The question is often asked "Why is it called Egypt?" This question can best be answered correctly by first remembering that the Ancient Egyptian language is NOT a dead language. It not only survives as Coptic Egyptian, but also in related languages such as Wolof(Senegal) and Yoruba(Nigeria). If this fact is kept in mind, one cannot drift into spurious speculations.
Kemet: The Original Name of Egypt
The oldest, official name for Egypt, by the Ancient Egyptians themselves, is Kmt (Keme) or Black. The contemporary Egyptian (Coptic) words for Egypt are (depending on the particular dialect): Kame, Keme, Kimi, and Kheme - all of which mean Black. Also in Coptic Egyptian we have, kem, kame, kmi, kmem, kmom or "to be black." The Ancient Egyptians referred to themselves as Kmtjw (Kemetu) and Kmmw (Kmemu) or Black people (In contemporary Egyptian: Kmemou=Black people). In Wolof, Khem means "burnt to black."
"Egypt": Greek Corruptions
The Greeks corrupted an Ancient Egyptian name for Memphis - Ht-Ki-Pth (hay-gip-Toh), "The Temple of Ptoh's Essence," to Aigyptos. Keeping in mind that the Greeks had a convention of adding an 's' to Ancient Egyptian proper nouns: Osiri (Usiri in contemporary Egyptian) > Osiris Isi (Ese in contemporary Egyptian) > Isis Pth(Toh) > Tos
"Misr" and "Mizraim": Semitic Corruptions
British Egyptologist E.A.W. Budge was one of the first to remark that "The name Mizraim may have been given Egypt (by foreigners) in respect of its double wall." The name Misr is indeed a Semiticized form of Ancient Egyptian: Medjr = walled district Medjre = tower, fortress These Ancient Egyptian words became Meetsrayeem (Egypt) and Meetsree (Egyptian) in Hebrew, and in Arabic; Misr and Masri respectively. It is the same as Westerners calling China, "China," after the original Qin dynasty emperor ("Tschina" in Indo-European). The Chinese, however, call their country Zhongguo or 'the Middle Kingdom.'
Ancient Egyptian glossary
'Egypt' [ ] = Contemporary Egyptian (Coptic) words Eturmeh..........North river (Lower Egypt) [Eioor - river] Etures.............South river (Upper Egypt) Hedje..............White Crown country (Upper Egypt) Keme..............Black (All of Egypt) [Keme - Black] Kemi..............."Southern" country (Upper Egypt) Pasheti............The two divisions of Egypt; one belonging to Horus and the other to Set [Pashe - boundary] Res.................the South (Upper Egypt) [Res - south] Shmo..............the South (Upper Egypt) Sonti..............."the two halves of Egypt" (Upper and Lower Egypt) TaMera...........Land of the Inundation TaMeri............My beloved land Tawi...............the Two lands (Upper and Lower Egypt)
'Egyptians' Kemetu............Black's peoples (Egyptian citizens) Kmemu............Black people (the Egyptian people) Resu................Southern people (Upper Egyptians) Ret..................The Men [Rot - men](a corruption of "Rmt") Ret na Romé....We Men above mankind [Romé - men;mankind] Romé n Keme..Men of Black ("Egyptians") TaMeru...........Land of the Inundation people (Egyptians) TaMeri...........My Beloved Land Tawiu..............The Two Lands people (Egyptian) [Ta;to - land]
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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A comprehensive list of the structure and usages of perhaps the most significant word in the Ancient Egyptian language. All of these words can be found in "An Egyptian Hieroglyphic Dictionary" by E. A. Wallis Budge, Dover, NY
Used as an adjective
kem;kemem;kemom - black kemu - black (m) keme.t - black (f) hime.t keme.t - "black woman" himu.t keme.t - "black women"
Used as a noun
keme.t - any black person, place, or thing
A determinative is then used to be more specific:
keme.t (woman) - "the Black woman"; ie, 'divine woman' keme.t (cow) - "a Black cow" - ie, a 'sacred cow' Keme.t (nation) - "the Black nation"
kem - a black one (m) keme.t - a black one (f) kemu - black ones (m) kemu.t - black ones (f) kemeti - two black ones
Used for Nationality
