posted
what is so irritating about the documentary is to see in the re-enactment is so many white people playing AE. Although the main characters Kiya and Tuts wife were sistas, the characters were still overwhelmingly Euro, Leaving the impression of Euro domnance.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
One more thing, if you ever get in contact with these shoddy propagandists. Ask her why she refuses to use the skin tone the Egyptians used when they made his sculptures and paintings? Instead of playing this retarded game of, "But we don't know what color he might have been." We know, and so does she.
People like her use all kinds of BS rationalizations like, "Well, the pale-skinned depiction of Tut is accurate, because he was royalty, so he would have spent most of his time in the royal palace, out of the sun." Funny, the Egyptians sure didn't seem to think that about him. They thought he was dark brown under all circumstances. So why the continuance of the denial then?
After so many years of claiming the world is flat the Flat Earth Society now has to admit they were wrong. Worse, that they'd been lying. I know the peolpe on these boarsd have been fighting the good fight awhile but I hope you'll continue to be patient. Until recently I was one of those folks in the, "Maybe the Egyptians were a "blended" ethnicity." But unlike me these people were supposed to have based their scultpure off of exhaustive "research." To me that research seems to consisted entirely of watching The Ten Commandments. Most laypersons haven't seen Egyptian scultpures or wall-paintings. They haven't seen the Egyptian tomb paintings showing egyptians next to Caucasians and the way the Egytians clearly distringuished their skin tone from the whites. Most people still think the Egyptians were showing themselves as having really, REALLY dark tans. I'm a pretty smart guy (okay, I like to think I am!) but almost all of what I knew (thought I knew) of ancient egypt came from movies and novels written by the very people who ardently pretend that the earth is flat. It wasn't until VERY recently that I began to look into it with anything approaching more than a casual glance. Guess what I found, the depictions the Egytians left of themselves didn't look like some "blended" ethnic group (the new term many whites who still resist saying "black" are trying to use as a "compromise" term in the hopes critics like me will get off the "Tut was black" assertion) the depictions were defninitive, and the inescapable conclusion is that the Egytians were Africans of Ethiopian origin. Granted my "research"came almost entirely from pictures and sculptures they did, but what else do I need? When I took the ton of evidence the Egyptians left of themselves, how excrutiatingly throrough they were in documenting themeselves and everyone around them, I had to throw out the white, Cecil B Demille version of AE. BTW there's a scene in the Ten Commandments when Nefertiti is being carried by presumably Egyptians on a litter, and the guy out front of blonde!
Pressure MUST be applied to National Geographic, Time, whomever, that the dabate is over, was over the moment the first European looked at all those dark skinned people. Playing the game of, "If their skin is obsidian-black then they're just whites with a tan," is through. The naysayers who have tried to put forward the sham of Egypt not being black are ginally realizing the jig is up.
I'm convinced beyond all measure the Egytians were mroe than "dark," they were black. I just can't square the hair of a nubmer of them. Where's they get that stringy hair from?
Posts: 248 | From: Way Down South | Registered: Sep 2007
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That is part of the misconception . . .indegenous Africans do not have curly or straigtish hair. It most be due to admixture . . . NOT. See sticky above.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by sportbilly: One more thing, if you ever get in contact with these shoddy propagandists. Ask her why she refuses to use the skin tone the Egyptians used when they made his sculptures and paintings? Instead of playing this retarded game of, "But we don't know what color he might have been." We know, and so does she.
That is a big question I want to ask Jablonski or someone else ask! What reason do we have to "guess" about his color when we have several painted depictions including his painted bust! Which leads me to another thing that upsets me greatly-- Why the hell is the Nefertiti bust so prized over that it is over-shown and displayed and now even fought over, yet you hardly hear a peep let alone even see the painted bust of the most famous ancient Egyptian of them all, Tut?!!
Or maybe I am just asking questions that I already know the answer too, but I am just to angry to admit it!
quote:People like her use all kinds of BS rationalizations like, "Well, the pale-skinned depiction of Tut is accurate, because he was royalty, so he would have spent most of his time in the royal palace, out of the sun." Funny, the Egyptians sure didn't seem to think that about him. They thought he was dark brown under all circumstances. So why the continuance of the denial then?
The funny thing is that Jablonski's works were cited on numerous occasions on this thread mainly in that since the first humans were sub-saharan Africans they were of course black and the same is true for the first humans to leave Africa and colonize Eurasia and the rest of the world.
Now, what is so hard about admitting that Tut and the Egyptian people, as a population who never left Africa were also black?! The whole "they were somewhere between ebony black and lily white" is a huge and hilarious (if not frustrating) cop-out.
quote:After so many years of claiming the world is flat the Flat Earth Society now has to admit they were wrong. Worse, that they'd been lying. I know the peolpe on these boarsd have been fighting the good fight awhile but I hope you'll continue to be patient. Until recently I was one of those folks in the, "Maybe the Egyptians were a "blended" ethnicity." But unlike me these people were supposed to have based their scultpure off of exhaustive "research." To me that research seems to consisted entirely of watching The Ten Commandments.
