It has been pointed out in this forum, by quoting letters from the journals themselves, that your "papers" are comments and they did not undergo the refereed process. They do not count as "refereed" papers.
quote:That dosen't matter they are published in refereed journals. I will be posting other articles in the future as they are published.
The fact of the matter is that unrefereed comments do not count as "publications in a refereed journal". You can call them what you like. I hope that future comments will not be as confused as the reply to your comment shows.
"Reply to Winters Dear Sir, The origins of Dravidian speaking populations of South Asia have been a matter of scientific debate over many decades. In our recent review on the genetic affinities of Indian tribal and caste populations,(1) we concluded that both Indo- European- and Dravidian-speaking populations of India share largely the same pool of mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) lineages that has evolved in situ in South Asia since the Out-of-Africa migration of anatomically modern humans (AMH) some 5070 KYA. Dr. Clyde Winters in his correspondence(2) to our paper disagrees with this view and argues instead that there are linguistic, archaeological as well as genetic evidences for a relatively recent African origin of Dravidian populations. For a recent discussion on the origin of Dravidian languages, the reader is referred to a monograph by B. Krishnamurti.(3) MtDNA-based genetic arguments provided by Dr. Winters in favor of gene flow from Africa to Dravidian-speaking Indians are, however, entirely erroneous. The author has been, unfortunately, confused by overlooking changes in mtDNA haplogroup (hg) nomenclature. Namely hg, M1 in Kivisild et al.(4) has been later changed to hg M3, in order to avoid parallel nomenclatures.(5) Furthermore, a recent dedicated paper on phylogeography of mtDNA hg M1(6) as well as an extensive comparative mapping of autosomal genetic markers among many Indian populations relative to global populations elsewhere, including Africans,(7) do not provide any clues for a putative recent gene flow, from Africa, to Dravidian-speaking populations in South Asia. References 1. Chaubey G, Metspalu M, Kivisild T, Villems, R. 2007. Peopling of South Asia: investigating the caste-tribe continuum in India. Bioessays 29:91100. 2. Winters C. 2007. BioEssays 29:497498. 3. Krishnamurti B. 2003. The Dravidian Languages 1-574: Cambridge University Press 4. Kivisild T, Kaldma K, Metspalu M, Parik J, Papiha S, Villems R. 1999. The place of the Indian mtDNA variants in the global network of maternal lineages and the peopling of the Old World. In Deka R, Papiha SS. eds Genomic Diversity Kluwer Academic/Plenum Publishers New York p 135 152. 5. Quintana-Murci L, Semino O, Bandelt H-J., Passarino G, McElreavey K, Santachiara-Benerecetti AS. 1999. Genetic evidence of an early exit of Homo sapiens sapiens from Africa through eastern Africa. Nat Genet 23: 437441. 6. Olivieri A, Achilli A, Pala M, Battaglia V, Fornarino S. et al. 2006. The mtDNA legacy of the Levantine early Upper Palaeolithic in Africa. Science 314:17671770. 7. Rosenberg NA, Mahajan S, Gonzalez-Quevedo C, Blum MGB, Nino- Rosales L. et al. 2007. Low Levels of Genetic Divergence across Geographically and Linguistically Diverse Populations from India. PLoS Genet 2:e215. Gyaneshwer Chaubey* Mait Metspalu Richard Villems Department of Evolutionary Biology Institute of Molecular and Cell Biology University of Tartu and Estonian Biocentre Tartu, Estonia Toomas Kivisild Leverhulme Centre of Human Evolutionary Studies The Henry Wellcome Building University of Cambridge Fitzwilliam Street Cambridge. UK CB21QH DOI 10.1002/bies.20574 Published online in Wiley InterScience (www.interscience.wiley.com). BioEssays 29:499, 2007 Wiley Periodicals, Inc. BioEssays 29.5 499 *Correspondence to: Gyaneshwer Chaubey, Department of Evolutionary Biology, Institute of Molecular and Cell Biology, University of Tartu and Estonian Biocentre, Tartu, Estonia. E-mail: gyanc@ebc.ee Correspondence
Posts: 833 | From: Austin, TX | Registered: Jan 2007
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posted
Poor foolish Clyde accuses me of being an "anti-African racist" when I merely point out the flaws in his bogus psuedo-scholarly work! He even goes so far as to distort legitimate scholarly studies and quoting them out of context, something that anti-black racists trolls like Evil-Euro did!!
quote:Originally posted by rasol: What you quoted is not only outdated, [ignorance of Herto Man dated at at least 150 ky], but it contradicts you.
