An interesting comment on Egyptian monotheism. It was introduced by Akhenaten of the 19th Dynasty but was quickly erased. Those who erased the concept of monotheism were probably right seeing how the one-God(Yaweh) of the desert Hebrews was portrayed and is still portrayed as a cruel and whimsical dictator. The Christians came up with the concept of a people-friendly,and benevolent dictator but the damage was already done. The Muslim plagiarists who came after preferred the idea of the cruel dictator God(Allah) just to keep the wayward in line.
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Better to democratise the Heavens with multitudes of gods each with his/her own bailiwick. Makes things much more interesting--as with the Orishas of the Yoruba religion.
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The author of the piece glosses over the idea that monotheism could only have come from a long-standing civilisation with earthly kings--pharaohs, not straggling desert trekkers.
The all-important monotheistic concepts of the after-life and justice(Ma'at) were absorbed by the derived monotheistic religions of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.
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For the re-consecration of Great Pyramid of Tenochtitlan in 1487, the Aztecs reported that they sacrificed about 80,400 prisoners over the course of four days, though there were probably far fewer sacrifices. According to Ross Hassig, author of Aztec Warfare, "between 10,000 and 80,400 persons" were sacrificed in the ceremony.[40] The higher estimate would average 14 sacrifices per minute during the four-day consecration. (As a comparison, the Auschwitz concentration camp, working 24 hours a day with modern technology, approached but did not equal this pace: it executed about 19,200 a day at its peak.) Four tables were arranged at the top so that the victims could be jettisoned down the sides of the temple.[41] Nonetheless, according to Codex Telleriano-Remensis, old Aztecs who talked with the missionaries told about a much lower figure for the reconsecration of the temple, approximately 4,000 victims in total. Michael Harner, in his 1977 article The Enigma of Aztec Sacrifice, estimates the number of persons sacrificed in central Mexico in the 15th century as high as 250,000 per year. Fernando de Alva Cortés Ixtlilxochitl, a Mexica descendant and the author of Codex Ixtlilxochitl, estimated that one in five children of the Mexica subjects was killed annually. Victor Davis Hanson argues that a claim by Don Carlos Zumárraga of 20,000 per annum is "more plausible."[42] Other scholars believe that, since the Aztecs often tried to intimidate their enemies, it is more likely that they could have inflated the number as a propaganda tool.[43] The same can be said for Bernal Díaz's inflated calculations when, in a state of visual shock, he grossly miscalculated the number of skulls at one of the seven Tenochtitlan tzompantlis. The counter argument is that both the Aztecs and Diaz were very precise in the recording of the many other details of Aztec life, and inflation or propaganda would be unlikely. According the Florentine Codex, fifty years before the conquest the Aztecs burnt the skulls of the former tzompantli. Mexican archeologist Eduardo Matos Moctezuma has unearthed and studied some tzompantlis.[44] Sacrifices were made on specific days. Sahagún, Juan Bautista de Pomar and Motolinía report that the Aztecs had eighteen festivities each year, one for each Aztec month. They clearly state that in those festivities sacrifices were made. Each god required a different kind of victim: young women were drowned for Xilonen; children were sacrificed to Tláloc; Nahuatl-speaking prisoners to Huitzilopochtli, and a single nahua would volunteer for Tezcatlipoca. The Ramírez Codex states that for the annual festivity of Huitzilopochtli more than sixty prisoners were sacrificed in the main temple, and prisoners were sacrificed in other large Aztec cities as well. Not all sacrifices were made at the Tenochtitlan temples; a few were made at "Cerro del Peñón", an islet of the Texcoco lake. According to an Aztec source, in the month of Tlacaxipehualiztli (from February 22 to March 13), thirty-four captives were sacrificed in the gladiatorial sacrifice to Xipe Totec. More victims would be sacrificed to Huitzilopochtli in the month Panquetzaliztli (from 9 November to 28 November) according to the Ramírez Codex. This would mean a figure as low as 300 to 600 victims a year. There is little agreement on the actual figure due to the scarcity of archeological evidence. Every Aztec warrior would have to provide at least one prisoner for sacrifice. All the male population was trained to be warriors, but only the few who succeeded in providing captives could became full-time members of the warrior elite. Those who could not would become macehualli, workers. Accounts also state that several young warriors could unite to capture a single prisoner, which suggests that capturing prisoners for sacrifice was challenging. There is still much debate as to what social groups constituted the usual victims of these sacrifices. It is often assumed that all victims were 'disposable' commoners or foreigners. However, slaves - a major source of victims - were not a permanent class but rather persons from any level of Aztec society who had fallen into debt or committed some crime (see Duran, Book of the Gods and Rites, 131, 260). Likewise, most of the earliest accounts talk of prisoners of war of diverse social status, and concur that virtually all child sacrifices were locals of noble lineage, offered by their own parents (compare Cortes, Letters 105 with Motolinia, History of the Indies 118-119 and Duran, Book of the Gods, 223, 242). Likewise, it is doubtful if many victims came from far afield. In 1454, the Aztec government forbade the slaying of captives from distant lands at the capital's temples (Duran, The Aztecs: History of the Indes, 141). Duran's informants told him that sacrifices were consequently 'nearly always... friends of the [Royal] House'- meaning warriors from allied states (Duran, The Aztecs: History of the Indies, 141, 198). This probably meant that the average Aztec warrior stood as much chance of procuring a victim as he did of himself becoming one - as the Aztec Emperor reportedly told all captives about to be sacrificed: 'today for you, tomorrow for me' (Tezozomoc
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quote:Originally posted by lamin: You must have some kind of dyslexic brain. I mean what is the point of this?
polytheists had their violent dictators too, including some ancient Egyptian also. And what about Mao?
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I have no idea if the Aztec excesses are they are portrayed by European authors. After all, the Spaniards made off with the huge territory now called Mexico after slaughtering or raping most of the indigenes--then a long bout of chattel slavery.
The European authors had to say that what went before their rapine and enslavements were worse.
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^^^well take up polytheism then. The Spainiards were brutal and killed people but it is also estimated that millions died due to exposure to pathogens Europeans were carrying but had become immune to
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What about Mao? LOL. Westerners tend to naively believe in their own propaganda. You are just confirming that hypothesis re Mao.
Mao is a revered personage in China. He his armies rescued China from Western predations. First, the Western imperialists thought they could sneak in by drugging the Chinese with opium but they failed. Mao didn't bother with detox methods. He was more direct.
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^ LOL Obviously you offended lyinass's European sensibilities. She apparently doesn't know that there are still people in Europe and in the Americas of European descent who have kept their polytheistic religions.
quote:Originally posted by the silly lyinass: polytheists had their violent dictators too, including some ancient Egyptian also. And what about Mao?
Dictatorship has NOTHING to do with religious belief whether in one god or many gods. Sure a dictator might use religion or do away with it altogether as in communist and secular regimes.
By the way, which ancient Egyptian was a violent dictator??
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Djehuti, piece of shit, Thutmose comes to mind.
Many of these Pharoahs were imperialist dictators because the art and acrhitecture was great we tend to forget that. Some were nicer than others.
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^ And again, Lyinass the source of most piles of sh*t in this forum please elaborate how these pharaohs were dictators. Yes Thutmose was an imperialist, but imperialism in it of itself does NOT mean dictatorial oppression, especially if the conquered peoples still had freedom.
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Akhenaton was not monotheist. Aten included many other gods and deities such as Maat. The Aten god seems to be in the image of Amun-Ra (and other creator deity of ancient Kemet). Just a different cult with different name with different people leading it. Personally, I think the whole issue was political or the ambition (megalomania) of one individual.
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quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate: Akhenaton was not monotheist. Aten included many other gods and deities such as Maat. The Aten god seems to be in the image of Amun-Ra (and other creator deity of ancient Kemet). Just a different cult with different name with different people leading it. Personally, I think the whole issue was political or the ambition (megalomania) of one individual.
In the beginning Akhenaton permitted the worship of other Gods with Aten as supreme. (henotheism)
But later on nine years into his reign the dictator monarch forbade worship of all other dieties. The prohibition of his polic state even extended into people's private homes.
He made the mistake of going to far and forcing what had become full blown monotheism on people. Eventually there was a harsh backlash.
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quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate: Akhenaton was not monotheist. Aten included many other gods and deities such as Maat. The Aten god seems to be in the image of Amun-Ra (and other creator deity of ancient Kemet). Just a different cult with different name with different people leading it. Personally, I think the whole issue was political or the ambition (megalomania) of one individual.
In the beginning Akhenaton permitted the worship of other Gods with Aten as supreme. (henotheism)
But later on nine years into his reign the dictator monarch forbade worship of all other dieties. The prohibition of his polic state even extended into people's private homes.
Not true. Although, henotheism is a good approximate description of Ancient Egyptian/African and many religions around the world including the Aten cult.
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The Egyptian-Nigerian systems of one invisible gold name Neberdjer/Pa Neter-Olodumare-Mawu and many Spirits/Forces/Gods/Godesses/Lwa are better .Its is a democratic religion, different people in society with different character and beleif can choose their favorite Spirits/Gods .In that system there is no need for religious repression because all the spirits represent the invisible God or part of the invisible God . I remember The great spiritualist Bobby Hemmitt saying in youtube there is no monotheitic religion.It doesnt work.You need the principle of opposite and the principle of gender in your religion. Christianity is not a monotheistic religion like its Egyptian mother Christianity have a trinity/three of Gods God, Holy Spirit, Jesus That come from the Kamite Ausar, Aset, Heru. Judaisme is not a monotheist religion.The Jewish Gods are Aton/Adonai, Elohim(the Gods),El/Saturn, Sin(moon god,Sinai,Sinagogue),Mammon,Moloch,Chiun,The cabala sephirah Gods,The Talmud Gods etc.Islam is not a monotheit religion.The Moslem covertly worship 100 hundred gods hidden in the so call 100 names of Allah.Islam worship Gin/spirits.Some branch of Islam worship martyr caliph and great caliph .They also worship Fatima .Monotheism is a myth.Mono doesnt work. The religious fundamentalism of today zionism,Islamist Jihad, Catholic crusade,started with Pharaoh Akhenaton .According to Sigmund Freud,Moustafa Gadalla, Ahmed Osman,Michael Tsarion and Ralph Ellis Akhenaton is the historical Moses.According to Gadalla the two High Priest of Akhenaton have the same names with the High Priest of Moses.Both Moses and Akhenaton had Levite priesthood .One of the oldest Jewish city in the world is the city of Malawi/Malevi the city of the Levite in Egypt .The original Jew/Hebrew were the Atonist and Levite follower of Akhenaton .Akhenaton and the Atonist were exiled from Egypt(the real exodus) because of their fanatical and fundamentalist way.Akhenaton try to impose his religion by force on all the Egyptian. How can the Aztec sacrifice 80,000 prisoners in 4 days .That sound to me like Euro Catholic propaganda .Unfortunately the immorality in some ancient religion is they practiced human sacrifice .The Olmec,Inca,Ashanti,Fon,Benin,Phoenician,Irish,Celt,Shang,Tibetan peoples practiced human sacrifices .The great Maatic Egyptian abandon that practice before the old kingdom .
quote:Originally posted by mena7: The Egyptian-Nigerian systems of one invisible gold name Neberdjer/Pa Neter-Olodumare-Mawu and many Spirits/Forces/Gods/Godesses/Lwa are better .Its is a democratic religion, different people in society with different character and beleif can choose their favorite Spirits/Gods .In that system there is no need for religious repression because all the spirits represent the invisible God or part of the invisible God .
About true. Although religion is transmitted from our ancestors and our parents, so the choice is not completely arbitrary.
quote: I remember The great spiritualist Bobby Hemmitt saying in youtube there is no monotheitic religion.It doesnt work.You need the principle of opposite and the principle of gender in your religion. Christianity is not a monotheistic religion
Not true at all. Christianity and all other Abrahamic religion (Islam, Judaism) are deeply monotheistic. Maybe the only monotheistic religions on earth. If you worship any other deity, you're considered pagans. If you don't follow their books writings you're considered heretics, infidels, gentiles. They are the religious version of fascist.
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Two examples of monolatrism developing from polytheism are the Aten cult in the reign of the Egyptian pharaoh Akhenaten, as well as the rise of Marduk from the tutelary of Babylon to the claim of universal supremacy. In Iran, Zoroastrianism, Ahura Mazda appears as a supreme and transcendental deity. Depending on the date of Zoroaster (usually placed in the early Iron Age), this may be one of the earliest documented instances of the emergence of monism in an Indo-European religion. In the ancient Near East, each city had a local patron deity, such as Shamash at Larsa or Sin at Ur. The first claims of global supremacy of a specific god date to the Late Bronze Age, with Akhenaten's Great Hymn to the Aten
Excerpts of the hymn-poem to Aten
From the middle of the text: How manifold it is, what thou hast made! They are hidden from the face (of man). O sole god, like whom there is no other! Thou didst create the world according to thy desire, Whilst thou wert alone: All men, cattle, and wild beasts, Whatever is on earth, going upon (its) feet, And what is on high, flying with its wings. The countries of Syria and Nubia, the land of Egypt, Thou settest every man in his place, Thou suppliest their necessities: Everyone has his food, and his time of life is reckoned. Their tongues are separate in speech, And their natures as well; Their skins are distinguished, As thou distinguishest the foreign peoples. Thou makest a Nile in the underworld, Thou bringest forth as thou desirest To maintain the people (of Egypt) According as thou madest them for thyself, The lord of all of them, wearying (himself) with them, The lord of every land, rising for them, The Aton of the day, great of majesty
Amenhotep IV initially introduced Atenism in Year 5 of his reign (1348/1346 BC), raising the Aten to the status of supreme god, after initially permitting the continued worship of the traditional gods. In Year 9 ( 1344/1342 BC ), Akhenaten strengthened the Atenist regime, declaring the Aten to be not merely the supreme god, but the only god, a universal deity, and forbidding worship of all others, including the veneration of idols, even privately in people's homes—an arena the Egyptian state had previously not touched in religious terms.Akhenaten staged the ritual regicide of the old supreme god Amun, and ordered the defacing of Amun's temples throughout Egypt, and of all the old gods. Akhenaten carried out a radical program of religious reform which, for a period of about twenty years Initially, Akhenaten presented Aten to the Egyptian people as a variant of the familiar supreme deity Amun-Ra (itself the result of an earlier rise to prominence of the cult of Amun, resulting in Amun becoming merged with the sun god Ra), in an attempt to put his ideas in a familiar religious context. However in the ninth year of his reign Akhenaten declared a more radical version of his new religion by declaring Aten not merely the supreme god, but the only god, and that he, Akhenaten, was the only intermediary between the Aten and his people.Key features of Atenism included a ban on idols and other images of the Aten
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness: Two examples of monolatrism developing from polytheism are the Aten cult in the reign of the Egyptian pharaoh Akhenaten, as well as the rise of Marduk from the tutelary of Babylon to the claim of universal supremacy. In Iran, Zoroastrianism, Ahura Mazda appears as a supreme and transcendental deity. Depending on the date of Zoroaster (usually placed in the early Iron Age), this may be one of the earliest documented instances of the emergence of monism in an Indo-European religion. In the ancient Near East, each city had a local patron deity, such as Shamash at Larsa or Sin at Ur. The first claims of global supremacy of a specific god date to the Late Bronze Age, with Akhenaten's Great Hymn to the Aten
Excerpts of the hymn-poem to Aten
From the middle of the text: How manifold it is, what thou hast made! They are hidden from the face (of man). O sole god, like whom there is no other! Thou didst create the world according to thy desire, Whilst thou wert alone: All men, cattle, and wild beasts, Whatever is on earth, going upon (its) feet, And what is on high, flying with its wings. The countries of Syria and Nubia, the land of Egypt, Thou settest every man in his place, Thou suppliest their necessities: Everyone has his food, and his time of life is reckoned. Their tongues are separate in speech, And their natures as well; Their skins are distinguished, As thou distinguishest the foreign peoples. Thou makest a Nile in the underworld, Thou bringest forth as thou desirest To maintain the people (of Egypt) According as thou madest them for thyself, The lord of all of them, wearying (himself) with them, The lord of every land, rising for them, The Aton of the day, great of majesty
The hymn-poem doesn't mean anything. Sole means he is unique among the deities.
Excerpt Hymn to Amun:
He rises upon his throne according to the desire of his heart. He gained dominion over all that is . . . . He continues the kingdom of eternity for ever, established as sole lord . His form shone in the First Time, and all living beings were struck dumb by his glory. He cackled aloud as the Great Cackler in the place where (?) he created himself, he being alone. He began to speak in the midst of the silence, and he opened all eyes, making them see. He began to cry aloud, when the earth was dumb; his roaring spread about, and there was no one else. He fashioned all things that are and brought them to life; he showed all people the way to go; their hearts came alive when they saw him. . . . Posts: 2981 | Registered: Jan 2012
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quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate: The hymn-poem doesn't mean anything. Sole means he is unique among the deities.
You are ignoring the fact that Ahkenhaten changed the religious policy of Atenism from the beginning of his reign when it was inclusive of other dieties to nine years to later prohibiting the worship of other deities, closing temples to other dieties thus monotheism
Also you overlook Babylonian/Zorastrian monotheism
quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate: The hymn-poem doesn't mean anything. Sole means he is unique among the deities.
You are ignoring the fact that Ahkenhaten changed the religious policy of Atenism from the beginning of his reign when it was inclusive of other dieties to nine years to later prohibiting the worship of other deities, closing temples to other dieties thus monotheism
Also you overlook Babylonian/Zorastrian monotheism
I have ignored everything that is just an opinion and debunked the only thing that resembled like a fact/proof: the hymn/sole thing.
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quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate: The hymn-poem doesn't mean anything. Sole means he is unique among the deities.
You are ignoring the fact that Ahkenhaten changed the religious policy of Atenism from the beginning of his reign when it was inclusive of other dieties to nine years to later prohibiting the worship of other deities, closing temples to other dieties thus monotheism
Also you overlook Babylonian/Zorastrian monotheism
I have ignored everything that is just an opinion and debunked the only thing that resembled like a fact/proof: the hymn/sole thing.
After about a year of leaving Thebes, Akhenaten prohibited the worship of Amun completely and ordered the closure of all the temples of Amun. He also stopped all the festivals and worship of Osiris, Isis, Ptah, Mut and all the other major and minor deities, claiming there to be just one god - Aten.
Do you deny this happened?
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^ I see your lyinass ignored my request to cite evidence of Thutmose or other pharaohs being cruel dictators. Oh well.
Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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An interesting comment on Egyptian monotheism. It was introduced by Akhenaten of the 19th Dynasty but was quickly erased. Those who erased the concept of monotheism were probably right seeing how the one-God(Yaweh) of the desert Hebrews was portrayed and is still portrayed as a cruel and whimsical dictator. The Christians came up with the concept of a people-friendly,and benevolent dictator but the damage was already done. The Muslim plagiarists who came after preferred the idea of the cruel dictator God(Allah) just to keep the wayward in line.
They were monotheist from day 1. Neter doesn't mean a god or a deity and neither does neteru. It just means a divine principle. Anyone thinking ancient Egypt is polytheist is because they are viewing it from a ignorant christian/jewish perspective. I would get the book The God's of the Egyptians by Wallis Budge, specifically read the section on the meaning of neteru and its mistranslation etc. I have all the volumes, but I believe the specific volume in question is Volume I.
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quote:Originally posted by lamin: What about Mao? LOL. Westerners tend to naively believe in their own propaganda. You are just confirming that hypothesis re Mao.
Mao is a revered personage in China. He his armies rescued China from Western predations. First, the Western imperialists thought they could sneak in by drugging the Chinese with opium but they failed. Mao didn't bother with detox methods. He was more direct.
He may be revered, but his "detox" methods as you put it, are responsible for between 20 million and 60 million deaths through brutal forced collectivization and industrialization measures, along with the killing and imprisonment or exile of those deemed political "enemies."
The "low" figure of "only" 20 million is not from rabid anti-communist conservatives but from official stats published by China's Communist Party.
refs:
^ Short, Philip (2001). Mao: A Life. Owl Books. p. 761. ISBN 978-0-8050-6638-8. ^ Akbar, Arifa (September 17, 2010). "Mao's Great Leap Forward 'killed 45 million in four years'". The Independent (London). Retrieved September 20, 2010. ^ Dikötter, Frank. Mao's Great Famine: The History of China's Most Devastating Catastrophe, 1958–62. Walker & Company, 2010. p. 333. ISBN 0-8027-7768-6 ^ a b "Source List and Detailed Death Tolls for the Twentieth Century Hemoclysm". Historical Atlas of the Twentieth Century. Retrieved August 23, 2008. ^ a b c Chang, Jung and Jon Halliday, Mao: The Unknown Story (2006), pp. 568, 579. ^ Mao a Reinterpretation by Lee Feigon, page 140 ^ For a full treatment of this idea see- Mobo Gao, "The Battle for China's Past", Pluto Press, London, 2008 ^ Jonathan Mirsky. Livelihood Issues. Literary Review ^ MacFarquhar, Roderick; Schoenhals, Michael (2006). Mao's Last Revolution. Harvard
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lioness said: After about a year of leaving Thebes, Akhenaten prohibited the worship of Amun completely and ordered the closure of all the temples of Amun. He also stopped all the festivals and worship of Osiris, Isis, Ptah, Mut and all the other major and minor deities, claiming there to be just one god - Aten.
Do you deny this happened?
^^He may have closed these temples as you say, but how does that make him a "cruel dictator" on the order of "role models" such as Hitler and Stalin with murderous body counts numbering in the tens of millions?
Furthermore Akhenaten's system was relatively mild compared to Msses Stalin and Hitler. Initially, Akhenaten presented Aten as a variant of the familiar supreme deity Amun-Re. In the first half of his reign he was tolerant. It took 9 years for him to shift to his "Aten supreme" model, and even then, the record shows no mass slaughter or imprisonment for those opposed. In fact it shows some co-existence. The erasure/defacement of other gods & existing temples shocked the old guard, but this is light years away from the mass murder and concentration camps of Stalin, Mao, or the genocide of Pol Pot, sometimes for such "crimes" as attending a church.
Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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Western propaganda lies about Mao. You just don't believe everything you read. China at the time of the revolution was an agricultural society and the collectivization was normal approach to the land issue.
If Mao killed all those people do you think he would be admired and revered in China? No. The Chinese are not dumb masochists.
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quote:Originally posted by lamin: Western propaganda lies about Mao. You just don't believe everything you read. China at the time of the revolution was an agricultural society and the collectivization was normal approach to the land issue.
If Mao killed all those people do you think he would be admired and revered in China? No. The Chinese are not dumb masochists.
Today many Russians revere Stalin
people love killers
Posts: 42939 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova:
lioness said: After about a year of leaving Thebes, Akhenaten prohibited the worship of Amun completely and ordered the closure of all the temples of Amun. He also stopped all the festivals and worship of Osiris, Isis, Ptah, Mut and all the other major and minor deities, claiming there to be just one god - Aten.
Do you deny this happened?
^^He may have closed these temples as you say, but how does that make him a "cruel dictator" on the order of "role models" such as Hitler and Stalin with murderous body counts numbering in the tens of millions?
Furthermore Akhenaten's system was relatively mild compared to Msses Stalin and Hitler. Initially, Akhenaten presented Aten as a variant of the familiar supreme deity Amun-Re. In the first half of his reign he was tolerant. It took 9 years for him to shift to his "Aten supreme" model, and even then, the record shows no mass slaughter or imprisonment for those opposed. In fact it shows some co-existence. The erasure/defacement of other gods & existing temples shocked the old guard, but this is light years away from the mass murder and concentration camps of Stalin, Mao, or the genocide of Pol Pot, sometimes for such "crimes" as attending a church. [/QB]
I am not comparing the Egyptian pharoahs to Hitler or Stalin.
I'm calling them dictators in the sense they had absolute power and that is what a dictator is. Technically they were "absolute monarchs".
"Absolute monarchs" are just as dicatatorial as dictators the difference is they come to power as part of familial lines. Egypt had a very long history, like anywhere some of it's kings were cruel.
In terms of numbers killing should be put into per capita perpective.
Tribe "A" killed 100 people
But Tribe "B'" killed only 50.
But Tribe A has 5000 people
and tribe "B" has 500
So tribe A's murder rate is 2%
Tribe B's murder rate is 10%
population size needs to be considered in an ethical judgement
_____________________________________________
Also technology is a factor.
In a low technology country a mad man can go on a killing spree and kill 5 people with a knife before they are stopped. The same man if given access to a machine gun could kill 50 or more. The man may have had the same intent in either case but was just limited by technology in the first example
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^^ Again I asked for specific evidence that Thutmose or any other pharaoh was a cruel dictator. You still have yet to provide any, lyinass!
quote:Originally posted by lamin: Western propaganda lies about Mao. You just don't believe everything you read. China at the time of the revolution was an agricultural society and the collectivization was normal approach to the land issue.
If Mao killed all those people do you think he would be admired and revered in China? No. The Chinese are not dumb masochists.
Are you serious lamin?!!
What Zarahan stated aren't "Western propaganda" and they certainly aren't "lies", since most of the info on these mass murders come from actual Chinese who fled the murder and brutality! Are you suggesting that Taiwan (the truly democratic nation formed by Chinese who escaped Mao) are liars??! Collectivism never works. If it does, what happened to China shortly thereafter? What happened to the Ukraine under Soviet agricultural collectivism? I take it you don't know any actual Chinese, do you?
As for his reverence. If your were brought up and brainwashed all your life that your political leader is so great he is like a deity (especially since religion is officially banned) would you not revere your leader as well??! Are you aware that the only actual REAL propaganda is the one the government regimes teach in Chinese schools. Of course those Chinese who really revere Mao is because they don't know about his wicked and terrible actions. As for those that do, obviously they can't complain or they'll end up as victims also!
Look at North Korea! The state is a basketcase of poverty and suffering where anyone suspected of harboring anti-sentiments against their 'great leader' would not only be put in a concentration camp but have his entire family for three generations put there as well! Under such circumstances these people would "revere" their leader as much as they can for fear of the consequences!
Seriously lamin, are you a communist fed off commy b.s.?? Because it sounds like you are! Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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