posted
Below is a description of the Yoruba pantheon of gods (there are many hundreds more).
I have found similarities between certain Orishas and the Egyptian Neteru. For example, the Yoruba 'Orunmila' seems very similar to the Kemetic 'Tehuti'. 'Elegba' (meaning "owner/wielder of whip") seems to be 'Set' or perhaps 'Anubis' (since it relates to death).
I wonder if the posters on this forum can help me match some of them with the individual Egyptian Neter, if they find similarities between them.
Also, I wonder if the Yorubas recieved this understanding of nature (and forces) from the Egyptians or whether it was a concept well known all over Africa even before the prominence of Ancient Egypt.
Is it possible that much of the lost wisdom of Ancient Egypt can still be found in various parts of Africa? The story of ausar's body being found by aset in 14 different places comes to mind...
Cheers people.
The Orishas The orishas are the emissaries of Olodumare or God almighty. They rule over the forces of nature and the endeavors of humanity. They recognise themselves and are recognised through their different numbers and colors which are their marks, and each has their own favorite foods and other things which they like to receive as offerings and gifts. In this way we make our offerings in the manner they are accustomed to, in the way they have always received them, so that they will recognise our offerings and come to our aid.
The orishas are often best understood by observing the forces of nature they rule over. For instance, you can learn much about Oshún and her children by watching the rivers and streams she rules over and observing that though she always heads toward her sister Yemayá (the Sea) she does so on her own circuitous route. Also observe how the babbling brook and the flash flood reflect her changeable moods. As you observe the orishas at work in the world and in your own lives you will gain a better understanding of them and their ways. Yes, they are complex, but no more so than any other living being such as you or I. We are also blessed from time to time in the religion with the opportunity to meet the orishas face to face during a bembé where one or more of their priests will be mounted (see trance possession).
Elegba Elegba (also referred to Eleggua or Elegguá)is the owner of the roads and doors in this world. He is the repository of ashé. The colors red and black or white and black are his and codify his contradictory nature. In particular, Elegba stands at the crossroads of the human and the divine, as he is child-like messenger between the two worlds. In this role, it is not surprising that he has a very close relationship with the orisha of divination, Orunmila. Nothing can be done in either world without his permission. Elegba is always propitiated and always called first before any other orisha as he opens the door between the worlds and opens our roads in life. He recognises himself and is recognised by the numbers 3 and 21.
Ogún Ogún is the god of iron, war and labor. He is the owner of all technology and because this technology shares in his nature, it is almost always used first for war. As Elegba opens the roads, it is Ogún that clears the roads with his machete. He is recognised in the numbers 7 and the colors green and black.
Oshosi Oshosi is the third member of the group known as the Guerreros or Warriors, and is received along with Elegba, Ogún and Osun in order to protect the Guerreros initiate and to open and clear their roads. Oshosi is the hunter and the scout of the orishas and assumes the role of translator for Obatalá with whom he has a very close relationship. His colors are blue and yellow.
Obatalá Obatalá is the kindly father of all the orishas and all humanity. He is also the owner of all heads and the mind. Though it was Olorun who created the universe, it is Obatalá who is the creator of the world and humanity. Obatalá is the source of all that is pure, wise peaceful and compassionate. He has a warrior side though through which he enforces justice in the world. His color is white which is often accented with red, purple and other colors to represent his/her different paths. White is most appropriate for Obatalá as it contains all the colors of the rainbow yet is above them. Obatalá is also the only orisha that has both male and female paths.
Oyá Oyá is the ruler of the winds, the whirlwind and the gates of the cemetery. Her number is nine which recalls her title of Yansá or "Mother of Nine" in which she rules over the egun or dead. She is also known for the colors of maroon, flowery patterns and nine different colors. She is a fierce warrior who rides to war with Shangó (sharing lightning and fire with him) and was once the wife of Ogún.
Oshún Oshún rules over the sweet waters of the world, the brooks, streams and rivers, embodying love, fertility. She also is the one we most often approach to aid us in money matters. She is the youngest of the female orishas but retains the title of Iyalode or great queen. She heals with her sweet waters and with honey which she also owns. She is the femme fatale of the orishas and once saved the world by luring Ogún out of the forests using her feminine wiles. And,in her path or manifestation of Ibú Ikolé she saved the world from draught by flying up to heaven (turning into a vulture in the process). Ikolé means Messenger of the House (of Olodumare). For this reason all who are to be initiated as priests, no matter what orisha rules their head, must go to the river and give account of what they are about to do. She recognises herself in the colors yellow and gold and her number is five. Peacocks and vultures are hers and we use them often to represent her.
Yemayá lives and rules over the seas and lakes. She also rules over maternity in our lives as she is the Mother of All. Her name, a shortened version of Yeyé Omo Eja means "Mother Whose Children are the Fish" to reflect the fact that her children are uncountable. All life started in the sea, the amneotic fluid inside the mother's womb is a form of sea where the embryo must transform and evolve through the form of a fish before becoming a human baby. In this way Yemayá displays herself as truly the mother of all. She, and the root of all the paths or manifestations, Olokun is the source of all riches which she freely gives to her little sister Oshún. She dresses herself in seven skirts of blue and white and like the seas and profound lakes she is deep and unknowable. In her path of Okutti she is the queen of witches carrying within her deep and dark secrets. Her number is seven for the seven seas, her colors are blue and white, and she is most often represented by the fish who are her children.
Shangó Perhaps the most 'popular' of the orishas, Shangó rules over lightning, thunder, fire, the drums and dance. He is a warrior orisha with quick wits, quick temper and is the epitomy of virility. Shangó took the form of the fourth Alafin (supreme king) of Oyó on Earth for a time. He is married to Obba but has relations with Oyá and Oshún. He is an extremely hot blooded and strong-willed orisha that loves all the pleasures of the world: dance, drumming, women, song and eating. He is ocanani with Elegba, meaning they are of one heart. When sees the quickness with which lightning makes short work of a tree or a fire rage through an area, one has witnessed the temper of Shangó in action. Though he traded the Table of Ifá to Orunmila in exchange for the gift of dance, his children have an innate ability for divination. To acknowledge the greatness of this king, all in the religion raise up on the toes of our feet (or rise out our chairs if we are sitting) at the mention of his name. His colors are red and white and he recognises himself in the numbers four and six. He is most often represented by a double headed axe.
Orunmila Orunmila is the orisha of wisdom and divination. He was the only orisha allowed to witness the creation of the universe by Olorun and bears witness to our destinies in the making as well. This is the source of his title of Eleri Ipin or "Witness to Destiny in its Creation". His priests, the babalawos or "Fathers of the Secrets" must devote themselves entirely to the practice of divination and the accompanying arts. Through the Table of Ifá his priests unfold the secrets of the universe and the secrets of the unfolding of our lives. His colors are green and yellow which reflect Orunmila's relationship with Osayín (the secrets of the plant world) and with Oshún, who is his apeteví with whom he has an extremely close relationship. Orunmila is wisdom and Oshún is knowledge, for wisdom without knowledge is useless, and one who has knowledge without wisdom is merely a danger to themselves and others. Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by herukhuti: Below is a description of the Yoruba pantheon of gods (there are many hundreds more).
I have found similarities between certain Orishas and the Egyptian Neteru. For example, the Yoruba 'Orunmila' seems very similar to the Kemetic 'Tehuti'. 'Elegba' (meaning "owner/wielder of whip") seems to be 'Set' or perhaps 'Anubis' (since it relates to death).
FYI, you are not the first one on this forum to point such facts out and creat a thread about it (if only the search engine work). We had another Nigerian or 2 write about this before.
quote:I wonder if the posters on this forum can help me match some of them with the individual Egyptian Neter, if they find similarities between them.
Unfortunately I don't know too much about West African deities. I only know of Olorun and Shango but I can't correlate them with any Kmtwy deities.
What I do know is that Nigerians associate the bird, the ibis with wisdom and oracular powers just like the Egyptians.-- The ibis was the totem of the god of knowledge Djehuti/Tehuti.
And I think the word 'amon' is also found in some West African languages including some Nigerian languages and it also meant hidden or concealed. I don't know if it applied to a deity though.
quote:Also, I wonder if the Yorubas recieved this understanding of nature (and forces) from the Egyptians or whether it was a concept well known all over Africa even before the prominence of Ancient Egypt.
You must be cautious not to attribute such similarities to diffusion from Egypt. There is no evidence of Egyptians having any direct contact with West Africa if any contact at all. Rather, I tend to agree with Ausar that such similarities are instead due to some common origins from the Sahara when it was once green or ultimately with fundamental pan-African elements.
I have already shown you 3 elements that Egyptians shared with other Africans in your Egyptian spirituality thread.
quote:Is it possible that much of the lost wisdom of Ancient Egypt can still be found in various parts of Africa? The story of ausar's body being found by aset in 14 different places comes to mind...
I don't know about wisdom, but again definitely spiritual concepts. Actually the whole bit about Ausar's body being hacked up and spread is a common theme found in myths throughout the world. Such myths describe the sacrifice of an agricultural male.
The Orishas The orishas are the emissaries of Olodumare or God almighty. They rule over the forces of nature and the endeavors of humanity. They recognise themselves and are recognised through their different numbers and colors which are their marks, and each has their own favorite foods and other things which they like to receive as offerings and gifts. In this way we make our offerings in the manner they are accustomed to, in the way they have always received them, so that they will recognise our offerings and come to our aid...
How interesting that the Neter are also represented by colors, numbers, animal totems and other symbols.
Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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The gradations of status recognized by the Yoruba as existing between their deities are as follows:
1. The Supreme Deity - Olorun.
2. The Major Orisas, of whom Esu and Ifa are the most important.
3. The Deified Spirits of Ancestors and other Spirits, of whom Oro, Eluku, Agemo and Egungun are the most important.
4. The Minor Orisas.
====== Olorun <-> Horu ======
Over and above all the other deities classified above and excelling them in power, honor and majesty is the Supreme Deity known as OLORUN. He is credited with omnipresence, omniscience, and omnipotence.
Olorun (pronounced Or-lor-roon) may be divided into two parts, viz., Ol'-orun. The word Orun means "sky," and the syllable Ol is only a reduplication of the initial letter of orun together with the letter "l" generally used to denote ownership or agency.
The word Olorun therefore means "Lord of the sky or of the heavens."
Now the Egyptian word for "sky" or "heavens" is Horu. Before the establishment of the Egyptian dynasties and during the early part of the dynastic period, the name Horu was applied to the Sun-god (the eye of Horu) who was afterwards known as the elder Horus (Horu).
The changes which the word underwent in Egypt are clearly illustrated in the Yoruba language. From Horu is derived the word Oru(n) - the aspirate is elided and the final vowel nasalized -, "sky" or "heavens".
When the word was applied to the sun-god the following words were derived from it:
Oru(n) -> The Sun Oru -> Heat, originally applied to the heat of the sun, and afterwards to heat in general.
It will be remembered that after the establishment of the Old Kingdom the faith of Osiris spread from Abydos in the Delta to other parts of Egypt, and was at one time universal in Egypt. Horu the sun-god was displaced by Horu (Horus) the Younger, son of Osiris. Later on Osiris, who was originally the god of the dead, was translated to the sky. Osiris became "the Lord of the Sky".
[A] The Yoruba beliefs of Omnipotence, Omniscience and Omnipresence may be traced to elements in the Osirian faith.
Olorun is Eleda "Creator"; so also was Osiris.
Olorun is the impartial Judge; men have to give an account of their doings in His judgment hall; men are commended to Him only by uprightness and goodness. All these are relics from the features connected with the Osirian judgment hall.
The importance of the god Thoth in connection with the judgment has its echo in the words O-ti-to, "truth" and e-to, "uprightness" or "justice" derived from his name.
[B] The ideas of the Yorubas about heaven are identical in many respects with those held by the worshippers of Osiris. For example, the Yorubas usually say Ole ti aiye ko gba, ti orun ko, "An idle man the world refuses a place and heaven also rejects." Compare this with the statement that the "Osirian heaven had no place for the idle and inactive."
[C] One of the titles of Osiris is "Lord of Zaddu," Zaddu being regarded as the place of the dead. The very word Zaddu in its modified form of Sadu is in use in Yoruba land, and it indicates the abode of the dead.
[D] One of the great objects of terror in early Yoruba land is what is known as Ohun Didu. Even a courageous animal like the lion is said to dread its approach.
Ohun Didu means "something which pertains to Didu," that is the Didu (or the black wooden image) of Osiris. Idols painted black, resembling the Didu of Osiris exist in Yoruba land.
[E] Another name for the abode of the dead where Osiris ruled was Alu. Here was the abode of the Osirified Bull. The Yoruba word for "bull" is malu, which is a contraction of omo-alu, a native of Alu (literally, a child of Alu). The word malu therefore contains an unmistakable reference to the worship of the Osirified Bull (osiris-apis) at Alu.