Prominent chin and vertical forehead are precisely the traits that led early anthropologist to claim that Cro-Magnon was 'caucasoid', because those are traits that modern Europeans have.
The position of the article you quoted is precisely that Cro-Magnon are forebearers of modern Europeans. It is not that CroMagnon are "negro".
However in reality many Cromagnon do not have those traits. Many have recessive chin, and sloping forehead and round face and are prognathous.
In other words...you would have done better to quote something that actually does not so badly contradict your contentions.
By quoting the above, you only showed us that you don't understand what anthropologists are saying.
quote:Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl: The fact of the matter is that unrefereed comments do not count as "publications in a refereed journal". You can call them what you like. I hope that future comments will not be as confused as the reply to your comment shows.
"Reply to Winters Dear Sir, The origins of Dravidian speaking populations of South Asia have been a matter of scientific debate over many decades. In our recent review on the genetic affinities of Indian tribal and caste populations,(1) we concluded that both Indo- European- and Dravidian-speaking populations of India share largely the same pool of mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) lineages that has evolved in situ in South Asia since the Out-of-Africa migration of anatomically modern humans (AMH) some 5070 KYA. Dr. Clyde Winters in his correspondence(2) to our paper disagrees with this view and argues instead that there are linguistic, archaeological as well as genetic evidences for a relatively recent African origin of Dravidian populations. For a recent discussion on the origin of Dravidian languages, the reader is referred to a monograph by B. Krishnamurti.(3) MtDNA-based genetic arguments provided by Dr. Winters in favor of gene flow from Africa to Dravidian-speaking Indians are, however, entirely erroneous. The author has been, unfortunately, confused by overlooking changes in mtDNA haplogroup (hg) nomenclature. Namely hg, M1 in Kivisild et al.(4) has been later changed to hg M3, in order to avoid parallel nomenclatures.(5) Furthermore, a recent dedicated paper on phylogeography of mtDNA hg M1(6) as well as an extensive comparative mapping of autosomal genetic markers among many Indian populations relative to global populations elsewhere, including Africans,(7) do not provide any clues for a putative recent gene flow, from Africa, to Dravidian-speaking populations in South Asia. References 1. Chaubey G, Metspalu M, Kivisild T, Villems, R. 2007. Peopling of South Asia: investigating the caste-tribe continuum in India. Bioessays 29:91100. 2. Winters C. 2007. BioEssays 29:497498. 3. Krishnamurti B. 2003. The Dravidian Languages 1-574: Cambridge University Press 4. Kivisild T, Kaldma K, Metspalu M, Parik J, Papiha S, Villems R. 1999. The place of the Indian mtDNA variants in the global network of maternal lineages and the peopling of the Old World. In Deka R, Papiha SS. eds Genomic Diversity Kluwer Academic/Plenum Publishers New York p 135 152. 5. Quintana-Murci L, Semino O, Bandelt H-J., Passarino G, McElreavey K, Santachiara-Benerecetti AS. 1999. Genetic evidence of an early exit of Homo sapiens sapiens from Africa through eastern Africa. Nat Genet 23: 437441. 6. Olivieri A, Achilli A, Pala M, Battaglia V, Fornarino S. et al. 2006. The mtDNA legacy of the Levantine early Upper Palaeolithic in Africa. Science 314:17671770. 7. Rosenberg NA, Mahajan S, Gonzalez-Quevedo C, Blum MGB, Nino- Rosales L. et al. 2007. Low Levels of Genetic Divergence across Geographically and Linguistically Diverse Populations from India. PLoS Genet 2:e215. Gyaneshwer Chaubey* Mait Metspalu Richard Villems Department of Evolutionary Biology Institute of Molecular and Cell Biology University of Tartu and Estonian Biocentre Tartu, Estonia Toomas Kivisild Leverhulme Centre of Human Evolutionary Studies The Henry Wellcome Building University of Cambridge Fitzwilliam Street Cambridge. UK CB21QH DOI 10.1002/bies.20574 Published online in Wiley InterScience (www.interscience.wiley.com). BioEssays 29:499, 2007 Wiley Periodicals, Inc. BioEssays 29.5 499 *Correspondence to: Gyaneshwer Chaubey, Department of Evolutionary Biology, Institute of Molecular and Cell Biology, University of Tartu and Estonian Biocentre, Tartu, Estonia. E-mail: gyanc@ebc.ee Correspondence
^ Any answers to the above, Dr. Winters??
