posted
Most people consider the ancient inhabitants of the land now called "Greece" to have been "white", but I have heard a handful of claims that many of them were mixed with African and Asiatic people. Do these assertions have any evidence to support them, or are they simply misinformation? I would presume that most were indigenous Europeans (albeit with darker hair, eyes, and skin than northern Europeans), but I am open to the possible of significant non-European ancestry.
Posts: 7082 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
One fun-fact and ironically funny-fact is that:
Although, most people assume that Kemetians (ancient Egyptians) seperated themselves racially from inner africans, they nor anyone else did. On the contrary it was the Greeks who did not view themselves with western europeans!
So they say something like: "Egyptians viewed themselves only as Egyptian" - which is an unfounded claim, as well as a dumn one; Americans may view themselves as american, but they still know what 'ethnicity' they associate themselves with.
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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quote:Originally posted by What Box (Willing Thinker): One fun-fact and ironically funny-fact is that:
Although, most people assume that Kemetians (ancient Egyptians) seperated themselves racially from inner africans, they nor anyone else did. On the contrary it was the Greeks who did not view themselves with western europeans!
So they say something like: "Egyptians viewed themselves only as Egyptian" - which is an unfounded claim, as well as a dumn one; Americans may view themselves as american, but they still know what 'ethnicity' they associate themselves with.
Excellent point. This is what I was going to post. Egyptians were black but recognized themselves as a different ethnicity to their southern neighbors. No different than the differences between ethnic divisions in places like Rwanda, or present day Sudan where "black Arabs" are slaughtering other blacks.
European history is rife with ethnic divisions. This is one reason cited for European dominance - they recognized differences, never had one centralized government for the continent, and had ongoing wars which led to technological innovation. Why is it that people don't see the parallel in Egypt is largely due to eurocentrism.
Posts: 477 | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
Romans is a ficticious word for Germanics. They had nothing to do with the ROman empire other than to destroy its western side and attampt to damage its eastern side.
Posts: 104 | Registered: Jan 2007
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Which parts of Europe were "civilized" prior to the so-called "Middle Age" re-birth from the technologically superior "Arab" world [I say Arab, in the sense that most were not "Arabs" ethnically or necessarily muslims, but utilized Arabic as the lingua franca of time], aside from Greece and Rome? Did what the "Arab" world bring to Europe, merely resemble whatever had been lost in Europe prior to being "lost"? If not, then why resort to the term "brought back the civilization"? If yes, can you demonstrate how this "civilization" remained the same over the years, i.e. remained static with no new element, and that this essentially means the "Arab" world simply adopted "European civilization" and none of their own.
Posts: 5964 | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
Rephrase your post...it's confusing, maybe I'm a little bit slow...clear sentences please...let me give you an example: quote me and then ask a question...one quote at a time...one question at a time...no interpretation...let's be efficient...
Posts: 711 | From: Africa | Registered: Oct 2006
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Rephrase your post...it's confusing, maybe I'm a little bit slow...clear sentences please...let me give you an example: quote me and then ask a question...one quote at a time...one question at a time...no interpretation...let's be efficient...
LOL. Okay; you said:
quote:Originally posted by Africa:
Anyway they civilized Europe, that's where the concept of the "West" originated from...the Europeans spoiled it and the Arabs brought the civilization back to Europe...Europeans were barbarians originally:...
To which I asked:
[*]Which parts of Europe were "civilized" prior to the so-called "Middle Age" re-birth from the technologically superior "Arab" world [I say Arab, in the sense that most were not "Arabs" ethnically or necessarily muslims, but utilized Arabic as the lingua franca of time], aside from Greece and Rome?
[*]Did what the "Arab" world bring to Europe, merely resemble whatever had been lost in Europe prior to being "lost"?
If not, then why resort to the term "brought back the civilization"?
If yes, can you demonstrate how this "civilization" remained the same over the years, i.e. remained static with no new element, and that this essentially means the "Arab" world simply adopted "European civilization" and none of their own.
quote:Originally posted by Achillobator: Most people consider the ancient inhabitants of the land now called "Greece" to have been "white", but I have heard a handful of claims that many of them were mixed with African and Asiatic people. Do these assertions have any evidence to support them, or are they simply misinformation? I would presume that most were indigenous Europeans (albeit with darker hair, eyes, and skin than northern Europeans), but I am open to the possible of significant non-European ancestry.
