posted
I've read and heard that the darker colors symbolized power. What exactly in the art did this affect?
I know AE was black (reddish-brown) but what of the newcomers being painted reddish-brown when they became egyptian?
Also could this have any meaning as to why in most cases Nubians were painted darker? Or others in positions of power?
I was just wondering maybe it's the opposite of how today people of importance, like Alexader automaticly get portrayed as Nordic.
Maybe archeologists of the future will say lighter color was a symbol of power.
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
Man, there was a book once that I read that spoke on this......Dark color, I believe, had a positive quality(might have had others, but I remember the positive attributes). I'll tell you what: There is a statue of King Tut, and they paint him jet-Black. Obviously, that symbolized something cause his normal color is dark-brown. I'll try to find some stuff. Salaam
Posts: 826 | From: U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2006
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I wasn't aware of the existance of a "darkness" color. LOL
quote:I've read and heard that the darker colors symbolized power. What exactly in the art did this affect?
I know AE was black but what of the newcomers being painted black when they became egyptian?
Also could this have any meaning as to why in most cases Nubians were painted darker? Or others in positions of power?
I was just wondering maybe it's the opposite of how today people of importance, like Alexader automaticly get portrayed as Nordic.
Maybe archeologists of the future will say lighter color was a symbol of power
Not "darker colors", just BLACK was a color of power.
Also, I don't know of any foreigners that were depicted as black except Nubians but this was done as conventional stereotype that southerners are jet-black (dark-skinned) [although there ARE exceptions].
quote:Originally posted by Israel: Man, there was a book once that I read that spoke on this......Dark color, I believe, had a positive quality(might have had others, but I remember the positive attributes). I'll tell you what: There is a statue of King Tut, and they paint him jet-Black. Obviously, that symbolized something cause his normal color is dark-brown. I'll try to find some stuff. Salaam
The jet-black statues are Ba statues which represent a spirtual aspect of Tut known as Ba. Ba are depicted as having the sacred color--BLACK.
The color black in traditional Egyptian beliefs is sacred because it represents fertility, rebirth, and ultimately the divine. So of course it was seen as the epitome of positive which is contrary to modern Arabized Egyptian beliefs. This is very reason why The Egyptians named their country Kemet (black country) and themselves Kemau/Kememu/Kemetuwy (black people) etc.
This topic has been discussed several times so you could find useful information here and here and here.
Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:...the whole concept behind 'Kemet' may have to do with something much more with spiritual beliefs, and not just skin color. And may I again point out that these spiritual beliefs are African in origin.
Most Egyptians were not even black in terms of actual complexion, but brown. The Egyptians revered the color for another reason. Unlike cultures of the Near-East and especially those of Europe, black did not embody the negative or bad like death, sorrow, evil, dirty, ugly, etc. On the contrary, it represented positive aspects, in particular it embodied the most sacred belief of the Egyptians which is that of re-birth and regeneration.
Many Egyptologists and early scholars made the mistake of taking the black painted statues and images of many tombs in into their own Western cultural concepts, and thought that they were simply "funerary" images of the "deceased." Many of these statues are actually representations of the ba, which is a spiritual aspect essential for the after-life, thus these statues don't represent death but life.
Ahmose-Nefertari
Ba-statue of Tut
two images of Tut with one being reborn (guess which one)
I remember Horemheb taking Wally's findings as a joke that the Egyptians saw themselves as being "under a black god." But in actuality this could very well be what the Egyptians believed in! Many early gods were depicted in the color black, again to symbolize the gods' powers of re-birth and regeneration, especially gods like Osiris and Isis. Even certain royals had the privilege to be represented in art as having a black color, whenever they are thought to attain a spiritual power or divine status.
Ausar Kem-wer [literally--Osiris, the great black!]
