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Is there any place or does anyone have access to the article "Cultural entanglement at the dawn of the Egyptian history: a View from the Nile First Cataract Region (2014) "
I can't find it on academia or anywhere else, seems to have been part of a book?
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Meet on the Level, act upon the Plumb, part on the Square. Posts: 574 | From: Guinee | Registered: Jul 2014
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It is an article in an academic publication by Maria Carmela Gatto who specializes in the history of the areas around the 1st cataract between the 5th and 3rd millenium BC.
Of course, her language still tries to present this area a 'racial' boundary between two different 'races' of people as opposed to a continuation of indigenous African populations with various cultural traits shared in common that ultimately originated in the South. The archaeology is the oldest in the South of Egypt. The rock art, towns, sites of settlement, plant domestication and everything else is all thousands of years older in the South of Egypt than anything else in Egypt proper. But they still try and spin it as if Egypt somehow came out of isolation separate from the cultures to the South that gave rise to Egypt.
From her page on the British Museum Website:
quote: In this respect, it is important to bring to light which aspects of their social life (corresponding to symbolic principles) are hybrid elements and which are elements of the two original identities. Several studies of frontiers emphasize the need for both macro- and micro-scale analyses, as well as the availability of funerary, domestic and ritual sites. Thus, three types of site are here described: a settlement found at Nag el-Qarmila, a small valley to the north of Kubbaniya; its associated cemetery and an isolated tumulus found in the desert east of Kom Ombo; and a ritual site with rock art found in Wadi Abu Subeira.
Now just to show how absurd their narratives are and the wordplay being used to reinforce old misconceptions and distortions, look at the following:
quote: Prehistoric sites were first found in the area of the First Cataract of the Nile more than a century ago (Weigall 1907; Reisner 1910; Junker 1919). These sites were assigned to the A-Group culture (Reisner 1910) because of the Nubian elements indentified in their material remains. A Nubian cultural affiliation was expected since the sites were located in the region of Aswan, positioned at the border between Egypt and Nubia. However, a review of the available data has shown that, in the area surrounding Aswan and southward to Metardul, the percentage of Nubian material is always extremely low compared to the Egyptian component, thus suggesting that the sites in this region should be affiliated with the Naqada culture rather than the Nubian A-Group (atto and Tiraterra 1996; Gatto 1997; 1998; 2000; 2006a; 2006b). This revised cultural affiliation, however, does not answer the question of how the Nubian and Egyptian components are related . Before this relationship can be assessed, two questions must be addressed: 1) What is a frontier, and so how should we define the Egyptian-Nubian frontier? 2) What are the cultural consequences resulting from the interaction of two human groups in their boundary zone, and how can this be detected in the archaeological record?
First, how can one speak of Egyptians versus Nubians if there was no Egyptian state? Egypt was the first nation state on earth. Before the first dynasty there was no Egypt and therefore no Egyptians. But here they keep trying to reinforce this "racial" distinction based on a national entity that didn't even exist yet. The whole point is to downplay and ignore the fact that ALL of the elements of Egyptian culture came from the South to begin with, so there was no real distinction.
Then notice how they say how few "A-Group" artifacts were found around Aswan and to the South as opposed to Egyptian artifacts. Again, if there was no Egypt then how were these artifacts Egyptian? And what is the "A-Group", A-Group of what? Where on earth does a population identify themselves, their culture or their ethnicity by a letter of the alphabet.
Which brings me to the next point, what is "Egypt" and "Nubia" in this context before Egypt even existed? And how can you compare "Nubia" with Egypt if Egypt was the first nation state on earth? There was no other nation state on the Nile valley called "Nubia". Yet they keep pretending that there was this quasi-racial disntinction between "Egyptians" and "Nubians" as if they were two distinct nation states and racial groups all at the same time, even before "Egypt" even existed.
Not to mention that they turn right around and say the artifacts found in this area should be associated with the Naqada culture, not the "A-Group". But wait, as I said before, this is all a bunch of word games. Before "Egypt" existed the "Naqada" culture was based around the city the people called "Nubt" or "golden city" or "city of gold" in the local language. Therefore, not ironically that would make them the first "Nubians" as Nub is the ancient word for gold in that area. So technically the Naqada culture that preceded the rise of Egypt was actually a "Nubian" culture based around the "golden people" from the "golden city" of Nubt. But of course that would be lost without understanding the proper context. And understanding this, you would see why calling people to the South Nubians, makes no sense. As there was no nation state to the south or even any places or towns with such a name or culture.
