Scholars at the Egyptian Museum in Cairo are using state-of-the-art technology to determine if a mummy is that of Pharaoh Thutmose I.
Zahi Hawass, Egypt's Secretary General of the Supreme Council of Antiquities and chief archaeologist, revealed to the Middle East News Agency on May 29, 2008 his plans for subjecting a 3,500-year-old mummy to DNA and other testing at Cairo's Egyptian Museum. He hopes to determine if the remains he's chosen to study are indeed those of Pharaoh Thutmose I (r. 1504-1492 B.C.). Dr. Hawass is also Director of Excavations at the Giza Pyramids, Saqqara and Bahariya Oasis.
Identifying Thutmose I A mummy in the Egyptian Museum has for many years been thought to be that of the New Kingdom ruler. Hawass disputes the body's accepted identity. Assisted by an exclusive team of native Egyptologists, the National Geographic Society's most prominent Scholar-in-Residence is conducting DNA testing and X-ray analysis of another ancient corpse. The body was flown from Luxor's Valley of the Kings, the Theban necropolis or cemetery of many royal burials from Egypt's 18th Dynasty (ca. 1550-1295 B.C.), to Cairo for thorough examination.
Testing is occurring in the Egyptian Museum's $5 million DNA laboratory, a new state-of-the-art facility financed by the Discovery Channel. Dr. Hawass' long-term plans include using its modern technology to re-examine all of ancient Egypt's royal remains in an attempt to provide them with positive identifications.
Egyptian Mummies and DNA Testing The DNA testing of royal mummies in Egypt is a relatively recent scientific development. Obtaining usable nuclear DNA from a mummy can be extremely difficult; often it is deteriorated due to age. If a viable specimen is retrieved, it needs to be compared to samples from the subject's immediate relatives for accurate determination of the person's lineage. Hawass has revealed that the mummy's DNA will be analyzed with that of two females.
For reasons of national security, DNA test results of Egyptian mummies are usually kept confidential. Some scholars conjecture that full disclosure of the research's findings could lead to a major revision of the country's ancient dynastic history.
It was almost one year ago that Zahi Hawass announced the almost certain identification of a mummy as that of Queen Hatshepsut (r. 1479-1458 B.C.), the sister of Tuthmose II (r. 1492-1479 B.C.) and ancient Egypt's most powerful female pharaoh. His findings were based largely on forensic evidence. DNA testing was subsequently performed on the corpse. The investigation's (perhaps inconclusive) results were never published, leaving the mummy's true identity in question. -------------------------------------------------
Early Egyptian DNA is a national security issue????
I wonder what is being concealed.
I bet the DNA profile is of Northern Sudanese extraction....
Regards
Posts: 107 | From: USA | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote: For reasons of national security, DNA test results of Egyptian mummies are usually kept confidential. Some scholars conjecture that full disclosure of the research's findings could lead to a major revision of the country's ancient dynastic history.
OMG, this has to be the most revealing statement yet concerning Eurocentric Egyptology. They might as well have said the predominant haplotypes were of East African origin. I mean, the statement its self is self-defeating and contradictory. By saying:
"findings could lead to a major revision of the country's ancient dynastic history"
^^They're implying that the DNA profile of the ancients don't exactly match the DNA profile of moderns or common held beliefs in Eurocentric Egyptology of non-African Egyptians [or people] in general. Thus, if we have PROOF of who these people were by way of direct genetic extraction, then what kind of "historical revision" can possibly take place [aside from the frequent revisionism in Eurocentric discourse]??
-------------------- mr.writer.asa@gmail.com Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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I agree. They may know more then they are letting out, and The reason why the DNA identification is kept quiet is because they are probably afraid of showing people that the Egyptians were more "African" then told. I would not be surprised they came out with a distorted and corrupt DNA on Tutmoses. They may hide the evidence until they can put a proper spin on it.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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^ They could just resort to spinning and distorting the facts which isn't that hard since there is evidence of African E lineages that have spilled out of Africa and into Southwest Asia and southern Europe.
Don't be surprised if they tried claiming ancient Egyptians weren't black because they shared (E3) lineages with populations in the Levant and Greece! The denial of E3b being African has already happened concerning populations of the aforementioned regions. LOLPosts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Tests thus far done on Egyptians have consistently shown them to be *predominantly* PN2 carriers. Therefore, there is a definite genetic structuring in the Nile Valley, as far as lineage distribution patterns go.
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Hi Ausarian, I haven't been here in a while, well I was just wondering can you elaborate on that PN2 carries.
Posts: 62 | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Johnny Blaze: Hi Ausarian, I haven't beet hen here in a while, well I was just wondering can you elaborate on that PN2 carries.
Maybe, since you asked him, he can explain it to you in layman's terms. In the meanwhile, read this:
posted
Nat'l Geo + TDC = Complete Euro control over Egypt's DNA lab. The piper's been paid by those who will call his tunes.
National security threat from chromosomes? Shee-yit. Now I've heard everything.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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LOL...it obvious isn't it...I mean we all know that Thuthmose was From Thebes in Upper Egypt..
The should have test their Redhaired white Man Ramses...LOL.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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Hi Ausarian, I haven't been here in a while, well I was just wondering can you elaborate on that PN2 carries.
Several authors have published DNA results from sampling Egyptians both in parts of Lower and Upper Egypt. Examples that instantly come to mind; Luis et al., Lucotte et al., Krings et al., Semino et al., Arredi et al., A. Gonzalez et al., Richards et al. etc. And yes, that aforementioned Keita piece linked via a pdf medium, reasonably covers what I was driving at, in relative detail.
In basic terms, the predominant PN2 variants distributed along Egypt fall into the two major clades of E1b1b and E1b1a, with the former being the relatively more prevalent of the two.
Yes, there are other clades distributed in the region in varying frequencies, like say, haplogroups J, R, possibly some G, and some deep-root typical African clades but neither are as dominant as the PN2-decended lineages.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Nat'l Geo + TDC = Complete Euro control over Egypt's DNA lab. The piper's been paid by those who will call his tunes.
National security threat from chromosomes? Shee-yit. Now I've heard everything.
Maybe they are afraid that Sudan (Again) would claim they are the legitimate rulers to their country. Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
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quote:For reasons of national security, DNA test results of Egyptian mummies are usually kept confidential. Some scholars conjecture that full disclosure of the research's findings could lead to a major revision of the country's ancient dynastic history.
LOL, what are they thinking? Is someone, upon learning the secrets of Ancient Egyptian DNA, going to construct some bioweapon, travel back in time, and kill off the Ancient Egyptians?
Posts: 7069 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:For reasons of national security, DNA test results of Egyptian mummies are usually kept confidential. Some scholars conjecture that full disclosure of the research's findings could lead to a major revision of the country's ancient dynastic history.
LOL, what are they thinking?
quote:
You took the words right out of my mouth.
Posts: 62 | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:It was almost one year ago that Zahi Hawass announced the almost certain identification of a mummy as that of Queen Hatshepsut (r. 1479-1458 B.C.), the sister of Tuthmose II (r. 1492-1479 B.C.) and ancient Egypt's most powerful female pharaoh. His findings were based largely on forensic evidence. DNA testing was subsequently performed on the corpse. The investigation's (perhaps inconclusive) results were never published, leaving the mummy's true identity in question.
^ Hawass - corrupt official, keeper of state secrets, and intellectual coward...posing as a scholar.