This belief system of the color black being sacred is actually widespread throughout Africa, especially East and Central Africa. For example, in Kenya the Masai people worship their supreme god called Lengai or N'gai, who they call the Black God. Lengai, is opposed by an evil god of chaos who, interestingly enough, is called the red god! The Oromo's supreme god is Waaka who is also called Waaka Guuracha, which means Black God. Many of these peoples relate the black color to the color of the storm coulds that give rain, and to the soil that is rich and fertile. Since Egypt has not had any rain since Neolithic times, it was the soil of the banks of the Nile that expresses the gods' life-giving powers. Which is most likely derived the very term 'Kemet' which means Black-Land as in the whole country not just soil. The Egyptians called themselves the people of the black (divine) land, and to further express their connection to the divine, would even call themselves 'Kemui'/'Kem-au'(Black People). Again the name has little to do with skin color but was symbolical and spiritual.
Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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I meant to title it "AE's symbolism of color darkness?"
So you're saying only black in the painting depicts power or divinity, and all others depict skin color? (with an exception of white ofcourse meaning deceased)
I know that some egyptians were definitely darker than some nubians, however I've read of a depiction of such, and since there was a stereotype, I wondered about a connection between it, and a meaning of power.
quote:I've read and heard that the darker colors symbolized power. What exactly in the art did this affect?
I know AE was black but what of the newcomers being painted black when they became egyptian?
Also could this have any meaning as to why in most cases Nubians were painted darker? Or others in positions of power?
I was just wondering maybe it's the opposite of how today people of importance, like Alexader automaticly get portrayed as Nordic.
Maybe archeologists of the future will say lighter color was a symbol of power
I apologize, I should have specified. When reffering to the egyptians I meant they were brown, I did not mean jet'black! (Except for as a symbol of power.)
...So all the other (actual) skin colors are relevant, and not just being symbolisms?
quote:Originally posted by What Box: So you're saying only black in the painting depicts power or divinity, and all others depict skin color? (with an exception of white ofcourse meaning deceased)
Gold represents divinity also, but black was more potent. Also there are a host of other colors which represent aspects of divinity like green for fertility of the land and blue for invisibility.
The color red represented chaos and evil (note my post above about the Masai god of evil).
quote:I know that some egyptians were definitely darker than some nubians, however I've read of a depiction of such, and since there was a stereotype, I wondered about a connection between it, and a meaning of power.
Usually Egyptians are lighter than Nubians and skin complexion of peoples along the Nile followed a latitude pattern with more southern being darker, but yes there are exceptions.
Also, the stereotype of Nubians being jet-black had nothing to do with symbolism of power so much as that people further south were just dark-skinned!
Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
There are many reasons for the colors in ancient Egyptian artwork. You have to remember that there was a symbolic aspect to Egyptian art as well as a stylistic convention that was present throughout the many periods of Egyptian history.
As far as darker colors symbolizing strength, this comment is often seen with regards to the Egyptian practice of painting women as yellow or a lighter shade of brown or tan than the men. People see the dark browns of the men as representing strength while the lighter shades of the women suggest weakness. This same scheme can be seen in the relative sizes of the figures in some statues, where men can be depicted as three times as large as other family members, mainly symbolizing relative strength and power.
You have to look at a WIDE range of Egyptian art over all the periods of Egyptian history, to begin to appreciate the symbolic language that the Egyptians used, in order to try and understand what is being conveyed. Unfortunately for us, however, our modern notions of race are OFTEN the cause of confusion and distortion when it comes to interpereting Egyptian art, leading to some absurd and contradictory opinions.
Posts: 8889 | Registered: May 2005
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If the artwork depict ancient Egyptians doing every day common things then most likely they are represented in naturalistic colors. Symbolic colors are only represented in funerary or spirtual ceremonial pratices. If you want realistic colors then check out the tomb of Me-ket-re models of Egyptians in dark brown skin coloring doing every day activies. Also the tombs of Senefer,Ipuy,Nebamun and etc show naturalistic coloration.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote: Maybe archeologists of the future will say lighter color was a symbol of power
Not "darker colors", just BLACK was a color of power.
Also, I don't know of any foreigners that were depicted as black except Nubians but this was done as conventional stereotype that southerners are jet-black (dark-skinned) [although there ARE exceptions].
