posted
I can understand it though. Humans are visual. There was recently a poll on another message board I go to that asked what would you rather lose, your sight or hearing?? an overwleming majority of the people chose HEARING.
If someone looks different than you, then that leaves room for discrimination and cliqueism.
I wonder if it's natural though.--Do humans natually gravitate to whats just like them.
It can;t be natural though because it doesn't occur absolutely. *shrugs*
Posts: 290 | Registered: Apr 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Tee85: tutem, simply put, people MADE THE SHYT UP!!!. When you have a way to prove or disprove certain things through the avenue of science(which is the study of the material world aka REALITY) and said science disproves "race" then "race" doesn't EXIST in REALITY.
It's all in OUR minds .
Science cannot prove nor disprove the existence of a "God", therefore it is left to interpretation.
Do you get it now!?!?!?!?
Damn, the mind is powerful--even stronger that reality
I couldn't have put it any better myself! And Rasol is also correct with his synopsis on the history of 'race' and 'racial' typology in Western scholarship!
quote:I can understand it though. Humans are visual. There was recently a poll on another message board I go to that asked what would you rather lose, your sight or hearing?? an overwleming majority of the people chose HEARING.
If someone looks different than you, then that leaves room for discrimination and cliqueism.
I wonder if it's natural though.--Do humans natually gravitate to whats just like them.
It can;t be natural though because it doesn't occur absolutely. *shrugs*
It's natural to gravitate to those similar to you because similar means familiar which usually means safe. But prejudice is NOT natural. Prejudice and discrimination is a social-cultural phenomenon whose existence depends on the culture. In some cultures it is present while in others it is not.
Posts: 26412 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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To Rasol: Good post, but I think if racism being used as a tool against racial constructs didn't exist and every race from the racial construct had an even slate maybe you wouldn't be so against a racial model..that's just my opinion. I totally understand your desire to destruct race from that stand point though no complaint here. It's just that I am not an African American and I really can't identify with the self hate you people have within yourselves so I guess I can't really discern alot of things you say.
To My young padawon Djehuty
Of course phenotype is a real entity but 'race' is about a certain set of phenotypes that are said to correlate with ancestry! Whatever the set of phenotypes is varies and depends on the criteria which itself varies. And of course phenotype does not necessarily correlate with phenotype, so therefor 'race' is null and void. Unlike the existence of God!!
This is circular..sorry it just doesn't make sense.
Which most dictionaries state is outdated and unscientific!
For the millionth time I have said that race is not biological and it's outdated because the model was made years and years ago so I am not in disagreement with a dictionary saying this at all.
LOL And people in Europe burned and murdered folks because of the 'belief' in witches does that mean that witches exist?! People kill and die all the time because of certain beliefs, but that doesn't mean that such beliefs are true!!
You need to re-read this response it is actually going in my favor considering witches dying and killing witches EXISTS.
Because NO evidence has disproved God while much evidence has disproved 'race'!
It's called evolution bro..yeah God or Gods have been disproven lol sorry to tell you.
And how does Evolution disprove God-- that their is a higher power or intelligence? I might argue that evolution only proves the existence of God because evolution could be His plan? Do you disagree??
LOL!!!!!!!!!! I am not going to respond to this for the sake of respect for you because you are a nice guy, but it was very humorous.
Believe me, scientists have tried all too many times! It hasn't worked and it will never work because phenotypic diversity is too great to conform to any single model which is why terms like "caucasoid" and "negroid" are worse than useless- is what a European anthropologist has stated!
I don't have a problem with this at all
Incorrect. I am responding to the concept of God (singular) that YOU brought up! NOT concepts of the divine in general which could many any or many deities and spirits.
Um lol God singular God plural it doesn't matter it's all subjective belief, I don't see your point.
Yes, but it's not really racism but ethnocentrism and ethnic supremacy, thust Greeks were 'racist' against some of their white neighbors and against each other or Chinese were 'racist' against other East Asians. No "model" involved, that is just a part of many (but not all) human societies!
This is also in my favor because I never said 100% of the world has or has to conform to race, but you have shown that ENOUGH do to make it rather substantial.
And your assertion is based on what exactly??! What is your premise that Akhenaton was as you say "mixed"?!
Yuya might possibly be his father or grandfather he was a mitanni
LMAO You prove my point exactly while shooting yourself in the face!! There are Africans much lighter in color than the Maasai, there are Africans who don't have nappy hair, does this mean they are all of different 'races'?!! What about the fact that according to you, African Americans have "fat" lips but the Maasai doesn't?-- Does that mean African Americans are of a different 'race' from the Maasai!! LOL
LOL, you asked me what his race was did you not? And I told you..what seems to be the problem if you gave me another example I would have told you that as well.
Not really, because when it comes to belief in one God, that is a belief that all monotheists share regardless of relgion!
LOL!!!! Almost as funny as an above response.
Well in the case of religious belief in general, yes it is subjective like 'race' is, but 'race' has been disproven while many religions, especially those which espouse God has NOT.
Your point?
You have an interesting perspective on reality but ummm all religions have been disproven by science dude what century do you live in LOL?
Posts: 141 | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
^ Indeed. He just can't get it. Perhaps he's not smart enought to.
quote:Originally posted by tutemkasret: To Supercar: Very good post
To Rasol: Good post, but I think if racism being used as a tool against racial constructs didn't exist and every race from the racial construct had an even slate maybe you wouldn't be so against a racial model..that's just my opinion. I totally understand your desire to destruct race from that stand point though no complaint here. It's just that I am not an African American and I really can't identify with the self hate you people have within yourselves so I guess I can't really discern alot of things you say.
Being African American or not has nothing to do with it. It is simple logic and common sense.
quote:To My young padawon Djehuty
Of course phenotype is a real entity but 'race' is about a certain set of phenotypes that are said to correlate with ancestry!
To my young Star Wars geek:
That it incorrect because phenotype does not necessarily correlate with lineage, and lineage does not always produce a certain phenotype. Therefore there are really no 'races'.
quote:This is circular..sorry it just doesn't make sense.
It makes perfect sense. You just don't understand it.
quote:Which most dictionaries state is outdated and unscientific!
From Dictionary.com-- any of the traditional divisions of humankind, the commonest being the Caucasian, Mongoloid, and Negro, characterized by supposedly distinctive and universal physical characteristics: no longer in technical use.
But Britannica puts it nicely. --Today the term has little scientific standing, as older methods of differentiation, including hair form and body measurement, have given way to the comparative analysis of DNA and gene frequencies relating to such factors as blood typing, the excretion of amino acids, and inherited enzyme deficiencies. Because all human populations today are extremely similar genetically, most researchers have abandoned the concept of race for the concept of the cline, a graded series of differences occurring along a line of environmental or geographical transition. This reflects the recognition that human populations have always been in a state of flux, with genes constantly flowing from one gene pool to another, impeded only by physical or ecological boundaries. While relative isolation does preserve genetic differences and allow populations to maximally adapt to climatic and disease factors over long periods of time, all groups currently existing are thoroughly “mixed” genetically, and such differences as still exist do not lend themselves to simple typologizing. “Race” is today primarily a sociological designation, identifying a class sharing some outward physical characteristics and some commonalities of culture and history.
quote:For the millionth time I have said that race is not biological and it's outdated because the model was made years and years ago so I am not in disagreement with a dictionary saying this at all.
So what's the problem, then?
quote:You need to re-read this response it is actually going in my favor considering witches dying and killing witches EXISTS.
LMAO So you mean to tell me that all those people killed in Europe were actually 'witches'?! So you believe in witches but not God?
quote:It's called evolution bro..yeah God or Gods have been disproven lol sorry to tell you.
And explain exactly how does evolution refute the existence of a higher entity-- God??!
quote:LOL!!!!!!!!!! I am not going to respond to this for the sake of respect for you because you are a nice guy, but it was very humorous.
And exactly how was my response "humorous"?? It makes perfect sense unlike YOUR repsonses. Seriously, your rhetoric sounds more silly than that of my 3 year old cousin! LMAO
quote:I don't have a problem with this at all.
You don't act like it.
quote:Um lol God singular God plural it doesn't matter it's all subjective belief, I don't see your point.
Yes religious belief in general are subjective, but I was talking about God (singular) which YOU brought up, not religions in general. Don't try to befuddle the argument. It's not working.
quote:This is also in my favor because I never said 100% of the world has or has to conform to race, but you have shown that ENOUGH do to make it rather substantial.
So you agree that the Greeks were of a different 'race' from their European neigbors or that the Chinese were a different 'race' from the Mongols?! So I take it you find the racial distinction that Japanese place themselves from Koreans to also be substantial.(?)
quote:Yuya might possibly be his father or grandfather he was a mitanni
LOL Yuya was the 'father' of Tiye NOT Akhenaton! Yuya was not royalty nor a part of the 18th dynasty family, but was a nobleman in the court of the 18th dynasty. Even then, it is doubtful he was the biological father of Tiye, since.. well have you seen Tiye's depictions? Akhenaton's father was most likely Amenhotep III or a close relative of Amenhotep.
quote:LOL, you asked me what his race was did you not? And I told you..what seems to be the problem if you gave me another example I would have told you that as well.
LMAO Well, since again you fail to see what the "problem" is, then my answers obviously just keep flying over your head. The point I made was that the 'race' you give contradicts other people's racial 'models' which comes to show how silly racial models are!
quote:LOL!!!! Almost as funny as an above response.
