posted
I recently read a book called When We Ruled, by R. WALKER. There was a hypnotic essay at the end by a F. SUPIYA that demonstrated, among other things, that Sumerian was related to Proto-Bantu and Niger-Congo. Has anybody else here read this essay? Is it plausible?
Anthony Clark
Posts: 6 | From: Bristol | Registered: Aug 2008
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posted
Anthony – We know that ALL language and people are derived from Africa, so of course it is plausible. But that doesn’t mean that this theory is necessarily correct. I believe that Clyde has argued that it is a Mande/Dravidian derived language; since he is the only one of us with a clue, it is hard to argue. But from an artifactual point of view, in my mind, all things point to the Grimaldi Khoisans in Anatolia. To me the artifacts show a clear association.
Note the similarities (especially the heads) in this female statue from Samarra 6,000 B.C. (in the old Assyrian region) and the statue from Hacilar Anatolia. You might also bear in mind that these two sites and cultures, are less than a thousand miles apart.
quote:Originally posted by anthony: I recently read a book called When We Ruled, by R. WALKER. There was a hypnotic essay at the end by a F. SUPIYA that demonstrated, among other things, that Sumerian was related to Proto-Bantu and Niger-Congo. Has anybody else here read this essay? Is it plausible?
Anthony Clark
Yes it is possible. The Sumerian language is closely related to the Mande Family of languages.
The Sumerians probably originated in Africa, and belonged to what I call the Proto-Saharan civilization. You can read about the Proto-Saharans--the Sumerian connection here.
posted
I don`t know whether you agree or not from your answer. Have you read the book Mike 111 because i was trying to getr opinions from people who read it.
Anthony
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Anthony – We know that ALL language and people are derived from Africa, so of course it is plausible. But that doesn’t mean that this theory is necessarily correct. I believe that Clyde has argued that it is a Mande/Dravidian derived language; since he is the only one of us with a clue, it is hard to argue. But from an artifactual point of view, in my mind, all things point to the Grimaldi Khoisans in Anatolia. To me the artifacts show a clear association.
Note the similarities (especially the heads) in this female statue from Samarra 6,000 B.C. (in the old Assyrian region) and the statue from Hacilar Anatolia. You might also bear in mind that these two sites and cultures, are less than a thousand miles apart.
posted
Clyde i read your articles thanks. But i didn`t know what to make of them. I have a friend who studies swaheli in london. i`l ask him what he thinks.
Anthony
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by anthony: I recently read a book called When We Ruled, by R. WALKER. There was a hypnotic essay at the end by a F. SUPIYA that demonstrated, among other things, that Sumerian was related to Proto-Bantu and Niger-Congo. Has anybody else here read this essay? Is it plausible?
Anthony Clark
Yes it is possible. The Sumerian language is closely related to the Mande Family of languages.
The Sumerians probably originated in Africa, and belonged to what I call the Proto-Saharan civilization. You can read about the Proto-Saharans--the Sumerian connection here.
quote:Originally posted by Egblemaku: Anthony: "I have not read the essay, but until I get it, could you please give us a sketch of Supiya's demonstration?
Thanks in advance,"
Sabalour, i`m not sure i know enough to be able to pull this off. i`l try and get supiya to come here and present what he wrote in essay. hope thats good enough.
Anthony
Posts: 6 | From: Bristol | Registered: Aug 2008
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posted
anthony - I’m Sorry, but I can't help you either. My reading and interest is limited to anthropology. My knowledge of languages is such; that I defer to others.
But even if it is true, I don’t know what it proves. We already know that Sumerians were Black people, and as such they were necessarily African. But beyond that, I don’t what other conclusions can be drawn. What I mean by that; is that English is spoken all over the world, by people of many ethnicities, but their only connection to Britain is that of language, and perhaps past rule.
But on the African/Sumerian connection: one thing that has always intrigued me, is the image of the Lullulbi on Naram Sin’s stele. To me they appear to be the stereotypical African warriors, so what were they doing there?
posted
i asked Fari to come here and present some evidence yesterday. i don`t know whether he`s coming but if he doesn`t you can find a defense of his sumerian-protobantu idea from bantuist critics at nigercongo@yahoogroups.com
quote:Originally posted by anthony:
quote:Originally posted by Egblemaku: Anthony: "I have not read the essay, but until I get it, could you please give us a sketch of Supiya's demonstration?
Thanks in advance,"
Sabalour, i`m not sure i know enough to be able to pull this off. i`l try and get supiya to come here and present what he wrote in essay. hope thats good enough.
Here are a few of my articles on Sumerian and African relations you may want to check out.
Winters, Clyde Ahmad, "The Proto-Culture of the Dravidians ,Manding and Sumerians", Tamil Civilization 3, no1 (March 1985a) ,pages 1-9.
