posted
^ That is just a coincidence. The ancient Egyptian depiction of Amenhotep III shows him wearing the blue crown which is a military headdress worn by pharaohs and has nothing to do with the Tutsi hairstyle.
It is in fact an error to say the Tutsi are descended from Egypt since there is no evidence of this.
Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote: a recorded album of Tutsi music where there are pictures of a Tutsi musician playing the exact same instrument and dressed in the exact same clothes as that found on the walls of Kemet.
Tutsi
Tutsi
Yes indeed, quite reasonable proof of common African hairstyles throughout the continent and the ages.....
Young Ramesis vs. Young Masai hair style.
^ But *not* proof of Ancient Egyptian ancestry, obviously.
PS - I would still like to see the photo with the exact same instrument.
What photo, what instrument?
Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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And again, this is not a hairstyle but a headdress or actually helment called the khepresh or blue crown.
It was worn as a military headdress.
Haru, you can learn more about Egyptian crowns here,,, and Egyptian hairstyles here and here!
Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Yes, I know it's a crown/headdress but some believe its texture is based on the texture of African hair.
This was Wally's original 'point' about Tutsi hair-style being similar to Kemetic crowns.
re:
a Tutsi princess, whose hair style was shaped in the exact manner of the famous crown worn by Nefertiti
I agree that this is so, but note this is true of a number of African peoples and represents cultural affinity via similar aesthetics and hair textures and hair-styles, but not geneology, as in 'therefore tutsi come from ancient egypt'.
Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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Just as the Tutsi man's hairstyle shown on this topic seems to be an emulation of the Pharaohs crown, so also does this Tutsi woman's hairstyle seems to be an emulation of the Queens crown.
The Crown of Nefertiti
(Note: there are also similarities between Ancient Egyptian crowns and those worn by the traditional peoples of Kenya...)
However, what is missing are the images from the back of the album that I could display, and if I recall, there was an insert of photos, where the interested here can compare the representations of the Tutsi, their musical instruments, their dress, their cattle with that of the Ancient Egyptians. (This seems to be a new re-released album, so there's no guarantee that the images are still included... The adventurous can search out a copy at places which sell vinyl records; it may even prove to be a good investment if you can find the original pressing!
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
^ I don't see any similarity at all. In fact i saw more similarities between the Watutsi hairstyle and Kmtwy blue crown than I do with regent's headdress (not really queen's crown) and that other Watutsi style.
Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Here are a small list of some of the african words we use in the West Indies.
asue or asue draw
noun: a form of savings where a group of people pay an agreed sum of money on a periodic basic (usually monthly) and each period one member of the group takes all the money that has been paid in (i.e. "draws" their share). This practice has been traced to a Yoruba credit system, similar schemes are common in other caribbean countries, eg. the susu in Barbados eg. the asue in the bahamas
benny
noun: sesame seeds - as in Benny Cake, a popular snack. Origin: West African, still used in Ghana.
nanny
noun: feces/faeces verb: to defecate (origin : From Ashanti Twi word of the same meaning)
yinna
pronoun: you (plural). Origin: from the Yoruba word ‘yin’
duppy meaning 'ghost', from the Twi word adope
obeah, also from Twi, meaning a type of African spell-casting or witchcraft (and also used as a popular scapegoat for common woes
quote:Originally posted by Wally: African Americans: A Pan-African people
The north western slave port at Goree Island, Senegal was only one of several points of departure for Africans being taken to the United States. There were other points as well, stretching as far southward as the present state of Angola. These ports of departure were used for transporting Africans from the African interior - a vast interior. Thus, the ethnic origin of African Americans includes, but is not limited to, the following African peoples:
(Names in bold identify ethnic groups whose origins can be traced back, without doubt, to the Nile Valley civilizations)
Northwest Africa to the Gulf of Guinea; Mossi, Senufo, Mande, Fulani, Toubou, Fulbe, Sara, Moussei, Massa, Wolof, Akan, Ewe, Mandinga, Songhai, Tuareg, Moor, Hausa, Yoruba, Ibo, Kanuri, Ibibio, Tiv, Ijaw...
In everything, there is both positive as well as negative elements. One of the positive elements of the African slave trade to the United States, was that it created the first contemporary Pan-African ethnic group; a group with a common language and culture and separated only by class distinctions. To their credit, African Americans, despite the insidious European labeling of some African Americans as 'mulattoes,' 'quadroons,' etc., clearly rejected the caste system that was adopted in Haiti or Jamaica (or South Africa) for example. Marcus Garvey, when he first brought his movement from Jamaica, found this out the hard way, when he tried to use this caste distinction from Jamaica in the USA vis-a-vis WEB DuBois.To Garvey's credit, he quickly adjusted his thinking to this African American ideology of a caste-free community.