[F] One of the titles borne by Olorun is Olodumare. The meaning of the component parts are as follows: Ol'odu-ma-re.
The word Odu means "a chief", "an exalted personage". Olodu is its intensive form, indicating completeness.
Ma-re menas "I shall go" or "I must go"
The meaning of Olodumare then is "the Chief or the Exalted One to whom I must go or return".
Now according to Egyptian belief the highest reward which will be given to the good soul is to be permitted "to see God face to face and to lose itself in its ineffable glory".
A return to Osiris followed by identification with him is the desire of every devout worshipper of Osiris.
Olorun may only be reverenced and is hardly worshipped by the Yorubas, except by certain priests. It must be observed that although the faith of Osiris was widespread, his worship was almost entirely the monopoly of the priestly class.
It is not clear why the name of Osiris was not adopted and retained by the Yorubas as the name of their Supreme Deity. The name Osiris, however, is well known to the Yorubas who use it in the sense which shows that they are conversant with the myth of Osiris. The name survives in its original form of Osiri in the expression "gba osiri re" or "da osiri bo o" which means "to plot against an innocent person with a view to murdering him".
The conception of Esu involves a dualism in which Esu, the supreme power of evil, stands in opposition to Olorun, the most beneficent deity.
With the transference of worship from Olorun to the lesser deities, the antagonism is also transferred to these deities or Orisas.
The Yoruba saying "Esu ni ota orisa", "Esu is the enemy of Orisa" supports this.
Ancient Egyptian religion contains a dualism between Osiris and Set. "Osiris is the good power both morally and in the sphere of outward nature while Set is the embodiment of all that Egyptian regards as evil."
Just as the Yorubas say that "Esu is the enemy of Orisa" so writers on Ancient Egyptian Religion always say that "Set is the enemy of Osiris".
The opposition existed originally between the elder Horus and then between Osiris, and subsequently between the younger Horus on the one hand, and Set on the other hand.
There are three forms of the term orisa: "orisa", "oyisa" and "orise". The word "orisa" may be divided into two parts, ori and sa.
The first part is a modified form of Horu. For example the Egyptian god Horus-Bakhu "the god of the mountain" of the East, survives in Yoruba as Orisa-Beku, signifying "the god of the mountain".
The second part of the word, "se", is derived from Set (the final consonant is elided; this is customary in Yoruba language). The other form "sa" (pronounced 'sha') is the animal representative of Set.
The word ori-sa or ori-se, is therefore a modified form of the word "Horus-Set", the name of a double deity whose worship existed for centuries in Ancient Egypt.
It will be remembered that the double worship of Horus-Set came into existence when the crowns of the two kingdoms were united. Prior to the unification, Horus had become the title or part of the title of the deities worshipped in Southern Egypt, while Set the representative of the North, was widely worshipped there, but was regarded as the enemy of Horus.
The Yoruba migrated from one or more of certain districts in Ancient Egypt where the double worship of Horus-Set persisted.
Further evidence in support of the identification of Esu with Set is supplied by the fact that Esu is represented by a stone. Set was also represented by a stone. Esu is also represented by pillars; so also was Set.
According to Egyptian mythology there was a god named Shu who came forth from the primeval waters. He forcibly separated Sibu, the god of the earth, from Nuit, the goddess of the starry sky. He thus became the god of the space between earth and sky. His representation is that of a god in a kneeling posture holding up the sky with both hands. Later on he became fused with Ra the sun-god, and thus became a sun-god. As a sun-god he was regarded as a beneficent deity and an impersonation of power. He was the life-giver, "The principle which animates matter". Through his benign influence, righteousness and truth reign.
At a later period, however, greater attention was paid to the scorching heat emanating from him than to the animating effect of his rays.
He thus became, as the god of the scorching sun-heat, the dread sun-god, most closely allied to Set; and the ass, the animal of Set, which is also called Shu, appears to have belonged to him as well.
The above considerations show that Shu is regarded both as a benevolent and as a malevolent deity.
The conception of Esu is a fusion of the conception of Set and that of Shu. The Yoruba word "su" (pronounced shu) means "to stretch out over something" and hence "to cover up, to darken".
For example, the Yoruba expression, "Orun su" means "the sky is covered up", that is, with clouds; in other words, clouds have stretched out over the sky. The Yoruba verb meaning "to fall" is "su-bu" (shu-bu), that is, stretch out over or cover up the place (bu - a place, both in Ancient Egyptian language and in Yoruba).
The Yoruba deity thus derives its name and character both from Set, the enemy of Osiris, and from Shu, the sun-god, originally regarded as a beneficent deity and afterwards as the dreaded sun-god closely allied to Set. The reason why Esu is credited with the opposite qualities of beneficence and malevolence thus becomes clear. His beneficence and malevolence are traceable to the conception of Shu, whilst his malevolence is also traceable to Set.
The origin and meaning of Elegbera or Elegbara can be explained when it is remembered that the Shu became a sun-god by being fused into the body of Ra. Ra is known by two other names. As he himself says: "I am Khepera in the morning, Ra at noon, and Tum in the evening". The name of Khepera was also applied to Shu. As a result of this, Elegbera, the alternative name for Esu, is derived from Khepera. Every consonant must have its own vowel in Yoruba, Kh in Khepera is therefore elided, leaving epera. The labial sound p does not exist in Yoruba, p is changed to gb, and the word becomes egbera. To signify fullness or completeness, the initial vowel is reduplicated with an l to give El'egbera
==================== Oba'ufon or Obalufon <-> Typhon ====================
Obalufon II Mask, 11th-12th century., Copper.
This deity has been described as "the god of a prosperous empire", "the god of the peace of the kingdom", or "the Lord of Speech".
Oba'ufon has two parts.
Oba means "king" from Egyptian word "ba", which means "a soul" the king being regarded as the incarnate soul of the people.
'ufon or lufon comes from Typhon. The name Typhon must have been obtained by the Greeks from the Phoenicians, who identified Set with Ziphon, the god of storms. When the word was adopted by the Yorubas the initial consonant letter was elided in keeping with the rule that ebery noun in Yoruba must begin with a vowel.
The compound word Oba'ufon or Obalufon (since the placing of two vowels together is unusual in Yoruba, the letter l is inserted for euphony) is therefore another name for Esu and is derived from Typhon the Grecian name for Set or Sut. Obalufon possesses considerable power ("agbara" in Yoruba) because he is the same god as Set or Shu, who is regarded as an impersonation of power and who has been identified with Esu. During the last century in Yoruba land he was often propitiated with human sacrifices.
Human sacrifices were also linked with the name of Typhon in Ancient Egypt. According to Plutarch, "In Eileithapolis they used to burn living men to ashes ... calling them Typhoneian; and the ashes they winnowed away scattered. This, however, was done publicly and at on special time".
=== Ifa - the god of divination <-> Nefer ===
Derived directly from "nefer", the title of Osiris. Again, every Yoruba noun begins with a vowel. The initial consonant of a noun borrowed from another language either receives a vowel-prefix or is dropped if it is a weak nasal consonant.
nefer becomes 'efer or "ifa" since the sound "er" does not exist in Yoruba, and an "e" sound is represented by "i" in Yoruba.
The name Obatala may be divided into three parts, namely, Oba-ti-ala.
Oba means king
ti means "of" or "pertaining to"
ala means "a boundary"
Obatala was formerly a Nile god. The word ala is a modified form of Iatur-au, Iaur-au the Ancient Egyptian name for the Nile. The Ancient Egyptian word becomes Iaro, Ialo in Coptic. Timon, the mathematician, used the very word ala in designating the sources of the Nile which he called Phi-ala, phi being the masculine article in Ancient Egyptian language, and ala being a modified form of Ialo.
Obatala then means "the King of the Nile" in a literal sense and "a Nile god" in a religious sense.
Obatala has been described as "the potter" (Orisa-popo, alamorere), and "Father Greybeard" (Obaba arugbo). The prototype of Obatala is undoubtedly Khnum, who was given titles identical with or similar to those of Obatala, in Egyptian mythology.
======= Oduduwa - Odu-dua <-> Mut =======
One of our mothers, an elderly priestess of the goddess Odua, Egbado-Yoruba
Odu - "exalted personage" Dua - "the other world" from Ancient Egyptian word dua-t
Oduduwa means "Mistress of the Other World".
Another name of Oduduwa is Yemeu-u or Yemuhu which means "the living Mut" or "Mother Mut".
Ye is a West African word that means "the living one" or "Mother".
meu-u or muhu is a modified form of "Mut". The letter t is often dropped in Yoruba.
===== Sango - Jakuta <-> Ptah ===== Also known as Jakuta, "The Stone Thrower" or "The Fighter with Stone".
Ja-ku-ta means "the living soul (Khu) of Ptah". The Egyptian god Ptah was regarded as incorporate in a stone. The Yoruba word for stone is O-ku-ta, "the soul of Ptah".
==== Ogun <-> Khu ==== O-gu(n) is a modified form of the Egyptian word Khu. Horus, the patron god of several nomes in Ancient Egypt, was known by his worshippers as Khu. Ogun and Horus are both gods of iron and of war, the patron god of hunters and blacksmiths.
Horus has been identified with Nin-ip, the Babylonian sun-god of iron. Yoruba word for iron is i-rin, derived from Nin. Again the rule that every Yoruba word must begin with a vowel applies. Also the letter "r" is often substituted for the letter "n" in Yoruba and some other West African languages.
========= O-l'-o-sa, "Owner of the lagoon". Sa in Ancient Egyptian language means a pond, a lake.
============ O-l'-o-ku(n), "Owner of the sea".Khu (Ancient Egyptian)== soul. Oku(n) is the Yoruba word for the sea, regarded as the origin of the watery vapor resembling the soul (Khu) of man.
===== Da-da comes from Da, name of the Egyptian lion-god.
======= O-shu(n), from Shu, Ancient Egyptian god.
========== Aje Saluga, "The Living one of Salug", that is, the God of (Wealth) of Salug.
Read:
"The Religion of the Yorubas" by J. Olumide Lucas "Religion of Ancient Egypt" by A. H. Sayce "The Opening Up of Africa" by H. H. Johnston
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^^And I can confirm that the English translations he gives for the Yoruba words are accurate since I speak the Yoruba language fluently.
Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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Ade, thanks for enlighting us about the connection between the Orishas and Neteru. You should contribute more since you command a great deal of ledge of both the neteru and the Orishas.
I do have a few questions about some statements you made. Some of the information you gave I have not come across during my reserch.
Such as the following:
Ade said:
quote:Now the Egyptian word for "sky" or "heavens" is Horu. Before the establishment of the Egyptian dynasties and during the early part of the dynastic period, the name Horu was applied to the Sun-god (the eye of Horu) who was afterwards known as the elder Horus (Horu)
I had never heard of Heru associated with a sun deity,nor have I heard Heru meant sky in ancinet Kmt. Is the reference for this in any of the books you cited. Do the books give exact translations or external sources for this claim?
quote:It will be remembered that after the establishment of the Old Kingdom the faith of Osiris spread from Abydos in the Delta to other parts of Egypt, and was at one time universal in Egypt. Horu the sun-god was displaced by Horu (Horus) the Younger, son of Osiris. Later on Osiris, who was originally the god of the dead, was translated to the sky. Osiris became "the Lord of the Sky".
Do you mean Osiris[Ausar/Wsir] started off in the Delta and spread to Abydos and then to all over Egypt? From sources I read Osiris[Ausar/Wsir] first started off as a deity from the Delta and then spread across Egypt to Abydos and beyond. Didn't Osiris also replace a deity in Abydos[Abutu] that was known as a underworld deity? Can you explain to me more about the title Lord of the sky?
quote:Now according to Egyptian belief the highest reward which will be given to the good soul is to be permitted "to see God face to face and to lose itself in its ineffable glory"
I thought it was also to live for enternity in the field of Iru?
quote:It is not clear why the name of Osiris was not adopted and retained by the Yorubas as the name of their Supreme Deity. The name Osiris, however, is well known to the Yorubas who use it in the sense which shows that they are conversant with the myth of Osiris. The name survives in its original form of Osiri in the expression "gba osiri re" or "da osiri bo o" which means "to plot against an innocent person with a view to murdering him"
3
One problem is that Osiris is a Greek word for the neteru of Ausar/Wsir. How would you explain the Greek translation being known instead of the Kemetian one such as Ausar/wsir etc?
The conception of Esu involves a dualism in which Esu, the supreme power of evil, stands in opposition to Olorun, the most beneficent deity.
With the transference of worship from Olorun to the lesser deities, the antagonism is also transferred to these deities or Orisas.
