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Author Topic: what are indiginous egyptian surnames and what are forighn surnames
youssef
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can u tell by a persons surname if they are pure egyptian or mostly egyptian and can u tell if they are foreighners
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ausar
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Hello youssef,

Actually, most Fallahin don't have surnames with the exception of some in Sa3eed that can sometimes indicate foreign origins. Your question of who is pure and who is not in modern Egypt is rather complex due to the time frame from ancient to modern Egypt. I would say that Fallahin and the Sa3eedi are the purest and even the Nubians but even these groups have some foreign admixture dating both during the New Kingdom period into the post pharaonic era and Medieval era in Egypt.


The three groups mentioned are definately purest when compaired to Egyptians overall. Adixture with foreigners probably also breaks down to old vs. new rich Egyptians. Lots of old families in Egypt that are wealthy have Turkish and sometimes Egyptian and Turkish roots.


I don't know of any Egyptian surnames that are indigenous but I do know that some Egyptian names used by both Christian and Muslims probably have ancient Egyptian origins. One for example is Bayoumi which means ''of the Sea'' and possibly others. Many others probably exist as well.

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youssef
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what do you mean by lots of old familes
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youssef
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did foreighners lave surnames behind in egypt
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ausar
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When I say old families I mean modern Egyptian families that have wealth before the Revolution of 1952. Many of these same families are still wealthy today and still have clout in modern Egyptian society.

Many times sur-names are indication of foreign origins but not always. You might have heard of the Abaza family in Egypt well they have Circassian ancestry.

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Djehuti
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^I assume our old troll friend of the same name comes from that family. (?)
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youssef
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ok i appreciate the information
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youssef
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also when referring to the delta people always say that the delta is mostly foreighners and are people of foreighn ancestry but i htink this is not true in all areas of the delta you will find normally half the area whie and the other half black,i always hear poeople saying delta egyptian are hardly egyptian but this isn ot true unless you see it with your own eyes,at time in the delta you can find a neibourhood with a black looking majority
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ausar
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youssef said:
quote:
also when referring to the delta people always say that the delta is mostly foreighners and are people of foreighn ancestry but i htink this is not true in all areas of the delta you will find normally half the area whie and the other half black,i always hear poeople saying delta egyptian are hardly egyptian but this isn ot true unless you see it with your own eyes,at time in the delta you can find a neibourhood with a black looking majority
Youssef, I have never been to the rural villages in the Delta or around northern Egypt that much. I do know historically that many foreigners have migrated and settled in the Delta from the pharaonic period down to the Islamic period. Infact,during the Umayyad caliph the eastern Delta bedouins from Syria were settled in these areas. Over time other groups settled like Moroccans,Syrians and even Circassians. The following applies to the rural countryside in the Delta but in the towns and cities much more foreigners have settled.


In the cities there is some overlap between foreigners and indigenous populations. Cities like Cairo have historically had foreigners and Egyptians from both the rural Delta and southern Egypt. The quarters that house rural migrants from the Delta or southern Egypt are called balad or sba'aabi. Typically, the lower classes in Cairo come from both rural Delta and southern Egyptian areas.


As in the Delta, you also have some villages that have desendants of settled bedouin communities or even Maghrebians in Middle Egypt. Historically,though, the highest concentraition of foreigners have always been in the Delta either from the pharaonic period down to Islamic era and beyond.

BTW, are you from the Delta youssef? Would you happen to be a fallah?


Djehuti, let sleeping dogs lie. To answer your question, I honestly don't know if the said former ''troll'' has any relation to the Abaza family but possibly since he keep registered a couple times with Turkish type names.

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youssef
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i am from mansoura and yes my family are fellahin,my family move to cairo after the 1952 revolution,me being from mansoura i dont really look from the delta i get mistaken for a said'i and a uncle of myn belives i look maghrebi,i live in australia,i get mistaken for brazillian,indian,aboriginal,mauritian never once have i been seen by people from australia as egyptian because i think most egyptian here are coptics,i am muslim and was looking threw this site when i got intersted in egyptian history
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youssef
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i hear on this forum that most people from mansoura are white but i dont know if this is true because i ahve never been to the mansoura,me being darker skinned am I a minority for a person originating in mansoura?my old man looks saidi so i dunt no if this is odd for a person from mansoura .are you able to tell me this
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ausar
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Youssef, I have had the same experiance as you only being mistaken for Puerto Rican,Brazilian,African-American and Dominican. I find it interesting you are mistaken for those nationalities. I can definately understand this since I live in NYC.