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Well, let's just take a look at what antropology has to tell us about the Mummy in question, and it will tell us why, they're making these DNA findings out to be a matter of national security.
James Harris and Edward Wente conducted an x-ray analysis of the New Kingdom royal mummies with the results published in their book X-ray Atlas of the Royal Mummies (Chicago: University of Chicago, 1980). Included in the work were cephalograms of Pharaohs of the XVII-XX Dynasties and their queens.
These are the results of Thutmose I X-ray analysis.
Thutmose I
Father: ?, Mother: Senisoneb
Globular skull with high vault; rounded forehead; sagittal plateau; rounded, bulging occiput; weakly manifested glabella; vertical zygomatic arches. Strongly proclined upper and lower incisors; sharply receding chin and angled mandible. Squat ramus and pronounced prognathism.
For those who don't know, these above traits are found predominately in persons of African origin or descent. So where's the confusion???
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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How does that threaten national security? Is it a strategic military advantage? It cripples the national economy somehow? Does it destroy the infrastructure? Can it topple the government? Loosen the borders? What?
Not really, they are also found in significant percentages in East Asians of all latitudes. Furthermore, significant percentages of African populations have profiles that are orthogonal to an extent similar to Southern Europeans.
Just check the WWII cartoon depictions of the Japanese with their buck teeth--caused by the angled slant of their profiles.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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Not really, they are also found in significant percentages in East Asians of all latitudes. Furthermore, significant percentages of African populations have profiles that are orthogonal to an extent similar to Southern Europeans.
Just check the WWII cartoon depictions of the Japanese with their buck teeth--caused by the angled slant of their profiles.
Well, ok, let me be more specific, when a Mummy is found in AFRICA, with these AFRICAN features, most likely he will be an AFRICAN, unless you're proposing Chinese were the Egyptians? Just like one Euro tried to propose Icelanders, with their childhood prognathism, to prove 'whites' or (Europeans) can have prognathism! Yes of course orthogonal traits can be found in Africa, comes in the form of Elongated Africans, adapting to a hot dry climate. These orthogonal traits were around in Africa, before the pale 'white' skin of Europe even evolved. Europeans still exhibited signs of tropical adaptation up until about the end of the Mesolithic, and maybe even later.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: How does that threaten national security? Is it a strategic military advantage? It cripples the national economy somehow? Does it destroy the infrastructure? Can it topple the government? Loosen the borders? What?
The "Arab" Republic of Egypt probably doesn't want to admit that their greatest national treasures had Jewish blood!
More of that U6 mtDNA issues, right! West Asian rather than African? They probably don't mind being considered European but actually Jewish - ouch!
Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
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DNA tests to study tiny mummies from King Tut tomb
By SALAH NASRAWI – 17 minutes ago
CAIRO, Egypt (AP) — Scientists will conduct DNA tests on two tiny mummified bodies found in the tomb of King Tutankhamun to determine whether they were the young pharaoh's offspring, Egypt's Supreme Council of Antiquities said Wednesday.
There has been no archaeological evidence that King Tut, who died around the age of 19 under mysterious circumstances more than 3,000 years ago, left any offspring. But mummies found in his tomb contained the bodies of two females born prematurely between five to seven months gestation who may be his stillborn children, said Zahi Hawass, head of the antiquities authority.
The DNA tests will also seek to establish Tutankhamun's family lineage, a mystery among many Egyptologists.
"All of these results will be compared to each other, along with those of the mummy of King Tutankhamun," Hawass said in a statement.
Tutankhamun was one of the last kings of Egypt's 18th Dynasty. Scholars believe that at age 12, he married his half-sister Ankhesenamun but the couple had no surviving children.
Hawass has announced ambitious plans for DNA tests on Egyptian mummies, including all royal mummies and the nearly two dozen unidentified ones stored in the Egyptian Museum in Cairo. He has said the tests may show that some royal mummies on display are not who archaeologists thought them to be.
There is some secrecy surrounding Egypt's DNA testing of mummies. Hawass has long rejected such testing by foreign experts, and only recently allowed it on condition the tests be done exclusively by Egyptians.
He has never disclosed the full outcome of the examinations of the mummy of Hatshepsut, Egypt's most powerful queen and the only female pharaoh. Nor has he submitted the results for a test by second lab, as it is a common practice. This has raised concerns about the validity of the Egyptian results.
Last year, Egypt announced that archaeologists had identified the mummy of Hatshepsut. But scientists later said they were still analyzing DNA from the bald, 3,500-year-old mummy to try to back up the claim.
Ashraf Selim, a radiologist and member of the Egyptian team, said the tests could take several months. So far, the team has carried out CT scans on the two small mummies and taken samples for DNA tests. Since they were found in the tomb in Luxor as part of the 1922 King Tut discovery, the two mummies have been kept in storage at the Cairo School of Medicine and were never publicly displayed or studied, Selim said.
"We want to find out the truth and facts relevant to the history of these kings," Selim told The Associated Press.
Abdel-Halim Nour el-Deen, a former head of the antiquities council and a leading Egyptologist, said DNA testing on mummies thousands of years old is very difficult.
"It is doubtful that it could produce a scientific result to determine such important issues such as the lineage of pharaohs," el-Deen told the AP. El-Deen also criticized the Council for not making public the results of the tests already carried out.
By Edward F. Wente, Professor, The Oriental Institute and the Department of Near Eastern Languages and Civilizations The University of Chicago
What is more, comparison of the cephalograms and cluster analysis revealed that the mummy supposed to be that of Thutmose IV bore the closest resemblance in craniofacial morphology to the remains of Tutankhamun and the skeleton from KV 55, often considered to be Smenkhkare. In 1984 the nearly complete skeleton from KV 55 was reconstructed, and the jaw was remounted in its correct position. As a result of further examination, the age at death of this individual has been estimated to be about 35 years, and the facial skeleton is even more similar to Tutankhamun's than had previously been thought.
From textual sources we know that the second half of the Eighteenth Dynasty line ran from father to son as follows: Thutmose III, Amenhotep II, Thutmose IV, Amenhotep III, Akhenaten. However, a comparison of the craniofacial morphologies of the mummies that have been attributed to these kings would suggest a sequence more like Thutmose III, Thutmose IV, Amenhotep II, Amenhotep III. Obviously something is wrong here, and a possible solution lies in questioning the veracity of the dockets of some of these mummies.