The Yoruba saying "Esu ni ota orisa", "Esu is the enemy of Orisa" supports this.
Ancient Egyptian religion contains a dualism between Osiris and Set. "Osiris is the good power both morally and in the sphere of outward nature while Set is the embodiment of all that Egyptian regards as evil."
Just as the Yorubas say that "Esu is the enemy of Orisa" so writers on Ancient Egyptian Religion always say that "Set is the enemy of Osiris".
The opposition existed originally between the elder Horus and then between Osiris, and subsequently between the younger Horus on the one hand, and Set on the other hand/quote]
Can we justifably call either Set or Eshu evil? Many using the Judeo-Christian sense try to define Set or Eshu as such but they are really trickster deities. Set is not always seen as an enemy and is one of the only ones that can slay the serpent of Apep[ignorance]. I definately agree that Eshu and Set corerespond to each other perfectly.
[quote] It will be remembered that the double worship of Horus-Set came into existence when the crowns of the two kingdoms were united. Prior to the unification, Horus had become the title or part of the title of the deities worshipped in Southern Egypt, while Set the representative of the North, was widely worshipped there, but was regarded as the enemy of Horus
Most sources I read place Set in the south in a place known as Ombos. Not certain which area Heru was originally identified other than Heru became the neteru representive of the per-aa.
Thanks for the information.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Hi Ausar, I really appreciate your response and will try my best with my answers to your questions.
Ade said:
quote:Now the Egyptian word for "sky" or "heavens" is Horu. Before the establishment of the Egyptian dynasties and during the early part of the dynastic period, the name Horu was applied to the Sun-god (the eye of Horu) who was afterwards known as the elder Horus (Horu)
ausar said:
quote:I had never heard of Heru associated with a sun deity,nor have I heard Heru meant sky in ancinet Kmt. Is the reference for this in any of the books you cited. Do the books give exact translations or external sources for this claim?
My main source is "The Religion of the Yorubas" by J. Olumide Lucas. He references the other books I have listed and also "History of Religions" by G.F. Moore, Vol. I, p. 151. where there is a reference to Osiris as "the Lord of the Sky".
The reference for the paragraph on Horu is Lucas' book. I checked around and found this, which seems to support Lucas: Horus reference (it however does not address whether Horu means "sky").
Ade said:
quote:It will be remembered that after the establishment of the Old Kingdom the faith of Osiris spread from Abydos in the Delta to other parts of Egypt, and was at one time universal in Egypt. Horu the sun-god was displaced by Horu (Horus) the Younger, son of Osiris. Later on Osiris, who was originally the god of the dead, was translated to the sky. Osiris became "the Lord of the Sky".
ausar said:
quote: Do you mean Osiris[Ausar/Wsir] started off in the Delta and spread to Abydos and then to all over Egypt? From sources I read Osiris[Ausar/Wsir] first started off as a deity from the Delta and then spread across Egypt to Abydos and beyond. Didn't Osiris also replace a deity in Abydos[Abutu] that was known as a underworld deity? Can you explain to me more about the title Lord of the sky?
You are correct about this Ausar. I have the reference for Osiris' "Lord of the Sky" title in my previous answer.Osisris apparently acquired this title "Lord of the Sky" upon transference of the Osirian heaven from daddu to the sky and the fusion of the Osirian and the solar faiths was effected.
Ade said:
quote:Now according to Egyptian belief the highest reward which will be given to the good soul is to be permitted "to see God face to face and to lose itself in its ineffable glory"
Ausar said:
quote: I thought it was also to live for enternity in the field of Iru?
You're correct about that Ausar. I've read that from the New Kingdom (about 1550-1070 BC) onward, the deceased was expected to take part in the maintenance of the 'Field of Reeds,' where he or she would live for eternity. In addition to Lucas' book, I have read in other places that the good soul which has listened in life to the voice of the divine intelligence obtains after death its reward. On completion of it's education in the other world, it is permitted to see God face to face and lose itself in His ineffable glory. Good Soul's Destiny see last two paragraphs
Ade said:
quote:It is not clear why the name of Osiris was not adopted and retained by the Yorubas as the name of their Supreme Deity. The name Osiris, however, is well known to the Yorubas who use it in the sense which shows that they are conversant with the myth of Osiris. The name survives in its original form of Osiri in the expression "gba osiri re" or "da osiri bo o" which means "to plot against an innocent person with a view to murdering him"
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Ausar said:
quote:One problem is that Osiris is a Greek word for the neteru of Ausar/Wsir. How would you explain the Greek translation being known instead of the Kemetian one such as Ausar/wsir etc?
I think the fact that mainly the Greek names for the neteru are known/used by the Yoruba would place them in Egypt at or after Greek rule in AE. Do you know if the African and Greek names were used interchangeably?
Ade said:
quote: It will be remembered that the double worship of Horus-Set came into existence when the crowns of the two kingdoms were united. Prior to the unification, Horus had become the title or part of the title of the deities worshipped in Southern Egypt, while Set the representative of the North, was widely worshipped there, but was regarded as the enemy of Horus
Ausar said:
quote: Most sources I read place Set in the south in a place known as Ombos. Not certain which area Heru was originally identified other than Heru became the neteru representive of the per-aa.
I believe this is in reference to the demonising of Set during the overthrow of the Hyksos. The foreign rulers had chosen Set as their favorite god.
posted
Ade, have you ever been able to make use of the Ifa divination system? Do you have any experience of its validity?
Ifa was banned in my household when I was growing up because of our adopted religion (Christianity) so it is very much a mystery to me.
Also, is anyone aware of a similar divination system from Ancient Egypt that I can get access to?
Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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Impressive findings, Ade. Although, I do warn about postulating an actual direct or even genetic relationship between these Yoruba gods and those of Egypt.
quote:The gradations of status recognized by the Yoruba as existing between their deities are as follows:
1. The Supreme Deity - Olorun.
2. The Major Orisas, of whom Esu and Ifa are the most important.
3. The Deified Spirits of Ancestors and other Spirits, of whom Oro, Eluku, Agemo and Egungun are the most important.
4. The Minor Orisas.
Yes this does correspond to the Egyptian hierarchy of deities with a supreme deity like Ra on top and lesser ones beneath him.
quote:Olorun <-> Horu ======
Over and above all the other deities classified above and excelling them in power, honor and majesty is the Supreme Deity known as OLORUN. He is credited with omnipresence, omniscience, and omnipotence.
Olorun (pronounced Or-lor-roon) may be divided into two parts, viz., Ol'-orun. The word Orun means "sky," and the syllable Ol is only a reduplication of the initial letter of orun together with the letter "l" generally used to denote ownership or agency.
The word Olorun therefore means "Lord of the sky or of the heavens."
Now the Egyptian word for "sky" or "heavens" is Horu. Before the establishment of the Egyptian dynasties and during the early part of the dynastic period, the name Horu was applied to the Sun-god (the eye of Horu) who was afterwards known as the elder Horus (Horu).
The changes which the word underwent in Egypt are clearly illustrated in the Yoruba language. From Horu is derived the word Oru(n) - the aspirate is elided and the final vowel nasalized -, "sky" or "heavens".
When the word was applied to the sun-god the following words were derived from it:
Oru(n) -> The Sun Oru -> Heat, originally applied to the heat of the sun, and afterwards to heat in general.
It will be remembered that after the establishment of the Old Kingdom the faith of Osiris spread from Abydos in the Delta to other parts of Egypt, and was at one time universal in Egypt. Horu the sun-god was displaced by Horu (Horus) the Younger, son of Osiris. Later on Osiris, who was originally the god of the dead, was translated to the sky. Osiris became "the Lord of the Sky".
[A] The Yoruba beliefs of Omnipotence, Omniscience and Omnipresence may be traced to elements in the Osirian faith.
If anything, Olorun seems to correspond more with the Egyptian god Amun. Amun was also a sky god who was associated with Omniscience and Omnipresence as 'Amun' means 'hidden' in Mdu Neter.
quote:Olorun is Eleda "Creator"; so also was Osiris.
Olorun is the impartial Judge; men have to give an account of their doings in His judgment hall; men are commended to Him only by uprightness and goodness. All these are relics from the features connected with the Osirian judgment hall.
The importance of the god Thoth in connection with the judgment has its echo in the words O-ti-to, "truth" and e-to, "uprightness" or "justice" derived from his name.
[B] The ideas of the Yorubas about heaven are identical in many respects with those held by the worshippers of Osiris. For example, the Yorubas usually say Ole ti aiye ko gba, ti orun ko, "An idle man the world refuses a place and heaven also rejects." Compare this with the statement that the "Osirian heaven had no place for the idle and inactive."
Actually, Osiris seems to correspond with fertility and particularly with agriculture than overall creation.
quote:[C] One of the titles of Osiris is "Lord of Zaddu," Zaddu being regarded as the place of the dead. The very word Zaddu in its modified form of Sadu is in use in Yoruba land, and it indicates the abode of the dead.
[D] One of the great objects of terror in early Yoruba land is what is known as Ohun Didu. Even a courageous animal like the lion is said to dread its approach.
Ohun Didu means "something which pertains to Didu," that is the Didu (or the black wooden image) of Osiris. Idols painted black, resembling the Didu of Osiris exist in Yoruba land.
Black was a sacred color which meant re-birth and renewal and was the color of the gods as well as the spiritual aspect known as 'ba' among mortals.
quote:[E] Another name for the abode of the dead where Osiris ruled was Alu. Here was the abode of the Osirified Bull. The Yoruba word for "bull" is malu, which is a contraction of omo-alu, a native of Alu (literally, a child of Alu). The word malu therefore contains an unmistakable reference to the worship of the Osirified Bull (osiris-apis) at Alu.
[F] One of the titles borne by Olorun is Olodumare. The meaning of the component parts are as follows: Ol'odu-ma-re.
The word Odu means "a chief", "an exalted personage". Olodu is its intensive form, indicating completeness.
Ma-re menas "I shall go" or "I must go"
The meaning of Olodumare then is "the Chief or the Exalted One to whom I must go or return".
Now according to Egyptian belief the highest reward which will be given to the good soul is to be permitted "to see God face to face and to lose itself in its ineffable glory".
A return to Osiris followed by identification with him is the desire of every devout worshipper of Osiris.
Olorun may only be reverenced and is hardly worshipped by the Yorubas, except by certain priests. It must be observed that although the faith of Osiris was widespread, his worship was almost entirely the monopoly of the priestly class.
The bull is an animal widely venerated in many parts of the world as a symbol of fertility and virility. The I agree that the cult of Osiris was pretty much a form of Christianity in which the believers were offered salvation after death.
quote:It is not clear why the name of Osiris was not adopted and retained by the Yorubas as the name of their Supreme Deity. The name Osiris, however, is well known to the Yorubas who use it in the sense which shows that they are conversant with the myth of Osiris. The name survives in its original form of Osiri in the expression "gba osiri re" or "da osiri bo o" which means "to plot against an innocent person with a view to murdering him".
The name of Osiris was never adopted by Yorubas because his cult has never reached West Africa. Again, I believe the problem with some Africans is they use similarities to prove a sort of diffusion theory.
The conception of Esu involves a dualism in which Esu, the supreme power of evil, stands in opposition to Olorun, the most beneficent deity.
With the transference of worship from Olorun to the lesser deities, the antagonism is also transferred to these deities or Orisas.
The Yoruba saying "Esu ni ota orisa", "Esu is the enemy of Orisa" supports this.
Ancient Egyptian religion contains a dualism between Osiris and Set. "Osiris is the good power both morally and in the sphere of outward nature while Set is the embodiment of all that Egyptian regards as evil."
Just as the Yorubas say that "Esu is the enemy of Orisa" so writers on Ancient Egyptian Religion always say that "Set is the enemy of Osiris".
The opposition existed originally between the elder Horus and then between Osiris, and subsequently between the younger Horus on the one hand, and Set on the other hand.
There are three forms of the term orisa: "orisa", "oyisa" and "orise". The word "orisa" may be divided into two parts, ori and sa.
The first part is a modified form of Horu. For example the Egyptian god Horus-Bakhu "the god of the mountain" of the East, survives in Yoruba as Orisa-Beku, signifying "the god of the mountain".
The second part of the word, "se", is derived from Set (the final consonant is elided; this is customary in Yoruba language). The other form "sa" (pronounced 'sha') is the animal representative of Set.
The word ori-sa or ori-se, is therefore a modified form of the word "Horus-Set", the name of a double deity whose worship existed for centuries in Ancient Egypt.
It will be remembered that the double worship of Horus-Set came into existence when the crowns of the two kingdoms were united. Prior to the unification, Horus had become the title or part of the title of the deities worshipped in Southern Egypt, while Set the representative of the North, was widely worshipped there, but was regarded as the enemy of Horus.