African Americans have the unique distinction of being historically-genetically related to a vast majority of African ethnic-linguistic groups. In this sense, the African American identification to all African cultures is not merely a philosophical one, as in the case of a European Swede identifying with a European ancient Greece.
The African Americans' identification with all African cultures, including and especially, the ancient Nile valley cultures, is both historically and genetically authentic and valid. It has nothing at all to do with what one chooses to believe ...
However, most confused individuals, seem to want to put Africans into neat little rigid compartments as if Africans (indeed all humans) are not a mobile group of peoples, rather than accept the historical reality that western Africans have moved to the east; eastern Africans have moved both westward and southward. The Ancient Egyptians originated, like most Africans, in the regions of the Great Lakes; how did they end up so far north? The Batutsi of Rwanda and Burundi did not always inhabit those territories. When the Europeans began to settle in the area of south Africa, the Bantu migrations were still pushing southwards... This approach to African history; of stagnant ethnicites, and of non-migrations is not only simplistic and immature, it is completely wrong. Human civilization is one continuous and collective historical process, where no one people, in isolation, creates a culture, unaware of the knowledge developed by others.
If I were engaged in a paternity suit and I wanted to determine whether or not the child was mine, I would demand a DNA test. But, there is NO DNA test that can tell me the extent and the individuality of all of my African (and non-African) ancestors:
Prior to DNA, blood tests were a less reliable indicator of parantage, but useful. Blood tests also showed that West Africans and Upper Egyptians had the same blood types; but neither blood tests nor DNA can tell me, or anyone else the various peoples that came together to generate me!
If I were to trace my ancestry to "Kunta Kente" in the region that is now within the country of Senegal, I would not be so naive as to believe that he is my "Adam" but merely only one of them; this reality/objective truth seems to go over a lot of folks' head...
(Aside Note: I also recall reading an old anthropological text in the stacks of the library which gave the ancestral lineages of mostly European groups, and was astounded to find that much of the ancestry of the German nationality was Asian, mostly hun (and hence the offensive term for a German - Kraut); and this was written long before DNA research! I don't think it was a book by Ashley Montagu, but maybe it was, but a prominent anthropologist from the 1950's; there's a wealth of info in the old texts. But, I have read a lot of books, so I'm not sure of the source for this... )
Posts: 318 | From: PA. USA | Registered: Jan 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Wally: Unfortunately, there are very few images on traditional Tutsi culture; the only images usually available has to do with the wars in Rwanda and Burundi.
I wish that I could illustrate the picture of the Tutsi princess here in order to show you how empty your argument is about comparing Angela Davis' afro to that worn by Tiye; the Tutsi princesses' hairdo is an exact replica of the crown worn by Nefertiti...
Calling King Solomon's Mines a 'racist' movie has little to do with the illustration of the evidence provided in the referenced segment of the movie...
quote: Rwanda Official name: Republic of Rwanda Independence from Germany/Belgium: 1962
The region was first colonized by the Hutu in the fourteenth century. The subsequent arrival of the Tutsi in the fifteenth century resulted in a Tutsi lord/Hutu serf society. This Tutsi domination was reinforced by German and Belgian colonization from 1890. Since independence in 1962 continued violence has erupted between the two factions. (from About.com[/b]:African History
About:
quote: Egypt, to the Egyptians. Kemet means "black land," and refers to the rich soil of Egypt. It is the root of the word "alchemy."
Pronunciation: Keh-met• (noun)
Related Resources:
* Kemet The beliefs and practices of Kemet, a modern revival of ancient Egyptian religious practices. * The Papyrus of Ani Read the Book of the Dead in its entirety. * Egyptian Symbols
quote:Originally posted by lamin: R U 2 Religious,
One should be circumspect about those pay DNA tests. I read recently where a Belgian man whose ancestors never travelled to the Americas(including himself) was told that he had substantial Native American ancestry.
Unless one has direct knowledge of ancestry those tests should be treated with some circumspection.
Conversely: I recently saw clips of the Fiji rugby team play Wales and if I were ignorant of geography I could have easily assumed that the Fiji team was an African team--speed of foot, vigour and lots of panache.
*Yet* DNA analysis informs us that Fijians do not belong to the set of African lineages.
Lamin, always getting black to us on the sporting tip.
quote:Originally posted by rasol: [QB] Relevant how? Other than as and example of stereotyping?
You are aware of the claim that North American Kenniwick man supposedly looks like "Capt Picard" of StarTrek?
Unsubstantiated anecdote should not be confused for evidence.
quote:It's clear based upon Genetics, and anthropology, and geography, and historical record, and linguistics, that Pacific Islander, in general, do not have recent African ancestry.
They are descendant from -paleolithic- populations that migrated from South Asia to the Pacific over 50 thousand years ago.
Genetics is consistent with every other discipline with regards to this.