It has been observed that the craniofacial morphologies of Thutmose IV, Tutankhamun, and Smenkhkare are very similar, and one would thus like to bring the Thutmose IV mummy as close in time as possible to Tutankhamun. Although the tomb of Tutankhamun contained such a wealth of material, there was no precise indication in the tomb regarding his parentage. A lock of Queen Tiye's hair, discovered in a miniature coffin in the tomb of Tutankhamun, suggests that he was related to this major queen of Amenhotep III, and indeed there are a number of inscriptions in the Luxor Temple and on the Soleb lion that refer to Amenhotep III as the father of Tutankhamun. The Oriental Institute's archivist, John Larson, published in Featured Object Number One January 1985 , an astronomical instrument dedicated by Tutankhamun to "the father of his father" Thutmose IV. The problem with such terminology is that the Egyptian word for father can also have the extended meaning of grandfather or forefather. On a block originally from Amarna there is reference to "the king's son of his body, his beloved, Tutankhuaten," which should indicate that Tutankhuaten, Tutankhamun's name before the return to orthodoxy, was the son of a pharaoh. Usually scholars have concluded that Tutankhamun, because of his young age at death and the length of the reign of Akhenaten, was the son of Akhenaten by a minor wife named Kiya, but other scholars, who are in a minority, have postulated a long coregency between Amenhotep III and his son Akhenaten and proposed making Tutankhamun the son of Amenhotep III and Queen Tiye. What may be said on the basis of the biologic evidence of craniofacial variation is that the mummy labeled as Amenhotep III by the restorers was not a likely father, or even grandfather, of Tutankhamun. SEQUENCE OF KINGS ROYAL MUMMIES
DYNASTY 18 SCHEME 1 SCHEME 2 SCHEME 3
Thutmose I = Thutmose II Thutmose II Thutmose II Thutmose II = Seti II Seti II Seti II Thutmose III = Thutmose III Thutmose III ? Thutmose III Amenhotep II = --- --- ? Thutmose III Thutmose IV = Amenhotep II Amenhotep II Thutmose IV Amenhotep III = Thutmose IV Thutmose IV Amenhotep II Akhenaten = KV 55 --- Amenhotep III Smenkhkare = --- KV 55 KV 55 Tutankhamun = Tutankhamun Tutankhamun Tutankhamun Aye = Amenhotep III Amenhotep III ---
To solve the riddle posed by the mummies, there are several possible reconstructions of the genealogies. Remembering that a close father-son-grandson cluster of the mummies docketed Thutmose III, Amenhotep II, and Thutmose IV is improbable biologically, one might propose that a gap should be inserted between Thutmose III and Amenhotep II so that Amenhotep II becomes Thutmose IV and Thutmose IV becomes Amenhotep III. The advantage of this shuffling of the mummies is that the close clustering of the mummies of Thutmose IV, Smenkhkare, and Tutankhamun is maintained. If as some have proposed, the skeleton from KV 55 is Akhenaten's and not Smenkhkare's, we would then have a nice father-son-grandson succession: Amenhotep III (represented by the Thutmose IV mummy), Akhenaten (the skeleton from KV 55), and Tutankhamun. The unusual mummy labeled Amenhotep III might then be identified with King Aye, Tutankhamun's successor (Scheme 1). A variant of this reconstruction is to take the skeleton from KV 55 as Smenkhkare's rather than Akhenaten's, in which case Smenkhkare and Tutankhamun would be brothers and either grandsons or sons of Amenhotep III, represented by the mummy labeled Thutmose IV (Scheme 2).
Cranial Shape of Thutmose IV, Amehotep III(?) and Tutankhamen
(Etchings from Wente, Who was Who among the Royal Mummies,
According to the description of identification of blacks and whites given by WM Krogman, one of leading forensic anthropologists, the truest African blacks are identified by a projecting rounded glabella, rounded forehead, flat sagittal contour (sometimes with post-bregmatic depression), prognathism, rounded occiput and orbital shape. In contrast, Caucasians have depressed glabella, steep forehead, rounded or arched sagittal contour, variable occiput and orthognathism(WM Krogman. The human skeleton in forensic medicine. (Springfield, Ill.: C. C. Thomas, 1962).
These features can be studied using lateral views of cepahalograms. In the etchings of the Pharaohs, we can see that Thutmose IV and Amenhotep III have prominent, rounded glabellae. All three have more rounded foreheads. With the exception of Tutankhamen, whose head is highly anomalous, the Pharaohs appear to have flat sagittal contours. By observing Tutankhamen's head, one can also notice the comparative elevation of the skulls of the other two.
The occiput is not rounded in appearance, although the x-ray of Amenhotep below does have such an appearance. There does seem to be a slight occipital bun as found in many African populations including Khoisan and Nubian (and even abroad among Melanesians).
Detailed Analysis of Computerized Images of Thutmose IV, Tutankhamen and Amenhotep III(?)
As important as the angular and metric data are less quantifiable features of the cephalograms. We will examine the computerized itchings of Thutmose IV and Tutankhamen with the superimposed image of the proposed head of Amenhotep III found in Edward Wente's article, Who was Who among the Royal Mummies, published in The Oriental Institute News and Notes, No. 144, Winter 1995, and available on the web at http://www.oi.uchicago.edu/OI/IS/WENTE/NN_Win95/NN_Win95.html.
The first thing an anthropologist might notice is the elevation of the skulls of Thutmose IV and Amenhotep III(?). This gives a roundish appearance to the skull. Tutankhamen's skull is rather exceptional as can be seen in the x-ray image. The elevated skull and roundish appearance are features commonly assigned to the African phenotype. In comparsion, "Caucasoid" skulls are usually level and the top of the head has a oblong type of appearance (see Stephen Molnar. Human variation : races, types, and ethnic groups [ Englewood Cliffs, N.J.: Prentice Hall, 1992; Juan Comas, Manual of physical anthropology, [Springfield, Ill., Thomas [1960] )
Notice the the straight contour along the top of the skull of the image to the left. The Egyptian crania tend to rise near the top. The skull of Amenhotep III is represented by the dotted lines.
According to the standards of Gill et al. in "Craniofacial Variation in Forensic Race Identification," (IN: Forensic osteology : advances in the identification of human. Kathleen J. Reichs (ed.); [Springfield, Ill., U.S.A. : Thomas, 1986), a receding chin is typical of the "Negroid phenotype." The Caucasoid chin appears more rounded, with a pear-type shape in lateral view, bilateral and prominent. The chin in persons of African descent is more commonly long and pointed downward with relatively straight lines. As it is usually far reduced from the upper dentition the receding appearance is strong. The following illustration shows a typical Caucasoid chin beside the ethchings of Amenhotep III and Tutankhamen.
Notice not only the receding sharp chin of the two Pharaohs on the right, but also the steep slope from the gonion to the menton along the mandible (the downward slope from the jaw to the chin). In comparison, the mandible of the skull on the left is much less inclined. (Rhine S. Non-metric skull racing. In: Gill GW and Rhine S (eds.): Skeletal attributes of race: Methods for forensic anthropology. Albuquerque, New Mexico: Maxwell Museum,1990;4:9-20; Kowalski CJ, Nasjleti CE, Walker GF. Differential diagnosis of adult make black and white populations. Angle Orthodontist 1974;44:346-350).
In addition to the abrubt vertical chin and sloping mandible, one can easily recognize the high degree of incisor protrusion found in Tutankhamen and Amenhotep III (see Kowalski et al.; RA Drummond. A determination of cephalometric norms for the Negro race. Am J Orthod 1968;54:670-682).
The illustration below clearly shows the inclined mandibles; protruding incisors; prognathism and sharp, receding chins of the Pharaohs. The two vertical lines on the left figure show the prognathism of the maxilla and mandible, and receding chin of Thutmose IV. The two innermost lines on the right drawing display the strongly receding chin and alveolar prognathism of Tutankhamen. The two outer lines show the maxillary and mandibular prognathism of Amenhoteop III. The latter's chin is also mostly receding although the pogonion does manner to intersect the plane of A point.
Also noticeable in the heads of Thutmose IV and Amenhotep III are the mildly projecting glabellas (the small lump just above the nose and between the brows). These show some relation to the Nubian remains found at Wadi al-Halfa and the SMU sites in Nubia/Sudan.