Sa Kemet - a man of Black (an Egyptian male) Sa.t Kemet - a woman of Black (an Egyptian female) Rome.t Kemet - the people of Black (Egyptians) Kemetou - Blacks (ie, 'citizens') Kememou - Black people (of the Black nation)
Other usages
Sa Kem - "Black man", a god, and son of Sa.t Kem.t - "Black woman", a goddess (page 589b) kem (papyrus) - to end, complete kem.t (papyrus) - the end, completion kemi - finished products kem khet (stick) - jet black ... kemwer - any Egyptian person, place or thing ('to be black' + 'to be great')
Kemwer - "The Great Black" - a title of Osiris - the Ancestor of the race
Kemwer (body of water) - "the Great Black sea" - the Red sea Kemwer (body of water + river bank) - a lake in the Duat (the OtherWorld) Kemwer Nteri - "the sacred great Black bulls" kemwer (fortress) - a fort or town Kemwer (water) - the god of the great Black lake
Kem Amut - a black animal goddess Kemi.t-Weri.t - "the great Black woman", a goddess Kem-Neb-Mesen.t - a lion god Kem ho - "black face", a title of the crocodile Rerek kem; kemu (shield) - buckler, shield kem (wood) - black wood kem.t (stone) - black stone or powder kem.tt (plant) - a plant kemu (seed) - seeds or fruit of the kem plant kemti - "black image", sacred image or statue
Using the causative "S"
S_kemi - white haired, grey-headed man (ie, to have lost blackness) S_kemkem - to destroy, overthrow, annihilate S_kemem - to blacken, to defile
Antonyms
S_desher - to redden, make ruddy S_desheru - red things, bloody wounds
Some interesting Homonyms (pages 770 > )
qem - to behave in a seemly manner Qemi - the south, Upper Egypt qem.t - reed, papyrus qemaa - to throw a boomerang qem_au - to overthrow qemam.t - mother, parent qemamu - workers (in metal, wood) qemqem - tambourines qemd - to weep qemati - statue, image - same as kemti qema - to create qemaiu - created beings Qemau;Qemamu - The Creator
Deshret - the opposite of Kemet
deshr.t - any red (ie, non-Black) person, place, or thing ... deshr.t (woman) - "the Red woman"; ie, 'evil woman' deshr.t (cow) - "a Red cow" - ie, the 'devil's cow' deshr - a red one (m) deshr.t - a red one (f) deshru - red ones (m) deshru.t - red ones (f) -- White or light-skinned people; devils deshreti - two red ones
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
thank you for stating that wally. I am new to this site. the yoruba of Nigeria call their father (baba). the same name used by the ancient egyptians who also called their father baba. Now I am not claiming that they are direct descendant, just showing similiarity. there so much more similiarity in other parts of africa to egypt than anyother part of the world including the middel east.
going off the immediate topic, to add some points about skin tone. black race has different skin tones. in Nigeria for instance, a family can consist of light skin, medium to dark skin. those are simply skin variations of one race. it does not make them a different race.
Posts: 38 | From: united states | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
"Baba" (or some variant) is used by most Afro-Asiatic speakers to call their fathers (e.g. I call my father Baba), but it is also an almost universal trait. Cp. e.g. "Papa" as used by Indo-European speakers (root for father similar to "Pater," ignore Russian "Baba," meaning "old woman")
-------------------- "Oh the sons of Ethiopia; observe with care; the country called Ethiopia is, first, your mother; second, your throne; third, your wife; fourth, your child; fifth, your grave." - Ras Alula Aba Nega. Posts: 1024 | Registered: Jun 2006
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posted
A necessary "primer" perhaps for those "newbies", who might find it somewhat cumbersome to retrieve related older topics buried in the archives, especially when the search function ceased to exist, and who are willing to learn that with which they could build their knowledge on; needless to say, the "primer" won't do much for those, who are driven by something else that is not 'rationality' or 'objectivity'.