Actually "Nubians", as we've discussed many times, have not always been depicted "jet-black", and this was not an exception, but the norm in the Old and Middle Kingdoms. As the Egyptians extended deeper in the Upper Nile Valley, more diversity began to be reflected in the southern regions.
"Nubian" Dancer, TT 78 Mekhitarian, 104 - courtesy of highculture.8m.com
If you can't see the image, then just click on this:
Serving Girls, Tomb of Rekhmire TT.100 (Middle Kingom Painting) Mekhitarian, 51 Another illustration of a black woman with a typical egyptain phenotype. - courtesy of highculture.8m.comPosts: 5964 | Registered: Jan 2005
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^The above are men with the leopard skin loincloths are Nubians NOT Egyptians, yet despite the difference in dress style you cannot tell them apart
Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^^What I meant was Egyptians portrayed Nubians according to stereotype before they ventured further up the Nile (southward).
This is what I was correcting. Many of the "Nubian" iconography before Egyptians ventured further up the Nile was usually of the reddish-brown color convention. I've shown this countless times now.
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Jehuti said: The jet-black statues are Ba statues which represent a spirtual aspect of Tut known as Ba. Ba are depicted as having the sacred color--BLACK.
The color black in traditional Egyptian beliefs is sacred because it represents fertility, rebirth, and ultimately the divine. So of course it was seen as the epitome of positive which is contrary to modern Arabized Egyptian beliefs. This is very reason why The Egyptians named their country Kemet (black country) and themselves Kemau/Kememu/Kemetuwy (black people) etc.
Jehuti also said: The Egyptians called themselves the people of the black (divine) land, and to further express their connection to the divine, would even call themselves 'Kemui'/'Kem-au'(Black People). Again the name has little to do with skin color but was symbolical and spiritual.
I totally agree with this assessment. Man, before I came to this site, I thought I knew alot about Ancient Egypt..... Ya'll are on point over here. If Black is associated with "High Divinity", then it makes absolute sense why they would call the land, "The Black Land", cause the land was divine. I know that there is a difference between Greco-Roman Egypt and Ancient Egypt, but reading a book about "Hermes" during the first centuries of the current era(C.E.), one of the Hermetic texts said(this is from memory, but for the most part guranteed to be right), "......Egypt is the image of heaven." Assuming that there was, to a significant degree, a historical continuity between Ancient Egyptian and Greco-Roman Egyptian civilization, then perhaps the concept of Egypt as the "image of heaven" was a major reason why it was called the "Black(divine) Land"! THIS INTERPRETATION IS SOLID!
Yet and still.....Man, I want to argue a few points, but cha'll cats got the knowledge. This is one place where I have to humble myself and learn. Just remember this though.....The Bible speaks about Ham.......From what I read, Ham means "Black, dark, hot, burning,......and the SUN"(this is what I remember from my readings). We all know that the Nubians and other Africans were in the same family as Ancient Egyptians(Gen. 10). In the Biblical Psalms, the Israelites speak of the land of Ham(Egypt), in memory of the Passover..... Isn't it funny that the name Ham is definitely related to the name of Egypt(Kemet, KMT, etc.). Both words signify Black, dark, etc.
Hence, Egypt, was a land of Black people(not literally Black- shoot I am not literally Black for heavens sake). However, I know that I am stressing a bit because I agree that the concept of race is a modern social conception(to a certain degree). Therefore, I absolutely agree that Egypt was the Black(divine) land. Spirituality was the root of Egyptian civilization. Hence, it's spiritual beliefs, I am sure, took precedence over everything else, including their "tribal" identity.
Real Quick, Ausar said: If the artwork depict ancient Egyptians doing every day common things then most likely they are represented in naturalistic colors. Symbolic colors are only represented in funerary or spirtual ceremonial pratices.
Again, you are on point Ausar. Thanks for the knowledge. Salaam
Posts: 826 | From: U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2006
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Which is most likely derived the very term 'Kemet' which means Black-Land as in the whole country not just soil.