The Ancient Greeks were not mixed in the sense that I think you mean which is through colonization.
Posts: 1219 | From: North Carolina, USA | Registered: Jul 2004
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There is no continental European advanced civilization...everything is Mediterranean...that's what I learned in French schools...
And they seem to have done a number on your psychic. "Mediterranean" is a term used to avoid placing "origins", whether cultural or biological, in the continents of origin. So, instead of saying something started in Egypt, Africa, it said to be of "Mediterranean origin". Hence, "Africa" is altogether avoided. It can be said, the origins of "Western Civ." lay in the "Mediterranean", without having to specifically direct it to "African" and "Southwest Asian" provenances. "Mediterranean" is a name of the waterbody that lies in between two continents, it is in no way reference to a continuous land mass [continent], but cunningly used for reasons already stated.
quote: I think on that note I probably understand the French (the light of Europe) psyche more than you....
Based on what parameters?
quote: If their philosophers are so admired, why a simple African can see the absurdity behind their culture? This a question for Supercar...why their(the French) culture and civilization should start when they were colonized by strangers?
I'm not sure what this has to do with what I'm asking from you. Please elaborate.
Posts: 5964 | Registered: Jan 2005
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quote: If their philosophers are so admired, why a simple African can see the absurdity behind their culture? This a question for Supercar...why their(the French) culture and civilization should start when they were colonized by strangers? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure what this has to do with what I'm asking from you. Please elaborate
If their philosophers are so admired, why a simple African can see the absurdity behind their culture? This a question for Supercar...why their(the French) culture and civilization should start when they were colonized by strangers?
I'm not sure what this has to do with what I'm asking from you. Please elaborate
When Gauls were colonized by Romans...by the way the average French folk think about the Mediterean culure as the Greek and Roman culture...just ask me since you never lived with them apparently....
Why should I ask you about anything, when you have NOT answered any of the questions that I've already asked you? You go onto talk about matters that are not the point of our exchange.
Posts: 5964 | Registered: Jan 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Achillobator: Most people consider the ancient inhabitants of the land now called "Greece" to have been "white", but I have heard a handful of claims that many of them were mixed with African and Asiatic people. Do these assertions have any evidence to support them, or are they simply misinformation? I would presume that most were indigenous Europeans (albeit with darker hair, eyes, and skin than northern Europeans), but I am open to the possible of significant non-European ancestry.
The Ancient Greeks were not mixed in the sense that I think you mean which is through colonization.
Evergreen Writes:
Actually the Greeks were "mixed" in every sense of the word. Not only did Greeks derive from late Pliestocene Blacks, but Blacks migrated to historic Greece as well.
Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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Rephrase your post...it's confusing, maybe I'm a little bit slow...clear sentences please...let me give you an example: quote me and then ask a question...one quote at a time...one question at a time...no interpretation...let's be efficient...
LOL. Okay; you said:
quote:Originally posted by Africa:
Anyway they civilized Europe, that's where the concept of the "West" originated from...the Europeans spoiled it and the Arabs brought the civilization back to Europe...Europeans were barbarians originally:...
To which I asked:
[*]Which parts of Europe were "civilized" prior to the so-called "Middle Age" re-birth from the technologically superior "Arab" world [I say Arab, in the sense that most were not "Arabs" ethnically or necessarily muslims, but utilized Arabic as the lingua franca of time], aside from Greece and Rome?
[*]Did what the "Arab" world bring to Europe, merely resemble whatever had been lost in Europe prior to being "lost"?
If not, then why resort to the term "brought back the civilization"?
If yes, can you demonstrate how this "civilization" remained the same over the years, i.e. remained static with no new element, and that this essentially means the "Arab" world simply adopted "European civilization" and none of their own.
Supercar and others
When africa typed "arabs brought back the civilization", I think he ment they brought back civilization in general.
