And, it's also a good idea to have some familiarity with the Mdu Ntr. (You have all heard me say this before, and I will continue to do so, until...)
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Now, let us look at this "NiAnkhPepiKem" fella; Ni = "not; reject; no" Ankh = "living; to live" Pepi = "to make bricks" Coptic: Pape; Phafhe (fafe) Kem = "to end, bring to a finish, complete)
Two questions:
1.) "not living to make bricks" [??] 2.) How can we know that kem here is meant in the sense of kem/kem, the end, complete?
Note, the translation does not require the addition of kem at the end -> NiAnkhPepi would read just the same, no?
Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
That seems like an odd name. What was the man's profession that he need a name that said he didn't make bricks.
Posts: 167 | From: usa | Registered: Jul 2004
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Remember pepi was a popular name in the early dynasties of Egypt. There were multiple kings named Pepi.
Posts: 8901 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by kifaru: That seems like an odd name. What was the man's profession that he need a name that said he didn't make bricks.
The Tomb of Niankhpepi (The curse inscription)
The Curse/Warning
The sole confidant, the Ritualist, the Nobleman of the King. Niankhpepi he says:
"As to anyone who will do anything evil to this Tomb of the Necropolis, who will remove a stone from its place (the sarcophagus lid) I will be judged with him in his august and excellent Council of the great God of the West. I will seize his backbone like a bird, the fear of me shall be put into him in order that those who are living may see and will be afraid of the excellent spirits; I am an excellent spirit; not any secret magic formula was hidden from me, for I am a clever ritualist and a learned man."
BIBLIOGRAPHY
Mastabas of Ny-ankh-pepi & Others Excavations at Saqqara 1937-1938 Volume II Prof. Dr. Selim Hassan PhD (Vienna)
Posts: 1549 | From: California, USA | Registered: Jan 2006
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Wally, there is a priest I believe dating to around the 5th or 6th dyansty with the term km in his name that translates to ''black'' by most scholars. Don't have this information with me currently but I have seen it. Do you have any comments on the particular priest?
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Many cultures, as they were evolving, assigned names based on location, occupation, association with a specific people/group as they knew they would be imbued with the character of that living name. Does Schwartzenegger give a clue, real or imaignery to the name association. Same difference?
Posts: 1290 | From: usa | Registered: May 2005
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yazid quote: ______________________________________________________ Does Schwartzenegger give a clue, real or imaignery to the name association. Same difference? ___________________________________________________________ Good point, this name translates: "Black Nigger".
-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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Egge is to "plow" so an egger would be a "plower" or plowman.
Proper German should use schwarten eggeren keeping both adjective and noun plural.
For singular I expect schwartzegger.
German hip-hop uses negger for nigger as do older works one of which by Weigal describes Piye as a negger keonig. He used negger so no one would be confused over exactly what sterotype of humanity he meant.
Privately a German may remark that a fellow's tan "ist braun wie ein NEGGER!"
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ausar: Wally, there is a priest I believe dating to around the 5th or 6th dyansty with the term km in his name that translates to ''black'' by most scholars. Don't have this information with me currently but I have seen it. Do you have any comments on the particular priest?
I'm not familiar with this priest. The important thing to keep in mind is not that "black" is translated correctly, it's the context in which it is used to form a statement/name. I'd be willing to bet that that's the only part of this priest's name that was translated into English...
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Pepi I - 3rd king; 6th Dynasty (Pepi II was the 5th king of this dynasty)
Another variation of Pepi's name written
I also found a picture of a fragment containing a variation of Pepi's name/title (not very clear,looks like "Pepi re ankh ka") (The image wouldn't display here.)
The only rendering of this word in budge's dictionary (p235b) which is written exactly like the one in the above name is: ppy (followed by the "ou" sign which would indicate the missing vowel; and a determinative that represents; "to swath a mummy, embalm a body, the dead, to count up, to reckon); this word Ppy means "to make bricks."
Budge's definitions and usages of the root "Km" Since everyone doesn't have a heiroglyphic dictionary...
Page 787b; using Budge's spellings; all of these words, of course, are written with the "crocodile scales" for "km":
kam- to end, to bring to an end, to finish, to complete kam.t- the end, completion, finish kami.t- finished products kam (ou)(determanative: man touching his mouth)- "definition is missing" kamkam- to vanish, to pass away, disappear, decay kam, kami- to be black kamm- to be black kam.t- a black thing (Na) Kammau- Egyptians kami.t- books of the black land kami.t (cow)- Black cow ...and continues on the following page...