...
quote:Originally posted by lamin: Crocodiles and the ordinary house cockroach have remained virtually unchanged over the last 60 million years. Thus it is quite possible that Pacific Islanders such as Fijians and Solomon Islanders have retained the same traits with which they left Africa some 50,000 years ago. The new lineages that developed as a result of genomic mutations only tell us how long ago the Pacific Islanders migrated away from the African mainland.
^ First thought that comes to mind.
but, however
quote:Originally posted by rasol: -- Your personal observation on Rubgy is non-sequitur, since it does not suggest or relate anything about common ancestry. It's like suggesting that the precense of South African - Steve Nash - as NBA basketball player MVP, shows the common African ancestry, with African Americans.
Steve Nash is white.
LOL!
Sorry, linguistics is no substitute for genetics, and personal observation dam sure isn't.
Remember, stick with the topic. You were talking about genetics.
You stated you're observation, then stated:
quote:Lamin: Yet DNA
As if to imply some possible fault in DNA testing. Nothing wrong with that. Just keeping things into context.
quote:Re Nash: From what I have read and seen African Americans do not consider Nash a great player nor is he seen as bringing to the game anything resembling their particular style of play.
RE: The Fijian Rugby team that just defeated Wales(Rugby World Cup)--that's just my casual observation. I(again my subjective impressions)note that African football teams show a similar lind of athletic vigour, speed and panache. The same for those European football teams that have noticeable numbers of African/black players.
African-Native American Genealogy Forum
Re: NATIVE AMERICAN ANCESTRY
Posted By: David Cornsilk Date: Monday, 22 May 2006, at 2:51 p.m.
In Response To: NATIVE AMERICAN ANCESTRY (Debra Diaz)
The only light that can be shed on the current status of DNA testing for Native American genes is that it is unreliable. There has not been adequate testing and documentation of Native genes from proven tribal people for those with unproven ancestry to use DNA as reliable proof of Indian ancestry.
As badly as many want to claim Native American heritage, DNA, at this point, is not the answer. I have several friends who have taken DNA tests and have all received similar results. Their tests came back showing them to be Native American with varying percentages ranging from 3% to 30%. All of them are genealogists with proveable lineages only to European immigrants.
Amazingly, my friend who showed the highest percentage of Native ancestry was born in Belgium of a German mother and a French father. His ancestry never came close to America, he is a legal immigrant, green card and all, with no genetic ties to the native people of the Americas. And mathematically and logically, 30 percent Indian ancestry would mean he is more than 1/4 Indian. That translates to at least one full blood Indian grandparent. That's just not possible in his lineage.
My recommendation to you and anyone hoping to learn the truth about their ancestry, at least as much of the truth as is available, would be to begin with yourself, document each generation with records, until you run out of records and then go demand your money back from the people that gave you the DNA test.
Also, DNA specifications are in order, after all early arrivers ['Native Americans'] to the Americas were a subset of East Asians.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Sep 2005
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Just as the Tutsi man's hairstyle shown on this topic seems to be an emulation of the Pharaohs crown, so also does this Tutsi woman's hairstyle seems to be an emulation of the Queens crown.
The Crown of Nefertiti
(Note: there are also similarities between Ancient Egyptian crowns and those worn by the traditional peoples of Kenya...)
^ Thank you and yes, actually I do see the similarity. Moreover, I think you are on firmer ground with your general observation about traditional African hairstyle and headdress.
At the very least, it should occur to Wally that you are looking at traditional African aesthetic, not something *invented* in Egypt and which therefore can only be demically distributed by 'exiled egyptians'.
Now, I'm not going to bother to reiterate how completely ridiculous it is to profer hair style aesthetics as evidence of Ancient Egyptian ancestry.
Rather I will advise you again and again, you must begin study of genetics if you want to comment on geneology without embarrassing yourself.
There is no evidence that Tutsi come from Egypt.
Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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There is no evidence that Tutsi come from Egypt. [/QB]
The topic of this conversation is "African American and Ancient Egyptians"; it was never stated by me here about the origins of the Tutsi, who are clearly not from Rwanda/Burundi, nor are the Hutu... There is clear and documented evidence that the peoples of Senegal, principally the Wolof originated from Ancient Egypt; The Wolof people formed an influential portion of the Africans who live in Louisiana which therefore supports the obvious that African-Americans (of more than c5generations) can trace their origins to this ancient Nilotic complex which we generally refer to as Kemet...Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Wally: It was never stated by me here about the origins of the Tutsi.
ahem.....
quote:Originally posted by Wally: Not only are the Tutsi migrant Africans from Ethiopia, but came originally from Kemet
^ No evidence.
quote:Originally posted by Wally: There is clear and documented evidence that the peoples of Senegal, principally the Wolof originated from Ancient Egypt.
quote:Originally posted by Wally: It was never stated by me here about the origins of the Tutsi.
ahem.....
quote:Originally posted by Wally: Not only are the Tutsi migrant Africans from Ethiopia, but came originally from Kemet
^ No evidence.
quote:Originally posted by Wally: There is clear and documented evidence that the peoples of Senegal, principally the Wolof originated from Ancient Egypt.
