There are more ancient colored pictures portraying Asiatics.
1. Fragment of painted plaster from the tomb of Sebekhotep From Thebes, Egypt 18th Dynasty, around 1400 BC Syrians presenting exotic vessels and tribute
2. Fragment of painted plaster from the tomb of Sebekhotep From Thebes, Egypt 18th Dynasty, around 1400 BC An Asiatic with horses
3. Fragment of a battle scene Thebes, Asasif, Dynasty 18, probably reign of Thutmosis IV (ca. 1400-1390 B.C.) Western Asiatics
4. Egyptian, New Kingdom, Dynasty 20, reign of Ramesses III, 1184–1153 B.C. Findspot: Thebes, Egypt Polychrome faience Nubians,Philistine,Amorite,Syria,Hittite
People of the Northern Levant or Syria who were fair in color and the Arabians and their descendants in the Hejaz and Syria (Canaanites, Pheonicians, Musri or Masruh, Philistines) were two different people. The latter were those the Greeks later called black Syrians.
Syrians with fair skin were not from Arabia. I have some Canaanites with brown skin are also pictured on Tut's royal chest. Keftiu princes of Tunip (Daphinah) near Baalbek (north Arabia? ) are also portrayed as near black in color in Egyptian paintings. Will scan and post the photos soon.
The picture above with the Syrian and Nubians looks as if the paint is coming off the Amorite with brown paint on his head and off the Syrian.
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Those guys aren't Philistines. They're Egyptians in a procession. Just as I explained twice before one must view the scene in its entirety to see what it depicts. Plus the mdw ntjr is right there.
quote:Originally posted by Whatbox:
Possible Phillistines -- check out tha head gear
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun: I got these TNV Forum
[
Amazing I have never seen any Black Asiatics dipicted by the Egyptians shown before, possibly depictions of the original Jews??
The Black bearded man With Dreads or Braids remind me of the Assyrian Releifs...
Sorry for being Off Topic but seriously those are the Best depictions of Black Asiatics by Egyptians I have seen so far..
Yes - some of them probably were true or early Israelites and much like the Jews below from the Yemen who still look like them. Look closely and note also the chalk or paint has been faded from all three of those painted heads. They were much darker.
"Habbani" Jews with scroll "the Scroll of the Law"
Two realtively unmixed brothers from the same family of Habani jews from the Yemen/Hadramaut stand as body guards behind a Turkish looking and descended ruler of Jordan.
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quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: ...I have some Canaanites with brown skin are also pictured on Tut's royal chest. Keftiu princes of Tunip (Daphinah) near Baalbek (north Arabia?) are also portrayed as near black in color in Egyptian paintings. Will scan and post the photos soon.
Still waiting for this.
quote:Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun:
Jari, do you know the labeling of identity for the first man on the left?? I want to know if this black man is Libyan or Asiatic. I would be pleased by either result.
Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: ...I have some Canaanites with brown skin are also pictured on Tut's royal chest. Keftiu princes of Tunip (Daphinah) near Baalbek (north Arabia?) are also portrayed as near black in color in Egyptian paintings. Will scan and post the photos soon.
Still waiting for this.
Almost forgot about it. The Keftiu painting I will have to get from the library. I'm not sure if I can get the Tut book but it was a children's book on the art in Tuts tomb. Will call and find out.
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quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Those guys aren't Philistines. They're Egyptians in a procession. Just as I explained twice before one must view the scene in its entirety to see what it depicts. Plus the mdw ntjr is right there.
quote:Originally posted by Whatbox:
Possible Phillistines -- check out tha head gear
In any case these look a lot like the "sea people" Tjekker. But especially the ones toward the back on the bottom. But they certainly aren't dressed like Philistines.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Those guys aren't Philistines. They're Egyptians in a procession. Just as I explained twice before one must view the scene in its entirety to see what it depicts. Plus the mdw ntjr is right there.
quote:Originally posted by Whatbox:
Possible Phillistines -- check out tha head gear
In any case these look a lot like the "sea people" Tjekker. But especially the ones toward the back on the bottom. But they certainly aren't dressed like Philistines.
Tjekker (Takr)? Based on what?
They're Egyptians depicted on Ramesses III's temple at Medinat Habu in a festival procession for either Sobek or Min.
They have not the slightest resemblance to Takr who are also depicted on the walls of that same temple.
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alTakruri & King - Nice bit of bullsh1tting guys, you make declarations that you make no attempt to substantiate, but demand that the other side prove their case.
alTakruri - is particularly guilty, in that he claims the truth is on the same wall, but conveniently neglects to show it.
But King is most grievous - He has fallen into the usual White Racist mindset, that everyone was White until proven otherwise. Before he just hinted at it, but now he has declared himself openly.
King - It's really quite simple, even without artifacts. It's called deductive reasoning i.e. We know from DNA studies and artifacts that the Etruscans were Black. We know from artifacts and common sense that the Cretans were Black.
Since those people were major elements in the Sea People migration, from that we can make the assumption that the Sea People were Black people. But it get's better - from the historical happenings of the time, we can deduce WHY they were migrating. Since they were being forced out by White people, we can assume they were NOT White people.
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Please don't put words in my mouth. I just said that I believe the Sea People were non-Africans(Black) what proof do we have about them that states that they were Black? Any proof may change my mind until then, I will continue to believe Sea People were of a lighter Hue.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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I don't deny that there were blacks present among the Sea Peoples, but it is a stretch to say all Sea Peoples were black especially those from the northern Mediterranean i.e. European coasts.
By the way, what does any of this have to do with 'Arabs'?
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alTakruri - While you're trying to think of an answer you might consider this: Where in hell did you ever see an Egyptian priest garishly wearing feathers?
Gods might have plumes, but mortals?
Yes, the old timers wore leopard skins, but this was the 20th dynasty.
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Well, you put them up here more than a year ago and jumped bad with me when I suggested you do a little more research on the monument. But, without a scintilla of sourcing, you persist on your misrepresentation over a year later.
Time has come today. Stop bluffing and whining.
Put up primary documentation verifying your fake so-called "Tjekker" or shut up whining already.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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^Okay, so when you said Quote: "They're Egyptians depicted on Ramesses III's temple at Medinat Habu in a festival procession for either Sobek or Min."
You weren't talking to dana marniche - you were talking to me - even though I wasn't participating at the time?
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: I don't deny that there were blacks present among the Sea Peoples, but it is a stretch to say all Sea Peoples were black especially those from the northern Mediterranean i.e. European coasts.
By the way, what does any of this have to do with 'Arabs'?
Strange thing to say - didn't you read the study which proved that the Etruscans (IN ITALY) were Black. Isn't ITALY on the European side?
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Ancient Etruscans Unlikely Ancestors Of Modern Tuscans, Testing Reveals.
News story from the Science Daily — For the first time, Stanford university researchers have used statistical computer modeling to simulate demographic processes affecting the population of the Tuscany region of Italy over a 2,500-year time span. Rigorous tests used by the researchers have ruled out a genetic link between Ancient Etruscans, the original inhabitants of central Italy, and the region's modern day residents.
The findings indicate (as is obvious from the pictured artifacts), that the Ancient Etruscans had little in common with the people who later came to Italy, said Joanna Mountain, assistant professor of anthropological sciences. The findings as documented in ''Serial Coalescent Simulations” indicate a Weak Genealogical Relationship Between Etruscans and Modern Tuscans. The study was published May 15, 2006 in the online version of the National Academy of Sciences. Uma Ramakrishnan, a former Stanford postdoctoral fellow, and Elise M. S. Belle along with Guido Barbujani of the University of Ferrara in Italy, co-authored the paper with Mountain.
To date; the Etruscans are the only pre-classical European population that has been genetically analyzed, Mountain said. Two years ago, Italian geneticists extracted maternally inherited mitochondrial DNA from the bones of 27 people called Etruscans found in six different necropolises (burial sites) in Tuscany. The female lineage was investigated because, unlike the male Y chromosome, many copies of mitochondrial DNA are found in each cell and thus are easier to extract, Mountain explained. The finding is important because it questions the common assumption that residents of a particular place are descendants of its earlier inhabitants, Mountain said. Note: This story has been adapted from a news release issued by Stanford University.
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King - Above I questioned the legitimacy of your mindset. Here again I do the same; that study, and the pictures of Etruscan artifacts, have been bandied around this forum for years. But yet you expect us to believe that you somehow missed them?
That is not creditable, the fact is that you have CHOSEN TO IGNORE THEM! Your reason for ignoring them is quite clear - they do not fit with that which you have chosen to believe. To put a finer point on it, It is not what you WANT to believe. Yet you speak of truth and proof, that in itself is bullsh1t.
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Credit you for posting the study without the Insults.
First let me say that in the results of the study, Six Etruscans had the J2 Hapgroup and belong to the JT Hapgroup. This would make some of these peoples close to the people in the Middle East, Mind there was no middle east at that time. It also says that Alleles were also linked to the country of Turkey. It also said there was a Link with North Africa(Algeria and Egypt) It also says the Turkish Genes comes in 3 times as large as any other genes. They also state that these genes estimation should not be taken at face value...MAYBE they are trying to save face on the link to North Africa, or Maybe not.
What I see from this study Mike, You really should not think that this is the be all and end all of the Etruscans. This study does confirm at least that the elite Etruscans had links to Africa, And western Asia and Turkey. Calling them Black from this study is being to hasty.
Anyways maybe you can critique what I post and show me where I miss read the study.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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Man Mike, Hear I am giving you props for not putting insults in your post, and yet you did not even give me a chance to respond until you just could not help yourself and Attacked my character.
I am ALWAYS about TRUTH. I don't usually read peoples post on Europe unless it is about Greeks. I have seen and saw for myself how people can jump to conclusions like you at the littlest news of Africans and then claim ALL people were African.
Your Insult I will ignore, but I ask you when you deal with me show some respect. Humble and Meek is the way to go.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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Credit you for posting the study without the Insults.
First let me say that in the results of the study, Six Etruscans had the J2 Hapgroup and belong to the JT Hapgroup. This would make some of thesse peoples close to the people in the middle East, Mind there was no middle east at that time. It also says that Alleles were also linked to the country of Turkey. It also said there was a Link with North Africa(Algeria and Egypt) It also says the Turkish Genes comes in 3 times as large as any other genes. They also state that these genes estimation should not be taken at face value...MAYBE they are trying to save face on the link to North Africa, or Maybe not.
What I see from this study Mike, You really should not think that this is the be all and end all of the Etruscans. This study does confirm at least that the elite Etruscans had links to Africa, And western Asia and Turkey. Calling them Black from this study is being to hasty.
Anyways maybe you can critique what I post and show me where I miss read the study.
Peace
Indeed and all one really had to do was read the abstract. Poor Mike LOL.
The Etruscans: A Population-Genetic Study
"The origins of the Etruscans, a non-Indo-European population of preclassical Italy, are unclear. There is broad agreement that their culture developed locally, but the Etruscans’ evolutionary and migrational relationships are largely unknown. In this study, we determined mitochondrial DNA sequences in multiple clones derived from bone samples of 80 Etruscans who lived between the 7th and the 3rd centuries b.c. In the first phase of the study, we eliminated all specimens for which any of nine tests for validation of ancient DNA data raised the suspicion that either degradation or contamination by modern DNA might have occurred. On the basis of data from the remaining 30 individuals, the Etruscans appeared as genetically variable as modern populations. No significant heterogeneity emerged among archaeological sites or time periods, suggesting that different Etruscan communities shared not only a culture but also a mitochondrial gene pool. Genetic distances and sequence comparisons show closer evolutionary relationships with the eastern Mediterranean shores for the Etruscans than for modern Italian populations . All mitochondrial lineages observed among the Etruscans appear typically European or West Asian, but only a few haplotypes were found to have an exact match in a modern mitochondrial database, raising new questions about the Etruscans’ fate after their assimilation into the Roman state."
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Not surprisingly, both of you are selective in what you choose to see, and disingenuous in what you say. But it won't help you, the proof is still there.
Cristiano Vernesi,1 David Caramelli,2 Isabelle Dupanloup,1,* Giorgio Bertorelle,1 Martina Lari,2 Enrico Cappellini,2 Jacopo Moggi-Cecchi,2 Brunetto Chiarelli,2 Loredana Castŕ,3 Antonella Casoli,4 Francesco Mallegni,5 Carles Lalueza-Fox,6 and Guido Barbujani1
Abstract
In this study, we present the first extensive genetic data on a European population of the pre-classical period, the Etruscans.
The origins of the Etruscans, a non-Indo-European population of pre-classical (pre-Roman) Italy, are unclear. There is broad agreement that their culture developed locally, but the Etruscans’ evolutionary and migrational relationships are largely unknown. In this study, we determined mitochondrial DNA sequences in multiple clones derived from bone samples of 80 Etruscans who lived between the 7th and the 3rd centuries B.C. No significant heterogeneity emerged among archaeological sites or time periods, suggesting that different Etruscan communities shared not only a culture but also a mitochondrial gene pool. Genetic distances and sequence comparisons show closer evolutionary relationships with the eastern Mediterranean shores for the Etruscans than for modern Italian populations. (The ancient inhabitants of the eastern Mediterranean shores, were Canaanites, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Egyptians, all of whom were Black people).
Admixture coefficients were inferred from differences in haplotype frequencies, considering the Etruscans and the modern Italian populations as hybrids among up to four potential parents. The mitochondrial features of the parental populations were approximated assuming that the best available estimates of allele frequencies in past (and unknown) populations is found in their modern counterparts, as is customary in admixture studies. We chose the Basques as representative of Western Europe, the Turks as representative of the eastern Mediterranean region, Karelians and Volga Finns as representative of northeastern Europe, and Egyptians and Algerians as representative of North Africa.
Various tests show that the Tuscans (see next study below) are the Etruscans’ closest neighbors in terms of genetic distances. Despite that broad similarity, however, Etruscans and Tuscans share only two haplotypes. This finding is difficult to interpret in the absence of data on any other European population of the pre-classical period. One possible interpretation is that all or most European populations of that time period were as different from their modern counterparts as the Etruscans appear to be. This would imply either extensive gene flow or a high rate of extinction of mitochondrial haplotypes, both processes causing a drastic change of the mitochondrial pool in the last 2,500 years. More importantly, a result of that kind would force us to reconsider the universally held assumption that patterns in the DNA of modern individuals reflect the evolutionary processes affecting their prehistoric ancestors. Alternatively, should other ancient populations prove similar to comparable modern ones, one should conclude that the Etruscans’ mitochondrial sequences underwent extinction at a particularly high rate and look for an explanation for that. Until more ancient DNA data become available, both scenarios will remain possible, although we favor the latter.
Etruscans show closer relationships both to North Africans and to Turks than any contemporary population. In particular, the Turkish component in their gene pool appears three times as large as in the other populations.
BTW - These are the Turks that they mentioned!
. HOW ABOUT THESE TURKS?? Every one of them, Blond haired and Blue eyed Nordics - Since you speak as idiots, I will treat you as idiots.
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For the hypocrite, I leave nowhere to run and nowhere to hide!Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Etruscans show closer relationships both to North Africans and to Turks than any contemporary population. In particular, the Turkish component in their gene pool appears three times as large as in the other populations.
BTW - These are the Turks that they mentioned!
Lol it says the Etruscans show closer relations with contemporary North Africans and Turks, you know the Turks you accuse of doing everything wrong in the world. LOL
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quote:"Now modern genetic techniques have given scientists the tools to answer this puzzle. Professor Piazza and his colleagues set out to study genetic samples from three present-day Italian populations living in Murlo, Volterra, and Casentino in Tuscany, central Italy. “We already knew that people living in this area were genetically different from those in the surrounding regions”, he says. “Murlo and Volterra are among the most archaeologically important Etruscan sites in a region of Tuscany also known for having Etruscan-derived place names and local dialects. The Casentino valley sample was taken from an area bordering the area where Etruscan influence has been preserved.”
The scientists compared DNA samples taken from healthy males living in Tuscany, Northern Italy, the Southern Balkans, the island of Lemnos in Greece, and the Italian islands of Sicily and Sardinia. The Tuscan samples were taken from individuals who had lived in the area for at least three generations, and were selected on the basis of their surnames, which were required to have a geographical distribution not extending beyond the linguistic area of sampling. The samples were compared with data from modern Turkish, South Italian, European and Middle-Eastern populations.
“We found that the DNA samples from individuals from Murlo and Volterra were more closely related those from near Eastern people than those of the other Italian samples”, says Professor Piazza. “In Murlo particularly, one genetic variant is shared only by people from Turkey, and, of the samples we obtained, the Tuscan ones also show the closest affinity with those from Lemnos.”
Scientists had previously shown this same relationship for mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) in order to analyse female lineages. And in a further study, analysis of mtDNA of ancient breeds of cattle still living in the former Etruria found that they too were related to breeds currently living in the near East.
The history of the Etruscans extends before the Iron Age to the end of the Roman Republic or from c. 1200 BC to c. 100BC Many archaeological sites of the major Etruscan cities were continuously occupied since the Iron Age, and the people who lived in the Etruria region did not appear suddenly, nor did they suddenly start to speak Etruscan. Rather they learned to write from their Greek neighbours and thus revealed their language. Archaeologists and linguists are in agreement that the Etruscans had been developing their culture and language in situ before the first historical record of their existence.
“But the question that remained to be answered was – how long was this process between pre-history and history"” says Professor Piazza. In 1885 a stele carrying an inscription in a pre-Greek language was found on the island of Lemnos, and dated to about the 6th century BC. Philologists agree that this has many similarities with the Etruscan language both in its form and structure and its vocabulary. But genetic links between the two regions have been difficult to find until now. Herodotus’ theory, much criticised by subsequent historians, states that the Etruscans emigrated from the ancient region of Lydia, on what is now the southern coast of Turkey, because of a long-running famine. Half the population was sent by the king to look for a better life elsewhere, says his account, and sailed from Smyrna (now Izmir) until they reached Umbria in Italy.
“We think that our research provides convincing proof that Herodotus was right”, says Professor Piazza, “and that the Etruscans did indeed arrive from ancient Lydia. However, to be 100% certain we intend to sample other villages in Tuscany, and also to test whether there is a genetic continuity between the ancient Etruscans and modern-day Tuscans. This will have to be done by extracting DNA from fossils; this has been tried before but the technique for doing so has proved to be very difficult.”
“Interestingly, this study of historical origins will give us some pointers for carrying out case-control studies of disease today,” says Professor Piazza. “In order to obtain a reliable result, we had to select the control population much more carefully that would normally be done, and we believe that this kind of careful selection would also help in studies of complex genetic diseases.”
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MindoverMatter718 - Damn boy, you are truly stupid!
From the link that you posted:
Ancient Etruscans were immigrants from Anatolia, or what is now Turkey - 16 Jun 2007 By European Society of Human Genetics Page 1 of 2 Geneticists find the final piece in the puzzle
Nice, France: The long-running controversy about the origins of the Etruscan people appears to be very close to being settled once and for all, a geneticist will tell the annual conference of the European Society of Human Genetics today. Professor Alberto Piazza, from the University of Turin, Italy, will say that there is overwhelming evidence that the Etruscans, whose brilliant civilisation flourished 3000 years ago in what is now Tuscany, were settlers from old Anatolia (now in southern Turkey).
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That's not to say that I agree with it. But just to demonstrate what an ass-hole you are!Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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Mindless-one - Please do not respond anymore. Either you are trolling, or you are just too stupid to take part in this discussion.
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For those who might wonder why I do not agree with Professor Piazza and his colleagues:
From their study, Quote: The scientists compared DNA samples taken from healthy males living in Tuscany, Northern Italy, the Southern Balkans, the island of Lemnos in Greece, and the Italian islands of Sicily and Sardinia. The Tuscan samples were taken from individuals who had lived in the area for at least three generations, and were selected on the basis of their surnames, which were required to have a geographical distribution not extending beyond the linguistic area of sampling. The samples were compared with data from modern Turkish, South Italian, European and Middle-Eastern populations.
“We found that the DNA samples from individuals from Murlo and Volterra were more closely related those from near Eastern people than those of the other Italian samples”, says Professor Piazza. “In Murlo particularly, one genetic variant is shared only by people from Turkey, and, of the samples we obtained, the Tuscan ones also show the closest affinity with those from Lemnos.”
First there is this bit of DATA from my post above:
The findings indicate (as is obvious from the pictured artifacts), that the Ancient Etruscans had little in common with the people who later came to Italy, said Joanna Mountain, assistant professor of anthropological sciences. The findings as documented in ''Serial Coalescent Simulations” indicate a Weak Genealogical Relationship Between Etruscans and Modern Tuscans.
Then there is this bit of DATA:
THE SEA PEOPLE MIGRATION >>>>> TO ANATOLIA (circa 1,200 B.C.)
The Peleset and Tjeker (Minoans) of Crete, they would later be known as the “Philistines” after they had settled in Southern Canaan. Over time, this area became known by a form of their name “Palestine”. The Lukka who may have come from the Lycian region of Anatolia, The Ekwesh and Denen seem to be identified with the original Greeks, The Shardana (Sherden) who may be associated with Sardinia, The Teresh (Tursha or Tyrshenoi), the Tyrrhenians - the Greek name for the Etruscans, and The Shekelesh (Sicilians?).
OBVIOUSLY - THE ETRUSCANS "WENT" TO ANATOLIA!!!!!!
Professor Piazza and his colleagues either don't know sh1t about history, or they are as stupid as the Mindless-one.Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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^Yes Professor Piazza and his colleagues may innocently just not know sh1t about history; but isn't it more likely that they are simply more, in a long line of lying Whites, trying to weave a false history?Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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^Poor guy Mike, like Clyde Winters, you will never admit when you're wrong. It's funny because you both try to use genetics to corroborate your claims but when they are told and showed that they're misinterpreting the data, the genetics soon becomes "the white mans bullsh1t" LOL.
Here's the thing Mike you tried to make a claim that a genetic study said that Etruscans were black, which is far from the truth. You were called out on your claim, and immediately debunked by the same study you posted, now how's that for irony. In fact if you read further you wouldve noted that they most closely match with contemporary TURKS (You know, the Turks who you blame for everything and call everyone from all over).
But no, Mike doesn't want to read that, all he wants to see is that modern Tuscans don't share a strong connection with ancient Etruscans. Mike automatically assumes that they were black just because of the above, and nothing else but that.
Instead of actually reading the study and data from the genetic study mentioned, you run with the statement that modern Tuscans are not largely descended from Etruscans. Why not read the study and post the genetic data? Oh that's right it's the "white mans bullsh1t" huh?
Mike don't use genetics to try to bolster your theories anymore, because you always wind up looking like an idiot for misinterpreting the data, just like your boy Clyde, who often gets confused between the paternal and maternal haplogroups. Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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You were the one who posted the image here and others have stumbled due to you since.
Quit stalling. Admit you don't have sources and I will gladly supply all that's needed.
Anybody is welcome to positively identify authentic Tjekker (T3kr) from the monuments. If requested by anyone who admits they don't know I will also gladly provide them with supportive primary documentation as I have done many times in the past.
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: ^Okay, so when you said Quote: "They're Egyptians depicted on Ramesses III's temple at Medinat Habu in a festival procession for either Sobek or Min."
You weren't talking to dana marniche - you were talking to me - even though I wasn't participating at the time?
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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Those guys aren't the priests. As I have said before they are bearers. You would know this had you followed my advice to examine the complete scene. Doing so shows there are five different processional functionaries.
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: alTakruri - While you're trying to think of an answer you might consider this: Where in hell did you ever see an Egyptian priest garishly wearing feathers?
Gods might have plumes, but mortals?
Yes, the old timers wore leopard skins, but this was the 20th dynasty.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: You were the one who posted the image here and others have stumbled due to you since.
Quit stalling. Admit you don't have sources and I will gladly supply all that's needed.
Anybody is welcome to positively identify authentic Tjekker (T3kr) from the monuments. If requested by anyone who admits they don't know I will also gladly provide them with supportive primary documentation as I have done many times in the past.
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: ^Okay, so when you said Quote: "They're Egyptians depicted on Ramesses III's temple at Medinat Habu in a festival procession for either Sobek or Min."
You weren't talking to dana marniche - you were talking to me - even though I wasn't participating at the time?
He, he, Okay.
alTakruri oh great and knowing one, please forgive the babblings of this ignorant one, and please, please tell us who they are - please, please.
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^Gee, I thought my moment of understanding from the great one would have happened by now.
Oh I know, I was not properly deferential to the great one. Being ever resourceful, I will take a page from the Canaanites.
Oh great one alTakruri - At the feet of my lord, my sun, I fall down seven times and seven times. Please, please, grant knowledge and clarity to this unworthy one.
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^Come-on alTakruri; Yes I have been setting you up just so I can bust your ass. But that's going to happen regardless, so you might as well post whatever nonsense you have, at least it will give you something to argue with.
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I know these pictures are not the best "discovery" one can do, but as I recently came across a lot of my personal posting cut and pasted elsewhere on the web without any references to its author, I will not tolerate anymore people posting my stuff without any reference to me.
quote:Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun: I got these TNV Forum
Amazing I have never seen any Black Asiatics dipicted by the Egyptians shown before, possibly depictions of the original Jews??
The Black bearded man With Dreads or Braids remind me of the Assyrian Releifs...
Sorry for being Off Topic but seriously those are the Best depictions of Black Asiatics by Egyptians I have seen so far..
Wow. I really need to go back to TNV forum, since I haven't been there in years. Also, how many of those heads represent Asiatics. The left most one in the top picture appears to be Kushite. As far as black Asiatics, the only one I'm aware of is the scene of Syrians paying tribute.
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I do not know who originally put up the Tjekker being sea-people, but calling the Greeks Etruscans and other people of the ancient Mediterranean "blacks" is definitely pushing it. Etruscans were obviously a mixture of European people with some kinky haired or African people but judging from the looks of them they were more European than African.
-------------------- D. Reynolds-Marniche Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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The The below are taken from "VERNUS P. (1998), Les Dieux de l'Egypte", that lists them as depicting "Nubian, Semite, Ethiopian(sic)" taken [B]from Ramesses III's palace and being displayed at the Kunsthistorisches Museum in Vienna, Austria.
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: I do not know who originally put up the Tjekker being sea-people, but calling the Greeks Etruscans and other people of the ancient Mediterranean "blacks" is definitely pushing it. Etruscans were obviously a mixture of European people with some kinky haired or African people but judging from the looks of them they were more European than African.
Actually the Tjekker were included in a couple of lists of Sea Peoples mentioned by the Egyptians. From my understanding, the Etruscans originated from Anatolia (ancient Turkey) but they and just about everybody else in the Mediterranean had mixed black ancestry from the neolithic to at least the Bronze Age.
Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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I was talking about the photo that was said by someone to be of the "Tjekker" which appear to be actual Egyptians, not the fact the Tjekker are listed as sea-peoples as are a number of people.
Don't remember who said they were Tjekker.
-------------------- D. Reynolds-Marniche Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun: I got these TNV Forum
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Amazing I have never seen any Black Asiatics dipicted by the Egyptians shown before, possibly depictions of the original Jews??
The Black bearded man With Dreads or Braids remind me of the Assyrian Releifs...
Sorry for being Off Topic but seriously those are the Best depictions of Black Asiatics by Egyptians I have seen so far..
Yes - some of them probably were true or early Israelites and much like the Jews below from the Yemen who still look like them. Look closely and note also the chalk or paint has been faded from all three of those painted heads. They were much darker.
"Habbani" Jews with scroll "the Scroll of the Law"
Two realtively unmixed brothers from the same family of Habani jews from the Yemen/Hadramaut stand as body guards behind a Turkish looking and descended ruler of Jordan.
jews in Yemen were converted. There is no such thing as a "Jewish" people. Its a myth.
Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ I guess there's no such thing as a Christian people or a Muslim people by your definition.
Once again you speak from a place where knowledge is lacking.
Muslims do NOT claim to be a ethnic group and neither do Christians. Yet Jews have concocted a mythical history which supposedly ties them together as some wondering tribe, based on someone else history.
There is a professor by the name of Shlomo Sand who wrote a book titled The invention of the Jewish people. There is also another one title The Thirteenth Tribe by Arthur Koestler
quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: Greetings Phamily.
All this talk from the author of the Unknown Arabs and Dr. Wesley Muhammad who quotes him heavily, begs me to ask this critical question. Both claim the original Arabs were Blacks. Are there any Egyptian reliefs which depict these Black Arabs? Did they also mention them by name? All of the images of "Asiatics" coming in from Arabia I've seen are White. I am just trying to see if the ancient Ta-Merrians depicted in any art these "original" Black Arabs.
To answer your question, the vast majority of Asiatics recorded and depicted by Egyptians were from the Levant NOT Arabia. Though there were a few groups that were of Arabian descent namely the Yeha and other Midianite groups. All the surviving depictions of them show no color but depict them as tall men with wavy hair. I will say that even some surviving depictions of people from the Levant show black types as seen in the examples others have posted already.
Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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