Yes, flat-earth society is a perfect label. LOL What you have are people who are desperate to keep the 'old ways' or traditions of Eurocentrism.
quote:Most laypersons haven't seen Egyptian scultpures or wall-paintings. They haven't seen the Egyptian tomb paintings showing egyptians next to Caucasians and the way the Egytians clearly distringuished their skin tone from the whites. Most people still think the Egyptians were showing themselves as having really, REALLY dark tans. I'm a pretty smart guy (okay, I like to think I am!) but almost all of what I knew (thought I knew) of ancient egypt came from movies and novels written by the very people who ardently pretend that the earth is flat. It wasn't until VERY recently that I began to look into it with anything approaching more than a casual glance. Guess what I found, the depictions the Egytians left of themselves didn't look like some "blended" ethnic group (the new term many whites who still resist saying "black" are trying to use as a "compromise" term in the hopes critics like me will get off the "Tut was black" assertion) the depictions were defninitive, and the inescapable conclusion is that the Egytians were Africans of Ethiopian origin. Granted my "research"came almost entirely from pictures and sculptures they did, but what else do I need? When I took the ton of evidence the Egyptians left of themselves, how excrutiatingly throrough they were in documenting themeselves and everyone around them, I had to throw out the white, Cecil B Demille version of AE. BTW there's a scene in the Ten Commandments when Nefertiti is being carried by presumably Egyptians on a litter, and the guy out front of blonde!
Eurocentrism is perpetuated through propaganda, see here.
quote:Pressure MUST be applied to National Geographic, Time, whomever, that the dabate is over, was over the moment the first European looked at all those dark skinned people. Playing the game of, "If their skin is obsidian-black then they're just whites with a tan," is through. The naysayers who have tried to put forward the sham of Egypt not being black are ginally realizing the jig is up.
Unfortunately National Geographic actually started out as a racist publication of a Eurocentric view of the world and its cultures. Although it has gotten alot better over time, they still have some ways to go. A perfect example of this would be their genographic project where they labeled the E3b paternal lineage as "Near Eastern" in origin even though it originated in Africa!
quote:I'm convinced beyond all measure the Egytians were mroe than "dark," they were black. I just can't square the hair of a nubmer of them. Where's they get that stringy hair from?
What do you mean by "stringy" hair, and to what specific individuals did you come to this idea? Most Egyptians had curly to wavy hair. And many shaved their heads and wore wigs sometimes from plant fibers. I hope you don't use mummy hair as an example since, the hair form, texture, and sometimes color can be altered from the embalming chemicals used in mummification let alone thousands of years of corrosion.
Posts: 26349 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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The problem with these so-called professinals is that they try to incorpirate European custumes into this ancient African culture. Example,when scientist say that they meaning the ancient royal Egyptians would've been pale due to being inside all day is hella funny. Maybe royalty of Europe might have,but how can they imply that those ancients did that. It makes me so angry that scientist dissort the blantent truth. The dame writting is on the wall.
Posts: 62 | Registered: Jul 2007
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^ It's much more than falsely imposing European customs! The issue is over actual biology, and what this scientist has done is try to obfuscate, muddy, and make unclear what skin color Tut was when we know the bio-history as well as history of the Tut and the Egyptian people. And we even have portraits of him found his own tomb!
But even the idea that he stayed indoors was silly, since archaeology shows pharaohs spent a great deal of their time outdoors as well.
Posts: 26349 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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King Patroclus Exhibit Prompts Debate on His Skin Color by James Mfume-Jackson NPR Stories
Morning Edition, August 28, 2017 • The King Patroclus exhibition has drawn millions of visitors to museums across the country since it opened two years ago. But some European-American scholars believe the exhibition makes King Patroclus look too Black. The debate over Patroclus’ race led the Diop Institute of Science Museum in Atlanta, where the show is on display, to sponsor a conference on the subject.
The show, Patroclus and the Golden Age of the Myceneans has drawn a steady stream of protesters since it opened in Seattle. But nowhere have they been as persistent or vocal as in Atlanta.
More than 500 people showed up to hear scholars discuss Patroclus’ race at the Diop Institute. The auditorium couldn't hold them all, so the museum had to set up big-screen TVs in the lobby. The three speakers said the exhibition on display upstairs gives the false impression that King Patroclus was white.
And worse, says Temple University professor Andrew DeCamp, it implies that Greece is not a part of Europe.
"We asked the students as they were coming out of the museum, you've seen the exhibition of King Patroclus, 'Where is he from?'" DeCamp said. "You would discover that people can see the exhibition of Patroclus, and come out and not know that they have seen Europe."
A forensic reconstruction of Patroclus’ head and shoulders at the Diop Institute exhibit is remarkably lifelike, until you get right up close to it. On the side of the glass case, there is a disclaimer that reads, "The features of [Patroclus's] face are based on scientific data. But the exact color of his skin and hair cannot be determined with full certainty."
"Our best guess is that he was neither lily white nor ebony black. He was probably somewhere in between," said Ebony Lawson, author of Greece: Between Africa and Western Europe.
Lawson teaches anthropology at Howard University. She also served as an advisor to the team from the National Geographic Society that produced the forensic reconstruction of King Patroclus that's currently on display. Lawson points out that it's only a working hypothesis. Scientists have not been able to retrieve much DNA evidence from Patroclus or other ancient Mycenaean cemeteries.
