posted
Kedar Tribe Song of Songs 1:5 I am dark, but lovely, you daughters of Jerusalem, like Kedar's tents, like Solomon's curtains. (WEB KJV JPS ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
For I have chosen him, so that he will direct his children and his household after him to keep the way of the Lord by doing what is right and just, so that the Lord will bring about for Abraham what he has promised him. (Gen. 18:19).
And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; "Oh my sons! Allah hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of Islam." Were ye witnesses when death appeared before Jacob? Behold, he said to his sons: "What will ye worship after me?" They said: "We shall worship Thy Allah and the Allah of thy fathers, of Abraham, Isma'il and Isaac,- the one (True) Allah. To Him we bow (in Islam)." Surah 2:132-133
In both of these verses from the Bible and also from the Holy Quran, Allah makes mention that all of Abrahams children was blessed not just one particular group of people. These verses are similar in comparison to the fact that it confirms that Allah chose Abraham and all of his children, not just the children of Isaac and his descendants.
There claim is that the Prophet Ibrahim made his covenant with Isaac, when it is a well known fact that Hajar was Ibrahim wife, which in Allah’’s eyes, had to be more than just a maidservant to give her the firstborn son and not Sarai, who was obviously the reason why Ibrahim was sonless. (Genesis 16:3)
Another interesting thing that I noticed in the Bible, is that, Allah talks with Hajar on more than one occasion in the Bible through the form of an angel, but not once does he ever talk to Sarai or send and angel to talk to Sarai. Genesis 16:(7-14) Genesis 21;(16-19)
Somehow in the story of the Ibrahim in the Genesis gets a little fuzzy. Follow me here: In Genesis 17:25; Ismail was thirteen years old when Allah made his covenant with Ibrahim, he was even circumcised like Allah commanded Ibrahim(Genesis 17 (1-14)
Remember Now: Ismail is now about fourteen years old . Follow me here: Genesis 21:14-16) 14.And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and a bottle of water, and gave it unto Hagar,” putting it on her shoulder, and the child“, and sent her away: and she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beersheba. 15 .When the water in the bottle was gone, she put the boy under one of the bushes. 16 .Then she went off and sat down nearby, about a bowshot away, for she thought, "I cannot watch the boy die." And as she sat there nearby, she began to sob. 17 .God heard the boy crying, and the angel of God called to Hagar from heaven and said to her, "What is the matter, Hagar? Do not be afraid; God has heard the boy crying as he lies there. 18 Lift the boy up and take him by the hand, for I will make him into a great nation." 19 Then God opened her eyes and she saw a well of water. So she went and filled the bottle with water and gave the boy a drink. Now according to the Bible, Ibrahim picked up his fourteen year old son and put him on Hajar his mothers shoulders and sent them into the wilderness of Beer-Sheba. Come on Christians a fourteen year old boy on her shoulders and a bottle.
In the Bible when Allah supposedly sent Hajar and Ismail into the wilderness of Beer-Sheba, which was already named according to the bible. Genesis 21:14 Ibrahim in Genesis 21:31 come along and claims to dig a well and then ironically names it the same thing.(Beer-Sheba_ (What a coincidence!)
Then the Bible goes a little further and places Ibrahim in the same place as if he, on the contrary to the passages before when he sent Hajar and Ismail into the wilderness alone, went along with her and his firstborn son and not with Sarai. Genesis 21:31-32-33) Verses 31-32-33 put Ibrahim right there in Beer-Sheba with Ismail and Hajar his firstborn son. He even planted a grove tree there in Beer-Sheba and called on Allah from the same place where Hajar called on Allah and also in the same chapter. (Genesis 21:17)(Genesis 21:33)
If Ibrahim had sent them to the wilderness to wander, how is it that in the same Chapter he is also in Beer-Sheba himself and not with Sarai and Issac?
Suddenly in the next chapter, the story totally flips and he is somehow in the company of Sarai and Issac. Genesis 22:1-23 ( If you are following my drift, these drastic changes only happen when the prophecy is about to begin.) After the prophecy is given, in the next chapter which is not even ten verses later, Sarai has died. Sarai dies in Kirjatharba
The Bible put the place where Allah heard Hajar and Ismail in Beer-Sheba. The Bible also place Allah talking to Hajar in Lahairo. Genesis 16:14 (Which they mention is between (Kadesh and Bered) Ring a bell? The Bible also mention Isaac as coming from the well of Lahairoi. Genesis 24:62 Even Issac himself went to Beer-Sheba. Genesis 26:23 Jacob is even mentioned leaving from Beer-sheba. Genesis 28:10
But in Genesis verse 26:2, Issac by digging wells ended up in Beer-sheba, like always to get the blessing from Allah, which, by the way is the same place where Ismail and his mother Hajar was sent by Ibrahim in Genesis 21:14. How ironic that Isaac is somehow always in the places that Ismail would be in, if not for the twists in the story?
Then in Chapter 28:7; The Bible states that Jacob obeyed his father not to marry a caanite woman, and it says he was in Padanaram, Then in Chapter 28:9; The Bible states that he is leaving Beer-sheba, which is the same place that Ibrahim sent Hajar and Ismail. How is that? This is the rubbish that Christians use to claim that the Prophet Muhammad was not a prophet. The Prophet Muhammad came through this lineage of Ismail, Abraham firstborn son and the son in which the covenant was made.
The Apostle of God: Muhammad was the son of Abd Allah, son of Abd-ul-Muttalib, son of Hashim, son of Abdu Manaf, son of Qusay, son of Kilab, son of Hakeem, son of Kaab, son of Luayy, son of Ghalib, son of Fihr, son of Malik, son of Qays, son of Kinanah, son of Khuzaymah, son of Mudrikah, son of Ilyas, son of Mudhar, son of Nizar, son of Maad, son of Adnan, son of Udd, son of Muqawwam, son of Nakhour, son of Tahir, son of Yarub, son of Yashyub, son of Nabit, son of Ismail (ishmael), son of Ibrahim, the Friend of God, son of Tarikh, son of Nakhour, son of Sarukh, son of Rau, son of Falih, son of Hud, son of Salih, son of Arphakhshad, son of Sham, son of Nuh, son of Lamekh, son of Matushalakh, son of Akhanukh, - who, as is believed, was the prophet Idris, the first prophet, and the first who wrote with the reed, - son of Aded, son of Mahlaleel, son of Kaynan, son of Anoush, son of Shays, son of Adam, to whom may God be gracious!
Posts: 55 | Registered: Apr 2010
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Let me start with this, Hagar was an "Egyptian" not an Arab or from Arabia. An Angel spoke to her and told her she shall bare a son Ishmael. What does it matter that Sarah did not have an angel speak to her? When the three visitors came to Abraham, Sarah overheard what one of them said and laughed within herself and then the Lord heard her and asked why she laughed within herself when he said he would make her a nation. Sarah was never in distress so thats probably the reason why God did not send her a Angel to speak to her. Sarah was the women God planned to use to carry Abrahams seed. Also you really need to stop taking the word of God out of context. If you keep reading, you will see this:
Genesis 21:9-13 (King James Version)
9And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking.
10Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac.
11And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son.
12And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.
13And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed.
14And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and a bottle of water, and gave it unto Hagar, putting it on her shoulder, and the child, and sent her away: and she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beersheba.
So we see God saying that Abrahams Seed shall be established in Isaac not Ishmael who God made a Nation also. Also Ishmael's first wife was an Egyptian not a women from the socalled Middle East.
As for your Beersheba I believe Beersheba was a big place and I doubt because it's not "Written" in the Bible that Abraham was there with Hagar and Ishmael. What we DO know is that Isaac was taken by Abraham to be sacraficed. We know this because it was written in the "Bible" Read this:
And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest , and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.
3And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ass, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him.
We know Abraham had another Son but he was not in the picture and you should understand that the Bible trumps the Quran in age, so for muhammad to change that it was Ishamel who went to be sacraficed is just nonsense and holds no merit. There is no "Twist" of the story. Beersheba was a popualr place and I doubt it was some small place where Abraham would Bump into Hagar and her son.
Why Christians do not see muhammad as a prophet is because he did not prophecy any good or Bad. He never said anything that came true. He did no miracles and even said his one miracle was the quran. He also claimed to get divine revelation hidden away in a cave when the prophets of the Old Testament Got prophecies out in the Open. Other reasons why muhammad was not a prophet:
The Bible says that Jesus is the seal of revelation, and that all prophets after him must come in his authority and preach the eternal Gospel of Christ:
“Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.” John 6:27 NASB
"Therefore, behold, I AM SENDING you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city,” Matthew 23:34
“Now the God of peace, who brought up from the dead the great Shepherd of the sheep through the blood of the eternal covenant, even Jesus our Lord,” Hebrews 13:20
“And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, having an eternal gospel to preach to those who live on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people;” Revelation 14:6
“Then I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, ‘Do not do that; I am a fellow servant of yours and your brethren who hold the testimony of Jesus; worship God. For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.” Revelation 19:10
Since Muhammad contradicted the message of Christ, denying his divine sonship, his message is therefore not from the true God:
“Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist--he denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.” 1 John 2:22-23 NIV
Muhammad is as much a prophet as Joseph Smith of the mormons.
Also Yahweh is the God of the Jews and Christians. Allah was a pagan god of the Arabs that muhammad said he followed. Don't take this as disrespect but thats just the Truth.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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I got some questions to ask you. They are simple questions.
The Qur'an says "To those who believe and do deeds of righteousness hath Allah promised forgiveness and a great reward" (Surah 5:9).
Question : Are you doing enough good deeds to receive salvation on the Day of Judgment? Question : Are you doing all you can or are you relaxing in your dedication to Allah?
The Qur'an says, "O ye who believe! Turn unto Allah in sincere repentance! It may be that your Lord will remit from you your evil deeds and bring you into Gardens underneath which rivers flow, on the day when Allah will not abase the Prophet and those who believe with him. Their light will run before them and on their right hands; they will say: Our Lord! Perfect our light for us, and forgive us! Lo! Thou art Able to do all things," (66:8-9). Notice how it says if you are sincere you may receive forgiveness.
Question : How do you know you are sincere enough to be forgiven of Allah?
Question : Does it give you peace to know that even if you are very sincere then, at best, you may receive forgiveness?
Question : If you say that you know you are sincere enough in your repentance before Allah, how do you know you are not deceiving yourself?
Question : Is your heart really good enough to muster enough sincerity before a Holy and Righteous God?
Question : If you say yes, I honestly and humbly ask you, "Are you being prideful?"
Question : If you say you are not being prideful, then are you boasting in your sincerity?
Question : Was Muhammad wrong for advocating lying? Is Lying okay? "Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him [Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf]?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it," (Hadith Vol. 5, Book 59, #369).
Question : Who is more holy, Allah or Yahweh? In the above quote from the hadith, Muhammad advocated lying. The Christian God would never approve of lying. Does the god of Islam approve of lying? If not, then wasn't Muhammad wrong?
Take your time and answer.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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I got some questions to ask you. They are simple questions.
The Qur'an says "To those who believe and do deeds of righteousness hath Allah promised forgiveness and a great reward" (Surah 5:9).
Question : Are you doing enough good deeds to receive salvation on the Day of Judgment? Question : Are you doing all you can or are you relaxing in your dedication to Allah?
The Qur'an says, "O ye who believe! Turn unto Allah in sincere repentance! It may be that your Lord will remit from you your evil deeds and bring you into Gardens underneath which rivers flow, on the day when Allah will not abase the Prophet and those who believe with him. Their light will run before them and on their right hands; they will say: Our Lord! Perfect our light for us, and forgive us! Lo! Thou art Able to do all things," (66:8-9). Notice how it says if you are sincere you may receive forgiveness.
Question : How do you know you are sincere enough to be forgiven of Allah?
Question : Does it give you peace to know that even if you are very sincere then, at best, you may receive forgiveness?
Question : If you say that you know you are sincere enough in your repentance before Allah, how do you know you are not deceiving yourself?
Question : Is your heart really good enough to muster enough sincerity before a Holy and Righteous God?
Question : If you say yes, I honestly and humbly ask you, "Are you being prideful?"
Question : If you say you are not being prideful, then are you boasting in your sincerity?
Question : Was Muhammad wrong for advocating lying? Is Lying okay? "Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him [Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf]?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it," (Hadith Vol. 5, Book 59, #369).
Question : Who is more holy, Allah or Yahweh? In the above quote from the hadith, Muhammad advocated lying. The Christian God would never approve of lying. Does the god of Islam approve of lying? If not, then wasn't Muhammad wrong?
Take your time and answer.
Peace
Dont Fall for it Kairi-Tuwei, this guy King is stupid as hell.
He uses English translations to refute the Quran because he cant read arabic or any othe language other than English.
You will not learn nothing from this guy!
I asked him and his friend Jari, to give me any reference in any ancient text that mentions anything about Christians or Jesus being Christian. They had no answer! Only tried to argue with me about some English translations of the Quran, telling me that the english translations are the same as the arabic.
What a freaking dumbass?
Now he is trying to argue with you on Hadith. You see what I mean? Christians do not have a clue about Islam, and the fact that they bash it and cant even read the Quran, shows how good the media brainwashing is. This guy King is a good example of people who watch way too much television. He takes what he sees on television and applies this to his research methods.
Like look here: Ill answer kings Dumbass
I got some questions to ask you. They are simple questions.
The Qur'an says "To those who believe and do deeds of righteousness hath Allah promised forgiveness and a great reward" (Surah 5:9).
How do you know that this is what the Quran actually says? Can you read Arabic?
Question : Are you doing enough good deeds to receive salvation on the Day of Judgment?
Only Allah knows what man will bring forth on the Day of Judgment! Or is it the Christians?
Question : Are you doing all you can or are you relaxing in your dedication to Allah?
Are you doing everything that you can or are you just praising Jesus blindly?
The Qur'an says, "O ye who believe! Turn unto Allah in sincere repentance! It may be that your Lord will remit from you your evil deeds and bring you into Gardens underneath which rivers flow, on the day when Allah will not abase the Prophet and those who believe with him. Their light will run before them and on their right hands; they will say: Our Lord! Perfect our light for us, and forgive us! Lo! Thou art Able to do all things," (66:8-9). Notice how it says if you are sincere you may receive forgiveness.
I notice how this is once again an English translation of the Quran, are you sure this is what the Quran says?
Question : How do you know you are sincere enough to be forgiven of Allah?
How do you know Jesus was a Christian? How do you know Jesus Died on the cross? How do you Know Jesus was the begotten Son Of God?
Question : Does it give you peace to know that even if you are very sincere then, at best, you may receive forgiveness?
Does it give you peace knowing you are only limited to the translation of the texts in which believe in and that you use to base your arguments?
Question : If you say that you know you are sincere enough in your repentance before Allah, how do you know you are not deceiving yourself?
How do you know that the Bible is not deceiving you? How do you know that Christianity is a God given religion and not made up one?
Question : Is your heart really good enough to muster enough sincerity before a Holy and Righteous God?
Is your heart good enough to accept the fact that you might not be following Jesus at all, and having the faith of a mustard seed was something white people made up to keep you in religious bondage? Obey thy Master! LOL
Question : If you say yes, I honestly and humbly ask you, "Are you being prideful?"
Are you proud that you are linguistically handicapped when it comes to reading any religious text including your own? Maybe you are being prideful when you think that you have it all figured out, even when you know in your heart that in your whole life you have never actually read the Bible or the Quran? Meanimg the actual text which is the actual books!
Question : If you say you are not being prideful, then are you boasting in your sincerity?
And if you are saying that i'm not answering your question, then maybe it's because you are not knowledgeable enough to ask a real questions concerning something that actually can help "you" in your religion. seeing that its evident that you have nothing to offer other than your first grade psyche evaluation. Lol!
Question : Was Muhammad wrong for advocating lying? Is Lying okay? "Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him [Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf]?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it," (Hadith Vol. 5, Book 59, #369).
Come on a Hadith! LOl..............So rookie!!!!!!!
Question : Who is more holy, Allah or Yahweh? In the above quote from the hadith, Muhammad advocated lying. The Christian God would never approve of lying. Does the god of Islam approve of lying? If not, then wasn't Muhammad wrong?
Qul Huw Allahu Ahad. Allahu Samad. Lam Yalid Wa Lam Yawlaad. Wa Lam Yakun Lahu Kufuwan Ahad.
I doubt that you will understand what i just wrote. That language barrier can be a handicap for the handicapped.
Asalaam wa lakum.
Posts: 163 | Registered: Mar 2010
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posted
QUOTE]Originally posted by KING: Kairi-Tuwei
Let me start with this, Hagar was an "Egyptian" not an Arab or from Arabia. An Angel spoke to her and told her she shall bare a son Ishmael. What does it matter that Sarah did not have an angel speak to her? When the three visitors came to Abraham, Sarah overheard what one of them said and laughed within herself and then the Lord heard her and asked why she laughed within herself when he said he would make her a nation. Sarah was never in distress so thats probably the reason why God did not send her a Angel to speak to her. Sarah was the women God planned to use to carry Abrahams seed. Also you really need to stop taking the word of God out of context. If you keep reading, you will see this:
Genesis 21:9-13 (King James Version)
9And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking.
10Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac.
11And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son.
12And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.
13And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed.
14And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and a bottle of water, and gave it unto Hagar, putting it on her shoulder, and the child, and sent her away: and she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beersheba.
So we see God saying that Abrahams Seed shall be established in Isaac not Ishmael who God made a Nation also. Also Ishmael's first wife was an Egyptian not a women from the socalled Middle East.
As for your Beersheba I believe Beersheba was a big place and I doubt because it's not "Written" in the Bible that Abraham was there with Hagar and Ishmael. What we DO know is that Isaac was taken by Abraham to be sacraficed. We know this because it was written in the "Bible" Read this:
And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest , and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.
3And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ass, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him.
We know Abraham had another Son but he was not in the picture and you should understand that the Bible trumps the Quran in age, so for muhammad to change that it was Ishamel who went to be sacraficed is just nonsense and holds no merit. There is no "Twist" of the story. Beersheba was a popualr place and I doubt it was some small place where Abraham would Bump into Hagar and her son.
Why Christians do not see muhammad as a prophet is because he did not prophecy any good or Bad. He never said anything that came true. He did no miracles and even said his one miracle was the quran. He also claimed to get divine revelation hidden away in a cave when the prophets of the Old Testament Got prophecies out in the Open. Other reasons why muhammad was not a prophet:
The Bible says that Jesus is the seal of revelation, and that all prophets after him must come in his authority and preach the eternal Gospel of Christ:
“Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.” John 6:27 NASB
"Therefore, behold, I AM SENDING you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city,” Matthew 23:34
“Now the God of peace, who brought up from the dead the great Shepherd of the sheep through the blood of the eternal covenant, even Jesus our Lord,” Hebrews 13:20
“And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, having an eternal gospel to preach to those who live on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people;” Revelation 14:6
“Then I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, ‘Do not do that; I am a fellow servant of yours and your brethren who hold the testimony of Jesus; worship God. For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.” Revelation 19:10
Since Muhammad contradicted the message of Christ, denying his divine sonship, his message is therefore not from the true God:
“Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist--he denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.” 1 John 2:22-23 NIV
Muhammad is as much a prophet as Joseph Smith of the mormons.
Also Yahweh is the God of the Jews and Christians. Allah was a pagan god of the Arabs that muhammad said he followed. Don't take this as disrespect but thats just the Truth.
Peace [/QUOTE]
************************************************************************************************** To King: First of all I never once said Hajar was an Arab. One of your first mistakes.
The secong thing is, why is it that Allah never speaks to Sarai, at all in the book of Genesis, not even to mention to her that she would be with child. It was not until after Ibrahim told Sarai that Allah had ordained for her to have a son that she laughed. She was not spoken to at all by Allah, Allah made "Ibrahim" aware of the fact that he could hear all, by telling "Ibrahim" that he heard Sarai laugh, which just like you would; she denied it. She did not deny it to Allah, but denied it when confronted by "Ibrahim" after he was told by Allah. Genesis 18:11-15 So you implementing that into the Bible will be between you and your God, but it is most definitely not in any of the Bible translation. It only refers to Allah talking to Ibrahim, not Sarai. Dont twist the Bible. ************************************************************************************************** 9And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking.
10Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac.
11And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son.
12And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.
13And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed.
14And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and a bottle of water, and gave it unto Hagar, putting it on her shoulder, and the child, and sent her away: and she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beersheba.
So we see God saying that Abrahams Seed shall be established in Isaac not Ishmael who God made a Nation also. Also Ishmael's first wife was an Egyptian not a women from the socalled Middle East. ************************************************************************************************** To King: First of all you did not refute my claim that Ismail was fourteen years old at the time that him and his mother Hajar was supposely cast out, nor did you explain why Ibrahim would put a fourteen year old boy on his mothers shoulder, and why she would be giving him a bottle. This story is most definitely been tampered with and the proof is right there in the Bible. ************************************************************************************************** As for your Beersheba I believe Beersheba was a big place and I doubt because it's not "Written" in the Bible that Abraham was there with Hagar and Ishmael. What we DO know is that Isaac was taken by Abraham to be sacraficed. We know this because it was written in the "Bible" Read this:
************************************************* ************************************************* To King: First of all, the Hell with what you beleive! The Bible states that Beers-Sheba was the wilderness in which he supposedly cast out Hajar his wife, and Ismail, which Allah decreed fit to give him as his "firstborn son". Even in the bible it states that Ibrahim had a covenant with Ismail, when he made the covenant of circumcising Ismael at fourteen years old.In this covenant he even states in Genesis verse 17:8 that in this same covenant that ALLah gave Ibrahim the prophecy. Isaac was not even born or mentioned until after this covenant was made. Genesis 17:1-27 ************************************************* ************************************************* And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest , and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.
*********************************************** *********************************************** To King: So I guess the Bible was lying when it said Isaac was Ibrahims only son, or was it lying when it say that Ismail was his son by Hajar? You tell me, I can only read what it says. *********************************************** ***********************************************
We know Abraham had another Son but he was not in the picture and you should understand that the Bible trumps the Quran in age, so for muhammad to change that it was Ishamel who went to be sacraficed is just nonsense and holds no merit. There is no "Twist" of the story. Beersheba was a popualr place and I doubt it was some small place where Abraham would Bump into Hagar and her son.
************************************************* ************************************************* To King: Once again no one cares what you think, I need you to clarify the Bible with the Bible, not with your first grade opinion. How can you say that Ismail was not in the picture when according to the Bible He and His mother Hajar satyed with Ibrahim until he was fourteen years old and was told that he would be a great nation. Thats fourteen years dummy! On top of that, in the same verse that Ibrahim supposedly cast them out to Beer-Sheba, in the next verses he was also dwelling in the wilderness of Beer-Sheba as well, as I mentioned in my intial post, and not with Sarai and Issac. It was not until after Ibrahim left Beer-Sheba, that he went back with Sarai and Issac according to the Bible. And about Ibrahim not "bumping" into Hajar and "her" son Ismail in Beer-Sheba as you put it: Tell me, why is it in the whole Genesis of the Bible, did Ibrahim not visit Beer-Sheba at any other time, until after he supposedly cast his wife Hajar and "her" son Ismail to Beer-Sheba, and not only does he dwelled there, for how long is not mentioned, he also speaks to Allah from Beer-Sheba. "Which by the way, is the same place where Allah talked with Hajar. This place is supposedly located today in Israel. That is the only time in the Bible when he is mentioned being in Beer-Sheba."What a coincidence"! By this time in the bible Ibrahim had made three our four covenants with Allah according to the Bible. This is something else that you have failed to refute, or even clarify. ************************************************* ************************************************* Why Christians do not see muhammad as a prophet is because he did not prophecy any good or Bad. He never said anything that came true. He did no miracles and even said his one miracle was the quran. He also claimed to get divine revelation hidden away in a cave when the prophets of the Old Testament Got prophecies out in the Open. Other reasons why muhammad was not a prophet:
************************************************* ************************************************* How can you honestly say that Christians do not see the Prophet Muhammad as a Prophet, when most of the converts to Islam in the time of the Prophet Muhammad were Chrsitians, and most of the people who are converting to Islam today are people that are fed up with the falsehoods in the Bible and with Christianity in general. Christianity is a more relaxed religion, you guys allow homosexuals, and rapist, and just about anything is okay, as long as you beleive that Jesus is your lord and savior. The Islamic religion is more strict, we beleive that you win favor with Allah by your conduct and the beleif in Allah ( that there is only one God). And the laws are way more harsher even prayinf five times a day compared to Christians who pray whenever they want and some not at all. If Islam was a fake religion why would Christian be flocking by the masses to Islam, especially when Christianity is more relaxed in accepting perversity and other non-religious characteristic into their brethren. Why would they change the former for the latter? If Christians dont beleive in the Prophet Muhammad, why would they be abandoning Christianity coming to Islam to find a sense of Allah? ************************************************* ************************************************* The Bible says that Jesus is the seal of revelation, and that all prophets after him must come in his authority and preach the eternal Gospel of Christ:
************************************************* ************************************************* It's kind of funny how you leave out the passages to validate your claims. But its you nevertheless! You and I know that Jesus never said this, Jesus never calimed to be the seal of anything, but it is funny how you say Jesus says everyone to come after him will teach his word. Lol No passages to this means only one thing, you making stuff up again. ************************************************ ************************************************
Posts: 55 | Registered: Apr 2010
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This is how the Prophet Muhammad got his revelation. From the Angel Gabriel!
The same angel who spoke to Daniel in Daniel 8:15-17. Also in Daniel 9:21-24
•To Daniel, explaining the vision of the ram and the he goat -
◦"When I, Daniel, had seen the vision, I sought to understand it; and behold, there stood before me one having the appearance of a man. And I heard a man's voice between the banks of the Ulai, and it called, "Gabriel, make this man understand the vision." So he came near where I stood; and when he came, I was frightened and fell upon my face. But he said to me, "Understand, O son of man, that the vision is for the time of the end." (Daniel 8:15-17 RSV)
•To Daniel, explaining the 70 weeks prophecy -
◦"while I was speaking in prayer, the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the first, came to me in swift flight at the time of the evening sacrifice. He came and he said to me, "O Daniel, I have now come out to give you wisdom and understanding. At the beginning of your supplications a word went forth, and I have come to tell it to you, for you are greatly beloved; therefore consider the word and understand the vision. "Seventy weeks of years are decreed concerning your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place." (Daniel 9:21-24 RSV)
•To Zechariah to announce the coming of John the Baptist -
◦"And there appeared to him an angel of The Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense. And Zechariah was troubled when he saw him, and fear fell upon him. But the angel said to him, "Do not be afraid, Zechariah, for your prayer is heard, and your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you shall call his name John. And you will have joy and gladness, and many will rejoice at his birth; for he will be great before The Lord, and he shall drink no wine nor strong drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother's womb. And he will turn many of the sons of Israel to the Lord their God, and he will go before him in the spirit and power of Elijah [see also Why Elijah?], to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready for the Lord a people prepared." And Zechariah said to the angel, "How shall I know this? For I am an old man, and my wife is advanced in years." And the angel answered him, "I am Gabriel, who stand in the presence of God; and I was sent to speak to you, and to bring you this good news." (Luke 1:11-19 RSV)
•To Mary, the mother of Jesus Christ, one of the most famous passages of The Bible -
◦"In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary. And he came to her and said, "Hail, O favored one, The Lord is with you!" But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and considered in her mind what sort of greeting this might be. And the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call His name Jesus. He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High; and The Lord God will give to Him the throne of his father David [see The Chosen People], and He will reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of His kingdom [see The Kingdom of God] there will be no end." And Mary said to the angel, "How shall this be, since I have no husband?" And the angel said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God." (Luke 1:26-35 RSV)
Gabriel in the Quran
In reference to Gabriel, the Arabic Quran calls him; "Ruhhil-Qudus" (Holy Spirit), "Ruuhanaa" (Our Spirit), "Ruuhul-'Amiin" (The Honest Spirit) and "Al-Ruh' " (The Spirit) . Thus, when reading the verses in the Quran, the whole Quran, we see that Gabriel is the Holy and Honest Bearer of Revelations. We learn from 2:97 that these references are indeed talking about Gabriel.
[2:97] Say, "Anyone who opposes Gabriel should know that he has brought down this (Quran) into your heart, in accordance with GOD's will, confirming previous scriptures, and providing guidance and good news for the believers."
To understand the connection between the Angel Gabriel and calling him the Spirit, the Holy Spirit and the Honest Spirit in the Quran we should also read all related verses, 16:102 & 26:192-193.
[16:102] Say, "The Holy Spirit has brought it (Quran) down from your Lord, truthfully, to assure those who believe, and to provide a beacon and good news for the submitters."
[26:192] This (Quran) is a revelation from the Lord of the universe.
[26:193] The Honest Spirit (Gabriel) came down with it.
Thus, the following verses from the Quran are also talking about Gabriel.
[2:87] We gave Moses the scripture, and subsequent to him we sent other messengers, and we gave Jesus, son of Mary, profound miracles and supported him with the Holy Spirit. Is it not a fact that every time a messenger went to you with anything you disliked, your ego caused you to be arrogant? Some of them you rejected, and some of them you killed.
[2:253] These messengers; we blessed some of them more than others. For example, GOD spoke to one, and we raised some of them to higher ranks. And we gave Jesus, son of Mary, profound miracles and supported him with the Holy Spirit.
[5:110] GOD will say, "O Jesus, son of Mary, remember My blessings upon you and your mother. I supported you with the Holy Spirit, to enable you to speak to the people from the crib, as well as an adult. I taught you the scripture, wisdom, the Torah, and the Gospel.
[19:17-19] While a barrier separated her from them, we sent to her our Spirit. He went to her in the form of a human being. She said, "I seek refuge in the Most Gracious, that you may be righteous." He said, "I am the messenger of your Lord, to grant you a pure son."
[78:38] The day will come when the Spirit and the angels will stand in a row. None will speak except those permitted by the Most Gracious, and they will utter only what is right.
[97:4] The angels and the Spirit descend therein, by their Lord's leave, to carry out every command.
It is interesting that God chose to mention the " Spirit and the angels" in these last two verses . In the Arabic language it is not unusual to specify part of a whole group to emphasize the significance of that part. Quran has many examples like these, e.g.. in 55:68 God talks about fruits, dates and pomegranate to emphasize the last two kinds of fruits.
[55:68] In them are fruits, date palms, and pomegranate.
In 2:238 God talks about Salat and the middle salat to emphasize its significance of the middle salat.
It is also interesting to know that the name " Gabriel" in Arabic (Gbryl) has the same gematrical value of the word "Al-Ruh' " (the Spirit), both being 245. G=3 , B=2, R=200, Y=10 and L=30, therefore 3+2+200+10+30 = 245. While the word Al-Ruh' (The spirit) has , A=1, L=30, R=200, U (waw)= 6 , H'=8, therefore 1+30+200+6+8 = 245
Revelation according to Muhammad from Gabriel
One Day the Chosen one was in the cave of Hijra. For two years and mor he had prayed there and adored His Creatoer and wondered at the mystery of man with his corruptible flesh, just growing out of a clot and the soul in him reaching out to knowledge sublime. And ever new, taught by the bounty of Allah, and leading to that which man know not. Behold a dazzling vision of beauty and light overpowered his senses. And he heard the word "Iqra"! "Iqra" which is interpreted to mean read, or proclaim, or recite. The unlettered prophet was puzzled; He could not read. The Angel seemed to press him to his breats in a close embrace, And the cry rang clear "Iqra" (Read) So it happened three times and an overopowering sensation yielded to collected grasp of the words which made clear His mission; its Author, Allah, the Creator.
In Isaiah 29 9-15,there is a prophecy mentioned after the prophecy of Jesus about another book being sealed that had to be opened by a special figure that was prophecised to come after Jesus.
9(N)Be delayed and wait, Blind yourselves and be blind; They (O)become drunk, but not with wine, They stagger, but not with strong drink. 10For the LORD has poured over you a spirit of deep (P)sleep, He has (Q)shut your eyes, the prophets; And He has covered your heads, the seers. 11The entire vision will be to you like the words of a sealed book, which when they give it to the one who is literate, saying, "Please read this," he will say, "I cannot, for it is sealed."
12Then the book will be given to the one who is illiterate, saying, "Please read this." And he will say, "I cannot read."
13Then the Lord said, "Because (S)this people draw near with their words And honor Me with their lip service, But they remove their hearts far from Me, And their reverence for Me consists of tradition learned by rote, 14Therefore behold, I will once again deal (T)marvelously with this people, wondrously marvelous; And (U)the wisdom of their wise men will perish, And the discernment of their discerning men will be concealed." 15Woe to those who deeply (V)hide their plans from the LORD, And whose (W)deeds are done in a dark place, And they say, "(X)Who sees us?" or "Who knows us?" 16You turn things around! Shall the potter be considered as equal with the clay, That (Y)what is made would say to its maker, "He did not make me"; Or what is formed say to him who formed it, "He has no understanding"?
There is only one unlettered prophet and that was the Prophet Muhammad.
Your Bible even have a prophecy of the Prophet Muhammad. If you can think of someone else be my guess. Be prepared to be debunked
Posts: 55 | Registered: Apr 2010
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All I see is a lot of corruption and foolishness and Insults so I will make this quick Circle of Life, I will answer you because you did not use any Corrupting symbols. Really Circle you NEVER answered the questions I posted all you did was try to be smart and post that I can't read the translations etc. You seem to take a lot of pride in reading Arabic, So if those verses from the quran are not true, why don't you post the Arabic translations and we will see if any other Arabic speakers will verify if these verses are true.Kairi-Tuwei did not read most of your nonsense post because all it was is negative symbols and most of it was nonsense. Anyways what I read from your post will be refuted by Jesus's own words.
