posted
Not every Syrian was a Canaanite or Phoenician. The ancient Egyptian specifically used the term Fenkhu or Fenikes for the Phoenicians. Such people were among the ancient people known as the "black Syrians" to the Greeks.
One has to search around forever on the internet to find them. These came from Turkish sites.
Fenikes (Phoenicians) in ancient Egyptian paintings are almost always dark brown in color even in the rather late period of the Ramessids.
Phoenicians on their ships (Rameses period )
Donald Harden also has a painting of Fenkhu or Fenikes/Phoenicians on their ships from Byblos which I am still looking for.
They are tall slender bearded and dark brown in color.
Philistines are said to be descendants of the "Anakim" of Kana'an which is still the name of a central Arabian Dawasir tribe. The Old Testament also says the Amalekites, Amorites, Emim, Nephilim are the same people. These are the names of the tribes descendants from the Azd today still called Amlukh, Murad/Amurat, Umayma, Nifal who are in Arabian tradition always refered to as either akhdar "black" or jet black. Josephus calls the Amalekites "Phoenician shepherds."
THey are represented by many of the tall and near black people called Dawasir and Mahra and the people of Wadi Bisha and Jizzan who also have villages and clans called Kuna'an, Fanikha and Falsa.
Mahra of southern Arabia
Herodotus said the Phoenicians came from the Eritraean Sea. They also were associated with ancient Socotra one of the Mahra homelands.
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: Not every Syrian was a Canaanite or Phoenician. The ancient Egyptian specifically used the term Fenkhu or Fenikes for the Phoenicians. Such people were among the ancient people known as the "black Syrians" to the Greeks.
One has to search around forever on the internet to find them. These came from Turkish sites.
Fenikes (Phoenicians) in Egyptian paintings are almost always dark brown in color even in the rather late period of the Ramessids.
Phoenicians on their ships (Rameses period )
Donald Harden also has a painting of Fenkhu or Fenikes/Phoenicians on their ships from Byblos which I am still looking for.
They are tall slender bearded and dark brown in color.
Philistines are said to be descendants of the "Anakim" of Kana'an which is still the name of a central Arabian Dawasir tribe. The Old Testament also says the Amalekites, Amorites, Emim, Nephilim are the same people. These are the names of the tribes descendants from the Azd today still called Amlukh, Murad/Amurat, Umayma, Nifal who are in Arabian tradition always refered to as either akhdar "black" or jet black. Josephus calls the Amalekites "Phoenician shepherds."
THey are represented by many of the tall and near black people called Dawasir and Mahra and the people of Wadi Bisha and Jizzan who also have villages and clans called Kuna'an, Fanikha and Falsa.
"Whatever the origin of the name Phoenicia, which is a transliteration from ancient Greek usage, it certainly survives in West Arabia as the name of the village of Faniqa(pnq), in Wadi Bishah, where the village of Al Kun'an also stands." p. 159 of Kamal Salibi's, The Bible Came from Arabia.
Notice this Philistine man in his Aegean costume from the temple of Medinet Habu (Ramessid period) is the exact color of the Mahra.
When the ancestors of the pure Mahra and related Arabian people - who today CLAIM TO HAVE COME FROM AFRICA in a remote period - settled in Syria in the 2nd millenium B.C. they were called the Hyksos. The remnant of these people in the Aegean were the Philistines and Kefiu of Mycenae, Crete and Cappadacocia; and in Syria the Phoenicians and Solymi (Banyu Soleym) who were called eastern Ethiopians.
I will post an Egyptian painting of the Keftiu of Tunip - thought to have been the ancient Baalbek - soon.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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"black syrians" what funny stuff. You guys get more stupid everytime I stop by here. Aretha Franklin in Damascus
Posts: 2036 | From: Texas | Registered: Sep 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Hammer: "black syrians" what funny stuff. You guys get more stupid everytime I stop by here. Aretha Franklin in Damascus
Yes, Hammer - the Greeks were funny weren't they?
"Both the Cappadocians on the Pontus and those bordering on the Taurus were called Syrians by the Greeks, and White Syrians, to distinguish them from the Black Syrians beyond the Taurus". p. 271, The Penny cyclopædia of the Society for the Diffusion of Useful Knowledge, 1836.
"The Cha'ab Arabs who now occupy the southern parts of ancient Babylonia are almost black, while the Black Syrians mentioned by Strabo were probably the Babylonians." p. 281, The unrivaled history of the world: containing a full and complete record of the Human Race by Israel Smith Clare, 1889.
Interestingly the name of the Amanus Mountains of southern Syria where lived the "black Syrians" is said to have been derived from Khama-nu in cuneiform or black and is later called Djabal al Ukkam.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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What needs to be said is that people meaning mainstream are Afraid to posit that there was Black people outside of Africa. This would mean then that Africans were travelling to and from Arabia and that would make people wonder more about just how Important were Black people to the Ancient World.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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"The children of Ham possessed the land from Syria and Amanus, and the mountains of Libanus; settling all that was on its sea coasts, and as far as the ocean, and keeping it as their own. Some indeed of its names are utterly vanished away; others of them, being changed, and another sound given them, are hardly to be discovered; yet a few there are which have kept their names entire."
"Canaan, the fourth son of Ham, inhabited the country now called Judea, and called it from his own name Canaan."
Josephus Antiquities of the Jews
I know it hurts Hammer - but don't worry, they are no longer there. Except for these folks below called Kenaaniyya still in Jericho..
