Phillip sees mdw ntjr spelling n-m-y at the top right, permitting him to identify those near it as a "Nubian" subset people by that name Nmyw.
*Top right, where specifically, and represented by which symbols?
*Where exactly are the "Nmyw" supposed to have been located, geographically?
From what I can tell, for the two sets of four figures kneeling, the scriptures above the top two kneeling figures of each set appear to be the same. The scriptures below their arms seem to vary. Looking at the set with bearded figures, the scripture below the arms of the top figure appears to be distinct from that below the bearded figure beneath him.
Again, this image is not the first time diversity is depicted in "Pwnt" imagery. In one instance, we even come across a double horned rhinoceros, which is typical of the Asian type but atypical of the African counterpart. We also come across pygmies in "Pwnt".
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I don't know n-m-y to be used for any ethny. The variant uses I find for n-m-w range from dwarf to a person on the move.
If the word indeed means dwarf I'd wager they are a subset of Pwntyw but the art doesn't indicate anything diminutive about the man's size or limbs, or relative largeness of his head.
Also note the one Nmyw and the three other guys are in a register a tier above the Pwanit scene (from which repros they are usually cropped).
See, no Nmyw and partner right below this splat ---*.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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To Mystery, Perhaps Phillip labelled the top registry of people as "Nubians" because of their more pronounced features, if you know what I mean(?)
To Macawiis: As far as clothing, I don't see anything particularly Somali about them. Do Somali men wear any tight-fitting skull caps that appear to be worn by the high-ranking Puntite men such as Parahu (and which is also shown worn by some Egyptian gods)? The round houses do look somewhat reminiscent of Somali nomad homes except for the stilts which indicate their lands get periodically flooded. Also, is the Somali etymology of the names 'Parahu' and 'Ati' anyway? I believe Yom gave me the Ethio-Semitic ones. I remember hearing that 'Ati' means cushion in Somali as it did in Egyptian, is this correct?
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Nmyw with other than the usual character for 'm' appears semi-encircled by the arm, chest, and thigh of the guy on the left.
I don't n-m-y to be used for any ethny. The variant uses I find for it range from dwarf to r
Based on your description of the position, the words that I can make out from the location in question are the bird on the far left representing the 'w', the parallel feather-like figures representing the 'y', the wavy line representing the 'n', the figure on the far end of the scripture in question, doesn't seem too visible, but it looks like a sickle-like or hook-like structure, which I believe is an alternative figure for the 'm' sound(?), besides the 'owl' representing the same.
Having said that, recap:
From what I can tell, for the two sets of four figures kneeling, the scriptures above the top two kneeling figures of each set appear to be the same. The scriptures below their arms seem to vary. Looking at the set with bearded figures, the scripture below the arms of the top figure appears to be distinct from that below the bearded figure beneath him.
Similarly, the person with the said "wynm"/"wymn" beneath his arms, in that order from left to right, or as read by al Takruri, 'nmyw" possibly from right to left, follows another beardless figure, where the scripture below the arms of this figure are distinct from that of the figure associated with the "nmyw" scripture; here we see birds. The guys beneath the two top fellows just described, also have scriptures unique to each. This same situation is applied in the set of four figures with beards beneath the top set, which includes the "nmyw" scripture.
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri:
See, no Nmyw and partner right below this splat ---*.
Though, I do see part of the top set of the first four kneeling figures, in terms of the two lower lying figures from that set. This can be seen from the felid figure following the walking figure, who in turn follows the first set of kneeling figures at the top portion of the imagery.
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Incredibly clever comment, definitely one fact could possibly never have thought about.
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: I doubt if anyone here can post a better set of photos than Mohamed Diriye himself. Seems like he knows more about Somalia and the nomads he is referencing than anyone here.
Does this Ramesside actually depicts Ity or the then current reigning Punt Queen? In other terms, is the fatness of the Queen is a Puntite cultural feature (such as with the Candaces), or is it peculiar to Hatchepsut's time Puntite Queen?
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posted
The one and only person labeled Nmyw does not appear at all in this repro. That was the importance of my posting both repros in a fashion enabling scrutiny of that particular detail.
The mdw ntjr under question cannot be read as wymn. The direction the character letters face rules out any such possibility.
The "uniqueness" of the glyphs is what allows us to read them and infer the pictures realtionship to the text in that all the peoples can be identified in one way or another (ethnicity, function, rank, personal name, etc.)
quote:Originally posted by Mystery Solver: From what I can tell, for the two sets of four figures kneeling, the scriptures above the top two kneeling figures of each set appear to be the same. The scriptures below their arms seem to vary. Looking at the set with bearded figures, the scripture below the arms of the top figure appears to be distinct from that below the bearded figure beneath him.
Similarly, the person with the said "wynm"/"wymn" beneath his arms, in that order from left to right, or as read by al Takruri, 'nmyw" possibly from right to left, follows another beardless figure, where the scripture below the arms of this figure are distinct from that of the figure associated with the "nmyw" scripture; here we see birds. The guys beneath the two top fellows just described, also have scriptures unique to each. This same situation is applied in the set of four figures with beards beneath the top set, which includes the "nmyw" scripture.
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri:
See, no Nmyw and partner right below this splat ---*.
Though, I do see part of the top set of the first four kneeling figures, in terms of the two lower lying figures from that set. This can be seen from the felid figure following the walking figure, who in turn follows the first set of kneeling figures at the top portion of the imagery.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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The one and only person labeled Nmyw does not appear at all in this repro. That was the importance of my posting both repros in a fashion enabling scrutiny of that particular detail.
I'm reading the glyphs of the following 'blown up' repro showing what Phillip was supposedly calling "Nubian"...in the left to right direction, as I have noted. Reading it this way, has nothing to do with whether reading left to right is the right way, or reading vice versa, but more to demonstrating the sequence of letters as I observe them, in the form of glyphs. I've placed the letters of the glyphs in two possible directions, left to right [as I have read them], or right to left, which seems to match "nmyw" or else "mnyw", here...
^To that extent, recapitulating my observations:
Based on your description of the position, the words that I can make out from the location in question are the bird on the far left representing the 'w', the parallel feather-like figures representing the 'y', the wavy line representing the 'n', the figure on the far end of the scripture in question, doesn't seem too visible, but it looks like a sickle-like or hook-like structure, which I believe is an alternative figure for the 'm' sound(?), besides the 'owl' representing the same.
^Descibing each letter-to-glyph correspondence as I see them on the blown up repro.
With regards to the two topmost beardless kneeling figures, if the glyphs immediately preceding [if reading from right to left, and 'proceeding' if reading from left to right] the kneeling figure on the left isn't the glyphs you're referring to, then which particular glyphs are you referring to? And if the said 'blow up' version, showing what Phillip calls [yet to be substantiated] "Nubians", then what other repro are you referring to?
The following zoomed out repro of the relief was only posted in relation to this [following] comment of your's; it has nothing to do with my observations of the above scripture:
Originally posted by alTakruri:
See, no Nmyw and partner right below this splat ---*.
Mystery Solver replied:
Though, I do see part of the top set of the first four kneeling figures, in terms of the two lower lying figures from that set. This can be seen from the felid figure following the walking figure, who in turn follows the first set of kneeling figures at the top portion of the imagery.
^This has nothing to do with the blown up version, but the zoomed out version.
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quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Oh no! You mean as in more cushion for the pushin'?
LOL
No! It's just an affectionate term, not a sexual one. 'Cushion' as in offers comfort.
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