As for what you said about Yahweh and Yeshua(Jesus) I will post this 2 verses from the Bible:
John 14:9: Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Matthew 28:18-20 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them ina the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
One Final Verse.
Luke16:16 The law and the prophets [are] until John, from then the kingdom of God is proclaimed and all forcibly enter it.
As we see here, Jesus said the Prophets were until John. This is HIS WORDS that I have shown you. So what more can be said? Also your reference and taking Biblical verses out of context like Isaiah Where that verse says it could not be read because it was sealed, not because of illiteracy. Also that Chapter speaks of woes upon Ariel. How you get Muhammad out of God saying Quote: For the Lord hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered. And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is SEALED, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is SEALED.
How you get that this speaks about an socalled illiterate man is beyond me. But anyone who reads in context knows this verse speaks about woes on Ariel(Jerusalem) and not about some guy from Arabia. Try something else.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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Usually I ignore people who post corrupting symbols, but I will post that Isaiah was a prophet and the Torah is where the Quran states that a prophet would come out of. Why you went all the way to Isaiah to prove that Muhammad was spoken of in it, is just wrong.
Read your quran and see where it states that muhammad was spoken of in the Torah NOT the Prophets:
Sura 7:157, “[Those who] follow the messenger, the unlearned Prophet (an-nabi al-ummi, i.e. Muhammad), whom they find mentioned in the Tawrat (Torah) and in the Injil (Gospel), .
So even your Quran Refutes you. Circle before you cheerlead, just post the Arabic, and we will see if I am right or wrong.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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I got some questions to ask you. They are simple questions.
The Qur'an says "To those who believe and do deeds of righteousness hath Allah promised forgiveness and a great reward" (Surah 5:9).
Question : Are you doing enough good deeds to receive salvation on the Day of Judgment? Question : Are you doing all you can or are you relaxing in your dedication to Allah?
The Qur'an says, "O ye who believe! Turn unto Allah in sincere repentance! It may be that your Lord will remit from you your evil deeds and bring you into Gardens underneath which rivers flow, on the day when Allah will not abase the Prophet and those who believe with him. Their light will run before them and on their right hands; they will say: Our Lord! Perfect our light for us, and forgive us! Lo! Thou art Able to do all things," (66:8-9). Notice how it says if you are sincere you may receive forgiveness.
Question : How do you know you are sincere enough to be forgiven of Allah?
Question : Does it give you peace to know that even if you are very sincere then, at best, you may receive forgiveness?
Question : If you say that you know you are sincere enough in your repentance before Allah, how do you know you are not deceiving yourself?
Question : Is your heart really good enough to muster enough sincerity before a Holy and Righteous God?
Question : If you say yes, I honestly and humbly ask you, "Are you being prideful?"
Question : If you say you are not being prideful, then are you boasting in your sincerity?
Question : Was Muhammad wrong for advocating lying? Is Lying okay? "Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him [Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf]?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it," (Hadith Vol. 5, Book 59, #369).
Question : Who is more holy, Allah or Yahweh? In the above quote from the hadith, Muhammad advocated lying. The Christian God would never approve of lying. Does the god of Islam approve of lying? If not, then wasn't Muhammad wrong?
Take your time and answer.
Peace
KING, the Most High's name is not Yahweh, its Ehyeh ashar Ehyeh, as revealed to Moses. Yahweh is a Pagan god.
Posts: 8805 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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Thanks for the critique Jari. Yahweh is the english transalation to the word YHWH. It seems that Jehovah was Known by Ehyeh at the burning Bush Which means "I AM" Is not a name it's a discriptor that god is using to demonstrate that he is the all knowing self existing one. Elshaddai is also a Name of God.
The oldest exegetes, such as Onkelos, and the Targumim of Jerusalem regard "Ehyeh" and "Ehyeh asher Ehyeh" as the name of the Divinity. -Jewish Ency, Funk & Wagnalls, 1925 Ed p 119
Also I found this guy saying that the word "Ehyeh", is spoken like Yahweh:
Today we cannot know what the original vowels were, but Yahweh is as good as guess as we can make, though other spellings are often used. -Samuel Cartledge, A Conservative Introduction To The Old Testament, p51
One thing I will say, We learn something every day of our life. Learning Never stops No matter how young or old you are.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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Usually I ignore people who post corrupting symbols, but I will post that Isaiah was a prophet and the Torah is where the Quran states that a prophet would come out of. Why you went all the way to Isaiah to prove that Muhammad was spoken of in it, is just wrong.
Read your quran and see where it states that muhammad was spoken of in the Torah NOT the Prophets:
Sura 7:157, “[Those who] follow the messenger, the unlearned Prophet (an-nabi al-ummi, i.e. Muhammad), whom they find mentioned in the Tawrat (Torah) and in the Injil (Gospel), .
So even your Quran Refutes you. Circle before you cheerlead, just post the Arabic, and we will see if I am right or wrong.
Peace
So even your Quran Refutes you. Circle before you cheerlead, just post the Arabic, and we will see if I am right or wrong.
King: Why take my time to post (arabic) something that you obviously cannot read? For your entertainment? I am not hear to educate you, Im here to refute you when you misquotes the Quran like you have done here so many times with the Bible. Even in this discussion you have shown that you dont even know the Bible.
King, the Quran refutes you and the Bible refutes you as well. There was only one illiterate prophet, and that was the Prophet Muhammad, that is why you didnt run to post the name of this Isrealite to refute me. And then you say that the Quran does not mention the prophet Muhammad being mentioned in the Bible, the Quran makes mention of this many times, but being that you cant read arabic you would not know. Why not get your facts straight!
You ignore people? LOL, people should ignore you, you cant even quote the Bible without trying to twist it. The reason you didnt post back to "Kairi" is because, like usual, you have no answer. Just admit it. Christians usually cant asnwer the simplest questions about their own religion, but talk about others as if they are practicing something from Jesus.
You are right the original books that was sent down to Prophet Musa and to Prophet Jesus do predate the Quran, but you cannot possibly think that these are the books you read. The Jews disagree with you and so do the Catholics. Why is that the Christian Bible is so right, but how come it is that the Jewish scriptures that predate them, the same books that Christians borrowed from when making the Christian Bible, disagree with the New Testament, and the Christian faith? Why do they not think that the Christian Bible was from their God? Mayb you can answer that since they predate the Christians and the Bible that you read.
You say King: Read your quran and see where it states that muhammad was spoken of in the Torah NOT the Prophets:
Btw how does this refute me: Sura 7:157, “[Those who] follow the messenger, the unlearned Prophet (an-nabi al-ummi, i.e. Muhammad), whom they find mentioned in the Tawrat (Torah) and in the Injil (Gospel), .
Doesnt these book make up the Bible? According to the Quran it does, so where am i being refuted My proof is here that the Quran states that the unlettered Prophet Muhammad was mentioned in the original Bible the Torah and the Gospel the book of prophecies is considered the torah (OMG), and being that he was the only unlettered prophet in history who else could it have been? A claim that you said was not true. But here you go putting the proof to refute yourself. Allah works in mysterios way. Allahu Akbar
Kairi beat you up pretty bad, but King you cannot mess with me ypu are still a "rookie". I am not stuck on the fact that you cant read the Quran, you only wish that you could. You have frustrated yourself, seeing that i am not willing to engage in a debate with you based on your limited knowledge of the actual text of the Quran. Argue translations with another rookie like yourself King.
I am not willing to engage you until you step your game, and learn more of what you talk about!Posts: 163 | Registered: Mar 2010
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Thanks for the critique Jari. Yahweh is the english transalation to the word YHWH. It seems that Jehovah was Known by Ehyeh at the burning Bush Which means "I AM" Is not a name it's a discriptor that god is using to demonstrate that he is the all knowing self existing one. Elshaddai is also a Name of God.
The oldest exegetes, such as Onkelos, and the Targumim of Jerusalem regard "Ehyeh" and "Ehyeh asher Ehyeh" as the name of the Divinity. -Jewish Ency, Funk & Wagnalls, 1925 Ed p 119
Also I found this guy saying that the word "Ehyeh", is spoken like Yahweh:
Today we cannot know what the original vowels were, but Yahweh is as good as guess as we can make, though other spellings are often used. -Samuel Cartledge, A Conservative Introduction To The Old Testament, p51
One thing I will say, We learn something every day of our life. Learning Never stops No matter how young or old you are.
Peace
King read the Text again, it was not a title or descriptor, Moses asked for his NAME..PERIOD.
Here it is in the Bible:
And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? 14And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.
The Tetragramatin injected Yahweh and Jahovah into the scriptures. I mena think about it Jay Z calls himself "Hova" as in Jay-Hova or JAhova, Is JAY Z worshipping the same GOD AS YOU KING..?? The YHWH is pagan, Jahovah is Pagan. King Ahayah is breaking the backs of the Evildoers for his Children but HOW can we do his will when we DONT KNOW HIS NAME?? It Ahayah, I AM!! Not JAhova or Yahweh. The Kabbalists are fooling you man...
King How can Ayahah, Be pronounced YAHWEH...??? King come on man, you are a smart man, Even in English they are different?? King YHWH is the God of the Kabbalists they injected YHWH with the Tetragramatin.
OUR God's name is Ahyayah, Not Yah, Yahova, Yahouwa, Jahova, Allah...it Ahyah ashar ahyah.
Posts: 8805 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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Usually I ignore people who post corrupting symbols, but I will post that Isaiah was a prophet and the Torah is where the Quran states that a prophet would come out of. Why you went all the way to Isaiah to prove that Muhammad was spoken of in it, is just wrong.
Read your quran and see where it states that muhammad was spoken of in the Torah NOT the Prophets:
Sura 7:157, “[Those who] follow the messenger, the unlearned Prophet (an-nabi al-ummi, i.e. Muhammad), whom they find mentioned in the Tawrat (Torah) and in the Injil (Gospel), .
So even your Quran Refutes you. Circle before you cheerlead, just post the Arabic, and we will see if I am right or wrong.
Peace
What in the world are you talking about. Does mathematic scare the intelligent.
Like usual "Christian Rhetoric"! Never can any Christian answer one question, only rant and throw up blasphemies against Allah and his messengers. First you misquote the Bible to the point of plagarism "something you profess to beleive in" then you try to weasel your way out of refuting my claims by just ignoring all my points complaining about my arguement and then you post some repeated nonsense that contradicts itself.
You are a pathetic, you and Jari both? Circle answered your Christian "Psych evaluation", and if you ask me, he hit the nail right on the head and it was quite entertaining. Then you have this idiot repost it as if it had any merit to begin with. Circle played it for just what it was a freaking "joke".
Why dont you refute some of my arguments on the initial post or even my response to the nonsense you wrote when you blatantly lied about the story of Allah talking to Sarai in genesis. What else are you plagarizing? Making stuff up as you go to support your massive piles of retranslated after retranslated text which you Christians consider Holy.
I am here to learn something not to listen to your worthless opinions and ideologies. If you know that you have nothing to offer dont even answer my threads or post in my forums. I cant learn nothing from childish people that is why I dont messes around with people like you in my social life. Please do ignore me King, for you have nothing to offer just like this guy Circle said, so until you can refute my arguments, sat the Hell out my thread. Im not here to argue like you!
Thanks for the critique Jari. Yahweh is the english transalation to the word YHWH. It seems that Jehovah was Known by Ehyeh at the burning Bush Which means "I AM" Is not a name it's a discriptor that god is using to demonstrate that he is the all knowing self existing one. Elshaddai is also a Name of God.
The oldest exegetes, such as Onkelos, and the Targumim of Jerusalem regard "Ehyeh" and "Ehyeh asher Ehyeh" as the name of the Divinity. -Jewish Ency, Funk & Wagnalls, 1925 Ed p 119
Also I found this guy saying that the word "Ehyeh", is spoken like Yahweh:
Today we cannot know what the original vowels were, but Yahweh is as good as guess as we can make, though other spellings are often used. -Samuel Cartledge, A Conservative Introduction To The Old Testament, p51
One thing I will say, We learn something every day of our life. Learning Never stops No matter how young or old you are.
Peace
King read the Text again, it was not a title or descriptor, Moses asked for his NAME..PERIOD.
Here it is in the Bible:
And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? 14And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.
The Tetragramatin injected Yahweh and Jahovah into the scriptures. I mena think about it Jay Z calls himself "Hova" as in Jay-Hova or JAhova, Is JAY Z worshipping the same GOD AS YOU KING..?? The YHWH is pagan, Jahovah is Pagan. King Ahayah is breaking the backs of the Evildoers for his Children but HOW can we do his will when we DONT KNOW HIS NAME?? It Ahayah, I AM!! Not JAhova or Yahweh. The Kabbalists are fooling you man...
King How can Ayahah, Be pronounced YAHWEH...??? King come on man, you are a smart man, Even in English they are different?? King YHWH is the God of the Kabbalists they injected YHWH with the Tetragramatin.
OUR God's name is Ahyayah, Not Yah, Yahova, Yahouwa, Jahova, Allah...it Ahyah ashar ahyah.
Allah, thats the name of the Most Merciful.
Posts: 163 | Registered: Mar 2010
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Thanks for the critique Jari. Yahweh is the english transalation to the word YHWH. It seems that Jehovah was Known by Ehyeh at the burning Bush Which means "I AM" Is not a name it's a discriptor that god is using to demonstrate that he is the all knowing self existing one. Elshaddai is also a Name of God.
The oldest exegetes, such as Onkelos, and the Targumim of Jerusalem regard "Ehyeh" and "Ehyeh asher Ehyeh" as the name of the Divinity. -Jewish Ency, Funk & Wagnalls, 1925 Ed p 119
Also I found this guy saying that the word "Ehyeh", is spoken like Yahweh:
Today we cannot know what the original vowels were, but Yahweh is as good as guess as we can make, though other spellings are often used. -Samuel Cartledge, A Conservative Introduction To The Old Testament, p51
One thing I will say, We learn something every day of our life. Learning Never stops No matter how young or old you are.
Peace
King read the Text again, it was not a title or descriptor, Moses asked for his NAME..PERIOD.
Here it is in the Bible:
And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? 14And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.
The Tetragramatin injected Yahweh and Jahovah into the scriptures. I mena think about it Jay Z calls himself "Hova" as in Jay-Hova or JAhova, Is JAY Z worshipping the same GOD AS YOU KING..?? The YHWH is pagan, Jahovah is Pagan. King Ahayah is breaking the backs of the Evildoers for his Children but HOW can we do his will when we DONT KNOW HIS NAME?? It Ahayah, I AM!! Not JAhova or Yahweh. The Kabbalists are fooling you man...
King How can Ayahah, Be pronounced YAHWEH...??? King come on man, you are a smart man, Even in English they are different?? King YHWH is the God of the Kabbalists they injected YHWH with the Tetragramatin.
OUR God's name is Ahyayah, Not Yah, Yahova, Yahouwa, Jahova, Allah...it Ahyah ashar ahyah.
Two Christian areguing about Jewish text. LOl
Oh I forgot the other one (Jari) claims to be more of a Jew that he is a Christian, and leans more toward jewish text than that of the Christians. Well at least that is what he says.......
So now that I have a Christian and a Jew in the same room.
Who has the right religion.
Take Your Time, I know how hard this can be for the two of you!Posts: 163 | Registered: Mar 2010
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How does the Bible refute me? The Bible does not speak about a illiterate prophet that comes after Jesus, Where did you read this?? Isaiah was speaking about Jerusalem not another prophet after Jesus. PLus the Quran states the TORAH and the GOSPELS not THE PROPHETS. So who has it wrong?
Thats the thing Circle NO place in the TORAH or the Gospels is muhammad spoken of. Thats where you are wrong. If you are right please post the verses from the Bible that States Muhammad is a Prophet after Jesus.
Circle your ego is way overblown, I posted that verse from the Quran to show Kari that Isaiah is NOT the TORAH. So how was I wrong with what I posted?
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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What are you talking about? If you want me to respond to your post then repost it without all the ignorant symbols around them.
Also Circle did not answer my questions at all he just worded his responce different to how it was posted. Stop cheerleading and Answer why you went to Isaiah when the Quran speaks about the TORAH and the GOSPELS, NOT the Prophets. When you answer this then we can move on.
Also Bahahahahhaahah Insults do NOTHING to me, Learning is a two way street and does not involve insults. So be easy and show me what you want me to refute because I caught you in a mixup when you claimed Isaiah speaks about muhammad.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Its like you fail to remember that whole plagarised scene of Genesis you started your argumentwith. Saying God talked to Sarah in the Bible.
How could it not when the word in the passage say just that. Only prophets opened unsealed book, and there was not one unlettered prophet among the Israelite. So why not put down who you think it was, being that you were the only one that implemented Jerusalem into the passage.
Kairi only made reference to the passage and the Prophet Muhammad encounter with Angel Gabriel in the cave, and how the story are similar and they do sounds very very similar.
Why not refute his arguments or my arguments if you want to prove that you know what you are talking about.
You have dodged every question that you have been asked, when you gonna start refuting this so-called nonsense, because your nonsense as well as your lack of sources is taking its toll, and if being refuted, even by you.
The Torah and the Gospel are what the Quran states make up the Holy Bible! How do you not know this. So Isiah is considered the Torah!
Man some people!
Posts: 163 | Registered: Mar 2010
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Genesis 18:12-15 Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I am Waxed old shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?
And the LORD said unto Abraham, Wherefore did Sarah Laugh, saying, Shall I of a surety bear a child, which am old?
Is any thing too hard for the Lord? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son. Then Sarah denied, saying, I laughed not;for she was Afraid. And he said, Nay; But thou didst LAUGH
As we see God spoke to Sarah about her laughing. Becareful when you claim people are twisting words etc because as we see you are the one doing ALL the twisting and turning and Insults.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
I honestly think you are retarded or you cannot read, or refute is a word that you do not fully cmprehend.
You have to first post evidence against the evidence someone else has presented. You seem to not do any of that. And please stop Quoting translation of the Quran, you giving me headache! They do not help your arguments!
Why not refute what was posted in the intial post, that is if you can read, and comprehend English, being that you cannot read in any other language.
The Guy has some good arguments and this is your time to shine for Christianity. And you are showing just why Christian numbers are going down everyday. Lack of being able to answer the simplest question concerning your religion, and the blind faith that the Christian religion enforces.
Posts: 163 | Registered: Mar 2010
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posted
King I was gonna post some clips that break down the Most High's name but it seems anyone with a Youtube account exposing B.P and their Oil Spill had "Error" messages on their clips. Ill wait til tommorow...hopefully B.P is not censoring Alternative Media...Like they have been puting out those Phony Commercials to gimmick the American Public.
Posts: 8805 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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Wow so now the TORAH includes the Prophets Words???? How when it's taught by ALL people except you that the TORAH is the First five books of Moses. WHere do you get off with the Torah including the words of the other Prophets thats called the Tanakh.
Why do you accuse people of plagarizing and twisting, when you don't even know that the TORAH is the First five books of Moses and the TANAKH is the rest of the OLD TESTAMENT. Again stop with the insults, then we can learn together.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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Genesis 18:12-15 Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I am Waxed old shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?
And the LORD said unto Abraham, Wherefore did Sarah Laugh, saying, Shall I of a surety bear a child, which am old?
Is any thing too hard for the Lord? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son. Then Sarah denied, saying, I laughed not;for she was Afraid. And he said, Nay; But thou didst LAUGH
As we see God spoke to Sarah about her laughing. Becareful when you claim people are twisting words etc because as we see you are the one doing ALL the twisting and turning and Insults.
Peace
You left out the the beginning of the passages because it is apparent exactly who God is talking to and it was not Sarah it was Abraham.
Read Here Genesis 18:9 Where is Sarah, your wife?" the visitors asked. "She's inside the tent," Abraham replied Genesis 18:10 Then the LORD said, "I will surely return to you about this time next year, and Sarah your wife will have a son." Now Sarah was listening at the entrance to the tent, which was behind him. Genesis 18:11 Abraham and Sarah were already old and well advanced in years, and Sarah was past the age of childbearing Genesis 18:12 So Sarah laughed to herself as she thought, "After I am worn out and my master is old, will I now have this pleasure Genesis 18:13 Then the LORD said to Abraham, "Why did Sarah laugh and say, 'Will I really have a child, now that I am old?' Genesis 18:14 Is anything too hard for the LORD? I will return to you at the appointed time next year and Sarah will have a son."
Like I said plagarising the bible and twisting its words is exactly what you are doing. This is my proof, the Bible not once says that God spoke to Sarah.
Like you only posted part of the passage, trying to deceive me with your words as if i would not research this myslef.
You have surely shown yourself to be a lier and a plagarist! Shame on you. I knew when you couldnt prove your arguments with the real Bible you would stoop to such low methods and plagarising the bible.Posts: 163 | Registered: Mar 2010
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If Kari wants me to refute his questions, he can repost them without all that stupid and ignorant symbols. I already refuted his take on Sarah and Hagar who was an Egyptian and not an Arab. God spoke to Hagar yes but that does not make Hagar special, As I showed Sarah was spoken to by God also and God said of her womb shall his nation be called.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT??? I am not trying to deceive ANYONE I POSTED what I posted because that was what I was talking about, whether you post the beginning or not does not change that God Spoke to Sarah. What makes you think otherwise?
Whats Wrong with you? All you have is accusations and insults like I don't know what the verse I posted means. No matter how you word it, God SPOKE to Sarah about her laughing. Stop with the stupid strawmens and realize how wrong you are.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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Good way of exposing this idiot King for the Idiot he is. I knew this guy was a lier from his intila post. This guy has plagarised the Bible not once, but twice. Do Christians not have any shame! Is it any low place that they will not stoop to.
The above is proof that this guy is twisting the bible. I am not worried about the symbolism in my post, he want respond because he cannot refute me, an as you see he doesnt have another good lie to tell. Plus he is a novice lier and plagariser.
King you disgrace all Christians! Shame, shame, shame
Posts: 55 | Registered: Apr 2010
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posted
Where in the text does it says God said to Sarah.
Circle posted the whole passage, and not once did it mention God talking to Sarah. Why do you still lie.
Even in the passages you put up, it doesnt say God spoke to sarah about her laughing, it states Abraham asked her why she laughed after God told him that he heard her laugh inside the tent.
Lier and plagariser, away with you devil.
