posted
I was curious as to if you guys here know anything about this? when if first read about this..it upset me greatly ( very serious... began ranting and snapping at everyone for a few days..it still upsets me when i think about it)
Damming Sudan Volume 59 Number 6, November/December 2006 by Andrew Lawler
Global apathy threatens a way of life and an unexpectedly rich heritage.
Etchings reflect a changing climate: the elephant an earlier, wetter one, and the camel a later, drier one. (Humboldt University Nubian Expedition) [LARGER IMAGE] The Land Rover is stuck, and the Manoosir tribesmen aren't lending a hand. In Sudan, where African generosity meets Arab politeness, this means trouble. Even our easygoing Sudanese driver tenses. A few miles downstream from this dusty mud-brick town on a remote bend of the Nile River, Chinese engineers are building the massive Meroe Dam that as early as next year may flood the villagers' homes, fields, and more than 100 miles of fertile valley. And archaeologists working to save what they can of this largely unexplored region before the waters rise are not welcomed by the locals. With our car and our equipment and our pale skin, we are harbingers of the end of their way of life.
More than 100 miles of Nile Valley's Fourth Cataract region, part of the river marked by shoals and rapids, will be submerged. (Humboldt University Nubian Expedition) [LARGER IMAGE] Unable to move forward through deep sand, we're forced to back up through a narrow alley as it fills with silent and unsmiling onlookers. But hospitality overcomes animosity, and an old man directs us to another dusty street, which leads to a slightly more passable sand track and the open desert beyond. Our driver guns it out of town. We'd been told in Khartoum not to stop while passing through Manoosir territory. A few months earlier, anger erupted on nearby Sherri Island when tribesmen--many of whom will be forced to relocate to barren desert--led marches and burned offices belonging to the dam project. In April, less than a month after our visit, militiamen killed and wounded more protesters in a bloody shootout in nearby Amri. And this past winter representatives of the Manoosir, who live on a long swath of the riverbank, politely but firmly told archaeologists to stay away. Foreign and Sudanese excavators are taking that advice seriously, and they are not sure if they can return.
The Meroe Dam already poses a humanitarian crisis. It will displace more than 50,000 people who live along this isolated region of the Nile, growing dates and herding sheep and goats. But the project is also creating a cultural heritage disaster largely ignored by the international media, UNESCO, and private preservation groups. Thousands--perhaps tens of thousands--of ancient sites are likely to vanish underwater as early as next year without even cursory examination.
A Greek text on a foundation brick excavated at an early church site identifies the sanctuary as the Church of Jacob and Mary, mother of God. (Humboldt University Nubian Expedition) [LARGER IMAGE] That impending destruction comes just as a half-dozen Sudanese and foreign teams discover that the obscure region was not the backwater archaeologists long imagined. During the past few seasons of hurried salvage work, the teams pinpointed hundreds of settlements and cemeteries spanning four millennia, rock art depicting everything from Neolithic giraffes, to Greek crosses, to an ancient pyramid. "We thought it was inhospitable and poor," concedes Derek Welsby, a British Museum archaeologist who has spent five seasons digging in the region and hopes to return this winter if the violence subsides. "But what we're finding causes us to rethink that. This area is so incredibly rich in archaeology."
Flooding will start in August 2007, though it will be not until 2008 or 2009 that large sections are underwater. With time short and larger forces at work, archaeologists are watching closely to see what they can rescue before it is too late. The Fourth Cataract--after a brief emergence into the archaeological limelight--seems destined to slip back into obscurity, this time for eternity.
--------------------------------------------- more on recent news
Sudan cancels UN envoy trip to dam protest site 01 Mar 2008 13:17:15 GMT Source: Reuters KHARTOUM, March 1 (Reuters) - Sudan has refused to allow a U.N. human rights envoy to visit an area north of the capital where police shot protesters last year, citing security concerns, the world body said on Saturday.
Sudanese police killed four people in June during a protest against plans to build a new dam in Kajbar in the Northern State, around 200 km (125 miles) north of Khartoum.
Sima Samar, the U.N. human rights special rapporteur for Sudan, was scheduled to travel to the area over the weekend as part of an official visit to the country.
"The visit was not approved by the government which cited security concerns by the state authorities," Khaled Mansour, director of public information for the U.N. mission in Sudan, told Reuters.
Sudanese Justice Minister Abdel Basit Sabderat declined to comment.
Sima, a former Afghan deputy prime minister, has served as the U.N. special rapporteur on human rights in Sudan since 2005. She has reported war crimes by Sudanese forces and their allied militia in the troubled Darfur region.