The image above displays the unusual occipital region of these three Pharaohs. There are upper and lower eminences and the contour is very flattened causing sharp angles. Both ancient and modern Africans often possessed "occipital buns" produced by the flattening of the lambonoid region. Such examples were found at many old Nubian and Sudanese sites. Possibly this shape of the occiput is derived from the occipital bun, or it could be only coincidently similar in some ways.
From the examination of these images, we can see that Thutmose IV, Tutankhamen and Amenhotep III possessed strong tropical African affinity.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Yes of course orthogonal traits can be found in Africa, comes in the form of Elongated Africans, adapting to a hot dry climate.
Not really. There are millions of Africans who are not of the so-called "elongated Africans" groupings.
Define orthogonality as a roughly 90 degree angle measurement from forehead to chin. This is easily discernible by just inspecting a profile. So to take 2 well-viewed African personalities who have clearly orthogonal profiles: Robert Mugabe and Moises Kibaki(Kenya president)
But you are right when you say that the generic AE profile cuts a less than 90 degree profile. In other words, the average AE was prognathous.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: How does that threaten national security? Is it a strategic military advantage? It cripples the national economy somehow? Does it destroy the infrastructure? Can it topple the government? Loosen the borders? What?
Perhaps all these things if word gets out that the Pharaohs were black Africans! LOLPosts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Just call us Africans (I mean what would ol' unka Shishaq say?). Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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Aug. 15, 2008 -- Ongoing analysis on the mummified remains of two female fetuses buried in the tomb of Tutankhamun will most likely show that at least one of the stillborn children is the offspring of the teenage pharaoh, a scientist who carried serological analysis on the mummified remains told Discovery News.
"I studied one of the mummies, the larger one, back in 1979 [and] determined the blood group data from this baby mummy and compared it with my 1969 blood grouping of Tutankhamun.
"The results confirmed that this larger fetus could indeed be the daughter of Tutankhamen," said Robert Connolly, senior lecturer in physical anthropology from the University of Liverpool's Department of Human Anatomy and Cell Biology.
The fetuses have been stored at the Cairo University's Faculty of Medicine since archaeologist Howard Carter first discovered them in Tutankhamun's tomb on the west bank of Luxor, Egypt in 1922.
Egyptologists have long debated whether these mummies were the stillborn children of King Tut and his wife Ankhesenamun or if they were placed in the tomb with the symbolic purpose of allowing the boy king to live as newborns in the afterlife.
Never publicly displayed, the two fetuses will soon undergo CT scans and DNA testing to determine possible diseases and their relation to the famous pharaoh, and possibly "identify the fetuses' mother," Zahi Hawass, the head of Egypt's Supreme Council of Antiquities, said in a statement.
"This is a very important project, as these fetuses have never been fully studied," Swiss anatomist and paleopathologist Frank Rühli told Discovery News.
The smaller fetus, about five months in gestational age, has only been examined by Carter in 1925. The mummy is less than 30 centimeters (11.8 inches) in height and is well preserved, according to Rühli.
Rühli, head of the Swiss Mummy Project at the University of Zurich, added that the mummy showed no signs of brain removal or abdominal incision, the umbilical cord was still there, and a funerary mask was still in place.
The older, larger fetus is estimated to be between seven and nine months in gestational age. It is less well preserved than the other and measures 38.5 centimeters (15.16 inches).
"The mummy was subjected to X-rays in 1978 and a number of skeletal malformations were observed," Rühli said
At that time, Connolly and British scientist Ronald Harrison, along with colleagues from Cairo University, suggested that the older stillborn fetus displayed what could have been the earliest evidence of Sprengel's deformity, a relatively rare and congenital skeletal disorder where a scapula sits too high on one side.
Moreover, the female mummy was diagnosed with a vertebral dislocation, spina bifida and scoliosis. Now Connolly is less certain about those conclusions.
"I did publish a paper with Harrison and others in which we suggested Sprengel's disease. However, recently I have concluded that the elevated clavicle was simply a result of manipulation of the baby during mummification," Connolly said.
He is also cautions about the diagnosis of spina bifida, and suggests a more accurate examination of the body could yield other explanations.
So who were these stillborn girls? Why were they buried with King Tut? Was the boy king their dad? And what was their cause of death?
Hawass believes that DNA tests might help solve this riddle and even more mysteries around King Tut. The fetuses might help identify "the lineage and the family of King Tutankhamun, particularly his parents," he said.
Tutankhamun's lineage has piqued the curiosity of Egyptologists ever since his mummy and treasure-packed tomb were discovered.
It is unclear if King Tut was the son of Kiya and the "heretic" pharaoh Akhenaton, or of Akhenaton's other wife, the famously-beautiful queen Nefertiti.
Only a few facts about King Tut's life are known. King Tut-ankh-Amun, meaning "the living image of Amun," ascended the throne in 1333 B.C., at the age of nine, and reigned until his death at about 19. He was a pharaoh of the 18th Dynasty, probably the greatest of the Egyptian royal families.
He married 13-year-old Ankhesenpaaten, Nefertiti's daughter, on his accession to the throne.
Although many diseases have been attributed to the teenage king, the 2005 CT scan suggests he was a mostly healthy young man with no signs of childhood malnutrition.
"I strongly believe he was fertile," Rühli, a member of the small Egyptian-led research team that examined King Tut's CT scan images in 2005, said.
Indeed, many scholars believe that the fetuses are the stillborn children of King Tut and Ankhesenpaaten, who had changed her name to Ankhesenamun.
If so, DNA analysis on the fetuses could help determine whether Ankhesenamun was King Tut's half-sister or full sister.
"If the fetus DNA matches King Tut's DNA and Ankhesenamun's DNA, then they shared the same mother," Hawass said.
In their 1979 research, Harrison and Connolly also analyzed blood types to try and determine how the fetuses fit into the relationship of King Tut and other Pharaohs of the 18th Dynasty.
According to the 30-year-old analysis, the stillborn children may have been the baby daughters either of King Tut and Ankhesenamun, or Pharaoh Amenhotep III and his wife (and most likely his daughter) Sitamun, or Pharoahs Tutankhamun or Smenkhkare (a predecessor of King Tut) and Sitamun.
"I am pretty sure the fetuses were Ankhesenamen's," Egyptologist and paleopathologist Bob Brier, one of the world's foremost experts on mummies, told Discovery News.
Connolly agrees: "Since these two fetuses were found in the tomb of Tutankhamen, there is no reason to think that they were other than his offspring, a matter supported by my 1979 blood group studies."
The two fetuses will be studied at a new ancient DNA lab opening at Cairo University to supplement research at a similar lab created at the Egyptian Museum, with funding from the Discovery Channel.
The DNA tests and CT scans should be finished by December.
posted
^ The two fetuses had to have been his children. The whole explanation of them serving as Tut's rebirth into the afterlife as babies is just really lame and silly. You don't bury dead babies with a dead king unless it's his children.
Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
The more Hawass and his history thugs keep acting so secretive about the DNA results...the more people will look at them as having an agenda. Why else would they act so hush-hush and say it's a matter of "national security?" Unless they want certain findings to remain unknown.
This confirms what people like us have been saying about him and Egyptology as a whole for years now.
Posts: 1219 | From: North Carolina, USA | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ The two fetuses had to have been his children. The whole explanation of them serving as Tut's rebirth into the afterlife as babies is just really lame and silly. You don't bury dead babies with a dead king unless it's his children.
Well the report says they were fetuses, and if thats true..those two poor babies were miscarriages, really sad Posts: 447 | From: Somewhere son... | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by King_Scorpion: The more Hawass and his history thugs keep acting so secretive about the DNA results...the more people will look at them as having an agenda. Why else would they act so hush-hush and say it's a matter of "national security?" Unless they want certain findings to remain unknown.
This confirms what people like us have been saying about him and Egyptology as a whole for years now.
Lol everything aint a conspiracy
But have they even said that they came up with official results (Haplogroup) from the DNA studies?
Posts: 447 | From: Somewhere son... | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
I knew I had a reason not to like that dude Hawass, I respect his passion for Egyptology, but not his lies. And he has the nerve to call himself a scientist, please. Whats the big security for?
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quote:Originally posted by King_Scorpion: The more Hawass and his history thugs keep acting so secretive about the DNA results...the more people will look at them as having an agenda. Why else would they act so hush-hush and say it's a matter of "national security?" Unless they want certain findings to remain unknown.
This confirms what people like us have been saying about him and Egyptology as a whole for years now.
Lol everything aint a conspiracy
But have they even said that they came up with official results (Haplogroup) from the DNA studies?
I'm not saying it's a conspiracy. But when you only want handpicked persons (no doubt favorable to your POV) conducting the DNA tests (no foreigners). You don't release any results. Not even to say it was inconclusive. It leaves people scratching their heads that you don't want DNA evidence being released that could "rewrite the history books" as the article above says. We all know HawASS doesn't believe the Ancient Egyptians were Black in any way. DNA results PROVING a genetic origin only shared by Blacks would destroy the White/Semitic Egyptian myth once and for all.
Even though it has already been partially proven...because we know they carried E3b. That's why groups like National Geographic are trying to take E3b out of Africa...or say it's semitic (or however the hell they're trying to cover it up).
Posts: 1219 | From: North Carolina, USA | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:I'm not saying it's a conspiracy. But when you only want handpicked persons (no doubt favorable to your POV) conducting the DNA tests (no foreigners). You don't release any results.
...invalidates the procedure as science.
It means that only information favorable to Hawass polemicisms can ever be made public.
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quote:I'm not saying it's a conspiracy. But when you only want handpicked persons (no doubt favorable to your POV) conducting the DNA tests (no foreigners). You don't release any results.
...invalidates the procedure as science.
It means that only information favorable to Hawass polemicisms can ever be made public.
Indeed, as we saw when the results from the pyramid workers, matched with modern Egyptians, which showed genetic continuity. The guy Hawass was extremely ecstatic, and repeated this daily. If the results would have fit to his agenda the results would've been released already, Guaranteed.
Btw, what were the haplotypes found from the pyramid workers, which proved genetic continuity?
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:I'm not saying it's a conspiracy. But when you only want handpicked persons (no doubt favorable to your POV) conducting the DNA tests (no foreigners). You don't release any results.
...invalidates the procedure as science.
It means that only information favorable to Hawass polemicisms can ever be made public.
Indeed, as we saw when the results from the pyramid workers, matched with modern Egyptians, which showed genetic continuity. The guy Hawass was extremely ecstatic, and repeated this daily. If the results would have fit to his agenda the results would've been released already, Guaranteed.
Btw, what were the haplotypes found from the pyramid workers, which proved genetic continuity?
But this could make a lot of sense and their are scenarios in which this is basically true. This would be like saying Pre-Colombian population of North America basically shows genetic continuity with the modern day population of the United States.* *The fine print of course would be that you have to go to an Native American Reservation to find such populations. It all word play and politics: 'They are not Africans even though Egypt is in Africa'
They shoot this of a lot basically saying the population is the same. They never say WHICH population.
Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
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quote:I'm not saying it's a conspiracy. But when you only want handpicked persons (no doubt favorable to your POV) conducting the DNA tests (no foreigners). You don't release any results.
...invalidates the procedure as science.
It means that only information favorable to Hawass polemicisms can ever be made public.
Indeed, as we saw when the results from the pyramid workers, matched with modern Egyptians, which showed genetic continuity. The guy Hawass was extremely ecstatic, and repeated this daily. If the results would have fit to his agenda the results would've been released already, Guaranteed.
Btw, what were the haplotypes found from the pyramid workers, which proved genetic continuity?
But this could make a lot of sense and their are scenarios in which this is basically true. This would be like saying Pre-Colombian population of North America basically shows genetic continuity with the modern day population of the United States.* *The fine print of course would be that you have to go to an Native American Reservation to find such populations. It all word play and politics: 'They are not Africans even though Egypt is in Africa'
They shoot this of a lot basically saying the population is the same. They never say WHICH population.
True. And has that test even been released? Or do we just have Hawass's word to take for it? Or maybe he just released it to a few key people...not publicly?
Posts: 1219 | From: North Carolina, USA | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by King_Scorpion: The more Hawass and his history thugs keep acting so secretive about the DNA results...the more people will look at them as having an agenda. Why else would they act so hush-hush and say it's a matter of "national security?" Unless they want certain findings to remain unknown.
This confirms what people like us have been saying about him and Egyptology as a whole for years now.
Lol everything aint a conspiracy
But have they even said that they came up with official results (Haplogroup) from the DNA studies?
I'm not saying it's a conspiracy. But when you only want handpicked persons (no doubt favorable to your POV) conducting the DNA tests (no foreigners). You don't release any results. Not even to say it was inconclusive. It leaves people scratching their heads that you don't want DNA evidence being released that could "rewrite the history books" as the article above says. We all know HawASS doesn't believe the Ancient Egyptians were Black in any way. DNA results PROVING a genetic origin only shared by Blacks would destroy the White/Semitic Egyptian myth once and for all.
Even though it has already been partially proven...because we know they carried E3b. That's why groups like National Geographic are trying to take E3b out of Africa...or say it's semitic (or however the hell they're trying to cover it up).
Trust me. Hawass is nothing but a sell out and this "Egyptian only" research is B.S. It bought and paid for by WESTERN media and therefore CONTROLLED by them. The whole INSTITUTION of Egyptology was created for and by WEALTHY WHITE industrialists in a cabal with white Turkish and Arab ruling elites who allowed them to take what they wanted from the country in the 17th and 18th century. Then after the country was CONQUERED the Europeans simply took what they wanted. It was only after the discovery of King tut's tomb that Egypt suddenly got some back bone and started standing up for their own rights. Howard Carter and his financial backers had every intent of taking ALL of Tut's treasure back to Europe and into private collections. From the very beginning wealthy whites like the Rockefellers, Gettys and other industrialists have been financing expeditions to bring back artifacts for their PRIVATE collections, SOME of which they gave to Museums. MOST of Egypt's modern digs and excavations are STILL financed by Western financiers and industrialists, via endowments to the major academic research institutions . And with this money comes control, which means that the antics of Hawass are bought and paid for by Western money. MOST of the stuff you see on T.V. is designed to please WHITES, not Egyptians and not Arabs. And it is like that for a reason. You got to pay the cost to be the boss and so even though whites have taken a back seat in the public eye, they still got control over Egyptology as an institution. Most degree programs on Ancient Egypt are in Western countries. Most museums and other institutions in Egypt are funded by WESTERN money. The Most Egyptian Artifacts are in Western countries (in and out of public view). Most T.V. shows, books and magazines on ancient Egypt are done by WESTERN countries. All this is to promote Egypt as an extension of Western culture and history and NOT Egyptians.
quote: There are times when indiscretion is the better part of diplomacy. No one knows it better than Professor James Henry Breasted, celebrated Egyptologist of the University of Chicago.