The use of these words, obviously is contextual, depending on the flow of conversation and/or meanings-like most all languages I am familiar with: thus we have:
kam her- "Black face" the title of the Crocodile god men kem- Black cloth Pe kam...- The Black... Coptic:P(e) Kame Kam Isi- "Black Isis"
I have no actual sentences to cite as examples of the usage of the word "Km" to mean complete, finish, etc. But we can extrapolate, using the context of what is being said:
"Ny Ankh Pepi" As rasol stated, the "Km" ending seems superfluous... a) Ne; Ny- to turn away, set aside, reject (variation of "nn") b) Ny- preposition "of" c) Ny- which not, etc; a particle of negation (variation of "nn") d) Ny- Yes; a particle of affirmation
Possible meanings; including "km": a) Reject living to make bricks b) (I) will not live to make bricks c) (I) will not live to make black bricks d) (I) will not live to finish making bricks
Unlikely: b) Reject living to make bricks, the Black
Keep in mind also that the "Tao" Clan - the S.kenenres' which lead the liberation of Kemet from the Hyksos occupation; Tao;Taw means "baked bread"...
Coptic: pwwpe - knead (clay); make bricks Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Neger is the German word for negro
Schwartze is black singular
Schwartzen would be plural
Egge is to "plow" so an egger would be a "plower" or plowman.
Proper German should use schwarten eggeren keeping both adjective and noun plural.
For singular I expect schwartzegger.
German hip-hop uses negger for nigger as do older works one of which by Weigal describes Piye as a negger keonig. He used negger so no one would be confused over exactly what sterotype of humanity he meant.
Privately a German may remark that a fellow's tan "ist braun wie ein NEGGER!"
It is possible that in the case of names, the grammar need not be accurate. Just as certain names are based on words but over time the phrase is shortened to where there is inaccurate grammar.
Either that, or there could be a reference to actual color or complexion. As in the English name 'Black', even though such persons who have those names are just as white as the next Englishman.
Posts: 26348 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
In this case the schwarzen -- the "en" form is common enough in German names, I forgot about pluralis majestis -- could refer to hair color or any of the numerous other connotations of "black." So as you said, Blackplower it is.
As a sidebar here're some family crests showing the schwarze doesn't always refer to an inner African.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: It is possible that in the case of names, the grammar need not be accurate. Just as certain names are based on words but over time the phrase is shortened to where there is inaccurate grammar.
Either that, or there could be a reference to actual color or complexion. As in the English name 'Black', even though such persons who have those names are just as white as the next Englishman.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by rasol: Yes, I can easily surmise the Pepi - brick maker connotation.
The "not live to make bricks" part i'm having difficulty with.
It seems self negating for a name.
Ie -> Joe Carpenter makes sense, but Joe NotAcarpenter (??)
And moreover if iconography exists wherein he is just referred to as Pepi, then it's very difficult to understand the negation Ny Ankh Pepi.
Is is possible that Ny Ankh could mean un-living in the sense of 'spirit.'?
What other uses of Ny Ankh exists in the primary text?
These are good questions, however they are irrelevant to my initial point, but certainly more relevant to this discussion than Arnold Schwarzenegger's last name!
My initial point The way that "Western Egyptologists" run a ruse on folks; in this case the rendering of a Kememu's name as "NyAnkhPepi, the Black" - "the Black" part being the only part of the Mdu Ntr phrase that is "translated" into English. And how easily people parrot these distortions...
Pharaohs There is a new and innocuous commercial book out titled "Pharaohs" by Aude Gros de Beler. It's the typical book on Ancient Egypt but what makes this book different is that at the end (pp118-119) there is a list of about 38 Kings of Egypt and this list actually gives a translation of the meanings of the names of these kings; with notable exceptions; all of which helps to prove my point:
a) Ahmose- the moon is born | Nebpehtyre- the lord of strength is Re
b) Khufu- protected by Khnum | Menkaure- eternal like the souls of Re ...etc...
Here are three notable exceptions; c) Pepy I- Pepy | Meryre- beloved of Re
d) Pepy II- Pepy | Neferkare- beautiful is the soul of Re
e) Unas- Unas
The reason that Pepy is not translated is probably due to the fact that the author doesn't know the actual meaning of the Mdu Ntr "Ppy" (and "Unas"). It may, indeed, be like the word "Osiris" in which Budge spent quite some time in trying to figure out its original meanings, since it was a word which had existed in the language as early as predynastic times. "Pepy" could also be such a word, but there is a word in the Mdu Ntr "Ppy" which means "to make bricks." The point is not to know the exact meaning of "Ppy" but to show the silliness of translating such words only partially, and in a calculated manner to make them mean what they, in fact, do not. If you don't know the meanings of "NyAnkhPepi" then you cannot know the usage of "km" in this name/title!Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote: If you don't know the meanings of "NyAnkhPepi" then you cannot know the usage of "km" in this name/title!
