posted
Means little; according to the Oxford mainstream crowd the AEs are still a "contested race".
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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Thats the sad thing about breaking barriers. It takes time for change to be acknoweledged and we see alot of people jumping through hoops to twist and turn the TRUTH to serve their purpose.
It's not an easy road to trod, but we can make a difference by pressing the mainstream with right and to the point questions that forces the TRUTH out of them.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing: Means little; according to the Oxford mainstream crowd the AEs are still a "contested race".
DO YOU EVER SHUT UP? SLEEP? SO ANYTHING NORMAL? RACIST
Posts: 32 | From: Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans. | Registered: May 2010
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posted
Eurafrican was an old term that referred to the old mediterranean type which is euphamism for Negro, just like the term Armenoid.
You asked an important question. The answers to this questions are not simple but I will try and explain. The Elamites, Sumerians, Tamil and Mande speakers formerly lived in the Sahara. In ancient times these people were called Kushites, and were related to the C-Group people.
When we compare lexical items from these languages we can see the similarities. These languages also share many cognate terms.
ENGLISH SUMERIAN MANDING TAMIL chief kal,kala keletigi gasa(n) field gan ga kalan eye(l) igi akki eye(2) ini,en nya kan arrow kak kala kakam granary kur k'urk'ur kutir road sila sila caalai father pap pa appan lord manus mansa mannan male mu moko maakkal to recite sid siti to buy sa sa cel grain se se seed gen ge 'to sprout'
═════════════════════════λ 2;═════════════════════════ 552;═════════════ English Dravidian Manding top, summit kona kun one ondu do two pattu ta four naal nani person uki moko fish(filet) bale bake skin uri wuru,guru house lon lu head kuku ku tongue na ne blacksmith inumu numu foot karal koro liver karal kura mud burada boro, buru give idu di stone kaly kulu cloud kaar ka, kaba fire ti ta mountain kunru kuru elder,grandfather maama maamaa ═════════════════════════λ 2;═════════════════════════ 552;═════════════ ELAMITE ENGLISH MANDING ak and ka turna know, awaken kuna, fori sahri death sa murta to erect kura mar from a place ma li give di tela to go tara Nap God Nala tus habitation du husu illomened dyugu kuta lance keru lan,lani silver dala ki one killi ta place ta kik sky,heaven ka sari sculpter se ufat steel tuufa tela to go ta khali great ka dau help deema ko king,lord ka na say na para to watch fereke
As you can see Mande shares many terms with both Sumerian and Tamil. Although they share lexical items we can also see differences between the three languages. These differences probably are the result of the migration patterns of these groups into Asia. The historical research make it clear that the Sumerians left Africa first. They would have interacted with the Ubaid people who were the rulers of Mesopotamia when the Sumerians arrived. Naturally these two different people would have exchanged lexical items.
The Tamil speakers settled the Indus Valley. Another group of Tamil speakers along with Mande speaking people landed in Iran founded the Elamite civilization and migrated from there across Central Asia into China and beyond in search of metals. The Tamil speaking Tamil used a syllabic script.
When we compare monosyllabic Tamil and Sumerian terms we see great similarities, that prove the genetic relations between these two languages which Loga refers to as Sumero-Tamil. After the fall of the Harappan civilization the Tamil speaking people began to migrate into South India.
In China the Tamil founded the Shang civilization. They were defeated by the Shang-Anyang people who spoke Austro-Asiatic languages.
The Tamil migrated into Yunnan Province and from there into Southeast Asia which was probably sparsely occupied at this time by Austro-Asiatic speaking people. As the Hua or Han people forced the Austro-Asiatic people from North China, some Austro-Asiatic people began to push the Tamil speakers across Southeast Asia into India.
Many of the Austro-Asiatic people were still living in India .During the interactions between the Austro-Asiatic and Tamil speakers there was probably an exchange of lexical items as a result of bilingualism in Southeast Asia and later India.