That said, the city of Nubt was based on trade and relations with various groups further south and many of the artifacts found there did indeed originate from further South, in Ta Seti (another name for Naqada). Ta Seti in turn was influenced by cultures even further South and far older in Kerma and Khartoum. That is the implications of not being able to distinguish any "A-Group" artifacts around Aswan in this time period, because no separate 'racial', 'national' or 'ethnic' group existed. It is all something made up by white archaeologists.
But this whole paper is trying to maintain a fake distinction between a non existent Nubia and Egypt even before Egypt even existed, claiming interconnection but avoiding stating the fact that the cultural traditions originated in the South.
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quote:Originally posted by Doug M: [QB] It is an article in an academic publication by Maria Carmela Gatto who specializes in the history of the areas around the 1st cataract between the 5th and 3rd millenium BC.
From her page on the British Museum Website....
Now just to show how absurd their narratives are and the wordplay being used to reinforce old misconceptions and distortions, look at the following:
quote: Prehistoric sites were first found in the area of the First Cataract of the Nile more than a century ago (Weigall 1907; Reisner 1910; Junker 1919). These sites were assigned to the A-Group culture (Reisner 1910) because of the Nubian elements indentified in their material remains. A Nubian cultural affiliation was expected since the sites were located in the region of Aswan, positioned at the border between Egypt and Nubia. However, a review of the available data has shown that, in the area surrounding Aswan and southward to Metardul, the percentage of Nubian material is always extremely low compared to the Egyptian component, thus suggesting that the sites in this region should be affiliated with the Naqada culture rather than the Nubian A-Group (atto and Tiraterra 1996; Gatto 1997; 1998; 2000; 2006a; 2006b). This revised cultural affiliation, however, does not answer the question of how the Nubian and Egyptian components are related . Before this relationship can be assessed, two questions must be addressed: 1) What is a frontier, and so how should we define the Egyptian-Nubian frontier? 2) What are the cultural consequences resulting from the interaction of two human groups in their boundary zone, and how can this be detected in the archaeological record?
First, how can one speak of Egyptians versus Nubians if there was no Egyptian state? Egypt was the first nation state on earth. Before the first dynasty there was no Egypt and therefore no Egyptians. But here they keep trying to reinforce this "racial" distinction based on a national entity that didn't even exist yet. The whole point is to downplay and ignore the fact that ALL of the elements of Egyptian culture came from the South to begin with, so there was no real distinction.
If you read the above quote, Maria Carmela Gatto is using standard Egyptology terms to distinguish two different settlement sites Naqada culture and Nubian A-Group.
Nowhere is a racial distinction made
2014 Cultural entanglement at the dawn of the Egyptian history: a View by Maria Carmela Gatto
But this whole paper is trying to maintain a fake distinction between a non existent Nubia and Egypt even before Egypt even existed, claiming interconnection but avoiding stating the fact that the cultural traditions originated in the South.
The Kingdom of Kerma, a Nubian culture that emerged late in the fourth millennium B.C., will dominate Upper Nubia for almost a thousand years. Egyptian texts refer to it as Kush.
Based on ceramic materials discovered in the cemeteries on Sai Island and at Kerma, three chronological periods can be distinguished: Early Kerma (circa 2450-2050 B.C.), Middle Kerma (circa 2050-1750 B.C.) and Classic Kerma (circa 1750-1480 B.C.). A fourth period, called Final Kerma, denotes the transition between the end of the kingdom and the Egyptian occupation (circa 1480-1450 B.C.).
Classic Kerma is the most glorious period the kingdom has known. The influence of its rulers spreads even to Lower Nubia and an alliance proposed by a Hyksos king of the Fifteenth Dynasty, around 1580 B.C., corroborates the kingdom’s importance on the political scene. Monumental and large-scale works are undertaken in the city and the necropolis. The western deffufa now resembles an Egyptian temple and a port is established south of the city. Two large temples of more than 40 m tall are erected in the necropolis, where the last royal tumuli clearly demonstrate the power of the kings. The kingdom’s collapse is undoubtedly hastened by this conspicuous display of wealth, coveted by northern neighbours, as well as the overexploitation of soils and an increased desertification.
The Egyptian conquest of the Kingdom of Kush is carried out by one of the most illustrious New Kingdom pharaohs, Thutmosis I (1496-1483 B.C.). After having recaptured the forts of Lower Nubia and seized Kerma, he establishes a new city one kilometre north of the latter, at the site of Dukki Gel. Egyptian influence over this region south of the Third Cataract is not truly felt until the reign of Thutmosis III (1479-1424 B.C.).