Djehuti, there is general agreement with the deeper meanings [of divinity/sacredness] attached to "black". However, when you initially posted this statement, I questioned it. But, have you ever wondered why?
Well, it is because nowhere in "Kemet" is the term "land" mentioned. More like, if one were to look at it another way, i.e. aside from "black(s)[fem.]", "Kemet" could also infer the "Sacred". Period. No need to invoke "land", where it has not been mentioned.
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The word land is added to this by Eurocentrists in order to create confusion.
It's a simple enough trick and manifestly ridiculous so it is amazing to see how well it works.
Thus, in a thread in which there is picture after picture of Black people, who are referred to as such [Kememu], and are painted with black skin which is also referred to as such [Kem ho], we somehow manage to deflect this truth via the distraction of black 'land' which is neither said nor shown.
quote:Unfortunately none, as that part I just remember being mentioned by someone.
Well.....there you go.
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posted
^^You're right, but make no mistake I do not make 'land' to be what Eurocentrics have been saying-- that land refers to the soil LOL .
I am very aware that Kemet refers to the entire place or country in which the Egyptians live in.
Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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I would like to ask her more about the color symbolism of her people (Oromo), because it is very much the same as the ancient Egyptians.
The Egyptians most venerated gods are called black like Asar (Osiris) Kem-Wer-- Great Black, and the Oromo people call their god Waaqa, Waaqa Guuracha (black god)! I wonder if it is the same for their evil god, because the Egyptians viewed the color red as symbolizing chaos and evil and I remember Queen saying on another thread that they also had a god called Dema who is lighter in color but she didn't specify exactly what color it was.
But again...
Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^^You're right, but make no mistake I do not make 'land' to be what Eurocentrics have been saying-- that land refers to the soil [b]LOL .
I am very aware that Kemet refers to the entire place or country in which the Egyptians live in.
Again, "Kemet" simply means "black". That is the direct and plain translation of the term. "Black" is also "sacred", from the Kemetian standpoint; that is inferred from the term "black". Yes, the term had gained a status of national identity, but its meaning is precise and clear. There is no "land" in the term "Kemet", just as there is no "soil" in the term. This is the message we've been trying to get across. Posts: 5964 | Registered: Jan 2005
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quote:Originally posted by What Box: Also, why do you think they painted the kushites in more human colors when Kemet's nation extended upward (south).
What do you mean?? So Kushites were painted in human colors while the Egyptians were not?!
quote:Is the reason because they were in-contact, they were less generalized?
Were they ever depicted as larger, was their preveous generalization positive?
Again, I don't understand. In the early days Egyptians depictions of Nubians was more generalized but the further south they traveled and the more of Nubia they explored the more they depicted the various Nubians peoples realistically.
The Kushites were just one of various Nubian peoples.
Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Also, why do you think they painted the kushites in more human colors when Kemet's nation extended upward (south).
...to capture the diversity of ethnic groups. You'll notice this in wall-paintings wherein both "brown" and "black" color conventions are used, along with emphasis on distinctive garments worn by the said "southerners". Such artistic efforts on the part of individual artists to capture 'diversity' further up the Nile, make their early appearance at about the Middle Kingdom, when the Kemetians started to extend their dealings deeper up the Nile Valley.