Which would be?
You obviously have this Tutsi hangup for some reason; perhaps it was the movie; this topic is not about the Tutsi for I have never listed the Tutsi people as being a significant part of the trans-Atlantic slave trade (The fact that I responded to you that they indeed were part of the Ancient Nile Valley Civilization, was besides the point of this topic, even though they were)...
J. Olumide Lucas has chronicled the origins of the Yoruba and Cheikh Anta Diop has chronicled the origins of the Wolof and a recent member of this panel has also provided evidence of the origins of the Akan people of Ghana from Ancient Egypt- all of this information can be found on this forums' archives; It is just the facts as revealed by history and is indisputable; but just for an example... See, for a refresher: http://www.geocities.com/wally_mo/egypt_lang.html
quote:Originally posted by Wally: African Americans: A Pan-African people
The north western slave port at Goree Island, Senegal was only one of several points of departure for Africans being taken to the United States. There were other points as well, stretching as far southward as the present state of Angola. These ports of departure were used for transporting Africans from the African interior - a vast interior. Thus, the ethnic origin of African Americans includes, but is not limited to, the following African peoples:
(Names in bold identify ethnic groups whose origins can be traced back, without doubt, to the Nile Valley civilizations)
Northwest Africa to the Gulf of Guinea; Mossi, Senufo, Mande, Fulani, Toubou, Fulbe, Sara, Moussei, Massa, Wolof, Akan, Ewe, Mandinga, Songhai, Tuareg, Moor, Hausa, Yoruba, Ibo, Kanuri, Ibibio, Tiv, Ijaw...
In everything, there is both positive as well as negative elements. One of the positive elements of the African slave trade to the United States, was that it created the first contemporary Pan-African ethnic group; a group with a common language and culture and separated only by class distinctions. To their credit, African Americans, despite the insidious European labeling of some African Americans as 'mulattoes,' 'quadroons,' etc., clearly rejected the caste system that was adopted in Haiti or Jamaica (or South Africa) for example. Marcus Garvey, when he first brought his movement from Jamaica, found this out the hard way, when he tried to use this caste distinction from Jamaica in the USA vis-a-vis WEB DuBois.To Garvey's credit, he quickly adjusted his thinking to this African American ideology of a caste-free community.
African Americans have the unique distinction of being historically-genetically related to a vast majority of African ethnic-linguistic groups. In this sense, the African American identification to all African cultures is not merely a philosophical one, as in the case of a European Swede identifying with a European ancient Greece.
The African Americans' identification with all African cultures, including and especially, the ancient Nile valley cultures, is both historically and genetically authentic and valid. It has nothing at all to do with what one chooses to believe ...
However, most confused individuals, seem to want to put Africans into neat little rigid compartments as if Africans (indeed all humans) are not a mobile group of peoples, rather than accept the historical reality that western Africans have moved to the east; eastern Africans have moved both westward and southward. The Ancient Egyptians originated, like most Africans, in the regions of the Great Lakes; how did they end up so far north? The Batutsi of Rwanda and Burundi did not always inhabit those territories. When the Europeans began to settle in the area of south Africa, the Bantu migrations were still pushing southwards... This approach to African history; of stagnant ethnicites, and of non-migrations is not only simplistic and immature, it is completely wrong. Human civilization is one continuous and collective historical process, where no one people, in isolation, creates a culture, unaware of the knowledge developed by others.
If I were engaged in a paternity suit and I wanted to determine whether or not the child was mine, I would demand a DNA test. But, there is NO DNA test that can tell me the extent and the individuality of all of my African (and non-African) ancestors:
Prior to DNA, blood tests were a less reliable indicator of parantage, but useful. Blood tests also showed that West Africans and Upper Egyptians had the same blood types; but neither blood tests nor DNA can tell me, or anyone else the various peoples that came together to generate me!
If I were to trace my ancestry to "Kunta Kente" in the region that is now within the country of Senegal, I would not be so naive as to believe that he is my "Adam" but merely only one of them; this reality/objective truth seems to go over a lot of folks' head...
(Aside Note: I also recall reading an old anthropological text in the stacks of the library which gave the ancestral lineages of mostly European groups, and was astounded to find that much of the ancestry of the German nationality was Asian, mostly hun (and hence the offensive term for a German - Kraut); and this was written long before DNA research! I don't think it was a book by Ashley Montagu, but maybe it was, but a prominent anthropologist from the 1950's; there's a wealth of info in the old texts. But, I have read a lot of books, so I'm not sure of the source for this... )
posted
^ Still don't see any evidence in there for Tutsi origins in Ethiopia or ultimate origins in Kemet. Nor do I see the same for West African groups like the Wolof.
Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
It would be nice to take this to the next level.
For example - do all West African peoples originate in Dynastic Kemet?
If the answer is no, then how can we deduce those that originate in Kemet from those that do not?
We need a systematic and objective method for determining West African origins, otherwise you end up channeling myth, whereby 1/3 of the population of West Africa comes from Egypt, 1/3 from Arabia, and the other 1/3 from Palestine.
^ I know Wally knows what i'm saying here.
Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
This is how things went down in Africa. West africans came and evolved from west africa, Most south east-africans migrated from central-africa and west-africa (that is the bantu speakers). Egyptians are the indigenous population to the northern nile region that is north east-africa, berbers are indigenous to north-west africa, Khoisan are the native people of southern Africa and lastly horn africans and nilo-saharans are the indigenious inhabitans of east-africa.
Thats how it was and that's how it always been, no Tutsi or fulani migrated from ethiopia, no Egyptians migrated to south, east or west africa, the only people that really mass-migrated were the east and central african bantu speakers from their original home in cameroon. All other theories of wolof or igbo comming from egypt or israel or Mande speakers being the founders of China, Greece, persia, Japan, Assyria etc. is just nonsense and based on wishfull thinking.
Posts: 1554 | Registered: Jul 2006
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This is how things went down in Africa. West africans came and evolved from west africa, Most south east-africans migrated from central-africa and west-africa (that is the bantu speakers). Egyptians are the indigenous population to the northern nile region that is north east-africa, berbers are indigenous to north-west africa, Khoisan are the native people of southern Africa and lastly horn africans and nilo-saharans are the indigenious inhabitans of east-africa.
Clarification: Multi-regional evolution of modern human types in Africa?
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Sep 2005
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This is how things went down in Africa. West africans came and evolved from west africa, Most south east-africans migrated from central-africa and west-africa (that is the bantu speakers). Egyptians are the indigenous population to the northern nile region that is north east-africa, berbers are indigenous to north-west africa, Khoisan are the native people of southern Africa and lastly horn africans and nilo-saharans are the indigenious inhabitans of east-africa.
Clarification: Multi-regional evolution of modern human types in Africa?
That's what it sounds like to me. Yonis2 is this supported by genetic data.
quote:Originally posted by Yonis2: This is how things went down in Africa. West africans came and evolved from west africa, Most south east-africans migrated from central-africa and west-africa (that is the bantu speakers). Egyptians are the indigenous population to the northern nile region that is north east-africa, berbers are indigenous to north-west africa, Khoisan are the native people of southern Africa and lastly horn africans and nilo-saharans are the indigenious inhabitans of east-africa.
Thats how it was and that's how it always been, no Tutsi or fulani migrated from ethiopia, no Egyptians migrated to south, east or west africa, the only people that really mass-migrated were the east and central african bantu speakers from their original home in cameroon. All other theories of wolof or igbo comming from egypt or israel or Mande speakers being the founders of China, Greece, persia, Japan, Assyria etc. is just nonsense and based on wishfull thinking.
This is how things went down in Africa. West africans came and evolved from west africa, Most south east-africans migrated from central-africa and west-africa (that is the bantu speakers). Egyptians are the indigenous population to the northern nile region that is north east-africa, berbers are indigenous to north-west africa, Khoisan are the native people of southern Africa and lastly horn africans and nilo-saharans are the indigenious inhabitans of east-africa.
Clarification: Multi-regional evolution of modern human types in Africa?
That's what it sounds like to me. Yonis2 is this supported by genetic data. .
To a certain extent, multi-regional cultural evolution is a fact of human history, including Africa. However, I will give Younis the benefit of the doubt that he is not suggesting modern Africa cultural histories sprang from distinct Homo Erectus populations.
Posts: 74 | From: USA | Registered: Jun 2007
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This is how things went down in Africa. West africans came and evolved from west africa, Most south east-africans migrated from central-africa and west-africa (that is the bantu speakers). Egyptians are the indigenous population to the northern nile region that is north east-africa, berbers are indigenous to north-west africa, Khoisan are the native people of southern Africa and lastly horn africans and nilo-saharans are the indigenious inhabitans of east-africa.
Clarification: Multi-regional evolution of modern human types in Africa?
That's what it sounds like to me. Yonis2 is this supported by genetic data. .
To a certain extent, multi-regional cultural evolution is a fact of human history, including Africa.
To what extent is multi-regional *biological* evolution of modern human types in Africa supported?
Yonis's claim seems to have been from a biological standpoint, pending elaboration from him, and hence, the clarification question was seeking an answer from that angle.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Sep 2005
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This is how things went down in Africa. West africans came and evolved from west africa, Most south east-africans migrated from central-africa and west-africa (that is the bantu speakers). Egyptians are the indigenous population to the northern nile region that is north east-africa, berbers are indigenous to north-west africa, Khoisan are the native people of southern Africa and lastly horn africans and nilo-saharans are the indigenious inhabitans of east-africa.