Mansour said Samar was also set to visit Port Sudan on the Red Sea and the war-ravaged region of Darfur in the west.
International experts estimate some 200,000 have died and 2.5 million have been forced to flee their homes since the conflict flared in 2003 when rebels took up arms against the central government, accusing it of neglecting the region.
The United States calls the violence a genocide. Sudan rejects this and says only 9,000 people have lost their lives. (Reporting by Alaa Shahine; Editing by Jon Boyle
posted
Jesus again!?! I cant wait till Ethiopia decides to build a dam cutting off water to Sudan and Egypt.
Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
LOL! You guys are funny.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
before its was north nubia, egyptian nubia...now its the sudanese nubia...why are they destroying such a marverlous civilization
Posts: 40 | From: Chicago | Registered: Nov 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by tk101: before its was north nubia, egyptian nubia...now its the sudanese nubia...why are they destroying such a marverlous civilization
To say this pisses me off is putting it lightly, The B.S is just too much. First of all, this is PURE racism plain and simple. Showcasing the civilization and accomplishment of so called Nubia is what is at stake here. Of all the years Nubia lied isolated TEAMING with Archological evidence of PURE AFRICAN achievement RIVILING that of Egypt...ABLE TO FILL BOOKS UPON BOOKS...and NOW these DAMN people want to RUSH to Sudan months before EVERYTHING is gone and CLAIM...OH IT IS FULL OF CIVILIZATION....THE BLACKS DID HAVE SOMETHING...
Naw cuase they can't twist and distort this into a diffusionist or MIXED civiliation like they do ALL African Nations of antiquity from Ethiopia to Km.t....Naw cuase they can't Bastardize Suadan with Eurocentric Bullshit like they Did Km.t...NOT FUC@ING EGYPT ...ITS CALLED KEMET....But of course NO ONE CARES...not even these phony assed Afrocentrics and their Diffusionist ideas.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by astenb: Jesus again!?! I cant wait till Ethiopia decides to build a dam cutting off water to Sudan and Egypt.
According to a British Treaty Egypt ownes 86 pecent of the Nile and sudan 18....meaning Ethiopia has no claims....LOL....the Nerve huh....People living in Ice in a frozen waste land called "Britian" after 500 years of the Romans forcing them into civilization....HAVE THE NERVE to go to Africa and sign a treaty of a RIVER that inhabitants of Regions have occupied from the time Homosapiens could walk upright....
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by tk101: before its was north nubia, egyptian nubia...now its the sudanese nubia...why are they destroying such a marverlous civilization
To say this pisses me off is putting it lightly, The B.S is just too much. First of all, this is PURE racism plain and simple. Showcasing the civilization and accomplishment of so called Nubia is what is at stake here. Of all the years Nubia lied isolated TEAMING with Archological evidence of PURE AFRICAN achievement RIVILING that of Egypt...ABLE TO FILL BOOKS UPON BOOKS...and NOW these DAMN people want to RUSH to Sudan months before EVERYTHING is gone and CLAIM...OH IT IS FULL OF CIVILIZATION....THE BLACKS DID HAVE SOMETHING...
Naw cuase they can't twist and distort this into a diffusionist or MIXED civiliation like they do ALL African Nations of antiquity from Ethiopia to Km.t....Naw cuase they can't Bastardize Suadan with Eurocentric Bullshit like they Did Km.t...NOT FUC@ING EGYPT ...ITS CALLED KEMET....But of course NO ONE CARES...not even these phony assed Afrocentrics and their Diffusionist ideas.
you are right...Jari-Ankhamunm where are the proclaimed afrocentrist when you need them.This nothing but pure grade A bullsh*t.Everytime I see the word Sudanese...i get very angry. When I first learned of such a tragedy, i had to tell people. so I had a talk with a friend of mine, you know the typical american who only cares about whats right in front of them, He basically spoke the truth(somewhat) about it even though he hasn't heard of it until i told him.He says people dont care, which is true. There is no money in it, beucase if there was, the government would try to flood it. He also mentioned that there would be very little people in this country that do anything about even if they cared...( he is one of them)
and i felt the same way when the chinese flooded their 3 river area...losing soo much archealogical and historical structures/material to rising floods. At least the government backed the excavations ( as far as i know)and supported archealogists. Sudan is trying to wash it away...literally..
I watched a video about the archealogist trying to savalge the civilization.( i believe its the one with Mrs. Gates) Thats good but i think they waited until the bare limit. Are the nubians themselves trying to excavate the sites?