I am not a Fallahin but a Sa3eedi from around Luxor.


As far as Mansoura,I don't really know because I never been there. Mansoura has a reputation for being the area where Fallaha were raped by the French thus often having some blonde haired and fair skinned people. I don't think the majority of Mansoura are like this. Just something associated with legend in Egypt. A poster named Mutisphinx's mother is from the Delta and he tells me that dark brown people are not rare there.

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youssef
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yes i dont think its rare but at the same time its not the majority but still you see some indigineous feautures in these areas and its not totally dominated by othere people coming into the country
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youssef
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i thik egypt is a lot like brazil with its people im not sying there oigins are the same but some origins are similar like brazil have mixed indian,european and african origins and so dose egypt excluding the indian but lots of people because of the mixture tend to look like indians in egypt,they tend to have dark skin with straight hair like me,in my family my brother is lighter than me but his skin could still pass for black and he has african hair and i have the darker skin and have straight hair what do you mAKE OF THIS AND ALOT OF TIMES I SEE THIS IN EGYPTIAN FAMILYS
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youssef
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wat do u think AUSAR
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Truthcentric
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quote:
Originally posted by youssef:
can u tell by a persons surname if they are pure egyptian or mostly egyptian and can u tell if they are foreighners

What do you mean by "indigenous" versus "foreign"? I think all Egyptians these days have Arabic surnames (and first names), except perhaps a few in some heretofore unknown enclaves who have miraculously preserved their dynastic heritage genetically and culturally.
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ausar
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Underpants Man said:
quote:
What do you mean by "indigenous" versus "foreign"? I think all Egyptians these days have Arabic surnames (and first names), except perhaps a few in some heretofore unknown enclaves who have miraculously preserved their dynastic heritage genetically and culturally
No disrespect Underpants Man,but you should not speak on issues you know little about. I already answered youssef question and I would know this better since I am a Egyptian. To answer you surnames are not common with rural Fellahin in the Delta and Middle Egypt but some people in southern Egypt have them but lots of foreigners also have surnames. Usually the foreigners are Turkish,Cricassian,or Albanian.


BTW,youssef, do you have yahoo messenger? I would like to talk to you more about ancient and modern Egypt.

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youssef
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ahhhhh yes i do have ms messenger its
ykassaby_egypt@hotmail.com

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youssef
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when you say foreigners do u mean full or part
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youssef
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also ausar what do you think about indigenous egyptians in the delta do they exist if they do how much,im talking bout delta people that originated there not came there not come there from middle or upper egypt
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ausar
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I think the Fallahin in the Delta are indigenous but with more foreign influences than other areas in Egypt. Of course, the following is subject to each village in the Delta. Lots of the customs amongst the rural Fallahin are very similar to the Sa3eedi people in southern Egypt. The larger towns and cities in the Delta are probably subject to even greater foreign influences.


As far as the surnames, you have elite Egyptians that have either a pure Albanian,Greek and Turkish background or indigenous Egyptians that have intermarried throughly with these following foreign groups.


I downloaded MSN messenger but I cannot figure how to send text to you. What time are you usually on? I know since you live in Australia we are on two different time scales.

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ausar
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up
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youssef
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ummm i would usually be on round 9pm to 12midnight and stay up normally in the morning around 2am so it would be around 12 mid day in america
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youssef
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how do i post pictures in the forum
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Whatbox
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*type the pictures url (address/name) in between
[img] * [/img] image, end image
(* = url)


Example: the EgyptSearch.com pyramid logo

Below is it's url:
http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ubbegsearchlogo.gif

^^It's name is ubbegsearchlogo.gif

You can find the url by searching for a picture,

then clicking on it until you get to the picture and you will then have it's address.

It's most helpful if you know it's name.

Or you can just right click on the picture, go to properties, and you'll have the adress or url.

Below: Back to our url.

*type the pictures url (address/name) in between
[img] * [/img] image, end image
(* = url)

Example: the EgyptSearch.com pyramid logo

Below again, it's url:
http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ubbegsearchlogo.gif[/b]

remember, it goes like this - [img] *url* [/img]

Try this out and you should get:

voila!
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Whatbox
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^^the one that goes like this:

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ubbegsearchlogo.gif[/b]

is incorrect, The first one:

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ubbegsearchlogo.gif

is ok tho.

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