But they do have a good idea of who lived in Greece 3,000 years ago — and she says they probably looked a lot like Grecians today.
"Modern Grecians are a very heterogeneous group," Lawson said. "Some of them have very African features such as dark hair and eye color. Others of them have very European or so-called Southern European features. This is because the Greece itself was a tremendous byway for movement of people in the past and present."
Lawson says Patroclus’ skin probably looked like a mixture of those people, only darker, because as a young prince he would have spent most of his time outside, training as a warrior-prince and unprotected from the sun. The speakers at the Diop Institute presentation rejected that hypothesis. In fact, they seemed to enjoy making fun of it.
"Okay, now let's look what this really is about. This is shocking. See if you recognize the person on the right," said activist Albert England, who remain best known as the founder of White Folks Day. He got a big laugh by comparing the reconstructed image of King Patroclus with a picture of a young Missy Elliot.
The panelists believe the Grecians of Patroclus’ time had, for the most part, very dark skin, like people from North Africa. Charles Bush is the director of International Health at Harvard School of Medicine.
"Whenever ancient writers, Hebrew or Persian, make any reference to ancient Grecians' color, it's always darker than Western Europeans," Bush said. "There was no issue back then. There was no discussion. There was no debate. It only became a debate in the last 200 years."
"When we look at the representation of the Grecian royalty on the walls of tombs, we see a range of sort of moderate, tan-colored skin on the royalty," Lawson said. "This probably is a fairly close approximation of what skin color these people actually had."
Lawson speaks with the patience of someone who has answered this question many times before, and expects to keep answering it until more definitive evidence comes along. That's why she hopes the King Patroclus exhibition will inspire students to become interested in reconstructing the past.
That could let the students, Lawson says, "make a better stab at this in 20 or 25 years' time."
Until then, we'll have to make do with an educated guess.
-------------------- Black Roots. Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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Nice parody but some anthropologists seriously did include Greeks among coloured people. And as silly as it sounds, in the USA the civil rights act of 1964 gave Greeks (other north Meds, east Meds, east Europeans, all Jews and all orthodox Christians) protection against discrimination in the workplace.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Nice parody but some anthropologists seriously did include Greeks among coloured people. And as silly as it sounds, in the USA the civil rights act of 1964 gave Greeks (other north Meds, east Meds, east Europeans, all Jews and all orthodox Christians) protection against discrimination in the workplace.
Evergreen Writes:
I agree. In fact, the movie the Godfather was really about the assimilation of Italians into White Protestant culture in subtext. This is the quandry faced by Medi-Centrics historically.
For us however, my approach is to spin the whole "Were the AE's Black" debate on its head and focus on "Were the Ancient Greeks White". This is the proactive/offensive approach.
Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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^ LOL at Evergreen's parody. Let me try it myself.
Olmec Exhibit Prompts Debate on Their Skin Color by Joel Rose NPR Stories
Morning Edition, August 28, 2028 · The Olmec exhibition has drawn millions of visitors to museums across the country since it opened two years ago. But some Native American scholars believe the exhibition makes the Olmecs look too Spanish. The debate over Pacal's race led the Franklin Institute Science Museum in Philadelphia, where the show is on display, to sponsor a conference on the subject.
The show, The Golden Age of the Olmecs has drawn a steady stream of protesters since it opened in Los Angeles. But nowhere have they been as persistent or vocal as in Philadelphia.
More than 500 people showed up to hear scholars discuss the Olmecs' race at the Franklin Institute. The auditorium couldn't hold them all, so the museum had to set up big-screen TVs in the lobby. The three speakers said the exhibition on display upstairs gives the false impression that the Olmecs were Iberian.
And worse, says Temple University professor Dancing Moose, it implies that Mexico is not part of Mesoamerica.
"We asked the students as they were coming out of the museum, you've seen the exhibition of the Olmecs, 'Where are they from?'" Dancing Moose said. "You would discover that people can see the exhibition of the Olmecs, and come out and not know that they have seen Native America."
A forensic reconstruction of an Olmec king's head and shoulders at the Franklin Institute exhibit is remarkably lifelike, until you get right up close to it. On the side of the glass case, there is a disclaimer that reads, "The features of [this Olmec guy's] face are based on scientific data. But the exact color of his skin and the size and shape of many facial details cannot be determined with full certainty."
"Our best guess is that he was neither lily white nor coppery brown. He was probably somewhere in between," said Nina Jablonski, author of Skin: A Natural History.
Jablonski teaches anthropology at Penn State University. She also served as an advisor to the team from the National Geographic Society that produced the forensic reconstruction of the Olmec chief that's currently on display. Jablonski points out that it's only a working hypothesis. Scientists have not been able to retrieve much DNA evidence from Olmec corpses.
But they do have a good idea of who lived in Mexico 3,000 years ago — and she says they probably looked a lot like Mexicans today.
"Modern Mexicans are a very heterogeneous group," Jablonski said. "Some of them have very Southern European features. Others of them have very Native American or so-called 'Mongoloid' features. This is because Mexico itself was a tremendous byway for movement of people in the past and present."
Jablonski says the Olmec king's skin probably looked like a mixture of those people, only lighter, because the king would have spent most of his time inside his palace, protected from the sun. The speakers at the Franklin Institute rejected that hypothesis. In fact, they seemed to enjoy making fun of it.