Perhaps. But I don't see how knowing the meaning of NYAnkhPepi leads you to the conclusion that km in his name means -> "the end."
Nor do I understand: "not living to make bricks, the end", which honestly, sounds like jibberish.
I did notice that most of the replies are about Arnold Schwartzenegger, and so off topic which leads me to believe that no one else understands the above translation either.
Anyone who can help feel free, because I'm lost. Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Wally: It may, indeed, be like the word "Osiris" in which Budge spent quite some time in trying to figure out its original meanings, since it was a word which had existed in the language as early as predynastic times.
...and naturally, this was under the consideration of its authentic Kemetic term of "ausar/asr", which seems to have the tendency of being somewhat eclipsed by its Greek manipulation, as per the frequency of usage?!
Posts: 5964 | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
Yes the term "NY" in mdu ntr is a "greek" bastardization of Netjer/ntr/neteru/netir/neterchu etc. so it means the GOD/MAKER not the word "not" nyankhpepi= living God/maker to make bricks. I.e Ny-netjer in the 2nd dynasty means "God of Gods"
-------------------- Oderint dum metuant!
"Let them hate as long as they fear!" Posts: 33 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Senkhemdjed: Yes the term "NY" in mdu ntr is a "greek" bastardization of Netjer/ntr/neteru/netir/neterchu etc. so it means the GOD/MAKER not the word "not" nyankhpepi= living God/maker to make bricks. I.e Ny-netjer in the 2nd dynasty means "God of Gods"
Problem... "NyAnkhPepi" is not a "Greek" expression. In the Mdu Ntr "Ny" has several meanings...
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote: If you don't know the meanings of "NyAnkhPepi" then you cannot know the usage of "km" in this name/title!
Perhaps. But I don't see how knowing the meaning of NYAnkhPepi leads you to the conclusion that km in his name means -> "the end."
Nor do I understand: "not living to make bricks, the end", which honestly, sounds like jibberish.
I did notice that most of the replies are about Arnold Schwartzenegger, and so off topic which leads me to believe that no one else understands the above translation either.
Anyone who can help feel free, because I'm lost.
Lemme try to 'splain once more
The expression "Ny Ankh Pepi kem" does make sense in the Mdu Ntr.
a) "Reject living to finish making bricks" b) "Reject living to make bricks (kem: "!; period; to completion; until you finish")
c) NyAnkhPepi = "Reject living to make bricks"
...And Pepi III Here's Pepi III's Nsuten name: Nefer Ka Re Pepi Senb
"(the) beautiful essence of the Sun (and to) make bricks to protect (it)."
Essentially:
"He makes a brick wall to protect the beautiful essence (Ka) of the Sun (Re)."
You can see in all three names a consistency with a propensity to extol the virtue of making bricks; perhaps this is an allusion to Masonry?
To give you a better idea of Mdu Ntr "gibberish", let us examine this:
pre-18th dynasty example The liberators of Kemet: I) Nsuten name: S_Qen(en) Re | SaRe name: Tao II) Nsuten name: S_Qen(en) Re | SaRe name: Tao(ao) III) Nsuten name: S_Qen(en) Re | SaRe name: Tao Qen
Key S_Qen (en) = "to make bold, to encourage" Re = "the Sun, Solar god" Ta = "bread, loaf, cake" (see Budge's dictionary; page 817a,b. This appears to be a special/often ceremonial type of bread/cake) Ao (ao) = "great, greater" Qen = "warrior, soldier, man of war"
S_Qen(en) Re... (I, II, III) Nsuten name: "Emboldened by the Solar god (Re)"
(I) SaRe name: "The Great Bread Cake" (II) SaRe name: "The Greater Bread Cake" (III) SaRe name: "The Great Bread Cake Warrior"
Still confused? ...
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Aparently this nigroid Wally hasn't figured out how much the Greeks have screwed up Egyptian language which is typical. Not realizing that many words that he believes are indigenous ARE indeed NOT. Ny means God sir "Ny-netjer" means God of Gods case closed which makes the phrase "Nyankhpepi" much more applicable than what you are claiming it to mean. All you have to do is find out what Ny-netjer means..go google it and quit being an African American about it.
-------------------- Oderint dum metuant!
"Let them hate as long as they fear!" Posts: 33 | Registered: Mar 2006
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a) Pepi b) Pepi Kem c) Ny Ankh Pepi and... d) Ny Ankh Pepi Kem.
You have ->
a) Brickmaker b) Brickmaker [complete] or Black Brickmaker c) Reject living to make bricks. d) Reject living to complete making bricks.
The last two definitions are the least coherent.
I offer the hypothesis that his name is essentially Pepi, brickmaker - a common name in the medew netchter.
Everything before or after that would seem to be tangential.