If you are going to talk about the whole continent of Europe, you need not be so broad and ambiguous. Doing so leaves things open to interpretation and even manipulation. Now I understand why Supercar was getting so heated with Dougs rather redundant generalized posts about africa.
I vote for NO generalizations too! We could atleast try and marginalize them. Speak in detail when we post about whole geographic areas or anything else, for THAT matter. Give examples. That sort of thing.
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Achillobator: Most people consider the ancient inhabitants of the land now called "Greece" to have been "white", but I have heard a handful of claims that many of them were mixed with African and Asiatic people. Do these assertions have any evidence to support them, or are they simply misinformation? I would presume that most were indigenous Europeans (albeit with darker hair, eyes, and skin than northern Europeans), but I am open to the possible of significant non-European ancestry.
The Ancient Greeks were not mixed in the sense that I think you mean which is through colonization.
Evergreen Writes:
Actually the Greeks were "mixed" in every sense of the word. Not only did Greeks derive from late Pliestocene Blacks, but Blacks migrated to historic Greece as well.
What evidence do you have of a Black (Libyan or Egyptian) colonization or migration to Ancient Greece?
Posts: 1219 | From: North Carolina, USA | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Well now we have mixed up issue of race, ethnicity, nationality and culture.
Racial: Hellenes are unique but varied. From almost Indic appearance in Northern India through to Almost completly black in Ethiopia.
Ethnicity: I would say Cycladic to avoid nationalism because Egypt as a name did not exist and when it did it was Hellenic anyway.
Nationality: Multiple city states. Main ones being Ionian, Macedonian, Spartan, Athenian.
Culture: Mediteranean predominantly with some features of Nordic, African, Asian and Indian influences.
Posts: 104 | Registered: Jan 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Achillobator: Most people consider the ancient inhabitants of the land now called "Greece" to have been "white", but I have heard a handful of claims that many of them were mixed with African and Asiatic people. Do these assertions have any evidence to support them, or are they simply misinformation? I would presume that most were indigenous Europeans (albeit with darker hair, eyes, and skin than northern Europeans), but I am open to the possible of significant non-European ancestry.
They were all of that.
Posts: 2088 | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
It was stated that "by the way the average French folk think about the Mediterean culure as the Greek and Roman culture.." but we are confusing nation/state status with ethnic affiliation but this is a misnomer. Modern Greece is different from the individual Spartan, Thracian, Theban states, etc and England comprising of various people like the Picts, Normans (Northern France settlers who were actually transplanted Vikings who in turn invaded in 1066), Vandals, etc. We should be able to see how the same people occupying different location (contiguous or not) can have different external cultural references! Were the Normans Vikings, French or English? Yes. They can be depending on the time period or century they occupied the specific nation!
Posts: 1290 | From: usa | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by King_Scorpion: [QUOTE]What evidence do you have of a Black (Libyan or Egyptian) colonization or migration to Ancient Greece?
Evergreen Writes:
We have covered this many times on this forum. I suggest you search the history of this forum. Another good resource is the work of Frank Snowden.
Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
So-called Ancient Greeks were Black people or if you prefer Negros or Negroid or Africanoid or whatever wonderful social/technical Caucasian word is available for describing the Black Phenotype today. Non-existent ancient White Greeks are a result of racial grafting through art and science which are of pure fabrication and in many cases very poor fabrication at that. I mean, if man could physically live pass one thousand years then Western specialists would have been perfectly successful in their quest for destroying of other people’s history;
Champollion Figeac anyone?
Fortunately, man can't live pass a thousand years and if victims of historical plagiarism and infiltrations and criminal alterations can focus enough of their energies in the right places they can certainly reverse the tide. Assuming that intellectual precision is rendered correctly, comprehensively with inexorable persistence, a victimized people can take back their histories with little or no physical violence what so ever.
-------------------- The one who built them! Posts: 179 | From: United States | Registered: Jan 2007
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posted
LOL. So all those ancient Greek busts from the past, are mere fabrications of presumably 'white' folks? What happened to the "black"/"negroid" Greeks?