Yes, and special-ed kids from my highschool find many things they don't understand to be "funny".
quote:Your point?
My point is, while both religion and 'race' are subjective. 'Race' has been debunnked while the existence in God has not! Did I make it simple enough for you to understand?
quote:You have an interesting perspective on reality but ummm all religions have been disproven by science dude what century do you live in LOL?
LMAO That's funny considering I'm a scienc major. Again I ask, can you provide us scientfic studies which disprove the existence of God?? I've read many scientific journals and peer reviewed studies, but non have mentioned anything about disproving modern faith. What world do you live in?
Posts: 26412 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
LMAO So you mean to tell me that all those people killed in Europe were actually 'witches'?! So you believe in witches but not God?
They don’t have to be witches…the imagination of the killers are the only things that have to be the witches…I have explained this thoroughly to you. You believe in a mythical God that doesn’t exist, but it DOES exist because you believe it subjectively and you perceive this God from your own thoughts which is the same as race.
And explain exactly how does evolution refute the existence of a higher entity-- God??!
Now you look retarded what the hell is a higher “entity” the klng of England LOL???!!!!!!!!!
Yes religious belief in general are subjective, but I was talking about God (singular) which YOU brought up, not religions in general. Don't try to befuddle the argument. It's not working
I am trying to befuddle..yet YOUR GOD IS THE ONLY GOD(in my best hick accent) man you can’t be serious *rolling eyes*
So you agree that the Greeks were of a different 'race' from their European neigbors or that the Chinese were a different 'race' from the Mongols?! So I take it you find the racial distinction that Japanese place themselves from Koreans to also be substantial.(?)
Ancient xenophobia is not the same as the modern construct of race *sigh*
LOL Yuya was the 'father' of Tiye NOT Akhenaton! Yuya was not royalty nor a part of the 18th dynasty family, but was a nobleman in the court of the 18th dynasty. Even then, it is doubtful he was the biological father of Tiye, since.. well have you seen Tiye's depictions? Akhenaton's father was most likely Amenhotep III or a close relative of Amenhotep.
There is a possibility that Yuya was the father of Akenaton, Amenhotep III and Tutankamun through his daughter Tiye..but this is not related to the topic I was just commenting on what you said.
LMAO Well, since again you fail to see what the "problem" is, then my answers obviously just keep flying over your head. The point I made was that the 'race' you give contradicts other people's racial 'models' which comes to show how silly racial models are!
You are saying the masaai wouldn’t have been called BLACK?!?!?!? LMAO!!!!!!!!
My point is, while both religion and 'race' are subjective. 'Race' has been debunnked while the existence in God has not! Did I make it simple enough for you to understand?
Man, sky daddy’s have been found dude so YES not only has God been disproven, science is not going to eve waste it’s time doing something so silly and that’s what you fail to realize. All gods come from kings at one time they aren’t floating in the sky yet they ARE higher powers *hint* *hint*
LMAO That's funny considering I'm a scienc major. Again I ask, can you provide us scientfic studies which disprove the existence of God?? I've read many scientific journals and peer reviewed studies, but non have mentioned anything about disproving modern faith. What world do you live in?
Read the above response.
I don’t want to start any bad blood between me and you, you seem like a nice guy. The reason you would have lost this debate if it were real is because each person has their own criteria and judgment based on their own perception of reality and I have meticulously given you my criteria for race existing and you have not given yours own how it doesn’t. All you have given me is what someone else has said about race while agreeing with them based on the desire to be politically correct and the fact that they have “authority”(p.h.d etc.) to do so. This is a contradiction based on the fact the same people with p.h.d’s constructed a model of race to begin with. The funny thing about this pseudo Egyptian sit is that the God Ptah explains everything that I have explained and you just don’t seem to get it. Existence is absolute, but perception is not, so you can’t base reality on someone else’s (scientists) perceptions and say you are correct and I am incorrect and it’s funny that the Egyptians would be agreeing with me now if they still existed and not you and yet we are on an Egyptian site. But you are young so we live and learn I just don’t understand how you can believe in a God yet be such a materialist..very stange indeed..at any rate it was good discussing this with you no love lost.
Posts: 141 | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
So, if I say to myself, and think real hard that Gravity doesn't exist, then It doesn't because of my own warped, dimented perception???
You have GOT to be phuckin kidding me.
Just end the argument by saying race exist in my own little mind(it exist in the minds of alot of people consciously and subconsciously).
People's perceptions have no baring on reality.
And what's reality??? Reality is the shyt that occurs whether we like it or not, Whether we psych ouselves out or not. It will not change it. It may make us feel better, but it won't change it.
Science is the study of the real, actual MATERIAL world--the stuff we can SEE that actually exist--not our perceptions. Race doesn't seem to be apart of that.
Reality is not subjective.
If I stab you, you will bleed red blood(if you're human) That's reality.
God is up in the air (no pun intended)He/she/it can be neither proven nor disproven. So that's a bad analogy with regards to race.
Leme see...you woulda doen better by comparing "race" and "beauty" and not race and God. You would have still be circumventing but still....it's a better comparison.
posted
So, if I say to myself, and think real hard that Gravity doesn't exist, then It doesn't because of my own warped, dimented perception???
Bad analogy of rebuttal because..
1. You are talking about a “force” that is not material to where we are talking about humans that are.
2. Gravity is natural there for it exists regardless of perception.(remember I said reality is the PERCEPTION of “existence”)
3. Remember, people didn’t always believe in gravity they thought Gods are holding them down lol. So this would be about the lines of perceiving what the gravitational force “ought”(perception, reality) rather than the gravitational force “is”(nature, existence)
Nice try, but no cigar! Not only that, but that was a dangerous argument on your part because now some quack could say “disprove that Gods are not holding us down” lol you see what you did?? Especially when you say for some insane reason that Gods cannot be disproved…. ehhhh wrong!!!!
Just end the argument by saying race exist in my own little mind(it exist in the minds of alot of people consciously and subconsciously).
I ended it and by saying it exists in the minds of a lot of people consciously and subconsciously ummmm yeah that’s what I am saying dude lol.
People's perceptions have no baring on reality.
People’s perceptions have no baring on existence is what you should say, but even this is wrong and here’s why. A man can stand in front of a moving bus on the street and be in some drug induced state and think the bus is a big breasted woman. His perception of the object(the bus) created his reality, BUT existence/nature is going to run his dumb ass over. So if you said the above statement that I corrected; correctly; in this example you would correct. BUT, if a European has the perception/reality that black Africans should be killed and enslaved with no natural/existing material evidence of such a reason to do so; that doesn’t mean by doing that the Africans don’t get killed or enslaved which would be “naturally occurring in existence”. So yes people’s perception DO have baring on “existence”.
And what's reality??? Reality is the shyt that occurs whether we like it or not, Whether we psych ouselves out or not. It will not change it. It may make us feel better, but it won't change it.
That would be “nature” not reality.
Reality is not subjective.
Sure it is..Two brothers go to a car dealership to buy a car together. Tom says this car sucks and Bob says this car is awesome..in nature it is a car..in reality it is a Good car and a Bad car. So now with your statement you are saying there is an objective perception of the car?!?!? I think not mine timid negro.
If I stab you, you will bleed red blood(if you're human) That's reality.
That’s natural…whether it hurts or not is reality *wink*
God is up in the air (no pun intended)He/she/it can be neither proven nor disproven. So that's a bad analogy with regards to race.
It’s a perfect analogy considering people believe in it yet there is no material evidence for it..which is what he is saying race is. The only so called disproving of race is based on previous classifications of race being contradicted presently with the former and existing model of anthropology. In my analogy that would be like saying Osirus doesn’t exist because Jesus Christ does based on new findings that contradict Egyptian hieroglyphs i.e the Bible lol.
Leme see...you woulda doen better by comparing "race" and "beauty" and not race and God. You would have still be circumventing but still....it's a better comparison.
Nope, because beauty is an emotional response to an appearance based on a “value” of the criteria of the perceiver. Race does not have to be valued emotionally, but just rather differentiated.
1. which one is haplotype H on the map, I am kind of color blind can you tell me the general area where it says it on there so I can distinguish it between the other colors
2. At what time period to these haplotypes represent...do any slave trades or colonization have anything to do with this dispersal of porported haplotypes or are these all before that era?
3. What do the numbers represent?
Posts: 141 | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
^ No need because his logically bankrupt fallacies only demean and humilate himself.
Just a word to all the intelligent people out there. Gravity is an objective phenomenon we know exists, 'race' is NOT. Race exists in peoples minds, but its classifications are subjective to the individual. Gravity is not for it is the exact same everywhere for everyone.
In Europe, people murdered others because they thought they were witches. The acts were real enough, but the reasons were NOT.
All intelligent people know what I'm talking about, while the unintelligent don't.
Case close.
Posts: 26412 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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tutem, simply put, people MADE THE SHYT UP!!!. When you have a way to prove or disprove certain things through the avenue of science(which is the study of the material world aka REALITY) and said science disproves "race" then "race" doesn't EXIST in REALITY.![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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And exactly how was my response "humorous"?? It makes perfect sense unlike YOUR repsonses. Seriously, your rhetoric sounds more silly than that of my 3 year old cousin! LMAO ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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