quote:Originally posted by Wally: AFRI - SMOKE, HOT VAPOR -- HEAT!
You know in the Greek there is a word called APHRIKE which means "land without cold." This has been posited as a possible etymology for Africa.
My research has isolated A-AFURA-KA
A (za, ta, sa) = Land FURA (faro, fari) = king, god or sun ka = first person singular suffix pronoun meaning "my."
So AFURAKA would be "the land of my king." We are familiar with KA being a second person suffix pronoun in kiKami. But Budge also has the /k/ as a first AND second person singular suffix pronoun as well.
You find many parts of East Africa still called SOFALA, AFURA, AFARO, AFER, ZOFALA, AFARA, etc. by native speakers. Remember Mozambique used to be called SOFALA and there is still the AFER people in Somalia/Ethiopia.
The prevailing scholarship says Africa was named after the AFRI tribe in which Scipio the Younger defeated which was the final stronghold of Hannibal.
Posts: 853 | From: Houston | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: You know in the Greek there is a word called APHRIKE which means "land without cold." This has been posited as a possible etymology for Africa. My research has isolated A-AFURA-KA...
Unlike you, my brain does not seek an external explanation for something which is clear and in front of me. The expression "Afrika" in the Mdu Ntr would be "hot highlands" in English, and would be used to contrast with the relatively cool lowlands of the river valley - yet you insist on giving a Greek or a possible Roman etymology to an African term!
The 'k' which you refer to, and I don't understand why (Afuraka???), is a pronoun and is pronounced "ek" which is not the same as the expression "ka"...
and as far as your reference to the word "Afer"...
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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...bye the bye... there is a Mdu Ntr pronoun "ka" but it means "you" - Now, given the many possible African dialects spoken in Kemet, there may have been something like "furoka" which we would get something like, and this is a stretch , "You king" but the official and proper Mdu Ntr way (accepted) to say "the land of my king" would be "pTo Ferao.i"... that's literally "the land of my great Double-House" , to be exact, you would say "pTo Suten.i"...
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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In wallyland we think we are a linusistic expert when in fact we may have no idea what we are reading. People go to school for years to understand this stuff but we have wally to correct all of the experts.
Posts: 2069 | From: Texas | Registered: Sep 2008
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(WILLIE AND) BOBO...DID AFRICAN-AMERICANS INHERIT THIS POPULAR NICKNAME FROM THE WOLOF OR YORUBA?...
DOES THIS IMPLY ANY SPECIFIC CONOTATION TO THE KINGDOM OF BENIN OR TO THE OBA OF BENIN?
GO LOOK FOR YOUR GREEKS IF YOU WANNA, BUT 'ETHIOPIA' SEEMS TO BE DERIVED FROM THE MDU NTR WORD FOR 'BORDER' OR FRONTIER' AND THE FOLKS WHO DWELT BEYOND THE BORDERS OF KEMET; EKUSHI, ETHOSHI, ...
DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY BUDGE WOULD PUT A QUESTION MARK AFTER THE NAME MOSES; IN KEMET, A LOT OF BABIES WERE NAMED MOSES...
HERE IS AN INSTANCE WHERE A WORD FOR EGYPTIANS ACTUALLY HAS 'LAND' IN IT...AMAZING...
I don't know what your problem is but it is preventing you from reading the actual post. I don't appreciate your tone and if you can't respond in an intelligent and professional manner, please refrain from directing your comments to me on any future post.
I said it has been posited that APHRIKE could be a possible etymology for Africa. I did not say I believed it or even did I argue for it. Please read first before commenting.
Now, how are you referencing Budge and Budge has /k/ as a first person singular SUFFIX pronoun. A first person singular pronoun is my, I, me, mine. Secondly where are you getting "ek" from? You definitely aren't getting that from Mdw Ntr because it provides no vowel /e/ in ANY of the texts. You are making it up.
I associate the KA as a first person singular suffix pronoun because that's what East African Bantu languages use to mean my, mine, me, etc (especially in Kiswahili).