Clarification: Multi-regional evolution of modern human types in Africa?
That's what it sounds like to me. Yonis2 is this supported by genetic data. .
To a certain extent, multi-regional cultural evolution is a fact of human history, including Africa. However, I will give Younis the benefit of the doubt that he is not suggesting modern Africa cultural histories sprang from distinct Homo Erectus populations.
Multiregional cultural evolution is not accepted as the reason for variation within African populations. Most archaeologists see this variation resulting from varying diets over time rather than physical evolution.
Yonis2 is there genetic data disputing this hypothesis?
Varying diets is a function of cultural variation. Although cultural evolution should be kept conceptually distinct from physical evolution, the two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. As I'm sure you'll agree, diet impacts physical evolution.
Posts: 74 | From: USA | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Yonis's claim seems to have been from a biological standpoint, pending elaboration from him, and hence, the clarification question was seeking an answer from that angle.
I didn't read it that way. But Yonis can clarify if he wishes.
BTW, there is plenty of scholarship that locates culture in biology, i.e. the two exist dialectically. IMO, the noticeable differences in physical appearance between two individuals (to say nothing about two groups/populations) is prima facie evidence of bio-cultural evolution.
Posts: 74 | From: USA | Registered: Jun 2007
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As you can see, it's not necessarily an either/or scenario when comes to understanding the role of biology and culture in socio-cultural & physical evolution.
Posts: 74 | From: USA | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
^ Unfortunately, humans have the most complex behavior of any animal species or organism for that matter! In fact, much of human behavior even defies biological laws that govern most organisms, such as the law of survival for example!
It is this fact that human behavior cannot be placed in the simple evolutionary terms that govern other organisms.
Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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And again, this is not a hairstyle but a headdress or actually helment called the khepresh or blue crown.
It was worn as a military headdress.
Haru, you can learn more about Egyptian crowns here,,, and Egyptian hairstyles here and here!
Yes this was a crown but it is a crown based on a stylized representation of hair. The Egyptians had so many wigs and hair decorations that these crowns are just more formalized hair pieces. Even the during the old kingdom some hairstyles were made into crowns which were painted blue.
The so called nubian wig hairstyle of the Amarna period was also often shown in blue fiance and worn as a crown by the royals. And these crowns were not always painted blue and sometimes were depicted as black:
It is similar to the cap crown, which also was based on a stylized depiction of the hair:
Wally i have heard of all these tribes and the people who call themselves by these names But I have a Problem with One of them Who is this Moor u are talking about and Show me Evidence of Any Tribe in AFrica who calls themselves Moors
Posts: 68 | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
Does anyone know whether the music of Mali, especially that of Ali Farka Toure, labelled "desert blues," is more of a native development or has some Arabic influence? If so, to what degree? Bonnie Raitt mentions in an article quoted elsewhere on egyptsearch that northern Malian music is influenced by Arabs, but perhaps she is wrong. Ali Farka and Tinariwen do not sound like typical "Middle Eastern" music to me.
quote:Originally posted by Red,White, and Blue + Christian: Tinariwen
Mali Blues
By Phil Reser
Tinariwen
Musicians like Ry Cooder, Taj Mahal, Bonnie Raitt, Bruce Cockburn, Corey Harris, and Markus James have been exploring the African Mali connection to the roots of American Blues over the last decade.
British guitarist Justin Adams, a member of Robert Plant's band, produced the first recording of Tuareg desert Blues by the northern Malian group Tinariwen called The Radio Tisdas Sessions.
The Tamashek people of North Africa are a collection of nomad clans, with Berber (Amazight) roots, who make their home in the ever-expanding vastness of the Sahara Desert. Forced from their nomadic life, they became fighters in the Tuareg insurgency against the Malian government. It was in the rebel camp that the members of Tinariwen came together while fighting as soldiers and began forming music relating to not only the rebellion, but also the struggle of their people to be educated and to provide for themselves and their families.
Their songs and original fusion of Western-influenced Rock, Reggae, and Blues styles quickly caught the imagination of the Tuareg youth due to their lyrics, awakening political consciousness and evoking the plight of their people across the desert. By the mid-1980s, Tinariwen's songs of exile had crossed the desert via home recordings made on ghetto blasters and by the end of the decade the band's reputation for political protest had spread to the point where the Malian government outlawed the possession of any of their musical cassettes.
In 1999, when the French World Music group Lo'jo visited Mali, they met members of Tinariwen in the Malian capital, Bamako, and invited the group to perform at a huge festival in France. After the concert, Lo'jo asked Tinariwen if they thought it would be possible to have a music festival in the desert? They told Lo'jo yes and the result was the first "Festival in the Desert," which is now five years old and a World Music legend unto itself.