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Boy I sure see that people are STILL stuck on this "Nubian" nonsense. Part of the reason for the color schemes in Egypt was due to the fact that the Egyptian style of painting everyday activities RARELY depicted much variation between peoples involved in those activities. If you look at a row of men or women doing something, they ALL have the EXACT same features. Of course this is because Egyptian art was LARGELY genearalized, intending to give a GENERAL idea of what people looked like from different areas and cultures. In this sense, a group of asiatics ALL had the same features, as did Asians, other Africans and Egyptians. Color was OFTEN used as a way of breaking up this uniformity and providing a stylistic element to the depictions. In many scenes Egyptians and those other Africans, like those from Punt are shown in the SAME color. In a sense, the brown the Egyptians used was much the same as the "flesh colored" crayon in the box of crayola crayons. It was intended to represent a "normal" person, which in this case, was the Egyptian population. It is normal and universal for a group to consider their features and complexions NORMAL and others as ABNORMAL. Hence, modern European dominated concepts of beauty have come to make light skin the NORM whereas other complexions are seen as abnormal. This is purely a universal sentiment of human populations and based on prevalent features common in a certain group. Therefore, to distinguish between themselves and others, the Egyptians sometimes resorted to all sorts of color schemes to reperesent variation, variation in terms of importance, gender, spiritual symbolism, cultural affiliation, friend or foe and other things. This is what must be kept in mind when looking at Egyptian art. When looking at Egyptian art, you must look at the WHOLE scene from the tomb or temple, in order to see the larger THEMES that were created by the artist. In this way, you would have a better understanding of whether the colors used are symbolic or purely artistic convention. In many scenes you will find normal Egyptians painted as BLACK as so-called "Nubians" and in others you will find "Nubians" depicted in the same shades of brown as the Egyptians. One cannot take all the images and colors in Egyptian art LITERALLY, even those that depict realistic human complexions, since it is not always the case that such depictions were intended to be 100% accurate. Face facts, when it comes to people of color, there are literally hundreds of shades of brown that they may come in and no Egyptian artist was going to take the time and try to MIMIC every shade of brown found in Egypt at the time. Therefore, they used genearalized features to reperesent peoples from different populations and general color schemes to amplify or contrast amongst and between people, based on various overall themes, artistic, stylistic, cultural and conventional.
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quote:Originally posted by Horemheb: I guess if they pained a statue green we could assume they were from Mars.
But since most statues were painted in realistic colors such as this bust of tut..
We can assume they were what they were--Africans.
But I guess you don't even bother to read the info but just spout out your usual nonsense like the troll you are, Hore.
Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Where is Queen of the Universe?
I would like to ask her more about the color symbolism of her people (Oromo), because it is very much the same as the ancient Egyptians.
The Egyptians most venerated gods are called black like Asar (Osiris) Kem-Wer-- Great Black, and the Oromo people call their god Waaqa, Waaqa Guuracha (black god)! I wonder if it is the same for their evil god, because the Egyptians viewed the color red as symbolizing chaos and evil and I remember Queen saying on another thread that they also had a god called Dema who is lighter in color but she didn't specify exactly what color it was.
But again...
Queen probably doesn't know much about it. Most Oromo are Muslim or Christian. Probably less than 5% follow the traditional religion.
Color symbolism varies widely regardless of race. For the Afar, the "Red class" is the ruling upper echelon, but the lower class is the "White class," and there is no "Black class."
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I already know that most Oromo no longer practice their traditional religion, but I asked Queen because she says a friend of her Uncle is an elder who knows about all the traditional beliefs.
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The Ancient Egyptians like the Ancient Sumerians/Elamites and the people Mohenjo-Darro/Harrapan were Black people. The focus of AE/African society was the maintenance of cosmic order (ISLAM) through the knowledge of self (I-GOD). The universe was a symbol of the mind and body of the Black Man. The Black Man is the dominant factor within the universe and man’s divine duty was seen as maintaining cosmic order (MAAT) through ritual (culture). Through thousands of years of careful observation and documentation the Black Man created a system of thought that fostered self-divinity. The Ancient African Man was aware of self and his physiological relationship with the greater universe. He was aware of his own personal universe within the universe. Just as the sun rose and set, he was aware of the rising and setting of his personal energy cycle. He correlated the Black mathematical order/pattern (MAAT) of the macrocosm with his own his own personal Blackness (melanin) and established a cult of Blackness that spread to Eurasia as exemplified by the society of Isis Worship. AE society was a civilization that had a standard of established continuity that existed for over 4,000 years. With the focus on self-knowledge this society is hard to understand, even to those who can understand the explicit meaning of the hieroglyphs. It is the deeper African subtext and worldview which blinds many from understanding the signs and symbols of the Original Man.