Winters,Clyde Ahmad, "The genetic Unity between the Dravidian ,Elamite, Manding and Sumerian Languages", P Sixth ISAS ,1984, (Hong Kong:Asian Research Service,1985d) pages 1413-1425.
Winters,Clyde Ahmad, "The Dravidian and Manding Substratum in Tokharian",Central Asiatic Journal 32, nos1-2,(1988)pages 131-141.
Winters,Clyde Ahmad,"Tamil,Sumerian and Manding and the Genetic odel",International Journal of Dravidian Linguistics,18,(1989) nol.
Winters,Clyde (1994). Afrocentrism: A Valid Frame of Reference, Journal of Black Studies, 25(2):170-190.
quote:Originally posted by anthony: Clyde i read your articles thanks. But i didn`t know what to make of them. I have a friend who studies swaheli in london. i`l ask him what he thinks.
Anthony
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by anthony: I recently read a book called When We Ruled, by R. WALKER. There was a hypnotic essay at the end by a F. SUPIYA that demonstrated, among other things, that Sumerian was related to Proto-Bantu and Niger-Congo. Has anybody else here read this essay? Is it plausible?
Anthony Clark
Yes it is possible. The Sumerian language is closely related to the Mande Family of languages.
The Sumerians probably originated in Africa, and belonged to what I call the Proto-Saharan civilization. You can read about the Proto-Saharans--the Sumerian connection here.
quote:Originally posted by anthony: I recently read a book called When We Ruled, by R. WALKER. There was a hypnotic essay at the end by a F. SUPIYA that demonstrated, among other things, that Sumerian was related to Proto-Bantu and Niger-Congo. Has anybody else here read this essay? Is it plausible?
Anthony Clark
Sumerians was not related to Proto-Bantu. Bantu Africans don't have much or no history outside of Africa. The only history Bantus have is that of the Zulu and the Wall of Great Zimbabwe and that was primitive compare to other cultures. I read that book and I gave it away.
Posts: 2088 | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
Betty from the moment I saw your response I knew you were a supremacist but just to make sure i checked your other posts and they were just what i would expect - trying to imply black people are ugly etc. you ain`t read the book or else you`d know black people have the longest history.
Anthony Clark [/qb][/QUOTE]Sumerians was not related to Proto-Bantu. Bantu Africans don't have much or no history outside of Africa. The only history Bantus have is that of the Zulu and the Wall of Great Zimbabwe and that was primitive compare to other cultures. I read that book and I gave it away. [/QB][/QUOTE]
Posts: 6 | From: Bristol | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by anthony: Betty from the moment I saw your response I knew you were a supremacist but just to make sure i checked your other posts and they were just what i would expect - trying to imply black people are ugly etc. you ain`t read the book or else you`d know black people have the longest history.
Anthony Clark
Sumerians was not related to Proto-Bantu. Bantu Africans don't have much or no history outside of Africa. The only history Bantus have is that of the Zulu and the Wall of Great Zimbabwe and that was primitive compare to other cultures. I read that book and I gave it away. [/QB][/QUOTE] [/QB][/QUOTE]
You're an idiot. I know blacks have the longest history. I have read the book and I gave it away to 'Books for Africa'. Like I said, Banuts have no relationship or history with no one other than themselves. The only history Bantus have is that of the Zulu and Great Zimbabwe and it was primitive when compared to noble cultures. The Swahili culture became a bit noble when there was Asiatic and Islamic contact between the groups. It would be more convincing that Niger-Kordofan (non Bantu) or "Hamitic" and "Cushitic" groups are/was related to Sumerians. Bantus are not related to anyone except Bantus.
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quote:Originally posted by Alive-(What Box): ^Smart man. I don't think "Betty's" ever read anything on Africa
But I have! Bantus have no relationship with Sumerians. I would believe the Masaai had a relationship with ancient Sumerians before I believe any Bantu group had any relationship with any Asiatic group.
Posts: 2088 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by anthony: I recently read a book called When We Ruled, by R. WALKER. There was a hypnotic essay at the end by a F. SUPIYA that demonstrated, among other things, that Sumerian was related to Proto-Bantu and Niger-Congo. Has anybody else here read this essay? Is it plausible?
Anthony Clark
Sumerians was not related to Proto-Bantu. Bantu Africans don't have much or no history outside of Africa. The only history Bantus have is that of the Zulu and the Wall of Great Zimbabwe and that was primitive compare to other cultures. I read that book and I gave it away.
The Swahili were also Bantu and the Bantu speakers do have a history and it isn't primitive except by the standards of the racist whites who wrote history.
Posts: 2595 | From: Vicksburg | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
I'm beginning to think Bettyboo is yet another Hore/Hammer/American Patriot alter ego. One that can post gibberish links that Hammer will not. There are many similarities between the writing styles and opinion presentation of the two.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: I'm beginning to think Bettyboo is yet another Hore/Hammer/American Patriot alter ego. One that can post gibberish links that Hammer will not. There are many similarities between the writing styles and opinion presentation of the two.
It's just a coincidence. I don't even know of those 'titles'. This is my first time hearing of them, and it came from you.
Posts: 2088 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by anthony: I recently read a book called When We Ruled, by R. WALKER. There was a hypnotic essay at the end by a F. SUPIYA that demonstrated, among other things, that Sumerian was related to Proto-Bantu and Niger-Congo. Has anybody else here read this essay? Is it plausible?
Anthony Clark
Sumerians was not related to Proto-Bantu. Bantu Africans don't have much or no history outside of Africa. The only history Bantus have is that of the Zulu and the Wall of Great Zimbabwe and that was primitive compare to other cultures. I read that book and I gave it away.
What is this based on? Meaning, where do your get your information?? Besides the fact this is a pseudo thread.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by anthony: I recently read a book called When We Ruled, by R. WALKER. There was a hypnotic essay at the end by a F. SUPIYA that demonstrated, among other things, that Sumerian was related to Proto-Bantu and Niger-Congo. Has anybody else here read this essay? Is it plausible?
Anthony Clark
Sumerians was not related to Proto-Bantu. Bantu Africans don't have much or no history outside of Africa. The only history Bantus have is that of the Zulu and the Wall of Great Zimbabwe and that was primitive compare to other cultures. I read that book and I gave it away.
The Swahili were also Bantu and the Bantu speakers do have a history and it isn't primitive except by the standards of the racist whites who wrote history.
NO, it's primitive when compared to more advanced, noble groups. Africans don't think anything is primitive about them. You tell them walking around naked is primitive, they will argue that it's not because Africa is hot.
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posted
Bettyboo - I’ll never understand why the African/Black apologist always highjack this VERY obvious observation, and instead of analyzing it; they turn it into a “you’re not Black enough” litmus test. The fact is that Sub-Sahara Africa was not even close in terms of technology and structural development with the world’s culture centers, (all of them Black created, but through ignorance, this is of no consequence to the apologist).
What has never been allowed to happen is to ask the question, why? The Nigerian canoe from 8,000 B.C. indicates a sophistication in design that is far ahead of it’s time, but there is precious little else. But this canoe in of itself indicates the ability to think in advanced technical terms, so why was the use of this ability so limited in its scope?
I have always wondered if the Sub-Saharan’s made a conscious and logical choice to forgo the trappings of civilization that was evolving in other parts of the world, for a simpler more holistic approach to life. One that involved finding your place in the environment, rather than isolating yourself from the environment. It would be nice if those who instinctly feel the need to defend, would instead, try to think about what it all truly means.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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I have always wondered if the Sub-Saharan’s made a conscious and logical choice to forgo the trappings of civilization that was evolving in other parts of the world, for a simpler more holistic approach to life. One that involved finding your place in the environment, rather than isolating yourself from the environment. It would be nice if those who instinctly feel the need to defend, would instead, try to think about what it all truly means.
I don't think sub-Saharans chose a simpler more "holistic" life than peoples from other places. The Great Empires of West and South Africa and their trade, warfare, etc would argue against this claim. Can you expand more on what you mean? How would the nation building of Chaka for example be more holistic than that of Napoleon? If you are gonna troll, at least be a bit creative...
Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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zarahan - I see that you are new, so I suppose that should buy you a bye. But in the future, if you don't know what you are talking about: ASK A QUESTION. Do not make a statement!
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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Bantus are not as primitive as early historians made them out to be. If you studied their religious and political traditions you would observe its very sophisticated and more akin to the western form of democracy. The Bantu of Central Africa have a checks and balance system or goverment which come from the people instead of a monarch.
I suggest you read more about the kingdoms of the Baluba,Kikongo and Kuba peoples.
Check out the following books:
African Cosmology of the Bantu-Kongo by Fu-Kiau Bunseki (you have to seek this one out through inter-libratry loan unless you want to pay a heafty price for it. It mainly details the religious system of the Kikongo people. Much of it is reminiscent of the ancient Egyptians)
Readings in Precolonial Central Africa: Texts and Documents (Paperback) by Theophile Obenga (mainly travelogues of Portugese and other Europeans who traveled in Central Africa before the slave trade)
Culture and Customs of the Congo (Culture and Customs of Africa) (Hardcover) by Tshilemalema Mukenge (this should be readily avaiable in most libraries considering its avaiable at my local Community College library)
Mbongi: An African Traditional Political Institution (Paperback) by K. Kia Bunseki Fu-Kiau (check this book out about Kongolese political insitutions)
Just read about the Bantu and you will be very suprised once you reserch them throughly.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Thread to be moved the "Ancient Egypt" forum (non-Egyptology related discussion).
Posts: 113 | From: Dayr al-Barsha | Registered: May 2007
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