The Nubians must leave their homes, often burnt during the conquest. Several settle at Soleb, Sesebi, Tabo, Kawa or at the foot of Gebel Barkal. Our understanding of the transition from the Kerma cultures to the Egyptian occupation is made difficult due to numerous conflicts between indigenous populations and the new settlers. The administration of the country is given to a viceroy, who bears the title “King’s Son of Kush,” although a certain authority is left to the local elite. Indeed, a policy of Egyptianisation is quickly launched. The children of the defeated chiefs are thus sent to Egypt in order to be educated in Pharaoh’s court.
Today, the city of Dukki Gel is partially buried under a palm grove, which makes impossible an exhaustive study of its development. Available landmarks, however, allow a comparison of its proportions to other Egyptian cities in Nubia. Interpretation of the religious quarter proves complex; our understanding of early buildings is complicated by restorations and constructions dated to the later Napatan or Meroitic periods. Projects commissioned by pharaohs of the Eighteenth and Nineteenth dynasties are evidenced by the various foundation deposits discovered at temples within the precinct. One of these temples was dedicated to the god Amun.
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This is not the first time we have discussed the false dichotomy between "Egypt" and "Nubia". Egypt as a reference to dynastic KMT was a unified nation consisting of various nomes or provinces. "Nubia" is a nonexistent entity made up entirely by white archaeologists to imply a unified collection of populations and cultures south of Egypt that does not and never did exist. In fact as stated over and over again on this forum, the populations most accurately called "Nubians" in the predynastic and early dynastic period are the Egyptians themselves. Those are the populations centered around the ancient town of Nubt, which is called Naqada by Egyptologists and the name used for a phase of the predynastic. This same population had its roots in what the ancient Egyptians called Ta Seti which was an area corresponding to the region between Nubt and South of Aswan as the first nome or first province of Dynastic KMT, kind of equivalent to 'plymouth rock" in the American context. There was no "other" competing nation state in the Nile Valley that was a collection of various provinces and towns on the scale of Dynastic Egypt called "Nubia". Yet Egyptologists keep using this term as if to imply all these people are lumped together as if sharing a common bond of culture, nationality, ethnicity and religion when no such thing existed. Just like in Sudan today, you have many different ethnic groups and many different cultures and beliefs along that stretch of the Nile valley.
When most Egyptologists talk about "Nubia" they are really talking about Ta Seti, the region around the Aswan and the immediate south, which was the birthplace of many of the elements that became dynastic Egypt. But Ta Seti, was incorporated into Egypt as the first nome of the country, those people cannot be considered foreigners.. These people had a close association with other ethnic groups to the South of Egypt who were called on regularly for support in periods of chaos. Those were distinct ethnic groups who while not directly part of the Egyptian state were considered as 'bretheren' or kinsfolk who could be called on for support. That is why these Egyptologists spend so much time trying to mantain this fake distinction when no such thing existed.
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So what about the Kushites that are recorded and named in Egyptian texts and in art as a distinct national group, some might say that they are depicted sometimes as looking different as well (other times not) who at various points of time had military conflicts with the Egyptians?
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Thank you for showcasing all the people of Greater Sudan instead of just the people of the North. The people of the South [despite their independence] are an integral part of Sudan and its history. The Dinka only started leaving the Gezira [just South of Khartoum] at the end of the 13th Century and completed their migration to modern day South Sudan in the 17th Century.
I mention this because Yonis once claimed that South Sudanese and North Sudanese didn't even know each other before the British introduced them and forced them together - which is false.
The Nilotic tribes lived in the Gezira for thousands of years, and would undoubtedly have interacted with Northern tribes and civilizations throughout that period.
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The East African Nilotic culture evolved 2, 000 years ago in the Gezira, the land between the Blue and White Niles in present day Sudan. Over time the Nilotes migrated southwards in clans and currently reside in southern Sudan, Ethiopia, Uganda, Kenya and Tanzania.
The Western Nilotes, the greatest population of Nilotes people in Sudan, include the Dinka, Shilluk, Anuak, Nuer, Luo, Atwot, Acholi, and Burun (and numerous smaller groups). The Burun remain in the Gezira and the others reside in southern Sudan or on the Sudanese/Ethiopian border (Anuak) and Ugandan/Sudanese border (Acholi). [B][/B] (Encyclopedia of Africa, Volume 2)
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The homeland of these African Nilotic Sudanese was at one time in Central Sudan, specifically in the Gezira, and the last of them to leave, according to their traditions of migration, were the Dinka (in their own language the Jiang of Moinjiang) some time in the fifteenth century who pushed the Luo, who had gone before them, further into southern Sudan. (A History of Modern Sudan, Robert O. Collins)
Linguisic studies such as those by Ehret suggest that the cradleland of all Nilotic languages lies north of the Ethiopian border between the Blue and White Niles in the Sudanese Gezira, specifically in the present-day home-land of the Burun. Nicholas David adds that a dialect chain of western, eastern, and southern branches of Nilotic languages diversify from a more northerly part of the Gezira in a southerly direction suggesting the language began in what is now the central Sudan and then spread south. Clarifying the puzzle, William Y. Adams argues that the original homeland of any language family emanates from that area where the various member languages have the widest diversity; in this case the country of the Burun west of the Ethiopian highlands in the Gezira. Thus, the cradleland of all Nilotic people, according to linguistics, was the Gezira. (Sudan's Blood Memory: The Legacy of War, Ethnicity, and Slavery in Early South Sudan, Stephanie Beswick)
Adding further evidence and looking back at the ancient linguistic history of the Nilotes, Ehret suggests the material culture of the Nilotes in the Gezira took shape during the Aquatic period around 9000-6000 B.C.E. The ancestral Nilotes took on a distinct identity from 6500 to 550 B.C.E. approximately, and as the Sudd shrank to modern proportions from 2000 to 1000 B.C.E. at the end of the Saharan wet phase, some of the Nilotes expanded southwards as far as Lake Turkana. (Sudan's Blood Memory: The Legacy of War, Ethnicity, and Slavery in Early South Sudan, Stephanie Beswick)
In the meantime the ancestors of the Dinka remained in the old homelands Around 1400 A.D. the Dinka began their expansion out of the Gezira while the modern Luo speakers of all descriptions were pushed southwards to various peripheries. Within South Sudan today there are only Western and Eastern-speaking peoples. As the former are the numerically dominant, much of this volume is devoted to their histories in the region. Other recent scholarship also shows that the Dinka language has a close connection to classical Nubian of central Sudan. (Sudan's Blood Memory: The Legacy of War, Ethnicity, and Slavery in Early South Sudan, Stephanie Beswick)
Bender lists Nilotic and Nubian as Eastern Sudanic languages and linguistic studies conducted by Robin Thelwall suggest an unexpected degree of similarity in vocabulary between Dinka and the modern linguistic descendant of classical Nubian, Nobiin. Thelwall compared Daju, Nubian and Dinka and wrote: "The inter Daju-Nubian comparisons give a spread of ten to twenty-five percent...However, the check of Dinka gives one comparison (with Nobiin [the classical language of Nubia] of twenty-seven percent... and this stronger link to Dinka than to Daju implies that it was in close contact with Dinka." In his first interpretation of this linguistic evidence, Thelwall attributed these similarities to a loaning process of historical interraction between speakers of classical Nubian and their Dinka contemporaries. The plausibility of this interpretation has more recently been enhanced by the demonstration that numbers of modern Arabic-speaking peoples of the central Nile valley Sudan previously spoke a Nubian language more closely related to Nobiin than to the modern-day Nubian language of Kenzi-Dongolawi. In the recent past Nubian speakers were widely distributed extending up the Nile as far as modern-day Khartoum and over much of the Gezira. The far southern Nubian kingdom was Alwa and, if the subjects of this kingdom spoke classical Nubian, as seems likely, they had at least a millenium in which to interract linguistically with the Dinka who claim to have resided in the same region. Archaelogy also supports the Dinka claims of a central Sudanese homeland. (Sudan's Blood Memory: The Legacy of War, Ethnicity, and Slavery in Early South Sudan, Stephanie Beswick)
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Archaelogical studies suggest a Nilotic presence in central Sudan many centuries ago. During the Meroitic period (c. 300 B.C.E. to 300 A.D.) the plains between the White Nile and its tributaries were rich corn-growing regions; the most fertile was that between the Blue and White Niles, the Gezira. It was covered with a dense forest of Mimosa thorn and plentiful in rain. In this region 270 kilometers south of present-day Khartoum (at the confluence of the Blue and White Niles) there is archaelogical evidence at Jebel Moya (in the center of the Gezira) of the Nilotic trait of evulsion of the lower teeth practised by 12.8 percent of the males and 18.1 percent of the females. Evulsion, or removal of the lower incisors and sometimes of the upper is a custom practised in the ethnographic present overwhelmingly by all the Western Nilotic people (Dinka, Nuer Shilluk, etc). Lipstuds, another Jebel Moya trait, are also worn by some Nilotic peoples today. More persuasive are a number of archaelogical studies from the Southern Sudan strongly supporting the view that the Dinka culture was not indigenous to this region. (Sudan's Blood Memory: The Legacy of War, Ethnicity, and Slavery in Early South Sudan, Stephanie Beswick)
quote:
...Abialang Dinka Musa Ajak Liol states: "We chased the Funj [the former residents of the Nile/Sobat junction] all the way up to Omutholwi, east of Renk, then up to Parmi now called Gospami, and then chased them all the way to the Ethiopian border, called Jebel Toktok and left them there." It has been fairly well established that during the Nubian period (c. 300-1300 A.D.) a people called the Funj resided near the junction of the Nile and Sobat rivers as well as throughout the Gezira; indeed the Sultanate of the same name emerged in the sixteenth century. Dinka oral histories recount meeting the "Fung" people as they forged south up the Nile. Abialang Dinka Musa Ajak Liol states: "We found Funj in our areas and we fought with them and defeated them."In their travels south the Dinka remember many wars with the Funj which are noted in detail in the next chapter. A number of written accounts suggest the Dinka are closely related to the Nubians. They are derived from the precolonial and colonial Sudanese periods and, at the very least, suggest that the Dinka resided in central Sudan. Early in the eighteenth century two manuscripts (one which claims to date back to 1738 and another by the Northern Sudanese writer Muhammed Walad Dolib the younger, both quote the thesis of the fourteenth-century North African traveller Ibn Khaldun that the Dinka were ancestrally connected to the Danagla (Nubians). (Sudan's Blood Memory: The Legacy of War, Ethnicity, and Slavery in Early South Sudan, Stephanie Beswick)
This chapter suggests that the original homeland of the East African Nilotes is the central Sudan between the Blue and White Niles in the Gezira. The largest of the Western Nilotic peoples in the Sudan today, the Dinka recount histories of migrations from north and south of the confluence of the Blue and White Niles, the modern-day capital of Khartoum, southwards into their present homelands in South Sudan. Thus, evidently, around the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries they were the last Nilotes to leave central Sudan. Emperical evidence in the form of linguistics and archaelogy in both central and Southern Sudan and historical accounts further support the above data. This includes Arab and Nubian geographers and travellers accounts of the eleventh to the thirteenth-century Nubian period along with more recent Northern Sudanese manuscripts and oral histories from the Gezira. As the forefathers of the Dinka migrated out of the central Sudan into their new homelands further south and southwest, however, they faced an onslaught of military resistance. (Sudan's Blood Memory: The Legacy of War, Ethnicity, and Slavery in Early South Sudan, Stephanie Beswick)
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Western historians are still wedded to the project of extricating ancient Egypt from its African context and roots.
Books like 'White Athena: A Critique of Afrocentrist Claims, Volume 2' [2015] still argue that the ancient Egyptians were identical to modern day Egyptians and that the only people that could be considered black in ancient Egypt were the Nubians, and that the Nubians were just slaves, soldiers, musicians and concubines. This is really annoying.
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Before the Naqada period Ancient Egyptians and Kushites came from the same regions in Southern Egypt, Northern Sudan (adding eventually people from the surrounding deserts like Nabta Playa, Cave of Swimmers, who may also have an earlier origin in Sudan). It's only after the Naqada period that those people began to develop their own identity and their own divergent but interrelated history.
From Cultural entanglement at the dawn of the Egyptian history: a View from the Nile First Cataract Region (2014)
CONCLUSIONS
The distinction between an Egyptian and a Nubian identity is something connected to the rise of the Naqada culture in the first half of the fourth millennium BCE. During the previous millennium such a distinction would have not made sense. As previously stated, the Tarifian, Badarian and Tasian cultures of Middle and Upper Egypt have strong ties with rhe Nubian/Nilotic pastoral tradition, as can be inferred, for instance, by the very similar pottery, economy and settlement pattern and by the latest findings in the deserts surrounding the Egyptian Nile valley (Gatto 2011b, 2012a, b, 2013).
We have some neolithic ancient DNA from the Kadruka location in Northern Sudan through the Meroitic era up to the christian era. It's clear from the ancient DNA at Kadruka those people were indigenous Africans not migrants from Eurasia. Eurasians start to appear in significant numbers only in the christian era.
quote:Originally posted by sudaniya: Western historians are still wedded to the project of extricating ancient Egypt from its African context and roots.
Books like 'White Athena: A Critique of Afrocentrist Claims, Volume 2' [2015] still argue that the ancient Egyptians were identical to modern day Egyptians and that the only people that could be considered black in ancient Egypt were the Nubians, and that the Nubians were just slaves, soldiers, musicians and concubines. This is really annoying.
The problem with these books is they attack "Afrocentrism" which is a straw man. They don't address facts, starting with the fact of white racism in anthropology for 300 years. Not to mention the facts of blacks being indigenous to Egypt and still dominating in Upper Egypt to this very day. All they do is try to find any flawed statement or theory by somebody they can call "Afrocentric" and then use that to dismiss everything else, while all the while ignoring all the blatant historical fallacies of white supremacy in anthropology. Not to mention Afrocentrism is not about Egypt it is about Africa as a whole and the fact that everything comes from Africa, as modern biologists have already admitted, with all human DNA originating in Africa. Egypt is just one of the prime examples and pieces of evidence for the fact that human existence that originated in Africa. But these retards will say that biologists and geneticists are Afrocentric and therefore all the genetic facts must be ignored because it goes against white supremacy.
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quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate: Before the Naqada period Ancient Egyptians and Kushites came from the same regions in Southern Egypt, Northern Sudan (adding eventually people from the surrounding deserts like Nabta Playa, Cave of Swimmers, who may also have an earlier origin in Sudan). It's only after the Naqada period that those people began to develop their own identity and their own divergent but interrelated history.
From Cultural entanglement at the dawn of the Egyptian history: a View from the Nile First Cataract Region (2014)
CONCLUSIONS
The distinction between an Egyptian and a Nubian identity is something connected to the rise of the Naqada culture in the first half of the fourth millennium BCE. During the previous millennium such a distinction would have not made sense. As previously stated, the Tarifian, Badarian and Tasian cultures of Middle and Upper Egypt have strong ties with rhe Nubian/Nilotic pastoral tradition, as can be inferred, for instance, by the very similar pottery, economy and settlement pattern and by the latest findings in the deserts surrounding the Egyptian Nile valley (Gatto 2011b, 2012a, b, 2013).
We have some neolithic ancient DNA from the Kadruka location in Northern Sudan through the Meroitic era up to the christian era. It's clear from the ancient DNA at Kadruka those people were indigenous Africans not migrants from Eurasia. Eurasians start to appear in significant numbers only in the christian era.
Of course, in fact Naqada in the Egyptian language is Nubt, which means "Nubia" (place of gold), which makes the Naqadans literally Nubians and that is what these people called themselves. But European Egyptologists play word games with labels to obscure these facts, including "A-Group", "C-Group", "Nubia" etc.
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Thanks for your answers, Doug and Amun-Ra The Ultimate.
Does anybody know what percentage of native Egyptian dynasties came from the South [Upper Egypt]? I know that the majority of Egypt's dynasties came from the South and that Upper Egypt was dominant; the Egyptian State was put together from the South and the majority of the population was concentrated between Aswan and Luxor.
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quote:Originally posted by Doug M: Of course, in fact Naqada in the Egyptian language is Nubt, which means "Nubia" (place of gold), which makes the Naqadans literally Nubians and that is what these people called themselves. But European Egyptologists play word games with labels to obscure these facts, including "A-Group", "C-Group", "Nubia" etc.
Actually, while Naqada was called Nubt and Nub means gold, Nubia was a never a term used by Ancient Egyptians to refer to Kushite people or their territory. It never appeared in any Ancient Egyptian or Kushite text.
Ancient Egyptians used to refer to the Kushite territory and people as Ta-Seti (Land of the Bow) since the Old Kingdom. During the Middle Kingdom (12th Dynasty), the word Kush began to be used alongside Ta-Seti. Nubia, a term often used by modern egyptologists, was first used to refer to people and territory by Strabo a Greek geographer and has no relation to Kush or Ta-Seti. Kush is also a word Kushites used for themselves. King Kashta, of the 25th Kushite Dynasty, is an example (in Africa kings often goes by various names).
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quote:Originally posted by Doug M: Of course, in fact Naqada in the Egyptian language is Nubt, which means "Nubia" (place of gold), which makes the Naqadans literally Nubians and that is what these people called themselves. But European Egyptologists play word games with labels to obscure these facts, including "A-Group", "C-Group", "Nubia" etc.
Actually, while Naqada was called Nubt and Nub means gold, Nubia was a never a term used by Ancient Egyptians to refer to Kushite people or their territory. It never appeared in any Ancient Egyptian or Kushite text.
Ancient Egyptians used to refer to the Kushite territory and people as Ta-Seti (Land of the Bow) since the Old Kingdom. During the Middle Kingdom (12th Dynasty), the word Kush began to be used alongside Ta-Seti. Nubia, a term often used by modern egyptologists, was first used to refer to people and territory by Strabo a Greek geographer and has no relation to Kush or Ta-Seti. Kush is also a word Kushites used for themselves. King Kashta, of the 25th Kushite Dynasty, is an example (in Africa kings often goes by various names).
You are exactly right. However, if you do look at the ancient Egyptian language there was a place called Nubt which was called the city of gold, which would make those people "Nubians". That gold came from Upper Egypt and Sudan in the first place among the populations who lived there who became part of the early nation in KMT.. The Ancient Egyptian deity Set was also called "the Nubti" in the various stele that have been found, as in the case of the year 400 stela from the Ramessid period. Again this evidence points to the Ancient nation of KMT being an extension of ancient black populations in the area coming out of the Sahara and what is now Sudan. Gold was sacred within ancient Egyptian culture and therefore using the word for gold as a reference to foreigners, especially so called 'hated blacks' makes no sense. The point I am making is this is another blow to the fake chronology of Egypt created by Egyptologists and they use word games to cover up the true relationships and facts. In the ancient Egyptian language the Nubians, called the Naqadans by Egyptologists, were basically the same people who founded Ta Seti. Note the Ramessid dynasty is founded by a person named Seti from Nubt who worshipped the Deity Set and was called "Nebty" (meaning from Nubt or Nubian in our language). And he is leading an army of bowmen from Ta Seti. Again, Europeans play games with facts and would tell you that the Ramessids were red heads from Eurasia worshiping Set as a foreign deity.
quote: His Majesty has commanded to raise a great stela in granite for the great name of his fathers, in order to raise the name of the father of his fathers ( and for ) his father the King Men-Ma'at-Re, son of Re, Seti Mer-ne-Ptah lasting for eternity, like Re every day.
Year 400, the fourth month of the season of Shammu, the fourth day of the king of Upper and Lower Egypt, Seth-Great-of-valor, son of Re whom he loves, Nubti [11], beloved by Re-Hor-akhty, may he live for ever.[b] .... [b]The Regent came, the mayor of the town, the vizier, the fanbearer on the right hand of the King [7], the leader of the bowmen, the chief of the archers, the governor of the fortress of Tjarw [8], the great of Medjay [9], the royal scribe, the administrative officer of the chariotry the lord master of the ceremonies of the Feast of the He-goat [10], the master of Smendes, the first prophet of Seth, the lector-priest of Wadjet-Opet-Tawy, the head of all priests of all the gods, Seti, right of voice, son of the Prince regent, the mayor of the town, the vizier, the chief of the archers, the governor of the fortress of Tjarw, the royal scribe, the administrative officer of the chariotry, Paramesse [12], right of voice, born from the mistress of the house, the songstress of Re, Tiw, right of voice, he says :
Petrie was one of the first to discover the Set temple in Nubt:
quote: The temple on the spur of the desert, marked NUBT on Pl. I A, proved to be of Set, from which he was known as Set Nubti. The other town of Nubt, or Ombos, was sacred to Hor-ur and Sebek-ra, and not to Set. Hence it is evident that Set Nubti must rather belong to the Nubt where the figures of Set are found.
quote:Originally posted by sudaniya: Thanks for your answers, Doug and Amun-Ra The Ultimate.
Does anybody know what percentage of native Egyptian dynasties came from the South [Upper Egypt]? I know that the majority of Egypt's dynasties came from the South and that Upper Egypt was dominant; the Egyptian State was put together from the South and the majority of the population was concentrated between Aswan and Luxor.
During what time period was the majority of population concentrated between Aswan and Luxor?
Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Doug M: Of course, in fact Naqada in the Egyptian language is Nubt, which means "Nubia" (place of gold), which makes the Naqadans literally Nubians and that is what these people called themselves. But European Egyptologists play word games with labels to obscure these facts, including "A-Group", "C-Group", "Nubia" etc.
Actually, while Naqada was called Nubt and Nub means gold, Nubia was a never a term used by Ancient Egyptians to refer to Kushite people or their territory. It never appeared in any Ancient Egyptian or Kushite text.
Ancient Egyptians used to refer to the Kushite territory and people as Ta-Seti (Land of the Bow) since the Old Kingdom. During the Middle Kingdom (12th Dynasty), the word Kush began to be used alongside Ta-Seti. Nubia, a term often used by modern egyptologists, was first used to refer to people and territory by Strabo a Greek geographer and has no relation to Kush or Ta-Seti. Kush is also a word Kushites used for themselves. King Kashta, of the 25th Kushite Dynasty, is an example (in Africa kings often goes by various names).
You are exactly right. However, if you do look at the ancient Egyptian language there was a place called Nubt which was called the city of gold, which would make those people "Nubians". That gold came from Upper Egypt and Sudan in the first place among the populations who lived there who became part of the early nation in KMT.. The Ancient Egyptian deity Set was also called "the Nubti" in the various stele that have been found, as in the case of the year 400 stela from the Ramessid period. Again this evidence points to the Ancient nation of KMT being an extension of ancient black populations in the area coming out of the Sahara and what is now Sudan. Gold was sacred within ancient Egyptian culture and therefore using the word for gold as a reference to foreigners, especially so called 'hated blacks' makes no sense. The point I am making is this is another blow to the fake chronology of Egypt created by Egyptologists and they use word games to cover up the true relationships and facts. In the ancient Egyptian language the Nubians, called the Naqadans by Egyptologists, were basically the same people who founded Ta Seti. Note the Ramessid dynasty is founded by a person named Seti from Nubt who worshipped the Deity Set and was called "Nebty" (meaning from Nubt or Nubian in our language). And he is leading an army of bowmen from Ta Seti. Again, Europeans play games with facts and would tell you that the Ramessids were red heads from Eurasia worshiping Set as a foreign deity.
quote: His Majesty has commanded to raise a great stela in granite for the great name of his fathers, in order to raise the name of the father of his fathers ( and for ) his father the King Men-Ma'at-Re, son of Re, Seti Mer-ne-Ptah lasting for eternity, like Re every day.
Year 400, the fourth month of the season of Shammu, the fourth day of the king of Upper and Lower Egypt, Seth-Great-of-valor, son of Re whom he loves, Nubti [11], beloved by Re-Hor-akhty, may he live for ever.[b] .... [b]The Regent came, the mayor of the town, the vizier, the fanbearer on the right hand of the King [7], the leader of the bowmen, the chief of the archers, the governor of the fortress of Tjarw [8], the great of Medjay [9], the royal scribe, the administrative officer of the chariotry the lord master of the ceremonies of the Feast of the He-goat [10], the master of Smendes, the first prophet of Seth, the lector-priest of Wadjet-Opet-Tawy, the head of all priests of all the gods, Seti, right of voice, son of the Prince regent, the mayor of the town, the vizier, the chief of the archers, the governor of the fortress of Tjarw, the royal scribe, the administrative officer of the chariotry, Paramesse [12], right of voice, born from the mistress of the house, the songstress of Re, Tiw, right of voice, he says :
Petrie was one of the first to discover the Set temple in Nubt:
quote: The temple on the spur of the desert, marked NUBT on Pl. I A, proved to be of Set, from which he was known as Set Nubti. The other town of Nubt, or Ombos, was sacred to Hor-ur and Sebek-ra, and not to Set. Hence it is evident that Set Nubti must rather belong to the Nubt where the figures of Set are found.
posted
^^^This is a good point known to most people here interested into the origin of Ancient Egypt. While trading with the outside world was and became very important for the Ancient Egyptian state, we can see the foundation of Ancient Egypt is from the South. Their roots don't lie in the Delta as you would expect from non-indigenous people coming from outside Africa from West Asia. Their roots lies in the Sudan/Egyptian border and surrounding deserts (Nabta Playa, Cave of Swimmers, Cave of the Beasts). Christopher Ehret in "Africa in History" goes even further and says southern Upper Egypt itself was a northern outlier of a wider indigenous African complex which included Kush. Of course the same thing is said by Wengrow, the very subject of this thread as well as many other studies. Kush and Egypt was one culture until just before the foundation of the Ancient Egyptian state. Up until Naqada.
Posts: 2981 | Registered: Jan 2012
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The Naqada region is located to the north of Luxor in Upper Egypt. The settlement of Nubt-South Town is located on the west bank of the Nile halfway between the modern towns of Kom Billal and el-Zawayda and is the most famous and largest settlement in the Naqada region, which consists of a cluster of sites of differing sizes and types (see Fig. 1). Together with Hierakonpolis and Abydos, Nubt-South Town is one of the most important sites for understanding the socio-economic developments that occurred during the Predynastic (Naqada I-II, 3,900-3,300 BC) to Protodynastic (Naqada IIIA-B, 3,300-3,060 BC) periods, and represents one of the primary political centres of early Egypt. As such, it was a major player in the process of state formation (Wilkinson 2000). As the funerary remains cover the entire Predynastic and Protodynastic periods, it is enormously important for both chronological and bioarchaeological studies (Hendrickx 1986).
Petrie uncovered a huge cemetery (N or the Great New Race Cemetery), along with other smaller cemeteries (B and T) and several structures (South Town area) as well as finding indications of Predynastic occupation around the temple area (Nubt area). Subsequent investigations by Kaiser (1961) have identified settlement remains dating to the Predynastic and later along the floodplain edge north of the South Town spur and in front of the Temple spur. He also identified a Predynastic cemetery located just to the north of the temple spur. Re-analyse of Cemetery N, primarily by Bard (1987; 1989; 1994) has allowed for a better understanding of the distribution of early remains at Nubt-South Town (van Wetering & Tassie in press).
--G. J. Tassie (University of Winchester) and Joris van Wetering (ECHO)
The History and Research of the Naqada Region Collection
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