-------------------- Black Roots. Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Where is Queen of the Universe?
I would like to ask her more about the color symbolism of her people (Oromo), because it is very much the same as the ancient Egyptians.
The Egyptians most venerated gods are called black like Asar (Osiris) Kem-Wer-- Great Black, and the Oromo people call their god Waaqa, Waaqa Guuracha (black god)! I wonder if it is the same for their evil god, because the Egyptians viewed the color red as symbolizing chaos and evil and I remember Queen saying on another thread that they also had a god called Dema who is lighter in color but she didn't specify exactly what color it was.
But again...
Evergreen Writes:
Can the European word "God/god" be translated to mean the same thing in African culture?
Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Evergreen: Evergreen Writes:
The Ancient Egyptians like the Ancient Sumerians/Elamites and the people Mohenjo-Darro/Harrapan were Black people. The focus of AE/African society was the maintenance of cosmic order (ISLAM) through the knowledge of self (I-GOD). The universe was a symbol of the mind and body of the Black Man. The Black Man is the dominant factor within the universe and man’s divine duty was seen as maintaining cosmic order (MAAT) through ritual (culture). Through thousands of years of careful observation and documentation the Black Man created a system of thought that fostered self-divinity. The Ancient African Man was aware of self and his physiological relationship with the greater universe. He was aware of his own personal universe within the universe. Just as the sun rose and set, he was aware of the rising and setting of his personal energy cycle. He correlated the Black mathematical order/pattern (MAAT) of the macrocosm with his own his own personal Blackness (melanin) and established a cult of Blackness that spread to Eurasia as exemplified by the society of Isis Worship. AE society was a civilization that had a standard of established continuity that existed for over 4,000 years. With the focus on self-knowledge this society is hard to understand, even to those who can understand the explicit meaning of the hieroglyphs. It is the deeper African subtext and worldview which blinds many from understanding the signs and symbols of the Original Man.
The Egyptians identified blackness as a sign of creation, nourishment and fulfillment. There were various levels of this symbolism, but the key here is that the blackness also represented the fertile black soil of inner Africa, where humans were born. That is a statement of biology and anthropology. Thus, blackness becomes a powerful symbol of regeneration and growth. But there are many other theological symbols that developed over time in reference to nature, life and the organization of human society, which all have roots in the development and evolution of human societies in Africa. These symbols were to communicate the wisdom that had been passed down for generations to the future, in order to keep the tradition alive.
To put it simply, man as a creature unlike all other creatures, is a special form of created being that has the power to create his own paradise or hell on earth. Therefore, he or she who is aware of this and takes responsibility for it, will realize that their own fate and destiny are in their hands. That is what lies at the root of all this wisdom, which is that life is a blessing and we should make the best of it as we humanly can, black, brown, pink,polka dot or otherwise. Unfortunately, as religion is has developed into a bureaucratic institution of political power, a lot of this message has been corrupted and twisted by the needs of those in search of wealth, power, and glory.
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quote:Can the European word "God/god" be translated to mean the same thing in African culture?
To answer your question requires that you begin by explaining what is the European meaning of God?
Place this in the context of the African Book of the Dead and the Hebrew Bible from which the European - "God" is derived.
Just because there is a word for something in a European language does not prove the assumption, that Europeans have a singular and unique meaning for that term.
After all the function of language/culture is to communicate and share, not separate into isolate-artifices [which is problem I have with the reductive two cradle theory].
You must know this, otherwise you would belive that every-single-word you say, has no meaning in and African context because you say it in English.
There is no 'european' meaning of the word 'god' or black.
They are just words that can be translated faithfully into a multitude of languages.
And if your recourse is to attempt to show two language speakers with two different 'God' concepts, this will not prove anything either.
Since I can easily gather 5 different native English language speakers all using the word GOD and all with radically different meanings.
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posted
^ Good point. God means deity which is a powerful spirit to worship. Such a definition is practically universal.
Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by rasol: [QUOTE]Place this in the context of the African Book of the Dead and the Hebrew Bible from which the European - "God" is derived.