This just seems too surreal for some reason...i just can't comprehend why would they do this...
i notice how some people seem to think of great african civlization as an oxymoron phrase or simply juxiposed words. and when we find an extraordinary one...noone does research into it... THIS JUST REALLY PISS ME OFF....and the self proclaimed afrocentrist scholars who want to advance knowledge about africa sit there and do nothing to explore ALL of the OTHER civilizations on the continent. what really gets me is the all of the potential knowledge is being flushed down the drain...and the sad part is that when Sudan becomes modernized..they will regret what they are doing now...
ITS JUST TO UNREAL..for me to accpet rightnow...
Posts: 40 | From: Chicago | Registered: Nov 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by astenb: Jesus again!?! I cant wait till Ethiopia decides to build a dam cutting off water to Sudan and Egypt.
According to a British Treaty Egypt ownes 86 pecent of the Nile and sudan 18....meaning Ethiopia has no claims....LOL....the Nerve huh....People living in Ice in a frozen waste land called "Britian" after 500 years of the Romans forcing them into civilization....HAVE THE NERVE to go to Africa and sign a treaty of a RIVER that inhabitants of Regions have occupied from the time Homosapiens could walk upright....
Whatever that means. Maybe i guess they can claim the portion of the nile that is in their country. But 90% of the water comes from the sources in Ethiopia. DO they claim to claim the Ethiopian sources of the Nile as well?
Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by tk101: before its was north nubia, egyptian nubia...now its the sudanese nubia...why are they destroying such a marverlous civilization
To say this pisses me off is putting it lightly, The B.S is just too much. First of all, this is PURE racism plain and simple. Showcasing the civilization and accomplishment of so called Nubia is what is at stake here. Of all the years Nubia lied isolated TEAMING with Archological evidence of PURE AFRICAN achievement RIVILING that of Egypt...ABLE TO FILL BOOKS UPON BOOKS...and NOW these DAMN people want to RUSH to Sudan months before EVERYTHING is gone and CLAIM...OH IT IS FULL OF CIVILIZATION....THE BLACKS DID HAVE SOMETHING...
Naw cuase they can't twist and distort this into a diffusionist or MIXED civiliation like they do ALL African Nations of antiquity from Ethiopia to Km.t....Naw cuase they can't Bastardize Suadan with Eurocentric Bullshit like they Did Km.t...NOT FUC@ING EGYPT ...ITS CALLED KEMET....But of course NO ONE CARES...not even these phony assed Afrocentrics and their Diffusionist ideas.
you are right...Jari-Ankhamunm where are the proclaimed afrocentrist when you need them.This nothing but pure grade A bullsh*t.Everytime I see the word Sudanese...i get very angry. When I first learned of such a tragedy, i had to tell people. so I had a talk with a friend of mine, you know the typical american who only cares about whats right in front of them, He basically spoke the truth(somewhat) about it even though he hasn't heard of it until i told him.He says people dont care, which is true. There is no money in it, beucase if there was, the government would try to flood it. He also mentioned that there would be very little people in this country that do anything about even if they cared...( he is one of them)
and i felt the same way when the chinese flooded their 3 river area...losing soo much archealogical and historical structures/material to rising floods. At least the government backed the excavations ( as far as i know)and supported archealogists. Sudan is trying to wash it away...literally..
I watched a video about the archealogist trying to savalge the civilization.( i believe its the one with Mrs. Gates) Thats good but i think they waited until the bare limit. Are the nubians themselves trying to excavate the sites?
This just seems too surreal for some reason...i just can't comprehend why would they do this...
i notice how some people seem to think of great african civlization as an oxymoron phrase or simply juxiposed words. and when we find an extraordinary one...noone does research into it... THIS JUST REALLY PISS ME OFF....and the self proclaimed afrocentrist scholars who want to advance knowledge about africa sit there and do nothing to explore ALL of the OTHER civilizations on the continent. what really gets me is the all of the potential knowledge is being flushed down the drain...and the sad part is that when Sudan becomes modernized..they will regret what they are doing now...
ITS JUST TO UNREAL..for me to accpet rightnow...
Well you friend(excuse me) is a PURE MORON...The evidence and cultural items located in Sudan could literally change the course of History as we know it. Just as the Fortresses of Buhen were flodded in Nassar God knows what will be lost in the Sudan. He is right though Americans Black and Whites alike don't give a Sh@t about Africa..hell his is barely news.