But I cannot understand any interpretation that "rejects" his name, or rejects "living".
You don't call a person Brickmaker - and then give him the "full" name - Not a Brickmaker.
And none of examples are equivalent to your defintion of Pepi,
ie Show me - Ahmose - the moon is born Ny Ankh Ahmose -> not living moon is born.
If that makes any sense, it's going over my head.
quote:In the Mdu Ntr "Ny" has several meanings...
Now you're talking. I think Ny Ankh, in Ny Ankh Pepi simply does not mean not living to make bricks.
ps - I am even more skeptical about 'kem' meaning complete, as in 'complete' making bricks, especially if the whole thing is being negated by Ny Ankh. Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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Who the hell would be named or name themself "to reject god". Just give it up you idiot@wally you are incorrect..why do you African Americans when you are proven wrong just continue to be ignorant just to stand on your own peg leg just learn and move on DAMN!!
-------------------- Oderint dum metuant!
"Let them hate as long as they fear!" Posts: 33 | Registered: Mar 2006
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According to this interpretation the expression "Ny-Ankh" used here means to possess life; so, it is essentially what I have already stated...
quote: Ny Ankh: to turn away from life Ny Ankh: to set aside life Ny Ankh: to reject life > to dedicate one's life to being a Brickmaker > to give up (the joy of) life to become a Brickmaker > to set aside life in order to make bricks
The "Ny" word used here would be more one of "controlling" ones life rather than merely "possessing" it.
Here are some other examples: Ny-Ankh-Nefertem; Ny-ankh-menu...
Here is another opinion on the usage of "Km" in the name of "Ny-Ankh-Pepi"
quote: `The black' (or km) in Ny-ankh Pepy the black is not so much of an adjective as it is an ADJECTIVAL NOUN. As such, it functions not as an epithet, but as an **appositive. `The Black' in this case is a nominal appositive (thanks especially to the determinative `the'). Which means that it (adjectival noun) can stand on its own, and form the subject of a verb in a separate enunciation; such as /The Black holds holds sway/. `Black' as pure adjective or epithet could not so stand. http://asiapacificuniverse.com/pkm/kmt2.htm
This previous statement does not, however, recognize the word "Km" used to mean "completion, etc" ...What do you think?
quote: **appositive a) a word or phrase that restates or modifies an immediately preceding nominal, as Enrico in My son Enrico is 12 years old. NOTE: an appositive is often useful as a context clue for determining or refining the meaning of the word(s) to which it refers
b) a noun or noun phrase that follows another noun and that denotes the same person or thing.
quote:The "Ny" word used here would be more one of "controlling" ones life rather than merely "possessing" it.
I understand this definition a little bit more:
"ny" as possess or control is and affirmation and seems more consistent with a defining motif such as brickmaker -> as opposed to turn away from, which is a negation.
quote:Here is another opinion on the usage of "Km" in the name of "Ny-Ankh-Pepi"
`The black' (or km) in Ny-ankh Pepy the black is not so much of an adjective as it is an ADJECTIVAL NOUN. As such, it functions not as an epithet, but as an **appositive. `The Black' in this case is a nominal appositive (thanks especially to the determinative `the'). Which means that it (adjectival noun) can stand on its own, and form the subject of a verb in a separate enunciation; such as /The Black holds holds sway/. `Black' as pure adjective or epithet could not so stand.
Wally wrote: Now, let us look at this "NiAnkhPepiKem" fella; Ni = "not; reject; no" Ankh = "living; to live" Pepi = "to make bricks" Coptic: Pape; Phafhe (fafe) Kem = "to end, bring to a finish, complete)
So, the best translation of this Egyptian's name would be something like; "Not living to make bricks (period; forever; to the end)"; I don't think it means "Not living to make black bricks"; that would more likely be written NiAnkhKemPepi! But it's certain that it doesn't mean "NiAnkhPepi" the Black. It's another ruse.
Budge Vol.1 page 348 should remove the "Ni" means negative because the spiral is missing. Ni can also mean maleness based of Budge Vol. 348
Do you have a picture of the Mdu Ntr of the person you are taking about?
AmunHotp= The Hidden One, The Peaceful One.
When dealing with that which is Divine then you should emphasize the Divinity.
quote:Originally posted by Hotep2u: ...Budge Vol.1 page 348 should remove the "Ni" means negative because the spiral is missing. Ni can also mean maleness based of Budge Vol. 348
Do you have a picture of the Mdu Ntr of the person you are taking about?
AmunHotp= The Hidden One, The Peaceful One.
When dealing with that which is Divine then you should emphasize the Divinity.
Hotep
I don't have a picture of the writing of "NyAnkhPepiKem" but I do know that it's refreshing to see a growing interest in learning the Mdu Ntr as you are doing. This is great! Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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