For six months he had been trying quietly to persuade the Egyptian government to accept a large number of John Davison Rockefeller Jr.'s dollars for a museum to house the relics that diggers of all nations are constantly extracting from the soil of the oldest nation. Mr. Rockefeller had written King Fuad a personal letter, and Professor Breasted was there to back it up.
Proud Egyptian nationalists had maintained a muttering opposition. Sensitive Egyptian government archeologists had been afraid it would cast a slur on their efficiency, as they had felt when Carter and Carnarvon entered Luxor. Egyptian liberals, Egyptian scholars and King Fuad were of course quite overcome with astonished gratitude and eagerness, but they could not offend the mutterers, and an amazing bit of munificence hung fire because of a hitch at the receiving end.
So last week Professor Breasted was indiscreet. He announced Mr. Rockefeller's offer prematurely, that is, before Egypt's acceptance was certain. The figure announced was the exceedingly plump one of ten millions. So swift and sweeping was public enthusiasm that the opposition could but dwindle. King Fuad waited to compose his reply, but a Rockefeller architect, fresh from Cairo, declared that all was well, that plans were already being draughted for two one-story buildings to stand on the island of Gezira, opposite Cairo's richest residential quarter. These are to cost about five and a half millions, the balance of the gift being banked to maintain them.
Some of the nationalist opposition to Mr. Rockefeller's gift was excited by his stipulation that the museum be for 30 years under an international directorate of scientists, headed by Professor Breasted.
quote: For more than a decade, academia has been enthralled by critical theory, setting out to demonstrate that concepts such as nation, society, and personality are all social constructs rather than being valid characterizations. Mitchell brings this approach to his work on recent Middle East socioeconomic history. But what a difference between his writing and the usual turgid tomes from the critical theory school: he is engaging, even when theorizing. He brings rural Egyptian society to life in this set of nine essays. Three chapters on the pre-1950 era cover the 1940's malaria epidemic, the 1900's cadastral survey, and the development of landed property law. The middle three chapters, mostly about the mid-century period, critically analyze how academics view three issues: peasants, the use of force in politics, and Egypt's past. The final three chapters sharply attack the economic reforms of the 1990s for enriching the wealthy at the expense of the poor and for misunderstanding or misrepresenting how Egyptian agriculture functions.
That said, Mitchell's leftist politics and theoretical framework intrude all too frequently on what would otherwise be a good book. He goes off on the occasional conspiratorial rant, for instance, when he speculates that Richard Critchfield, the author of a study about Egyptian peasants which he rips apart, may have been doing the bidding of the CIA because his brother James was a long-time CIA officer. And Mitchell has some particularly strange images; he writes that capitalism "survives parasitically, like the Plasmodium falciparum [which causes malaria], taking up residence in human bodies and minds, or in sugarcane or private property, drawing its energy from the chemistry of others, its force from other fields, its momentum from others' desires." To be sure, he occasionally makes a worthwhile point for his side, for instance, that political violence has been a much more common feature of Egyptian socioeconomic life than has been acknowledged by politicians, businessmen, or most academics. But still, what a shame that such scholarship, facility with the written word, and detailed knowledge of Egyptian society are marred by ideological fixations.
quote: "The ancient-DNA world goes by a very stringent set of criteria. ... One of the biggest is replication by an independent lab," Corthals said. "If you don't do it, particularly with something so famous as this mummy, no peer review journal will publish it.
"And if you don't get it published in a peer review journal, as a scientist, you haven't done anything," she said.
Hawass says he is trying to get a second DNA lab set up in Egypt. The first $5 million lab, funded by the Discovery Channel, is the centerpiece of an ambitious plan to identify mummies and re-examine the royal mummy collection.
The process is time-consuming, especially for a new lab with scientists who have little experience with mummy DNA. It takes three days just to extract the delicate DNA; then scientists must spend at least three more days completing one test on one sample. Months are needed to make a finding.
During a recent tour of the lab by an Associated Press reporter, Gad was not firm on how much more time is needed to complete initial tests on Hatshepsut, saying only that he was "nearly there."
The Discovery Channel paid for the current lab in exchange for exclusive rights to film the search for the Hatshepsut mummy. Hawass said he's offering other companies a similar deal: the rights to film a highly coveted expedition — possibly the search for King Tut's family — in exchange for a second lab.
"This is how I use TVs to bring technology here," he said during an interview in his Cairo office. He added that he has had nibbles about a deal, but would not elaborate.
Hawass has ambitious plans for DNA testing in Egypt, including examining all the royal mummies and the nearly two dozen unidentified mummies stored in the Egyptian Museum. He believes DNA tests will show that some royal mummies on display are not who archaeologists thought they were.
One example is the mummy of Thutmose I, Hatshepsut's father, found in the late 19th century amid the ancient sites in Luxor. But further investigation discovered that the mummy was too young to be Thutmose I, who died in his 50s, Hawass said.
"I really do believe that the Egyptian mummy project is going to be very important in revealing lots of secrets," he said.
In other words they better find some spectacular evidence that the ancient pharaohs were white for the American financiers or risk loosing funding. It isn't so much that Hawass wouldn't announce the result because of national security. It is because the Discovery channel and the other Westerners can't make SPECIAL PROGRAMS promoting a bunch of hype about the discovery that these pharaohs were black. This whole exercise is about drumming up excitement and enthusiasm for ancient Egypt among WESTERN COUNTRIES, where these programs are produced, NOT EGYPT, the "Middle East" or Africa. They couldn't care less about that. That is why it isn't being announced, because these foreign media outlets probably have the rights to broadcast and publicize it.
quote: Mysteries of the Mummies
Why do exhibitions of Egyptian artifacts tend to be so popular with audiences? Perhaps it is because Ancient Egypt is one of the earliest civilizations about which we have a substantial body of information. Maybe the fascination hails from the heroicized accounts of 19th-century tomb excavations or the recent debates about ownership of cultural property. In part, it is the sense of mystery surrounding this complex society that developed more than 5,000 years ago-bolstered by pop culture myths of mummies' curses that keeps visitors enthralled by displays of all things Egyptian. The recent acquisition of a collection of Egyptian artifacts by the Michael C. Carlos Museum (MCCM), Emory University, Atlanta, began with an aura of mystery that engaged the Atlanta community.
The adventure began in the fall of 1998, when an anonymous entrepreneur from Canada announced he was selling a group of Egyptian objects for $2 million. He had recently purchased the collections of the Niagara Falls Museum, a small private museum in Niagara Falls, Ontario. The Egyptian objects had been on display there for more than 100 years, yet they were rarely studied, poorly documented, and never published; few people in the Atlanta community would have known of their existence. Still, the Egyptian collection was known, if only by reputation, among ancient art specialists as an assortment of mummies and funerary items rarely seen outside of Egypt. Peter Lacovara, curator of ancient art at the Carlos Museum, recognized the importance of the collection when a colleague from the Royal Ontario Museum informed him of its availability.
quote: For over ten years, California State University, San Bernardino has brought art, culture and the treasures of ancient Egypt to the Inland Empire. With nearly 10,000 annual visitors, the Robert V. Fullerton Art Museum serves one of the fastestgrowing regions in Southern California and displays one of the finest collections of ancient Egyptian antiquities west of the Mississippi.