-------------------- Truth - a liar penetrating device! Posts: 5964 | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
I did a little more reading on the peopling of Greece, and I found one source that said that Greeks were descended from migrants moving westward from Turkey. Turkish people are not considered white. Does this make Greeks non-white?
quote:Originally posted by Achillobator: I did a little more reading on the peopling of Greece, and I found one source that said that Greeks were descended from migrants moving westward from Turkey. Turkish people are not considered white. Does this make Greeks non-white?
You have to reread what Supercar wrote:
quote:Greek paternal lineage frequency data: Hg E3b -> 22.4%, Hg I ->7.9%, Hg J -> 21%, Hg R1b -> 27%, Hg R1a -> 11% - Semino et al., 2002.
Posts: 951 | From: where rules end and freedom begins | Registered: Jun 2004
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Rephrase your post...it's confusing, maybe I'm a little bit slow...clear sentences please...let me give you an example: quote me and then ask a question...one quote at a time...one question at a time...no interpretation...let's be efficient...
LOL. Okay; you said:
quote:Originally posted by Africa:
Anyway they civilized Europe, that's where the concept of the "West" originated from...the Europeans spoiled it and the Arabs brought the civilization back to Europe...Europeans were barbarians originally:...
To which I asked:
[*]Which parts of Europe were "civilized" prior to the so-called "Middle Age" re-birth from the technologically superior "Arab" world [I say Arab, in the sense that most were not "Arabs" ethnically or necessarily muslims, but utilized Arabic as the lingua franca of time], aside from Greece and Rome?
[*]Did what the "Arab" world bring to Europe, merely resemble whatever had been lost in Europe prior to being "lost"?
If not, then why resort to the term "brought back the civilization"?
If yes, can you demonstrate how this "civilization" remained the same over the years, i.e. remained static with no new element, and that this essentially means the "Arab" world simply adopted "European civilization" and none of their own.
Supercar and others
When africa typed "arabs brought back the civilization", I think he ment they brought back civilization in general.
If you are going to talk about the whole continent of Europe, you need not be so broad and ambiguous. Doing so leaves things open to interpretation and even manipulation. Now I understand why Supercar was getting so heated with Dougs rather redundant generalized posts about africa.
I vote for NO generalizations too! We could atleast try and marginalize them. Speak in detail when we post about whole geographic areas or anything else, for THAT matter. Give examples. That sort of thing.
Dont bring me into this. There are some things that can be said that are statements of general fact. Europe vis-a-vis Africa for the last few hundred years has been one GENERALLY of European colonial conquest and expansion to the detriment of black African people. This is true in ALL parts of Africa, no exception. Sure, there are specific dates of slaugther and oppression, specific kings who were exiled or killed, specific people who were conquered and specific kingdoms destroyed all at specific times and in specific places, but that does not change the overall facts one bit.
None of which has anything to do with this.
The kingdoms of Early Mediteranean Greece, from the artwork both from Minoan sites and in Egypt, seem to show a population much darker and more mixed than that of the Hellenistic period. Senmut's tomb and other tombs show people who are quite brown coming from Minoan cities. All of this was brought to an end by the explosion of Thera and the destruction of Minoan civilization. Hellenistic Greece was populated mainly by migrants from Turkey as well as the Egyptians who initially are said to have founded settlements in various places on the Greek mainland sometime after the destruction of Minoan civilization. These settlements eventually became some of the great city states of the ancient Greece. Early Hellenistic Greece received much in the way of culture and the arts from Egypt and went on to surpass them in many aspects. The Hellenistic Greeks did not even know about the Minoans, except for finding out about them from the Egyptians. An example of this influence can be seen in the doric columns of the early Greek temples, which was a part of Egyptian architecture since the old kingdom. Egyptian birth houses, which were shrines to Isis, also had a similar lay out, with a square or rectangular shrine surrounded on all sides by doric columns. Hatshepsut's morturary temple is another example, along with the tombs at Beni Hassan and the now suberged temples built at Buhen. Early Greek sculpture from this period also shows this influence, as they adopted similar styles of expression and form as that of the Egyptians.
