posted
Y-chromosome diversity characterizes the Gulf of Oman Alicia M Cadenas1, Lev A Zhivotovsky2, Luca L Cavalli-Sforza3, Peter A Underhill3 and Rene J Herrera1
1Department of Biological Sciences, Florida International University, Miami, FL, USA 2N. I. Vavilov Institute of General Genetics, Russian Academy of Sciences, Moscow, Russia 3Department of Genetics, Stanford University, Stanford, CA, USA Correspondence: Dr RJ Herrera, Department of Biological Sciences, Florida International University, University Park, OE 304, Miami, FL 33199 USA. Tel: +1 305 348 1258; Fax: +1 305 348 1259; E-mail: herrerar@fiu.edu
Received 20 February 2007; Revised 30 August 2007; Accepted 11 September 2007; Published online 10 October 2007.
Abstract Arabia has served as a strategic crossroads for human disseminations, providing a natural connection between the distant populations of China and India in the east to the western civilizations along the Mediterranean. To explore this region's critical role in the migratory episodes leaving Africa to Eurasia and back, high-resolution Y-chromosome analysis of males from the United Arab Emirates (164), Qatar (72) and Yemen (62) was performed. The role of the Levant in the Neolithic dispersal of the E3b1-M35 sublineages is supported by the data, and the distribution and STR-based analyses of J1-M267 representatives points to their spread from the north, most likely during the Neolithic. With the exception of Yemen, southern Arabia, South Iran and South Pakistan display high diversity in their Y-haplogroup substructure possibly a result of gene flow along the coastal crescent-shaped corridor of the Gulf of Oman facilitating human dispersals. Elevated rates of consanguinity may have had an impact in Yemen and Qatar, which experience significant heterozygote deficiencies at various hypervariable autosomal STR loci.
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"Distribution of E3b1-M35 derivatives The presence of signature sub-Saharan African mtDNA lineages in the south Arabian populations has been attributed to various waves of gene flow to the region, including that associated with the East African slave trade. This is apparent from the exact mtDNA haplotype matches between lineages in Yemen and East Africa, including those associated with the Bantu expansion.20 The presence of the E3a-M2 lineage in Oman (7.4%),4 Yemen (3.2%), UAE (5.5%) and Qatar (2.8%) could lead to the oversimplified conclusion that these chromosomes are also a contribution from the East African slave trade. Mitochondrial DNA analysis of the Yemen Hadramawt indicates recent gene flow (2500 yBP) from Africa to the Arab populations in part through the slave trade, yet an ancient arrival from East Africa is responsible for the Y-chromosome haplotypes."
On J1-M267:
"A higher observed STR diversity of this clade among Europeans and Ethiopians in comparison to populations of North Africa points to its arrival to Ethiopia and Europe during Neolithic times with a more recent appearance in the latter.58 Semino et al58 describe a YCAIIa22-YCAIIb22 motif in the North African (>90%) and Middle Eastern (>70%) J1-M267 representatives that is less frequent in Ethiopia and Europe, postulating that the dispersal of the M267-YCAIIa22-YCAIIb22 clade occurred during the Arab expansion in the seventh century A.D."
Yom where are you? Need your help with this, this study seems tricky, especially on this:
"On the other hand, Cruciani et al have postulated that the E3b1c-M123 clade may have originated in the Near East, as its presence in East Africa is restricted to Ethiopia (11.2%)."
Seems odd considering the higher frequency of J1-M267 in Ethiopia
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posted
I still have not got all of this straightened out, but I thought, from reading through here, that E3b originated in East Africa and spread into the Levant along with the Neolithic and agriculture, and from the Levant the Neolithic spread to Europe. Is the E3b1c-M123 clade a derivative of E3b that developed in situ in the Levant, and then spread to Ethiopia and Europe? But then it would not be responsible for the spread of the Neolithic, would it? Did agriculture spread from Africa through the Levant to Europe, or directly from Africa to Europe? And I take it that the E3b bearers in the Levant would have been phenotypically African; would those who went into Europe have been so also? Thanks to anyone who helps me clarify all this.
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quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Why do you always make us ask for the url instead of just giving it to us? It's not like the world knows where your group is.
quote:Originally posted by Mackandal: The study is in my yahoo group
quote:Originally posted by Neith-Athena: I still have not got all of this straightened out, but I thought, from reading through here, that E3b originated in East Africa and spread into the Levant along with the Neolithic and agriculture, and from the Levant the Neolithic spread to Europe. Is the E3b1c-M123 clade a derivative of E3b that developed in situ in the Levant, and then spread to Ethiopia and Europe? But then it would not be responsible for the spread of the Neolithic, would it?
The picture is complex and made moreso by recent changes some geneticists have made in haplotype labeling.
Bascically E3b underived is a 25~ thousand year old haplotype found primarily from Ethiopia to regions south of same.
What is still not well enough understood is that this lineage is common throughout east-south Africa. To this day it makes up as much as 10 percent of lineages in South African Bantu, 30 percent of South African Khoisan and 40 percent among some Bantu, Nilo Saharan and Cushitic groups in Tanzania.
E3b1 derives from E3b, either in the horn of Africa, or, as recently suggested by some geneticists, in the Upper Nile Valley.
This lineage spread to the Levant by the mesolithic and is -possibly- associated with Natufian 1st farmers.
Natuf is a town in modern Palestine/Israel where the earliest known farming was discovered.
There is very interesting article from New York times from that refers to this discovery as: "NEGRO CANNIBAL" skeletan found in Isreal.
This is telling because it is before the great historical importance of these civilisation pioneering peoples were known.
Now: E3b1 is one of the most heavily studied haplotypes in population genetics.
Partly as a result of this, there is relative fine detailed information about it.
E3b1 is broken down into clusters.
The clusters help to tell us -when- E3b1 occured in a given population.
In Europe, the main cluster of E3b1 is alpha.
Alpha cluster has a neolithic datation, and is most commonly found in Greece.
This is taken as evidence by many of the introduction of the 'neolithic' [agricultural precursor to civilisation] in Europe.
It is also post-facto support for anthropological work done in Neolithic Greece.
Anthropologist Larry Angel theorized based on skeletal study done in the 70's on the migration of populations from Nubia to Greece during the Neolithic.
So you can see, there are many lines of evidence in support of a similar conclusion.
E3b2 also descends from E3b. It either diverged from E3b in Ethiopia, or in the Egpypt, perhaps as recent as 7000 years ago. It spread from NorthEast Africa to NorthWest Africa and is common among Berber speakers.
E3b3 also descends from E3b. It either originates in Ethiopia and spread to Arabia from there..... or, E3b underived, spread to Southern Arabia, diverged to E3b3, and then spread back into Ethiopia.
The biggest problem with the later possiblity is the lack of E3b in Southern Arabia from whence E3b3 would possibly have derived.
East Africa is the only place in the world that has E3b, and all it's sons, E3b1 E3b2 and E3b3.
E3b, E3b1 and E3b2 are universally accepted by geneticists as AFrican lineages.
E3b3 is still in dispute.
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posted
Wherever E3b3 subclade has arisen, there is no way around the fact that these would have been people whose immediate precursors were Africans. There is rare to no YAP+ and PN2 transition lineages in "SW Asa", other than the African derivatives that made their way there.
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quote:Originally posted by Mystery Solver: Wherever E3b3 subclade has arisen, there is no way around the fact that these would have been people whose immediate precursors were Africans. There is rare to no YAP+ and PN2 transition lineages in "SW Asa", other than the African derivatives that made their way there.
the study says this on E3b1c-M123[E3b3]:
"The E3b1-M35 sub-haplogroups, M123 and M78, are believed to have spread from East Africa to North Africa and later expanded eastward through the Levantine corridor and westward to northwestern Africa. Although E3b1a-M78 data suggest that this dispersal occurred in both directions,(4,34,47) E3b1c-M123 disseminated primarily to the east.(4)"
They then refer back to Cruciani et al saying that E3b1c-M123 originated in the Near East and came back into Africa since it is only found in Ethiopia. Why can't Ethiopia be the place of its origin?
Posts: 2598 | From: Vicksburg | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Why can't Ethiopia be the place of its origin?
It can be.
The above theory is proposed by some geneticsts:
Paleoanthropological evidence indicates that both the Levantine corridor and the Horn of Africa served, repeatedly, as migratory corridors between Africa and Eurasia.
The extant North African and Middle Eastern distribution (Underhill et al. 2001b; Cruciani et al. 2002; present study) of these lineages suggests that both routes are associated with the dissemination of E3b1-M78.
However, the E3b3-M123 chromosomes may have spread predominantly toward the east, whereas E3b2-M81, dispersed mainly to the west.
posted
^ Very interesting. And good work Rasol and others for clarifying E3b3 origins.
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quote:Originally posted by Mystery Solver: Wherever E3b3 subclade has arisen, there is no way around the fact that these would have been people whose immediate precursors were Africans. There is rare to no YAP+ and PN2 transition lineages in "SW Asa", other than the African derivatives that made their way there.
the study says this on E3b1c-M123[E3b3]:
"The E3b1-M35 sub-haplogroups, M123 and M78, are believed to have spread from East Africa to North Africa and later expanded eastward through the Levantine corridor and westward to northwestern Africa. Although E3b1a-M78 data suggest that this dispersal occurred in both directions,(4,34,47) E3b1c-M123 disseminated primarily to the east.(4)"
They then refer back to Cruciani et al saying that E3b1c-M123 originated in the Near East and came back into Africa since it is only found in Ethiopia. Why can't Ethiopia be the place of its origin?
This is an easy question to answer. The Greeco-Roman literature makes it clear that Kushites formerly expanded from Africa into Asia.
If you accept an African origin for this gene you must accept the fact that Africans expanded into Europe quite recently c. 6kya, and all this crap about the founders of the known ancient civilizations, beginnig with Hume, being "white or near white", is nothing more than a big lie used to white wash history.
posted
One thing that gets my interest is how of all the haplogroups talked about, E3b1-M78 has to hae different "clusters" yet no other haplogroup has ever been described this way. Is it because it appears in Europe in substantial frequencies but has a sub-saharan East African origin that geneticists feel a need to create "clusters" to try to keep Europe pure? I sense something foul here.
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quote:Originally posted by Mackandal: One thing that gets my interest is how of all the haplogroups talked about, E3b1-M78 has to hae different "clusters" yet no other haplogroup has ever been described this way. Is it because it appears in Europe in substantial frequencies but has a sub-saharan East African origin that geneticists feel a need to create "clusters" to try to keep Europe pure? I sense something foul here.
This is probably the case. Yet we can't entirely blame the geneticists, they are using anthroplogical and linguistic data that may be inaccurate.
For example, some linguists have tried to associate the Indo-Europeans with farming. This has no foundation given the nomadic background of Indo-European speakers who traditionally, e.g., Greeks made their slaves preform agricultural activities.
It will be hard to ever have a realistic and true history because contemporary Europeans following Hume, they believe Africans/Blacks do not have a ancient history (except the West African Kingdoms, which they claim were inspired by the Arabs). This myth makes it appear that Africans have no agency in their own historical experiences.
As a result, they use a positivist view of history, i.e., the people inhabiting an area today have always been the inhabitants of that particular area. A good example is Hawass, who maintains the ancient Egyptians were not African.
As we know this view is false but this is how science operates. The historical record may record a different group inhabiting an area in the past, e.g., in Iran formerly the Elamites, but now Palavi/Iranians, yet, a geneticist's will take the blood of present-day inhabitants and then claim that the new inhabitants of an area represent the former. This may not be the case because many of the former inhabitants may have been killed-off. Go figure....
quote:For example, some linguists have tried to associate the Indo-Europeans with farming. This has no foundation given the nomadic background of Indo-European speakers who traditionally, e.g., Greeks made their slaves preform agricultural activities.
Maybe I am wrong, but I thought Greek farmers were a mixture of freemen and slaves.
There may have been as many, if not more, slaves than free people in ancient Greece. It is difficult for historians to determine exactly how many slaves there were during these times, because many did not appear any different from the poorer Greek citizens.Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
^ That was exactly the case with 'Classical' Greece.
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: This is probably the case. Yet we can't entirely blame the geneticists, they are using anthroplogical and linguistic data that may be inaccurate.
Is that even true? I thought geneticists label other haplogroups into clusters as well like mitochondrial HV and M(?)
quote:For example, some linguists have tried to associate the Indo-Europeans with farming. This has no foundation given the nomadic background of Indo-European speakers who traditionally, e.g., Greeks made their slaves preform agricultural activities.
I assume you speak of the Anatolian hypothesis proposed by Colin Renfrew. Unfortunately the only subfamilies that support his theory in some way are Anatolian and Greek, and we all know that pre-I-E Greeks and pre-I-E Anatolians already share common history beginning with the Neolithic which could explain similar agricutural words. Greater linguistic details from other subfamilies and groups don't offer the same support. And the distribution of languages and everything else seems to better correlate with the Kurgan hypothesis.
quote:It will be hard to ever have a realistic and true history because contemporary Europeans following Hume, they believe Africans/Blacks do not have a ancient history (except the West African Kingdoms, which they claim were inspired by the Arabs). This myth makes it appear that Africans have no agency in their own historical experiences.
Of course most contemporary white historians no longer bother with such a ridiculous notion since archaeology clearly attests to the antiquity of civilizations in West Africa, and this "inspiration from Arabs" is even more ludicrous since Arabs were pastoral nomads and NOT urbanized agriculturalists!
quote:As a result, they use a positivist view of history, i.e., the people inhabiting an area today have always been the inhabitants of that particular area. A good example is Hawass, who maintains the ancient Egyptians were not African.
You mean, the silly racists of course.
quote:As we know this view is false but this is how science operates. The historical record may record a different group inhabiting an area in the past, e.g., in Iran formerly the Elamites, but now Palavi/Iranians, yet, a geneticist's will take the blood of present-day inhabitants and then claim that the new inhabitants of an area represent the former. This may not be the case because many of the former inhabitants may have been killed-off. Go figure....
Or rather that they were absorbed, since the historical record they left as well as archaeological showed no evidence whatsoever of any genocide.
Although I hope Winters that you still believe Marc's rubbish about whites being late-comers into Europe while black were the indigenous people! Posts: 26322 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Neith-Athena: I still have not got all of this straightened out, but I thought, from reading through here, that E3b originated in East Africa and spread into the Levant along with the Neolithic and agriculture, and from the Levant the Neolithic spread to Europe. Is the E3b1c-M123 clade a derivative of E3b that developed in situ in the Levant, and then spread to Ethiopia and Europe? But then it would not be responsible for the spread of the Neolithic, would it?
The picture is complex and made moreso by recent changes some geneticists have made in haplotype labeling.
Bascically E3b underived is a 25~ thousand year old haplotype found primarily from Ethiopia to regions south of same.
What is still not well enough understood is that this lineage is common throughout east-south Africa. To this day it makes up as much as 10 percent of lineages in South African Bantu, 30 percent of South African Khoisan and 40 percent among some Bantu, Nilo Saharan and Cushitic groups in Tanzania.
E3b1 derives from E3b, either in the horn of Africa, or, as recently suggested by some geneticists, in the Upper Nile Valley.
This lineage spread to the Levant by the mesolithic and is -possibly- associated with Natufian 1st farmers.
Natuf is a town in modern Palestine/Israel where the earliest known farming was discovered.
There is very interesting article from New York times from that refers to this discovery as: "NEGRO CANNIBAL" skeletan found in Isreal.
This is telling because it is before the great historical importance of these civilisation pioneering peoples were known.
Now: E3b1 is one of the most heavily studied haplotypes in population genetics.
Partly as a result of this, there is relative fine detailed information about it.
E3b1 is broken down into clusters.
The clusters help to tell us -when- E3b1 occured in a given population.
In Europe, the main cluster of E3b1 is alpha.
Alpha cluster has a neolithic datation, and is most commonly found in Greece.
This is taken as evidence by many of the introduction of the 'neolithic' [agricultural precursor to civilisation] in Europe.
It is also post-facto support for anthropological work done in Neolithic Greece.
Anthropologist Larry Angel theorized based on skeletal study done in the 70's on the migration of populations from Nubia to Greece during the Neolithic.
So you can see, there are many lines of evidence in support of a similar conclusion.
E3b2 also descends from E3b. It either diverged from E3b in Ethiopia, or in the Egpypt, perhaps as recent as 7000 years ago. It spread from NorthEast Africa to NorthWest Africa and is common among Berber speakers.
E3b3 also descends from E3b. It either originates in Ethiopia and spread to Arabia from there..... or, E3b underived, spread to Southern Arabia, diverged to E3b3, and then spread back into Ethiopia.
The biggest problem with the later possiblity is the lack of E3b in Southern Arabia from whence E3b3 would possibly have derived.
East Africa is the only place in the world that has E3b, and all it's sons, E3b1 E3b2 and E3b3.
E3b, E3b1 and E3b2 are universally accepted by geneticists as AFrican lineages.
E3b3 is still in dispute.
Thank you. So would this show that in part Africans civilized Southwest Asians and not the other way around, that instead of looking for non-African influences on early African civilizations, there is more evidence for African influence on the so-called "cradle of civilization" (Mesopotamia)? Also, what time period would the Natufians be, and is it known what language they spoke? I take it that Afrisan spread into southwest Asia later?
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quote:So would this show that in part Africans civilized Southwest Asians and not the other way around.
Civilisation is process, and not and event. It is also a shared human characteristic and not a property of single ethnic groups demically diffused to others.
This is the real lesson to be learned.
The need to learn this lesson occurs precisely because ws.t propaganda discourse attempts to mark out civilisation as and invention belonging to the "west".
I call this historical tribalism.
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posted
Fine then, quite right. All human groups have the capacity to create “civilization.” The other day I was in a Latin class and some idiot professor said that the Greeks invented philosophy. It depends on how you want to define philosophy, but the human capacity for trying to make sense of the world seems like innate to everyone, and is a pretty basic definition of philosophy.
I shall rephrase it and say that Africans introduced the Neolithic revolution that was the impetus for civilization in the "Near East," and therefore contributed to the formation of the so-called "cradle of civilization" in Euro-American discourse. What I mean is that I do not think it proper for Europeans to appropriate the "Near East" for themselves just because some of the peoples there happened to be light-skinned, when there was an African contribution, not just in languages but also in agriculture.
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posted
^ But that is the very premise and fallacy of 'race' to begin with-- false ethnic or ethnological constructs like skin color and 'features' used to denote a physical relationship or kinship with populations. Thus Western discourse covertly disseminates ideas of a "caucasoid" civilization or world civilization being invented by "caucasoids".
quote:Originally posted by rasol: Civilisation is process, and not and event. It is also a shared human characteristic and not a property of single ethnic groups demically diffused to others.
This is the real lesson to be learned.
The need to learn this lesson occurs precisely because ws.t propaganda discourse attempts to mark out civilisation as and invention belonging to the "west".
I call this historical tribalism.
Yes, this couldn't be more true.
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posted
Fine then, but in what context can one place civilizations in Mesopotamia/ the "Near East" (not Egypt, which is African), in terms of the populations that contributed to their rise and evolution? This may sound obtuse, but I am trying to find more information on the origins of civilization in both the Nile Valley and the "Near East" (as independent entities, not influencing each other necessarily as in conquering). Am I making this clear? Are there links between "Near Eastern" and Nile Valley African prehistory?
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posted
^ Other than the introduction of mircroliths into the Levant from Egypt which spurred the start of the Neolithic, the only connection there really is between Egypt and Mesopotamia is economic via trade. We have evidence of caravan routes from Egypt to Mesopotamia since the late predynastic.
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"A higher observed STR diversity of this clade among Europeans and Ethiopians in comparison to populations of North Africa points to its arrival to Ethiopia and Europe during Neolithic times with a more recent appearance in the latter.
Evergreen Writes:
I find the entire theory that a neolithic spread took place from the Levant into the Arabian Penninsula and across into Ethiopia suspect. The cultural data points to movements in the opposite direction during the period in question. We see C-Group pottery for example moving INTO Yemen from Africa during the EBA.
Modern leucoderm Yemeni are likely the Baloch inbreed descendents of Sassanid soldiers who defeated the Aksumites. This would explain the low diversity of Y Chromosomes among this group. This may also explain the hooked nose.
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I find the entire theory that a neolithic spread took place from the Levant into the Arabian Penninsula and across into Ethiopia suspect. The cultural data points to movements in the opposite direction during the period in question. We see C-Group pottery for example moving INTO Yemen from Africa during the EBA.
Modern leucoderm Yemeni are likely the Baloch inbreed descendents of Sassanid soldiers who defeated the Aksumites. This would explain the low diversity of Y Chromosomes among this group. This may also explain the hooked nose.
Evergreen Posts:
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Vahriz was a Deylamite spahbod (commander) in the service of the Sassanid Empire of Persia (Iran). He was the head of a small expeditionary force of low ranking Azatan (Azadan) nobility numbering around 700 sent by Khosrau I to Yemen to help repel the invading Ethiopians of Axum. Vahriz was successful in expelling the invading Ethiopians from Yemen. He then resided there as the Persian governor of Yemen. Yemen became a vassal state of the Sassanids until the arrival of Islam.
Evergreen Posts:
Y-chromosome diversity characterizes the Gulf of Oman
"A series of recent demographic events may offer an explanation for the Y-haplogroup distribution observed in Yemen. The J1-M267 Y-pattern in particular may have arisen as a result of a founder effect followed by genetic drift."
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When they discuss the movement **INTO** east Africa during the Neolithic they fail to mention that state-level development began in the Horn of Africa prior to Yemen.
Evergreen Posts:
The development of urbanism in the northern Horn of Africa in ancient and medieval times By RODOLFO FATTOVICH
"By the mid-third millennium BC, the descendants of this population settled in the Gash delta in the western lowlands (the ‘Gash Group’, c. 2700–1500/1400 BC). They were a pastoral people, who spread through the lowland areas from the Gash river to the Red Sea hill and the coast. In the second millennium BC they practiced the cultivation of barley. The ‘Gash Group’ people were included in a complex network of contacts and exchanges stretching from Egypt and Nubia to the Upper Nile, the Horn of Africa and southern Arabia. The evidence of administrative devices (impressed clay seals, tokens and clay sealings) at the major site, Mahal Teglinos, Kassala, and the clearly distinguished hierarchy in settlement size and wealth point to the rise of a complex society in the lowlands at this time (Fig. 4; Fattovich, Marks & Ali 1984; Marks & Sadr 1988; Fattovich, Sadr & Vitagliano 1988–89; Fattovich 1990b; Fattovich 1991a; Fattovich 1991b; Sadr 1991)."
A sedentary people, apparently with Afro-Arabian cultural traditions, was settled on the plateau around Asmara (Eritrea) in the late second millennium BC (the ‘Ona Group A’ with red pottery, c. 1500–1000 BC). They were in contact with the Jebel Mokram people of the western lowlands and the coastal ones along the Red Sea. Some finds from ‘Ona Group A’ sites suggest that this population was directly in contact with Egypt through the Red Sea maritime route. The same evidence, recording some chiefs of Punt, might suggest that a complex society arose on the eastern plateau in the mid-second millennium BC (Fig. 5; Tringali 1979; Tringali 1981; Fattovich 1988; Fattovich 1993). Peoples with similar pottery were living along the Eritrean and south Arabian coast of the Red Sea and the Gulf of Aden in the mid-second millennium BC (the ‘Tihama Cultural Complex’, c. 1500–1200 BC). Evidence for this has been recorded at Adulis near the Gulf of Zula in Eritrea, Sihi in the Saudi Tihama, Wadi Urq’ in the Yemeni Tihama, and Subr near Aden. The pottery from these sites shows some similarities to that from the Kerma and ‘C-Group’ of the middle Nile valley. The lithic industry is similar to that of the ‘Gash Group’ at Kassala, pointing to a possible early influence from the African hinterland (Fig. 5; Paribeni 1907; Doe 1963, Doe 1971; Zarins, Al-Jawarad Murad & Al-Yish 1981; Zarins & Al-Badr 1986; Tosi 1986; Tosi 1987). Comparable pottery occurs in the lower strata at Matara on the eastern Tigrean plateau, suggesting that this region too was included in the area of cultural influence of the Tihama complex (see Anfray 1966; Fattovich 1980)."
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quote:Originally posted by Evergreen: Evergreen Posts:
Sassanian Elite Cavalry AD 224-642 By Kaveh Farrokh
"...the Azadan were descendents of the original Aryan clans that had settled in the Near East since the times of the Medes or earlier."
Is it farfetched to say that most of Yemen was inhabitaded by Mehri type of people before this migration of "Azadan" from the Sassanid period?
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quote:Originally posted by Evergreen: Evergreen Posts:
Sassanian Elite Cavalry AD 224-642 By Kaveh Farrokh
"...the Azadan were descendents of the original Aryan clans that had settled in the Near East since the times of the Medes or earlier."
Is it farfetched to say that most of Yemen was inhabitaded by Mehri type of people before this migration of "Azadan" from the Sassanid period?
Evergreen Writes:
I would say that the archaeological evidence, the genetic evidence and the general ecology of Yemen and Western Saudi Arabia would indicate strong phenetic affinities between the people on African side of the Red Sea and the Arabian side.
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posted
^^ Yes i agree, horn africa and southern arabia have the same hot climate, it makes sense that northern Yemenis are not the original people of that area or else they would have developed the same dark skin as horn africans for the protection of the UV radiation. interestingly the mehra have almost similar dark hue.
posted
^ All of that is no surprise considering Arabia is right next to Africa. Hence, Takruri's valid view of Arabia as being an extension of Africa as it really is geologically.
quote:Evergreen Posted: From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Vahriz was a Deylamite spahbod (commander) in the service of the Sassanid Empire of Persia (Iran). He was the head of a small expeditionary force of low ranking Azatan (Azadan) nobility numbering around 700 sent by Khosrau I to Yemen to help repel the invading Ethiopians of Axum. Vahriz was successful in expelling the invading Ethiopians from Yemen. He then resided there as the Persian governor of Yemen. Yemen became a vassal state of the Sassanids until the arrival of Islam.
Evergreen, do you think this explains the existence of blonde haired blue eyed types in Yemen?
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posted
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ All of that is no surprise considering Arabia is right next to Africa. Hence, Takruri's valid view of Arabia as being an extension of Africa as it really is geologically.
Evergreen, do you think this explains the existence of blonde haired blue eyed types in Yemen?
I lean toward considering those blonde-haired, blue-eyed Arabians and Yemeni as persons of predominant slave ancestry; children of the Saqaliba.
White slave women were highly desired as sexual concubines for a few centuries. The practice seems to have been revived lately. The number of Slav women, working the sex trade is enormous. I suspect the number of blonde and blue-eyed Arabs and North Africans will increase as these poor women sell themselves for cash or simplest compassion, to highest bidders as wives or kept women, and begin having children for the local men. (Only conjecture) Awaiting Evergreens more erudite answer.
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quote:Evergreen Posted: From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Vahriz was a Deylamite spahbod (commander) in the service of the Sassanid Empire of Persia (Iran). He was the head of a small expeditionary force of low ranking Azatan (Azadan) nobility numbering around 700 sent by Khosrau I to Yemen to help repel the invading Ethiopians of Axum. Vahriz was successful in expelling the invading Ethiopians from Yemen. He then resided there as the Persian governor of Yemen. Yemen became a vassal state of the Sassanids until the arrival of Islam.
Evergreen, do you think this explains the existence of blonde haired blue eyed types in Yemen?
Evergreen Writes:
I am not sure of this. More study is needed to answer this question.
Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Novel: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ All of that is no surprise considering Arabia is right next to Africa. Hence, Takruri's valid view of Arabia as being an extension of Africa as it really is geologically.
Evergreen, do you think this explains the existence of blonde haired blue eyed types in Yemen?
I lean toward considering those blonde-haired, blue-eyed Arabians and Yemeni as persons of predominant slave ancestry; children of the Saqaliba.
White slave women were highly desired as sexual concubines for a few centuries. The practice seems to have been revived lately. The number of Slav women, working the sex trade is enormous. I suspect the number of blonde and blue-eyed Arabs and North Africans will increase as these poor women sell themselves for cash or simplest compassion, to highest bidders as wives or kept women, and begin having children for the local men. (Only conjecture) Awaiting Evergreens more erudite answer.
Evergreen Writes:
This may be the case and may answer Djehuti's question. What does the mtDNA tell us in this regard?
Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
^ Keep in mind that the very word "slave" is derived from Slav!
Posts: 26322 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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