The Austro-Asiatic speakers mainly remained in the North, while the Tamil from Southeast Asia probably continued southward to join the Tamil speakers of the Indus Valley who were by then living in South India.Other Dravidian speaking people probably entered India from the land mass that formerly connected India and Africa.
As a result of these migrations we can explain the differences in lexical items between Sumerian and Tamil by possible periods of bilingualism among Austro-Asiatic and Tamil speakers, and Sumerian and Ubaid speakers.
There is also a close relationship between the Austronesian /Polynesian, Manding and Tamil languages:
English Austronesian Tamil Manding
house,building *balay gibu,pura fa, ba
write *surat carru sewe
iron,metal *bari irumpu bara 'tongs of the blacksmith'
cultivate,arable land *babaw bey,benni be
yam *qubi kiranku,kuni ku
garden *qumah kalli ka
dog *wasu ori wuru
canoe,boat *qaban kalam kulu
holy man *datu,tu'i tuyan tu
deity ku ko ku
high chief mana mannan mansa
unit of land mo'o man ma
fallow land *talun natu dugu
pondfield lo'i pulam
stone chisel ko'i kere
The cognition of these languages is not surprising given the affinity between the Dravidian languages in spoken Southeast Asia and the Pacific.
posted
Although they may have had the same root I believe Elam and Tamil left Africa long before the development of C-group which was one of the later expressions of the Red and Black ware culture.
From what I've read C-group people were also largely pastoralists affiliated with both bovidian Libyan culture and pastoralist Sudanic cultures.
-------------------- D. Reynolds-Marniche Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: Although they may have had the same root I believe Elam and Tamil left Africa long before the development of C-group which was one of the later expressions of the Red and Black ware culture.
From what I've read C-group people were also largely pastoralists affiliated with both bovidian Libyan culture and pastoralist Sudanic cultures.
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: Although they may have had the same root I believe Elam and Tamil left Africa long before the development of C-group which was one of the later expressions of the Red and Black ware culture.
From what I've read C-group people were also largely pastoralists affiliated with both bovidian Libyan culture and pastoralist Sudanic cultures.
What is your evidence for this proposition?
.
The first and most important evidence is that Elam dates long before the C-group culture and thus if it is related it must have have the same source as the C group somewhere in the Sahara. I get that source from what has been discovered found about the neolithic Saharan culture and its relationship to C-group and early Nubian/Nilotic culture, i.e. A - group, Amratian, Naqqada etc.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
I don't think the average sumerian was black in 4000b.c to 2000b.c for example,but i don't think most were white either. Now some were black and some were white. Most were brown phenotype wise.
Anyway anybody else want to post what race the average sumerian looked like?
Note- i posted 4000b.c because that's the start of sumerian civilization,so even if most were black in mesopotamia it was way back in the past or before sumerian civilization in mesopotamia.
Posts: 2560 | From: Somewhere | Registered: May 2012
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posted
^ I agree with your assessment. I think the average Sumerian was a "brown" type. The "Australoid" phenotype in discussion is mostly associated with Proto-Euphrateans who preceded the Sumerians.
-------------------- Mahirap gisingin ang nagtutulog-tulugan. Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ I agree with your assessment. I think the average Sumerian was a "brown" type. The "Australoid" phenotype in discussion is mostly associated with Proto-Euphrateans who preceded the Sumerians.
As of 2022, I agree. And those "Australoids" in all probability were people of a phenotype similar to the early UP/LSA colonists of Arabia from Africa, not necessarily close relatives of modern Australasians.
posted
^ I'm curious as to how much related to Africans they were if any. Perhaps 'Basal Eurasian'?
What is known is that the Proto-Euphrateans did have 'southern' features.
'Excavations at Kish' (1931): Buxton and Rice on Sumerian remains- "The forehead was retreating and the brow ridges were always prominent, the cheek bones were rather broad and the nose also was broad, in some case inclining to extreme platyrrhine… There can be no doubt that this type is that which has been described by Sergi, Giuffrida-Ruggeri, and Fleure, and named the Eurafican type…" T.K. Penniman- "First there is the Eurafrican.. In ancient times, this type is found in Mesopotamia and Egypt and may be compared with the Ombe Capelle skull. It is possibly identical with men who lived in the high desert west of the Nile in paleolithic times.."