Posts: 26339 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Poor foolish Clyde accuses me of being an "anti-African racist" when I merely point out the flaws in his bogus psuedo-scholarly work! He even goes so far as to distort legitimate scholarly studies and quoting them out of context, something that anti-black racists trolls like Evil-Euro did!!
quote:Originally posted by rasol: What you quoted is not only outdated, [ignorance of Herto Man dated at at least 150 ky], but it contradicts you.
Prominent chin and vertical forehead are precisely the traits that led early anthropologist to claim that Cro-Magnon was 'caucasoid', because those are traits that modern Europeans have.
The position of the article you quoted is precisely that Cro-Magnon are forebearers of modern Europeans. It is not that CroMagnon are "negro".
However in reality many Cromagnon do not have those traits. Many have recessive chin, and sloping forehead and round face and are prognathous.
In other words...you would have done better to quote something that actually does not so badly contradict your contentions.
By quoting the above, you only showed us that you don't understand what anthropologists are saying.
quote:Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl: The fact of the matter is that unrefereed comments do not count as "publications in a refereed journal". You can call them what you like. I hope that future comments will not be as confused as the reply to your comment shows.
"Reply to Winters Dear Sir, The origins of Dravidian speaking populations of South Asia have been a matter of scientific debate over many decades. In our recent review on the genetic affinities of Indian tribal and caste populations,(1) we concluded that both Indo- European- and Dravidian-speaking populations of India share largely the same pool of mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) lineages that has evolved in situ in South Asia since the Out-of-Africa migration of anatomically modern humans (AMH) some 5070 KYA. Dr. Clyde Winters in his correspondence(2) to our paper disagrees with this view and argues instead that there are linguistic, archaeological as well as genetic evidences for a relatively recent African origin of Dravidian populations. For a recent discussion on the origin of Dravidian languages, the reader is referred to a monograph by B. Krishnamurti.(3) MtDNA-based genetic arguments provided by Dr. Winters in favor of gene flow from Africa to Dravidian-speaking Indians are, however, entirely erroneous. The author has been, unfortunately, confused by overlooking changes in mtDNA haplogroup (hg) nomenclature. Namely hg, M1 in Kivisild et al.(4) has been later changed to hg M3, in order to avoid parallel nomenclatures.(5) Furthermore, a recent dedicated paper on phylogeography of mtDNA hg M1(6) as well as an extensive comparative mapping of autosomal genetic markers among many Indian populations relative to global populations elsewhere, including Africans,(7) do not provide any clues for a putative recent gene flow, from Africa, to Dravidian-speaking populations in South Asia. References 1. Chaubey G, Metspalu M, Kivisild T, Villems, R. 2007. Peopling of South Asia: investigating the caste-tribe continuum in India. Bioessays 29:91100. 2. Winters C. 2007. BioEssays 29:497498. 3. Krishnamurti B. 2003. The Dravidian Languages 1-574: Cambridge University Press 4. Kivisild T, Kaldma K, Metspalu M, Parik J, Papiha S, Villems R. 1999. The place of the Indian mtDNA variants in the global network of maternal lineages and the peopling of the Old World. In Deka R, Papiha SS. eds Genomic Diversity Kluwer Academic/Plenum Publishers New York p 135 152. 5. Quintana-Murci L, Semino O, Bandelt H-J., Passarino G, McElreavey K, Santachiara-Benerecetti AS. 1999. Genetic evidence of an early exit of Homo sapiens sapiens from Africa through eastern Africa. Nat Genet 23: 437441. 6. Olivieri A, Achilli A, Pala M, Battaglia V, Fornarino S. et al. 2006. The mtDNA legacy of the Levantine early Upper Palaeolithic in Africa. Science 314:17671770. 7. Rosenberg NA, Mahajan S, Gonzalez-Quevedo C, Blum MGB, Nino- Rosales L. et al. 2007. Low Levels of Genetic Divergence across Geographically and Linguistically Diverse Populations from India. PLoS Genet 2:e215. Gyaneshwer Chaubey* Mait Metspalu Richard Villems Department of Evolutionary Biology Institute of Molecular and Cell Biology University of Tartu and Estonian Biocentre Tartu, Estonia Toomas Kivisild Leverhulme Centre of Human Evolutionary Studies The Henry Wellcome Building University of Cambridge Fitzwilliam Street Cambridge. UK CB21QH DOI 10.1002/bies.20574 Published online in Wiley InterScience (www.interscience.wiley.com). BioEssays 29:499, 2007 Wiley Periodicals, Inc. BioEssays 29.5 499 *Correspondence to: Gyaneshwer Chaubey, Department of Evolutionary Biology, Institute of Molecular and Cell Biology, University of Tartu and Estonian Biocentre, Tartu, Estonia. E-mail: gyanc@ebc.ee Correspondence
^ Any answers to the above, Dr. Winters??
Troll I saw this response to my paper before it was published. As a result I answered these claims in my paper.
Take the time to read my paper and you may learn how to write a scholarly study.
quote:We concluded that both Indo- European- and Dravidian-speaking populations of India share largely the same pool of mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) lineages that has evolved in situ in South Asia since the Out-of-Africa migration of anatomically modern humans (AMH) some 5070 KYA. MtDNA-based genetic arguments provided by Dr. Winters in favor of gene flow from Africa to Dravidian-speaking Indians are, however, entirely erroneous. The author has been, unfortunately, confused by overlooking changes in mtDNA haplogroup (hg) nomenclature. Namely hg, M1 in Kivisild et al.(4) has been later changed to hg M3, in order to avoid parallel nomenclatures.(5) Furthermore, a recent dedicated paper on phylogeography of mtDNA hg M1(6) as well as an extensive comparative mapping of autosomal genetic markers among many Indian populations relative to global populations elsewhere, including Africans,(7) do not provide any clues for a putative recent gene flow, from Africa, to Dravidian-speaking populations in South Asia.
^ Which we tried to explain to Dr. Winters over and over and over and over and..... Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Clyde winters: Troll I saw this response to my paper before it was published. As a result I answered these claims in my paper.
Take the time to read my paper and you may learn how to write a scholarly study .
You seem to be very proud having obtained the Phd title. But i'm still interested on how come you never see a Jewish, Chinese, or even Iraki Phd holder go around braging and calling people around as "losers" like you do frequently when they don't agree? I think you published works on respected journals, i actually find you very unusual but still fascinating?
I personally don't know if i had reacted as you do to the overall environment if i possesed the same Scholarly title as you seem to have and publications. I wonder if you consider yourself as a mature individual? I actually think i might be more serious and less braging and centric than you are (maybe not unique). My main objective would maybe be to find rich information about the world and sphere i work in based on personal principles such as (Honesty and reality)and less to do with wishes or trying boosting my ego. Maybe try as much as possible to disconnect myself from ingrained beliefs and mainstream opinion of how things really are suppose to be. I think I would try to accept and learn of the objective natural rules and laws just so to come more closer the truth of universe or atleast the subject i'm studying. But unfortunatly i beleive you obtained your title out of selfish, status reasons, rather than genuine or scholarly objectives.
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^ Indeed, I find it hard to believe anyone with a PhD could get away with publishing such nonsense as "negroid" indigenous Europeans, Mandingo Dravidians, Chinese, Japanese, and Olmecs, and when confronted calls their opponents anti-African "racists" all of a sudden!! And then he quotes legitimate works out of context-- distorts them! Such is the work of a pseudo-scholar with a biased agenda, NOT a true, honest scholar.
I have seen a thread way back where linguists would post, and all of them oppose Dr. Winters yet non of them call him names or accuse him of being a "troll". Instead, they all laugh and speak shamefully as they point out the obvious flaws in his studies. It's sad, but I don't think they or any of his peers take him seriously and for good reason. Posts: 26339 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Yonis: You seem to be very proud having obtained the Phd title. But i'm still interested on how come you never see a Jewish, Chinese, or even Iraki Phd holder go around braging and calling people around as "losers" like you do frequently when they don't agree?
Are you attacking Dr. Winters ethnicity?
Are you claiming that Jewish or Iraki Phd holders are somehow superior to African American phd holders?
I remind you of our ex. resident white American "Professor" Horemheb, probably not a college grad in fact, but nonetheless did nothing but troll the forum while stricking pretentious airs of academia, meant to cover up his sheer intellectual ineptitude.
I don't agree with Winters, but I don't agree with the manner in which you attacked him just now either.
If his ideas are unsound, you should dispute them, not attack 'him'.
Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Clyde winters: Troll I saw this response to my paper before it was published. As a result I answered these claims in my paper.
Take the time to read my paper and you may learn how to write a scholarly study .
You seem to be very proud having obtained the Phd title. But i'm still interested on how come you never see a Jewish, Chinese, or even Iraki Phd holder go around braging and calling people around as "losers" like you do frequently when they don't agree? I think you published works on respected journals, i actually find you very unusual but still fascinating?
I personally don't know if i had reacted as you do to the overall environment if i possesed the same Scholarly title as you seem to have and publications. I wonder if you consider yourself as a mature individual? I actually think i might be more serious and less braging and centric than you are (maybe not unique). My main objective would maybe be to find rich information about the world and sphere i work in based on personal principles such as (Honesty and reality)and less to do with wishes or trying boosting my ego. Maybe try as much as possible to disconnect myself from ingrained beliefs and mainstream opinion of how things really are suppose to be. I think I would try to accept and learn of the objective natural rules and laws just so to come more closer the truth of universe or atleast the subject i'm studying. But unfortunatly i beleive you obtained your title out of selfish, status reasons, rather than genuine or scholarly objectives.
It was the troll Djehuti who brought up the issue. It appears he does this because he is jealous. Since he brought it up I acknowledged my accomplishment.
I obtained by titled because I was interested in furthering research in attribution theory and Brain/Neurobiological Based learning. This research objective I am doing.
My Afrocentric research was began long before I earned the PhD. I am invested in the field of study so I continue my research efforts in this direction.
Djehuti is a very disrespectful racist and neo-Eurocentrist. If he approached me in a respectful manner I would do likewise. If the anti-Black/Negro Djehuti avoided bringing up my PhD I would have nothing to say on the matter.
Djehuti has a mental problem. He can't understand that most Europeans respect people who love themselves and their history. As a result, he can not understand how I could make the accomplsihments I have made and remain a man.
Moreover, Djehuti has debated me on other forums where he acts in a civil manner and lost. Here he can act like an ignorant thug, so he presents himself as a bully.
I don't like bullies. If my comments can further his feelings of 'learned helplessness' in relation to higher education I will continue the same. Djehuti is a troll in his behavior towards Marc and myself--if he wants to be disrespectful to me and mean I will approach like the racist fool he is. If he tried harder he could earn a degree. His behavior suggest that he just can't undertstand how a Black man can earn numerous degrees while he can't even earn one. The answer is simple: Hard Work Djehuti.
Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Djehuti is a very disrespectful racist and neo-Eurocentrist. If he approached me in a respectful manner I would do likewise. If the anti-Black/Negro Djehuti avoided bringing up my PhD I would have nothing to say on the matter.
I think the mood in general on Egyptsearch is a bit too flame friendly, but your disapproval at Djehuti's behavior towards you does not warrant making things up, Dr. Winters.
What evidence do you have that Djehuti is a racist? I've never seen him make a racist comment to anyone.
What is a Neo-Eurocentrist and how is Djehuti one?
He has always contended that Ancient Egypt was a Black African civilization. He holds a firm belief that indegenious cultures of any region be viewed within proper context.
On Youtube, Salsassin accused Djehuti of professing Pan-Blackness. I think it is just silly and dishonest to make unfounded claims because you don't like someone's attitude.
If you feel he is rude call him rude. If you think he is unappreciative of your work and disrespects your credentials so be it, but making unfounded claims makes you look very unprofessional and petty.
Unless you intend to back up these assertions.
Posts: 1203 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote: I think the mood in general on Egyptsearch is a bit too flame friendly, but your disapproval at Djehuti's behavior towards you does not warrant making things up, Dr. Winters.
What evidence do you have that Djehuti is a racist? I've never seen him make a racist comment to anyone.
What is a Neo-Eurocentrist and how is Djehuti one?
He has always contended that Ancient Egypt was a Black African civilization. He holds a firm belief that indegenious cultures of any region be viewed within proper context.
If you read the work of W.E.B. DuBois concerning the self-hating Blacks of the 1920's-1940's, liberal whites and Marxist who attacked Africalogy , they also shared a common goal: encourage Blacks to be concerned with only the Sub-Saharan history of Blacks, especially the West African Kingdoms. Although this was their goal respected Afro-American academians like Carter G. Woodson and DuBois, always made Egypt a part of the history of Afro-Americans. DuBois in The World and Africa, made sure to discuss the heritage of Blacks in rise of civilizations around the world in ancient times.
Neo-Eurocentrist are researchers of various ethnic and racial back grounds who buy into the idea that Blacks founded or play a significant role in Egypt. The new Eurocentrists also make it clear that whereas Egypt may have been created by Sub-Saharan Africans, the other civilizations "may" have ethnically Black characters who are "tropically adapted modern hominids" that created and constructed civilizations, these Blacks were not Africans.
Many Blacks today, like their "uncle tom and coconut" predecessors of the 1920's-1940's, prefer to be Neo-Eurocentrists because these views are supported by some mainstream whites and they will not be entirely rejected by members of the status quo. African/Afro-Americans/Black researchers like being Neo-Eurocentrists because they feel that by associating themselves with "progressive white" researchers who recognize African achievements in Africa, they must be right. They associate with these whites so they won't feel an inferiority complex.
Whereas people like Brace, have no hesitation in trying to make the original Europeans and East Inidians "caucasians", the Neo-Eurcoentrists claim that you can be "Black but not African". This staement is a contridiction when you know that the Classical literature and skeletal remains make it clear that the Kushites originated in Africa and spread civilization to other parts of the world.
Djehuti shows his racism because he attacks Marc's work mainly on the basis of the fact that Marc continues to describe Africans as Blacks and Negroes. Hiding under the cloak of Egypt was Black, he is able to attack anyone who insist that Blacks founded civilizations elsewhere, just like the liberal and Marxist whites and Multiculturalists of today who encourage Blacks to restrict their research to Africa and the West African Kingdoms outside the Nile Valley.
The evidence of Black Africans founding civilizations outside Africa is not new and part of the basic science of Africalogical researchers. People who may attempt to deny this reality without providing any evidence to counter the tons of epigraphic, textual, archaeological, anthropological and craniometric data supporting this view solely on the basis of genetic research that is colored by Eurocentric views of peoples and cultures, must be summarialy rejected.
.
-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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He has always contended that Ancient Egypt was a Black African civilization. He holds a firm belief that indegenious cultures of any region be viewed within proper context.
This is a juvenile conception of history. This veiw of history promotes the idea that the movement of peoples is stagnant.
This is a false view of history. Population movements are dynamic.
Some people who live in a place today, like the United States, are not the original inhabitants. Therefore when someone claims they are defending the indegenious cultures ,by claiming that the people who live in specific areas today are the original inhabitants of the places where they presently live, when the diverse evidences proves otherwise are just perpetuating lies.
The best example of this mythology is ancient Egypt. Although the art and etc., show the Egyptians were blacks, many people deny what they can see,and claim these people were Arabs.
posted
^ It is only because I dismiss the type of nonsense that he has just posted above, that he calls me a "Neo-Eurocentric racist"! LOL
There is nothing "Eurocentric" about refuting false African contribution the same way it not "Afrocentrict" to refute the like with Europeans. The time of the caucazoid spreading high culture around the globe is over, now what we are seeing are black scholars like Clyde doing the exact same thing only with "negroid" Africans! Posts: 26339 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: This is a juvenile conception of history. This veiw of history promotes the idea that the movement of peoples is stagnant.