Your reference to Afer and Afri representing a "hot land" is culturally unfounded. You show me in ANY Egyptian texts where AFER-KA is referred to the land in which the people reside and provide any cultural references of any of the living traditions today.
AFURA is a practice that is all over Africa and is given in many different forms. As Gadalla (2003:169) notes:
"It was very common for both states in sub-Saharan Africa and their capitals to have been known by a name indicating the presence of royalty. Thus, Mali in Malinke (and Mande in Soninke) means the place where the master [ma] resides, and by extension, the Malinke or Mande people are the people of the king, which is exactly like the people of Britain, who are called subjects of the Queen/King."
This is the same practice with FARO, AFRI, AFAR, SOFALA, etc., and is why you see so many people with that title in Africa.
Your rendition lacks purpose in African societies. You haven't spoken to one African elder. They didn't name things arbitrarily. That name which has many forms, AFURA, FARO, ZAFALA, SOFALA, AFRI, AFER, etc. derives from the ancient Ta-Merian PR-AA which we know in the Wolof becomes FARA, FARI. Not only is it a term associated with the supreme king, but the subjects under his authority. Thus why the term PR-AA in ancient Egyptian language later became the title of anyone who worked under the Nsw Bity as Budge notes on pg. 432a of his Hieroglyphic Dictionary.
As we can see this same practice is present among Wolof speakers:
Egyptian Per-aa = Pharoah
Wolof Fari = supreme Fara = officer in charge Fara leku = keeper of harem
Coptic Paour = the chief P-our = the king P.ouro = king (Coptic)
Wolof Bur = the king (b > p)
As we can see in Wolof, FARA is applied to the officers in charge, just like Budge stated in his Hieroglyphic Dictionary concerning PR-AA. This is cultural backing for the term.
Again, you have to provide cultural backing for your claims and just because similar sounding terms exist in the M-Du Njora, doesn't mean they apply to your hypothesis. You have to demonstrate cultural support for your claims.
Posts: 853 | From: Houston | Registered: Nov 2007
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I don't know what your problem is but it is preventing you from reading the actual post. I don't appreciate your tone and if you can't respond in an intelligent and professional manner, please refrain from directing your comments to me on any future post.
Well, excuuuse me, and this comment isn't directed to you but to what you have subsequently written, and you kinda asked for this:
quote:Now, how are you referencing Budge and Budge has /k/ as a first person singular SUFFIX pronoun. A first person singular pronoun is my, I, me, mine. Secondly where are you getting "ek" from? You definitely aren't getting that from Mdw Ntr because it provides no vowel /e/ in ANY of the texts. You are making it up.
...I'm making it up...
Egyptian present pronouns - using "kef" to seize, grasp
Hieroglyphic / Egyptian / Coptic
kf.i / kef i / keh
kf.k / kef ek / keh ek - it appears that the Kememou and their descendants, made it up even before I did...
kf.t / kef et / keh ere
kf.f / kef ef / keh ef
kf.n / kef n / keh en
kf.tn / kef ton / keh etetu
kef.sn / kef sen / keh.ey
quote:Your reference to Afer and Afri representing a "hot land" is culturally unfounded. You show me in ANY Egyptian texts where AFER-KA is referred to the land in which the people reside and provide any cultural references of any of the living traditions today.
Culturally unfounded??? I am merely illustrating words from a dictionary and what they mean - how in heaven's good name is a Mdu Ntr expression such as "Afrika" culturally unfounded; in any case "Afri" and "Ka" are there, right there for one to see, and is definitely not linguistically unfounded...but isn't language culture?
quote:Your rendition lacks purpose in African societies. You haven't spoken to one African elder...
...and an all-seeing, all-knowing sage to boot, but this means that I haven't spoken to my father, grand-father, uncles, elderly African men in the US and on the Continent! Do I, indeed exist?...for my 'renditions lack purpose' but only in African societies...
quote:
Again, you have to provide cultural backing for your claims and just because similar sounding terms exist in the M-Du Njora, doesn't mean they apply to your hypothesis. You have to demonstrate cultural support for your claims.
Some folks are unaware of the existence of objective reality; they suppose that everything anyone says or writes is subjective: now I gave an example of what the Kememou called the peoples of the Sudan - "Khentiu hon Nefer" and which the reader could then proceed to the following examples, and come reasonably to the conclusion that "Khentiu hon Nefer" would mean something like "Founders of the Excellent Order" - There is of course a subjective reason for my posting this information, but the information is objective data...and nothing I posted is hypothetical...I made these Mdu Ntr words up too?
The only agenda here with this topic, is to present to those who visit a compilation of words (objective date) that I, subjectively, feel are worth highlighting, for those who wish to learn...simple...
I had hoped that we would have more contributions of words found in the dictionary by others, but alas, this is the internet: I recently searched a forum concerning a computer programming issue and the forum suddenly veered into a discussion of the Danish language! Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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What i mean by you "making up" items is there is no known glyph to represent the sound /e/. For you to insert /e/ in ANY Mdw Ntr text is "guessing" at the sound.
I add the /a/ to the /k/ morpheme because in the living languages of the Niger-Kongo/Bantu languages, KA means my, me, I, mine, etc., not EK.
Again, when I state that you have to connect language with cultural ideologies and practice, it is to strengthen your claims. KA comes from KAA or KALA which means "charcoal."
All throughout Africa you will find this term KAA to mean fire, charcoal, black, human being, living, to be alive, etc. From this core concept you have KAA to mean "like me, I, my, exact, replica, etc."
KA in this case derives from the belief that I as a human being am a living "coal." "I" and "person" or "living being" are the same thing in African ontology. This is why the same word for "fire," "burning charcoal," "black," is the same word for, "me, I, my, mine" as a first and second singular personal pronoun which can be prefixed or suffixed to any word. I have yet to find an EK to mean "my, I, me." I find in abundance KA.
This is how we make our cases stronger. Tie the concepts to living philosophies. Words do not exist outside a cultural framework.
Posts: 853 | From: Houston | Registered: Nov 2007
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More bullshit etymologies from Wally, excepting a few genuinely Ancient Egyptian words like nefer. Afrika is more likely from the N. African tribe "Afri" (pl.), which is likely from Semitic (Phoenician?) "`Afer," meaning "dust, Earth" (in Amharic pronounced "Afer" since the ayin has been lost).
-------------------- "Oh the sons of Ethiopia; observe with care; the country called Ethiopia is, first, your mother; second, your throne; third, your wife; fourth, your child; fifth, your grave." - Ras Alula Aba Nega. Posts: 1024 | Registered: Jun 2006
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I guess it is easier for someone to express their philosophy or their specific agendas than to simply post interesting words from the Hieroglyphic dictionary...I guess...
Now Asar, I commend you on your work regarding Bantu philosophy and stuff; what you write is interesting and very instructive...but in regards to the Mdu Ntr, you are simply wrong:
quote:What i mean by you "making up" items is there is no known glyph to represent the sound /e/. For you to insert /e/ in ANY Mdw Ntr text is "guessing" at the sound.
I won't get into an expanded debate with you on the different vowel glyphs and what sounds they represented; what is directly at hand here is how words are pronounced in the language; take the following example:
You have a word that is written "Ksh" but which is spoken in Coptic as "Ekush" - culturally, the speaker knows the words first before learning how to read them and how they are written.
quote: I add the /a/ to the /k/ morpheme because in the living languages of the Niger-Kongo/Bantu languages, KA means my, me, I, mine, etc., not EK.
Critically speaking, you are misunderstanding;the second person masculine pronoun - you, your - is spoken in Coptic and is pronounced "ek" as it was by the ancestral tongue Mtau ro n Keme.
I, me, mine in Mtau Ntr is "i" ('ee'), a vowel "ka" and it is written with the vowel is second person, meaning "you" "kai" means 'the two of you'
One only has to guess when there is no obvious solution to the sounds of the vowels and the methodology of the scribes in rendering a word - as you no doubt have experienced with your rasslin' with the word "Mn" in another thread
Dshrt is spoken as "Trosh" Anpu is spoken as "Anoup" ...
Now to respond to the fool, Yom, who posted after you did:
quote:More bullshit etymologies from Wally, excepting a few genuinely Ancient Egyptian words like nefer.
It is clear what this idiot is saying: that of all the words that I posted from Budge's Hieroglyphic dictionary, only a few, like 'nefer' are genuinely Ancient Egyptian words. - Budge - not being available, I suppose - I am the one to blame for listing these "bullshit" words. I would sincerely hope that these mindless utterances are due to some mind altering chemicals; Heaven forbid that it be his natural thought processes at work here...
And since this idiot doesn't have a clue, he repeats his catechism:
quote:Afrika is more likely from the N. African tribe "Afri" (pl.), which is likely from Semitic (Phoenician?) "`Afer," meaning "dust, Earth" (in Amharic pronounced "Afer" since the ayin has been lost).
...how careless of the Amharas to 'lose' the ayin...
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:More bullshit etymologies from Wally, excepting a few genuinely Ancient Egyptian words like nefer.
It is clear what this idiot is saying: that of all the words that I posted from Budge's Hieroglyphic dictionary, only a few, like 'nefer' are genuinely Ancient Egyptian words. - Budge - not being available, I suppose - I am the one to blame for listing these "bullshit" words. I would sincerely hope that these mindless utterances are due to some mind altering chemicals; Heaven forbid that it be his natural thought processes at work here...
You idiot, of course I'm not saying the words in the images you posted aren't Ancient Egyptian, but the etymologies you posted about them are wrong. There's no evidence that the English word "sir," which is derived from Latin "senior" is related to Egyptian "ser." Likewise, an Egyptian god "Armau" has nothing to do with the Oromo ethnic group whose ethnogenesis likely hadn't even taken place yet. "Nappy" has a Germanic root, not Ancient Egyptian. It's really ridiculous some of the connections you contrive.
quote:
quote:Afrika is more likely from the N. African tribe "Afri" (pl.), which is likely from Semitic (Phoenician?) "`Afer," meaning "dust, Earth" (in Amharic pronounced "Afer" since the ayin has been lost).
...how careless of the Amharas to 'lose' the ayin...
The letter "ayin" is used to spell the word, but the sound has been lost. "Eye" in Amharic is still "`ayin" but it's pronounced "ayin." It's not that odd a linguistic phenomenon, but I guess all you know about it is how to pick random sounds and words that are similar to English words.
Posts: 1024 | Registered: Jun 2006
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"You gave them eyes, still they cannot see..."
I posted a hieroglyphic that reads "Sir", Budge lists it as "Ser" and the word means
prince, chief, nobleman, elder, and it was placed without comment from me, hence "Some more facts for your brains to process..."
Here's one illustration of that process:
quote:You idiot, of course I'm not saying the words in the images you posted aren't Ancient Egyptian, but the etymologies you posted about them are wrong. There's no evidence that the English word "sir," which is derived from Latin "senior" is related to Egyptian "ser."...
Despite the obvious handicap of stopping at the boundaries of Europe in assessing an etymology - it's completely oblivious to the obvious similarities;
a) Compare the Mtau Ntr - Sir: prince, chief, nobleman, elder
with
quote: Sir: 1297, title of honor of a knight or baronet (until 17c. also a title of priests), variant of sire, originally used only in unstressed position. Generalized as a respectful form of address by c.1350; used as a salutation at the beginning of letters from 1425.
Sire:c.1205, title placed before a name and denoting knighthood, from O.Fr. sire, from V.L. *seior, from L. senior "older, elder" (see senior). Standing alone and meaning "your majesty" it is attested from c.1225. General sense of "important elderly man" is from 1362; that of "father, male parent" is from c.1250. The verb meaning "to beget, to be the sire of" is attested from 1611, from the noun.
Looks to me like the Mtau Ntr word "Sir" and the English word "Sir" are not merely synonyms, they are the same! - even if you choose to stop at the banks of the Mediterranean with "seior"...
Then the other nonsense:
quote: b) the Egyptian god "Armau" has nothing to do with the Oromo ethnic group whose...
Never said it did...just said that in the Mtau Ntr there is an ancient Kememou god whose name was "Oromo"
quote: c) "Nappy" has a Germanic root, not Ancient Egyptian.
...all I did was post the fact that in the Mtau Ntr there is this word "Napi" which meant a lock of hair; all of a sudden, we're back up in Europe, in Germany!
"Napi" is an Ancient Egyptian word - check it out, it really is in the Hieroglyphic dictionary...really...
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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We've been through this before. The plausible etymology for the word Africa stems from the circa 8th century BCE Aourigha ethny who lived in the confines of what became Phoenician Carthage, i.e., present day Tunisia. It was only to Tunisia that the first records using the word Africa ever applied.
The usage then came to include the Maghreb and only much later did the mass of the continent come to be identified by the word.
All this i quite ironic seeing that nowadays the original region called Africa is no longer thought of as Africa, Africa now being relegated to the landmass south of the Sahara. Yes a splendid God Joke, that!
'Ayin is too harsh to be the 'a' in Africa. 'Aleph would be better. But neither is correct because the people didn't wait around nameless until Phoenicians showed up.
quote:Originally posted by Yom: More bullshit etymologies from Wally, excepting a few genuinely Ancient Egyptian words like nefer. Afrika is more likely from the N. African tribe "Afri" (pl.), which is likely from Semitic (Phoenician?) "`Afer," meaning "dust, Earth" (in Amharic pronounced "Afer" since the ayin has been lost).
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:alTakruri wrote: Ironic seeing that nowadays the original region called Africa is no longer thought of as Africa
Since when was Maghreb no longer considered part of Africa? There is a seperation of North africa and SS Africa on mainstream media among other western on outlets, but i've never heard of Maghreb being seen by these as anything else than a region of Africa.
Posts: 1554 | Registered: Jul 2006
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Internetetiquette?? First, Djehuti asks where has Yom been?!? Then AlTakruri makes a relevant post vis-a-vis his take on the etymology of "Africa", to which Yonis2 moves the topic into the nether regions with the question as to why Northern Africa is not considered a part of Africa?
Does the words "Post a different thread" ring a bell here? --pretty soon, we'll be talking about the Polar recesses or who knows what...Internetetiquette...
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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North Africa is obvioulsy part of africa on a geographical level. People distinguish the two are their racial make up. North Africa is caucasian while south of the desert the population is black african.
Posts: 2069 | From: Texas | Registered: Sep 2008
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@ Wally, I misread your initial response and didn't see the last column referencing the Coptic language. I apologize for the over sight.
Here are some other terms you will have to come to terms with:
Ifriqiya (Arabic): In medieval history, Ifriqiya or Ifriqiyah (Arabic: إفريقية) was the area comprising the coastal regions of what are today western Libya, Tunisia, and eastern Algeria. This area included what had been the Roman province of Africa.
Ifriqiya was bounded on the south by the semi-arid areas and salt marshes called el-Djerid. At various times, the rulers of this area also conquered Sicily and parts of mainland Italy, and the western boundary was in continual flux but usually went as far as Bejaia. Its capital was Qayrawan (Kairouan) in central Tunisia.
**************************
Afariqa (Christian Berbers in North Africa)
*****************************
Again, what seems to be at the heart of these terms is AFAR, AFURA, FURA, etc. I contend that this is not an Arabic word, but an African which these people have lost the initial meaning. It means to be a subject of the king: the Ras TAFARI - Pharoah....
Posts: 853 | From: Houston | Registered: Nov 2007
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Your problem is that you seem impervious to flexibility of thought--in the sense that what you were taught or made to believe many years ago, you still believe despite evidence to the contrary.
You must learn to think logically and independently--as distinct from just believing blindly. And that's where the concept of "intelligence" kicks in: the ability to understand phenomena especially in the face of anomalies and contrary evidence.
AP, I have been to Morocco and I have seen many North Africans in West Africa--and really, they hardly look "Caucasian" to me. Most are like Dominicans and Puerto Ricans. Would you call the generic Puerto-Rican "caucasian"?
Furthermore, the population of North Africa is multi-hued. Kaddafi once proclaimed that 1/3 of Libya is black. And if you ever went to Egypt or Morocco you will note that the populations are a mix of hues and phenotypes. And most of them I would not call Caucasian.
In fact, there are cases of African Americans living in Egypt who--as they report--are constantly taken for indigenous Egyptian. There is also the case of many Egyptians feeling pleased that Obama was elected as President of the U.S. The reason they provided-- on TV was the Obama "looks like us". So is BHO a "Caucasian"?
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: You know in the Greek there is a word called APHRIKE which means "land without cold." This has been posited as a possible etymology for Africa. My research has isolated A-AFURA-KA...
Unlike you, my brain does not seek an external explanation for something which is clear and in front of me. The expression "Afrika" in the Mdu Ntr would be "hot highlands" in English, and would be used to contrast with the relatively cool lowlands of the river valley - yet you insist on giving a Greek or a possible Roman etymology to an African term!
The 'k' which you refer to, and I don't understand why (Afuraka???), is a pronoun and is pronounced "ek" which is not the same as the expression "ka"...
and as far as your reference to the word "Afer"...
I doubt it.
Upper nile valley is one of the hotest areas on earth.
The Highlands of Ethiopia are relatively cool.
Just because a word used now in English can be translated to ancient "Egyptian", does not mean that the Egyptian word provides etymology for the presently used English term.
If you insist on this translation, can you support it with geographic reference to "hot highlands".
ie - on a map, where is this?
Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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Btw, sorry Yom but it's just that I haven't seen you for so long it's hard to believe you're back but I must've missed it that you are Henu.
Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Being a phillopeeeeeno must suck, since you spend most of your waking hours trying to talk about anything other than that wretched island you hail from.
Is that why you are so obsessed with other ethnic groups?
Posts: 3085 | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote: from rasol: I doubt it. Upper nile valley is one of the hotest areas on earth. rasol writes: The Highlands of Ethiopia are relatively cool. just because a word used now in English can be translated to ancient "Egyptian", does not mean that the Egyptian word provides etymology for the presently used English term. If you insist on this translation, can you support it with geographic reference to "hot highlands". ...on a map, where is this?
...folks he wants me to show him the complete words "Afri" + "Ka(w)" on a map, and point out the location of this place- just like in another thread where alTakruri, in order to prove that the Fulani once sojourned in Ancient Egypt, he wants to see their emigration papers...
You know, these fellows 'arguments' remind me so much of the Republicans; having no cogent response to the fact that the American people kicked them out of power, they have no other responses but to say no to everything, or just make things up:
The title of this thread is self-evident and the first postings I placed here were two Ancient Egyptian words "Afri" and "Ka" and gave Budge's definition of these two words, and that is all!
It was then up to the reader to give their response to these two words, knowing that their brains could not help but see immediately the close resemblence to "'Africa", without a rehash, I simple have to quote the last response:
quote: If you insist on this translation, can you support it with geographic reference to "hot highlands".
Oh, how Republican! How Rush Limbaughish!
"If you insist that "Corte Madera" means "Cutting Wood" can you support it with reference....blah, blah, blah
I could easily show you a map with Corte Madera, Ca on it and there are masses of Mexican national laborers in that county who would be happy to explain to you that "Corte Madera" means "Cutting Wood" and that corte madera es malo, but it pays good...
But wouldn't it be more practical and easier to just ask somebody who speaks and understands Coptic - Bohairic or Sahidic or those dialects in the middle - what does the expression "Afrikau" mean, you may even get suficient information from someone who speaks Egyptian arabic...
here's some Sahidic Coptic from a small lexicon:
kah = earth, soil - the proper form would be: kahAfri - "earth hot" / kahtwk /kahhmom... - however if the land or soil is considered sacred you could have, as you have in Kemti - Afrikah /twkkah /hmomkah --- and while I have your attention and rather than go back to that tired, 'republicanized' discussion on the Fulani; you tried to bait me back in with a statement that I know you know was misleading and attributed it to me. You said something to the effect that I would refer to Berber as being Tamhu...
My statement, regarding the word Tamhu is and has always beem clear:
Tamh = reddish, striped, the color of an animals behind... Tamhu = red ones and is a synonym of Ṫerosh This is what Africans called and still do, light skinned Africans, or light colored folks in general: - In Earlier times "Tamhu" would probably be what the Khoisan, Xhosa folks were called, the Fulani, we know are still called that... - Later, and we know the exact timeline on this one, when the Vandals colonized northern Africa, these Berbers would be called Tamhu... --Tamhu then became a generic term, along with Ṫerosh, to also describe Red folks, and I know of no occurance where light-skinned peoples were ever referred to as Hedj or white...
but riddle me this... - give me one cogent fact that would deny or disprove the historical documents of Fulani Griots and Fulani professors that describe the Fulani peoples sojourn in Ancient Egypt.
- give me a cogent argument to support your statement that my comparing Egyptian and Fulani 'specious.' How is it specious and comparing bueno = good (sp) and bon = good (fr) not?
- give me solid, cogent arguments, in a Barack Obama democratic fashion, that would seriously challenge the arguments and evidence presented by our side of the issue. please, no Rush Limbauhish, muddling, and describing to us over here, how to debate, when we're clearly overwhelming y'all in this one...
and now I happen to glance over at another thread and see that Djehuti has chimed in with a typical 'Republinesque' response - nothing relevant to the point that I made, he said "I have to agree with Explorer in that this is more than just 'fishy'. It's funny how all of the examples Wally gives of rulers having demeaning names or titles come from Medieval Europe. medieval Europe and ancient Africa are two entirely different regions, times, and cultures."
--How about Ancient China?
哀 ai "the Lamentable": ZHOU (Lu, Hann), HAN, JIN, TANG, JINN 衝 chong "the Offender": HAN 代 dai "the Dynastical": TANG, MING 度 du "the Careful": SONG 廢 fei "the Deposed", 廢帝 feidi: JIN, LIU-SONG, XIWEI, BEIQI; always translated 共 gong "the Common": ZHOU, error for 恭 gong 簡 jian "the Simple": ZHOU (Qin, Yan), combination 簡文 jianwen: JIN, LIANG 考 kao "the Deceased": ZHOU, combination 考烈 kaolie: (Chu) 匡 kuang "the Corrector": ZHOU 厲 li "the Severe": ZHOU 靈 ling "the Clever": ZHOU, HAN, combination 武靈 wuling: (Zhao) 湣 min "the Confused": (Qi), combination 景湣 jingmin: (Wei) 赧 nan "the Embarrassed": ZHOU. 平 ping "the Appeaser": ZHOU, HAN 仁 ren "the Human": SONG, XIA, YUAN, MING, QING 孺子 ruzi, "the Kid", a person that has no title for ancestor veneration, like 孺子嬰 Ying the Kid, last emperor of the Han. Ying actually also means "baby" or "kid", but it was also a common name during Zhou and Han dynasties. 殤 shang "Young Deceased": HAN 少 shao "the Minor", 少帝 shaodi: HAN, LIU-SONG, TANG; always translated 順 shun "the Obedient": HAN, LIU-SONG, TANG, YUAN, combination 天順 tianshun: YUAN 孝 xiao "the Filal": ZHOU (Qin, Yan), SONG, MING; during Han added to the dynastic title, making combinations like 孝武 xiaowu: JIN, LIU-SONG, BEIWEI, 孝文 xiaowen: BEIWEI, 孝明 xiaoming: BEIWEI, 孝莊 xiaozhuang: BEIWEI, 孝昭 xiaozhao: BEIQI, 孝成 xiaocheng: (Zhao) 玄 xuan "the Mysterious": TANG 幽 you "the Darkened": ZHOU (Chu) 躁 zao "the Hot-tempered" (Qin)
--now, get with that!! Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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