Tinariwen's most recent album, Amassakoul, was released in 2004 to widespread critical acclaim. Described as "Fela Kuti meets the Velvet Underground," "desert Blues," and "the Rolling Stones of the desert," it earned them the BBC Award for World Music 2005. In an interview, guitarist, singer, and songwriter Abdallah Ag Alhousseyni talked about his collective musical group. Alhousseyni was the band member who introduced electric guitars and bass to Tinariwen's music. He also brought the musical tapes of Bob Dylan, Bob Marley, and Malian guitarist Ali Farka Toure's bluesy interpretations of Songhai, Tamascheck, and other northern Malian folklore into the group.
Phil Reser for BluesWax: How would you describe your musical style?
Abdallah Ag Alhousseyni: Our style of music is modern Tuareg guitar music. That's it really.
Tinariwen at the 2005 Notodden Blues Festival
Photo by Art Tipaldi
BW: What type of instrumentation does the band use?
AAA: Guitars, percussion, voices, and handclaps.
BW: Do you experiment or collaborate with additional musicians at times?
AAA: Sometimes. We like working with musicians like Justin Adams, from Robert Plant's band, who has been producing our new album. We have also collaborated with Taj Mahal. Of course we also love collaborating with other desert musicians and friends. We've seen plenty of artists during tours in the last few years and we like meeting and talking to them. But mostly we just play our own style.
"We have a word 'assouf,' which means sadness, longing, nostalgia, pain in the heart, etc. In fact, it means 'Blues.'"
BW: How do you create your lyrical messages and what type of things do you sing about?
AAA: In fact Tinariwen is like a collective of songwriters. The main ones are Ibrahim, Hassan, Japonais, and myself, Abdallah. Each of us writes about what concerns us most and then we bring our songs to the group, and take it from there. The main themes are about nostalgia, friendship, loss, homesickness, education, desertification, love...all kinds of things. It's true that during the 1980s, Tinariwen's songs were often very militant, but they have always been very personal, too. It's just that our personal experience at that time was very militant!
BW: What kinds of ties do you see between the Northern and Western African music?
AAA: Of course there are plenty. To begin with, we sing in a Berber language called Tamashek, which is very close to the Berber languages of North Africa like Kabyle, Chleuch, and Chaoui. The Berber singers of North Africa are also very aware in their lyrics, talking about love, loss, and struggle just like us. So people see quite a lot of similarity between our music and that of artists like Ait Menguellet, Idir, or Ferhat. Then, in the 1980s, when we were often in Algeria or Libya, we absorbed a lot of North African music, especially Rai and all the Moroccan groups from the 1970s, like Nass El Ghiwane. Then there's Gnawa, which has its roots in West Africa, and which is such a huge influence on North African music. So these musical worlds are very close, just as they are in terms of language, culture, and society.
Photo by Art Tipaldi
BW: In what ways do African, and especially Tinariwen music, connect to the American Blues?
AAA: I think the connection is pretty close. A lot of the African American slaves who developed the Blues style could trace their ancestry back to West Africa and especially to the Niger Bend in Mali and Niger. That's the heart of the African Blues and the root of American Blues. And the Blues is about loss, pain, suffering, longing and we have had a lot of reason to feel those kinds of emotion in the past few decades. We have a word "assouf," which means sadness, longing, nostalgia, pain in the heart, etc. In fact, it means "Blues." So when we heard the American Blues for the first time, we were struck by the emotional connection. Then the actual music is very close, of course. Africans went to America centuries ago and took the kind of music that our traditional griots play over there. We're like cousins.
Do you know the name of that album? I am really interested in listening to music from different areas of Africa. Thanks.
quote:Originally posted by Wally: rasol, This topic is neither about DNA or the origins of the Tutsi (used here as examples only of human migrations). It is about the origins of African-Americans and how it is almost absolutely positive that much of the ancestry of African Americans is Nilotic or Nile valley... For example, C.A. Diop, who was a "Marxist" (IE, he used the African method of knowledge) viewed history as a process, and in explaining the origins of his own ethnic group he pointed out a settlement of Wolof in Ancient Egypt and he also traced their migration patterns through the Sudan, citing certain linguistic examples; while others have also traced their history (the Wolof) further across the northern Sahara/Sahel where they ended up today in Senegal, where many of them were transported from Senegambia to my home state of Louisiana: folks in Lousiana have a LOT of Wolof ancestry and customs (don't think so, read some books on Louisiana)...
