posted
I found some videos of Ja'afrah Arabs who invaded Aswan area in the Middle Ages and it's absolutely horrifying to watch. Just look at those fake Arab Egyptians! I hope that one day the united of Baladi, Saidi and Nubian forces will be able to kicked them out of Kemet!
posted
Wow the last time you posted was in 2006...Ausar I think Yazid is being sarcastic..
Posts: 8805 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
I know that he is Jari but I wanted him to answer for himself. He is an advocate of modern Egyptians abandoning pre-Islamic identity for Arab identity.
As far as the Ja'afra and Ababda in Aswan they identify more so with Arabs than with Egyptians as a whole. In the case of the Ja'afra they are simply Arabized Nubians; while Ababda are actually simply heavily mixed Beja tribes.
Most of the government officials from Middle, Upper and even southern Upper Egypt come from these tribes. Unfortunately, this region of Egypt is marred with lots of tribal conflict.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Unfortunately, I have no formal references but you may want to try Yusef Fadl Hassan's The Arabs and the Sudan for a reference on some of the Ja'afra being descended from arabized Nubians.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by alurubenson: ausar . do u know where I can find any info on them being nubian because one of the guys said that the tribe is from the ashraf.
There are many African tribes who claim Ashraf upon being Arabized. It's best to take such claims with a grain of sand unless you choose Dana and Wesley Muhammad's theory that they actually represent Quraysh/Muhammad's descendants. Black peoples may be indigenous to Arabia but that doesn't mean all Arab invaders of Africa were black.
Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
The hierarchy in Upper Egypt goes as follows: asraf, Arabs, Copts and Fellahin. Some of the asraf are bedouin tribes in Upper Egypt but many are probably fellahin that embellished their lineage for a fake pedigree.
Its true that in today's Upper Egypt your lineage is not that much of a factor but most represenatives from Upper Egypt tend to come from the Asraf or arab tribes in Upper Egypt. The Copts are well represented because of their large wealth. However, they still donot have as much political clout as the ashraf.
The following hierarchy is only true as far as Middle and Upper Egypt. Once to get to Qena or Aswan it becames the area that has been heavily controled by the Ja'afra or Ababda groups. Both claim they are bedouin straight from Saudi Arabia but most are either Beja or Nubian groups that mixed with bedouin Arabs and became Arabized.
Arab infiltraition of Arab and Nubian groups was easy because most inheiritance of power amongst the two was matrilineal. This meant the male children of Nubian or Beja women were prime canidates for clan rulership.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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djehuti is it possible to name some of these african tribes that claim ashraf because the ashraf tribes are known in africa and they are not that many as compared to the other arab tribes
Posts: 495 | From: anchorage, alaska | Registered: Feb 2007
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Ah, the ol' antagonist Ayazid is back. Alas, the creepy newbies that come to ES these days make the trolling days of posters like Ayazid seem fairly tame by comparison; they actually make Ayazid look very sane.
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:but that doesn't mean all Arab invaders of Africa were black.
This is true. The invading arab were never a big number to begin with, this is y u would have to dig more into the arab histories to see this. alot of the inavding armies into egypt were of syrian stock because they were conscripted. this was normal. you find the same thing in the histories of herodotus when he talks of the persian conquest, or the crusades or the fulani jihad and teh united states in some of their wars. armies conscript or seek help from teh local population who later assimulate into the invading society. How many whites amongst america are really of the original anglo-saxon stock. very few. the majority of whites are actually assimilated whites and would not have been considered white at all by their so-called forefathers read what benjamin franklin says:
quote:the Number of purely white People in the World is proportionably very small. All Africa is black or tawny. Asia chiefly tawny. America (exclusive of the new Comers) wholly so. And in Europe, the Spaniards, Italians, French, Russians and Swedes, are generally of what we call a swarthy Complexion; as are the Germans also, the Saxons only excepted, who with the English, make the principal Body of White People on the Face of the Earth. I could wish their Numbers were increased. And while we are, as I may call it, Scouring our Planet, by clearing America of Woods, and so making this Side of our Globe reflect a brighter Light to the Eyes of Inhabitants in mars or Venus, why should we in the Sight of Superior Beings, darken its People? why increase the Sons of Africa, by Planting them in America, where we have so fair an Opportunity, by excluding all Blacks and Tawneys, of increasing the lovely White and Red? But perhaps I am partial to the complexion of my Country, for such Kind of Partiality is natural to Mankind
-------------------- لا اله الا الله و محمد الرسول الله Posts: 495 | From: anchorage, alaska | Registered: Feb 2007
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"And in Europe, the Spaniards, Italians, French, Russians and Swedes, are generally of what we call a swarthy Complexion; as are the Germans also, the Saxons only excepted, who with the English, make the principal Body of White People on the Face of the Earth. I could wish their Numbers were increased.? "
Wow, Benjamin Franklin the Brit calling the Swedes and Germans "swarthy" - that's a little weird. Colonial America sounds frankly - quite frightening. No wonder everyone had such a hard time coming over here. lol!
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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this is really no different when u see whites saying that they are dark. It gets on my nerves but they are really speaking from their cultural view this is why he carefully said are generally of what we call a swarthy Complexion the same effect would happen when a westerner finds that the original arabs used the word white for a person of this complexion
-------------------- لا اله الا الله و محمد الرسول الله Posts: 495 | From: anchorage, alaska | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by ausar: The hierarchy in Upper Egypt:
Wait -- didn't you once say that people don't mess with Sa3eedi, Aswan people, or something like that?
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
That's correct, whatbox. Sa3eedi are tough people that have quick tempers.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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based off the original arab's terminology for skin color specifically. books you can reference are
1.fiqh al-lughta by mansur athalabi (961-1038 C.E.) 2.jawaahir uqood wa mueen qudaa wa al-mauq'een wa shuhud by muhammad bin ahmad bin ali bin abdulkhaliq asuyooti(1410-1475 C.E.)
These are the two most authoritative books on the understanding of terminology used amongst the arabs of the past.
quote:Are you Arab?
Yes
-------------------- لا اله الا الله و محمد الرسول الله Posts: 495 | From: anchorage, alaska | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:but that doesn't mean all Arab invaders of Africa were black.
This is true. The invading arab were never a big number to begin with, this is y u would have to dig more into the arab histories to see this. alot of the inavding armies into egypt were of syrian stock because they were conscripted. this was normal. you find the same thing in the histories of herodotus when he talks of the persian conquest, or the crusades or the fulani jihad and teh united states in some of their wars. armies conscript or seek help from teh local population who later assimulate into the invading society. How many whites amongst america are really of the original anglo-saxon stock. very few. the majority of whites are actually assimilated whites and would not have been considered white at all by their so-called forefathers read what benjamin franklin says:
the Number of purely white People in the World is proportionably very small. All Africa is black or tawny. Asia chiefly tawny. America (exclusive of the new Comers) wholly so. And in Europe, the Spaniards, Italians, French, Russians and Swedes, are generally of what we call a swarthy Complexion; as are the Germans also, the Saxons only excepted, who with the English, make the principal Body of White People on the Face of the Earth. I could wish their Numbers were increased. And while we are, as I may call it, Scouring our Planet, by clearing America of Woods, and so making this Side of our Globe reflect a brighter Light to the Eyes of Inhabitants in mars or Venus, why should we in the Sight of Superior Beings, darken its People? why increase the Sons of Africa, by Planting them in America, where we have so fair an Opportunity, by excluding all Blacks and Tawneys, of increasing the lovely White and Red? But perhaps I am partial to the complexion of my Country, for such Kind of Partiality is natural to Mankind
LOL Your point about the 'Arabs' is taken. Interesting quote by Ben Franklin by the way.
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: "And in Europe, the Spaniards, Italians, French, Russians and Swedes, are generally of what we call a swarthy Complexion; as are the Germans also, the Saxons only excepted, who with the English, make the principal Body of White People on the Face of the Earth. I could wish their Numbers were increased.? "
Wow, Benjamin Franklin the Brit calling the Swedes and Germans "swarthy" - that's a little weird. Colonial America sounds frankly - quite frightening. No wonder everyone had such a hard time coming over here. lol!
Indeed. I find it hilariously ironic that Ben Franklin and likely many of his peers who felt the same way would limit the label of 'white' to only the fairest Europeans! I wonder what they would think of the writings of their kinsmen just decades later when they include everyone from Africans and Indians to Polynesians as part of the "white race"! Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by alurubenson: this is really no different when u see whites saying that they are dark. It gets on my nerves but they are really speaking from their cultural view this is why he carefully said are generally of what we call a swarthy Complexion the same effect would happen when a westerner finds that the original arabs used the word white for a person of this complexion
Ancient Egyptian writings describe people often women as having bright color and sometimes uses the word yellow or golden which they substitute with 'white'. Many Euronuts try to twist this to mean actual white skin when that is obviously not the case!
Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Ibn Manzur wrote essentially the same as Dhahabi in his Lisaan al Arab: 'The Arabs don’t say a man is white [or: “white man,” rajul abya∙] due to a white complexion. Rather, whiteness [al-abyad with them means an external appearance that is free from blemish; when they mean a white complexion they say ‘red’ (ahmar)… And THE ARABS ATTRIBUTE WHITE (AHMAR) SKIN TO THE SLAVES."
An ancient Arab poem describes the “sons of Abyssinia” as having both “white faces” and “black faces” with hair of long peppers' (Nicolle, D. & McBride, A. (1991). Romes enemies 5: The desert frontier. Oxford and NewYork: Osprey Publishing, p. 11).
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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Sahih al-Bukhari’s hadith, “One Fifth of the Booty to the Cause of Allah” has been translated:
“Once we were in the house of Abu Musa who presented a meal containing cooked chicken. A man from the tribe of Bani Ta’im Allah with red complexion, as if he were from the captured Byzantine slaves, was present.”
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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"You insulted (the family of the Prophet) because of their blackness (bi-l-sawad), while there are still deep black, pure-blooded Arabs. However, you are white – the Romans (Byzantines) have embellished your faces with their color. The color of the family of Hashim was not a bodily defect (aha).[From the poem of(Ibn al-Rumi) (d. 896), a, 759]
By the way SNAKY why does your jpeg image say "Italian man". Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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based off the original arab's terminology for skin color specifically. books you can reference are
1.fiqh al-lughta by mansur athalabi (961-1038 C.E.) 2.jawaahir uqood wa mueen qudaa wa al-mauq'een wa shuhud by muhammad bin ahmad bin ali bin abdulkhaliq asuyooti(1410-1475 C.E.)
These are the two most authoritative books on the understanding of terminology used amongst the arabs of the past.
This is really interesting because the only one I've heard about are from Tariq Berry Ibn Manzur's Lisaan al Arab. I didn't know Thalabi and Suyuti had books that tlak specifically about this. So I will definitely be looking into this.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
^ Because the lying dummy thinks people are dumber than her to believe the 'golden' or 'jasper' complexion or glow of ancient Egyptians when hit by the sun is the same as a tanned Italian guy! LMAOPosts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by ausar: The hierarchy in Upper Egypt goes as follows: asraf, Arabs, Copts and Fellahin. Some of the asraf are bedouin tribes in Upper Egypt but many are probably fellahin that embellished their lineage for a fake pedigree.
Its true that in today's Upper Egypt your lineage is not that much of a factor but most represenatives from Upper Egypt tend to come from the Asraf or arab tribes in Upper Egypt. The Copts are well represented because of their large wealth. However, they still donot have as much political clout as the ashraf.
The following hierarchy is only true as far as Middle and Upper Egypt. Once to get to Qena or Aswan it becames the area that has been heavily controled by the Ja'afra or Ababda groups. Both claim they are bedouin straight from Saudi Arabia but most are either Beja or Nubian groups that mixed with bedouin Arabs and became Arabized.
Arab infiltraition of Arab and Nubian groups was easy because most inheiritance of power amongst the two was matrilineal. This meant the male children of Nubian or Beja women were prime canidates for clan rulership.
The Ababda are supposed to be largely Huwaytat who live mainly between Tihama and Sinai and have other Arab tribal groups. Ababda don't look much different then many Huweitat i don't know that much about the people of Jaafra.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by alurubenson: ausar . do u know where I can find any info on them being nubian because one of the guys said that the tribe is from the ashraf.
There are many African tribes who claim Ashraf upon being Arabized. It's best to take such claims with a grain of sand unless you choose Dana and Wesley Muhammad's theory that they actually represent Quraysh/Muhammad's descendants. Black peoples may be indigenous to Arabia but that doesn't mean all Arab invaders of Africa were black.
Actually I don't know much about the Ashraf. We can not tell the extent to which a tribe more Beja or Arab in Sudan as the Arabs have mixed with Ottomans and their women and are much lighter than the peoples coming from Arabia who were basically the color of tar and lava - according them.
Many clans in Arabia still look identical to Beja in Jizan and Hijaz and other places. In fact Hadorab or Hadharme Beja for example can not have been much different then the Hadoram peoples they claim descent from and live in Suakin and Hadramaut. Similarly Hada'ndowa or the Hada and Erigat and Bideyat have definitely pre-Islamic Arabian connections; they then mixed with Arabs of the Islamic period equally "khadar" or near black in appearance.
It would be great to get some photos of the pure Arab Hudhail mentioned by Doughty in Hijaz and other tribes that are still described as gracile and having "black" and "shining" skins in Hijaz and Oman.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by alurubenson: ausar . do u know where I can find any info on them being nubian because one of the guys said that the tribe is from the ashraf.
There are many African tribes who claim Ashraf upon being Arabized. It's best to take such claims with a grain of sand unless you choose Dana and Wesley Muhammad's theory that they actually represent Quraysh/Muhammad's descendants. Black peoples may be indigenous to Arabia but that doesn't mean all Arab invaders of Africa were black.
Arabized invaders were not all black. There were Syrians and Kurds and other peoples.
The Arabs though were, and are a black people The Arabs that invaded Egypt are a people from Arabia - not Syria - and are described in early sources as black . They are black people that invaded Syria and North Africa. For example, in almost all ancient Chinese sources the Arabs are called blacks are near black in color. The Arabs that invaded Egypt were mainly dark brown near black people that is why Ibn Manzour in his Arab dictionary said that most Arabs are dark brown and have kinky hair and call themselves "the blacks".
Arabs and blacks were the same people. Mahra, Shahra coming from the tribes of Qahtan (still claiming african descent), Azd, the north Arabian tribes Hawazin and Sulaym tribes or Qays, Banu Kinanah (from which comes the name Canaanite)s all of them black and near black in color.
Their best representatives in the Middle East are the near black to black peoples of Hijaz, Hadramaut, Wadi Beish and the Wadi Dawasir once called (Falaj/Peleg el Afladj) in south central Arabia, the black Arab tribes of Iraq (from Hawazin - Muntafiq Uqayl Ka'b etc.) now complaining that they are called "abid" in Iraq.
There are no references to tribes of Arabs being "white" or fair in color except for those that were immigrated north and mixed with Syrians. Some of these miexed Syrian bedouin have moved back into the Arabian peninsula.) Those tribes were those that were said several hundred years ago to "resemble slaves".
Jahiz makes the Zanj say if an Arab is "red" fair in color they belong to the Byzantines, Persians, Saqaliba (Slavs) and Khorasanis (Central Asians) other non-Arabs.
That is why the Qahtan leader were mentioned in Iqd el Farid as saying a fair- skinned Arab is "unthinkable" and "one of the 7 rare things of this world".
Numerous names of the peoples of Arabia are found in pre- Islamic Africa among the Cushitic-speakers Tuareg and other AFricans. Some of these names definitely date back to the 2nd millenium B.C. and the time of the Hyksos as I've mentioned before.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
Some of the soldiers in Amr Ibn Alas army were Armenians and Syrians. Most of the Arab soldiers that came with Amr ibn Alas were not allowed to own land or intermarry with the natives because of the Pact of Umar. This was not changed until the Abbasid caliph came into power.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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^ What exactly was the reason for such a prohibition??
By the way, this thread is a perfect example of how loose the 'term' Arab is or rather how it is perceived. To most folks especially Eurocentrics, 'Arab' means non-black which is when many sources especially old ones try to white-wash North Africa they use Arab as well as Berber populations to imply non-black. I have even read this in an old Britannica of mine on the entry on Sudan where it claims blacks only inhabit the southern region of the country whereas the central and northern region is predominantly Arab. Low and behold, right on the next page is shows a black-and-white photo of a large gathering of people in northern Sudan, and let's just say it showed a lot of black from the people and only a little white from the robes. LOL Ever since then, I learned to question what exactly entails 'Arab'.
Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
The reason why the prohibition existed was because the caliph did not want the Arabs invaders to identify or bond with the local people of the lands they conquered. The caliph felt this would create insurrection.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
The reason why the prohibition existed was because the caliph did not want the Arabs invaders to identify or bond with the local people of the lands they conquered. The caliph felt this would create an insurrection.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
The reason why the prohibition existed was because the caliph did not want the Arabs invaders to identify or bond with the local people of the lands they conquered. The caliph felt this would create an insurrection.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by ausar: Some of the soldiers in Amr Ibn Alas army were Armenians and Syrians. Most of the Arab soldiers that came with Amr ibn Alas were not allowed to own land or intermarry with the natives because of the Pact of Umar. This was not changed until the Abbasid caliph came into power.
I didn't know Armenians and other "red people" were already in the Arab armies in this period. That would explain certain things - especially if they were also with Ubada bin Samit.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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VOLUME III • 2009: Black Arab as a Figure of Memory Resumes
The Black Arab in South-Slavic Epic Songs: Merely a Power-crazed Compulsive Lecher?
Gabriella Schubert
(Jena)
The Black Arab is a figure frequently represented in the heroic songs of the South Slavs. He is an antihero, an evil Muslim opponent of the Christian hero, primarily of the ideal hero Marko Kraljević, and also of the ill but honourable Dojčin (Bolen Dojčin, Bolan Dojčin). His most prominent marker is that he is a sexual monster and rapist. He requires a pretty girl for every night and even presumes to appear before the Sultan demanding that he bestow his daughter in marriage to him. Is the Black Arab only a power-crazed compulsive lecher? This question is investigated more closely on the basis of the heroic song ‘Marko Kraljević and the Arab’ (Marko Kraljević i Arapin), which is published in the second volume of the collection of Serbian songs by Vuk Karadžić under No. 65. A comparative analysis shows the historical, mythical and legendary roots of the figure of the Black Arab and of the epic song dealing with Marko Kraljević and the Black Arab. In some respects it follows the fairy-tale of the Dragon-Slayer, in others the legend of St. George. The Black Arab is a substitution for the Dragon. He represents the principles of earthly power and sexual desire. His unusual physical strength breeds fear. Marko Kraljević, on the other hand, substitutes for St. George. He is shaped in the same way as St. George: He fights for Good against Bad in this world, i.e. the violation and degradation of the Sultan’s daughter by the Black Arab. His fight bears a Christian meaning.
posted
If you are curious of my reference to Armenian and Syrians check the book Fatimid Armenians by Seta B. Dadoyan. I believe there is from reference to them also by the Coptic historian John, Bishop of Nikiou.
I find that people well versed in African history are largely ignorant of Medieval Egypt. The indigenous African base in Egypt was still there in probably a greater pressence than today. We have Arab historians that write about African type customs that continued to the modern area in the rural country side.
I believe there is a Coptic story about how local Egyptians were able to pose as bedouin. The Egyptians posed as bedouins to evade any capture and also reclaim holy relics which had been confiscated. Little tibits like this you have to dig deep into Coptic and Arabic sources which not privy to people who donot write or read Arabic.
Any comments Dana?
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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"You insulted (the family of the Prophet) because of their blackness (bi-l-sawad), while there are still deep black, pure-blooded Arabs. However, you are white – the Romans (Byzantines) have embellished your faces with their color. The color of the family of Hashim was not a bodily defect (aha).[From the poem of(Ibn al-Rumi) (d. 896), a, 759]
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
Ibn Manzur wrote essentially the same as Dhahabi in his Lisaan al Arab: 'The Arabs don’t say a man is white [or: “white man,” rajul abya∙] due to a white complexion. Rather, whiteness [al-abyad with them means an external appearance that is free from blemish;
dana, you contradict yourself with the above two statements, think, 1 and 1 are not equaling 2
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: By the way why does your jpeg image say "Italian man". [/qb]
because he's an Italian man from lifeinitaly.com
Posts: 42938 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
^ And Italians have absolutely NOTHING to do with what we are talking about. Lyinass productions sh*t.
quote:Originally posted by ausar: If you are curious of my reference to Armenian and Syrians check the book Fatimid Armenians by Seta B. Dadoyan. I believe there is from reference to them also by the Coptic historian John, Bishop of Nikiou.
I find that people well versed in African history are largely ignorant of Medieval Egypt. The indigenous African base in Egypt was still there in probably a greater pressence than today. We have Arab historians that write about African type customs that continued to the modern area in the rural country side.
I believe there is a Coptic story about how local Egyptians were able to pose as bedouin. The Egyptians posed as bedouins to evade any capture and also reclaim holy relics which had been confiscated. Little tibits like this you have to dig deep into Coptic and Arabic sources which not privy to people who donot write or read Arabic.
Any comments Dana?
Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by alurubenson: ausar . do u know where I can find any info on them being nubian because one of the guys said that the tribe is from the ashraf.
There are many African tribes who claim Ashraf upon being Arabized. It's best to take such claims with a grain of sand unless you choose Dana and Wesley Muhammad's theory that they actually represent Quraysh/Muhammad's descendants. Black peoples may be indigenous to Arabia but that doesn't mean all Arab invaders of Africa were black.
Arabized invaders were not all black. There were Syrians and Kurds and other peoples.
The Arabs though were, and are a black people The Arabs that invaded Egypt are a people from Arabia - not Syria - and are described in early sources as black . They are black people that invaded Syria and North Africa. For example, in almost all ancient Chinese sources the Arabs are called blacks are near black in color. The Arabs that invaded Egypt were mainly dark brown near black people that is why Ibn Manzour in his Arab dictionary said that most Arabs are dark brown and have kinky hair and call themselves "the blacks".
Arabs and blacks were the same people. Mahra, Shahra coming from the tribes of Qahtan (still claiming african descent), Azd, the north Arabian tribes Hawazin and Sulaym tribes or Qays, Banu Kinanah (from which comes the name Canaanite)s all of them black and near black in color.
Their best representatives in the Middle East are the near black to black peoples of Hijaz, Hadramaut, Wadi Beish and the Wadi Dawasir once called (Falaj/Peleg el Afladj) in south central Arabia, the black Arab tribes of Iraq (from Hawazin - Muntafiq Uqayl Ka'b etc.) now complaining that they are called "abid" in Iraq.
There are no references to tribes of Arabs being "white" or fair in color except for those that were immigrated north and mixed with Syrians. Some of these miexed Syrian bedouin have moved back into the Arabian peninsula.) Those tribes were those that were said several hundred years ago to "resemble slaves".
Jahiz makes the Zanj say if an Arab is "red" fair in color they belong to the Byzantines, Persians, Saqaliba (Slavs) and Khorasanis (Central Asians) other non-Arabs.
That is why the Qahtan leader were mentioned in Iqd el Farid as saying a fair- skinned Arab is "unthinkable" and "one of the 7 rare things of this world".
Numerous names of the peoples of Arabia are found in pre- Islamic Africa among the Cushitic-speakers Tuareg and other AFricans. Some of these names definitely date back to the 2nd millenium B.C. and the time of the Hyksos as I've mentioned before.
I think the best representative of the original arab stuck would be some of the people you find among the people of the khaleej and hijaz and on the islands in the Persian gulf. However you have to be careful with this because Axum ruled over southern Arabia for awhile and some of their decedents are still there, especially in Yemen.
Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011
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posted
^^ The problem however is that now the light-skinned elite like the Saudis and the Yemeni elitists then dismiss all black natives of Arabia as being "Ethiopians" regardless of actual indigenous ancestry.
Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
What you mean just ruled southern arabia for a while they had it for a 1000 years. Hijaz is a very abbysinian blood area as well as Abha.
Ethiopia: the era of the princes: the challenge of Islam and the re-unification of the Christian empire, 1769-1855.
Abir Mordechai explains how that 80% of saudi and yemeni have ethiopian blood read it in the book above. He uses other arab scholars who have professed the same as well.
Its not uncommon to see that both of those people on both sides of the red sea have the same customs from the zar,zemzem,frankincense,myhrr,hymns,etc..
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