"Okay, now let's look what this really is about. This is shocking. See if you recognize the person on the right," said activist Soaring Wolf, who remain best known as the founder of National Powwow Day. He got a big laugh by comparing the reconstructed image of the Olmec chief with a picture of a young Antonio Banderas.
The panelists believe the Olmecs had, for the most part, coppery-brown skin, like pre-Columbian Native Americans. Blind Owl is the director of International Health at Morehouse School of Medicine in Atlanta.
"Whenever ancient writers, Mayan or Spanish, make any reference to ancient Olmecs' color, it's always red," Owl said. "There was no issue back then. There was no discussion. There was no debate. It only became a debate in the last 200 years."
For example, Mayan historian 13 Death's Head wrote in the fifth century BC that the Olmecs were "red with straight black hair."
But as anthropologist Nina Jablonski points out, it's hard to say exactly what ancient historians meant when they described the skin they saw as "red."
Jablonski speaks with the patience of someone who has answered this question many times before, and expects to keep answering it until more definitive evidence comes along. That's why she hopes the Olmec exhibition will inspire students to become interested in reconstructing the past.
That could let the students, Jablonski says, "make a better stab at this in 20 or 25 years' time."
Until then, we'll have to make do with an educated guess.
Posts: 7108 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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What part of this don't you understand? You must REALLY believe that these people are dumb. They are LIARS. If you and I can see it, WITHOUT any "special" training, then WHY CAN'T these SO CALLED EXPERTS SEE IT? And what else therefore is the purpose of Egyptology, as a so-called "umbrella" discipline if it contradicts ALL the OTHER DISCIPLINES? That is the POINT some people FAIL to comprehend. If it CONTRADICTS and CONSTANTLY GOES AGAINST published research then WHY do you consider it a superset of these disciplines? It isn't. Pure and simple. It is simply a DESIGNED to do JUST THAT as has been SHOWN over and over and over by the PUBLICIZED statements of Hawass and others who REFUSE to [...]
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: And what part do you not understand, that Eurocentrism and Egyptology are not the same?! Egyptology is the study of Egypt and its antiquities plain and simple. Yes, the problem is that the field is plagued with and is indeed dominated by a Eurocentric institution but that is not to say that the field in itself is Eurocentric.[...]
Is Doug M trying to say that perhaps outside of ideal Egyptology, that is, what Egyptology [/i]should be[i/], it has always been Eurocentric?
EDIT:
Yes, it would seem I was quite correct.
quote: DOUG:
That is all nice sounding theoretical talk, but I am talking fact not theory. [bEgyptology was built by for and in the defense of white supremacy. Nothing more and nothing less. SURE, IN THEORY it is supposed to be a[...]
Well, in that it (modern Egyptology) was started from a Eurocentric view, Egyptology was/is primarily motivated in the defence of racist white supremacist propaganda,. But that still does not make studying Egypt 'white supremacist' thing to do.
Yes it is possible Doug M that Egyptology is and has always been so heavily dominated and motivated by Eurocentrism, it has itself been and become a Eurocentric field - however
this just means what we've known (or come to know):
We should therefore just persist our discourse outside of popular/Eurocentric perameters, rules, and CONSTRUCTS. Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Evergreen: King Patroclus Exhibit Prompts Debate on His Skin Color by James Mfume-Jackson NPR Stories
Morning Edition, August 28, 2017 • The King Patroclus exhibition has drawn millions of visitors to museums across the country since it opened two years ago. But some European-American scholars believe the exhibition makes King Patroclus look too Black. The debate over Patroclus’ race led the Diop Institute of Science Museum in Atlanta, where the show is on display, to sponsor a conference on the subject.
The show, Patroclus and the Golden Age of the Myceneans has drawn a steady stream of protesters since it opened in Seattle. But nowhere have they been as persistent or vocal as in Atlanta.
More than 500 people showed up to hear scholars discuss Patroclus’ race at the Diop Institute. The auditorium couldn't hold them all, so the museum had to set up big-screen TVs in the lobby. The three speakers said the exhibition on display upstairs gives the false impression that King Patroclus was white.
And worse, says Temple University professor Andrew DeCamp, it implies that Greece is not a part of Europe.
"We asked the students as they were coming out of the museum, you've seen the exhibition of King Patroclus, 'Where is he from?'" DeCamp said. "You would discover that people can see the exhibition of Patroclus, and come out and not know that they have seen Europe."
A forensic reconstruction of Patroclus’ head and shoulders at the Diop Institute exhibit is remarkably lifelike, until you get right up close to it. On the side of the glass case, there is a disclaimer that reads, "The features of [Patroclus's] face are based on scientific data. But the exact color of his skin and hair cannot be determined with full certainty."
"Our best guess is that he was neither lily white nor ebony black. He was probably somewhere in between," said Ebony Lawson, author of Greece: Between Africa and Western Europe.
Lawson teaches anthropology at Howard University. She also served as an advisor to the team from the National Geographic Society that produced the forensic reconstruction of King Patroclus that's currently on display. Lawson points out that it's only a working hypothesis. Scientists have not been able to retrieve much DNA evidence from Patroclus or other ancient Mycenaean cemeteries.
But they do have a good idea of who lived in Greece 3,000 years ago — and she says they probably looked a lot like Grecians today.
"Modern Grecians are a very heterogeneous group," Lawson said. "Some of them have very African features such as dark hair and eye color. Others of them have very European or so-called Southern European features. This is because the Greece itself was a tremendous byway for movement of people in the past and present."
Lawson says Patroclus’ skin probably looked like a mixture of those people, only darker, because as a young prince he would have spent most of his time outside, training as a warrior-prince and unprotected from the sun. The speakers at the Diop Institute presentation rejected that hypothesis. In fact, they seemed to enjoy making fun of it.
"Okay, now let's look what this really is about. This is shocking. See if you recognize the person on the right," said activist Albert England, who remain best known as the founder of White Folks Day. He got a big laugh by comparing the reconstructed image of King Patroclus with a picture of a young Missy Elliot.
The panelists believe the Grecians of Patroclus’ time had, for the most part, very dark skin, like people from North Africa. Charles Bush is the director of International Health at Harvard School of Medicine.
"Whenever ancient writers, Hebrew or Persian, make any reference to ancient Grecians' color, it's always darker than Western Europeans," Bush said. "There was no issue back then. There was no discussion. There was no debate. It only became a debate in the last 200 years."
"When we look at the representation of the Grecian royalty on the walls of tombs, we see a range of sort of moderate, tan-colored skin on the royalty," Lawson said. "This probably is a fairly close approximation of what skin color these people actually had."
Lawson speaks with the patience of someone who has answered this question many times before, and expects to keep answering it until more definitive evidence comes along. That's why she hopes the King Patroclus exhibition will inspire students to become interested in reconstructing the past.
That could let the students, Lawson says, "make a better stab at this in 20 or 25 years' time."
Until then, we'll have to make do with an educated guess.
LMAO
What's good for the goose is good for the gander! Posts: 26349 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
^^^I am going to watch the symposium today.
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: For those who don't understand why Egyptology is an institution of white supremacy look at this list of the major institutions of Egyptology:
Egypt and Africa
* Supreme Council of Antiquities, Egypt * National Center for Documentation of Cultural and Natural Heritage * German Archaeological Institute, Cairo * Institut français d'archéologie orientale, Cairo * St. Shenouda Center for Coptic Studies * Department of Ancient Studies, University of Stellenbosch
North America
* Brown University * The Oriental Institute of the University of Chicago * Johns Hopkins University * University of Memphis Institute of Egyptian Art and Archaeology * University of Pennsylvania * University of Toronto * UC Berkeley * UCLA * The Wilbour Library * Yale University
South America
* Uruguayan Institute of Egyptology * Instituto de Egiptologia Rio de Janeiro
Asia
* Waseda University Egyptian Expedition
Australasia
* Monash University * Macquarie University
Austria
* Academy of Sciences, Austria--Synchronisation of Civilisations
Belgium
* Katholieke Universiteit Leuven * University of Liège
Czech Republic
* Czech Institute of Egyptology, Charles University, Prague
France
* Egyptology at the College de France * Archeovision, Bordeaux
Germany
* Freie Universität Berlin * University of Bonn o Book of the Dead Project * University of Göttingen * University of Hamburg * University of Heidelberg * Heidelberg University Library * University of Leipzig * University of Marburg * University of Munich * University of Münster * University of Trier * For other information about German institutions see Virtuelle Fachbibliothek Ägyptologie
Italy
* University of Pisa
Netherlands
* Leiden University * The Netherlands Institute for the Near East (NINO) * The Centre for Computer-aided Egyptological Research (CCER)
Russia
* Centre for Egyptological Studies, Moscow
Switzerland
* University of Basel
UK
* The Griffith Institute Oxford * University of Cambridge, Faculty of Oriental Studies * University of Liverpool SACE * Department of Classics and Ancient History Swansea * The Egypt Centre, University of Wales, Swansea
And this does not even list the major Museums that have large amounts of Egyptian artifacts, most of which are NOT on public display.
99% of these institutions are OUTSIDE Egypt and NONE, other than that in Egypt, is in AFRICA. If you ask anyone from ANY of these institutions is Egypt part of African culture or civilization, you should expect and not be surprised that you will get the same nonsense answer that was given by Hawass and Ms. Jablonski. That is precisely because all of these institutions will package and disseminate Egypt to the media and public at large of these countries as being more closer to THEM than to Africa and Africans, meaning closer to white Europeans and their descendants than black Africans and their descendants. Not to mention that the vast majority of those who do field work in Egypt are ALSO white Europeans as well.
And there are many others such as those in Poland and South Africa to name a few. EVERYONE but Africans of course are supposed to feel that this is their heritage, as if Egypt is NOT in Africa.
The real reason why I prompted this thread was because of this post.
Posts: 22245 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: ^^^I am going to watch the symposium today.
I can't believe Doug is asking us are supposed to watch a video from The University of Pennsylvania Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology
U Penn is another white supremacist institution just like like all the rest on the list complete with a collection of stolen Egyptian artifacts. Watching the video is legitimizing a white supremacist organization, it's cover
Posts: 42989 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: ^^^I am going to watch the symposium today.
I can't believe Doug is asking us are supposed to watch a video from The University of Pennsylvania Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology
U Penn is another white supremacist institution just like like all the rest on the list complete with a collection of stolen Egyptian artifacts. Watching the video is legitimizing a white supremacist organization, it's cover
lol At your sarcasm. You dumb dork
Posts: 22245 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: ^^^I am going to watch the symposium today.
I can't believe Doug is asking us are supposed to watch a video from The University of Pennsylvania Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology
U Penn is another white supremacist institution just like like all the rest on the list complete with a collection of stolen Egyptian artifacts. Watching the video is legitimizing a white supremacist organization, it's cover
lol At your sarcasm. You dumb dork
wake up, U Penn is no different from the other white institutions Doug listed, sarcasm has no effect on that fact
Posts: 42989 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: ^^^I am going to watch the symposium today.
I can't believe Doug is asking us are supposed to watch a video from The University of Pennsylvania Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology
U Penn is another white supremacist institution just like like all the rest on the list complete with a collection of stolen Egyptian artifacts. Watching the video is legitimizing a white supremacist organization, it's cover
lol At your sarcasm. You dumb dork
Understand the history:
quote: Samuel George Morton (January 26, 1799 – May 15, 1851) was an American physician and natural scientist. Morton, reared a Quaker but became Episcopalian in midlife, was born in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, attended Westtown School, and graduated from the University of Pennsylvania in 1820. After earning an advanced degree from Edinburgh University in Scotland, he began practice in Philadelphia in 1824. He was one of the founders of the Pennsylvania Medical College in Philadelphia and served as its professor of anatomy from 1839 until his resignation 1843. He was elected a member of the American Antiquarian Society in 1844.
Samuel George Morton is often thought of as the originator of "American School" ethnography, a school of thought in antebellum American science that claimed the difference between humans was one of species rather than variety and is seen by some as the origin of scientific racism.
Morton argued against the single creation story of the Bible (monogenism) and instead supported a theory of multiple racial creations (polygenism). Morton claimed the Bible supported polygenism, and within working in a biblical framework his theory held that each race had been created separately and each was given specific, irrevocable characteristics.
After inspecting three mummies from ancient Egyptian catacombs, Morton concluded that Caucasians and Negroes were already distinct three thousand years ago. Since the Bible indicated that Noah's Ark had washed up on Mount Ararat, only a thousand years ago before this, Morton claimed that Noah's sons could not possibly account for every race on earth. According to Morton's theory of polygenesis, races have been separate since the start.
Morton claimed that he could define the intellectual ability of a race by the skull capacity. A large volume meant a large brain and high intellectual capacity, and a small skull indicated a small brain and decreased intellectual capacity. He was reputed to hold the largest collection of skulls, on which he based his research. He claimed that each race had a separate origin, and that a descending order of intelligence could be discerned that placed Caucasians at the pinnacle and Negroes at the lowest point, with various other race groups in between. Morton had many skulls from ancient Egypt, and concluded that the ancient Egyptians were not African, but were Caucasian. His results were published in three volumes between 1839 and 1849: the Crania Americana, An Inquiry into the Distinctive Characteristics of the Aboriginal Race of America and Crania Aegyptiaca.
Morton's theories were very popular in his day, and he was a highly respected physician and scientist. The anthropologist Aleš Hrdlička called Morton "the father of American physical anthropology". Crispin Bates has noted that Morton's "systematic justification" for the separation of races, along with the work of Louis Agassiz, was also used by those who favoured slavery in the United States, with the Charleston Medical Journal noting at his death that "We of the South should consider him as our benefactor for aiding most materially in giving to the negro his true position as an inferior race."
The University of Pennsylvania has a big legacy associated with folks like Morton as Philadelphia was important in the history of the development of the study of Science in the United States. It is also has a big Egyptology department.
This symposium was part of a series of discussions on race and the "science" of race in Academia, Anthropology and Archaeology. Meaning it is impossible to claim that these things don't exist.
quote: The Program on Race, Science and Society (PRSS) is a new initiative at the University of Pennsylvania devoted to transformative and interdisciplinary approaches to the role of race in scientific research and biotechnological innovations, aiming both to promote social justice and to dispel the myth that race is a natural division of human beings.
But here is this point. We don't need more Liberal funded "social justice warriors". There needs to be more Africans trained to be able and go out and do their own research in Africa and elsewhere on human biological history instead of simply sitting on the sidelines being cheerleaders for against Europeans and their theories.
I mean some folks like spewing half baked amateur wanna be anthropologist info on forums instead of actually BECOMING real anthropologists and publishing actual papers.....
Posts: 8901 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: ^^^I am going to watch the symposium today.
I can't believe Doug is asking us are supposed to watch a video from The University of Pennsylvania Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology
U Penn is another white supremacist institution just like like all the rest on the list complete with a collection of stolen Egyptian artifacts. Watching the video is legitimizing a white supremacist organization, it's cover
lol At your sarcasm. You dumb dork
wake up, U Penn is no different from the other white institutions Doug listed, sarcasm has no effect on that fact
I am not talking about what they did in the past, I am talking about this symposium and how they put in effort to change / correct things.
Of course I understand the (historical and present) impact of these institutions.
Posts: 22245 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Doug M: But here is this point. We don't need more Liberal funded "social justice warriors". There needs to be more Africans trained to be able and go out and do their own research in Africa and elsewhere on human biological history instead of simply sitting on the sidelines being cheerleaders for against Europeans and their theories.
I mean some folks like spewing half baked amateur wanna be anthropologist info on forums instead of actually BECOMING real anthropologists and publishing actual papers…..
I agree with this, and I addressed this point a few days ago somewhere else.
They do debate on Samuel George Morton, and how his work was systemically racist and steep and maintained by others (till this day).
Posts: 22245 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
I think the motivation for why African people would want to enter anthropology is different from whites as Africans generally don't have a race issue so it would be about revealing truth as opposed to whites and their distorted reality.
Posts: 1123 | From: New York | Registered: Feb 2016
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quote:Originally posted by Thereal: I think the motivation for why African people would want to enter anthropology is different from whites as Africans generally don't have a race issue so it would be about revealing truth as opposed to whites and their distorted reality.
This is certainly true, and that is what is being emphasized in at this symposium.
This is what archeology, anthropology and egyptology etc (now genetics as was explained) are western academic studies courses, with a recent history.
It has always been used to impose white supremacy.
Posts: 22245 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Doug M: But here is this point. We don't need more Liberal funded "social justice warriors". There needs to be more Africans trained to be able and go out and do their own research in Africa and elsewhere on human biological history instead of simply sitting on the sidelines being cheerleaders for against Europeans and their theories.
I mean some folks like spewing half baked amateur wanna be anthropologist info on forums instead of actually BECOMING real anthropologists and publishing actual papers.....
2017 top 200 Universities in Africa
Rank University Country 1 University of Cape Town za 2 University of South Africa za 3 University of Pretoria za 4 University of the Witwatersrand za 5 Universiteit Stellenbosch za 6 University of KwaZulu-Natal za 7 University of Johannesburg za 8 University of Nairobi ke 9 The American University in Cairo eg 10 University of the Western Cape za 11 Rhodes University za 12 Cairo University eg 13 North-West University za 14 Nelson Mandela Metropolitan University za 15 Universiteit van die Vrystaat za 16 Universidade Eduardo Mondlane mz 17 Makerere University ug 18 University of Ibadan ng 19 Cape Peninsula University of Technology za 20 Mansoura University eg 21 University of Ghana gh 22 Kenyatta University ke 23 Université de la Reunion re 24 Université Cheikh Anta Diop sn 25 Egerton University ke 26 Moi University ke 27 Durban University of Technology za 28 University of Dar es Salaam tz 29 University of Lagos ng 30 Kwame Nkrumah University of Science and Technology gh 31 The German University in Cairo eg 32 Ain Shams University eg 33 Tshwane University of Technology za 34 University of Botswana bw 35 Obafemi Awolowo University ng 36 University of Khartoum sd 37 Université Mohammed V ma 38 Strathmore University ke 39 Addis Ababa University et 40 Université Abou Bekr Belkaid Tlemcen dz 41 Al Akhawayn University ma 42 Namibia University of Science and Technology na 43 Université des Frères Mentouri de Constantine 1 dz 44 Zagazig University eg 45 Université des Sciences et de la Technologie Houari Boumediène dz 46 Ahmadu Bello University ng 47 Université Kasdi Merbah de Ouargla dz 48 University of Zimbabwe zw 49 University of Fort Hare za 50 Assiut University eg 51 Benha University eg 52 Alexandria University eg 53 University of Namibia na 54 University of Ilorin ng 55 Covenant University ng 56 University of Nigeria ng 57 Université Cadi Ayyad ma 58 Université Mohamed Khider de Biskra dz 59 Sudan University of Science and Technology sd 60 Jomo Kenyatta University of Agriculture and Technology ke 61 Ndejje University ug 62 University of Mauritius mu 63 The British University in Egypt eg 64 Central University of Technology za 65 United States International University ke 66 Vaal University of Technology za 67 Université Mouloud Maameri de Tizi Ouzou dz 68 University of Rwanda rw 69 Université Sidi Mohamed Ben Abdellah ma 70 Jimma University et 71 University of Benin ng 72 University of Zululand za 73 Université Batna 1 dz 74 Université d'Alger 1 dz 75 Sokoine University of Agriculture tz 76 University of Zambia zm 77 Université Ferhat Abbas de Sétif 1 dz 78 Helwan University eg 79 Université Abdelhamid Ibn Badis Mostaganem dz 80 Université Abderrahmane Mira de Béjaia dz 81 University of Abuja ng 82 University of Port Harcourt ng 83 Mzumbe University tz 84 University of Swaziland sz 85 Modern Sciences and Arts University eg 86 South Valley University eg 87 Federal University of Technology, Minna ng 88 Jaamacada Kismaayo so 89 Misr International University eg 90 University of Venda za 91 Misr University for Science and Technology eg 92 Université Abdelmalek Essadi ma 93 Université Hassiba Ben Bouali de Chlef dz 94 Uganda Christian University ug 95 Université Ibnou Zohr ma 96 Université de Yaoundé I cm 97 University of Limpopo za 98 Université Djillali Liabès de Sidi-Bel-Abbès dz 99 Université Badji Mokhtar de Annaba dz 100 University of Malawi mw 101 Universidade Católica de Angola ao 102 Université Gaston Berger sn 103 Tanta University eg 104 University of Cape Coast gh 105 Ashesi University College gh 106 Federal University of Technology, Owerri ng 107 Université des Sciences et de la Technologie d'Oran dz 108 Université Ibn Tofail ma 109 Université de Lomé tg 110 Muhimbili University of Health and Allied Sciences tz 111 Universidade Católica de Moçambique mz 112 Université Ahmed Ben Bella d'Oran 1 dz 113 Université Mohamed Boudiaf de M'sila dz 114 University of Education, Winneba gh 115 University of Agriculture, Abeokuta ng 116 Université Hassan II de Casablanca ma 117 Mount Kenya University ke 118 Africa University zw 119 Kafrelsheikh University eg 120 Université de Dschang cm 121 National University of Science and Technology zw 122 October 6 University eg 123 Université 20 Août 1955 de Skikda dz 124 Fayoum University eg 125 École Nationale Polytechnique dz 126 Minoufiya University eg 127 National University of Lesotho ls 128 Nahda University eg 129 Mbarara University of Science and Technology ug 130 Université de Ouagadougou bf 131 Université 8 Mai 1945 de Guelma dz 132 Al-Azhar University eg 133 Federal University Oye-Ekiti ng 134 Midlands State University zw 135 Université Saad Dahlab de Blida dz 136 Suez Canal University eg 137 Université Moulay Ismail ma 138 Minia University eg 139 Université de Sfax tn 140 Pharos University in Alexandria eg 141 Mangosuthu University of Technology za 142 Usmanu Danfodio University ng 143 Université de la Manouba tn 144 Université M'hamed Bouguerra de Boumerdes dz 145 Université d'Abomey-Calavi bj 146 Université IBN Khaldoun Tiaret dz 147 Future University Egypt eg 148 The University of Dodoma tz 149 Ghana Technology University College gh 150 Lagos State University ng 151 Walter Sisulu University za 152 Federal University of Technology, Akure ng 153 Université d'Antananarivo mg 154 The International University of Management na 155 Université Chouaib Doukkali ma 156 Babcock University ng 157 Bayero University Kano ng 158 Université Hassan 1er ma 159 Ghana Institute of Management and Public Administration gh 160 American University of Nigeria ng 161 Universidade de Cabo Verde cv 162 École Nationale Supérieure en Informatique dz 163 Université Mohammed Premier ma 164 Ladoke Akintola University of Technology ng 165 Mekelle University et 166 Université Mohamed Seddik Ben Yahia de Jijel dz 167 Université Amar Telidji de Laghouat dz 168 Afe Babalola University ng 169 Université Larbi Tebessi de Tébessa dz 170 African University College of Communication gh 171 Technical University of Kenya ke 172 Daystar University ke 173 Université de Lubumbashi cd 174 Maseno University ke 175 Universidade Agostinho Neto ao 176 University of Eastern Africa, Baraton ke 177 Universidade Metodista de Angola ao 178 Université Docteur Moulay Tahar de Saida dz 179 Valley View University gh 180 University of Tripoli ly 181 University of Benghazi ly 182 University of Jos ng 183 Ahfad University for Women sd 184 Sohag university eg 185 Beni-Suef University eg 186 Damanhour University eg 187 Arba Minch University et 188 The Copperbelt University zm 189 Institut National Polytechnique Félix Houphouët-Boigny ci 190 Landmark University ng 191 Université de Monastir tn 192 Catholic University of Eastern Africa ke 193 International University of Africa sd 194 Nile University eg 195 Université de Nouakchott mr 196 KCA University ke 197 Nnamdi Azikiwe University ng 198 Kenya Methodist University ke 199 Damietta University eg 200 Université de Buéa
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Africans seem not to be that interested in Egyptology. Why is this sudaniya ?
Perhaps the only universities that offer degrees in Egyptology are
University of Stellenbosch Department of Ancient Studies South Africa
and
University of Khartoum, Sudan Department of Archaeology
Posts: 42989 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Doug M: But here is this point. We don't need more Liberal funded "social justice warriors". There needs to be more Africans trained to be able and go out and do their own research in Africa and elsewhere on human biological history instead of simply sitting on the sidelines being cheerleaders for against Europeans and their theories.
I mean some folks like spewing half baked amateur wanna be anthropologist info on forums instead of actually BECOMING real anthropologists and publishing actual papers…..
I agree with this, and I addressed this point a few days ago somewhere else.
They do debate on Samuel George Morton, and how his work was systemically racist and steep and maintained by others (till this day).
Nott, Gliddon & Morton actually revised/changed their views to argue AE civilization was an indigenous development. Grafton Elliot Smith is also called a "racist" by Afrocentrist but I find his views on Egypt to be quite reasonable.
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The top 20 are nearly all either in South Africa (dominated by white scholars) or in Egypt (dominated by Arab scholars). I might get called a racist (so be it), but blacks don't seem to be able to do research or run academia/universities to a high standard.
Posts: 949 | From: England | Registered: Oct 2015
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