The Yoruba migrated from one or more of certain districts in Ancient Egypt where the double worship of Horus-Set persisted.
Further evidence in support of the identification of Esu with Set is supplied by the fact that Esu is represented by a stone. Set was also represented by a stone. Esu is also represented by pillars; so also was Set.
I agree that Esu may be identified with Set, but remember that Set was not always concieved as being evil. Set was a beneficient god who served his great grandfather, Ra.
quote:According to Egyptian mythology there was a god named Shu who came forth from the primeval waters. He forcibly separated Sibu, the god of the earth, from Nuit, the goddess of the starry sky. He thus became the god of the space between earth and sky. His representation is that of a god in a kneeling posture holding up the sky with both hands.
Later on he became fused with Ra the sun-god, and thus became a sun-god. As a sun-god he was regarded as a beneficent deity and an impersonation of power. He was the life-giver, "The principle which animates matter". Through his benign influence, righteousness and truth reign.
At a later period, however, greater attention was paid to the scorching heat emanating from him than to the animating effect of his rays.
He thus became, as the god of the scorching sun-heat, the dread sun-god, most closely allied to Set; and the ass, the animal of Set, which is also called Shu, appears to have belonged to him as well.
The above considerations show that Shu is regarded both as a benevolent and as a malevolent deity.
The conception of Esu is a fusion of the conception of Set and that of Shu. The Yoruba word "su" (pronounced shu) means "to stretch out over something" and hence "to cover up, to darken".
For example, the Yoruba expression, "Orun su" means "the sky is covered up", that is, with clouds; in other words, clouds have stretched out over the sky. The Yoruba verb meaning "to fall" is "su-bu" (shu-bu), that is, stretch out over or cover up the place (bu - a place, both in Ancient Egyptian language and in Yoruba).
The Yoruba deity thus derives its name and character both from Set, the enemy of Osiris, and from Shu, the sun-god, originally regarded as a beneficent deity and afterwards as the dreaded sun-god closely allied to Set. The reason why Esu is credited with the opposite qualities of beneficence and malevolence thus becomes clear. His beneficence and malevolence are traceable to the conception of Shu, whilst his malevolence is also traceable to Set.
The origin and meaning of Elegbera or Elegbara can be explained when it is remembered that the Shu became a sun-god by being fused into the body of Ra. Ra is known by two other names. As he himself says: "I am Khepera in the morning, Ra at noon, and Tum in the evening". The name of Khepera was also applied to Shu. As a result of this, Elegbera, the alternative name for Esu, is derived from Khepera. Every consonant must have its own vowel in Yoruba, Kh in Khepera is therefore elided, leaving epera. The labial sound p does not exist in Yoruba, p is changed to gb, and the word becomes egbera. To signify fullness or completeness, the initial vowel is reduplicated with an l to give El'egbera
Again, loose and unsubstantial linguistic correlation.
quote:==================== Oba'ufon or Obalufon <-> Typhon ====================
This deity has been described as "the god of a prosperous empire", "the god of the peace of the kingdom", or "the Lord of Speech".
Oba'ufon has two parts.
Oba means "king" from Egyptian word "ba", which means "a soul" the king being regarded as the incarnate soul of the people.
'ufon or lufon comes from Typhon. The name Typhon must have been obtained by the Greeks from the Phoenicians, who identified Set with Ziphon, the god of storms. When the word was adopted by the Yorubas the initial consonant letter was elided in keeping with the rule that ebery noun in Yoruba must begin with a vowel.
The compound word Oba'ufon or Obalufon (since the placing of two vowels together is unusual in Yoruba, the letter l is inserted for euphony) is therefore another name for Esu and is derived from Typhon the Grecian name for Set or Sut. Obalufon possesses considerable power ("agbara" in Yoruba) because he is the same god as Set or Shu, who is regarded as an impersonation of power and who has been identified with Esu. During the last century in Yoruba land he was often propitiated with human sacrifices.
Human sacrifices were also linked with the name of Typhon in Ancient Egypt. According to Plutarch, "In Eileithapolis they used to burn living men to ashes ... calling them Typhoneian; and the ashes they winnowed away scattered. This, however, was done publicly and at on special time".
So now you assume a connection to Pheonicians??
quote:=== Ifa - the god of divination <-> Nefer ===
Derived directly from "nefer", the title of Osiris. Again, every Yoruba noun begins with a vowel. The initial consonant of a noun borrowed from another language either receives a vowel-prefix or is dropped if it is a weak nasal consonant.
nefer becomes 'efer or "ifa" since the sound "er" does not exist in Yoruba, and an "e" sound is represented by "i" in Yoruba.
'Nefer' means beautiful or splendid and there are many gods whose names carry that epithet, but again the linguistics seem loose.
The name Obatala may be divided into three parts, namely, Oba-ti-ala.
Oba means king
ti means "of" or "pertaining to"
ala means "a boundary"
Obatala was formerly a Nile god. The word ala is a modified form of Iatur-au, Iaur-au the Ancient Egyptian name for the Nile. The Ancient Egyptian word becomes Iaro, Ialo in Coptic. Timon, the mathematician, used the very word ala in designating the sources of the Nile which he called Phi-ala, phi being the masculine article in Ancient Egyptian language, and ala being a modified form of Ialo.
Obatala then means "the King of the Nile" in a literal sense and "a Nile god" in a religious sense.
Obatala has been described as "the potter" (Orisa-popo, alamorere), and "Father Greybeard" (Obaba arugbo). The prototype of Obatala is undoubtedly Khnum, who was given titles identical with or similar to those of Obatala, in Egyptian mythology.
Again an unsound diffusionist theory.
quote:======= Oduduwa - Odu-dua <-> Mut =======
One of our mothers, an elderly priestess of the goddess Odua, Egbado-Yoruba
Odu - "exalted personage" Dua - "the other world" from Ancient Egyptian word dua-t
Oduduwa means "Mistress of the Other World".
Another name of Oduduwa is Yemeu-u or Yemuhu which means "the living Mut" or "Mother Mut".
Ye is a West African word that means "the living one" or "Mother".
meu-u or muhu is a modified form of "Mut". The letter t is often dropped in Yoruba.
Yes, this seems to be a nice identification.
quote:Sango - Jakuta <-> Ptah ===== Also known as Jakuta, "The Stone Thrower" or "The Fighter with Stone".
Ja-ku-ta means "the living soul (Khu) of Ptah". The Egyptian god Ptah was regarded as incorporate in a stone. The Yoruba word for stone is O-ku-ta, "the soul of Ptah".
You base this identification on only one epithet.
quote:==== Ogun <-> Khu ==== O-gu(n) is a modified form of the Egyptian word Khu. Horus, the patron god of several nomes in Ancient Egypt, was known by his worshippers as Khu. Ogun and Horus are both gods of iron and of war, the patron god of hunters and blacksmiths.
Horus has been identified with Nin-ip, the Babylonian sun-god of iron. Yoruba word for iron is i-rin, derived from Nin. Again the rule that every Yoruba word must begin with a vowel applies. Also the letter "r" is often substituted for the letter "n" in Yoruba and some other West African languages.
========= O-l'-o-sa, "Owner of the lagoon". Sa in Ancient Egyptian language means a pond, a lake.
============ O-l'-o-ku(n), "Owner of the sea".Khu (Ancient Egyptian)== soul. Oku(n) is the Yoruba word for the sea, regarded as the origin of the watery vapor resembling the soul (Khu) of man.
===== Da-da comes from Da, name of the Egyptian lion-god.
======= O-shu(n), from Shu, Ancient Egyptian god.
========== Aje Saluga, "The Living one of Salug", that is, the God of (Wealth) of Salug.
Read:
"The Religion of the Yorubas" by J. Olumide Lucas "Religion of Ancient Egypt" by A. H. Sayce "The Opening Up of Africa" by H. H. Johnston
While it is good to compare similarities between religions like those of Africa, it can be misleading to attribute these similarities to a common origin or diffusion from Egypt alone.
Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by herukhuti: Ade, have you ever been able to make use of the Ifa divination system? Do you have any experience of its validity?
Ifa was banned in my household when I was growing up because of our adopted religion (Christianity) so it is very much a mystery to me.
Also, is anyone aware of a similar divination system from Ancient Egypt that I can get access to?
herukhuti, just like you I don't practice Ifa and wished I knew more about it. The little I know is from what I've learned watching Yoruba plays on Nigerian TV and reading up to trace the roots of Yoruba religious practices.
As far as I know, the equivalent of an Ifa system has not yet been discovered by Egyptologists but several details connected with the cult are similar to, and in most cases, identical with, details in Egyptian culture.
- Several of the titles of Ifa are of AE origin: Oru(n)-mi-la <-> H-oru-m-la or H-or-m-la, or H-or-m-Ra since the liquid letter l often replaces the liquid letter r.
- Each Odu represents a domain (Aat or Ot or Od) and the deity presiding over it.
- The word Odu and ideas associated with it -> Od (Ot), the consonant d receiving a vowel to form a new syllable as is usual in Yoruba.
- The symbols used in recording the result of a divination as given in the odus are AE symbols <-> strokes and circles. These symboals are used to denote numerals as well as for other purposes.
- Most of the words connected with Ifa cult are derived directly from the Aats of Secket-Aaru.
- The names of all the Odus are derived from AE words.
Posts: 20 | Registered: Jan 2005
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quote:Originally posted by herukhuti: Ade, have you ever been able to make use of the Ifa divination system? Do you have any experience of its validity?
Ifa was banned in my household when I was growing up because of our adopted religion (Christianity) so it is very much a mystery to me.
Also, is anyone aware of a similar divination system from Ancient Egypt that I can get access to?
herukhuti, just like you I don't practice Ifa and wished I knew more about it. The little I know is from what I've learned watching Yoruba plays on Nigerian TV and reading up to trace the roots of Yoruba religious practices.
As far as I know, the equivalent of an Ifa system has not yet been discovered by Egyptologists but several details connected with the cult are similar to, and in most cases, identical with, details in Egyptian culture.
Speaking of yoruba plays, if you're in the UK they are available here: NaijaMovies.co.uk
I'm going to Nigeria in december and I'm going to visit Ife (where I'm from) for a few days. If I can escape "the family" for a while, I think I'm going to check out one of those Babalawos' and see what knowledge they can share with me.
Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by herukhuti: Ade, have you ever been able to make use of the Ifa divination system? Do you have any experience of its validity?
Ifa was banned in my household when I was growing up because of our adopted religion (Christianity) so it is very much a mystery to me.
Also, is anyone aware of a similar divination system from Ancient Egypt that I can get access to?
herukhuti, just like you I don't practice Ifa and wished I knew more about it. The little I know is from what I've learned watching Yoruba plays on Nigerian TV and reading up to trace the roots of Yoruba religious practices.
As far as I know, the equivalent of an Ifa system has not yet been discovered by Egyptologists but several details connected with the cult are similar to, and in most cases, identical with, details in Egyptian culture.
- Several of the titles of Ifa are of AE origin: Oru(n)-mi-la <-> H-oru-m-la or H-or-m-la, or H-or-m-Ra since the liquid letter l often replaces the liquid letter r.
- Each Odu represents a domain (Aat or Ot or Od) and the deity presiding over it.
- The word Odu and ideas associated with it -> Od (Ot), the consonant d receiving a vowel to form a new syllable as is usual in Yoruba.
- The symbols used in recording the result of a divination as given in the odus are AE symbols <-> strokes and circles. These symboals are used to denote numerals as well as for other purposes.
- Most of the words connected with Ifa cult are derived directly from the Aats of Secket-Aaru.
- The names of all the Odus are derived from AE words.
Ade, as far as the origin of the Yoruba people is concerned, do you think that 1.) people existed in Yorubaland who then welcomed the "migrating/exiled" Egyptians? or 2.) all Yourba people came from Egypt or 3.) Egyptians invaded and subdued the original inhabitants of Yorubaland and imposed their culture on them?
Or perhaps, as Djehuti mentioned --> We share common ancestors who once lived in the Sahara desert regions? This would mean that all the "systems" common to Africa (championed by Egypt) may have been around for much longer than anything we are aware of today?
Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by herukhuti: Ade, as far as the origin of the Yoruba people is concerned, do you think that 1.) people existed in Yorubaland who then welcomed the "migrating/exiled" Egyptians? or 2.) all Yourba people came from Egypt or 3.) Egyptians invaded and subdued the original inhabitants of Yorubaland and imposed their culture on them?
The above theories are popular among West Africans as well as Egyptians like Mostafa Gadalla, but again *we have no evidence of any direct contact between West Africa and the Nile Valley.* Even if we had evidence of some remote trade relationship, that would still not explain the close parallels in belief systems.
quote:Or perhaps, as Djehuti mentioned --> We share common ancestors who once lived in the Sahara desert regions? This would mean that all the "systems" common to Africa (championed by Egypt) may have been around for much longer than anything we are aware of today?
This has to be the only possible explanation; either that, or an even more prehistoric Africa commonality.
We know for example that the Sahel area today is a kind of large highway between East and West Africa, and that there are modern day groups in the Western Sahel who share certain aspects with the Eastern Sahel (like the 'was' stick). There should be little doubt then that when the Sahara was green there was interaction between these peoples.
Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Thanks for your response Djehuti, I really appreciate the opportunity to learn more about the roots of Yoruba religious beliefs and practices.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: If anything, Olorun seems to correspond more with the Egyptian god Amun. Amun was also a sky god who was associated with Omniscience and Omnipresence as 'Amun' means 'hidden' in Mdu Neter.
Amon is well known in Yoruba. The Yoruba word for hidden is "Amon". Fi pa 'mon means "to hide [an object]". The Yoruba words Mon and Mimon (holy and sacred) are probably derived from Amon. I don't think Olorun can be mistaken for Amon.
Allow me to expand on my earlier description of the attributes Olorun. In addtion to omnipresence, omniscience, and omnipotence,
He is the just and impartial Judge, sometimes meting out judgement on the wicked in this world and certainly bringing all men to judgement in the next world. So is Osiris.
He is Olorun adakedajo, "God, the silent but active Judge." So is Osiris.
He is Olorun Olore, "God the Benefactor". So is Osiris.
He is Olorun Alanu, "The merciful God." The creation of the universe is ascribed to Him. He therefore bears the title of Eleda, "Creator". So is Osiris.
Other titles given to Him are equally significant.
He is Alaye "The Living One," Elemi, "Owner of Spirit," that is, the spirit given to human beings, Oga-ogo "The High One or the Lord of Glory." So is Osiris.
The identity of meaning of Olorun ("Lord of the sky or of the heavens") with the title of Osiris is pretty strong evidence for assuming a connection between the Olorun of the Yorubas and the Egyptian "Lord of Daddu." The conception of Olorun is connected with that of Osiris, the spiritualized Supreme Being dwelling in the heaven beyond human ken.
Note that the Yorubas distinguish bewteen oju orun (sky) and orun (heaven). Olorun is not a "sky god," but as the Lord of all things, he may be described as "the Lord of the Sky."
Please read "Peoples of Southern Nigeria, Vol.II,p.15 by Talbot. Here's an excerpt:
"It is true that, in spite of the contention of writers like Menzies, Huxley and Spencer, there is abundant evidence of the existence of the conception of a Supreme Being among the Yorubas, a Being who at one time appeared to have been identified with Osiris and who corresponds in many important particulars with the 'one and only God' as conceived by the Ancient Egyptians."
Another title given to him is Olodumare, "the Owner of the domain into which I shall return." or "the Chief or the Exalted One to whom I must go or return."
It is generally accepted that the ideas associated with Olorun are NOT due to introduction of Christian or Islamic beliefs.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Actually, Osiris seems to correspond with fertility and particularly with agriculture than overall creation.
Osiris had well over 200 divine names, including Lord of Lords, King of Kings, God of Gods, Resurrection and the Life, Good Shepherd, Eternity and Everlastingness, the god who "made men and women to be born again." The titles I have found ascribed to Osiris are [Fraz.AAO] Lord of All, the Good Being (the most common title), Lord of the Underworld, Lord/King of Eternity, Ruler of the Dead, [Griff.OO] Lord of the West, Great One, [Bud.ERR, 26] "he who takes seat," the Begetter, the Ram, [Bud.ERR, 79] "great Word" (as in, "the word of what cometh into being and what is not" -- a reflection of the ancient idea of the creative power of speech, found likewise in the Greek Logos), "Chief of the Spirits"; [Short.EG, 37] ruler of everlastingness, [Meek.DL, 31] "living god," "God above the gods." All of these are either general titles we would expect to be assigned to any head honcho deity, or else are related to O's command over the underworld.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Black was a sacred color which meant re-birth and renewal and was the color of the gods as well as the spiritual aspect known as 'ba' among mortals.
So close is the connection between Olorun of the Yorubas and Osiris that the Yorubas call themselves and other black persons Enia Didu "People of the Didu," that is, people associated with Didu the black wooden image representative of Osiris in Ancient Egypt.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: The bull is an animal widely venerated in many parts of the world as a symbol of fertility and virility. The I agree that the cult of Osiris was pretty much a form of Christianity in which the believers were offered salvation after death.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: The name of Osiris was never adopted by Yorubas because his cult has never reached West Africa. Again, I believe the problem with some Africans is they use similarities to prove a sort of diffusion theory.
The name of Osiris survives in Yorubaland, it's just not used to address Olorun. Osiri is used in everyday conversation as explained in my original post, the expression "gba osiri re" or "da osiri bo o" which means "to plot against an innocent person with a view to murdering him". This expression is an unmistakable link to the myth of Osiris.
The name also survives in Orisa Osi, " the idol of the god Osiris," a national god of the Yorubas. It was worshipped by Oranyan, the son of Odudua, the mythical founder of the Yoruba race. There is a legend that when Oranyan was setting off for an expedition he gave strict injunction to his locum tenes to "observe the customary worship of the gods Idi and Orisa Osi. The Yorubas therfore regard the worship of Orisa Osi as a national obligation.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: I agree that Esu may be identified with Set, but remember that Set was not always concieved as being evil. Set was a beneficient god who served his great grandfather, Ra.
I think you missed this paragraph that describes Esu's beneficence:
The Yoruba deity thus derives its name and character both from Set, the enemy of Osiris, and from Shu, the sun-god, originally regarded as a beneficent deity and afterwards as the dreaded sun-god closely allied to Set. The reason why Esu is credited with the opposite qualities of beneficence and malevolence thus becomes clear. His beneficence and malevolence are traceable to the conception of Shu, whilst his malevolence is also traceable to Set.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Again, loose and unsubstantial linguistic correlation.
Yoruba is a phonetic language. Every consonant has its vowel (except the nasal n). If two consonants follow one another in a foreign word, a vowel will be inserted between them. In some cases, one of the consonants is dropped.
Here is a subset of Yoruba language rules:
RULE 1: A pure Yoruba noun begins with a vowel, unless it is a noun phrase -> to get Yoruba noun prefix Egyptian noun with vowel, elide last consonant. RULE 2: Yoruba verbs - start with consonant. RULE 3: All syllables in Yoruba are open. RULE 4: "r" or "l" is often substituted for "n".
See if you can derive the Yoruba word for moon from the name of the AE Moon-god using the rules for adopting nouns into Yoruba. A good number of Mdu Neter words will yield the Yoruba equivalent word using these simple rules. About fifty percent of the words in Yoruba can be derived directly from Mdu Neter.
A lot of Yoruba words have virtually identical spellings to AE words, such as: Amon, Apapa, Anubi(s), Kuti, Miri, Amu, Apa, Sua.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: So now you assume a connection to Pheonicians??
Yes connection to Phoenicians via Ancient Egypt. The Greek name of Typhon was known in Egypt. The Greeks ruled Egypt for a while. The Greeks had adopted the Phoenician god Ziphon.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: 'Nefer' means beautiful or splendid and there are many gods whose names carry that epithet, but again the linguistics seem loose.
It is correct that the nefer hieroglph describes the concepts of "goodness" and "beauty". It could also carry the meaning of good fortune, happiness, youth and others. The term Nefer appears with a dozen different positive meanings in AE literature.
The word Ifa is also used in the Yoruba language to denote "a good thing obtained without price, a boon." It is noteworthy that when Ifa is used as an adjective the initial n is retained. For example, when it is attached to the Yoruba word ope it becomes ope nifa; or, iya nifa (female Ifa priest).
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Again an unsound diffusionist theory.
See the word rules above.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: You base this identification on only one epithet.
The Yorubas attach great importance to names; hence they are prone to avoid the use of personal names. This practice leads to the substitution of titles for personal names, especially in the case of distinguished persons and deities. Hence Sango is also known as Jakuta.
In the Old Kingdom one of the goddesses closely associated with Ptah is Sechet(Pasht).She has been described as "the devouring one," "she that kindles fire," and "the goddess of the heavenly fire and of the thunderbolt."
Sango is the Yoruba god of lightning and thunder. he is symbolized as a ram-headed deity and also by a double-headed axe --the bipennis -- known as "the sacred axe of Sango."
Ceremonial Lid, Ife Kingdom, 11th-16th century AD
Ptah was identified with Osiris and Amon who were often depicted as ram-headed deities. At Thebes, Amon was supposed to be incarnate in a ram.
The use of the double-headed axe is noteworthy. Large numbers of the axe exist in Yorubaland, and there is no doubt that it is a survival from AE.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: While it is good to compare similarities between religions like those of Africa, it can be misleading to attribute these similarities to a common origin or diffusion from Egypt alone.
I think it is very important to weed out unsound ideas and theories and appreciate all the questions. Thanks.
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quote:Originally posted by Ade: Amon is well known in Yoruba. The Yoruba word for hidden is "Amon". Fi pa 'mon means "to hide [an object]". The Yoruba words Mon and Mimon (holy and sacred) are probably derived from Amon. I don't think Olorun can be mistaken for Amon.
Yes Indeed...
"Emi Mimon" can be heard in Yoruba churches today, referring to "Holy Spirit".
Also, we have a Yoruba version of "Amen" which is "Amin".
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posted
The Yoruba language is so similar to the Ancient Egyptian language...
So much more to learn...
Ade, is there any proof of Hieroglyphic type writings in Yorubaland I wonder?
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posted
[QUOTE]Originally posted by herukhuti: Ade, as far as the origin of the Yoruba people is concerned, do you think that 1.) people existed in Yorubaland who then welcomed the "migrating/exiled" Egyptians? or 2.) all Yourba people came from Egypt or 3.) Egyptians invaded and subdued the original inhabitants of Yorubaland and imposed their culture on them?
Or perhaps, as Djehuti mentioned --> We share common ancestors who once lived in the Sahara desert regions? This would mean that all the "systems" common to Africa (championed by Egypt) may have been around for much longer than anything we are aware of today?
herukhuti that's a very good question. As you know, according to Yoruba history Oduduwa founded the Yoruba people. Ife had become weakened by Obatala and his Ugho (original inhabitants of Ife) forbearers, Oduduwa arrived from the East and intervened to invigorate Ife.
With military prowess and political wisdom, Oduduwa quickly possessed the land and organized the people into a formidable, cohesive group and civilization.
Oduduwa is one of those West African deities with both masculine and feminine chracteristics.
I believe that after Oduduwa's military success, the Yoruba culture and it's people was formed from the marriage of the autochthonous culture and people and that of new arrivals from the East.
I think this can account for the diverse phenotype of the bronze and terracotta heads of Ife.
quote:Originally posted by herukhuti: Ade, as far as the origin of the Yoruba people is concerned, do you think that 1.) people existed in Yorubaland who then welcomed the "migrating/exiled" Egyptians? or 2.) all Yourba people came from Egypt or 3.) Egyptians invaded and subdued the original inhabitants of Yorubaland and imposed their culture on them?
The above theories are popular among West Africans as well as Egyptians like Mostafa Gadalla, but again *we have no evidence of any direct contact between West Africa and the Nile Valley.* Even if we had evidence of some remote trade relationship, that would still not explain the close parallels in belief systems.
quote:Or perhaps, as Djehuti mentioned --> We share common ancestors who once lived in the Sahara desert regions? This would mean that all the "systems" common to Africa (championed by Egypt) may have been around for much longer than anything we are aware of today?
This has to be the only possible explanation; either that, or an even more prehistoric Africa commonality.
We know for example that the Sahel area today is a kind of large highway between East and West Africa, and that there are modern day groups in the Western Sahel who share certain aspects with the Eastern Sahel (like the 'was' stick). There should be little doubt then that when the Sahara was green there was interaction between these peoples.
It is true we share common ancestors dating back to prehistory. This would however not explain the Greek names adopted into the Yoruba language.
The expression "gba osiri re" or "da osiri bo o" which means "to plot against an innocent person with a view to murdering him" cannot be explained by prehistoric links.
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Once I was chatting with Moustafa Gadalla on his "Ma'at Sophist" forum and he asked me if I noticed the similarities in the words "Yoruba" and "Europa".
Europa was a Phoenician/Greek goddess I think.
The puzzle looms...
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quote:Originally posted by herukhuti: The Yoruba language is so similar to the Ancient Egyptian language...
So much more to learn...
Ade, is there any proof of Hieroglyphic type writings in Yorubaland I wonder?
My reaction too. I know Yoruba and AE belong to different language branches, but there's definitely a relationship.
Do you know about a book called "Edidi", brought back to Ife by Oduduwa on his sojourns on the Nile Valley? It still can't be interpreted. I wonder if this book has some form of hieroglyphics?
I believe the Edidi book is kept in Ife. I would love to see pictures of pages from this book. Don't forget your digital camera when you visit Ife, please!
The Yorubas have a form of communication using symbols called "Aroko". I don't know a lot about it.
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quote:Originally posted by herukhuti: The Yoruba language is so similar to the Ancient Egyptian language...
So much more to learn...
Ade, is there any proof of Hieroglyphic type writings in Yorubaland I wonder?
My reaction too when I first saw the link between the languages. I know Yoruba and AE belong to different language branches, but there's definitely a relationship.
There's a book called "Edidi", brought back to Ife by Oduduwa on his sojourns on the Nile Valley that still can't be interpreted. I wonder if this book has some form of hieroglyphics?
I believe this book is in Ife. I would love to see pictures of the contents of this book. Don't forget your digital camera when you visit Ife, please!
The Yorubas have a form of communication using symbols called "Aroko". I don't know a lot about it.
No doubt I will be taking gazillions of pics if I make it there this christmas.
Do you know where this "Edidi" book might be (University of Ife maybe?)? I sure would love to see it or make some sort of copy or take pics of pages in it. My old man has a lot of influence in Ife politics so I might be able to pull some strings... but we'll see.
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I would like to repeat that the original inhabitants of 'West Afrika' are Twa people called pygmies today. People living in West Afrika today were originally living in East/North and North West Afrika up to the ATLAS Mountians. Kemet was the most populated country in world based off historical sources.
Please take a look at the Herodotus Map:
Historical sources state that Twa or pygmies occupied West Afrika also the history of Akan ethnic groups claim that they found Twa or pygmies when they arrived in their present locations.
Questions:
What is the Yoruba word for eye or eyes? What ethinic group has knowledge of Amen? What is the Yoruba word for Bull? I read that the Yoruba are the ancient inhabitants of Anu or On/ Heliopolis.
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Hi Hotep2U, these are my answers to your questions...
What is the Yoruba word for eye or eyes?
Oju
What ethinic group has knowledge of Amen?
We Yoruba use the word --> Amon.
What is the Yoruba word for Bull? Malu/Ma'alu
I read that the Yoruba are the ancient inhabitants of Anu or On/ Heliopolis.
Did you? Could you please point me to this book/article. I've never heard of this. However, the word "Anu" is used heavily in the Yoruba language. My niece is called "Sha-Anu". I think "Anu" means "mercy" in the Yoruba language.
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Thanks for the reply Herukhuti, well I have seen Amon is on point, though Malu for Bull would be a little different because I think the Kemetic word would be Apis, I think also eyes would be "Ri". I think another good idea is to write the numbers from 1-10 because the Kemenu used a decimal system. Write the Yoruba numbers 1-10.
Here is the information you requested I think you would be a good candidate to evaluate the information.
[QUOTE] History of Ijaws and Neighbors in Southern Nigeria I was reading an article titled “Press release by Ijaws of Egbema Clan: Rejoinder”, and I was particularly interested in sections that dealt with the history of the Ijaws and our neighbours.
It is the duty of historians to investigate and arrive at the truth concerning the history of peoples. In truth the history of the Ijaws and our neighbours the Itsekiris, Urhobos, Binis, Edos, Yorubas and Igbos are intertwined as we go further back in time. And it is because historians have not come to terms with this fact, that people can make claims and counter-claims as to who owns the land, and who arrived in a region first.
In various historical documents that I have sent in to this forum, I have demonstrated that all the ethnic nationalities comprising Southern Nigeria, did not exist as we now know them to be now, 2000 years ago. Most are a product of fusion of ancient people, the Ijaw people being one of the most ancient survivals of the original ancient people that fused with others to give rise to the ethnic nationalities that exist today.
What is meant by the term Autochthonous?
The term “autochthonous” means native, aboriginal, indigeous, original. The available anthropological and archaeological evidence at our disposal makes it clear that the settlement of the Southern West Africa region is a recent event, going back not more than 5000 years. While the Northern part of West Africa, may stretch back to 10000 years, if we take into consideration the Sahara grassland of antiquity.
The so called Proto-Niger-Congo language, of which the Ijo language is classified into, is divided into the following language groups - Kordofanian, which split into Kordofanian and Mande-Congo, which also split into Mande and Atlantic-Congo, which also split into Atlantic, Ijoid, Dogon, and Volta-Congo. Volta-Congo split into North Volta-Congo and Benue Kwa, which split into Kwa and Benue-Congo. Now the Ijoid language split into Ijo and Defaka, while the Benue-Congo split into Yoruba, Igala, Edo and Ibo and some other southern Nigerian languages.
According to the Encyclopedia of Precolonial Africa-Archaeology, History, Language, Cultures and Environment, edited by J O Vogel (1997, p172);
“…The indigenous languages of western Africa belong to three of the four phyla of African languages established by J H Greenberg in 1963: Afro-Asiatic, Nilo-Saharan, and Niger-Congo……Consequently, the homeland of Niger-Congo is normally placed in western Africa, whereas those of Nilo-Saharan languages and Afro-Asiatic are sought farther to the east and northeast respectively. From time to time, suggestions have been made that Nilo-Saharan and Niger-Congo are ultimately related. Recently Roger Blench has proposed that Niger-Congo is simply a branch of Nilo-Saharan, most closely related to the Central Sudanic family of Nilo-Saharan in the centre of the African continent. If this view is correct, Niger-Congo would have originated farther east than is us ually assumed, perhaps to the northwest of the present-day central Sudan. The Congo family, in Sudan, is assumed to have moved eastwards. The other families of Niger-Congo presumably were gradually compressed into West Africa as a result of the desiccation of the Sahara. As Western Africa became more crowded, Adamawa-Ubangi and Bantu expanded southwards into central Africa and later, in the case of Bantu, into eastern and southern Africa….Two relatively small families, Dogon and Ijoid, are thought to have s
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quote: History of Ijaws and Neighbors in Southern Nigeria I was reading an article titled “Press release by Ijaws of Egbema Clan: Rejoinder”, and I was particularly interested in sections that dealt with the history of the Ijaws and our neighbours.
It is the duty of historians to investigate and arrive at the truth concerning the history of peoples. In truth the history of the Ijaws and our neighbours the Itsekiris, Urhobos, Binis, Edos, Yorubas and Igbos are intertwined as we go further back in time. And it is because historians have not come to terms with this fact, that people can make claims and counter-claims as to who owns the land, and who arrived in a region first.
In various historical documents that I have sent in to this forum, I have demonstrated that all the ethnic nationalities comprising Southern Nigeria, did not exist as we now know them to be now, 2000 years ago. Most are a product of fusion of ancient people, the Ijaw people being one of the most ancient survivals of the original ancient people that fused with others to give rise to the ethnic nationalities that exist today.
What is meant by the term Autochthonous?
The term “autochthonous” means native, aboriginal, indigeous, original. The available anthropological and archaeological evidence at our disposal makes it clear that the settlement of the Southern West Africa region is a recent event, going back not more than 5000 years. While the Northern part of West Africa, may stretch back to 10000 years, if we take into consideration the Sahara grassland of antiquity.
The so called Proto-Niger-Congo language, of which the Ijo language is classified into, is divided into the following language groups - Kordofanian, which split into Kordofanian and Mande-Congo, which also split into Mande and Atlantic-Congo, which also split into Atlantic, Ijoid, Dogon, and Volta-Congo. Volta-Congo split into North Volta-Congo and Benue Kwa, which split into Kwa and Benue-Congo. Now the Ijoid language split into Ijo and Defaka, while the Benue-Congo split into Yoruba, Igala, Edo and Ibo and some other southern Nigerian languages.
According to the Encyclopedia of Precolonial Africa-Archaeology, History, Language, Cultures and Environment, edited by J O Vogel (1997, p172);
“…The indigenous languages of western Africa belong to three of the four phyla of African languages established by J H Greenberg in 1963: Afro-Asiatic, Nilo-Saharan, and Niger-Congo……Consequently, the homeland of Niger-Congo is normally placed in western Africa, whereas those of Nilo-Saharan languages and Afro-Asiatic are sought farther to the east and northeast respectively. From time to time, suggestions have been made that Nilo-Saharan and Niger-Congo are ultimately related. Recently Roger Blench has proposed that Niger-Congo is simply a branch of Nilo-Saharan, most closely related to the Central Sudanic family of Nilo-Saharan in the centre of the African continent. If this view is correct, Niger-Congo would have originated farther east than is us ually assumed, perhaps to the northwest of the present-day central Sudan. The Congo family, in Sudan, is assumed to have moved eastwards. The other families of Niger-Congo presumably were gradually compressed into West Africa as a result of the desiccation of the Sahara. As Western Africa became more crowded, Adamawa-Ubangi and Bantu expanded southwards into central Africa and later, in the case of Bantu, into eastern and southern Africa….Two relatively small families, Dogon and Ijoid, are thought to have split off next. Dogon with little internal differentiation, remained on land, south of the bend in the Niger, while Ijoid, with somewhat more internal differentiation into Defaka and the Ijo group, moved down the Niger to its confluence with the Benue and then either directly along the Niger or via the Benue and Cross River to the Niger Delta and associated waterways where it is found today….”[1] If Niger-Congo is a branch of the Nilo-Saharan proto-language, as has been suggested, then it gives credence to the argument that the ancient language differentiation of Africa took place in prehistory in the regions of the Nile-Valley and the Old Sahara grasslands, and not in the vicinity of the Niger-Benue confluence.
The absence of the anatomical remains of early human beings, and the lack of evidence for stone age and bronze age cultures in the West Africa region, rules out any claims by a group of people, to be truly autochones or aboriginal to West Africa. All West African peoples migrated to the area at one time or another, from either North, East or South Africa, as such, West Africa has been peopled at different times by successive waves of migration from East Africa and North Africa/Sahara region respectively.
Taking the combined evidence of language studies, ancestral tradition, anthropology and archaeology, it is certain that by at least 2000 BCE the West Africa region was being peopled. As to who arrived first is of no consequence as the land space is too vast for the first arrivals to lay claim to ownership. By 1000 BCE we have the emergence of the Lake Chad civilisation of Daima and the Nok Culture of the Niger/Benue Confluence. We can also discern a number of ancient peoples who entered the area of the Niger & Benue about the same time. They include the following:
The Ancient Oru (Anu) founders of the Great Nile Valley civilisation complex (and possibly the lake Chad complex); The Ancient Ugbo or Igbo (or Kwa people) who seem to have been the founders of the Nok complex; The above ancient people belong to the branch of Black African referred to as Sudanese or Nilotic Negroes. And the Ancient Bantu, who migrated from East/Central Africa.
There were, of course other ancient peoples who were migrating into the West Africa region, but the aforementioned ones serve the purpose of tracing the origins of the Ijos, Yoruba, Edo and Igbo.
An unbiased reading of the works of notable Ijaw historians such as S K Owonaru (History of Ijos and her Neighbours in Nigeria 1949), E J Alagoa (The History of the Niger Delta) and the works by other historians from the Yoruba, Edo and Igbo will demonstrate that indeed the Ijaws are one of the ancient tribes to have settled West Africa, who later on intermarried with other equally ancient tribes to give birth to the ethnic nationalities that now inhabit Southern Nigeria today.
The ancient people from which the Ijaws descended from were not known as Ijaw (Ijo, Ujo, although this name has been traced to a legendary ancestor who established in the Niger Delta with his people). The ancestral name was ORU. That is why in colonial documents the Ijaws are also referred to as ORU people. It was the ancient ORU people that fused with others to produce our immediate neighbours.
In the ancestral histories of the Ijaw, Benin kingdom and Ife, not to mention the Borgu and Nupe kingdoms, there is reference to a number of migrations from the Sudan and Egypt into the West Africa region. This narratives cannot be dismissed as were fairy tales. Now historical question that we need to ask is, were the ancestors of the Ijaws a part of these great migrations into West Africa from Egypt and Sudan? If indeed the answer is yes we will go deeper into this root, if the answer is no, historians need to come with an answer, where did the ancestors come from?, considering the fact that no West African people are truly autochthonous to West Africa. Each arrived during antiquity or recently.
Glancing at the Benin narratives of the history of the foundation of the Benin kingdom, there is reference to migrations from Egypt via Sudan to Ife and then Benin region, where it is stated that the migrating group met an earlier group of settlers which had come from the Sudan. These first settlers or aborigines from the Sudan, were they the ORU people? The migration from Egypt/Sudan is not confined to Benin. Independent of Benin influence we have traditions recorded from Seimbiri-Ijo clan and Andoni-Ijo clan than claim that the Ijo ancestors one time lived in Egypt. Again these traditions cannot be dismissed as fairly tales or fabrications, as there were no reason to lie by the ancestral traditionalists.
The problem with the histories of Borgu, Nupe, Ife, Benin, Ijo is the deliberate confusion created around as to who were the actual people who migrated from Egypt & Sudan and else where to establish these kingdoms, brought about by studying these migration traditions in isolation. Could they not be all referring to the same migrations?
The migrations from Egypt & Sudan mentioned in the ancestral narratives of the Ijaw, Benin and Yoruba, as well as the Borgu and Nupe refer to one and the same people known as the KUMONI (a branch of the ORU people that settled in Upper Egypt)and the ORU. This fact has been obscured, but we are now in the position to establish this historical fact. The original autochthonous people that were settled in the Benin region prior to the arrival of the KUMONI, were the ORU people, who as the traditions state had also come from the Sudan at an unknown earlier date in antiquity. Other ancient people’s that had settled in the Benin region were the EFA, and Ife region were the OYELAGBO or UGBO (IGBO) peoples, while east of the Niger we also have the IGBO’s
The mistake many modern Ijo historians have made was to believe that reference to Ife and Benin as places of origin means originating from the Yoruba and Edo peoples as we know them today. Whereas a deep investigation into the histories of both Ife and Benin indicate that more than one ethnic group were responsible for the genesis of these two city-states. For the earliest dynastic period of Ife and Benin an unnamed people associated with both the legendary Oduduwa at Ife and Ogiso Igodo dynasty at Benin was responsible for establishing the earliest forms of monarchy in these two city kingdoms. Whereas in Ife, the proto-Yoruba ancestors called OOYELAGBO OR UGBO are mentioned, and at Benin the proto-Edo ancestors called EFA are mentioned, the name of the tribe of the dynastic founders are not. What was the name of the tribe that Oduduwa belonged to? What was the name of the tribe that Igodo the first Ogiso of Benin, belonged to? Why has Oduduwa’s original name ADUMU not been emphasised more than his alias ODUDUWA?
An examination and comparison of the names ADUMU, OGU (OGUN) & OGBOGBODIRI the first 3 kings of dynastic Ife, IGODO, ERE & KALADIRAN the first 2 and last Ogisos of Benin with the Ijo language, reveals that these names are still being borne by Ijo individuals up till today, but the present day Yoruba and Edo do not bear these names. What does this suggest? It suggests that the dynastic founders of Ife and Benin were ethnically related to the present day Ijo people as emphasised by ancestral tradition.
The facts that we have gained through the understanding of the related traditional narratives of the Ijos, Urhobos, Binis, Yoruba, has enabled us to reconstruct the sequence of events that led to the emergence of the City State complexes of Ife and Benin and the Ijos of the Niger Delta. Our outline throws light on the seemingly confusion of the ancestral traditions of the aforementioned peoples and demonstrates that instead of looking at the traditions as isolated events, or at worst invented fables, we should view them as the individual perspectives of the whole story that has until now, not been fully told. So let the full story unfold. Based on the research we have done we are bold to assert the following:
Starting from about 500 BC (although the peopling of West Africa goes back to at least 2000 BC) various ancient African peoples indigenous to the continent started to settle the Lower Niger, Savannah fringe and forest regions of present day Southern Nigeria. These ancient peoples had come from different parts of Africa namely the old Sahara grasslands, North Africa, North east Africa (Nile-Valley) and the East African Great lakes region: which were the homes of more ancient civilisations going back at least 10,000 years. As to who arrived first is of no consequence, since the land was too vast for any one people to lay claim to the whole.
For our research topic we have singled out four distinct ancient peoples whose names have come down to us through tradition, who combined and came together in various ways to give birth to the kingdoms of Southern Nigeria. These ancient people have been identified as:
The ORU or KUMONI (also known as the ONU or ANU people) they were an aquatic based culture, settling the banks of rivers and watersides. They were indigenous to the Nile Valley and Lake Chad regions before moving south (an exhaustive comparison between the ancient religious and cultural system of the twin Nile-Valley civilisations of Egypt and Sudan, plus language studies enables us to conclude that the ANU or ONU were ethnically the same as the ORU.
The IGBO or UGBO (also known as OOYELAGBO) a branch of the Kwa, they were land based. They were originally situated in East Africa, before migrating to the north of the Niger/Benue confluence region in antiquity.
The EFA, they were also land based. The EFA & IGBO seem to have descended from a people once known as the KWA or KWARA people, who inhabited the Middle Niger/Benue confluence region (hence its original name of Kwara river).
The BANTU & SEMI BANTU of unknown names, from east and central Africa. THE EVENTS THAT GAVE RISE TO THE FOUNDATION OF IFE, BENIN & DELTA STATES
The period between 500 BC & 700 AD was a time of great demographic change and population migration in West Africa. From a central location situated within the Niger/Benue confluence valley, some sections of the KWA people namely the IGBO and EFA started to migrate and settle the now Western and Eastern Nigeria regions. Also around about this period, from the Nile Valley and Lake Chad regions, the ancient ORU or KUMONI people started to settle the middle Niger, Lower Niger and Mid-west regions of present Nigeria. Some, even settling and making their way to the Niger Delta coast.
By about 500 AD scattered primordial isolated communities of all the aforementioned ancient peoples began to come into being throughout the Southern Nigeria region.
This isolated and stateless existence situation was changed with the arrival of fresh immigrants from the Nile Valley due to the Arab onslaught from about 640 AD. In the various traditions these immigrants are referred to as having came from EGYPT, SUDAN, & ARABIA (MECCA) To clear up this point. The use of the term MECCA or ARABIA is just a reference to the EAST, While references to Egypt and Sudan have more factual foundation, as these civilisations were clearly indigenous Black African civilisations up until their colonisation by the Arabs. The migration route of these stream of refugees fleeing the upheavals of North East Africa was through the Lake Chad – Middle Niger (Borgu/Bussa/Nupe) then on to the Ife, Benin and Lower Niger regions.
The fusion of these newly arrived immigrants with the older communities was like a seeding process, causing a condensation of populations to converge in city like communities. It was this process that gave birth to the first dynastic City State centres, of which Borgu, Nupe, Ife and Benin became the most prominent.
From the ancestral traditions we can reconstruct the following facts regarding the foundation of Ife & Benin.
From about 500 AD a branch of the UGBO referred to as OOYELAGBO started to arrive in the Ile-Ife region, from an ancestral home situated in the Niger/Benue confluence region. They set up dispersed communities within the now Ile-Ife region. Shortly afterwards (650 AD) a branch of the ORU known as the KUMONI, migrated from Upper Egypt to the Bussa region. In the Bussa region they fused with the local population and established the BORGU Kingdom. From the Bussa region a section decided to settle in the Ile-Ife region and establish a City state to be known as YOBA (YEBA) derived from the original name of the Upper Egyptian province that they had hailed from.
They establishment of this new city was opposed by certain sections of the OOYELAGBO communities led by the chief Obatala priest ORELUERE, who argued that since it was they who arrived first, the king of the city must be from amongst them. This led to a war told in the ancestral traditions as the “war between ODUDUWA & OBATALA” In reality it was a conflict between two theocratic systems of government. On the one hand we had the new form of centralised Government based on a theocratic monarchy focused on the SUPREME MOTHER GODDESS (Woyingi). The OOYELAGBO form of traditional chief’s council opposed this with the head chief being focused on the GODHEAD (Obatala).
With the help of dissatisfied sections of the OOYELAGBO communities, led by Oba-Meri, and also ORU people living in the Nupe region; the leaders of the KUMONI people headed by a prince original named as ADIMU (ADUMU) went to war and defeated the opposing factions of Ooyelagbo and established his centralised government. Prince Adimu was also a priest of the SUPREME MOTHER GODDESS LODGE (known in Kumoni language as Woyingi, and in Ooyelagbo language as Oduduwa) and at the same time a high initiate of the ancient ADUMU (ADUM) spiritual Initiation lodge of ancient Egypt.
Before the final setting up of the government, Prince Adimu invited the leaders of the hostile Ooyelagbo communities and his own allies (the Oru and Ooyelagbo supporters) to a constitutional conference, where it was agreed to form a confederacy where all the communities living in the area would swear allegiance to Adumu, but have control over their own internal affairs. At that conference Prince Adumu was declared the LORD OF THE FORTRESS ‘ALA – AFIN’ (ALA-lord or chief, AFIN-fortress) and henceforth addressed as “ALA-AFIN ADUMU-ALA”. (ALA is still a Chief title amongst the Ijaws). He also took on the alias ‘ODUDUWA’, as it was the term in the Ooyelagbo language for the Mother Goddess of which he was a priest.
In order to unite the opposing factions intermarriage was decreed. This is told in the tradition as the marriage between Obatala & Oduduwa with the birth of the sixteen gods and goddesses. Indeed Prince Adumu took several wives from the local Ooyelagbo women as well as his own Kumoni/Oru women. This policy was adhered to by his successors. Prince (now King) Adumu administered the new City state (military, theocratic confederacy) so skilfully that he was remembered in ancestral tradition as the ancestor of the YOBA NATION, meaning the ORIGINATOR OF THE YOBA NATION. This was how the first Yoba nation came into being and how Ife became the centre of the 1st dynastic city-state in Southern Nigeria. This was also the Ife of the 1st dynastic period. Later on YOBA was corrupted to YORUBA and the term applied to all the people who spoke related dialects/languages, who had centuries later integrated to become one people. The original Kumoni language spoken by the king and his people (Kumoni-Oru) was later on absorbed into the Ooyelagbo language to give rise to Yoruba language and its various dialects.
Meanwhile at this early stage, even while the unification was yet complete, some sections of the KUMONI-ORU left Ife to establish themselves elsewhere, after accomplishing their task of setting up the City state with Prince Adumu (alias Oduduwa) as the first dynastic king. The 1st migration out of Ife was led by prince Ujo (alias Idekoseroake) mentioned in the ancestral tradition as being the first son of King Adumu. Other migrations, such as the one by Prince Nana, ended up in present day Ghana region.
Prince Ujo was a war commander who took part in the battles that were fought to subdue the hostile Ooyelagbo communities and establish the New Kingdom. Between 650 –700 AD Prince Ujo led a migration out of Ife to the Benin region, where he encamped and established a settlement that later was to become the basis of Benin City. At this time ORU people, as well as the EFA people were settling the Benin region. These all these people combined to form the genesis of the Benin Kingdom, later to be joined by other settlers from Igala and elsewhere.
Prince Ujo’s instructions were to go to the Niger Delta, and establish a strategic base from which to defend the coastal region. Clearly his father King Adumu, regarded the whole southern region as a virgin territory which he would bring under his direct control. Prince Ujo proceeded to the central Niger Delta with his followers and came across isolated communities of ORU in remote settlements. Together with these people they formed viable communities in the central delta originally based on the City-state formation. This was birth of the Ijo people.
Some of the Kumoni/Oru remained behind at Benin region, indeed a section of the Oru known as the Beni, who had come from the Sudan through Nupe, gave the name Beni to newly emerging settlements. These were the Oru or Ijos of Benin City who later on between the 12th –15th centuries AD fled into the delta to escape the upheavals of Benin City. Along with the EFA people they were quite prominent at Benin. Shortly after the 1st migration, a 2nd migration from Ife led by Prince Igodo established the early foundations of the Benin Kingdom dynastic government of the Ogisos.
Prince Igodo (Godo) led the 2nd migration from Ile-Ife. At the death of King Adumu, Igodo was sidelined in the scheme of things. It seems that what happened at this point in time was that King Adumu’s chief war officer Ogu (Ogun) temporarily took over the reigns of government until a successor could be chosen. It was decided that a son whose mother was an Ooyelagbo should occupy the throne, and so Prince Ogbogbodiri (alias Ala-Fun or Lufon I) assumed the kingship.
Prince Igodo and a few companions decided to leave Ile-Ife for good, acquiring the mystic source of powers which aided his father in the defeat of the hostile Ooyelagbo, Prince Igodo migrated to the Benin region and met up with the followers of Prince Ujo who remained behind and had established settlements at Benin (Uzama, Ogiama, etc). Later on like his father before him, Prince Igodo centralised the existing ORU and EFA communities and was proclaimed the 1st PRINCE OF THE REALM or OGI-SUO (OGISO). Also like his father he allowed the existing communities internal autonomy, thus the leader of the EFA communities was proclaimed OGI-EFA. These communities later on came together to give birth to the 1st dynastic state of Benin Kingdom (IGODOMIGODO).
IJOS IN THE NIGER DELTA
The Kumoni-Oru who settled the Niger Delta with the most ancient inhabitants also known as ORU (TOBU OTU) gave birth to the Ijos. The original settlements were in the western & central delta, from where they spread out to people the whole Niger Delta. This period has been estimated to have occurred between 500 BC to 1000 AD. These original ancestors were spiritual initiates of the ancient African spiritual initiation system of the CREATOR TEM (TEMUNO). They made heavy symbolic ritualistic use of the water, and hence have been referred to as the ‘water people’ ‘beni-otu’. Later on between 1200 – 1600 AD the Oru or Ijos of the Niger Delta received immigrants from their relatives living at Benin and the lower Niger regions, who were fleeing the various upheavals and power struggles of Benin city during t he time of the 2nd Oba dynasty. They collectively gave birth to the Ijo nation with its City-states and collective Clan communities.
THE SECOND PERIOD OF IFE, BENIN & IJO
The 1st Adumu dynastic state of Ife founded by the legendary Prince Adumu (known in Yoruba tradition as the legendary Oduduwa) and the Ogiso dynastic state of Benin existed for upwards 500 years starting from about 650 AD. Later on new conquering forces that came from the Niger/Benue heartlands of the ancient UGBO overthrew them.
We now know that at about 1150 AD a conqueror remembered as ORANJAN (ORANMIYAN) from Takpa-land (situated in the Niger/Benue region) took over the Old Oyo kingdom which was closely connected to Ife. Ife was attacked next, but the old Adumu dynastic rulers were not deposed, but made to pay tribute to ORANJAN at his base in Oko. It was from this base that ORANJAN made war on Benin, which had by this time fallen into decay with the fleeing into exile of the Ogiso Prince Kaladiran. It took several attempts and centuries for the Oranjan forces to gain total control of Benin. When they did gain control, they changed the title of the Ogiso kings to OBA. Eweka was the first Oba of the 2nd Benin dynasty (1170 AD).
Meanwhile at Ife the Adumu dynasty was finally overthrown, with the exiling of Lufon II and the instalment of Lajamisan who claimed to be a direct descendant of Oranjan.
In order to gain real legitimacy at Ife, Oyo and Benin, the new dynastic fraternity of Ife, Oyo and Benin was mythologised (distorting history in the process) as the last sons of King Oduduwa, the founder of the first Yoba kingdom of Ile-Ife (as the original founder, all legitimacy derives from him), even though at least 500 years separates the period of the establishment of the city state of Ife by King Adumu (alias Oduduwa) around 650 AD, and the emergence of Oranjan (Oranmiyan) in about 1150 AD.
And lastly, about late 15th to 16th centuries, a large section of the Ijos who once lived at Benin, migrated into the Niger Delta.
CLEARING UP THE CONFUSION BETWEEN IJAW AND BENIN HISTORIES
Due to distortions in the present history of Ife and Benin, there is a lot of confusion as to the actual foundation of Benin, the time of the two major dynasties, and how the Ijos relate to both.
The original founding inhabitants (aborigines) of the Benin region were the ORU people. They were later joined by the KUMONI from Upper Egypt and the EFA from the East Africa via Niger/Benue confluence region. These peoples came together under Prince Igodo (Godo) to establish the first Benin kingdom of the Ogisos. In Benin traditional history they are represented by the UZAMA , OGIAMA (OGIAMWEN) & IYASE elements. This first kingdom lasted approximately 500 years. (it is noted that the names IGODO and ERE, the first two kings of the Ogiso dynasty are still Ijo names borne by Ijaws to the present day).
Establishing the identity of the Uzama & Ogiama- According to P A Talbot (The People’s of Southern Nigeria 1926 pp31-153 “The Benin country appears to have been inhabited by a people called Efa, the ancestors of the present Edo and ruled by a large number of petty chiefs, those at Benin City being the Ogiame, and the Uzama Nihino (The seven Uzama)”.
This statement is in agreement with ancestral Ijaw hsitory as compiled by S K Owonaru and extant Ife traditions. The site of Benin City itself was the site of the first habitation of the Ijos (Kumoni) before moving into the Niger delta. Those that remained behind founded the settlements of Uzama (Ujo-ama or Uzo-ama), whilst the Igodo element founded Ogiame (Ogi-ama). Further proof comes from the fact that the most ancient quarters of Benin City are prefixed IDUMU meaning quarters in Ijo language. It was the Uzama and Ogiama people that put up the most critical resistance against the invaders (Oranjan from Ife). These invaders were not from Ile-Ife as is commonly supposed, but from another Ife to the north-east situated near the Igala country.
A second group who displaced the Ogisos and introduced the Oba title, forced themselves onto the Benin people in about 1170 AD. These people are erraneously referred to as the Yoruba element. In fact they came not from Ile-Ife, as is commonly narrated, but from Igala country. These people had to conquer the Ile-Ife region and establish the Oranmiyan dynasty. It should be noted that the Igala and present day Yoruba have a direct ancestral link. Indeed the Igala region is the ancestral home of the present day Yoruba speaking people (historians need to seriously research this).
According to the records, the last Ogiso prince, Kaladiran (Ekaladerhan) became a victim of political intrigue and was exiled from Benin City. He fled into the delta and founded the town of Igodo with his band of exiles.
Oranjan (Oranyan), on his first attempt to conquer Benin, encountered resistance at the Ovia river by the Ijos. After several attempts Oranjan circumvented the Ovia river route and gains a foothold at Uzama. It is at Uzama that he sets up base, but due to stiff opposition from the people he is forced to leave. By the time he has left with his entourage, he has formed an alliance with the Uzama chiefs (the seven Uzama) and also some of the leaders of the Efa (i.e Ogiefa). It is whilst here that Oranjan has a son by an Efa woman. This son is named Eweka.
Eweka also encounters opposition in trying to establish a dynasty at Benin. It is only after the forth generation during the time of Ewedo that they gain some success in establishing dynastic control over the whole of Benin City. Which is to say that before Ewedo, the previous Obas did not really exercise monarchical power over Benin City.
Ewedo also encounters major resistance from the Ijos of the Ovia river complex and also the inhabitants of Ogiama (Ogiame). It was during this decisive battle that Ewedo obtained the royal stool of the Ogisos from Ogiama.
The leaders of the Ogiama, custodians of the Ogiso stool and the leaders of the Uzama were then invited to form a government with Ewedo. The Oranjan or Eweka dynasty becomes established at Benin city. But resistance is still put up by some sections of the kingdom.
The Eweka dynasty was not fully accepted. It faced increasing resistance from the City of Udo, which was west of Benin across the Ovia river. Due to this resistance ditches were dug around Benin. Oba Ogulua marries one of the daughters of the ruler of Udo to secure peace but to no avail. During an intense campaign against Udo, the resistance is destroyed, leading to many of the indigenes fleeing into the main delta. From time to time the leaders of the Uzama presented resistance to the illegimate regime at Benin.
The Eweka dynasty only becomes fully legitimise when Ogun (Ewuare)of the 12th generation ascends the throne. Ogun it is stated was the child of a noble woman who descended from the Ogisos, ie to say she was an Ogiso princess. This may have been a deliberate process on the part of the indigenous element put in place a ruler who was favourable to their interests (Ogun was earlier banaished), for Ogun ascended to the throne after a great battle that lasted two days and two nights. So Ogun ascended the throne of the Ogisos and united in himself the two dynasties (the older indigenous Ogiso dynasty and the younger Oranjan-Eweka dynasty from an Ife near the Igala country). It was during Ogun’s time that 'the trouble ceased' so to speak. It was from his time that the monarchy became legitimate and stablised by Ogun creating a state council integrating the Indigenous chiefs in a power sharing arrangment.
By the time of the Oba kings of Benin, the Ijo (Oru) speaking element of Benin had become a minority in the Benin region, due to intermarriage with the EFA amongst other things. This intermarriage gave birth to some of the Urhobo clans so to speak, who later migrated from Benin.
Subsequently the Oranmiyan-Eweka dynasty started confiscating the land of the true owners of the Benin region, which led to massive migrations out of Benin. Hence the Ijaw narratives from Mein-Ijo and other clans which attest to such actually happening. Many of these people moved into the main central delta and coast to join their kith & Kin already estabished in the region. (Historians need to question why was it that Mein fled Benin into the central delta from Aboh, which at the time was still Ijo speaking? Why is it that the Urhobo maintain fraternal relations with the Ijaws up till the present day?
Conclusion:
As we go further and further back in time, we cannot talk of the Ijos, Yoruba,s Binis, Edos, Urhobos as we now understand them as ethnic groups in this present time.
We have established that certain ancient African people’s settled in the Southern Nigeria region and gave birth to new ethnic groups. These ancient tribes were known as
The ORU,
The KUMONI (a part of the ORU)
The OOYELAGBO OR UGBO (a part of the KWA)
The IGBO (a part of the KWA)
The EFA (A part of the KWA)
The BANTU and SEMI BANTU
Of the above only the ORU or KUMONI were aquatic previously living in the Nile-Valley, Upper Niger, Lake Chad region and Lower Niger.
The KWA and BANTU formally lived in the East Africa and Nok regions.
The Nile-Valley migration stories refer mostly to the ORU or KUMONI people.
In the Southern Nigeria region these people fused in the following manner to produce the following major ethnic groupings.
In the Niger Delta - KUMONI + ORU = IJO (some intermarriage with EFA women, and maybe Bantu, ORU element largest)
In the Ile-Ife region - KUMONI + OOYELAGBO = YORUBA (OOYELAGBO element larger, some of the sub groups are less mixed than others)
In the Benin region - KUMONI + EFA +OOYELAGBO = EDO ( EFA element largest, Bini, etc)
In the north-west delta region - KUMONI + ORU + EFA = URHOBO & ISOKO (Oru men marrying Efa women and children speaking mother tongue!)
East of the Niger - ORU + EFA + IGBO + BANTU = IBO (IGBO)
1450 upwards, YORUBA + BINI + IJO = ITSEKIRI (The Yoruba element being the larger)
At a glance one can see why the Ijo language is very much distinct from the other languages such as Yoruba, Edo and Igbo, as the Ijos seem to be most isolated of the Ethnic nationalities when it comes to the fusion of the ancient tribes.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [1] J O Vogel (1997)-editor - Encyclopedia of Precolonial Africa-Archaeology, History, Language, Cultures and Environment, p172.
quote:Originally posted by Hotep2u: Thanks for the reply Herukhuti, well I have seen Amon is on point, though Malu for Bull would be a little different because I think the Kemetic word would be Apis, I think also eyes would be "Ri".
Hi Hotep2U, "Ri" in the Yoruba language literally means "to see" so there is a similarity there.
Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote: Origin of name The name was first recorded in Egyptian hieroglyphs only as ws-ir because the Egyptian writing system omitted vowels. It is reconstructed to have been pronounced *ʔUs-Īrī and survives into the Coptic language as Ousire.
Herukhuti very interesting because Usi=(many)ri=(eye)so Usiri actually meant many eye in Kemetic.
highly important connection made.
Could you speak more about Emi Emon or Amen within Yoruba.
quote: Origin of name The name was first recorded in Egyptian hieroglyphs only as ws-ir because the Egyptian writing system omitted vowels. It is reconstructed to have been pronounced *ʔUs-Īrī and survives into the Coptic language as Ousire.
Herukhuti very interesting because Usi=(many)ri=(eye)so Usiri actually meant many eye in Kemetic.
highly important connection made.
Could you speak more about Emi Emon or Amen within Yoruba.
Hotep
Ok Hotep, the celestial church of christ is a christian denomination - combined with Yoruba spiritual concepts - that has flourished in Nigeria for a while...
This is off Wikipedia but seems accurate to me. I attended the celestial church of christ for a while when I was younger so I pretty much understand their vibe:
Although the group takes elements from Yoruba thought it also has strong similarities to the "purification movements" against paganism that are relatively common in African Christianity and also Islam. Oschoffa believed he had a mission to combat, "'Satan', 'fetish priests' and other 'powers of darkness'."(Marburg article) The name for the group is said to come from an Alexander Yanga that he healed. The name signifies that they deem themselves as celestial or a representative of the heavenly on Earth. They call God-Jehova, Jesus-Jesu Kristi, and the Holy Spirit is Emi Mimo. The Bible alone is seen as insufficient without the Celestial Church.
They place strong emphasis on contacting angelic forces through prayer and being on guard against demons or sorcerers. The archangels are given strong importance. Therefore prayers are started with an invocation to Jehova, Jesu Kristi, and Michael Mimo (God the Father, Jesus, and Archangel Michael) Archangel Gabriel is said to heal and have jurisdiction of the West. Archangel Raphael is of the South and has force. Uriel is the least invoked and has the north axis. The level of importance given to invoking angels and avoiding demons is believed by some to be a Yoruba spiritualist aspect.
Members give testimonials of past instances of witchcraft. Also they believe objects can be blessed. Prophecies and dreams are deemed important to the group. They are hierarchical and do not ordain women because they are deemed to be ritually impure.
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