Interestingly, the author of the last source above makes note of similarities to peoples of India that tend to get glossed over. This also makes me think of the Arab-Indian HBS gene that may be another clue to ancient African connections.
Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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-------------------- It's not my burden to disabuse the ignorant of their wrong opinions Posts: 2699 | From: New York | Registered: Jun 2015
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posted
Here's an interesting study on the Marsh Arabs of southern Iraq who are presumed to be the closest descendants of the Sumerians:
In search of the genetic footprints of Sumerians: a survey of Y-chromosome and mtDNA variation in the Marsh Arabs of Iraq Abstract Background For millennia, the southern part of the Mesopotamia has been a wetland region generated by the Tigris and Euphrates rivers before flowing into the Gulf. This area has been occupied by human communities since ancient times and the present-day inhabitants, the Marsh Arabs, are considered the population with the strongest link to ancient Sumerians. Popular tradition, however, considers the Marsh Arabs as a foreign group, of unknown origin, which arrived in the marshlands when the rearing of water buffalo was introduced to the region.
Results To shed some light on the paternal and maternal origin of this population, Y chromosome and mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) variation was surveyed in 143 Marsh Arabs and in a large sample of Iraqi controls. Analyses of the haplogroups and sub-haplogroups observed in the Marsh Arabs revealed a prevalent autochthonous Middle Eastern component for both male and female gene pools, with weak South-West Asian and African contributions, more evident in mtDNA. A higher male than female homogeneity is characteristic of the Marsh Arab gene pool, likely due to a strong male genetic drift determined by socio-cultural factors (patrilocality, polygamy, unequal male and female migration rates).
Conclusions Evidence of genetic stratification ascribable to the Sumerian development was provided by the Y-chromosome data where the J1-Page08 branch reveals a local expansion, almost contemporary with the Sumerian City State period that characterized Southern Mesopotamia. On the other hand, a more ancient background shared with Northern Mesopotamia is revealed by the less represented Y-chromosome lineage J1-M267*. Overall our results indicate that the introduction of water buffalo breeding and rice farming, most likely from the Indian sub-continent, only marginally affected the gene pool of autochthonous people of the region. Furthermore, a prevalent Middle Eastern ancestry of the modern population of the marshes of southern Iraq implies that if the Marsh Arabs are descendants of the ancient Sumerians, also the Sumerians were most likely autochthonous and not of Indian or South Asian ancestry.
Go to: Background The Near East is well known for its important role in human history, particularly as a theatre for great historical events that changed the face of the world during the Neolithic period. The temperate climate and fertile soil brought by the continuous flooding of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers, made the Mesopotamian region ideal for early revolutions in agriculture and farming. In particular, the southern part of Mesopotamia (the delta between the two rivers in the present day southern Iraq) has been historically known as the Garden of Eden (biblical name) or Sumer Land, the land of Abraham.
The Mesopotamian civilization originated around the 4th millennium BC in the low course of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. This alluvial territory, which emerged progressively by soil sedimentation, attracted different populations from the northern and eastern mountains but, whereas traces of their culture are present in the territory, as documented by the Ubaid-Eridu pottery, nothing is available for their identification. Only two groups of populations arrived later and in larger number leaved historical records: Sumerian and Semitic groups. The Sumerians, who spoke an isolated language not correlated to any linguistic family, are the most ancient group living in the region for which we have historical evidence. They occupied the delta between the two rivers in the southern part of the present Iraq, one of the oldest inhabited wetland environments. The Semitic groups were semi-nomadic people who spoke a Semitic language and lived in the northern area of the Syro-Arabian desert breeding small animals. From here, they reached Mesopotamia where they settled among the pre-existing populations. The Semitic people, more numerous in the north, and the Sumerians, more represented in the south, after having adsorbed the pre-existing populations, melted their cultures laying the basis of the western civilization.
-------------------- Mahirap gisingin ang nagtutulog-tulugan. Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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