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Author Topic: The civilizations of Africa: a history to 1800
AGÜEYBANÁ II (Mind718)
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For all those who keep talking about civilizations, and when referring to Africa use terms such as tribes or tribal please read...

The civilizations of Africa: a history to 1800 By Christopher Ehret

^^Click.


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AGÜEYBANÁ II (Mind718)
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Keywords; "Tribes vs Tribal", "Primitive", "Race"...

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AGÜEYBANÁ II (Mind718)
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Djehuti
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^ The irony is that most peoples in Africa did not even use tribal divisions at least by Roman times and consisted of larger political states, yet Europe itself remained largely tribal post-Roman era by the Middle Ages. Max Dashu and other scholars point out this hipocrisy in that many of the customs Euros label as "primitive" were practiced by their ancestors, such as tribalism, tribal dances, drums, and shamanism. Even customs like head-hunting and even cannibalism was practiced by littoral Europeans, but you NEVER hear 'Western' historians mention this!

By the way Graham Connah is another excellent scholar with some good books:

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AGÜEYBANÁ II (Mind718)
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^^Good points.
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zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova
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quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ The irony is that most peoples in Africa did not even use tribal divisions at least by Roman times and consisted of larger political states, yet Europe itself remained largely tribal post-Roman era by the Middle Ages. Max Dashu and other scholars point out this hipocrisy in that many of the customs Euros label as "primitive" were practiced by their ancestors, such as tribalism, tribal dances, drums, and shamanism. Even customs like head-hunting and even cannibalism was practiced by littoral Europeans, but you NEVER hear 'Western' historians mention this!

By the way Graham Connah is another excellent scholar with some good books:

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^^WHat writings by Dashu point put the double-standards?
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Tyrannohotep
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Just bought this book on Amazon.com and am looking forward to reading it!
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AGÜEYBANÁ II (Mind718)
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^Cool, after you read the book you can always post interesting excerpts from therein if possible, thanks. Read a few pages from the book few years back, my intention here is to get the idea of when looking towards or talking about Africa to stop with terms like tribes and tribal.
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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
Even customs like head-hunting and even cannibalism was practiced by littoral Europeans

which ones?
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zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova
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Djehuti
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^ There you have it, Lyinass! [Big Grin]

quote:
Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova:

^^What writings by Dashu point put the double-standards?

Dashu was published several articles in various anthropology journals in her studies of European history and folk traditions where she discussed this. I can't remember any specific ones but I do know she is in the process of writing a book called 'Secret History of the Witches' revealing the shamanic origins of European witchcraft and she definitely delves into the history of Europe and how its tribal origins are obfuscated by a biased focus on so-called 'Classical' history of the Roman conquerors and colonizers. She definitely isn't the only scholar though. There are various other scholars of European history who would like to get away from the traditional 'Classicism' or focus on Rome and Greece. Barry Cunliffe, for example is a leading scholar on Celtic studies and he too laments over the fact that most Euro-historians gloss over the Celts and other Roman conquered peoples as merely "barbarians" even though these peoples are their very ancestors!
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-Just Call Me Jari-
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Just finished reading what Mind posted. My conclusion is that Eurocentrism is so hardwired into academia that one must examine everything and put it into context. Great read BTW.

quote:
There are various other scholars of European history who would like to get away from the traditional 'Classicism' or focus on Rome and Greece. Barry Cunliffe, for example is a leading scholar on Celtic studies and he too laments over the fact that most Euro-historians gloss over the Celts and other Roman conquered peoples as merely "barbarians" even though these peoples are their very ancestors!
The fact is that Europeans and Eurocentrism is grounded in the Classic Greco-Roman thought. Don't forget the modern West is a product of the enlightenment which originally stemmed from the Renaissance. Even the Gothic and Romanesque periods in Europe built off of Roman innovation.

The fact is that without the Greeks and Romans Nordic and Western European culture and engineering would be very similar to African and Asians. I see Eurocentrics harp on Skara Brea for points in a debate but you will never see Europeans putting up Skara Brea in their Eurocentric videos nor will you ever see a building in London or Dublin modeled after Skara Brea or "Celtic" Architecture.

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Djehuti
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^ You mean Skara Brae of northern Scotland. Actually Skara Brae is a Neolithic culture that *pre-dates* any Celtic culture which is presumed to have originated in the Danube during the Bronze Age. Suffice to say, even neolithic culture is not indigenous to Europe but introduced there from the so-called 'Near East' and Africa.

But yeah, it is a very ironic point that Dashu and others have pointed out and that is Eurocentrism has been a detriment to European history itself in that only a small fraction of European culture and history is told and that of course being the imperial conquerors and colonizers of Rome. The histories of the indigenous tribal peoples of the rest of Europe get subsumed or are airbrushed aside in favor of the "glorious" oppressors. It's no surprise that this same cycle is then repeated on a global scale with world history itself focused on the 'Western' powers of Europe dominating and colonizing the indigenous peoples in other areas of the world.

Of course Eurocentrism's sickest and most twisted end result is to claim non-European cultures and histories as part of a mythical "Caca-soid" race. Which is why cultures from Mesopotamia to the Nile Valley are glorified but in the image of the 'West'! [Embarrassed]

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Whatbox
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Didn't read the quotes yet (by AGÜEYBANÁ), but sympathize with the people interested in the Witch stuff and the Celt stuff.

quote:
Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
The fact is that Europeans and Eurocentrism is grounded in the Classic Greco-Roman thought. Don't forget the modern West is a product of the enlightenment which originally stemmed from the Renaissance. Even the Gothic and Romanesque periods in Europe built off of Roman innovation.

The fact is that without the Greeks and Romans Nordic and Western European culture and engineering would be very similar to African and Asians.

Um, actually Africa certainly has Roman like stuff (as I thought you in the past noted), it spread there due to the fact the whole Mediterranean-Nile-West Asian region in general was exchanging influences with one another, and diffused these elsewhere.
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Tyrannohotep
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Got this in the mail tonight. It's a lot larger than I expected, so it may take me a while to get through it, but it looks like it'll be an awesome overview of pre-colonial African history and prehistory.
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Perahu
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Ehret is an Afrocentrist who believes Afro-Asiatic originated in Africa, what a joke!

Even though it is a Nostratic language family!

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Djehuti
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^ [Eek!] ROTFL [Big Grin]

The only joke is YOU! Christopher Ehret is a WHITE linguistics scholar and anthropologist from America. Just because he like SO MANY others acknowledge Afroasiatic's roots in Africa, you now call him an "Afrocentrist"?! LOL I suppose the WHITE linguist Carleton Hodge is also Afrocentrist for coming to the same conclusion, or European scholar Igor M. Diakonoff! Afroasiatic or rather Afrasian or Afrisian's origins in the African continent is a FACT pure and simple! What is truly the joke is your 'Nostratic' theory which was debunked by the very scholars I cited and more!!

LOL You are such a pathetic and idiotic loser! [Big Grin]

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-Just Call Me Jari-
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"Afrocentrist" is a phrase they use to label anyone who does'nt parrot their Debunked racialist ideology..
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the lioness is a guy IRL
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quote:
Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
"Afrocentrist" is a phrase they use to label anyone who does'nt parrot their Debunked racialist ideology..

Not debunked. Races are real. Read the following work -

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Race: The Reality of Human Differences

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race:_The_Reality_of_Human_Difference

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Djehuti
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^ Hey idiot. Of course human differences exist! It's called bio-diversity. There are a variety of differences phenotypically and genetically between populations and more so individuals however such differences do NOT add up or correspond to racial groups, nitwit!
quote:
Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:

"Afrocentrist" is a phrase they use to label anyone who doesn't parrot their Debunked racialist ideology..

Well if that's the case then much of Western Academia would be 'Afrocentric' for that matter! LOL
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zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova
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^^lol, here is some more "Afrocentric" thought..

[QUOTE:]

"The evidence also points to linkages to
other northeast African peoples, not
coincidentally approximating the modern
range of languages closely related to
Egyptian in the Afro-Asiatic group
(formerly called Hamito-Semetic). These
linguistic similarities place ancient
Egyptian in a close relationship with
languages spoken today as far west as
Chad, and as far south as Somalia.
Archaeological evidence also strongly
supports an African origin. A widespread
northeastern African cultural assemblage,
including distinctive multiple barbed
harpoons and pottery decorated with
dotted wavy line patterns, appears during
the early Neolithic (also known as the
Aqualithic, a reference to the mild
climate of the Sahara at this time).
Saharan and Sudanese rock art from this
time resembles early Egyptian
iconography. Strong connections
between Nubian (Sudanese) and
Egyptian material culture continue in
later Neolithic Badarian culture of Upper
Egypt. Similarities include black-topped
wares, vessels with characteristic
ripple-burnished surfaces, a special
tulip-shaped vessel with incised and
white-filled decoration, palettes, and
harpoons...

Other ancient Egyptian practices show
strong similarities to modern African
cultures including divine kingship, the
use of headrests, body art, circumcision,
and male coming-of-age rituals, all
suggesting an African substratum or
foundation for Egyptian civilization.."


-- Source: Donald Redford (2001) The
Oxford encyclopedia of ancient Egypt,
Volume 3. Oxford University Press. p.28

And how 'bout them Badarians...

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-Just Call Me Jari-
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I keep posting this to your dumbass but as with everything you cant retaind anything that does not fit your agenda..

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7602273

Region does not mean "race"--reality versus convention in forensic anthropology.
-C. Loring Brace...

quote:
Originally posted by cassiterides:
quote:
Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
"Afrocentrist" is a phrase they use to label anyone who does'nt parrot their Debunked racialist ideology..

Not debunked. Races are real. Read the following work -

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Race: The Reality of Human Differences

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race:_The_Reality_of_Human_Difference


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zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova
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A further quote from your Cl Brace reference Jari:

"Norman Sauer has posed the rhetorical question: if races do not exist, how come forensic anthropologists are so good at identifying them? The simple answer is that, as members of the society that poses the question, they are inculcated into the social conventions that determine the expected answer. They should also be aware of the biological inaccuracies contained in that "politically correct" answer. Skeletal analysis provides no direct assessment of skin color, but it does allow an accurate estimate of original geographical origins."

--CL BRace.

^^OK, and based on the skeletal info Brace talks about
we have this data:

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There you go. The skeletons have it..

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Byron Bumper
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BEEP BEEP SCREECH KISS CUSS

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BEEP BEEP SCREECH KISS CUSS

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