Evergreen Writes:
In terms of the African concept of God we can note several major trends:
1. Man is divine. Within the human family there are hierarchal manifestations of divinity including a Supreme Being (Sacral King macro-level and man over his own "soul" at the micro-level). 2. A divine intelligence which is the supreme architect and withdrawn from the day-to-day activities of the physical realm. 3. Man’s duty is to “be God” through the maintenance of universal balance through proper ritual. 4. Energy matrices or “Spirits” that can impact the physical realm. 5. The ability of man to obtain deeper levels of knowledge through engagement via dream and trance with the “ancestral spirits”
quote:Originally posted by rasol: [QUOTE]To answer your question requires that you begin by explaining what is the European meaning of God?
Evergreen Writes:
The Indo-European word God seems to derive from the Teutonic word Gad/Gud which means Good. This anthropomorphic meaning seems to diverge from the African divine intelligence which is distant, non-anthropomorphic and neither Good or Bad.
Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by rasol: [QUOTE]Place this in the context of the African Book of the Dead and the Hebrew Bible from which the European - "God" is derived.
Evergreen Writes:
In terms of the African concept of God we can note several major trends:
1. Man is divine. Within the human family there are hierarchal manifestations of divinity including a Supreme Being (Sacral King macro-level and man over his own "soul" at the micro-level). 2. A divine intelligence which is the supreme architect and withdrawn from the day-to-day activities of the physical realm. 3. Man’s duty is to “be God” through the maintenance of universal balance through proper ritual. 4. Energy matrices or “Spirits” that can impact the physical realm. 5. The ability of man to obtain deeper levels of knowledge through engagement via dream and trance with the “ancestral spirits”
quote:Originally posted by rasol: [QUOTE]To answer your question requires that you begin by explaining what is the European meaning of God?
Evergreen Writes:
The Indo-European word God seems to derive from the Teutonic word Gad/Gud which means Good. This anthropomorphic meaning seems to diverge from the African divine intelligence which is distant, non-anthropomorphic and neither Good or Bad.
Evergreen Posts:
Introduction to African Religion By John S. Mbiti
"For Africans, the whole of existence is a religious phenomenon; man and woman were deeply religious beings living in a religious universe, there is belief in the hierarchy of spirit forces. First there is God, who is seen to be in and behind .... objects and phenomena: they are his creation, they manifest him, they symbolize his being and presence”
“The invisible world presses hard upon the visible and tangible world."
“God is conceived as a distant, relatively unapproachable deity."
Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Evergreen: "Odin the Good"
Evergreen Writes:
The meaning of Odin/Gutten ("Good") is very different from the African conception of Amun. Amun's true name is unknown, reflective of the African belief that for a thing to exist it must have a name. Amun was/is non-existant, meaning without physical manifestation.
Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
^ Of course the original meanings are different, but what about modern meanings? Are they not the same now through convergent linguisitic evolution?
quote:Evergreen Writes: In terms of the African concept of God we can note several major trends:
1. Man is divine. Within the human family there are hierarchal manifestations of divinity including a Supreme Being (Sacral King macro-level and man over his own "soul" at the micro-level). 2. A divine intelligence which is the supreme architect and withdrawn from the day-to-day activities of the physical realm. 3. Man’s duty is to “be God” through the maintenance of universal balance through proper ritual. 4. Energy matrices or “Spirits” that can impact the physical realm. 5. The ability of man to obtain deeper levels of knowledge through engagement via dream and trance with the “ancestral spirits”
^ Much of what you say is ancient Egyptian beliefs and practices. From divine-king (pharaoh) to maintaining Maat etc.
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ Of course the original meanings are different, but what about modern meanings? Are they not the same now through convergent linguisitic evolution?
Evergreen Writes:
I would say yes, the word "God" has common meaning within modern Africa and Europe.
Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Evergreen: Can the European word "God/god" be translated to mean the same thing in African culture?
Good question, but:
quote:Originally posted by rasol: Just because there is a word for something in a European language does not prove the assumption, that Europeans have a singular and unique meaning for that term.
Just what I was thinking.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ Good point. God means deity which is a powerful spirit to worship. Such a definition is practically universal.
quote:Originally posted by Evergreen: Evergreen Writes:
What is a "spirit"?
quote:Originally posted by Evergreen: 1. Man is divine. Within the human family there are hierarchal manifestations of divinity including a Supreme Being (Sacral King macro-level and man over his own "soul" at the micro-level). 2. A divine intelligence which is the supreme architect and withdrawn from the day-to-day activities of the physical realm. 3. Man’s duty is to “be God” through the maintenance of universal balance through proper ritual. 4. Energy matrices or “Spirits” that can impact the physical realm. 5. The ability of man to obtain deeper levels of knowledge through engagement via dream and trance with the “ancestral spirits”
quote:Originally posted by Evergreen: Can the European word "God/god" be translated to mean the same thing in African culture?
Good question, but:
quote:Originally posted by rasol: Just because there is a word for something in a European language does not prove the assumption, that Europeans have a singular and unique meaning for that term.
Evergreen Writes:
I have addressed this as iy relates to ANICENT Africa. Is there a challenge to my premise? If so, please present it.
Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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Amun's true name is unknown, reflective of the African belief that for a thing to exist it must have a name. Amun was/is non-existant, meaning without physical manifestation.
What etymological source are you basing this on?
Amun does appear in anthropomorphic manifestation and became increasingly associated with the Sun-god Ra, but both Amun and Ra were themselves manifestations of the supreme being, who was either without a visible physical form or else it was unknown.
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quote:Just because there is a word for something in a European language does not prove Europeans have a singular and unique meaning for that term.
Evergreen Writes:
I have addressed this as iy relates to ANICENT Africa. Is there a challenge to my premise? If so, please present it.
Nope, just making a point out. By the way, thankyou for your first post.
quote:Originally posted by Evergreen: Evergreen Writes:
The Ancient Egyptians like the Ancient Sumerians/Elamites and the people Mohenjo-Darro/Harrapan were Black people. The focus of AE/African society was the maintenance of cosmic order (ISLAM) through the knowledge of self (I-GOD). The universe was a symbol of the mind and body of the Black Man. The Black Man is the dominant factor within the universe and man’s divine duty was seen as maintaining cosmic order (MAAT) through ritual (culture). Through thousands of years of careful observation and documentation the Black Man created a system of thought that fostered self-divinity. The Ancient African Man was aware of self and his physiological relationship with the greater universe. He was aware of his own personal universe within the universe. Just as the sun rose and set, he was aware of the rising and setting of his personal energy cycle. He correlated the Black mathematical order/pattern (MAAT) of the macrocosm with his own his own personal Blackness (melanin) and established a cult of Blackness that spread to Eurasia as exemplified by the society of Isis Worship. AE society was a civilization that had a standard of established continuity that existed for over 4,000 years. With the focus on self-knowledge this society is hard to understand, even to those who can understand the explicit meaning of the hieroglyphs. It is the deeper African subtext and worldview which blinds many from understanding the signs and symbols of the Original Man.
quote:Originally posted by Mystery Solver: [QUOTE]What etymological source are you basing this on?
Evergreen Writes:
I can answer your question, but first I would like to understand the relation of your query to my premise? It is not self-apparent. Thank you in advance.
Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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I can answer your question, but first I would like to understand the relation of your query to my premise? It is not self-apparent. Thank you in advance.
If you say this:
Amun was/is non-existant, meaning without physical manifestation. - Evergreen
...and yet, as it turns out, Amun does appear in primary ancient Egyptian sources as one with physical manifestation, not only is it necessary to understand how this suddenly changed in Dynastic Egypt, but also necessary to give us an idea of where Amun precisely originated via the etymological analysis.
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Maybe archeologists of the future will say lighter color was a symbol of power.
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But I guess you don't even bother to read the info but just spout out your usual nonsense like the troll you are, Hore.
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