-------------------- Truth - a liar penetrating device! Posts: 5964 | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
How can the ancient Egyptian language be related to Yurobo or Wolof when it is understood they spoke an Afro-Asiatic tongue?
From these threads information alone, I have learnt the overwhelming information suggests that Ancient Egyptians where related in terms of Language and DNA to modern day Horn Africans such as the Beja, Afar, Somalis etc etc etc
Posts: 265 | From: UK | Registered: Dec 2005
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Lingusits make the interesting observation that all the so-called "Afro-Asiatic languages" are origined in Africa except Arabic--which nevertheless has its roots in East Africa in the form of "proto-Semitic".
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by lamin: To Prinec of Punt:
Lingusits make the interesting observation that all the so-called "Afro-Asiatic languages" are origined in Africa except Arabic--which nevertheless has its roots in East Africa in the form of "proto-Semitic".
Tell me what I already don't know!
Where in my post did I dispute the fact that Afro-Asiatic languages originate in the Horn of Africa!
Posts: 265 | From: UK | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Yom: "Baba" (or some variant) is used by most Afro-Asiatic speakers to call their fathers (e.g. I call my father Baba), but it is also an almost universal trait. Cp. e.g. "Papa" as used by Indo-European speakers (root for father similar to "Pater," ignore Russian "Baba," meaning "old woman")
'Baba' is also the Chinese word for father, so let's not get caught up in certain coincidental (universal) similarities lest we end up in the realm of pseudo-linguistics.
But there are other similarities that connect the Egyptians to West Africa which are uniquely are indeed uniquely African.
However the main point of this thread is to point out the real meaning of 'Kemet' and shed the distortions.
Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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You guys say I don't understand, ok for the ones who do understand.
Show us where they called themselves black?
Are you that incredibly stupid?? READ the POST, from the beginning, and slowly...
Who says that kemamu means black people, where is those who speak contemporary Egyptian. Even my copt friends have no idea what is kemamu means?
I Think this is another invention by afro centrics.
OK, Idiot, I'll play with you...
> Any Coptic speaking person who says that he doesn't understand the word "Kmemou" is either lying to you and/or is NOT you friend.
> In the Coptic Bible, there is a passage from the Song of Songs which reads "Anok ang ouKeme" which in Coptic means "I am a Black (person)." I have quoted this previously. And, my simple friend, you cannot deny the reality of Black Ancient Egypt by simply relying upon name calling; "Afro centric" is not, nor will ever be an argument. It is not my problem that those, such as you, cannot accept reality...
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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I am a black man like those you portay as African Ancient Egyptian and call them black, and probably darker. So I know my colour is dark but I know for sure that I am not pure racially.
Ancient Egyptians were also coloured people or black, but like me they were also not pure racially.
------------------------------
Going to the subject
Even if kemamu means black where could you verify in ancient history that it was used to mean black people with no doubt?
You guys say I don't understand, ok for the ones who do understand.
Show us where they called themselves black?
Are you that incredibly stupid?? READ the POST, from the beginning, and slowly...
Who says that kemamu means black people, where is those who speak contemporary Egyptian. Even my copt friends have no idea what is kemamu means?
I Think this is another invention by afro centrics.
Egyptian Proverb: <malekyoush fi 'elward 3eib kalom ya 'aHmar el-khaddein>
Literal translation: They found no wrong with roses, so they said it is red! Hidden meaning: People will disagree with you no matter how perfect you are. Applicability: When people criticize just for the sake of criticizing.
The above proverb is for those who attack the FACTS that guys on this forum have provided again & again & again & again...
But the naysayers won't back down. Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Wally: The Origin of the Name, "Egypt"
The question is often asked "Why is it called Egypt?" This question can best be answered correctly by first remembering that the Ancient Egyptian language is NOT a dead language. It not only survives as Coptic Egyptian, but also in related languages such as Wolof(Senegal) and Yoruba(Nigeria).
According to most linguists, the AE tongue (whatever they called it) has closer relations to Chadic and Cushitic languages than to Wolof or Yoruba.
Posts: 7083 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Wally: The Origin of the Name, "Egypt"
The question is often asked "Why is it called Egypt?" This question can best be answered correctly by first remembering that the Ancient Egyptian language is NOT a dead language. It not only survives as Coptic Egyptian, but also in related languages such as Wolof(Senegal) and Yoruba(Nigeria).
According to most linguists, the AE tongue (whatever they called it) has closer relations to Chadic and Cushitic languages than to Wolof or Yoruba.
The closest relative to the Mdu Ntr, aside from Coptic, are the Beja languages as well as other, so-called Cushitic tongues... The fact that the Mdu Ntr is also related to Wolof and Yoruba points to the reality of a common cultural origin in the distant African past...
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote: AMR1 wrote: Wally I am a black man like those you portay as African Ancient Egyptian and call them black, and probably darker. So I know my colour is dark but I know for sure that I am not pure racially.
Ancient Egyptians were also coloured people or black, but like me they were also not pure racially.
You are one confused cookie! a) I am not portraying anything or calling the Ancient Egyptians Black, I am merely illustrating with factual evidence what THEY called themselves...
b) "Racial purity", in case you are (evidently) unaware of, is a concept that originated in Europe, specifically amongst the Nazi club; after all, White folks, whose genes are recessive rather than dominant, are keenly sensitive as to their "racial purity." There are no pure races, ethnic groups, linguistic groups, or PEOPLE! Your concept of you not being "pure Black" is the same type of subservient brainwashing that African-Americans successfully overcame during the 50's and the 60's; before which, every African-American would robotically cite his AmerIndian ancestry, or some other non-Black ancestry. You are, in fact, a social primitive - c'mon man this is 2006!
quote: AMR1 also wrote: Going to the subject Even if kemamu means black where could you verify in ancient history that it was used to mean black people with no doubt?
Let me TRY and walk you through this...
Language is emphatic, has rules which can only be altered by a ruse; ie, "Kmt" means the "Black land." Now to those who are not inclined or do not have the time to look into this issue, they would probably accept this "explanation." However, any INTELLIGENT individual when presented with the total concept of the term would simply say something like "Well I'll be damned!"; absorb this information and continue on with life, a little more wiser...
but then we come to those folks like yourself:
All that I can present to you are facts;
a) The Coptic language is the latest phase of Pharaonic Egyptian, and from this language we can come to understand the earlier forms of this language; examples:
--"Anok ang ouKeme" in Coptic; "Jnk Jng w Km.t" in Pharaonic Egyptian means literally "I, I, a Black person" or "I am a Black I am"
--"Anen Kemou", "Anen Kmemou" in Coptic; "Jnn Kmw", "Jnn Kmmw" in Pharaonic Egyptian means literally "We are Blacks/Black people."
--"Anok ang ouTerosh" in Coptic; "jnk jng w Dshr.t" in Pharaonic Egyptian means literally "I, I, a Red (White) person" or "I am a White I am."
--"Anen Teroshou" in Coptic; "Jnn Dshrw" in Pharaonic Egyptian means literally "We are White people."
--And I guess I saved the simplest explanation for last:
Kmem, Kmom are adjectives in the language, meaning "to be black" "w" or "ou" as it is in Coptic means the plural "s" or "ones" or "those" when attached to the end of the word, thusly, the word in Coptic, Pharaonic Egyptian means simply "Blacks", "Black ones", etc -10,000 years ago and in 2006!
This is why I tend to stress the importance of language in understanding Kemet, simply because it is, unlike images and artwork, the most difficult form to corrupt...
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
You guys are right, "baba" for "father" is a "kinderwort", so it is quite irrelevant for etymological purposes; but I don't remember reading about any use of it by Kemetians. On the contrary, If I remember well, Rusian linguists tried to connect the various Afrasian forms "baba" with Kemetic "ab.t" meaning "family" but it is an irrelevant comparison IMO.
As for languages being in some ways continuations of others, there is no need for them to be derived from the same Proto-Language. For example, now extinct Gallic (a Celtic language) continues via some words in modern French which is descending from Latin (an Italic language).
-------------------- Federico Da Montefeltro Posts: 203 | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Pax Dahomensis: You guys are right, "baba" for "father" is a "kinderwort", so it is quite irrelevant for etymological purposes; but I don't remember reading about any use of it by Kemetians. On the contrary, If I remember well, Rusian linguists tried to connect the various Afrasian forms "baba" with Kemetic "ab.t" meaning "family" but it is an irrelevant comparison IMO.
As for languages being in some ways continuations of others, there is no need for them to be derived from the same Proto-Language. For example, now extinct Gallic (a Celtic language) continues via some words in modern French which is descending from Latin (an Italic language).
The whole discussion regarding the word "Baba" is irrelevant and totally besides the point of this thread's topic.
--"Baba" was, indeed, a common word in the Mdu Ntr, and was more commonly used to refer to the first-born son of Osiris.
--"Father" in the Mdu Ntr would be "Itafe", "eiote", "eiout", "At"...
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Amr, not all Copts know or speak the Coptic language fluently. The only people that really know Coptic very well are usually elderly clergy but most Coptic youth living in the West hardly know any Coptic at all. Infact, many of the prayers know are often spoken in mixed Coptic and colloquial Egyptian Arabic.
Unless your friend is a Abuna I doubt he/she knows the Coptic language very well.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Wally, as a newbie here, this thread has been most welcome. The phases of the the Coptic language in relation to Pharaonic Egyptian are of great interest to me. More please?
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
^^But also of great importance is accuracy in translation and historiography.-- something some people are having a hard time with.
Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee: Wally, as a newbie here, this thread has been most welcome. The phases of the the Coptic language in relation to Pharaonic Egyptian are of great interest to me. More please?
There's an excellent online Coptic/English translator:
It is limited as to its word content but anyway it can be most helpful. Budge's dictionary is widely available to provide you with the original Pharaonic Egyptian words.
(Also, to have some fun with this site; type in the word "black" and look at the examples, then type in "Egypt" and then note one of the examples: "khme Egypt, the black land" note the gratuitous inclusion of "land" There's absolutely nothing in the word "khme" to mean "land." It's sadly, funny in a way...)
I hope this helps.
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
I, personally, try not to write long topics on the Internet, simply because people read differently on a computer screen (hurriedly) than from a book (with more patience), however I feel compelled to post this lengthy text from alTakruri, simply because of it's excellent treatment of the subject matter. So, please take your time and read it...
quote: Originally posted by alTakruri:
In the below quote Allen admits a recognized meaning of KM not KM.t, which is black in feminine senses. But he adds the definite article which really isn’t indicated just assumed as one could also assume the indefinite article or no article at all. What Allen does not do is provide a single shred of evidence that KM.t.nwt refers to soil. Allen completely ignores that for Km.t to describe soil he needs a word or determinative for soil in immediate proximity to the word KM.t. The determinative NWT does not mean soil and can only mean land in the sense of nation i.e. a national polity. Black soil remains an unsubstantiated Eurocentric inference of unknown origin. It rests on no known primary documentary evidence from the Kmtyw themselves. If they had any idea of such a concept it should be in actual ancient records where black soil proponents can cite KM.t followed by the word or the determinative for soil. This will be a literal lterary philological proof meeting the scientific requirements of replicity and falsifiability as do the already well known terms appearing in the literature left by the ancient Egyptians using the root KM. The literal meaning of KM.t.nwt is not a matter of interpretation and has nothing to do with predetermined ideaologies of any Afro or Euro ethnocentric bias. It is pure objective linguistics. Allen is not approaching the issue with any measure of professional objectivity. He has merely written an antiAfrocentric polemic riddled with self defeating arguments. For instance his phraseology, “possibly due to the color of fertile soil“ admits that this interpretation is nothing more than uncertain guesswork. It is not based on any ancient Egyptian records or reports on ancient Egypt from other ancients. He goes on to briefly explain a limited and elementary symbology of black and red. Out of nowhere he latches onto ink of all things. He does this only as a desperate attempt to find somehow a link between black and red for later use in his polemic even though he firstly admits to the dynamic opposition between black and red. He invokes the Mertz Red Land Black Land oxymoron for T3Wiy. But the Two Lands is a reference to Upper Egypt’s conquest and incorporation of Lower Egypt into the one polity under one pharaoh. The Two Lands cannot bear an interpretation that seeks to include the whole world as Allen would have us believe, “order and chaos, the Black Land and the Red Land.