This is a false view of history. Population movements are dynamic.
Of course! I never said populations were not dynamic!! However, it is one thing to say that the original Europeans were black Africans and that whites didn't show up until the Middle Ages, or that blacks were indigenous to China, Japan, and Meso-America only to be displaced!!
Posts: 26339 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:This veiw of history promotes the idea that the movement of peoples is stagnant
Actually, it could be argued that your theory of history is based on the notion that humans can be divided into sub-species [races] and that these races are stagnant.
To quote after you: "This is a false view of history."
Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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Yeah!! Think of Chris Columbus. Wooops bad eg Clyde. But you get the idea. I hard my doubts myself when it all this black black black africa africa africa started everything. Still have doubts but starting to ask some serious questions.
If the origanl man was black african then did he migrate throughout the rest of the world as black africans. If that's the case then these are probably some of the African evidence others are finding. The issue is how did these africans take to evolve/adapt to the environment. This is really the dispute with DG and Clyde. Or the man slowly adapted/evolved as he spread outwards from africa? And there NO replacement.
Also looking at the bantu sickle cell blood found in Greece. How did that get there unless the Bantus were present during the Nilotic(sp?) period.
quote:Originally posted by Arwa: Clyde, something to cheer you up:
quote:"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer - German philosopher (1788 - 1860) Cheers !
xxx
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
I don't know where everyone is getting these ideas of Djehuti being racist from.
Perhaps it is his self-claimed Filipino status.?
White trolls say he is hiding behind it as a strategy to avoid suspiscion of being a black afrocentrist. Or that there's a thing for Filipinos holding ancient Egypt as black.
"Have no clue about AKO. Only "Asian" there is Afrocentric Djehuti. He believes in a Pan Blackness thing." - Salsassin
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I'm just participating in the conversation. This matter is not nearly important enough to me that I worry about a link serving as advertisement.
Posts: 1203 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Also looking at the bantu sickle cell blood found in Greece. How did that get there unless the Bantus were present during the Nilotic(sp?) period.
quote:Originally posted by Arwa: Clyde, something to cheer you up:
quote:"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer - German philosopher (1788 - 1860) Cheers !
It was not necessary for a Bantu to go to Greece to get sickle cell there, any person visiting Africa could have been infected by the Benin sickle cell haplotype and carried it back to Greece.
Posts: 833 | From: Austin, TX | Registered: Jan 2007
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This is a homogeneous haplotype that originated in West Africa, as opposed to Central Africa, Arabia and or India, exactly as shown...
quote:Sickle cell mutation has arisen several times
Yes, and the Greeks have the mutation that arose in West Africa, exactly as shown...
Eurocentric/Medicentrists are practiced in dissembling in attempt to cover up this fact, since it is and -embarrassment- to their ethnocentric and racist ideology.
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^It goes all the way to "southwest Asia", where the eastern regions are more exposed to the Asian/Arabian haplotype.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Sep 2005
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"Have no clue about AKO. Only "Asian" there is Afrocentric Djehuti. He believes in a Pan Blackness thing." - Salsassin
^ Yeah, but where was I?! I never posted anything on youtube! As for me believing in "Pan-blackness"! LMAO I thought the idiot knows that I am totally against the false history that Clyde Winters propagates, unless he calls my acknowlegement of Egypt as black African "pan-African"
By the way, I noticed that in loco-Ako's racist nonsense video, he claims to argue against Shaun002 (another former poster to this forum) who made the claim that the Egyptians were black "caucasoids"!! And I thought we educated the guy!
quote:Originally posted by WhatBox: I don't know where everyone is getting these ideas of Djehuti being racist from.
Perhaps it is his self-claimed Filipino status.?
White trolls say he is hiding behind it as a strategy to avoid suspiscion of being a black afrocentrist. Or that there's a thing for Filipinos holding ancient Egypt as black.
Black trolls say he is racist.