(Aside Note: Not only are the Tutsi migrant Africans from Ethiopia, but came originally from Kemet. Again, to see this starkly you have to rely on "outdated" sources; a) a photo, which I recently saw again in a window of a Jamaican restaurant, of a Tutsi princess, whose hair style was shaped in the exact manner of the famous crown worn by Nefertiti
b)a recorded album of Tutsi music where there are pictures of a Tutsi musician playing the exact same instrument and dressed in the [b b)a recorded album of Tutsi music where there are pictures of a Tutsi musician playing the exact same instrument and dressed in the exact same clothes as that found on the walls of Kemet.
c) The movie King Solomon's Mines was merely reflecting what was already known; the origins of the Tutsi, which if taken further could have also explained the origins of the Yoruba, Wolof, and I seriously believe the Akan as well...
Diop was correct! Kemet was a federation of the collective peoples of Africa, who concentrated themselves in the Nile Valley and who created the first, and perhaps the greatest human cultures ever...
quote:Originally posted by R U 2 religious: This forum kind of remind me of a topic that is on the man page of ebonyissues.com
quote: posted by RU2religious:
Lately African Americans such as I have been getting caught up in this phenomenon called, “take DNA test to locate ancestry”, which many of us hope to find our common place within Africa. I’ve seen the commercial like many other people and you see African American jumping up for joy, as they are linked to certain tribes in Africa. What is fascinating to me about this test is some African American is popping up with 0 to 10% African ancestry which seems illogical. What determines one of African Ancestry and what determines one of European ancestry.
I know from family research that I have a lot of Native American within my family history but the irony of that is; the test will tell me that I have European DNA. For the purpose of keeping this topic simple I will evade using terminologies that most of us wouldn’t understand, but to sum it up Native Americans, East Africans, Mediterranean, and Aboriginals of Australia are considered to have European DNA. As it may be, this is an attempt to take Egypt out of Africa and make it none African in origins but we know that this is not possible and wont let that happen.
So, am I to believe that I’m half European even though there are not traces of European rapist in my line? Another point that gets me about the test is that they will say, “your DNA links you to the Wolof of Senegal-Gambia” but as an African American with common sense that sounds good but I know that there is a lot more to that. So let us say My Grandmothers, Mother was Wolof of Senegal-Gambia, but her father was Igbo of Nigeria and let us says that my Grandfathers, Mother were Akan of Ghana and his father was Dogon of Mali, does that still make me Wolof of Senegal-Gambia? I’m afraid to say that it doesn’t, but what it does make me, is a West African from what we know in Modern history. I personally believe that West Africa was a combination of many migrations from various parts of Africa but that’s another topic for another day.
Using the same scenario as the one used above, let us add a pinch of Native American, and a dash of Asians with some Oceanic oregano and we’ve become a new dish. So why do we call ourselves African Americans? Why does the African part mean so much more then the Native American, Asian, Oceanic or even European aspects of our characteristics? I was having a debate with some Africans from the Sahel and Somali; two different points in Africa and I was debating that African Americans are a combination of many cultures within Africa and they reminded me that I was not only mixed with several of West African cultures (kept me on debated topic) but that I was a mixture of other cultures.
I then pointed out that they are a mixture of various cultures too, especially after Africa was colonized by the Arabs, French, British, Scots, Portuguese and others … Now I know I was being childish but I had to go for mine, I means it was as though they cursed me with word of war. So now who are we and what makes an African American an A-A?
I don't know of any DNA testers that can give you a "percent". They simply identify certain DNA markers that match markers only found in certain regions of the world where they have a database of markers. The amount of "mixing" you describe can be a bit overstated, since it cannot just be a forgone conclusion that ALL diasporic Africans are mixed with native americans or europeans. You can easily put a Hausa, Fulani, Akan, or Igbo, amongst others, into America today and not be able to tell if they are from the continent or of the diaspora. Same for blacks of northern Sudan or Ethiopia.
What you typed is filled with pre-concieved assumptions about the history of diasporic africans and DNA tests.
Posts: 455 | From: Tharsis Montes | Registered: Jan 2009
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Wally i have heard of all these tribes and the people who call themselves by these names But I have a Problem with One of them Who is this Moor u are talking about and Show me Evidence of Any Tribe in AFrica who calls themselves Moors
Holy Amon! When will Africans stop referring to themselves with the colonial stigma of Tribes? (Even Native Americans sometimes repeat this label of submission.) For example: The Akan, Wolof, Yoruba, Hausa are NOT tribes, they are nationalities, ethnic groups, a people; there are very few tribal groups in Africa.
quote: But I have a Problem with One of them Who is this Moor u are talking about and Show me Evidence of Any Tribe in AFrica who calls themselves Moors
Have you never heard of the state of Mauritania??? The country is named after the Maurs or Maures -- Moors; there are white Moors and black Moors, and mixed Moors; they are not a tribe but Mauritanians are a nationality!
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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I don't see any similarity at all. In fact i saw more similarities between the Watutsi hairstyle and Kmtwy blue crown than I do with regent's headdress (not really queen's crown) and that other Watutsi style.
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