“ Neither Upper nor Lower Egypt ever represented either chaos or the Red Land. Both Upper and Lower Egypt together were KM.t.nwt. Only KM.t.nwt was order. On the otherhand Dshr.t.khast and everything associated with it was chaos and foreign. The ancient Egyptians never called their nation the Red nation. Nowhere is there a text that calls Egypt Dshr.t.nwt. Nwt appears to only be applicable to the Kmtw polity and its fortresses, cities, towns, and villages. Even Kmtw owned colonies generally lack the nwt determinative. When it comes to Allens notion of “a significant part of their lives: the constant opposition of two forces, the linking of two entities“ remains a fantasm of a deluded mind in terms of black and red. The Kmtyw sought to eradicate red chaos not to embrace it in any form. Red chaos was descriptive of the foreign Aamu and Temehu, their residence, and the fauna inhabiting it. Allen has failed to conjure a relationship between red and KM.t.nwt or the Kmtyw. Therefore his conclusion, “the reference to Egypt as ’the black’ had much more to do with the cultivated land versus the desert“ is not supported by any evidence. It remains a predetermined point of view and is a circular argument, i.e., the sole premise is its own derived conclusion. It is totally illogical. At best it aims at bolstering the esteem of ethnocentrics who if they cannot still maintain the outmoded falsehood of an angelfood Egyptian cake must still make certain that the cake is not revealed to be devilfood. One thing Allen said is true, "In order to determine how Egyptians saw themselves ethnically we must use the written and artistic material they left behind." To do exactly that may I recommend a perusal of vignette 30 of the Book of Gates the chapter of Teka Hra shown at http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/Forum8/HTML/001098.html the 12 December 2004 07:16 PM and 13 December 2004 07:39 PM posts.
posted
Thanks Wally. Formatting is important and so here's what I wrote in it's original more readable format as saved by Rasol from way back in Dec 2004 or Jan 2005 at http://phpbb-host.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=25&mforum=thenile#25 'cos I can't find where in the world I originally posted it.
============================================
In the below quote Allen admits a recognized meaning of KM not KM.t, which is black in feminine senses. But he adds the definite article which really isn’t indicated just assumed as one could also assume the indefinite article or no article at all.
What Allen does not do is provide a single shred of evidence that KM.t.nwt refers to soil. Allen completely ignores that for Km.t to describe soil he needs a word or determinative for soil in immediate proximity to the word KM.t. The determinative NWT does not mean soil and can only mean land in the sense of nation i.e. a national polity.
Black soil remains an unsubstantiated Eurocentric inference of unknown origin. It rests on no known primary documentary evidence from the Kmtyw themselves. If they had any idea of such a concept it should be in actual ancient records where black soil proponents can cite KM.t followed by the word or the determinative for soil.
This will be a literal lterary philological proof meeting the scientific requirements of replicity and falsifiability as do the already well known terms appearing in the literature left by the ancient Egyptians using the root KM.
The literal meaning of KM.t.nwt is not a matter of interpretation and has nothing to do with predetermined ideaologies of any Afro or Euro ethnocentric bias. It is pure objective linguistics.
Allen is not approaching the issue with any measure of professional objectivity. He has merely written an antiAfrocentric polemic riddled with self defeating arguments.
For instance his phraseology, “possibly due to the color of fertile soil“ admits that this interpretation is nothing more than uncertain guesswork. It is not based on any ancient Egyptian records or reports on ancient Egypt from other ancients.
He goes on to briefly explain a limited and elementary symbology of black and red. Out of nowhere he latches onto ink of all things. He does this only as a desperate attempt to find somehow a link between black and red for later use in his polemic even though he firstly admits to the dynamic opposition between black and red.