As for these phony assed European archaeologists trying to rush in and salvage the scraps they cant get their Racist god Forsaken Greedy Filthy hands on HAVE NO RESPECT IN MY BOOK. The hell with them!!!!! What the hell is the damn point NOW!!!! Go back to "EGYPT" and let it go.....I mean What the hell do they care ANYWAY. I SERIOUSLY lost A HELL lot of respect for the Archeology field. Even in the 21st century it is still plagued with Racists and White Supremists. I mean reading the article where some fool said....WOW THERE WAS CIVILIZATION HERE....Like....Fu#@ing DUH...what do you think they did this whole time...Moron....guess his wet dream about Ashen Skinned Nordic Barbarians being the TRUE CIVILIZATIONS got shattered.
And don't GET ME STARTED on these phony ass so alled Egyptologists
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by tk101: before its was north nubia, egyptian nubia...now its the sudanese nubia...why are they destroying such a marverlous civilization
To say this pisses me off is putting it lightly, The B.S is just too much. First of all, this is PURE racism plain and simple. Showcasing the civilization and accomplishment of so called Nubia is what is at stake here. Of all the years Nubia lied isolated TEAMING with Archological evidence of PURE AFRICAN achievement RIVILING that of Egypt...ABLE TO FILL BOOKS UPON BOOKS...and NOW these DAMN people want to RUSH to Sudan months before EVERYTHING is gone and CLAIM...OH IT IS FULL OF CIVILIZATION....THE BLACKS DID HAVE SOMETHING...
Naw cuase they can't twist and distort this into a diffusionist or MIXED civiliation like they do ALL African Nations of antiquity from Ethiopia to Km.t....Naw cuase they can't Bastardize Suadan with Eurocentric Bullshit like they Did Km.t...NOT FUC@ING EGYPT ...ITS CALLED KEMET....But of course NO ONE CARES...not even these phony assed Afrocentrics and their Diffusionist ideas.
you are right...Jari-Ankhamunm where are the proclaimed afrocentrist when you need them.This nothing but pure grade A bullsh*t.Everytime I see the word Sudanese...i get very angry. When I first learned of such a tragedy, i had to tell people. so I had a talk with a friend of mine, you know the typical american who only cares about whats right in front of them, He basically spoke the truth(somewhat) about it even though he hasn't heard of it until i told him.He says people dont care, which is true. There is no money in it, beucase if there was, the government would try to flood it. He also mentioned that there would be very little people in this country that do anything about even if they cared...( he is one of them)
and i felt the same way when the chinese flooded their 3 river area...losing soo much archealogical and historical structures/material to rising floods. At least the government backed the excavations ( as far as i know)and supported archealogists. Sudan is trying to wash it away...literally..
I watched a video about the archealogist trying to savalge the civilization.( i believe its the one with Mrs. Gates) Thats good but i think they waited until the bare limit. Are the nubians themselves trying to excavate the sites?
This just seems too surreal for some reason...i just can't comprehend why would they do this...
i notice how some people seem to think of great african civlization as an oxymoron phrase or simply juxiposed words. and when we find an extraordinary one...noone does research into it... THIS JUST REALLY PISS ME OFF....and the self proclaimed afrocentrist scholars who want to advance knowledge about africa sit there and do nothing to explore ALL of the OTHER civilizations on the continent. what really gets me is the all of the potential knowledge is being flushed down the drain...and the sad part is that when Sudan becomes modernized..they will regret what they are doing now...
ITS JUST TO UNREAL..for me to accpet rightnow...
Oxymoron, Hell "Nubia" Preceeded Km.t in civilization, Km.t was nothing more than an Extension and carbon copy of Sudanic/Nilo-Sharan Culture on the Rise.
Fact of the matter is when the Greeks such as Herodotus came to Km.t and Kush(The Merotic culture) they by-passed Egypt and named Kush or Aethiopia as the FOUNTAIN HEAD OF CIVILIZATION....LOL. The Greeks KNEW who started what...THEY KNEW THEIR stuff...That is why I have the Most respect for the ancient Greeks. If Egypt was SO MUCH BETTER than Kush and the Kushites were backwards ect. living off Egyptian culture...Why did'nt the Greeks call Egypt the Fountain head of civilization...?
And that was JUST Meroe, lets not forget Kerma..AKA Ta-Sety, Punt, Yam, ect. Lets not forget WHO assisted Km.t in driving off the Asiatics....Lets not forget the Upper Egyptian/Lower "Nubian" A group that LED TO TE UNIFICATION in the first place...LOLOLOLOL.
The more you explore Egypt the Blacker and African it becomes...Straight up. The invaders and self haters of Egypt today calling themselves Asiatics "Arabs"...their ancestors are rolling in their grave. The Egyptians hated Kush...One of several African nations...They had friends and allies ALL over Africa...not only that they painted Certain Africans such as the Ethiopians and Somalis(Punites) and the Medjay and even the Wretched Kush as jet black(In Kushes Case) and also the same skin as them....The Egyptians knew they were Africans and that Africans came in all shades from Jet black to Dark Brown.