Posts: 8896 | Registered: May 2005
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posted
They weren't White, they weren't Black, They weren't African, they weren't Nordic. But they had cntact with the later two.
Posts: 354 | From: Atlanta, GA | Registered: Jan 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Mustafino: They weren't White, they weren't Black, They weren't African, they weren't Nordic. But they had cntact with the later two.
Evergreen Writes:
Were they 'Western' or 'European' or 'Greek'?
Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
Depends on which period you are talking about. They were the ones who came up with the myth of Europa. Don't know if they considered Nordics Europeans though. And I don't think they really thought so much in terms of East or West. Even the concept of Greek was not their original perception of themselves.
Posts: 354 | From: Atlanta, GA | Registered: Jan 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Evergreen: Were they 'Western' or 'European' or 'Greek'?
quote:Originally posted by Mustafino: Depends on which period you are talking about.
Evergreen Writes:
During which period did they consider themselves 'Western', 'European' or 'Greek'?
Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
It seems around 500BC, Europa first designated mainland Greece and then became a reference for Greece and all lands north. It seems Graecoi was used to refer to them by many by the 8th century BC. Aristotle is the first person on record to use it.
Posts: 354 | From: Atlanta, GA | Registered: Jan 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Evergreen: Were they 'Western' or 'European' or 'Greek'?
quote:Originally posted by Mustafino: Depends on which period you are talking about.
quote:Originally posted by Evergreen: During which period did they consider themselves 'Western', 'European' or 'Greek'?
quote:Originally posted by Mustafino: It seems around 500BC, Europa first designated mainland Greece and then became a reference for Greece and all lands north. It seems Graecoi was used to refer to them by many by the 8th century BC. Aristotle is the first person on record to use it.
Evergreen Writes:
Are you suggesting that the word Europa in 500BC had the same meaning as the modern word Europe/European?
P.S.
What part did Charlemagne play in the naming of Europe?
Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
Achill, Supercar already answered your parent question.-- Greeks did have indigenous European ancestry, but they also shared ancestry from the 'Near-East' primarily Asia Minor (modern Turkey) and African lineages as well.
quote:Originally posted by Achillobator: I did a little more reading on the peopling of Greece, and I found one source that said that Greeks were descended from migrants moving westward from Turkey. Turkish people are not considered white. Does this make Greeks non-white?
That depends. The people of Turkey are diverse themselves ranging from manyw who look "Middle-Eastern" specifically Syrian, and others who look Nordic with blonde hair and blue eyes although the latter types are rare.
Just to give you a brief history on the peopling of Greece: The earliest known inhabitants of the Greek peninsula were hunter-gatherer types of paleo-European descent. Soon agriculture was introduced via migrations from the Near-East-- (Anatolia, Levant and Aegean Islands). Some of these agriculturalists carried West Asian lineages, while others carried African lineages.
As such, Greeks are not as 'white' as many fantasize they were.
Also, I know of many ancient Greek traditions that shared with peoples in the 'Near-East'.
Posts: 26280 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Turkey has been a major force in Greece's history since ancient times. The most recent being during the Ottoman period, where parts of Greece were ruled by the Ottomans for almost 400 years. This period played a great part in influencing Greek cultural, intellectual and religious traditions.
This can be seen most often in the various dance traditions from the Ottoman period that have influenced Greek folk dance tradition. This same tradition is also seen in coastal berber communities of Northern Africa, countries around the black sea like Romania and elsewhere, due to the same Ottoman influence. The Turkish women's line dance is a good example of this.
quote:Originally posted by Mustafino: They weren't White, they weren't Black, They weren't African, they weren't Nordic. But they had cntact with the later two.
Anything lower than the quote above can't taken even as seriously as a laughing matter.
Mustafino, I think you may have wanted your Euro-Racist statement to complete with something like: "they were Aliens from out of space, but they had cntact with the later two."
No matter how hard it may seem, it's still easy to say: "They were Black People!". So say it with me now, slowly: "Theeeeey werrrrrre Black People!"
Posts: 179 | From: United States | Registered: Jan 2007
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posted
^ Then your suggestion would fly right in the face of pretty much all evidence including direct sources and depictions of the ancient Greeks themselves.
LOL So much for black Greeks. Posts: 26280 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Sphinx of Greek Crater? Homosexual-like European art renderings?
I'm glad your Caucasian family left you enough fabricated garbage to post and build your confidence with. Since I can't show you the truth, I will help you solidify yourself in the land of the lost and let your family show you more lies and confusion. Here, dwell in this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F63Kp3DtbYPosts: 179 | From: United States | Registered: Jan 2007
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Lol! Africa has a taste for wild white flesh Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Kemson: Sphinx of Greek Crater?
Yes?
quote:Homosexual-like European art renderings?
Yes, European-- Greek to be exact.
quote:I'm glad your Caucasian family left you enough fabricated garbage to post and build your confidence with...
LOL The only caucasian in my family is the man my mother married. Other than that, what I posted were simple facts and have nothing to do with my "confidence". Unfortunately, I cannot say the same for you considering your 'beliefs'.
quote:Since I can't show you the truth, I will help you solidify yourself in the land of the lost and let your family show you more lies and confusion.
No need to show me the truth, because I already know it, but if you mean your personal fantasy that you believe to be "truth" then of course you cannot show it. And again, I don't have a "caucasian" family.LOL
Okay. And? Your little program explains about historical frauds. I don't know what that has to do with any of the historically accurate artwork left behind by the Greeks themselves.
I do not deny that Greeks have mixed lineages including those from Africa, but until you will show me that the ancient Greeks themselves were actually all black in appearance then there is really nothing more for you to say.
Posts: 26280 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Djehuti, there are not scientific dating results that I know of proving where these items came from. They are European specialist fabrications. Evil geniuses who draw and sketch **** when they realized they actually had no trace of White history at the level of Ancient Kemet!
None of this White Greek crap you're posting has been proven to date into the B.C. times. It is a very simple pattern White specialist’s follow and it goes something like this: Whenever Europe can't find a trace of some historical White accomplishment, they make one up. This is why White people sketch a lot as the do in this film: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEJHltQwjfc and give more excuses than a 10 year old. You people are still posting snap-shots of modern-day European artworks and passing it off as some, mysterious works of ancient White people without any pure scientific prove testing the materials of these artworks. ****, I’d love to test these things myself along with some great friends at top Universities who have access to excellent facilities for testing almost anything they wish. We test all kinds of things all the time. This is the only time I would believe anything coming out of Europe, when my own results prove them correct.
It is because these lies have gone unchallenged for such a long time that they tell it with effortless confidence. But it's still a lie with either bad fabricated proof of origin or no proof at all.
-------------------- The one who built them! Posts: 179 | From: United States | Registered: Jan 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Kemson: Djehuti, there are not scientific dating results that I know of proving where these items came from. They are European specialist fabrications. Evil geniuses who draw and sketch **** when they realized they actually had no trace of White history at the level of Ancient Kemet!
None of this White Greek crap you're posting has been proven to date into the B.C. times. It is a very simple pattern White specialist’s follow and it goes something like this: Whenever Europe can't find a trace of some historical White accomplishment, they make one up. This is why White people sketch a lot as the do in this film: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEJHltQwjfc and give more excuses than a 10 year old. You people are still posting snap-shots of modern-day European artworks and passing it off as some, mysterious works of ancient White people without any pure scientific prove testing the materials of these artworks. ****, I’d love to test these things myself along with some great friends at top Universities who have access to excellent facilities for testing almost anything they wish. We test all kinds of things all the time. This is the only time I would believe anything coming out of Europe, when my own results prove them correct.
It is because these lies have gone unchallenged for such a long time that they tell it with effortless confidence. But it's still a lie with either bad fabricated proof of origin or no proof at all.
Very well, where is the artistic evidence for black Greeks?
Oh, and Djehuti, can you identify some cultural parallels between ancient Greek and Near Eastern customs? Do you think this would suffice to justify classifying ancient Greece as "Near Eastern"?
Posts: 7082 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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Then your suggestion would fly right in the face of pretty much all evidence including direct sources and depictions of the ancient Greeks themselves. 
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