People all over Es should see this you are more pathetic than Dirk8
Posts: 55 | Registered: Apr 2010
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Talk to your boy Kari, because he is the one that posts selected verses and does not read the whole verse in Isaiah. If he did he would see that God was talking about Jerusalem Read and Learn:
Isaiah 29:1-10 1 Woe to Ariel, to Ariel, the city [where] David dwelt! add ye year to year; let them kill sacrifices. 2 Yet I will distress Ariel, and there shall be heaviness and sorrow: and it shall be unto me as Ariel. 3 And I will camp against thee round about, and will lay siege against thee with a mount, and I will raise forts against thee. 4 And thou shalt be brought down, [and] shalt speak out of the ground, and thy speech shall be low out of the dust, and thy voice shall be, as of one that hath a familiar spirit, out of the ground, and thy speech shall whisper out of the dust. 5 Moreover the multitude of thy strangers shall be like small dust, and the multitude of the terrible ones [shall be] as chaff that passeth away: yea, it shall be at an instant suddenly. 6 Thou shalt be visited of the LORD of hosts with thunder, and with earthquake, and great noise, with storm and tempest, and the flame of devouring fire. 7 And the multitude of all the nations that fight against Ariel, even all that fight against her and her munition, and that distress her, shall be as a dream of a night vision. 8 It shall even be as when an hungry [man] dreameth, and, behold, he eateth; but he awaketh, and his soul is empty: or as when a thirsty man dreameth, and, behold, he drinketh; but he awaketh, and, behold, [he is] faint, and his soul hath appetite: so shall the multitude of all the nations be, that fight against mount Zion.” 9 ¶ Stay yourselves, and wonder; cry ye out, and cry: they are drunken, but not with wine; they stagger, but not with strong drink. 10 For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered. 11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which [men] deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it [is] sealed: 12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned. 13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near [me] with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men: 14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, [even] a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise [men] shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent [men] shall be hid. 15 Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the LORD, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who knoweth us? 16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter’s clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?”
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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I did not LIE, READ THIS VERSE 15: Genesis 18:12-15 Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I am Waxed old shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?
And the LORD said unto Abraham, Wherefore did Sarah Laugh, saying, Shall I of a surety bear a child, which am old?
Is any thing too hard for the Lord? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son. Then Sarah denied, saying, I laughed not;for she was Afraid. And he said, Nay; But thou didst LAUGH
Sadly it seems these two people are really trying to win a debate and not learn. Typical of some muslims who think they know everything, and instead of being humble, they insult and attack the poster. Sad
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT??? I am not trying to deceive ANYONE I POSTED what I posted because that was what I was talking about, whether you post the beginning or not does not change that God Spoke to Sarah. What makes you think otherwise?
Whats Wrong with you? All you have is accusations and insults like I don't know what the verse I posted means. No matter how you word it, God SPOKE to Sarah about her laughing. Stop with the stupid strawmens and realize how wrong you are.
Peace
Look how he is trying to wease his way out of that one. Caught with his hand in the cookie Jar Fat Boy.
Now this topic has to change, plagarism is devilish thing and King you have just plagarised your Holy Book.
You shoulg log off and repent fast. Revelation 22:18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.
King You are now doomed. Repent, Repent, Repent
Posts: 163 | Registered: Mar 2010
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Don't think I forgot how you all but ignored my post directed to you. Will repost so you can read and learn:
As for what you said about God and Yeshua(Jesus) I will post this 2 verses from the Bible:
John 14:9: Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Matthew 28:18-20 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them ina the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
One Final Verse.
Luke16:16 The law and the prophets [are] until John, from then the kingdom of God is proclaimed and all forcibly enter it.
As we see here, Jesus said the Prophets were until John. This is HIS WORDS that I have shown you. So what more can be said? Also your reference and taking Biblical verses out of context like Isaiah Where that verse says it could not be read because it was sealed, not because of illiteracy. Also that Chapter speaks of woes upon Ariel. How you get Muhammad out of God saying Quote: For the Lord hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered. And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is SEALED, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is SEALED.
How you get that this speaks about an socalled illiterate man is beyond me. But anyone who reads in context knows this verse speaks about woes on Ariel(Jerusalem) and not about some guy from Arabia. Try something else.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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Your Neither Funny nor a Comedian. What was the Lord speaking to when he said "But You did Laugh"
Devilish behavior is what your prophet muhammad did when he raped a nine yearold girl.
Devilish behavior is when Muhammad promised his followers Women and "Handsome" servant boys in Heaven.
Devilish behavior is when Muhammad allowed his followers to sleep with there slave women whom their right hand possessed. Muhammads whole life was about Rape, Plunder, And NO MIRACLES, so I ask you how was he a prophet again?
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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Abraham asked Sarah why she laughed not God. You can continue to twist the Bible all you want, I see Christian will stoop to any level to have the upper hand, even if it means being against God and their religion or even there book.
It is you who cannot learn> You who twist the words of your own Holy book, and then continue to implement what you want into it. At least I wont do that. You are a lier and a plagariser!
May you burn in Hell!
Revelation 22:18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.
Posts: 163 | Registered: Mar 2010
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It was the Lord I will repost for you to read for yourself. Matter of fact I will post from 3 translations so you understand what is written in the Bible:
Genesis 18:13-15 (New International Version)
13 Then the LORD said to Abraham , "Why did Sarah laugh and say, 'Will I really have a child, now that I am old?' 14 Is anything too hard for the LORD ? I will return to you at the appointed time next year and Sarah will have a son."
15 Sarah was afraid, so she lied and said, "I did not laugh." But he said, "Yes, you did laugh."
Genesis 18:13-15 (King James Version)
13And the LORD said unto Abraham , Wherefore did Sarah laugh, saying, Shall I of a surety bear a child, which am old?
14Is any thing too hard for the LORD? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son.
15Then Sarah denied, saying, I laughed not; for she was afraid. And he said, Nay; but thou didst laugh.
Genesis 18:13-15 (Amplified Bible) 13And the Lord asked Abraham , Why did Sarah laugh, saying, Shall I really bear a child when I am so old?
14Is anything too hard or too wonderful [a]for the Lord? At the appointed time, when the season [for her delivery] comes around, I will return to you and Sarah shall have borne a son.(A)
15Then Sarah denied it, saying, I did not laugh; for she was afraid. And He said, No, but you did laugh
Now you have NO EXCUSE to mess up or twist the word of God. Also I am not going to sink as low as you All I will say is Jesus loves you and at any time you can embrace him and know that You will be saved during the Judgement.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
You who plagarize the Bible! What else have you twisted in the bible, you Kafirun!
You and people like you are the reason why Christians are abandoning that fake religion that you plagarise. You are a pedophile, that is why you are so bent on making someone that is Great as the Prophet Muhammad a pedpohile.
What about the bible saying lot screwed his two young daughters after a night of wine?
Another Christian Dummy, you cant even read the original text of the Bible, wants to slander the Prophet Muhammad. So what Bible do you read, it cant be the real Bible, because you cant read Hebrew or anything another than English.
The Pedophiles are you and your Christian Brethren taking away the innocence of little children all over the world, you child molesting bastards.
Every Church in the world in full of rapist and child molester.
Is that why you want someone to comfirm your little Muhammad was a pedophile theory, because only then will you come to Islam.
I know for a fact that your Daddy was a child molester. And so are you. ALL Christians are.
Get real child molesters!
Posts: 163 | Registered: Mar 2010
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Why are you straying offtopic? Whats with all the attacks?? What of what I posted is wrong about muhammad???
This is why I try to keep things civil when talking to a muslim. All I have said about your prophet is FOUND in the "Holy" books of islam the Quran and hadith.
What about all those girls that were given to muslim men as dowry? Why did a Muslim the Ayatollah Komeni create a book where he said it's okay to sleep with a toddler and animals? Read this:
from “Tahrirolvasyleh” which Muslims probably don’t want you to know about Islam:
A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However, he should not penetrate vaginally, but sodomising the child is acceptable. If a man does penetrate and damage the child then, he should be responsible for her subsistence all her life. This girl will not count as one of his four permanent wives and the man will not be eligible to marry the girl’s sister… It is better for a girl to marry at such a time when she would begin menstruation at her husband’s house, rather than her father’s home. Any father marrying his daughter so young will have a permanent place in heaven. ["Tahrirolvasyleh", fourth edition, Qom, Iran, 1990]
A man can have sex with animals such as sheep, cows, camels and so on. However, he should kill the animal after he has his orgasm. He should not sell the meat to the people in his own village, but selling the meat to a neighbouring village is reasonable.
I just think we should be able to discuss things without insults and strawmen, yet you continue to insult and attack. This is not how you learn and it shows all you are good for is attacking the poster, instead of attacking the post. Sad
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
[QUOTE]Originally posted by KING: [QB] CircleOfLife
WHY ARE YOU LYING LIKE THIS????????
It was the Lord I will repost for you to read for yourself. Matter of fact I will post from 3 translations so you understand what is written in the Bible: You First Lie
So my Bible must be a lie or is it your Bible that is lying.
My Bible says Exactly what my passages said that it says. Not me using the passages and omitting the names of who the people were that God was talking to.
Lets brake down your plagarism.
Genesis 18:10-15 (New International Version) 10.Then the LORD said, "I will surely return to you about this time next year, and Sarah your wife will have a son." Now Sarah was listening at the entrance to the tent, which was behind him.
So if God was talking to Sarah why was she not outside the tent with Abrahim, and why was she listening from the entrance of thevtent if God was talking to her.This is the part that you take away because it spoils your argument
11.Abraham and Sarah were both very old by this time, and Sarah was long past the age of having children.
12.So Sarah laughed to herself as she thought, "After I am worn out and my master is old, will I now have this pleasure?"
This passage makes reference that when Sarah laughed it was to herself being that she was in the tent alone and not with God. And then it also clarifies that she was not talking to God when the passage says'She Thought". Meaning that she was thinking to herself not talking to God.
13 Then the LORD said to Abraham , "Why did Sarah laugh and say, 'Will I really have a child, now that I am old?' 14 Is anything too hard for the LORD ? I will return to you at the appointed time next year and Sarah will have a son."
Where is God talking to Sarah. More evidence that God was talking to Abraham and not Sarah, because God was talking outside of the tent with Abraham, and if Sarah was out with Abrahim talking to God, Abrahim would have heard her. tent It was not until after Abraham confronted Sarah about it did she lie about laughing when she overheard God tell Abraham she would have a child.:
15.Sarah was afraid, so she lied and said, "I did not laugh." But he said, "Yes, you did laugh."
This passage makes no refernce to God speaking to Sarah. Sarah lied about laughing to Abraham not God.
Posts: 163 | Registered: Mar 2010
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Why are you straying offtopic? Whats with all the attacks?? What of what I posted is wrong about muhammad???
This is why I try to keep things civil when talking to a muslim. All I have said about your prophet is FOUND in the "Holy" books of islam the Quran and hadith.
What about all those girls that were given to muslim men as dowry? Why did a Muslim the Ayatollah Komeni create a book where he said it's okay to sleep with a toddler and animals? Read this:
from “Tahrirolvasyleh” which Muslims probably don’t want you to know about Islam:
A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However, he should not penetrate vaginally, but sodomising the child is acceptable. If a man does penetrate and damage the child then, he should be responsible for her subsistence all her life. This girl will not count as one of his four permanent wives and the man will not be eligible to marry the girl’s sister… It is better for a girl to marry at such a time when she would begin menstruation at her husband’s house, rather than her father’s home. Any father marrying his daughter so young will have a permanent place in heaven. ["Tahrirolvasyleh", fourth edition, Qom, Iran, 1990]
A man can have sex with animals such as sheep, cows, camels and so on. However, he should kill the animal after he has his orgasm. He should not sell the meat to the people in his own village, but selling the meat to a neighbouring village is reasonable.
I just think we should be able to discuss things without insults and strawmen, yet you continue to insult and attack. This is not how you learn and it shows all you are good for is attacking the poster, instead of attacking the post. Sad
Peace
What does this prove that there are sick people in Islam. We do not plagarise our Holy Book like you have done.
It is you Christians who are uncivilised thinkers who fall on weak tactics.
You dont know what the Bible say, you cant read Hebrew matter of fact you dont even own a real Bible. I can read Arabic, so I know what my Quran says and i have one in Arabic. This is what it all boils down to.
One person trying to find God through another mans translation, no wonder you are so misguided.
Cristians are screwing the little boys and girls. Seems like Christians beleive in this guy teachings who claims he is Muslim. This is what he wrote because that was the only way to get more Christian to leave Christianity, and by the look of it its working.
Look at the Church!
Posts: 163 | Registered: Mar 2010
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You really are an odd one. You keep building strawmen. I highlighted the parts that should show you where you were wrong.
YOU first said that it was Abraham that was speaking to Sarah. I showed you it was The LORD said to Abraham not Abraham saying to Sarah. Then I highlighted the end of the post where God said Yes you did laugh. Who was he talking too if it was not Sarah who else was laughing?
Why are you making this passage so difficult? It was the Lord NOT Abraham. The passage is clear for anyone who reads it except YOU. God was speaking to Abraham when he asked her why she laughed, then when she said she did not laugh, God said but you did. How hard is that even a 5 yearold could understand this. Stop trying to win a debate and open your mind to learn.
Wow you claim to be a Muslim, yet you have never heard about the Ayatollah Khomeni of Iran???How old are you? You must be a youngin that thinks he knows everything. Sad that you are as brainwashed as you are.
EDIT: Bahahahahhahaahheheheheh I had to laugh, a Muslim that thinks he knows everything has no clue about the Ayatollah. Wow
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
I know who Ayatollah Khomeni is, dont give me the rundown. He's do different than the pedophiles in the Christian church.
Like I said you are a sucker, I will not debate with people that will twist facts like you have.
The little birdie on Kings shoulder says: Hey dumb dumb, Keep running into that wall! Dumb Dumb Hey dumb dumb, was Jesus a christian! dumb dumb Hey dumb dumb, when you are going to read the "real" scriptures Dumb Dumb Oh Dumb Dumb
Posts: 163 | Registered: Mar 2010
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Never have I twisted any FACTS. I post the FACTS from the one true Holy Book the Bible and I posted from the Quran, I did not twist any verses and I never sunk to your lowclass insults to prove my point.
Also I highly doubt you knew about Kohemni before I brought him up because you said this:
What does this prove that there are sick people in Islam.
You had NO clue how wide reaching was the Ayatollah and you are not the first muslim to have no clue about him. I debated other muslims who were just like you dumbfounded when I posted his "Little Green Book" Facts stand on their own and it shows from 3 translations that YOU were the one twisting Biblical verses. Too bad your prophet was also a pervert like Khomeni who promised his believers Women and Boys in Heaven. Sad really
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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Christians are not using the Bible as a strategy game to win debates. They are changing the words in passages to be right, instead of lettig passages speak for themselves.
Why is it that Christians are having their little boys and girls right now on earth, i bet you glad you dont have to wait?
Posts: 55 | Registered: Apr 2010
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posted
The serious posts that have something to do with Egypt or the region are supposed to be here in the Egyptology forum.
Other posts, despite the forum name are supposed to be on the Ancient Egypt Forum. Wally and I discussed this and as moderator in a couple more days I will be moving this thread to the ancient Egypt forum. Thank you for your cooperation.
Posts: 42937 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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This article exposes the Bible's hoaxes and indisputable corruption on several fronts:
Rebekah was proven to have never spoken directly with GOD Almighty.
Rebekah never believed that Isaac received or spoke directly with GOD Almighty.
Isaac's two corrupt blessing to Jacob were based on lies.
The account about Abraham wanted to sacrifice Isaac instead of Ishmael is proven to be a hoax.
A new false Prophecy in the Bible exposed.
The Glorious Quran in Noble Verse 5:41 is once again confirmed.
Isaac and Ishmael in Islam and Christianity:
The sections of this article:
1- The Bible was badly corrupted by its people. 2- The Jews received the highest number of Prophets. Yet, neither Moses nor Jesus nor several other Prophets liked the Jews! 3- Are Muslims then the "Chosen People" of GOD? If not, then who are?
4- Comparing the Bible's claims to the Noble Quran's about who was the Son to be sacrificed, Isaac or Ishmael?
(a)- Ishmael (Ismail) was the Son to be Sacrificed.
5- Conclusion.
Muslims believe that when Abraham peace be upon him, the father of Isaac and Ishmael (Ismail), offered his son for sacrifice for GOD Almighty, he offered Ishmael. Jews and Christians believe that he offered Isaac.
The conflict between the Jews and Christians, and the Muslims, is much more serious than disagreeing on a story. The Jews and Christians believe that any son or daughter born from a Servant or Slave woman is not considered a biological son or daughter. Muslims on the other hand, believe that any son or daughter born from any mother is a biological son or daughter. Not only that, but the slave woman instantly becomes free.
Please visit Islam came to end the Judeo-Christian and Pagan Slavery.
The Bible prohibits favoritism between sons: The following is an email I received from brother Ausaf; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him.
Salaam Brother,
I just wanted to make you aware of some more supporting arguments:
Deuteronomy 21:15-17: "If a man have two wives, one beloved and another hated, and they have born him children, both the beloved and the hated; and if the firstborn son be hers that was hated: Then it shall be, when he maketh his sons to inherit that which he hash, that he may not make the son of the beloved firstborn before the son of the hated, which is indeed the firstborn: But he shall acknowledge the son of the hated for the firstborn, by giving him a double portion of all that he hash: for he is the beginning of the strength; the right of the firstborn is his."
Here we can see that the first born son can NEVER be illegitimate and by birthright, should receive double the inheritance than any of his siblings.
Also, from the Encyclopaedia Judaica (p. 82 - under Ishmael):
Reported by Ibn Ishaaq: "Muhammad Ibn Ka'b narrated that 'Umar Ibn 'Abd al-'Aziz sent for a man who had been a Jew then converted to Islam and showed signs of true Islam. [Before his conversion], he was one of their scholars [i.e., he was a Jewish scholar] So he [i.e., 'Umar] asked him: which son did Abraham (P) sacrifice? He replied: 'It is Ishmael(P). By God, O Commander of the Believers, the Jews know that but they envy you - the Arabs.'
Thank you for reading this, Ausaf
Genesis 16:2-3 states that Hagar was given to Abraham as a wife:
"The story of Hagar is found in the Bible in the book of Genesis, chapters 16 and 21. Genesis 16:2-3 states that Hagar was an Egyptian servant belonging to Sarah, who, being barren, gave Hagar to her husband Abraham "to be his wife", so that he might still have children. She gave birth to a son, whom she named Ishmael."
The Jews' stories and accounts had all been altered and corrupted over time. This is no mere statement from me, your humble Osama Abdallah. The Bible's own theologians and historians openly admit and declare that the Bible's books and texts had all been:
Written by mysterious men. Written by an unknown number of men. Written in unknown places. Written in unknown dates. The Jews and Christians rely on corrupt books that are full of lies when they declare that:
1- Ishmael is not considered a legitimate son of Abraham by GOD Almighty.
2- Ishmael, who was 13 years older than Isaac, was not the son that offered for sacrifice.
Now whether Hagar was the wife of Abraham or not is really not relevant according to Islam, because regardless of her status, Ishmael remains the biological son of Abraham. In Islam, we believe that she became his wife. But really, this is irrelevant at best! The Jews lied and fabricated lies on the mouth of Allah Almighty when they said that He, the Almighty, does not consider Ishmael to be Abraham's real and biological son.
Again, ironically, the Bible's own theologians and historians openly admit and declare that the Bible's books and texts are full of man-made lies. So we can't take the bible's current accounts and say that this is a proof that Islam's accounts are false. Allah Almighty Declared in the Glorious Quran:
"Know they not Allah Knoweth what they conceal and what they reveal? And there are among them illiterates, who know not the Book, but (see therein their own) desires, and they do nothing but conjecture. Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say: 'This is from Allah,' To traffic with it for a miserable price! Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby. (The Noble Quran, 2:77-79)"
Please visit: Islam declares that the Bible is corrupt and full of falsehood.
Indeed, woe to those who fabricate lies on the Mouth of Allah Almighty! Ameen.
Also, please visit the following link to see ample irrefutable proofs about the Glorious Quran being truly from GOD Almighty:
The Overwhelming Scientific Miracles in the Glorious Quran.
Jews, Christians and Muslims all agree that Ishmael peace be upon him was 13 years older than Isaac peace be upon him. This means that the Muslims' claim is much closer to the Truth than the Jews' and Christians', because if we were to believe that Abraham offered Isaac for sacrifice to GOD Almighty, then he would've waited at least 13 years to do so if not even longer.
Please visit Is the substitution of name "Ishmael" with "Isaac" within the Biblical text a matter of great consequential significance for the followers of Jesus?
1- The Bible was badly corrupted by its people:
It is important to know that whatever claim you from a Jew or Christian backed up by the Bible, then that claim is highly doubtful and unreliable. Let us look at what GOD Almighty Said in the Bible:
"`How can you say, "We [the Jews] are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?' (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"
The Revised Standard Version makes it even clearer: "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie. (From the RSV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"
In either translation, we clearly see that the Jews had so much corrupted the Bible with their man-made cultural laws and fabrications, that they had turned the Bible into a lie! See Also Deuteronomy 31:25-29 where Moses peace be upon him predicted the corruption/tampering of the Law (Bible) after his death. The Book of Moses predicted that the Law (Bible) will get corrupted. The Book of Jeremiah which came approximately 826 years after did indeed confirm this corruption.
Please visit Contradictions and proofs of Historical Corruptions in the Bible.
Why did Allah Almighty allow for the Bible to get corrupted?
Also, please visit The original Bible was lost! See comments from Historians and Theologians from the commentary of the NIV Bible (one of the most used Bibles world wide) itself admitting that most of the Books and Gospels of the Bible are corrupted. No one ever claimed ownership of the current Books and Gospels. The owners/writers are unknown.
So knowing the above solid facts about the Bible's validity, one must ask a very simple question here: Why should we trust historical narrations from the Bible?
Since the followers of the Bible so obviously corrupted the Bible, then why should you take their narrations/stories about Abraham for instance, offering his son Isaac for GOD Almighty as a sacrifice? Couldn't this story be all false or altered?
Could it be that the Jews in order for them to prove their Satanic theory about them being GOD's "Chosen People" that they altered the Bible and came up with a bunch of nonsense such as a son born from a Slave woman is not considered a biological son to enforce Isaac's position since he came from a Jewish mother, and to make the Jews look even more superior?
What kind of a religion that accepts no converts and considers its people superior above all nations? Did you know that in Judaism, if your mother was Jewish, then you are automatically a Jew?
This whole corruption was created to only prove that Isaac was the son whom Abraham peace be upon him offered for Sacrifice, because his mother was Jewish, and to further as I said prove that the Jews are superior above all nations.
It just doesn't sound right. There is an obvious alteration that took place, and ironically, the Bible confirms this alteration in Jeremiah 8:8 and in the links that I provided above.
Please visit Is the substitution of name "Ishmael" with "Isaac" within the Biblical text a matter of great consequential significance for the followers of Jesus?
2- The Jews received the highest number of Prophets. Yet, neither Moses nor Jesus nor several other Prophets liked the Jews!
The old Jewish trick about Jews received the highest number of Prophets which then makes them GOD Almighty's "Chosen People" is nothing but a deception. In fact, it is a bad thing for the Jews that GOD Almighty kept sending them Prophets who many of them ended up getting killed anyway by the Jews themselves according to the Saying of Jesus peace be upon him below. We need to know that neither Moses nor Jesus nor many of the Prophets in the Bible really liked Jews! Let us look at the following:
From Moses:
"And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, That Moses commanded the Levites(Jews), which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee. For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the LORD; and how much more after my death? Gather unto me all the elders of your tribes, and your officers, that I may speak these words in their ears, and call heaven and earth to record against them. For I know that after my death ye will become utterly corrupt, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands. (Deuteronomy 31:25-29)"
From Jeremiah:
"How can you say, 'We [The Jews] are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie. (From the RSV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"
From Jesus:
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing. (From the NIV Bible, Matthew 23:37)"
Please visit Contradictions and proofs of Historical Corruptions in the Bible.
Why did Allah Almighty allow for the Bible to get corrupted?
The Jews were corrupt! They corrupted the Word of GOD Almighty. Like Jeremiah 8:8, the Noble Quran clearly states it:
"But on account of their breaking their covenant We cursed them (Jews and Christians) and made their hearts hard; they altered the words from their places and they neglected a portion of what they were reminded of; and you shall always discover treachery in them excepting a few of them; so pardon them and turn away; surely Allah loves those who do good (to others). (The Noble Quran, 5:13)"
"O Apostle! let not those grieve thee, who race each other into unbelief: (whether it be) among those who say "We believe" with their lips but whose hearts have no faith; or it be among the Jews,- men who will listen to any lie,- will listen even to others who have never so much as come to thee. They change the words from their (right) times and places: they say, 'If ye are given this, take it, but if not, beware!' If any one's trial is intended by God, thou hast no authority in the least for him against God. For such - it is not God's will to purify their hearts. For them there is disgrace in this world, and in the Hereafter a heavy punishment. (The Noble Quran, 5:41)"
Perhaps, that is why Allah Almighty decided to end His Message/Revelations with the Arabs, the other part of the Middle Eastern society that has not been polluted and unhampered by the burden of age-old prejudicies.
Please visit Is the substitution of name "Ishmael" with "Isaac" within the Biblical text a matter of great consequential significance for the followers of Jesus?
3- Are Muslims then the "Chosen People" of GOD? If not, then who are?
No race, color or gender are chosen by GOD Almighty in Islam. Everyone is evaluated by his Good Deeds.
Allah Almighty Said in the Noble Quran:
"O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other. Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well-acquainted. (The Noble Quran, 49:13)"
As I mentioned above, Muslims believe that the idea of "Chosen People" is a Jewish lie that was fabricated and inserted into the Bible to make the People of Israel be the Superior over all nations. The Bible, however, admits that it got corrupted by the Jews themselves, thus making their bogus claims get flushed right down the toilet.
Please visit Why did Allah Almighty allow for the Bible to get corrupted?
4- Comparing the Bible's claims to the Noble Quran's about who was the Son to be sacrificed, Isaac or Ishmael?
Let us look at what the Bible claims:
"By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had received the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son....(From the NIV Bible, Hebrews 11:17)"
Let us look at the validity of the Book of Hebrews in the Bible:
The following was take from the commentary of the Historians and Theologians of the NIV Bible to every Book and Gospel in the Bible:
The Book of Hebrews:
"The writer of this letter does not identify himself, but he was obviously well known to the original recipients. (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 1856)"
So because the guy was supposedly "well known (which we don't really know that for sure anyway)", then would that give us the right to consider his words as the Words of GOD Almighty?! I am sorry, but I don't really see the logic behind this! The Book of Hebrews is one of the highly used Books among Christians. I hear references from it a lot when listening to Christians preaching. Yet, no one really knows who wrote it!. This is quite ironic, because Christians use such highly doubtful books in their teachings as if they were the True Living Words of GOD Almighty. I don't care what you call this, but I call it blasphemy, because it is the most ridiculous insult to GOD Almighty and His Holy Words that I have ever seen.
I just hope you see the real cheap quality in the religion of Christianity, with all my respect due to every Christian reader.
Hebrews 11:17 was referring to the Book of Genesis' claims regarding Abraham supposedly offering Isaac for sacrifice. Therefore, let us examine the validity of the Book of Genesis:
The following was take from the commentary of the Historians and Theologians of the NIV Bible to every Book and Gospel in the Bible:
The Book of Genesis:
"Historically, Jews and Christians alike have held that Moses was the author/compiler of the first five books of the OT. These books, known also as the Pentateuch (meaning "five-volumed book"), were referred to in Jewish tradition as the five fifths of the law (of Moses). The Bible itself suggests Mosaic authorship of Genesis, since Ac 15:1 refers to circumcision as "the custom taught by Moses," an allusion of Ge 17. However, a certain amount of later editorial updating does appear to be indicated (see, e.g., notes on 14:14; 36:31; 47:11). (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 2)"
So in reality, the book of Genesis had been tampered with by man. It had been corrupted.
As we clearly see above, the author of the Book of Hebrews is not known. This means that anyone could've written this Book/Letter. This obviously would mean that the Book/Letter then would in no way be the True Living Words of GOD Almighty.
We also clearly see above, that the Book of Genesis had been altered and updated by people after Moses peace be upon him. Again, it is highly possible that when the Jews altered the Book of Genesis, they made it persuade the reader that Isaac was the son to be sacrificed, because his mother was Jewish. They also inserted the false claim, that any son born from a Slave woman is not considered a biological son.
Below, we will see how false their bogus claims are, and why did Abraham choose the name "Ishmael" for his first-born son, who was 13 years older than Isaac? The meaning of the name, Ishmael, is one proof that the Jews' claims are false.
(a)- Ishmael (Ismail) was the Son to be Sacrificed:
Let us look at what Allah Almighty Said:
" 'O my Lord! grant me a righteous (son)!' So We gave him the good news of a boy ready to suffer and forbear. Then when (the son) reached (the age of) (serious) work with him, He said: 'O my son! I see in vision that I offer thee in sacrifice: Now see what is thy view!' (The son) said: 'O my father! Do as thou art commanded: Thou wilt find me, if Allah so wills one practising patience and constancy!' (The Noble Quran, 37:100-102)"
Here we see Abraham peace be upon him prayed to Allah Almighty to grant him a righteous son. This was in the fertile land of Syria and Palestine. The boy thus born was, according to Muslim tradition, (which however is not unanimous to this point), the first-born son of Abraham, Ismail or Ishmael. The name itself is from the root Samia, to hear, because Allah had heard Abraham's prayer (Noble Verse 37:100). Abraham's age when Ismail was born was 86. [2]
Let us use some logic here: As I mentioned, the Bible claims that Abraham offered his son Isaac for sacrifice, and the Noble Quran claims that he offered Ishmael, who was 13 years older than Isaac for sacrifice. So, we have the Bible's word against the Noble Quran's.
As intelligent people with good common sense, we can tell what is true and what is false from the evidence provided. As mentioned above, if Ishmael means "to hear", then Abraham had named him as such, because Allah Almighty heard his prayer and granted him a son, his first-born son Ishmael.
Abraham was so happy to have his first-born son Ishmael at a very old age, that he named him a name that symbolizes his long patience and his gratefulness to GOD Almighty that he finally Heard Abraham and granted him his wish that he'd always wanted. Remember that Abraham was 86 when Ishmael was born. So Ishmael was NOT as the corrupted Bible claims, a not considered biological son to Abraham. Abraham adored Ishmael and loved him so dearly. The proof to this is as I said, Ishmael's name.
Important Note: As I mentioned above, Ishmael was 13 years older than Isaac, and Abraham loved GOD Almighty very much that he wanted to sacrifice his own son for Him. If Ishmael's name represents Abraham's gratefulness to GOD Almighty after a desperate long wait to have a son, then it makes perfect sense that Abraham wanted to sacrifice Ishmael to GOD Almighty by giving Him the most precious thing he ever had.
Let us continue reading what Allah Almighty Said in the Noble Quran:
"So when they had both [Abraham and Ishmael] submitted their wills (to Allah), and he had laid him prostrated on his forehead (for sacrifice), We called out to him, 'O Abraham! Thou hast already fulfilled the vision! - thus indeed do We reward those who do right. For this was obviously a trial - and We ransomed him with a momentous sacrifice: And We left (this blessing) for him among generations (to come) in later times: 'peace and salutation to Abraham!' Thus indeed do We reward those who do right. (The Noble Quran, 37:103-110)"
Note (in Noble Verse 37:103) that the sacrifice was demanded of both Abraham and Ismail. It was a trial of the will of the father and the son. By way of trial the father had the command conveyed to him in a vision. He consulted the son. The son readily consented, and offered to stand true to his promise if his self-sacrifice was really required. The whole things is symbolical. Allah does not require the flesh and blood of animals (Noble Verse 22:37), much less of human beings. But he does require the giving of our whole being to Allah, the symbol of which is that we should give up something very dear to us, if duty requires that sacrifice. [3]
"For he [Abraham] was one of our believing Servants. And we gave him the good news [a second-born son to come] of Isaac - a Prophet - One of the Righteous. (The Noble Quran, 37:111-112)"
Isaac was Abraham's second son, born of Sarah, when Abraham was 100 years of age. He was also blessed and became the ancestor of the Jewish people. [4]
Please visit Is the substitution of name "Ishmael" with "Isaac" within the Biblical text a matter of great consequential significance for the followers of Jesus?
5- Conclusion:
It is quite clear that Ishmael was the son to be sacrificed and not Isaac, peace be upon both of them. We also saw how corrupt the Bible is. The Bible is not reliable. It was badly tampered with by man's alterations and narrations, that we no longer can tell which parts of it are the True Living Words of GOD Almighty, and which aren't.
Ishmael was 13 years older than Isaac, and Abraham loved GOD Almighty very much that he wanted to sacrifice his own son for Him. If Ishmael's name represents Abraham's gratefulness to GOD Almighty after a desperate long wait to have a son, then it makes perfect sense that Abraham wanted to sacrifice Ishmael to GOD Almighty by giving Him the most precious thing he ever had.
Please visit Why did Allah Almighty allow for the Bible to get corrupted?
Allah, Islam, Quran, Muhammad questions and answers.
Rebekah's story is a clear and indisputable proof that the Bible's accounts are full of hoaxes!
What is the place of Jews, Christians and non-Muslims in Islam.
Contradictions and proofs of Historical Corruptions in the Bible.
Why did Allah Almighty allow for the Bible to get corrupted?
Is the substitution of name "Ishmael" with "Isaac" within the Biblical text a matter of great consequential significance for the followers of Jesus?
The Bible claims that Sarah (Isaac's mother) was Abraham's biological sister.
The "great nation" of Ishmael and its definition in the Bible.
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