He invokes the Mertz Red Land Black Land oxymoron for T3Wiy. But the Two Lands is a reference to Upper Egypt’s conquest and incorporation of Lower Egypt into the one polity under one pharaoh. The Two Lands cannot bear an interpretation that seeks to include the whole world as Allen would have us believe, “order and chaos, the Black Land and the Red Land.“
Neither Upper nor Lower Egypt ever represented either chaos or the Red Land. Both Upper and Lower Egypt together were KM.t.nwt. Only KM.t.nwt was order. On the otherhand Dshr.t.khast and everything associated with it was chaos and foreign.
The ancient Egyptians never called their nation the Red nation. Nowhere is there a text that calls Egypt Dshr.t.nwt. Nwt appears to only be applicable to the Kmtw polity and its fortresses, cities, towns, and villages. Even Kmtw owned colonies generally lack the nwt determinative.
When it comes to Allens notion of “a significant part of their lives: the constant opposition of two forces, the linking of two entities“ remains a fantasm of a deluded mind in terms of black and red. The Kmtyw sought to eradicate red chaos not to embrace it in any form. Red chaos was descriptive of the foreign Aamu and Temehu, their residence, and the fauna inhabiting it.
Allen has failed to conjure a relationship between red and KM.t.nwt or the Kmtyw. Therefore his conclusion, “the reference to Egypt as ’the black’ had much more to do with the cultivated land versus the desert“ is not supported by any evidence. It remains a predetermined point of view and is a circular argument, i.e., the sole premise is its own derived conclusion. It is totally illogical. At best it aims at bolstering the esteem of ethnocentrics who if they cannot still maintain the outmoded falsehood of an angelfood Egyptian cake must still make certain that the cake is not revealed to be devilfood.
One thing Allen said is true, "In order to determine how Egyptians saw themselves ethnically we must use the written and artistic material they left behind." To do exactly that may I recommend a perusal of vignette 30 of the Book of Gates the chapter of Teka Hra shown at http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/Forum8/HTML/001098.html the 12 December 2004 07:16 PM and 13 December 2004 07:39 PM posts.
quote: from an essay by Katie Jackson cited below: "In order to determine how Egyptians saw themselves ethnically we must use the written and artistic material they left behind. First, the terminology the Egyptians used to refer to themselves, their surroundings, and others, grants some insights into what was important in their identity. For example, one commonly used word for Egypt is kmt, which literally means “the black,” referring to the cultivated land of Egypt that is surrounded by desert, the red land (Allen 2001:470). To some Afrocentrists, though, the use of the term “black” in reference to Egypt must mean that the Egyptians were referring to themselves as black rather than using the color symbolism that permeated their culture (Diop 1989:20). Holders of this belief completely ignore the fact that black was, in general, a positive color in Egypt, possibly due to the color of fertile soil. If the soil was black, it could sustain life; if red, death would result. The term kmt, “black,” contrasted with dsrt, or the “red” of the desert (Allen 2001:22). These two colors were also in use for writing; a scribe’s case had space for two cakes of ink, red and black. Black was used for most writing while red was for headings (Mertz 1966:135). Although this could simply be due to the availability of the two pigments, it does indicate that the two colors were both opposing and linked. Simply claiming that the term kmt for Egypt meant that the Egyptians saw themselves as black the same way that modern populations do ignores the significance behind the colors that the Egyptians used for various purposes. It also ignores the fact that kmt is part of one of many oppositions that permeate the Egyptian worldview; for example, the most common term for Egypt, in fact, was t3wj, or “Two Lands” (Allen 2001:22). Egyptians saw their world as consisting of opposing forces: the Two Lands (Upper and Lower Egypt, which could be identified by various symbols of duality such as the bee and the sedge, the white and red crown, and so forth), order and chaos, the Black Land and the Red Land. To the Egyptians, this was a significant part of their lives: the constant opposition of two forces, the linking of two entities. Thus the reference to Egypt as “the black” had much more to do with the cultivated land versus the desert than it did to the skin color of the land’s inhabitants, which seems to have been irrelevant to the definition of an Egyptian." http://www.focusanthro.org/essays/jackson--03-04.html
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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Keep it up with the etymologies an linguistics. It seems the trolls don't have any rhetoric (distortions) to say about them.
Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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