Originally established as the University Art Gallery in the late 1960’s, the Fullerton Art Museum opened its doors to the public in 1996. Its purpose: to develop, preserve, research, and display its permanent collection and to organize a variety of temporary exhibitions accompanied by welldesigned programs and events.
quote: Cesnola died in 1904. The next day a new era began for the Met when famed banker J. Pierpont Morgan was named president of the corporation. With Sir Caspar Purdon Clarke serving as the museum's director, succeeded by his assistant Edward Robinson in 1910, the Met began to grow into a world-class organization supported by a strong professional staff. The publication of the Metropolitan Museum Bulletin began in 1905, and the Egyptian and Classical Departments were organized, as well as the Department of Decorative Arts. Over time other departments were spun off: Arms and Armor in 1912; Far Eastern Art in 1915; the American Wing in 1924; Near Eastern Art in 1932; and Medieval Art in 1933. Morgan was instrumental in naming other prominent millionaires to vacant board positions, an act that proved crucial as annual operating costs almost doubled to $362,000 during the eight years he served as president before his death in 1913. To make up the Met's budget deficit, Morgan simply bullied the board into making contributions. Despite his devotion to the museum, however, he left it no money in his will. A large portion of his wealth, which amounted to far less than anyone suspected, was tied up in his art collections. Much of Morgan's art was sold off to satisfy inheritance tax and other liabilities, and in the end just 40 percent came to the museum, albeit one of the most valuable bequests ever made to the Met.
The Met accumulated art at such a pace during the Morgan era that by 1915 the amount of city appropriations to maintain the collections had failed to keep pace, forcing the museum to turn to the public to raise additional funds. Nevertheless, the Met was able to acquire a considerable number of treasures that came available during the turbulence of World War I.
quote: J. Paul Getty The oil baron who left Los Angeles a world-class museum December 16, 1997 Web posted at: 4:19 p.m. EST (2119 GMT)
From CNN Correspondent Jennifer Auther
LOS ANGELES (CNN) -- When J. Paul Getty died in 1976, he left 4 million shares of Getty Oil stock to his Malibu, California, museum -- shares valued at about $700 million. Some of his heirs contested, and by the time the estate settled in 1982, the bequest had swelled to $1.2 billion, more than enough to launch the Getty Center in Los Angeles.
Getty was born in Minneapolis in 1892. At one time or another before his death 21 years ago, Getty was called a miserly recluse, an eccentric billionaire, and a so-so art collector. In a sense, all of those are true -- but the man whose legacy is now the $1 billion Getty Center wanted to be remembered for being "well-rounded."
Getty graduated Oxford in 1913, and two years later cut perhaps the best deal of his life: For $500, he bought half interest in a land lease in Oklahoma -- for land rich in oil. Getty, taking over his father's oil company, was a millionaire by the time he reached 24.
As a young man, Getty began collecting art, with no visions of being a major player. His first significant purchase was a 17th century Dutch landscape. He paid $1,100 for it in 1930. It was the start of a multi-million dollar collection.
"I purposely kept away from modern art," Getty once said of his collection, "defining modern art as art of the last 30 or 40 years."
Another early and definitive acquisition was the Lansdowne Herakles, a Roman marble copy of the Greek original from the 4th century B.C.
"I've always been interested in Greek sculpture," he said. "And I think some of my sculptures are what I value most."
Along with his treasured sculptures, Getty's interest in French decorative art led to a collection second to none in the United States.
"What I could do if I could only find some one ready to invest a few thousand in my scientific work!" - J.H. Breasted
Just as President Harper and John D. Rockefeller, Sr. made grand plans that culminated in the establishment of The University of Chicago, the younger generation, Breasted and John D. Rockefeller, Jr., joined forces. Breasted had long been known to the Rockefeller family. A letter from Mrs. Rockefeller indicates that Breasted's enormously successful textbook Ancient Times, was standard bedtime reading for the children of the New York household.
Officially, the two men came into contact in 1919 when Breasted applied to the General Education Fund, a Rockefeller-supported agency, for monies to undertake a survey of the Near East and for the endowment of a research institute.
Breasted's proposal brought the first of more than one million dollars in grants awarded personally by Rockefeller and resulted in the establishment of an institute at The University of Chicago dedicated solely to the study of the ancient Near East. The younger Rockefeller led the way in donations, and, in 1919, Martin Ryerson, the President of the Board of Trustees of The University of Chicago, approved the formation of "The Oriental Institute" to be housed in the Haskell Oriental Museum.
Envisioned as a "laboratory for the study of the rise and development of civilization," The Oriental Institute was devoted to Breasted's quest to trace ancient man's "progress" toward civilization and to document the steps in the development of ancient cultures of the Near East.
The First Expedition of 1919-20, undertaken with the initial Rockefeller grant, was to have a profound impact upon the direction and character of the new Oriental Institute. In the course of the survey, Breasted and his colleagues selected sites for excavations over the next decade and a half, and purchased hundreds of significant antiquities to add to the collection of the museum. A decade later, Breasted wrote to his benefactor, "Your support and encouragement have enabled me to accomplish things for science which I never dreamed were possible."
quote:Originally posted by Burhan: For reasons of national security, DNA test results of Egyptian mummies are usually kept confidential. Some scholars conjecture that full disclosure of the research's findings could lead to a major revision of the country's ancient dynastic history.
The phrase "For reasons of national security...", says it all. The Arab specialists (so-called) in Africa can only survive by concealing, lying, stealing and cheating. One almost wishes they knew what few of us already know about the inevitability of Black Africa's position in African in the near and coming future. They would've quickly found ways the make the results like this known. Lack of foresight will cause racists to implode in their own blissful ignorance. I can't wait. There is going to be exciting major developments.
Posts: 213 | From: New York City, USA | Registered: Sep 2007
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Replica of King Tutankhamen bust. (Credit: iStockphoto/Greg Nicholas)
ScienceDaily (Sep. 4, 2008) — Two fetuses found in the tomb of Tutankhamen may have been twins and were very likely to have been the children of the teenage Pharaoh, according to the anatomist who first studied the mummified remains of the young King in the 1960s.
Robert Connolly, who is working with the Egyptian authorities to analyse the mummified remains of Tutankhamen and the two stillborn children, will discuss the new findings at the Pharmacy and Medicine in Ancient Egypt Conference at The University of Manchester on September 1, 2008.
Mr Connolly says: "The work carried out by Catherine Hellier in Norway and I suggests that the two fetuses in the tomb of Tutankhamen could be twins despite their very different size and thus fit better as a single pregnancy for his young wife. This increases the likelihood of them being Tutankhamen's children.
"I studied one of the mummies, the larger one, back in 1979, determined the blood group data from this baby mummy and compared it with my 1969 blood grouping of Tutankhamen. The results confirmed that this larger fetus could indeed be the daughter of Tutankhamen.
"Now we believe that they are twins and they were both his children. The forthcoming DNA study on them by Dr Zahi Hawass's group in Egypt will contribute another key piece to this question."
Mr Connolly, Senior Lecturer in Physical Anthropology at the University of Liverpool's Department of Human Anatomy and Cell Biology, adds: "It is a very exciting finding which will not only paint a more detailed picture of this famous young King's life and death, it will also tell us more about his lineage."
More than 100 delegates from 10 countries, including the Director of the Cultural Bureau of the Egyptian Embassy in the UK and researchers from Egypt's Conservation of Medicinal Plants project in Sinai and the British Museum, are attending the conference, hosted by the KNH Centre for Biomedical Egyptology at The University of Manchester, in conjunction with the National Research Centre in Cairo, Egypt, and sponsored by The Leverhulme Trust.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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Today there are blonds every where after the European pollution but if you want to know what original people were, you must examine their remains before cross breeding
Blond / Blue eye Jews.. tee hee, they have no connection to the Asian/African races that all Israelites were composed of.
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718: Indeed, as we saw when the results from the pyramid workers, matched with modern Egyptians, which showed genetic continuity. The guy Hawass was extremely ecstatic, and repeated this daily. If the results would have fit to his agenda the results would've been released already, Guaranteed.
Btw, what were the haplotypes found from the pyramid workers, which proved genetic continuity?
This is exactly what I've been saying ever since Hawass came out with the conclusions of that genetic study! Exactly what are the specifics of the study??-- What chromosomes and what loci etc?
By the way, have any of you seen what some of the laborers from modern Giza look like?
Here is one example:
quote:Originally posted by astenb: But this could make a lot of sense and their are scenarios in which this is basically true. This would be like saying Pre-Colombian population of North America basically shows genetic continuity with the modern day population of the United States.* *The fine print of course would be that you have to go to an Native American Reservation to find such populations. It all word play and politics: 'They are not Africans even though Egypt is in Africa'
They shoot this of a lot basically saying the population is the same. They never say WHICH population.
Actually Astenb, the historical population situation of Egypt is quite different from that of North America. Unlike North America where the native populations were largley displaced through genocide or forced removal, Egypt's native African population was not displaced at all but merely intermixed with and absorbed by foreign populations. Thus the lies of Hawass and his ilk are more clever..
When they say that there is 'genetic continuity' between ancient Egypt and modern Egypt they are correct but only partially so:
^ Note how indigenous African (E) lineages are found in significant frequency in northern Egypt among so-called 'Arab' Egyptians at that! Thus Hawass and many other Egyptian fools (including some that have visited this forum in the past) will get to promulgate their lie based on a half-truth that modern Egyptians are "the same" as ancient Egyptians, while ignoring the obvious historical and biological fact of foreign genetic influence.
Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Doug M: Trust me. Hawass is nothing but a sell out and this "Egyptian only" research is B.S. It bought and paid for by WESTERN media and therefore CONTROLLED by them. The whole INSTITUTION of Egyptology was created for and by WEALTHY WHITE industrialists in a cabal with white Turkish and Arab ruling elites who allowed them to take what they wanted from the country in the 17th and 18th century. Then after the country was CONQUERED the Europeans simply took what they wanted. It was only after the discovery of King tut's tomb that Egypt suddenly got some back bone and started standing up for their own rights. Howard Carter and his financial backers had every intent of taking ALL of Tut's treasure back to Europe and into private collections. From the very beginning wealthy whites like the Rockefellers, Gettys and other industrialists have been financing expeditions to bring back artifacts for their PRIVATE collections, SOME of which they gave to Museums. MOST of Egypt's modern digs and excavations are STILL financed by Western financiers and industrialists, via endowments to the major academic research institutions . And with this money comes control, which means that the antics of Hawass are bought and paid for by Western money. MOST of the stuff you see on T.V. is designed to please WHITES, not Egyptians and not Arabs. And it is like that for a reason. You got to pay the cost to be the boss and so even though whites have taken a back seat in the public eye, they still got control over Egyptology as an institution. Most degree programs on Ancient Egypt are in Western countries. Most museums and other institutions in Egypt are funded by WESTERN money. The Most Egyptian Artifacts are in Western countries (in and out of public view). Most T.V. shows, books and magazines on ancient Egypt are done by WESTERN countries. All this is to promote Egypt as an extension of Western culture and history and NOT Egyptians.
OK. Tell us something we don't know! LOL
Oh and I've said it before and I'll say it again, the guy (Hawass) is truly in denial. He vehemently spoke out in several occasions why the ancient Egyptians weren't black saying that they had "different features from the 'negro'"! Obviously a person who truly subscribes to the "true negro/sambo" race crap! At the same time, these programs he is featured in would show the painted images and in tombs which obviously depict very dark-skinned i.e. 'black' peoples. In the program 'Egypt's Golden Empire' he talked about the painted bust of Tiye and how it depicts a strong tough woman, and we've all seen that bust! LMAO
quote:From: http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/2007-12-22-ancientdna_N.htm ...In other words they better find some spectacular evidence that the ancient pharaohs were white for the American financiers or risk loosing funding. It isn't so much that Hawass wouldn't announce the result because of national security. It is because the Discovery channel and the other Westerners can't make SPECIAL PROGRAMS promoting a bunch of hype about the discovery that these pharaohs were black. This whole exercise is about drumming up excitement and enthusiasm for ancient Egypt among WESTERN COUNTRIES, where these programs are produced, NOT EGYPT, the "Middle East" or Africa. They couldn't care less about that. That is why it isn't being announced, because these foreign media outlets probably have the rights to broadcast and publicize it.
Doug, you truly believe this to be the goal of Hawass's financers?! I mean, the whole scenerio you describe sounds like a pyschotic suicide!! (then again, one could say that is the very mentality of Eurocentrists especially the likes of 'Debunked')
This is the equivalent of group of people financing an operation to prove that the world is flat by providing a naval expedition to sail to the "edge of the world", and so this group awaits the results of the explorers they sent! LOL
It seems these folks have got themselves trapped in a rather dire predicament. They provided funding for a project in the hopes of making new scientific, specifically genetic, discoveries of the objects of their obsession-- ancient Egyptians. Yet this means uncovering knowledge that destroys their own Eurocentric premises. And poor Hawass their lapdog is left to what?.. Take the 'blame'??
Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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I believe what Doug is saying is true. I have always felt this way, Egyptology, Greek studies and so on and so forth is often funded by whites and western countries, but we have to look at where the funding began. It is not relatively new, it began in very racist times (not that we aren't in them) where people held the common belief that Egyptians were white, and Egypt was always taught from a white perspective.
Posts: 105 | From: Japan | Registered: Jan 2008
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^ Actually most white racists (except a lunatic few) did not claim the Egyptians do be really 'white' in the sense of Europeans. Most lay people up to this day assumed ancient Egyptians looked like stereotypical 'Middle-Eastern'/'Arab' people. The Egyptologists and other scholars who knew better from first hand observation of ancient depictions rather went with the popular notion of the time that they were black but still "caucasoid".
Today there seems to be a trend among most Egyptologists that ancient Egyptians were "mixed" or a "melting-pot" which like many elaborate and popular lies is based on half-truth as well as politically correct liberal nonsense. Oh and Hawass and perhaps a few others like him have the notion that the Egyptians were their own special 'race' neither black nor Middle Eastern but still "caucasoid"! LOLPosts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Doug, you truly believe this to be the goal of Hawass's financers?! I mean, the whole scenerio you describe sounds like a pyschotic suicide!! (then again, one could say that is the very mentality of Eurocentrists especially the likes of 'Debunked')
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