However the Egyptians HATED the Asiatics. I remember a quote...."Don't worry about the Asiatic...He is AFTER ALL an Asiatic"...LOL. I wish these fools could go back in time and tell Menes or hell Ramses the biggest Asiatic Hater of them all(who do you think Abu Simbel was dedicated to Imbarass..?) They were "Arabs"...aka Asiatics....Lol...you would get buried alive....lol.
Anyway, I see this as a way to wash out the truth, the more African civilization they can distort and desroy the better.
As for the Chinese...what can I say..lol. These fools are nothing but Wesernized ass kissers...lol. I loved Asian culture becuase it USED TO BE..SO UN WESTERN but Great in its unique way...now look at Beijing or ay modern chinese city....looks like a New York Carbon Copy...Sad too..Japan is pretty Westernized but not as bad as China...Hell Japanese culture has influenced American and European cultures...Manga ANimae...ect. Soon Sudan will be the next Carbon Copy of the West...and soon the rest of Africa.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
let's hope something goes wrong with the dam or it does not really take off or maybe it does not do the job around the fourth cataracts or to hope that thier is not that much damage..since i have not heard any recent info on it.hopefully there is more pressure to stop it.here is a link to help
posted
I agree, Kenndo.hopefully something will happen and the dam will stop. but it would take an act of god to stop the pro-arab Sudanese government.
Jari-Ankhamun
As for my friend...i could agree with you more people like him dont understand the importance of things like this. He is the type of person who detests history and down plays its role in our modern world.
don't be fooled by the chinese behavior...they have no intention in being that kind to the west. It only APPEARS as if they are..but its simply them trying to utilize the current world system to get on top of the game. When china becomes a super power... agian..things will be alot different.
As for the european archeaologist...it doesn't surprise me that some were shocked about the importance and archeological significance of Africa civlizations. but at least they are trying to get artifacts even if its almost too late...
When i did research on the subject, Mainly the Meroe Dam salvage project. Most of what they found out ( the last minute Archeologist) was the importance of Trade ( Gold) and its production...I want to hear NEW things about the Kingdom(s)...It wouldn't surprise me if they did find some important and not reveal it yet...
and as for my friend...he is a person that detests history, so it would be hard for him and people like him to understand. I tried to explain possiblities and potential knowledge gained... but it was like talking to a brick wall...
Mr. Gates from Harvard( i believe that was his name) Mentioned much more interesting information such as on of the structures in, i think Meroe was actually a univeristy. It was also mentioned of the possiblity of the cities they were unearthing maybe 4000 years old and due to their being a layering effect( a city is destroyed and another one is built on top of the old) the oldest may date back to 5000 bc...not sure factual it is but its very interesting.
Posts: 40 | From: Chicago | Registered: Nov 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote: Oxymoron, Hell "Nubia" Preceeded Km.t in civilization, Km.t was nothing more than an Extension and carbon copy of Sudanic/Nilo-Sharan Culture on the Rise.
Egypt's culture comes from the south but Egypt and Kush were both unique cultures (not exact carbon copies I mean) Just like Brittan and France
Posts: 2642 | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by tk101: before its was north nubia, egyptian nubia...now its the sudanese nubia...why are they destroying such a marverlous civilization
To say this pisses me off is putting it lightly, The B.S is just too much. First of all, this is PURE racism plain and simple. Showcasing the civilization and accomplishment of so called Nubia is what is at stake here. Of all the years Nubia lied isolated TEAMING with Archological evidence of PURE AFRICAN achievement RIVILING that of Egypt...ABLE TO FILL BOOKS UPON BOOKS...and NOW these DAMN people want to RUSH to Sudan months before EVERYTHING is gone and CLAIM...OH IT IS FULL OF CIVILIZATION....THE BLACKS DID HAVE SOMETHING...
Naw cuase they can't twist and distort this into a diffusionist or MIXED civiliation like they do ALL African Nations of antiquity from Ethiopia to Km.t....Naw cuase they can't Bastardize Suadan with Eurocentric Bullshit like they Did Km.t...NOT FUC@ING EGYPT ...ITS CALLED KEMET....But of course NO ONE CARES...not even these phony assed Afrocentrics and their Diffusionist ideas.
I prefer using their self-name as well, rather than the European one. I agree. Not just with Egypt, but with other cultures as well except with China I can't remember whatever the hell it was.
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic