the caption that the Theban Mapping Project gives is "The four races of Mankind"
However, it's very easy to see that that is not what the picture is showing. If we go by the categories given what you have in this photo is from left to right:
is
LIBYAN, LIBYAN, NUBIAN, NUBIAN, NUBIAN
2 libyans and 3 Nubians !!!
-no Asiatics or Egyptians in a picture titled "The Four races of mankind"
here's the whole set of race pictures from the Seti tomb
If you look elsewhere in the Book of gates you do see four so called race types with clothing which matches the illustration but not all together like the illustration. The clothing in the illustration is accurately illustrated. If you go by that and apply it to the photo version of "The Four Races of Mankind" you see
first two obvious Libyans
next are two figures with the paint completely faded. But their clothing clearly matches the last, fifth figure with the paint still in tact, the Nubian. This is obvious. You can sill see the form of the figures in relief. They are not Asiatic because their sashes are wider and straighter than the Asiatic and they are not Egyptians because Egyptians are depicted with no sash at all. The head has no feathers like the Asiatic and the hair is rounded on the bottom not cut straight horizontally on the bottom like the Asiatic.
It's clearly not "four Races" it's two races, two of them Libyan and three of them Nubian.
Obviously the caption "The Four Races of Mankind" is incorrect as it applies to this picture.
note: There are other illustration versions of paintings in the tomb that are shown in the Theban Mapping project site but the familiar "Four Races" illustration pictured at top is not one of them. Regardless, the photo is captioned wrong. It should be called Libyans and Nubians.
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
^Dear child, what you have there is a fragment of a bigger scene. Why so rash honey? There are four Nubians in the one you have. This is the rest of the scene:
The "Familiar" depiction is accurate. It merely omits the repetes of each race, that is all. Relax lady.
Posts: 2025 | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged |
the caption that the Theban Mapping Project gives is "The four races of Mankind"
However, it's very easy to see that that is not what the picture is showing. If we go by the categories given what you have in this photo is from left to right:
is
LIBYAN, LIBYAN, NUBIAN, NUBIAN, NUBIAN
2 libyans and 3 Nubians !!!
-no Asiatics or Egyptians in a picture titled "The Four races of mankind"
here's the whole set of race pictures from the Seti tomb
If you look elsewhere in the Book of gates you do see four so called race types with clothing which matches the illustration but not all together like the illustration. The clothing in the illustration is accurately illustrated. If you go by that and apply it to the photo version of "The Four Races of Mankind" you see
first two obvious Libyans
next are two figures with the paint completely faded. But their clothing clearly matches the last, fifth figure with the paint still in tact, the Nubian. This is obvious. You can sill see the form of the figures in relief. They are not Asiatic because their sashes are wider and straighter than the Asiatic and they are not Egyptians because Egyptians are depicted with no sash at all. The head has no feathers like the Asiatic and the hair is rounded on the bottom not cut straight horizontally on the bottom like the Asiatic.
It's clearly not "four Races" it's two races, two of them Libyan and three of them Nubian.
Obviously the caption "The Four Races of Mankind" is incorrect as it applies to this picture.
note: There are other illustration versions of paintings in the tomb that are shown in the Theban Mapping project site but the familiar "Four Races" illustration pictured at top is not one of them. Regardless, the photo is captioned wrong. It should be called Libyans and Nubians.
Again there are no races dipicted on the Book of Gates, the book of Gates was made to show the Foreign people that were close enough the the Nile Valley to be able to get ressurected in the After life.
as a table of nations -- terminology borrowed from the description of Genesis chapter 10 -- when it hardly is a picturing of all the different nations known to 19th Dynasty Egypt. In fact to compare it to Genesis 10 it would only be the four sons of Hham: Kush, Missrayim, Fut, and Kena`an.
Others see it as the four races of man known to the AE. The problem with that is race science was unknown to the author of the text or the artist of the painting. At that time there were only two broad colour groupings known anywhere in the ancient world, dark and light. And whats more important to the ancients was the ethnicity or nationality. Belonging to a colour group didn't automatically imply kinship relations among all the ethnies sharing similar colour.
Another view, of those who havent seen the vignette as a whole but seen only sections of one group, is that it portrays immigrants or mercenaries or such. Actually everyone depicted is dead and in the Dwat or underworld. And on top of that, they are freshly dead today so to speak since the Book of Gates chapter by chapter is a record of the Suns travel after sunset and before sunrise.
I'll leave it to you or others to explain what the Book of Gates is but I will say that the scene is showing peoples under Re who are eligible for Osirian resurrection. As such, one people known to the AE are intentinally left out. They being the Hua Nebu i.e. the northern people of the Aegean.
There's little left to free interpretation or other than an understanding that real people complexions are shown because the painting was only made for one reason, to be an illustration of a text. The text that it illustrates is right above the head of Heru and four groups of peoples. In each of the tombs where the vignette appears the skin tones may vary some from tomb to tomb but are still within the general range of colour of the ethnic group.
I probably didn't get to many points you want brought out but we can all continue discussing this important document relating to Kmtyw identity in the most sacred of all contexts, life after death for the worthy souls. I hope that anybody with any questions about anything I post will feel free to hit me or just raise the question for the group in general to all chime in with their takes. The more we share the more we all learn..
posted
Its obvious to any person with a mediocre training in Ancient Egyptians History that the people depicted in the Book of Gates are not the only Races known to Egyptians, the best dipiction of such a scene would be the Tomb of Rekhmire it has races of people from the nations subject to Egypt, including Ageans and Puntites(Eritreans and Hebesha) as well as other Asiatics not found on the Book of Gates. Image from the Tomb of Rekhmire
/
[/quote]
Then again we have been down this road with Afronut, its obvious he is stupid and can't retain anything so he creates threads on subjects already adressed. Excuse me the proper label should be Retarded not stupid...Silly me
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
It baffels me, the Israelites had a very advanced book of Races, that included Europeans like Greeks Persians etc. Yet, people expect the Egyptians who had an older civilization, a larger empire, and more subject peoples to only know about four races. also the four races in the book of dead do not contain white people, the Lybians are depicted as a Baige color(Pale Brown) and the Asiatics are yellow..No whites. The Egyptians depicted certian white groups in other Tombs, from a Book I used to own called Treasures of egypt and Nubia they depicted plenty of blue eyed and Red Haired foreign people.
This shows how ameteur Afronut is on the Subject yet intelligent posters still choose to engage him as if he is here for academic discusssion.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Gigantic: ^Dear child, what you have there is a fragment of a bigger scene. Why so rash honey? There are four Nubians in the one you have. This is the rest of the scene:
The "Familiar" depiction is accurate. It merely omits the repetes of each race, that is all. Relax lady.
This is a modern illustration. Please post the actual photo of the painting on the wall. The website has many actual photos.
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun: The Egyptians depicted certian white groups in other Tombs, from a Book I used to own called Treasures of egypt and Nubia they depicted plenty of blue eyed and Red Haired foreign people. [/QB]
please post actual photos from the walls of provide link of depiction of white groups
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
Again there are no races dipicted on the Book of Gates, the book of Gates was made to show the Foreign people that were close enough the the Nile Valley to be able to get ressurected in the After life.
thank you Jari-Ankhamun for all your info. Are you saying that the title "Four races of Mankind" is completely made up? Is it a mistake or a manipulation for some agenda? You mentioned the text of the Book of Gates. Assuming that it is accurate here is what it says on this issue:
_____________________________________________ The Book of Gates by E. A. Wallis Budge [1905] (original title) The short form of the Book of am-tuat and the Book of Gates
p. 151, second paragraph:
On the left of the path of the boat of Ra are:--1. A hawk-headed god, leaning upon a staff; he is called Horus. 2. Four groups, each group containing four men. The first are RETH, the second are AAMU, the third axe NEHESU, and the fourth are THEMEHU. The RETH are Egyptians, the AAMU are dwellers in the deserts to the east and north-east of Egypt, the NEHESU are the black races and NEGROES, and the THEMEHU are the fair-skinned Libyans. 3. Twelve bearded beings, each of whom grasps with both hands the body of a long serpent; these are called the "Holders of the period of time in Ament." 4. Eight bearded gods, who are called the "Sovereign chiefs of the Tuat." The hieroglyphic text which relates to these groups reads:-- _______________________________________
Above the phrase "four groups" is used and also the word "race" right after that. It defines:
"the NEHESU are the black races and NEGROES"
and goes on to talk about the other three
"people will learn" .
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
Again there are no races dipicted on the Book of Gates, the book of Gates was made to show the Foreign people that were close enough the the Nile Valley to be able to get ressurected in the After life.
thank you Jari-Ankhamun for all your info. Are you saying that the title "Four races of Mankind" is completely made up? Is it a mistake or a manipulation for some agenda? You mentioned the text of the Book of Gates. Assuming that it is accurate here is what it says on this issue:
_____________________________________________ The Book of Gates by E. A. Wallis Budge [1905] (original title) The short form of the Book of am-tuat and the Book of Gates
p. 151, second paragraph:
On the left of the path of the boat of Ra are:--1. A hawk-headed god, leaning upon a staff; he is called Horus. 2. Four groups, each group containing four men. The first are RETH, the second are AAMU, the third axe NEHESU, and the fourth are THEMEHU. The RETH are Egyptians, the AAMU are dwellers in the deserts to the east and north-east of Egypt, the NEHESU are the black races and NEGROES, and the THEMEHU are the fair-skinned Libyans. 3. Twelve bearded beings, each of whom grasps with both hands the body of a long serpent; these are called the "Holders of the period of time in Ament." 4. Eight bearded gods, who are called the "Sovereign chiefs of the Tuat." The hieroglyphic text which relates to these groups reads:-- _______________________________________
Above the phrase "four groups" is used and also the word "race" right after that. It defines:
"the NEHESU are the black races and NEGROES"
and goes on to talk about the other three
"people will learn" .
Yes, there is no races on the book of gates. The complete if you were to see it, sadly I don't have the book anymore, anyway the original has the four groups being led by Horus, its pure religious in nature. Also the whole negro comment proves the racist Eurocentric propaganda at work. Also the Lybians are not fair skinned they are no more lighter than the asiatic. What it is the Euroclown saw that his race was not depicted and decided to turned the pale brown lybians to resemble them.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Here is the photo of the actual scene on the wall:
As you can see, they're the same. Like I said, the 19th century rendition is accurate. Guys like Jari, have an axe to grind. All you'll get from people like him is a biased review of the art. Afrocentrism is a mental illness. Stay mainstream and you will be alright.
quote:Originally posted by the lion: please post actual photos from the walls of provide link of depiction of white groups
quote:Originally posted by Gigantic: Here is the photo of the actual scene on the wall:
As you can see, they're the same. Like I said, the 19th century rendition is accurate. Guys like Jari, have an axe to grind. All you'll get from people like him is a biased review of the art. Afrocentrism is a mental illness. Stay mainstream and you will be alright.
quote:Originally posted by the lion: please post actual photos from the walls of provide link of depiction of white groups
Where in that photo they are the same? Again we HAVE the real Image so we know what it looks like dummy. Also why are there different renditions of the "races" in different tombs. Like I said its not showing any races but who am I kidding you are a troll, and no amount of evidence will educate you. You seek to get a rise out of black people via the Internet which seems to be the whole purpose of Peckerwoods. Dedicating websites, blogs, and as in your case thread after thread on the same silly non sense.
Sadly the people who call themselves educated don't have the sense to see how the Negro is your life, they don't see how pathetic you are so they respond to your bullshit threads.
You have already lost this discussion back on Reloaded and the pathetic image you posted shows how stupid and desperate you are.
you're dismissed.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
^Listem Turd, I could care less if you want to call them group, team, race, whatever! Egyptians still considered themselves "different" from the rest. It is as simple as that. I supplied the original, which shows the 18th century drawing to be pretty much accurate. Now buzz off, 'cause YOU LOSE.
-------------------- Will destroy all Black Lies Posts: 2025 | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged |
Again there are no races dipicted on the Book of Gates, the book of Gates was made to show the Foreign people that were close enough the the Nile Valley to be able to get ressurected in the After life.
thank you Jari-Ankhamun for all your info. Are you saying that the title "Four races of Mankind" is completely made up? Is it a mistake or a manipulation for some agenda? You mentioned the text of the Book of Gates. Assuming that it is accurate here is what it says on this issue:
_____________________________________________ The Book of Gates by E. A. Wallis Budge [1905] (original title) The short form of the Book of am-tuat and the Book of Gates
p. 151, second paragraph:
On the left of the path of the boat of Ra are:--1. A hawk-headed god, leaning upon a staff; he is called Horus. 2. Four groups, each group containing four men. The first are RETH, the second are AAMU, the third axe NEHESU, and the fourth are THEMEHU. The RETH are Egyptians, the AAMU are dwellers in the deserts to the east and north-east of Egypt, the NEHESU are the black races and NEGROES, and the THEMEHU are the fair-skinned Libyans. 3. Twelve bearded beings, each of whom grasps with both hands the body of a long serpent; these are called the "Holders of the period of time in Ament." 4. Eight bearded gods, who are called the "Sovereign chiefs of the Tuat." The hieroglyphic text which relates to these groups reads:-- _______________________________________
Above the phrase "four groups" is used and also the word "race" right after that. It defines:
"the NEHESU are the black races and NEGROES"
and goes on to talk about the other three
"people will learn" .
Yes, there is no races on the book of gates. The complete if you were to see it, sadly I don't have the book anymore, anyway the original has the four groups being led by Horus, its pure religious in nature. Also the whole negro comment proves the racist Eurocentric propaganda at work. Also the Lybians are not fair skinned they are no more lighter than the asiatic. What it is the Euroclown saw that his race was not depicted and decided to turned the pale brown lybians to resemble them.
Jari-Ankhamun, you gave me the link to the text. It says "Negro" and "race" in it. It's not my link it's your link. It may be mistranslated, I don't know but you gave me a text, I went to it, you said where did it define race, I quoted where it did
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
Again there are no races dipicted on the Book of Gates, the book of Gates was made to show the Foreign people that were close enough the the Nile Valley to be able to get ressurected in the After life.
thank you Jari-Ankhamun for all your info. Are you saying that the title "Four races of Mankind" is completely made up? Is it a mistake or a manipulation for some agenda? You mentioned the text of the Book of Gates. Assuming that it is accurate here is what it says on this issue:
_____________________________________________ The Book of Gates by E. A. Wallis Budge [1905] (original title) The short form of the Book of am-tuat and the Book of Gates
p. 151, second paragraph:
On the left of the path of the boat of Ra are:--1. A hawk-headed god, leaning upon a staff; he is called Horus. 2. Four groups, each group containing four men. The first are RETH, the second are AAMU, the third axe NEHESU, and the fourth are THEMEHU. The RETH are Egyptians, the AAMU are dwellers in the deserts to the east and north-east of Egypt, the NEHESU are the black races and NEGROES, and the THEMEHU are the fair-skinned Libyans. 3. Twelve bearded beings, each of whom grasps with both hands the body of a long serpent; these are called the "Holders of the period of time in Ament." 4. Eight bearded gods, who are called the "Sovereign chiefs of the Tuat." The hieroglyphic text which relates to these groups reads:-- _______________________________________
Above the phrase "four groups" is used and also the word "race" right after that. It defines:
"the NEHESU are the black races and NEGROES"
and goes on to talk about the other three
"people will learn" .
Yes, there is no races on the book of gates. The complete if you were to see it, sadly I don't have the book anymore, anyway the original has the four groups being led by Horus, its pure religious in nature. Also the whole negro comment proves the racist Eurocentric propaganda at work. Also the Lybians are not fair skinned they are no more lighter than the asiatic. What it is the Euroclown saw that his race was not depicted and decided to turned the pale brown lybians to resemble them.
Jari-Ankhamun, you gave me the link to the text. It says "Negro" and "race" in it. It's not my link it's your link. It may be mistranslated, I don't know but you gave me a text, I went to it, you said where did it define race, I quoted where it did
Again there is no RACE in the Book of Gates Europeans translated it and put their culture onto it.
Here in bold is what the Egyptians put: On the left of the path of the boat of Ra are:--1. A hawk-headed god, leaning upon a staff; he is called Horus. 2. Four groups, each group containing four men. The first are RETH, the second are [/b]AAMU[/b], the third axe NEHESU, and the fourth are THEMEHU.
Here is waht was ADDED onto the original.
The RETH are Egyptians, the AAMU are dwellers in the deserts to the east and north-east of Egypt, the NEHESU are the black races and NEGROES, and the THEMEHU are the fair-skinned Libyans
again you are being willfully stupid to suggest that a Mistranslation or to quote that was added has any merit.
you are dismissed
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun: Also the Lybians are not fair skinned they are no more lighter than the asiatic. What it is the Euroclown saw that his race was not depicted and decided to turned the pale brown lybians to resemble them. [/QB]
What country today has the most people who have Asiatic ancestry as depicted in the Book of Gates in the Seti I tomb?
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun: Also the Lybians are not fair skinned they are no more lighter than the asiatic. What it is the Euroclown saw that his race was not depicted and decided to turned the pale brown lybians to resemble them.
What country today has the most people who have Asiatic ancestry as depicted in the Book of Gates in the Seti I tomb? [/QB]
What is the point of this senseless question? Are you suggesting the countries/Nationalities depicted in Egyptian Tombs are the same as Today?
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Gigantic: Here is the photo of the actual scene on the wall:
As you can see, they're the same. Like I said, the 19th century rendition is accurate. Guys like Jari, have an axe to grind. All you'll get from people like him is a biased review of the art. Afrocentrism is a mental illness. Stay mainstream and you will be alright.
quote:Originally posted by the lion: please post actual photos from the walls of provide link of depiction of white groups
stop being silly and saying "as you can see" about the photo. You can't tell anything from that very bad photo.
quote:Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun: Also the Lybians are not fair skinned they are no more lighter than the asiatic. What it is the Euroclown saw that his race was not depicted and decided to turned the pale brown lybians to resemble them.
What country today has the most people who have Asiatic ancestry as depicted in the Book of Gates in the Seti I tomb?
What is the point of this senseless question? Are you suggesting the countries/Nationalities depicted in Egyptian Tombs are the same as Today? [/QB]
I am saying that there are people living today who look like the Asiatics in the Book of Gates. Who are they and in what country can most of them be found? -unless you don't want to reveal it
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun: Also the Lybians are not fair skinned they are no more lighter than the asiatic. What it is the Euroclown saw that his race was not depicted and decided to turned the pale brown lybians to resemble them.
What country today has the most people who have Asiatic ancestry as depicted in the Book of Gates in the Seti I tomb?
What is the point of this senseless question? Are you suggesting the countries/Nationalities depicted in Egyptian Tombs are the same as Today?
I am saying that there are people living today who look like the Asiatics in the Book of Gates. Who are they and in what country can most of them be found? -unless you don't want to reveal it [/QB]
This is not about me, the Jest of this thread was about if the book of gates shows races or not. I proved it does not and now you are trying to reverse the conversation on your stupidity by saying that the book of gates had races like Negro when an elementry level of basic Grammar shows that such vocabulary was added.
Anyway, lets play your game...Asiatics have moved across the world esp. during the middle ages under the banner of Islamic civilization. Arabs and Asiatics have penetrated down into Sudan and other parts of Africa and the Mid. East so your question is rather futile.
My suggestion is you read a basic book on the Various Arab and Asiatic migrations and civilizations.
Asking pointless questions to save face shows how ignorant you are.
Again...
YOU ARE DISMISSED...
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged |
The Theban Mapping Project seem to have done an o.k. job documenting some of the tombs. It's the only source of large numbers of photos from the book of Gates that I am aware of. When you look at the controversial illustration
which is not even an illustration from the illustrations from The Theban Mapping Project and you compare it to the photo that is from The Theban Mapping project of the same title "The Four Races of Mankind" it is obviously not a proper caption because only two types of people are represented Libyans and Nubians. There are also scenes with groups of these figures yet none of them are called "The Four Races of Mankind". You could have a scene with 10 people of each of four races and call this scene "The Four Races of Mankind" 10 of these 10 of those etc. But there is no such picture. It seems to be scene of various people involved in afterlife procedures rather than to be a demonstration of the "different races" as Jari-Ankhamun said. There is a text of the Book of gates. It's difficult to know exactly what it means. It does not seem to be talking that specifically about race. Also words are used, it's hard to know if the translation is accurate even if Walis Budge.
The illustration is misleading
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
Anyway, lets play your game...Asiatics have moved across the world esp. during the middle ages under the banner of Islamic civilization. Arabs and Asiatics have penetrated down into Sudan and other parts of Africa and the Mid. East so your question is rather futile.
YOU ARE DISMISSED... [/QB]
we are not talking about the middle ages we are talking about 1290 BC to 1279 BC
stop playing games. Where did the ancient Egyptians live? In the country now called Egypt. Where did the Persians come from? In the country now called Iran. Where were the Sumerians from? From the country now known as Iraq. Asia is a huge continent. It includes areas such as Mongolia far from Egypt.
It is a very reasonable question, which Asiatics are being refered to in the Book of Gates? Obviously it's not all of Asia. If you don't know say you don't know.
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
we are not talking about the middle ages we are talking about 1290 BC to 1279 BC
You are really ignorant or either just a dishonest slime when you are exposed for being poorly educated on a subject. Either way your spin tactics will not work on me.
Here is the original question as presented to me.
What country today has the most people who have Asiatic ancestry as depicted in the Book of Gates in the Seti I tomb?
Now due to the fact that your comprehension skills border line retarded let me break down your own failed attempt at a spin tactic and red herring.
1) What country today-The Time you are asking for is the Present day
Has the most people who have Asiatic ancestry-You are asking for a nation who have a people with the MOST ASIATIC ANCESTRY
as depicted in the Book of Gates as depicted in Seti's tomb.-So now this nation HAS TO BE depicted in the Book of Gates and be recognized today by the features they have on Seti's tomb.
stop playing games. The only one playing any games here is you with your childish questions.
Where did the ancient Egyptians live? In the country now called Egypt. Again the Egypt depicted in the Pharonic phase is different than the one today. Migrations and Islam have changed the country dramatically. The people who resemble the Egypians are the Upper Egyptian people.
Where did the Persians come from? In the country now called Iran. Again the Persian have mixed heavily with Turks and Arabs and do not represent the original Persians.
Where were the Sumerians from? From the country now known as Iraq. The Ancient Sumarians are different than the present Iraqi people.
Asia is a huge continent.So why are you asking such a stupid question.
It is a very reasonable question,Actually it is not.
which Asiatics are being refered to in the Book of Gates? Obviously it's not all of Asia. If you don't know say you don't know. If you want to know so bad why don't you research it. Im not a F#cking storage of information, bitch. Get off your ass and F#cking do the research.
If you wanted to know who the Asiatics depicted are I provided it in the link. Which you read and typed here, again an attept at saving face.
The Ammu, dwellers of the Deset, Hmmm could it be the Hyksos, who's name means Desert Princes??
Aamu was the contemporary term used to distinguish the people of Avaris, the Hyksos capital in Egypt, from Egyptians. Egyptologists conventionally translate aamu as "asiatics" The Jewish historian, Josephus, in his Contra Apionem, claims that Manetho was the first to use the Greek term, Hyksos, incorrectly translated as "shepherd-kings". Contemporary Egyptians during the Hyksos invasion designated them as hikau khausut, which meant "rulers of foreign countries"
You happy now, I did the work for your lazy ass. As far as the modern nation of the Hyksos, Who knows. Some say they fled to Minoan and set up shop in Knosos. Some say they fled to the Canaan. Again the term Ammu is a blanket term and the dipiction is a blanket caricature. There were different Tribes and looks to Asiatics during Egypt's time. So again your question is nothing but a red herring and a sad attempt at saving face.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged |
I wonder if lion needs more help on who the Asiatics are?
The nerve to tell me "Stop playing games"!!!!???-bitch please.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
The Story of The Real Red Herring aka pot calls kettle black
Jari-Ankhamun I think it was you who threw the monkey wrench into MY thread. Look at my original post. Was it a general post about the so called "Four Races" in the Book of Gates? No read it again. It was about the fact that there isn't a photo source from the actual walls that matches the illustration that is so often circulated. The photo that is captioned "Four Races of Mankind" doesn't even show four types of people, it only shows two. Read it again. I was talking about a specific illustration and a specific photo. But you took that as an opportunity to try to make general comments about the concept of "The Four Races" and look like a smarty pants. My thread wasn't about race it was about a photo not matching an illustration and a caption to the photo which was not even correct. So you went into another topic which might have been called "Race is not mentioned in the Book of Gates" So you have been exposed, the herring is you. People have informed me of your fish-like ways here at ES. I want a written apology, plus your language was un-called for.
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by the lion: The Story of The Real Red Herring aka pot calls kettle black
Jari-Ankhamun I think it was you who threw the monkey wrench into MY thread. Look at my original post. Was it a general post about the so called "Four Races" in the Book of Gates? No read it again. It was about the fact that there isn't a photo source from the actual walls that matches the illustration that is so often circulated. The photo that is captioned "Four Races of Mankind" doesn't even show four types of people, it only shows two. Read it again. I was talking about a specific illustration and a specific photo. But you took that as an opportunity to try to make general comments about the concept of "The Four Races" and look like a smarty pants. My thread wasn't about race it was about a photo not matching an illustration and a caption to the photo which was not even correct. So you went into another topic which might have been called "Race is not mentioned in the Book of Gates" So you have been exposed, the herring is you. People have informed me of your fish-like ways here at ES. I want a written apology, plus your language was un-called for.
The Title of the thread contains "FOUR RACES". It does'nt matter if there are Two or Four Races depicted as there are NO RACES IN THE book of Gates..PERIOD. IT IS A RELIGIOUS text reguarding the people closest to Egypt that can qualify for resurrection.
Also my original post was directed at Afronut, if you read my posts you can see I NAMED HIM as the culprit due to his constant misunderstanding of the Book of Gates and his constant use of the pic to make misinterpret the Egyptians. I realize the photo is fake, THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT OF MY POST to prove that the Book of Gates "Photo" is a FALSE TRANSLATION that Europeans added their Image of Race onto. LIKE I said my posts were not even adressed to you but AFRONUT..AKA GIGANTIC. You obviously thought they were directed at you so You took it upon yourself to quote Translations that WERE ADDED onto the subject text, where you were exposed. Had you left it at that this conversation would have never came to this, so you decided to ask some bogus question to save face.
People Have informed you about my ways...LOL. Oh No Im Gonna Lose SOOOO much sleep becuase People I don't even know Gossip about me to Lion on E.S.
GTFOH, On some High school Sh@t.
I just exposed to everyone here your constant spin tactics you pulled not only on this thread
Written Apology-You're Kidding Right???? I mean do you think I CARE ENOUGH about you to Apologize for NOTHING. WHAT FOR, For exposing you for the Spin tactician you are, You tried to pull games with the wrong person.
Sad part is We Agree on the Subject and my post was originally Directed at Afronut NOT YOU, So get over yourself kid. Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged |
you missed the whole point of this thread that modern illustrations are different from the actual photos of the original paintings on the wall. Then you go off posting another one.
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun: You took it upon yourself to quote Translations that WERE ADDED onto the subject text, where you were exposed. [/QB]
all I did was go to the link you gave and quoted from it so you exposed yourself here. It's a quote directly from Wallis Budge's book:
The Book of Gates by E. A. Wallis Budge [1905] (original title) The short form of the Book of am-tuat and the Book of Gates
___________________________________
p. 151, second paragraph:
On the left of the path of the boat of Ra are:--1. A hawk-headed god, leaning upon a staff; he is called Horus. 2. Four groups, each group containing four men. The first are RETH, the second are AAMU, the third axe NEHESU, and the fourth are THEMEHU. The RETH are Egyptians, the AAMU are dwellers in the deserts to the east and north-east of Egypt, the NEHESU are the black races and NEGROES, and the THEMEHU are the fair-skinned Libyans. 3. Twelve bearded beings, each of whom grasps with both hands the body of a long serpent; these are called the "Holders of the period of time in Ament." 4. Eight bearded gods, who are called the "Sovereign chiefs of the Tuat." The hieroglyphic text which relates to these groups reads:
__________________________________________
You didn't tell me disregard the commentary
Here's the actual Book of Gates translations pertaining to Budge's commentary which he uses to describe the painting that is associated with the text.
____________________________________________
"Hail , journey on, O KHUTI, for verily the gods are content with that which they possess, and the KHU are content with their homesteads. Their food [cometh] from Sekhet-Aru, and their offerings from that which springeth up therein. Offerings are made unto them upon earth from the estate of Sekhet-Aru."
To the four bearded gods Ra saith:--"Holy are ye, O HENBI gods, ye overseers of the cords in Amentet. [O stablish ye fields and give [them] to the gods and to the KHU (i.e., spirits) [after] they have been
p. 151
measured in Sekhet-Aaru. Let them give fields and sand to the gods and to the souls who are in the Tuat. Their food shall be from Sekhet-Aaru, and their offerings from the things which spring forth therein]."
Horus saith unto the creatures of Ra who dwell in the Black Land (Qemt, i.e., Egypt) and in the Red Land (i.e., the deserts which lie on each side of the Black Land formed of the mud of the Nile):--"Magical protection be unto you, O ye creatures of Ra, who have come into being from the Great One who is at the head of heaven! Let there be breath to your nostrils, and let your linen swathings be unloosed! Ye are the tears 1 of the eye of my splendour in your name of RETH (i.e., men). Mighty of issue (AA-MU) ye have come into being in your name of AAMU; Sekhet hath created them, and it is she who delivereth (or, avengeth) their souls. I masturbated [to produce you], and I was content with the hundreds of thousands [of beings] who came forth from me in your
p. 155
name of NEHESU (i.e., Negroes); Horus made them to come into being, and it is he who avengeth their souls. I sought out mine Eye, and ye came into being in your name of THEMEHU; Sekhet hath created them, and she avengeth their souls."
_________________________________________
MY question to you is (I don't know the answer) is why are these particular four groups being talked about? Like you said in the Book of Gates other groups are mentioned and depicted in paintings such as Syrians. On the other hand the Greeks used to refer to the whole of Africa as Libya. That's irrelevant as a specific relation. But from that somebody might assume that in this case with the Egyptians that they might categorize Syrians as part of Libyans or no different from Libyans. You're going to say no, there are more than four groups depicted in the Book of Gates. My question is are the "four bearded Gods" the same as Nubian, Libyan, Asiatic, Egyptian? They don't all seem to have beards but it's hard to tell. It's confusing because four bearded Gods are being talked about an apparently with this text is some painting showing groups of people of four types.
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by the lion: you missed the whole point of this thread that modern illustrations are different from the actual photos of the original paintings on the wall. Then you go off posting another one.
Don't be a fool, troll. No missed the point of this troll thread.
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by KING: Wow Lion you really think that the Egyptians were mulattoes?
All because of the Book of Gates. Even though Nehesu does not mean Negro.
What makes you think this?
Peace
Because you see a wide variety of facial features and skin tones in art throughout the dynasties.
Nhsw refers to the people to the South who were Negro but there is some disagreement as to it's exact translation and it's use in different periods.
Egypt led into the levant and people of various races were going back and forth mingling, trading and sometimes battling from even before the first dyn.
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
I hope you realize that the Egyptians Claimed that the people to the south, Were born of the same people. I forget where I read this but it is in one of these threads.
Also What features does nubians have that Egyptians did not have. Don't forget that the people of Punt who lived in probably the Horn region were painted the EXACT same as Egyptians.
I love you excitement for the Unity of Races you promote that grew Egypt. All I can say is that the early dynastys were almost exclusively African. As for the levant that comes into the New Kingdom with the Hyksos.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
@ lion, I posed this question towards another individual, but it seems you might be under the same mindset, so give me your take on the following...
quote:Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:
What's your take on the extreme tropical adaptations of the ancient Egyptians being displayed from pre-dynastic throughout all dynasties?
I say this because you seem to be an individual who might like to equate modern Egyptians who resemble SW Asians and coastal north Africans as being most closest to ancient Egyptians when in fact these populations from coastal north Africa and SW Asia do not exhibit these tropical adaptations, in fact coastal north Africans exhibit intermediate body plans between Europeans and S.S.A'. While the ancient Egyptians exhibited extreme tropical adaptations wherein their brachial and crural indices were actually higher than in many S.S.A populations.
You might try to throw in "Caucasoid" features, but you forget about populations like the Tutsis, Ethiopians, Somalis etc...who also exhibit these so called "Caucasoid" features, and are commonly referred to as "Caucasoids" by the erroneous scholars, but these African populations such as Tutsis, Somalians etc.. also exhibit these extreme tropical adaptations, and some of the darkest skin in Africa and in fact genetically are African.
So what's your take? Let's hope you use logic to confirm the truth.
Let's just say for example you think these so called "Caucasoid" features in the indigenous African populations I mentioned came from wandering "Caucasoids", then how come these wandering "Caucasoids" didn't pass on the skin genes for lighter pigmentation as is obvious amongst more northern coastal Africans where the SLC24A5 derived allele is significantly present (60-100%) in geographically proximate populations in north Africa, and how come the limb proportions of these indigenous Africans were not affected in any way instead are still considered to be extremely tropically adapted, while those coastal north Africans are intermediate between Europeans and S.S.A's?
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
| IP: Logged |
Read this that states the unity between the Kemetians and "Nubians":
"When his majesty took action against the Asiatic sand-dwellers, his majesty made an army of many tens of thousands from all of Upper Egypt: ...; from Lower Egypt: ...; and from Irtjet-Nubians, Medja-Nubians, Yam-Nubians, Wawat-Nubians, Kaau-Nubians; and from Tjemeh-land." --The Autobiography of Weni, Lichtheim M, Ancient Egyptian Literature Vol.1, p. 19
Now I don't want to put too much pressure on you but do we have detailed alegience with anyone from the Levant. All these socalled Nubians were linked with Egypt, some looked like Egyptians and some had more broader features. Now we know that Broad and Narrow features are built into the diversity of Egypt so we should not be too quick to claim so and so features are non"Nubian".
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
Read this that states the unity between the Kemetians and "Nubians":
"When his majesty took action against the Asiatic sand-dwellers, his majesty made an army of many tens of thousands from all of Upper Egypt: ...; from Lower Egypt: ...; and from Irtjet-Nubians, Medja-Nubians, Yam-Nubians, Wawat-Nubians, Kaau-Nubians; and from Tjemeh-land." --The Autobiography of Weni, Lichtheim M, Ancient Egyptian Literature Vol.1, p. 19
Now I don't want to put too much pressure on you but do we have detailed alegience with anyone from the Levant. All these so called Nubians were linked with Egypt, some looked like Egyptians and some had more broader features. Now we know that Broad and Narrow features are built into the diversity of Egypt so we should not be too quick to claim so and so features are non"Nubian".
Peace
You said "some had broader features"
broader than what?
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by MindoverMatter718: [QB] @ lion, I posed this question towards another individual, but it seems you might be under the same mindset, so give me your take on the following...
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:
What's your take on the extreme tropical adaptations of the ancient Egyptians being displayed from pre-dynastic throughout all dynasties?
I'm not sure what you mean by "extreme adaptations" The largest accounting for the variant types in AE is admixture from every direction, including North regardless of different continent name. -from the earliest dynasties on
quote:Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:
I say this because you seem to be an individual who might like to equate modern Egyptians who resemble SW Asians and coastal north Africans as being most closest to ancient Egyptians when in fact these populations from coastal north Africa and SW Asia do not exhibit these tropical adaptations, in fact coastal north Africans exhibit intermediate body plans between Europeans and S.S.A'. While the ancient Egyptians exhibited extreme tropical adaptations wherein their brachial and crural indices were actually higher than in many S.S.A populations.
that's not my idea
quote:Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:
You might try to throw in "Caucasoid" features, but you forget about populations like the Tutsis, Ethiopians, Somalis etc...who also exhibit these so called "Caucasoid" features, and are commonly referred to as "Caucasoids" by the erroneous scholars, but these African populations such as Tutsis, Somalians etc..
The word "Caucasoid" features with the word placed in "quotes". If they put on white make up would they look like Roman statues? I don't think so. The features and skull type may not be exactly the same but similar. Taking random pictures from google of modern people from these areas is anecdotal and who knows the actual background of these people? We assume they are all some sort of pure breds?
quote:Originally posted by MindoverMatter718: also exhibit these extreme tropical adaptations, and some of the darkest skin in Africa and in fact genetically are African.
So what's your take? Let's hope you use logic to confirm the truth.
Let's just say for example you think these so called "Caucasoid" features in the indigenous African populations I mentioned came from wandering "Caucasoids",
I don't know if groups of people doing trade or migrating is akin to some "wandering" guy who lost his way. But O.K. "wandering" And mid way you have the Hyksos. At least ten more dynasties after that. Do we need to go on?
quote:Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:
then how come these wandering "Caucasoids" didn't pass on the skin genes for lighter pigmentation as is obvious amongst more northern coastal Africans where the SLC24A5 derived allele is significantly present (60-100%) in geographically proximate populations in north Africa, and how come the limb proportions of these indigenous Africans were not affected in any way instead are still considered to be extremely tropically adapted, while those coastal north Africans are intermediate between Europeans and S.S.A's?
What do you mean they didn't pass on the lighter pigmentation. Right off the bat we can see a darker Nubian type portrayed as different and with broader features than many of the relatively lighter reddish skin Egyptians who look similar in skin tone to many mid toned Arabs. You also see images on the walls of even lighter skinned, sometimes a yellowish tint especially in Royal women. Then you have some darker shades and broader features although not as much so as the Kushites who had their own civilization. Still other Egyptian statues have more Asian looking features. It's all over the "racial" map. The variety in the physical appearance of the ancient Egyptians is simply explained. It was a cosmopolitan civilization with jungle fever coming in from all sides. A bunch of mulattoes and mixed types. see Barack Obama for details
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by the lion: It was a cosmopolitan civilization with jungle fever coming in from all sides. A bunch of mulattoes and mixed types. see Barack Obabma for details
LOL! This says it all about the dumb bitch.
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
Why pick one of the simplest words of my post and pretend to ignore what I posted in the rest of my post?
What I meant is really how you claim that the features of Nubians were different then Egyptians. Thats why I said "Broader" and then I explained it more clearly even the Egyptians had broad features so it negates your idea of Nubians and Egyptians being different.
Also I listed to you a few of the Nubians who had allegiance with Egyptians, please list the Asiatics that Egyptians formed ties with.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
King, Mind, surely you must realize by now the familiar game the troll is playing. You will get no answers from it.
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by KING: Why pick one of the simplest words of my post and pretend to ignore what I posted in the rest of my post?
What I meant is really how you claim that the features of Nubians were different then Egyptians. Thats why I said "Broader" and then I explained it more clearly even the Egyptians had broad features so it negates your idea of Nubians and Egyptians being different.
Also I listed to you a few of the Nubians who had allegiance with Egyptians, please list the Asiatics that Egyptians formed ties with.
Peace
Some Egyptians were Nubian but the Egyptians were a lot more varied in appearance than the Nubians. This is a fact you should be able to agree with.At various times in their history, the ancient Egyptians set up trade routes to Cyprus, Crete, Greece, Syro-Palestine, Punt, and Nubia. Egyptian records as early as the Predynastic Period list some items that were brought into Egypt, including leopard skins, giraffe tails, monkeys, cattle, ivory, ostrich feathers and eggs, and gold. Punt (whose location is uncertain) was a major source for incense, while Syro-Palestine provided cedar, oils and unguents, and horses.
Egypt was closer to the Levant than Nubia therefore more intermingling was going was going on between the various races and nationalities. And they weren't as uptight as the Christians. Then the Hyksos came in and ruled for about a hundred years in the 15th dynasty. And people had a lot of hot sex on a platter-no lie. Later in the 25th dynasty the Nubians invaded and took over and spread the chocolate.
And the rest is history
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
The caption of the photo (Not the illustration) says "The Four Races of Mankind"
However there are only two types of people shown. Two of one type and three of the other. If it's a fragment of "The Four Races of Mankind" then there should be a photo (not an illustration) of the whole four races - but there is not.
That they even meant "race" as we understand it today is highly questionable.
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by MindoverMatter718: [QB] @ lion, I posed this question towards another individual, but it seems you might be under the same mindset, so give me your take on the following...
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:
What's your take on the extreme tropical adaptations of the ancient Egyptians being displayed from pre-dynastic throughout all dynasties?
I'm not sure what you mean by "extreme adaptations"
It means that the brachial and crural indices were higher than in many African populations, it is explained to you in the post, don't know how you missed it, because if you did, then you can't honestly answer the question posed.
The nature of the body plan was also investigated by comparing the intermembral, brachial, and crural indices for these samples with values obtained from the literature. No significant differences were found in either index through time for either sex. The raw values in Table 6 suggest that Egyptians had the “super-negroid” body plan described by Robins (1983). The values for the brachial and crural indices show that the distal segments of each limb are longer relative to the proximal segments than in many “African” populations (data from Aiello and Dean, 1990).---Sonia R. Zakrzewski
quote:Originally posted by the lion: The largest accounting for the variant types in AE is admixture from every direction, including North regardless of different continent name. -from the earliest dynasties on
Would you be able to provide archaeological and bio-anthropological data for this admixture?
quote:Originally posted by the lion:
quote:Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:
I say this because you seem to be an individual who might like to equate modern Egyptians who resemble SW Asians and coastal north Africans as being most closest to ancient Egyptians when in fact these populations from coastal north Africa and SW Asia do not exhibit these tropical adaptations, in fact coastal north Africans exhibit intermediate body plans between Europeans and S.S.A'. While the ancient Egyptians exhibited extreme tropical adaptations wherein their brachial and crural indices were actually higher than in many S.S.A populations.
that's not my idea
Of course its not , but you said they were a bunch of mulattoes, which in essence would make them akin to northern coastal Africans correct?
Point here is, these populations in northern coastal Africa who are mixed African/Eurasian their body plans are intermediate between Europeans and S.S.A's as one would expect due to their admxiture.
So if the AE's were mulattoes as you say then their limb proportions should reflect this and show an intermediary position as north coastal Africans do, but guess what? They don't, now why is that?
quote:Originally posted by the lion:
quote:Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:
You might try to throw in "Caucasoid" features, but you forget about populations like the Tutsis, Ethiopians, Somalis etc...who also exhibit these so called "Caucasoid" features, and are commonly referred to as "Caucasoids" by the erroneous scholars, but these African populations such as Tutsis, Somalians etc..
The word "Caucasoid" features with the word placed in "quotes". If they put on white make up would they look like Roman statues? I don't think so. The features and skull type may not be exactly the same but similar. Taking random pictures from google of modern people from these areas is anecdotal and who knows the actual background of these people? We assume they are all some sort of pure breds?
Point; the African populations I mentioned above were in the past considered to be "Caucasoid" and supposedly received these thinner features from non Africans.
quote:Originally posted by the lion:
quote:Originally posted by MindoverMatter718: also exhibit these extreme tropical adaptations, and some of the darkest skin in Africa and in fact genetically are African.
So what's your take? Let's hope you use logic to confirm the truth.
Let's just say for example you think these so called "Caucasoid" features in the indigenous African populations I mentioned came from wandering "Caucasoids",
I don't know if groups of people doing trade or migrating is akin to some "wandering" guy who lost his way. But O.K. "wandering" And mid way you have the Hyksos. At least ten more dynasties after that. Do we need to go on?
Hyksos, didn't enter Egypt till well after 1000 years after Dynastic Egypt arose, and again boils back down to the limb proportions of these individuals in question if they were mixed their limb proportions would show it.
Here's the thing though, ancient Egyptians limb proportions as already mentioned were noted to be more tropically adapted than many African populations, not intermediate between S.S.A'S and Europeans like northern coastal Africans either.
quote:Originally posted by the lion:
quote:Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:
then how come these wandering "Caucasoids" didn't pass on the skin genes for lighter pigmentation as is obvious amongst more northern coastal Africans where the SLC24A5 derived allele is significantly present (60-100%) in geographically proximate populations in north Africa, and how come the limb proportions of these indigenous Africans were not affected in any way instead are still considered to be extremely tropically adapted, while those coastal north Africans are intermediate between Europeans and S.S.A's?
What do you mean they didn't pass on the lighter pigmentation.
What I mean is, if populations such as the Tutsis, Somalis, Ethiopians, Eritreans etc.. received thinner features from non Africans, then how come when these populations are tested genetically the genes associated with lighter pigmentation, which is noticeable amongst northern coastal Africans, isn't present in these African populations I mentioned?
quote:Originally posted by the lion: It was a cosmopolitan civilization with jungle fever coming in from all sides. A bunch of mulattoes and mixed types. see Barack Obama for details
So the ancient Egyptians were first generation mulattoes like Barack?
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
[/quote]
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic