posted
In addition, these DNA match results in present day world regions might in part express population changes in Africa after the time of Ramesses III. In particular, DNA matches in present day populations of Southern Africa and the African Great Lakes might to some degree reflect genetic links with ancient populations (formerly living closer to New Kingdom Egypt) that have expanded southwards in the Nilotic and Bantu migrations of the past 3,000 years (see Figure 1)
posted
Ah, you beat me to it! I just saw this in my e-mail this morning and would have posted a thread about it if you hadn't done it first.
This is my favorite passage in that .pdf:
quote:Specifically, both of these ancient individuals inherited the alleles D21S11=35 and CSFIPO=7, which are found throughout Sub-Saharan Africa but are comparatively rare or absent in other regions of the world. These African related alleles are different from the African related alleles identified for the previously studied Amarna period mummies (D18S51=19 and D21S11=34).11 This provides independent evidence for African autosomal ancestry in two different pharaonic families of New Kingdom Egypt.
quote:Originally posted by Truthcentric: Ah, you beat me to it! I just saw this in my e-mail this morning and would have posted a thread about it if you hadn't done it first.
This is my favorite passage in that .pdf:
quote:Specifically, both of these ancient individuals inherited the alleles D21S11=35 and CSFIPO=7, which are found throughout Sub-Saharan Africa but are comparatively rare or absent in other regions of the world. These African related alleles are different from the African related alleles identified for the previously studied Amarna period mummies (D18S51=19 and D21S11=34).11 This provides independent evidence for African autosomal ancestry in two different pharaonic families of New Kingdom Egypt.
Yes, it's very interesting that it's different private alleles that matches black Africans ethnic groups this time around.
So, again and again, it shows that Ancient Egyptians were NOT like:
- Modern Egyptians (after multiple foreign invasions and occupation) - Modern North Africans/Berbers - Modern Europeans - Modern Asians - Modern Middle Easterners - etc
They mostly match current Bantu and West Africans.
Posts: 2981 | Registered: Jan 2012
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quote:Originally posted by Son of Ra: So it is finally confirmed...Ramesses was a E1b1a carrier...
Not necessarily. A person's Haplogroup doesn't correlate with his/her STR values per se.
But shouldn't it give us a little hint?
Look at it like this: Y chromosome haplogroups within a family get passed on, no matter how many females from other families, with starkly different genes, come in to produce children. 10.000 years later, male descendants of this Y chromosome carrying ancestor will still have that same y chromosomal haplogroup, while they may not even be automally related to this paternal ancestor anymore (due to all the foreign females contributions over the generations).
These results from DNA Tribes describe population histories that are independent of E1b1a, and so, they cannot confirm that Ramses III was E1b1a.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Son of Ra: So it is finally confirmed...Ramesses was a E1b1a carrier...
Not necessarily. A person's Haplogroup doesn't correlate with his/her STR values per se.
But shouldn't it give us a little hint?
See Swenet's post. Just to put some things in perspective, if you sample 100 African American Mens Y-Dna profiles you will get some 30 of them that come up with European R1b1b lineages.
These same 30 or so men could have just as much African Ancestry as the other 70 in a genome wide test.
Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
Although Swenet is right...but keep it context. We have to put things in perspective. Autosomal genes and y-Haplogroup may be unrelated CURRENTLY! But This period was BEFORE the age of intercontinental travel. Modern Aframs may fit this mold, however back then ...people were closely related to their neighbors ie they stayed put for thousand of years.
So there is a 99% chance BOTH, yes, BOTH families were E1b1a, or E1b1b or even hg-A.
As I said in a previous post Afrocentrics are batting 100.
That is why the idea of blonde AEians, or Europeans(R-M269) decended AEians is fugking retarded and delusional. Only a dumb fugk who has no idea about geography will entertain such a stupid idea.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
Quote: " that expanded southward with the Nilotc and Bantu expansion 3000ya"
translastion: as I said before, Bantus etc are from further North. They recently moved into the forest belt.
Notice also - they are keeping their fingers cross that there some middle eastern admixture. I can read these white people like an open book.
Quote; other ancestral components...SNPs...
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
BTW: irregardless of what DNATribes write, 8 STRs is more than enough. Some pop-Software only require at least 9. CODIS requires 13. Further testing will prove nada.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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Euros are probably crying Tears of Sadness since Ramses was one of the Socalled "Caucasoid" mummies.
And if he is an E1b1a African then just Imagine what Tut, and the Other Pharohs are.
What makes me Happy, Is not that Ramses is Close to West Africans, What makes me Happy is the People posting the Truth are Truthseeking Euros and White Americans. It shows slow and steady, THat Many whites are not afraid to see there Ethnicity not apart of Ancient Africa but support The TRUTH regardless where it takes us.
Mike and others have to give credit to these lberal Whites who FIGHT for the TRUTH of our past whether it is Black or White. Also Can't forget the Trailblazers who IS Black like Diop, Obenga, Kittles etc who stood in the Face of racism and smacked the ISH out of it and showed these scumbag racists who Know the Truth but kept it hidden That they can't stop what we about Black or White.
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Autosomes will never reveal sex chromosomes. 1-22 vs X&Y and never the twain shall meet.
E1b1a was predicted from Y-STRs not autosome STRs.
Y-STR haplotypes corelate to nrY haplogroups but aren't necessarily limited to any one hg.
Now what's going to be fascinating is the reaction on peoples blogs and youtube to this dnatribes study.
It will be interesting and entertaining to watch people that wanted Ramses to be European-affiliated go absolutely ballistic.
Looks like its time for me to discover who these courageous people are at dnatribes. Wooohoooo!
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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Euros are probably crying Tears of Sadness since Ramses was one of the Socalled "Caucasoid" mummies.
And if he is an E1b1a African then just Imagine what Tut, and the Other Pharohs are.
What makes me Happy, Is not that Ramses is Close to West Africans, What makes me Happy is the People posting the Truth are Truthseeking Euros and White Americans. It shows slow and steady, THat Many whites are not afraid to see there Ethnicity not apart of Ancient Africa but support The TRUTH regardless where it takes us.
Mike and others have to give credit to these lberal Whites who FIGHT for the TRUTH of our past whether it is Black or White. Also Can't forget the Trailblazers who IS Black like Diop, Obenga, Kittles etc who stood in the Face of racism and smacked the ISH out of it and showed these scumbag racists who Know the Truth but kept it hidden That they can't stop what we about Black or White.
Yes, this gives me hope too, King. I think of all the Euros, "white" Americans are now - unlike previously when Coon was in style, taking the lead in this regard or trying to be objective, while some continental European scholars are lagging behind hanging on to the "hamitic" myth. BTW - dnatribes already did the study on the Amarna pharaohs who also came out pretty much Bantu and Central African. This caused a furor among Euronuts on the internet as well.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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Now what's going to be fascinating is the reaction on peoples blogs and youtube to this dnatribes study.
It will be interesting and entertaining to watch people that wanted Ramses to be European-affiliated go absolutely ballistic.
Looks like its time for me to discover who these courageous people are at dnatribes. Wooohoooo!
The irony is that their beloved Ramses the Great was held up by the Euronuts and paraded as their Caucasoid par excellence via his 'red hair'. Even the whole red hair issue was debunked. Ramses hair hue is due to the presence of phaeolomelanin which is not uncommon among Africans especially northeast Africans and phaelomelanin tends to last longer than eumelanin i.e. black pigment of hair post-mummification.
We also have x-ray analysis of the Ramesside and other royals skulls as well as skeletal measurements. They all show African affinities. That his DNA is African is not at all surprising and was to be expected. Only the Euronuts are going nuts as they usually are. Most people knowledgeable in these matters are not regardless of whether they are white or not.
Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Dana. To clear things up. DNATribes did not perform the study on the mummies. This is a misconception many have. The study was done by ...of all people ...Hawass!!
What DNATribes did was what anyone of us can do, who has a computer. That is, take the published data by Hawass, JAMA report or the British Journal, plug that data(STR) into a pop-affl software and see what comes out. The advantage DNATribe has is ...they have a larger population affliliation database. Note, That same published data can be plugged into the FBI's CODIS database and the result will be African American or Black.
Keep that in mind. DNATribes is only the messenger.
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
quote:Originally posted by KING: Xyyman
Credit You for putting in work on these studies.
Euros are probably crying Tears of Sadness since Ramses was one of the Socalled "Caucasoid" mummies.
And if he is an E1b1a African then just Imagine what Tut, and the Other Pharohs are.
What makes me Happy, Is not that Ramses is Close to West Africans, What makes me Happy is the People posting the Truth are Truthseeking Euros and White Americans. It shows slow and steady, THat Many whites are not afraid to see there Ethnicity not apart of Ancient Africa but support The TRUTH regardless where it takes us.
Mike and others have to give credit to these lberal Whites who FIGHT for the TRUTH of our past whether it is Black or White. Also Can't forget the Trailblazers who IS Black like Diop, Obenga, Kittles etc who stood in the Face of racism and smacked the ISH out of it and showed these scumbag racists who Know the Truth but kept it hidden That they can't stop what we about Black or White.
Yes, this gives me hope too, King. I think of all the Euros, "white" Americans are now - unlike previously when Coon was in style, taking the lead in this regard or trying to be objective, while some continental European scholars are lagging behind hanging on to the "hamitic" myth. BTW - dnatribes already did the study on the Amarna pharaohs who also came out pretty much Bantu and Central African. This caused a furor among Euronuts on the internet as well.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
But to Kings point. yes, there are white people who are honest and really want to get at the bottom of things and the truth. Hats off to them, they have a uphill battle.
BTW - Liberal is probably not the right word. You don't know their political views. They may be just dedicated scientist trying understand human history and migration pattern.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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^^ I don't dispute the DNATribes results for the reasons you mentioned, but I do wish some non-corporate researcher would publish a similar report in a peer-reviewed journal. The results wouldn't change of course, but a "proper" peer-reviewed scientific source would have an advantage in debates.
Come to think of it...what kind of software would researchers need for those purposes? I am a UCSD Bio. Anthropology undergrad, so maybe the tools lie closer to my fingers than I thought...
Posts: 7069 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
^ Yet it should be pointed out that there is still a gulf between Egyptology proper and all other disciplines which help it. Even physical anthropological studies of remains as well as cultural anthropology have only recently made a dent on the paradigm that is Egyptology. Genetics is the next big thing, but I am really looking forward to change in the way Egypt is taught by Egyptology itself. This obfuscation of its African identity needs to stop. I don't know what the heck Hawass is going to do since this cover on Egypt's true identity is being blown.
Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ Yet it should be pointed out that there is still a gulf between Egyptology proper and all other disciplines which help it. Even physical anthropological studies of remains as well as cultural anthropology have only recently made a dent on the paradigm that is Egyptology. Genetics is the next big thing, but I am really looking forward to change in the way Egypt is taught by Egyptology itself. This obfuscation of its African identity needs to stop. I don't know what the heck Hawass is going to do since this cover on Egypt's true identity is being blown.
I get the impression that there's not a lot of inter-disciplinary collaboration when it comes to Egyptology. The scholars are all so specialized in their studies that they don't know what their colleagues on the other side of academia have found. Scholars like Keita who bother to leave their personal bubbles and connect all the dots are few and far between.
Ironically, given Egyptology's inherently broad scope (basically everything pertaining to pre-Islamic Egypt), such disciplinary isolation is probably the worst thing that could happen to it, especially when it comes to contentious debates like the race issue. In an ideal world, Egyptologists would have more authority than most to comment on the Egyptians' ethnic affiliations, but most of them both lack the qualifications and the interest to investigate the topic. I guess most of them simply assume that Egyptians have always looked the way they do now and don't think twice about it.
Come to think of it, mainstream Egyptology as a field of research is an archaic 19th century relic. It owes its very existence to racist Europeans who knew far less about Nile Valley prehistory and anthropology than we do now. We really need a new discipline with a more extensive emphasis on the Nile Valley as a whole.
Posts: 7069 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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To those interested. ESR stickie thread by Zaharan on Rameses III has an example of the software and how the determination is done using published data by Hawass, from both the JAMA data and the BMJ data. You can do exactly what DNATribes did. You don't need them.
DNATribes has a larger and wider population database so they can pinpoint near exact location...like southern Africa. So attacking DNATribes shows your ignorance ...or trickery
In CODIS(FBI) it will just show up as Black or African American since their DB is probably limited and it is sufficient for their purpose ie crime fighting ie getting a visually of the victim or perpetrator.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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Rameses III can still be R-M269(European lineage). To Swenets point. IE A black man carry European male lineage. But that is 1/100,000. Virtually impossble.
In this country, post slavery, it is likely..... back then ...naaaah!!!
pop-affl STR as those published by JAMA and BMJ, also used by CODIS, basically tells researchers that the subject has close affinity to a particular group going back several generations.
That is why Comas et al(STR)has Berbers has belonging to Africa along with all other Africans...just as the dreaded Bantus.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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^ I've taken a look at the ESR thread, but the software it links to confuses me at the moment. For example, I don't know how to submit data using the AllSTR.de software.
posted
One of the post has an image and example of the STR data for Rameses III already filled out. It is very simple. Keep in mind there are two set of data for ONE STR. Why? One from your mommy and one from your daddy.
Go to the link from that image. Look at how the STRs are filled out.
eg FGA(?) has two values. Plug in those two values, then go on to the next STR set. When all eight are filled out you need to hit 'return/submit". But since the software require a minimum of nine(9). You have to fudge the ninth number set. Typically a value 5-24. You can put the highest(24) value or the lowest(5). All result is sub-saharan.
Think of FGA as the name of a something. Forget about the meaning. These are just names to identify the STR. There are eight of them published by JAMA. What is important is the value. The relative values is what determines the geographic region of origin. Since we are all humans we all have the same set of STRs. What is different is the VALUE/Amount. People from the same geographic region will have the similar values. eg for FGA 24/34.2. Europeans may be 10/9 for FGA. Putting all the STRs together gives one an good idea. Of course the more STR sets the more accurate.
That is why Hawass publishes only eight and not nine. He doesn't want to give it all away. With nine there is certanty(100%). But with 8 there is 90% probability.
Many experts agree the values of ONLY two STR is good enough.
GOOGLE - should give a few more software. There is one on a Canadian police website that shows up as Negro.....ugh!!! that word.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: One of the post has an image and example of the STR data for Rameses III already filled out. It is very simple. Keep in mind there are two set of data for ONE STR. Why? One from your mommy and one from your daddy.
I can easily find the STR data for Rameses III, but I was talking about how to use the software.
Posts: 7069 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Hawass published 8 because the kit used 8. MiniFiler only types for 8 autosomal STRs typically ones easiest to extract from ancient DNA and not be degraded over time.
Also, the 16 Y-STRs of the Yfiler PCR amplification kit will not only predict haplogroup using Athey but points out geographies when entered into YHRD.
When using YHRD I suggest this 9 STR haplotype/profile DYS19 DYS389I DYS389II DYS390 DYS391 DYS392 DYS393 DYS385 DYS439 because the full 16 STR profile is likely to only match one person, the ancient entity under examination.
posted
For those who are following or willing to understand. BTW – I usually post stuff like this on ESR . . .but.. .. since I had some PMs here.
Some knowledge of high school Biology is required or at least will make it easier to understand.
The Human genome = the entire road map of AMH genes. There are 2 types of DNA/chromosomes.
1. Autosomal(22 Chromosome sets) which is not sex related( ie not on the Y or X chromosome),
2. On the Y or X chromosome DNA.
Think of the human genome as I-95 roadway from NY to Florida. Along the way there are cities, small towns and mile marker post. At specific points expect to see certain towns. Eg Philadelphia and Baltimore are cities on I-95 on your way to Florida.
(note – the X and Y genome is not included on I-95 for this example. We will get to why later).
Now, think of Philadelphia = an STR, so Philadelphia is only the name of an STR, Baltimore is another name of another STR on I-95, etc. All humans have the same STR at the same point on the genome. So everyone has a Philadelphia or Baltimore or a TPOX or THO1, etc.
The DIFFERENCE is really the size or repeats of the target town. eg Some population have a 12mile long Philadelphia others have 5 mile long Philadelphia.
Researchers agree on 8-18 STRs that will distinguish human population ie races, to drive my point home.
These are autosomal STRs not y-STR(Sage!?)
A subset of the standardize STRs are what was published in JAMA and BMJ on the mummies. Eg THO1=Philadelphia, TPOX=Baltimore etc, for now it doesn’t matter what TPOX means. We can get to that later.
But the size or repeats of the THO1 is the same for Africans and the AEians mummies.
As I said most researchers have agreed to the 8-18 STRs. Some have speculated that only the values of two (2) STRs are needed to arrive at a probability of origin. How?
See illustration below.
Look at Europeans in the chart. Notice the TPOX is the same for all European groups ie above 40%. Now take a look at the Chinese TPOX value which is also above 40%. Now to tell the difference between the Chinese and European you look at any other STR eg THO1. Notice the Europeans THO1 is about 25% but the Chinese THO1 is above 40%.
So there you have it. Only two STRs and you can tell the difference immediately between Chinese and European. Similar scenario for the Chinese THO1/D13S317 versus African American THO1/D13S317. Similar THO1 value but different for D13S317.
Very simple isn’t it?
You can do it manually but a computerize software makes it easier. This is what the DNATribes software or any other similar software does. Of course the more STRs are included the more accurate the result.
BTW – Autosomal STR is on a different roadway compared to the sex STR(y or X). That is why when you read these studies make sure it is apples and apples. CODIS, JAMA STRs and BMJ STRs are the same. That is, apples and apples,
Comparing the autosomal STRs with Y-DNA STRs are comparing apples and oranges. . . . Sage.
Also – think of SNPs as a specific “mile marker” on the human genome, down to the exact yard ie extremely small. That is why it is called “single” nucleotide polymorphism(SNP). Think I-95 again but at mile marker 2500miles eg there Cytosine is substituted for Thymine (C-T). Now since the human genome is mapped out. Researchers know the exact nucleotide is expected at that mile marker location( 2500miles). Eg either CTGA. If it is different ie a mutation, it is called a polymorphism (or SNP).
As with STRs there are also autosomal SNPs and sex chromosome related SNPs. So again as with STR make sure it is apples and apples when talking SNPs. Also SNP is nonsense code meaning it does not determine a phenotype, trait, disease, etc. . Since it is not really a gene. It is only a signpost.
Also keep in mind the length of the human genome may be in the billions of Nucleotides(CTGA), as a consequence the SNPs are in the 100,000s. So choosing a few thousand SNPs to study does not go a long way. Since it may be less that 1% of all the human SNPs. That is why the FBI and other groups are reluctant to use it. In addition the data and SNPs can easily manipulated and misinterpreted --- see Henn et al thread.
Now on to the nomenclature. It is not that difficult either. Eg C1234T, means at position 1234 Cytosine is substituted/transition for Thymine. C is normal while T is the mutation or polymorphism. Of course there is more to it but we can get to that later.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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I dont know if I should laugh or cry....I guess laugh because it is so obvious and extremely pitiful!
quote: Noah : This discrepancy is, again, largely attributable to ALFRED including samples from populations and places that other databases have not.
Mwuua ha ha ha - Dumb retard clown does not realize that DNA tribes database is nearly double that of the others he is referencing.. Look at this pitiful gem:
quote:Egypt1110 Connecting the dots, it would appear that since there were no Bantus or Nilotics in ancient Egypt this "shared" ancestry between Ramses III (as well as Tut) would have been generated by a Caucasoid/Eurasian ancestor based on at least two factors, one being that (and I know you know this) haplogroup E descends from M168 Eurasian Adam and Ramses III/Pentawere's skulls do not reflect a negroid appearance......here appears to have been a pocket of Eurasian Adams E1b1a lineage in ancient Egypt while siblings of this clade migrated into Sub Sahara producing the Bantus. Additionally, this marker being present in Levantine populations would also reflect a common ancestor in E1b1a between the Levant and Egypt. The Levant is much closer to Egypt than Sub Sahara.
These fools are pitiful, delusional and just plain retarded. I dont know people like these even existed..... LULZ...i am dying over here!!!!
Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
The Euronuts' efforts to squeeze Caucasian (that is, lighter-skinned West Eurasian) ancestry into the ancient Egyptian gene pool taste all the more ironic now because if you actually look at the DNATribes MLI scores for all the mummies sampled thus far, they indicate if anything extremely low Caucasian admixture in AEs. Notice that the Africans whose MLI most closely match the mummies are the ones most genetically distant from non-Africans whereas those with significantly more Eurasian affinity (e.g. Sahelians and Horners) overlap with the mummies far less. The general trend is that the more non-African ancestry you have, the less similar you are genetically to the Egyptians. Far from being significantly impacted by Caucasian back-migrants as the Euronuts would have it, the ancient Egyptians were as African genetically as you could get. They were certainly blacker than, say, Barack Obama or most Afro Diaspora people.
posted
^ Right these fools are delusional. The cool think about DNA tribes is its not just the STR values. Any fool like those the "Noah" on that site can see where each STR peaks on a globa scale. Its the profile of the COMBINED STR values found in the individual they helps match to more specific regions. This would be DNA tribes proprietary algorithm.
quote: The primary benefit of STR rather than SNP testing is the availability of reference data. DNA Tribes tests industry standard autosomal STR systems, which allow the identification of a person's DNA profile not shared with any other person. Because these STRs have been tested for use in court systems around the world, they allow DNA Tribes to perform the most thorough comparison of a person's own DNA profile to over 1,000 ethnic groups around the world. At present, SNP testing does not yet match the geographical detail of DNA Tribes autosomal STR analysis.
Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
How could E1b1a "descend" from M168?Y haplo group is male specific,men do not descend from men directly.M168 is a more ancient mutation of the Y chromosome than E1b1a.
Posts: 121 | From: Guyana | Registered: Mar 2012
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quote:Originally posted by Truthcentric: The Euronuts' efforts to squeeze Caucasian (that is, lighter-skinned West Eurasian) ancestry into the ancient Egyptian gene pool taste all the more ironic now because if you actually look at the DNATribes MLI scores for all the mummies sampled thus far, they indicate if anything extremely low Caucasian admixture in AEs. Notice that the Africans whose MLI most closely match the mummies are the ones most genetically distant from non-Africans whereas those with significantly more Eurasian affinity (e.g. Sahelians and Horners) overlap with the mummies far less. The general trend is that the more non-African ancestry you have, the less similar you are genetically to the Egyptians. Far from being significantly impacted by Caucasian back-migrants as the Euronuts would have it, the ancient Egyptians were as African genetically as you could get. They were certainly blacker than, say, Barack Obama or most Afro Diaspora people.
LOL That is indeed the very delicious irony of it all! These Euronuts base their entire lives on the notion that ancient Egyptian means 'Eurasian' or at least 'Eurasian-mixed', yet the data from the mummies themselves refutes this. It seems that Eurasian admixture does correlate to late dynastic times, which really corroborates the historical documents of the Egyptians themselves that their country was more or less insulated from Eurasia until late times. Again, such DNA findings do not surprise me in the least.
quote:Originally posted by beyoku: BWWAAA HA HA HA - Looking that these fvcking retards squirm and perform feats of mental gymnastics!
I don't know if I should laugh or cry....I guess laugh because it is so obvious and extremely pitiful!
I personally don't pay attention to clowns whether they be 'Hamitic Union' or 'Racial Reality' or 'Mathilda's Blog'. You may relish in their mental agony, but I don't give a damn about them. If anything, I pity the losers.
quote:
quote: Noah : This discrepancy is, again, largely attributable to ALFRED including samples from populations and places that other databases have not.
Mwuua ha ha ha - Dumb retard clown does not realize that DNA tribes database is nearly double that of the others he is referencing..
Which means he is betrayed by his own ignorance when it comes to arguing over this topic.
quote:Look at this pitiful gem:
quote:Egypt1110 Connecting the dots, it would appear that since there were no Bantus or Nilotics in ancient Egypt this "shared" ancestry between Ramses III (as well as Tut) would have been generated by a Caucasoid/Eurasian ancestor based on at least two factors, one being that (and I know you know this) haplogroup E descends from M168 Eurasian Adam and Ramses III/Pentawere's skulls do not reflect a negroid appearance......here appears to have been a pocket of Eurasian Adams E1b1a lineage in ancient Egypt while siblings of this clade migrated into Sub Sahara producing the Bantus. Additionally, this marker being present in Levantine populations would also reflect a common ancestor in E1b1a between the Levant and Egypt. The Levant is much closer to Egypt than Sub Sahara.
These fools are pitiful, delusional and just plain retarded. I dont know people like these even existed..... LULZ...i am dying over here!!!!
LMAO Yes that quote is hilarious! Never mind the fool's debunked racial notions of a skull displaying "caucasoid" morphology. This idiot actually equates E1b1 with "Eurasian Adam"! How is this so, when not only does E1b1 post date 'Eurasian Adam' by many millennia but obviously originated in the African continent?! Also, besides the fact that both Bantu and Nilotic are accurately speaking linguistic groupings, the fool apparently does not know that Nilotic speakers still exist today in southern Egypt (Nubia) as they have for millennia before dynastic Egypt. In fact there was a DNA study done on neolithic Lower Nubians (the same ones who were classified as 'Caucasoid' on account of cranial morphology) and it turns out they carried paternal hg A, a typically Nilotic lineage!!
Again, the problem with Euronuts is that they jack-sh|t about the very matters they argue about.
[ 05. June 2017, 12:13 PM: Message edited by: BlessedbyHorus ]
Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Yeah I kept hearing more mummies will be tested in 2013..Is this just the first?
Posts: 1135 | From: Top secret | Registered: Jun 2012
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Our great ancestor Cheikh Anta Diop should be so thrilled on the other side with all those genetic test confirming his theories.
Diop already "proposed" to analyze the skin pigmentation of Ancient Egyptian mummies but DNA testing is even much better as many people can have black skin but only African people can have African DNA (within all probability obviously).
Diop was really ahead his time. A real pioneer. Théophile Obenga and other current African historians are no doubt thrilled too. I think more and more historians/egyptologist will begin to re-insert Ancient Egyptian history within the global African history. The Ancient Sahelian civilisation, Ancient Egypt and the Kushite empire are all part of the African history as are the Kongo Kingdom, Yoruba Kingdom, Great Zimbabwe, etc.
For African historians and hobbyist, I think it's important to develop more known African Kingdom such as Zulu, Kongo, Nok, Yoruba, Zimbabwe, etc as well as exploring the Ancient Sahelian civilisation, Kemet and Nubia.
While they can be studied in isolation, which is great too. There exist many cultural and religious link between all those Kingdoms. Even Ancient Egyptian collars can be seen in Xhosa/Zulu people. Headrest can be seen all over Africa (not elsewhere). They all share similar Ancestral religions. Linguistic links should also be explored more like Theophile Obenga did.
More books and art work (comics, animated series for children (or adults), video games, etc) should be done about African history in general.
Posts: 2981 | Registered: Jan 2012
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Anyone has any feedback on what Kieta is saying about these DNA revelations?
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: LMAO Yes that quote is hilarious! Never mind the fool's debunked racial notions of a skull displaying "caucasoid" morphology. This idiot actually equates E1b1 with "Eurasian Adam"! How is this so, when not only does E1b1 post date 'Eurasian Adam' by many millennia but obviously originated in the African continent?! Also, besides the fact that both Bantu and Nilotic are accurately speaking linguistic groupings, the fool apparently does not know that Nilotic speakers still exist today in southern Egypt (Nubia) as they have for millennia before dynastic Egypt. In fact there was a DNA study done on neolithic Lower Nubians (the same ones who were classified as 'Caucasoid' on account of cranial morphology) and it turns out they carried paternal hg A, a typically Nilotic lineage!!
Again, the problem with Euronuts is that they jack-sh|t about the very matters they argue about.
The thing that makes this so preposterous is that Niger Congo speakers have WAY more E than the East Africans they so desperately want to be Caucasian. Making E Eurasian to increase Ramses III's Caucasoidness will phuck their agenda up even more (e.g., no more ''true negro''). SMGDH. I'm trying to contemplate the amount of mental sickness that is implicated in the minds of the folks who make this up.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally edited by Djehuti: LMAO Yes that quote is hilarious! Never mind the fool's debunked racial notions of a skull displaying "caucasoid" morphology. This idiot actually equates E1b1 with "Eurasian Adam"! How is this so, when not only does E1b1 post date 'Eurasian Adam' by many millennia but obviously originated in the African continent?! Also, besides the fact that both Bantu and Nilotic are accurately speaking linguistic groupings, the fool apparently does not know that Nilotic speakers still exist today in southern Egypt (Nubia) as they have for millennia before dynastic Egypt. In fact there was a DNA study done on neolithic Lower Nubians (the same ones who were classified as 'Caucasoid' on account of cranial morphology) and it turns out they carried paternal hg A, a typically Nilotic lineage!!
Again, the problem with Euronuts is that they *don't know* jack-sh|t about the very matters they argue about.
The thing that makes this so preposterous is that Niger Congo speakers have WAY more E than the East Africans they so desperately want to be Caucasian. Making E Eurasian to increase Ramses III's Caucasoidness will phuck their agenda up even more (e.g., no more ''true negro''). SMGDH. I'm trying to contemplate the amount of mental sickness that is implicated in the minds of the folks who make this up.
Indeed. Part of the the dynamics of the mental disorder I call racialism is the logical inconsistency and double think. Anyone with narrow facial traits is a caucasoid even if those remains are found in Sub-Sahara such as Tanzania but broad featured skulls are only negroid if they are found in Sub-Sahara. As soon as they are found in North Africa let alone outside of the continent they are 'Mediterraneans' or anything else but 'negroid'. This same biased and flawed thinking is being used with genetics. You realize that when E1b1b (formerly E3b) was first discovered it was labeled as 'Eurasian' because it is found in Europe and southwest Asia but then it was discovered to have its greatest frequency and diversity in Africa as well as up-stream underived markers like E3b* in Africa alone. Most experts then came to the logical conclusion that it was African however, there were those that believed it originated in Africa after a "back-migration". Yet we have E1b1a (E3a) predominating in West Africa, and more recently we have DE carriers in West Africa as well whose clade is ancestral to both E and D. So what do the Euronuts have left??
Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Let me try to save this thread from destruction...
I wonder if they'll ever test a larger sample of ancient Egyptian remains (say, those of commoner populations) using this kind of methodology? I imagine getting all those STR profiles would produce quite a headache, but at least it would give us an even better picture of the ancient Egyptian population's genetic affinities.
quote:Originally posted by Truthcentric: Let me try to save this thread from destruction...
I wonder if they'll ever test a larger sample of ancient Egyptian remains (say, those of commoner populations) using this kind of methodology? I imagine getting all those STR profiles would produce quite a headache, but at least it would give us an even better picture of the ancient Egyptian population's genetic affinities.
True enough. Unfortunately Egyptology is plagued with bias for royal mummies, not that there is no focus on commoners at all. I have seen many decent studies on remains from commoner cemeteries. Though no doubt any DNA analyses on these remains will have to wait until the royals are covered first. Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Truthcentric: Let me try to save this thread from destruction...
I wonder if they'll ever test a larger sample of ancient Egyptian remains (say, those of commoner populations) using this kind of methodology? I imagine getting all those STR profiles would produce quite a headache, but at least it would give us an even better picture of the ancient Egyptian population's genetic affinities.
True enough. Unfortunately Egyptology is plagued with bias for royal mummies, not that there is no focus on commoners at all. I have seen many decent studies on remains from commoner cemeteries. Though no doubt any DNA analyses on these remains will have to wait until the royals are covered first.
I also want to see the DNA analysis of commoners but I prefer if they do the royalty first. Can't wait for the 11th and 12th dynasty in particular. Commoners have more chance at being foreigners, admixed with foreigners or prisoners of war (in indigenous dynasties that is) possibly blurring the picture of the population structure and ethnic identity.
Posts: 2981 | Registered: Jan 2012
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^ That depends on the time period in question. There is little doubt that during dynastic times the common populace was by and large indigenous and not 'foreign' in any way. Perhaps foreign influence can be stated for the Delta but even then such influence was limited. Not only that, but there is archaeological evidence to conclude that the majority of Egyptians during dynastic times lived in the valley which is in contrast to the situation in modern times-- the vast majority living in the Delta. This is also reflected in the genetics of the modern populace where you have a great deal of founder-effect phenomenon for many foreign lineages in the Delta even though some indigenous lineages still exist. The Nile Valley on the other hand still has predominantly indigenous lineages. I think it would be interesting to do a DNA comparison between dynastic peoples of the Delta and modern peoples of the Delta and then the same with valley peoples. No doubt it would be the valley peoples who show the least difference between ancient and modern.
Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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