No not Aretha, Hammered - but maybe a distant cousin. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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What needs to be said is that people meaning mainstream are Afraid to posit that there was Black people outside of Africa. This would mean then that Africans were travelling to and from Arabia and that would make people wonder more about just how Important were Black people to the Ancient World.
Peace
Right King - and we have to remember, Hammer, is just here to troll. He knows there is know to refute what I have stated except by saying things like "well, at least they weren't Negroes". LOL.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Hammer: "black syrians" what funny stuff. You guys get more stupid everytime I stop by here. Aretha Franklin in Damascus
By the way Hammered, you do realize you keep calling Europeans stupid - right?
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Hammer: "black syrians" what funny stuff. You guys get more stupid everytime I stop by here. Aretha Franklin in Damascus
LOL - It is funny how they conflate and mold a modern socio-political term like 'Black' to hijack all civilizations. Culturally and genetically the modern day Lebanese are the direct descendants of Phoenicians. Subtropical people vary more in skin color than Yorubans and Bantus.
Dana must not realize that the Arab slave trade had a 900-1000 yr head start on the Europeans. And the Eastern Bantu 'commodity' was estimated at more than twice the total of the North/South Atlantic trade 'exports'.
Posts: 644 | Registered: May 2010
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^You and your fellow trolls claim the so-called Mahra pic represents indigenous South Arabians. So I guess their DNA should be similar to the Yemenese, Mozabites, Moroccans, Egyptians and other Near Easterners in this study, right?
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pssst, retard, first things first. you claim they are bantus. wheres the proof?
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Hammer: "black syrians" what funny stuff. You guys get more stupid everytime I stop by here. Aretha Franklin in Damascus
LOL - It is funny how they conflate and mold a modern socio-political term like 'Black' to hijack all civilizations. Culturally and genetically the modern day Lebanese are the direct descendants of Phoenicians. Subtropical people vary more in skin color than Yorubans and Bantus.
Dana must not realize that the Arab slave trade had a 900-1000 yr head start on the Europeans. And the Eastern Bantu 'commodity' was estimated at more than twice the total of the North/South Atlantic trade 'exports'.
NonSense - you must be new to this forum if you don't know what Arab slaves for 1500 years and more looked like. And i'm not going to go over it again and again as I have on this forum because it is not really my interest to insult people.
But when you can prove to me one single tribe of Arabs was looking other than the Mahra/Shahra people of modern Arabia (Oman and Hadramaut) and for that matter Socotra and Somalia originally, you can get back to me. Just to let you know. I am so happy to make your acquaintance. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Hammer: "black syrians" what funny stuff. You guys get more stupid everytime I stop by here. Aretha Franklin in Damascus
LOL - It is funny how they conflate and mold a modern socio-political term like 'Black' to hijack all civilizations. Culturally and genetically the modern day Lebanese are the direct descendants of Phoenicians. Subtropical people vary more in skin color than Yorubans and Bantus.
Dana must not realize that the Arab slave trade had a 900-1000 yr head start on the Europeans. And the Eastern Bantu 'commodity' was estimated at more than twice the total of the North/South Atlantic trade 'exports'.
NonSense - you must be new to this forum if you don't know what Arab slaves for 1500 years and more looked like. And i'm not going to go over it again and again as I have on this forum because it is not really my interest to insult people.
But when you can prove to me one single tribe of Arabs was looking other than the Mahra/Shahra people of modern Arabia (Oman and Hadramaut) and for that matter Socotra and Somalia originally, you can get back to me. Just to let you know. I am so happy to make your acquaintance.
Sorry Dana but you made the claim, so you're stuck with the burden of evidence.
Which of the populations in my previous posted link are the so-called Mahra people in the pic most similar to? Which admixture profile would best describe the Non-indigenous South Arabians?
Posts: 644 | Registered: May 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Hammer: "black syrians" what funny stuff. You guys get more stupid everytime I stop by here. Aretha Franklin in Damascus
LOL - It is funny how they conflate and mold a modern socio-political term like 'Black' to hijack all civilizations. Culturally and genetically the modern day Lebanese are the direct descendants of Phoenicians. Subtropical people vary more in skin color than Yorubans and Bantus.
Dana must not realize that the Arab slave trade had a 900-1000 yr head start on the Europeans. And the Eastern Bantu 'commodity' was estimated at more than twice the total of the North/South Atlantic trade 'exports'.
NonSense - you must be new to this forum if you don't know what Arab slaves for 1500 years and more looked like. And i'm not going to go over it again and again as I have on this forum because it is not really my interest to insult people.
But when you can prove to me one single tribe of Arabs was looking other than the Mahra/Shahra people of modern Arabia (Oman and Hadramaut) and for that matter Socotra and Somalia originally, you can get back to me. Just to let you know. I am so happy to make your acquaintance.
Sorry Dana but you made the claim, so you're stuck with the burden of evidence.
Which of the populations in my previous posted link are the so-called Mahra people in the pic most similar to? Which admixture profile would best describe the Non-indigenous South Arabians?