Or Eurocentric.
?
The Eurocentrics and Medicentrics find it hard to believe that I, an Asian regardless of ethnicity acknowledge Egypt's black African identity, while at the same time some Afrocentrics like Clyde accuse me of being racist and Eurocentric for calling out their ridiculous pan-African diffusionist theories!! I can't win can I? LOLPosts: 26339 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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There were most definitely BLACKS in all parts of the planet even by the time of European explorers. Read any book and look at any of the artwork made by early European explorers and photographers in the Americas, Pacific and elsewhere and you will see large numbers of dark complexioned people. In many places they no longer exist as they once did. Hawaii was orignally populated by all black people and this is confirmed by the accounts and images of such early expeditions. Where are they at now? The "indigenous" people of Hawaii are so mixed it is harder for them to explain their ancestry than Tiger Woods. There are pockets of such natives that remain, like in Fiji and other pacific islands, but they still are in a delicate balance with East Indian peoples brought in by the British during colonial times.
However, calling all these people Africans is to go a bit too far. Some of them may have looked like Africans, probably as a result of retaining the features that they had when they left Africa,but that does not mean they were "Africans" in any sense. We have to be careful how we use that term as it applies to the ancient aboriginal people around the world.
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^ But that still does not excuse Winters' lies of black Africans indigenous to Europe and whites entering Europe until the Middle Ages, or black African Chinese and Japanese and Olmecs!
By the way, folks have veered off topic long time ago! It was answered at the beginning of this thread why Greeks were depicted nude!
Posts: 26339 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ But that still does not excuse Winters' lies of black Africans indigenous to Europe and whites entering Europe until the Middle Ages, or black African Chinese and Japanese and Olmecs!
By the way, folks have veered off topic long time ago! It was answered at the beginning of this thread why Greeks were depicted nude!
You're right for once.
quote:Originally posted by Marc Washington: The Greeks were nude because they didn't have any clothes. At the beginning, clothes were available only if one was wealthy enough to avoid the endless demands of farming and hunting. It was a tedious, immeasurably slow process and one induldged in by queens and other female royalty who only occasionally (at the beginning) had the assistance of others. The Greeks came from the Russian Steppes and after arriving in the Grecian islands and destroying nearly every thing they could lay their hands on did enslave the remaining indigenous people and thereafter require that they make them clothes, babies, etc.
The Iliad and the Odyessy has ample evidence of the indigenous people being enslaved and forced to use their crafts and skills to please the insatiable needs of the nomads who forced themselves on their civilization. Here is something to think about:
If you click on the link, at the bottom of the page are about five other links showing the common elements in what appears to be a common kultural toolkit that began in some specific area and became dispersed worldwide. This would include (in some "packages" - for instance, consider weaving in Mexico in B7c) textile making.
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^ LOL Your childish rebuttal via confused Marc's post is not what I am talking about.
The Greeks had clothing (of course) but nudity was preferred in art, specifically male nudity. Marc's notion is ridiculous-- that Greeks didn't have any clothing at all. It makes even less sense if as he says the white Greeks originated from colder climates where clothes are a must.
If I didn't know any better, I'd say you Clyde and Marc are again inverting Eurocentric racist notions into a black form-- in this case nudity being associated with primitivism. LOL That the white Greeks were primitive naked people while the black Africans were civilized clothed ones.
Tit-for-tat black racism at it's finest. Posts: 26339 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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^When indeed did clothing purportedly come about in Europe? Not sure about the Neanderthals, but as far as modern human settlers of the region are concerned, I suspect settler immigrant communities like the Minoans [non-Indo-European speakers], and possibly the Etruscans? (suspected to be non-Indo-European speakers as well], were likely amongst the earliest therein to have worn woven clothing.
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UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
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Indeed, I find it hard to believe anyone with a PhD could get away with publishing such nonsense as "negroid" indigenous Europeans, Mandingo Dravidians, Chinese, Japanese, and Olmecs, and when confronted calls their opponents anti-African "racists" all of a sudden!! And then he quotes legitimate works out of context-- distorts them! Such is the work of a pseudo-scholar with a biased agenda, NOT a true, honest scholar.
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LOL
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