"Figure 3: Population structure inferred by ADMIXTURE analysis. From The genome-wide structure of the Jewish people Doron M. Behar,Bayazit Yunusbayev,Mait Metspalu,Ene Metspalu,Saharon Rosset,Jüri Parik,Siiri Rootsi,Gyaneshwer Chaubey,Ildus Kutuev,Guennady Yudkovsky,Elza K. Khusnutdinova,Oleg Balanovsky,Ornella Semino,Luisa Pereira,David Comas,David Gurwitz,Batsheva Bonne-Tamir,Tudor Parfitt,Michael F. Hammer,Karl Skorecki& Richard Villems Journal name: Nature Volume: 466, Pages: 238–242 Date published: (08 July 2010) DOI: doi:10.1038/nature09103 back to article Figure 3: Population structure inferred by ADMIXTURE analysis. ... Each individual is represented by a vertical (100%) stacked column of genetic components proportions shown in colour for K = 8. The Jewish communities are labelled in colour and bold. T and B further specify Sephardi Jews from Turkey and Bulgaria, respectively. Populations introduced for the first time in this study and analysed together with the Human Genome Diversity Panel18 data are marked with an asterisk."
UMMM - First you have to tell me if this was some kind of a joke. Because I didn't get it.
IF YOU POSTED THE WRONG LINK, I'LL GIVE YOU A CHANCE TO CORRECT IT, AND IF YOU DIDN'T PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW THE DNA OF TURKISH JEWS SAYS ANYTHING ABOUT THE ANCIENT AND MODERN CANAANITES AND THEIR ORIGINS!
I would also ask those reading this response to refrain from making any racist commentary because its unnecesary.
Thank you
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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... Subtropical people vary more in skin color than Yorubans and Bantus.
[/QUOTE]While ur at it you can explain the above statement. Because I definitely didn't get that one either.
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LOL, Non-Prophet and Hammer are typical Eurocentrics, in one breath they Rail against afrocentrics who claim a Black China or Black Europe but in the next expect black populations to be confined to one Place on Earth.
First off White Slaves as well as Black slaves were exported all over the Islamic world, including Syria, to say that Bantu's changed the populations or had a signifigant impact but not the Saqilibba or the slaves Taken Directly from North and western Europe(Don't know the Muslim Term for them) did not have an impact is a double standard seen by modern Eurocentrics.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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Dana I think the Phonecians like the Hebrews and Arabs were both brown and black as we can see. Its clear that the Phonecians were vital in bringing the first civilization to Europe, I.E the Minoan as we can see from their Art the Minoan culture was an obvious mix of Native Southern European, Egyptian and Phonecian culture..
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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And the truth is Jari - that the VAST MAJORITY of slaves brought into the Arab world - as all Middle East and North Africa specialists such as Bernard Lewis know and claim - came from the north until the 15th century fall of Constantinople.
As 14th century Syrian Dhahabi tells us slave was still SYNONYMOUS in his day with the "white" complexioned people of Syrian, Iranian Byzantine, Turkish, appearance.
Just as "Abid" signifies a black person today. It is mostly in this time sine the Fall of Constantinople when the Turks ruled and settled the Middle East that black African slaves came to be a significant proportion of the slaves brought into the Arab world.
There is even a book called THE BLACK SLAVES OF TURKISH ARABIA IN THE 19th CENTURY by by A. Jwaideh, 1988.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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You have to consider the contrasting yet view similiat yet contrasting viewpoints of Hammer and Non-Phophet. Both are united in their belief of black intellectual inferiority but they differ in belief. Hammer, being an American, probably developed his negative view of blacks from his social interactions. Non-phophet is probably a Mediterranea nationalist who is afraid of having minute traces of black ancestry. The fear of Mediterranean Europeans and other ''white'' eastern Mediterranean population accounts for the various websites resurecting defunct racial science. Fortunately for the more scientifically inclinded like Non-Phophet there is newfangled racial science under the guise of genetic studies. People like Non-Prophet have a pleatora of sources to convince the average racialist population of their position of a pure Near-eastern ''white'' race.
I know this is common knowledge but the following should give the readers of Egyptsearch a better understanding of the ideaologies of some of the posters.
Let me proclaim I am neither against nor for this viewpoint. As an objective person I would like all sides to debate untill we can come to a conclusion.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: Dana I think the Phonecians like the Hebrews and Arabs were both brown and black as we can see. Its clear that the Phonecians were vital in bringing the first civilization to Europe, I.E the Minoan as we can see from their Art the Minoan culture was an obvious mix of Native Southern European, Egyptian and Phonecian culture..
I agree the earliest Phoenicians and Hebrews were the same people. The Phoenicians or Fenkhu are always represented the color of the Egyptians and darker in their art. The name Hebrew refers to Heber or Abir the ancestor of the original semitic groups that left Southern Arabia.
In Arabic tradition Peleg or Falig is the ancestor of Arabian tribes such as Djurhum i.e. Hadoram whom colonialists say are also the Hadorab Beja.
That is why we still find among the Masruh, Dawasir and Mahra and other largely near black groups of Arabs still possessing such names mentioned in THE HEBREW book of Genesis as -
Qainan - Cainan (Dawasir tribal name) Mahli - Mahala'leel (Dawasir and Mahra) Hanish/Nahish - Enosh (Dawasir) Araimah - Aram (Dawasir) Dthu Shari - Asher (Dawasir) Ushayqir or Bait Isachron - Issachar (Dawasir and Mahra) Hanifah/Khanafir - Hophni (Dawasir and Mahra) Jada'ah - Gad (of the Ka'b bin Amer bin Za'za'a) Ja'halim - Jaalam (Dawasir) Ka'b - Jacob (Ka'b bin Amer bin Sa'sa'a) Dhuwayyin - plural for Dan (Dawasir) Banu Yam - Benjamin ( Dawasir) Rukhayla - Rachel - (Masruh/Hawazin/Sulaym) Rubanniyah - Reuben Yusef - Josef Manassir/ Mansur - Manasseh (Qays Ailan) Makhir/Makharam - Machir (Dawasir) Zubyan - Zibeon - Junaba Heiwat - Hivite (Masruh/Hawazin/Sulaym) Bashama - Bashema'ath Daus/Dawwas - Yeush? (Dawasir) Qarha - Korah - Qara ? Ais - Esau Ais is ancestor of Ma'aza and Ana'ayza or Anaeisa Kana'an - Kana'an (Dawasir) Ruha/ Rahawiyyin - Reu Dahman - Teman (Dawasir) Umar - Omar (Dawasir) Zaf - Zepho Kha'tham - Gatam in the Wadi Bisha Kenzirit - Kenaz or Qunays in Arabic (Mahra) Amlukh - Amalek (Ru'ayn branch of Himyar) El Ufaysan - Eliphaz (Dawasir) Nahadh - Nahath (Dawasir) Shammar - Shammah of the Tayyi brother of Maddhij Maza - Mizza Assir - Ezer Masha'i - Massa (Assyrians called them Masaa'i) Suhabeh - Shobal (Dawasir) Hannah - Anah (Dawasir) Jushayn - Dishan clan of Ru'ayn Himyarites Hamamah - Hemam (Dawasir) Shaphan - Shepho (Dawasir Ayyan - Aiah/Aya (Dawasir) Wusaila - Uzal (Dawasir) Za'id/Sheitanu - Zid/Sidon (Dawasir and Mahra) Bathran/Badran - Ithran (Dawasir) Hajr/ Hajar of Azd - Hagar Hamdan - Hamdan sometimes called "father of Maddhij" (Dawasir) Ruwalla - Reul (originally Murad related) Maddhij - Madi'an Nifal - Nephilim (Dawasir) Nafis - Nafish Huqban - Hogeb (Dawasir) Gharbiyah - Cherubim (Dawasir) Samudayt/Tamud of Duma'at - Duma'ah (Mahra) Masikha/Masaka - Mashek (Dawasir and Mahra) Ajlan - Eglon (Dawasir) Barik - Barak (Dawasir)
You also have the Azd and Dawasir place and people names signifying mainly the concubines among them such as
Bahilah of the early Azd - Bilha Umayma of the Bahilah - Emim Ghani of the Bahilah - Guni Suhm of the Bahilah Jafnah - Jephunneh (Ghassan) Kalb (Caleb) who formed teh tribes of Kinda Thaur (Shur) Zilf - Zilpah (in Dawasir region) Lailah - Delilah (Dawasir) Yamamah - Jemimah (Dawasir) Tamnah - Timnah (Dawasir) Raudhah - Rhoda (Dawasir) Ruwaidhah - Ruth (Dawasir) Suwaleim - Shulammites (Dawasir) Dulaym/Delim - Adullamites - (Dawasir) Murad/Amurat tribe of the Maddhij - Amorites (Madhij) Harb/Harub - Horeb of the Masruh/Hawazin Lehiyan - Lehi (of the modern Hudhail) Shenua/Shanoo - Senuah Shamran - Zimran or Shomran (of Samaria) Wabar/Wubar - Abar or Eber? Sarah - Sarah (Mahra) Kamar/Gamir - Gomer (Mahra) Dhaighera/Tukkara - Togarm'at(Mahra) Kathir - Keturah El Aoud or Awd - Lud Harim - Harim (Masruh/Hawazin) Al Jabir/Jubaren - Ghebers (Dawasir) Khaba'ir - Kabiri (Dawasir) Aden - Eden An-nakh/El-Nakha - Henoch (Maddhij) Qaran - (Cheran) Madhij Basman/Yashbin - Eshban (Dawasir)
You also have other well- described (black)historically documented Azd tribes of -
Aus - Uz Khazaras/Khazraj - Jazar Khaza'a - Hazo Ghassan - Kushan/Jokshan Ma'in/Ma'an - Me'unim Banui - Benui Ghafiq of Azd or Banu Akk - the latter is Og the Amorite
Also you have the modern Masruh (Misrah)/Sulaymiyyah/Hawazin group of Arabs symbolized by such tribes as the Huwayt'at whose names are those of the ancient Judaeans including the families mentioned particularly in Ezra 2 and Chronicles 25-26.
I am wondering why people are still talking of lost tribes of Israel when there are still people - most of them still NEAR BLACK - living under these Old Testament names in Arabia.
Huwayt'at Bedouin - described in the 9th century as the Arabs taking concubines from the Byzantines and still looking as black "like the lava of el Harra".
As mentioned by Kamal Salibi, Huwayit' is the plural in Arabic for Hatita(Ezra 2:42. Speaking of the Huwayt'at of Jordan, colonialist Burton talks of, “its present Huwayti owners, the Sulaymiyyin, the Sulaymat, the Jerafin, …” in Volume 2 of the Land of Midian.
Mahra man practicing the ancient art of his people - falconry. Mahra claim descent from the Kudha'a of the Humayr or Himyarites (Hamor?)
Dawasir tribesmen - Dawasir tribes claim descent from the Azd
Hawti families(Hevite?) of the Yemeni refugee camps today are listed in early Islamic sources as belonging to the Maddhij as do the Murad (Amorites), Qaran (Cheran), Nakha (Enoch/Anoch) and other people mentioned as Canaanites and Edomites in Genesis.
I have not even here brought up the fact of these names being found among the pre-Islamic tribes in black Africa.
Most people are not aware that the majority of semitic dialects are still found in Ethiopia as is the culture of the early Semites.
At some point both Afrocentrics and Euronationalists will have to come to grips with the fact that European and Euroasiatic people ARE NOE MENTIONED in Genesis - regardless of how late texts distort the issue claiming Japhet was white and Shem semi-white.
In fact - Mashek, Javan/Yavan, Teras/Idris/Tir, Tub'al and Elisha/Elyasa, Khitim/Cathim, Cadmus (Ghadames) etc. are ancient Afro-Arabian deity, chief and tribal names. The name Dodona or Rhodones is in fact Ruda. The Amalekite and other people evidently brought these names of the pleiades to the Aegean and Iran as the "rulers of foreign countries" or Hyksos.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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So what? Genesis is just an invention. Its mythology. No "twelve tribes" of Israel, no Abraham, no Moses, no Jesus.
quote:Originally posted by ausar: Let me proclaim I am neither against nor for this viewpoint. As an objective person I would like all sides to debate untill we can come to a conclusion.
Both sides have already come to their conclusions, hence the constant trolling from Hammer et al.
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing: So what? Genesis is just an invention. Its mythology. No "twelve tribes" of Israel, no Abraham, no Moses, no Jesus.
quote:Originally posted by ausar: Let me proclaim I am neither against nor for this viewpoint. As an objective person I would like all sides to debate untill we can come to a conclusion.
Both sides have already come to their conclusions, hence the constant trolling from Hammer et al.
If Genesis is mythology the names of the tribes are not. That's what. As you may have noticed the so-called missing or "lost" tribes of Israel are in the above list. Allegorical folk history would be a better word.
Why didn't you include the name of any Muslim figures? Much of that history is REAL mythology - and written by non-Arabs I might say.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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*sigh* They took names common in Mesopotamia (or southern Arabia depending on where you want to locate the mythology) and invented stories around them. Bam! A holy book!
quote:Why didn't you include the name of any Muslim figures? Much of that history is REAL mythology
Yes, myth too. But since its part of the "Abrahamic faiths" I just thought that was a given and so didn't need to mention it.
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing: *sigh* They took names common in Mesopotamia (or southern Arabia depending on where you want to locate the mythology) and invented stories around them. Bam! A holy book!
quote:Why didn't you include the name of any Muslim figures? Much of that history is REAL mythology
Yes, myth too. But since its part of the "Abrahamic faiths" I just thought that was a given and so didn't need to mention it.
Have it your way, anguish. As far as I'm concerned they are all allegories combined with history and based on knowledge coming from a single source anyway.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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^ myths are based on some form of reality anyway so we are not in total disagreement.
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by ausar: You have to consider the contrasting yet view similiat yet contrasting viewpoints of Hammer and Non-Phophet. Both are united in their belief of black intellectual inferiority but they differ in belief. Hammer, being an American, probably developed his negative view of blacks from his social interactions. Non-phophet is probably a Mediterranea nationalist who is afraid of having minute traces of black ancestry. The fear of Mediterranean Europeans and other ''white'' eastern Mediterranean population accounts for the various websites resurecting defunct racial science. Fortunately for the more scientifically inclinded like Non-Phophet there is newfangled racial science under the guise of genetic studies. People like Non-Prophet have a pleatora of sources to convince the average racialist population of their position of a pure Near-eastern ''white'' race.
I know this is common knowledge but the following should give the readers of Egyptsearch a better understanding of the ideaologies of some of the posters.
Let me proclaim I am neither against nor for this viewpoint. As an objective person I would like all sides to debate untill we can come to a conclusion.
Rather odd strawman remarks wouldn't you say? Since when did Moderator=Clinical Psychologist?
While you're here what are you moderators doing about preventing multiple troll accounts coming from single IP addresses? You must be aware that ES has become a laughing stock forum full of Nazi and Afro Bigot trolls to most respected Anthropology sites? I try to post realistic info to enlighten the place a bit and counter the pseudo-scholar bullsh!t claims.
Posts: 644 | Registered: May 2010
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^^^^^ Mathilda if you really want to contribute drop the Better than thou attitude and join ESR it has Moderators who are not bias(Unlike your blog) you can present an opposing argument. As a matter of fact you can help spread ESR to others, help bring in some intelligentsia unless you don't really want a Moderated forum meaning you are just as much a troll as folks like the Fradulent Busted Tranny...
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: ^^^^^ Mathilda if you really want to contribute drop the Better than thou attitude and join ESR it ad Moderators who are not bias you can present an opposing argument. As a matter of fact you can help spread ESR to others, help bring in some intelligentsia unless you don't really want a Moderated forum meaning you are just as much a troll as folks like the Fradulent Busted Tranny...
Yes Jari thanks sorta for the complement but remember you tried that same troll tactic with your alias accounts. I have more technical, scientific training than Mathilda. What the hell do you contribute except for ad homs? Better than thou? LOL ESR? WTF
I prefer video discussions because they eliminate the anonymous cowardly fakes and frauds. Prerequistes must also include ability to reason, basic logic and some college education.
Posts: 644 | Registered: May 2010
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Notice the troll with "more technical, scientific training than Mathilda" finds time to mud sling with others but skips Dana's posts. Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: Yes, Hammer - the Greeks were funny weren't they?
LOL Of course Hammered-brains is completely ignorant of the Greek writings because if he weren't, her would know they spoke of 'Melanosyrians' and 'Leucosyrians' i.e. Black-Syrians and White-Syrians respectively.
As for your topic question Dana, I believe one reason why is because nobody is probably able to get hold of such pictures. I for one have searched the net for years and all I have seen besides the first picture in the top you posted which I and others have posted in this forum countless times.
But getting back to Greek accounts, I am sure you are well aware that the Greeks' label of 'Aethiopia' was applied to the Levant first before any land in Africa. It was the same 'Aethiopia' that Perseus met and wed princess Andromeda daughter of King Cepheus and Cassiopeia.
Furthermore, this is what Herodotus said of the origin of the Phoenicians:
"According to the Persians best informed in history, the Phoenicians began the quarrel. These people, who had formerly dwelt on the shores of the Erythraean Sea (modern Yemen), having migrated to the Mediterranean and settled in the parts which they now inhabit, began at once, they say, to adventure on long voyages, freighting their vessels with the wares of Egypt and Assyria…"
^ Wow, I guess this further supports your theory of the Canaanites being of southern Arabian origins. Mind you, according to Greek mythological accounts, both Arabia and Aethiopia/Phoenicia were founded by the gods Belos and Agenor respectively who are the sons of the goddess Libya (Africa).
And of course we can't forget the Biblical account of Canaan being one of the sons of Ham. Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Contains the most powerful chants I've used yet, for change., October 16, 1999 This review is from: Healing Mantras: Using Sound Affirmations for Personal Power, Creativity, and Healing (Paperback) No review here. Sorry. Nothing but praise. This book is changing my life so fast that I feel like I'm in a dream! I've used the Nam Myoho Renge Kyo Buddhist chant for years to transform my life internally and externally, but its brought up so much karma I knew I had to find a new and gentler path. Now, mystical happenings abound in a more directed way, and it's only been a few weeks! These mantras give one the power to work on specific problems related to everything from finance and relationships to physical and mental affliction. The results I've had have been tremendous!! Incredibly well-written, and easy to read, no doubt due to the Saraswati chant by the author. The mantras in this book if done as a "Sadhana" advised by Mr. Ashley-Farrand (40 days straight)I'm sure can change one's life dramatically as if one were taking medecine. They'll be making a dent in many people's negative karma soon, ultimately changing the course of the world. As far as I'm concerned, this book will make a priceless gift to loved ones. God bless!!
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: ^^^^^ Mathilda if you really want to contribute drop the Better than thou attitude and join ESR it ad Moderators who are not bias you can present an opposing argument. As a matter of fact you can help spread ESR to others, help bring in some intelligentsia unless you don't really want a Moderated forum meaning you are just as much a troll as folks like the Fradulent Busted Tranny...
Yes Jari thanks sorta for the complement but remember you tried that same troll tactic with your alias accounts. I have more technical, scientific training than Mathilda. What the hell do you contribute except for ad homs? Better than thou? LOL ESR? WTF
I prefer video discussions because they eliminate the anonymous cowardly fakes and frauds. Prerequistes must also include ability to reason, basic logic and some college education.
No one is complimenting you Mathilda, you and you cockroach lies have been exposed. You see at least I KNOW this site is a troll haven I mean I have plenty of pics and info I could post but why should I, so the Fradulent busted Tranny or his other 15 aliased could ruin my stuff?? If I wanted I could go to ESR which I do. You on the other hand seem to relish the fact that this forum is a ghetto of Nazi's and Black Melanin psudo scholars..back when the intelligentcia was here you were rather quiet..a non factor. Now you seem to have courage, All Im asking is why??
Video disussion, what do you want to discuss?? If I could make videos I would but I don't know how..sorry Kid.
I like how you think your "Holier than Thou" attitude is somehow a benfit to you. Must give you the sense of bravery and intelligence huh Mathilda.
Oh BTW, there is something called a Member # and a common fact in my "Different Alaises accounts" the fact that my name Jari is present. I have only one account but I guess that slipped your mind..LOL.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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Both the Cappadocians on the Pontus and those bordering on the Taurus were called Syrians by the Greeks, and White Syrians, to distinguish them from the Black Syrians beyond the Taurus". p. 271, The Penny cyclopædia of the Society for the Diffusion of Useful Knowledge, 1836
quote:we learn by extracts from a hausa record, of which the original has unfortunately been destroyed, that the people of ghana were anciently known by the name towrooth or taurud, and that they claimed to have come from teh territory lying between the tigris and the euphrates
tropical dependancy
-------------------- لا اله الا الله و محمد الرسول الله Posts: 495 | From: anchorage, alaska | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: Yes, Hammer - the Greeks were funny weren't they?
LOL Of course Hammered-brains is completely ignorant of the Greek writings because if he weren't, her would know they spoke of 'Melanosyrians' and 'Leucosyrians' i.e. Black-Syrians and White-Syrians respectively.
As for your topic question Dana, I believe one reason why is because nobody is probably able to get hold of such pictures. I for one have searched the net for years and all I have seen besides the first picture in the top you posted which I and others have posted in this forum countless times.
But getting back to Greek accounts, I am sure you are well aware that the Greeks' label of 'Aethiopia' was applied to the Levant first before any land in Africa. It was the same 'Aethiopia' that Perseus met and wed princess Andromeda daughter of King Cepheus and Cassiopeia.
Furthermore, this is what Herodotus said of the origin of the Phoenicians:
"According to the Persians best informed in history, the Phoenicians began the quarrel. These people, who had formerly dwelt on the shores of the Erythraean Sea (modern Yemen), having migrated to the Mediterranean and settled in the parts which they now inhabit, began at once, they say, to adventure on long voyages, freighting their vessels with the wares of Egypt and Assyria…"
^ Wow, I guess this further supports your theory of the Canaanites being of southern Arabian origins. Mind you, according to Greek mythological accounts, both Arabia and Aethiopia/Phoenicia were founded by the gods Belos and Agenor respectively who are the sons of the goddess Libya (Africa).
And of course we can't forget the Biblical account of Canaan being one of the sons of Ham.
Yes - Djehuti, I agree with a lot of what you said and know about the story of Cepheus (the pole star - Kapi) and Casseiopeia and believe they may have also been the traditional tribal ancestors Khafafa of the Banu Soleym and Assiya (Asenath) because there is a tradition that that Cepheus was Epaphus mentioned by St. Isidore. This would link all three names to "Ethiopian" people called Amlukh or Melucha who appear to be the Hyksos with their chief(s) named Apophis or Apachnes.
I also think this is why later Greeks claimed that all of the names of the Gods came from Ethiopia and that the "Ethiopi" were "favorites of the Gods".
Libya by the way is also named "the daughter of Epaphus". And the story of Cepheus is of course linked to that of the earliest Persians who were called Cephenians by the Greeks, just like the Ethiopians were.
Certain people have tied the name of Cepheus to that of Khufu. In any case Kasiyope is mentioned in Abyssinian royal genealogy lists as third in reign after Kalnis (Calneh of the Bible - i.e., Kahlan brother of Himyar) whose father is Akbunas Saba or Saba the story is thus definitely related to the people who founded Saba and Himyar.
The earliest rulers of Saba and Iram are, in fact, called Amalekites or Adites or Aad. In fact, I believe Martin Bernal and others were on the right track and most of the Greek and Indo-European deities and mythology have strong links to this Hyksos period. That is why I think it is important to trace these "Ethiopians" i.e. - the children of Shem, Ham and Japhet - to their original position in South Arabia.
Of course they got there from Africa. There were movements beginning in the neolithic and continuing in the Bronze Age when rock art similar to that of the Amratian and Naqqada periods in Nubia and Upper Egypt and the Red Sea Hills begins to appear along the Arabian coasts. The earlest movements brought tall people related to modern East Africans (whose remnants are represented by the tall and near black Dawasir and Mahra of Arabia) into Arabia and the Levant. The later movements brought small, gracile Beja related peoples still occupying some of the coasts of Arabia. (Both of these groups probably found there way to India through Mesopotamia and Elam.) These "Ethiopi" brought in their African story of being the children of the ark of Noah, or "Nu", as the Egyptians called the deity.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by ausar: You have to consider the contrasting yet view similiat yet contrasting viewpoints of Hammer and Non-Phophet. Both are united in their belief of black intellectual inferiority but they differ in belief. Hammer, being an American, probably developed his negative view of blacks from his social interactions. Non-phophet is probably a Mediterranea nationalist who is afraid of having minute traces of black ancestry. The fear of Mediterranean Europeans and other ''white'' eastern Mediterranean population accounts for the various websites resurecting defunct racial science. Fortunately for the more scientifically inclinded like Non-Phophet there is newfangled racial science under the guise of genetic studies. People like Non-Prophet have a pleatora of sources to convince the average racialist population of their position of a pure Near-eastern ''white'' race.
I know this is common knowledge but the following should give the readers of Egyptsearch a better understanding of the ideaologies of some of the posters.
Let me proclaim I am neither against nor for this viewpoint. As an objective person I would like all sides to debate untill we can come to a conclusion.
Agreed Ausar - "and new-fangled" is an understatement. Some of the new interpretations of genetic "science" make the distorted views of the "Mediterranean race" concept in early physical anthropology look mild. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: [QUOTE]Originally posted by dana marniche: [qb] Fenikes (Phoenicians) in Egyptian paintings are almost always dark brown in color even in the rather late period of the Ramessids.
Phoenicians on their ships (Rameses period )
More recent colonialist painted portrait of Northwest Arabian tribesman
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by dana marniche Philistines are said to be descendants of the "Anakim" of Kana'an which is still the name of a central Arabian Dawasir tribe. The Old Testament also says the Amalekites, Amorites, Emim, Nephilim are the same people. These are the names of the tribes descendants from the Azd today still called Amlukh, Murad/Amurat, Umayma, Nifal who are in Arabian tradition always refered to as either akhdar "black" or jet black. Josephus calls the Amalekites "Phoenician shepherds."..
I thought the Bible stated that the Philistines were descendants of the Casluhim which was descended from Mizraim (Egypt). Though archaeology shows a later Philistine people associated with Aegean peoples. Also, where in the Old Testament does it say or identify who the 'Nephilim' are? I thought the term meant something like 'fallen ones', and what does this have to do with the various people you mentioned?
I also question your claims of ancient Indians and Iranians having any recent African ancestry from the Bronze Age.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by dana marniche Philistines are said to be descendants of the "Anakim" of Kana'an which is still the name of a central Arabian Dawasir tribe. The Old Testament also says the Amalekites, Amorites, Emim, Nephilim are the same people. These are the names of the tribes descendants from the Azd today still called Amlukh, Murad/Amurat, Umayma, Nifal who are in Arabian tradition always refered to as either akhdar "black" or jet black. Josephus calls the Amalekites "Phoenician shepherds."..
I thought the Bible stated that the Philistines were descendants of the Casluhim which was descended from Mizraim (Egypt). Though archaeology shows a later Philistine people associated with Aegean peoples. Also, where in the Old Testament does it say or identify who the 'Nephilim' are? I thought the term meant something like 'fallen ones', and what does this have to do with the various people you mentioned?
I also question your claims of ancient Indians and Iranians having any recent African ancestry from the Bronze Age.
Djehuti - I am now suspecting you have not looked at - The Bible Came From Arabia - as I have suggested when i was trying to talk about the Hyskos previously and their relationship to the name Misrah an ancient and modern Arabian tribal and village name.
Casluhim, Misraim Lehabim, Philistim are all Arabian tribal names according to the thesis of Kamal Salibi - which is a theory I have adopted. The names Anakim, Rephaim, Nephilim, Emim, Amorim as I have explained previously are probably the same as modern tribal names and mostly in the Asir and Yemenite region.
A book has already been written about much of this and it is called - The Bible Came from Arabia.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: [QUOTE]Originally posted by dana marniche [qb] I also question your claims of ancient Indians and Iranians having any recent African ancestry from the Bronze Age.
I can not worry about this part. There is no more or less proof than there is to show that blacks were in the Mediterranean or in Asia at all. Most of it came from Arabia in the Bronze Age - not Africa. The Bronze Arabians for the most part were also derived from Africa during the Neolithic, and not the Bronze Age.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
I neglected to add that the Bronze Age Iranians Egyptians, Saharans, Syrians etc. are all designated belonging to the southern Mediteranean type or Eurafrican, i.e. the "hamite". of course, this was also the case for4 early Bronze Age Turkey and Mesopotamia. Zarahan has also posted some of these findings on the early Namazgha cultures. The Namazgha 4 had its roots in Syro-Anatolia - land of the Medes.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
^ Again, I don't deny the existence of blacks in those areas of Eurasia, but do you not they represent indigenous Eurasians as opposed to African immigrants?
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ Again, I don't deny the existence of blacks in those areas of Eurasia, but do you not they represent indigenous Eurasians as opposed to African immigrants?
I probably didn't understand the question fully because of the syntax, but it depends on what you mean by indigenous, especially if you are talking about certain the Bronze Age cultures in Asia. Of course they were indigenous.
But, it has to be admitted that there was Afro-Asiatic culture widespread in the Bronze Age. Some of them have roots in the Neolithic movements. There is also a strong link between the "painted pottery" people for example of Europe and Asia who were undoubtedly the gracile Negroid Afro-Mediterraneans or black types now found mostly in Arabia and north east Africa. There are certain strong cultural and physical anthropological links that really qualify certain early cultures in Asia as African-Asiatic and, I'm not just talking of the early semitic speakers.
It is clear some people of black African or sub-Saharan affiliation moved at various periods in the Neolithic and Bronze Ages into Asia (Arabia and Mesopotamia dn ethe Levant) bringing in the Semitic and probably earliest Dravidian populations adn culture, unless the Dravidians are themselves the ancestors of certain African Saharans.
The reality is it only takes a few weeks or several weeks to cross the Arabian peninsula by camel caravan. So the idea that Africans were not able to move and settle into parts of Asia or India when it is clear they were already engaged in international trade is rather ridiculous. There obvious movements in the opposite direction as with the Umm- an Nar culture.
The misunderstanding about the capabilities of early man especially African man and his involvement in trade is the root of the belief that east Indians for example were a seperate type of black man with some unique gene pool that has been in place 100,000 years. When in fact they are hardly a racial type so to speak as much as the result of peoples mixing and being invaded for the last 10,000 years and mainly by black types.
There are also, of course, black people that have been in Asia for 10s of thousands of years like the small brachycephalic groups in Cambodia southern and southeast Asia in general the Mais, Kams and certain of the Papuan groups and so called Negritos, Andamans etc., all classified as either Melanesian, Oceanic or Australoid depending on the whim of the anthropologist. Nevertheless there are also people that have a more recent history of moving into Melanesia which is evident by certain Fijian traditions and again anthropological evidence.
Some of the "Australoid" groups in India and Australia have also definitely been in southern Asia for many 10s of thousands of years, however, there have been groups now speaking Austronesian that have obvious links to peoples further west during the Neolithic including Africa.
Archeology also shows that some of the people in East Africa are in fact descendants of Bronze Age Afro-Arabian people that moved from Arabia back into Africa after the 2nd milllenium. And there was definitely a connection of the Umm an- Nar culture of the Bronze age with later Kerma.
So as I have said before I don't look at Africa as so much a continent many of the early people in Asia are linked with Africans in ways that Europeans and Eurasiatics are not. I think we should all agree with Hanihara and Brace in this respect.
As for relatively recent immigrations of African-looking people into Asia the only ones that I know of are the Arabians and the Zanj. I also know the Hadoram of southern Arabia have immigrated to Indonesia in relatively recent times (after Islam). They immigrated in pre Christian times to Africa as well where they are called Hadorab (a branch of the Bedja).
I believe the earliest Namazgha culture was linked to the early gracile Negroid people who can be classified as remnants of early Eurasians. Later Bronze Age Namazgha cultures have other links probably to the original semites and then latest Namazgha V if I am recalling correctly and the iron age linked to the Swat area and modern European types i.e. white Scythians.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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