Bayesian analyses of Yemeni mitochondrial genomes suggest multiple migration events with Africa and Western Eurasia2014
Deven Nikunj Vyas , Andrew Kitchen , Aida Teresa Miró-Herrans , Laurel Nichole Pearson , Ali Al-Meeri , Connie Jo Mulligan doi: http://dx.doi.org/10.1101/010629 AbstractInfo/HistoryMetrics Preview PDF Abstract
Anatomically modern humans (AMHs) left Africa ~60,000 years ago, marking the first of multiple dispersal events by AMH between Africa and the Arabian Peninsula. The southern dispersal route (SDR) out of Africa (OOA) posits that early AMHs crossed the Bab el-Mandeb strait from the Horn of Africa into what is now Yemen and followed the coast of the Indian Ocean into eastern Eurasia. If AMHs followed the SDR and left modern descendants in situ, Yemeni populations should retain old autochthonous mitogenome lineages. Alternatively, if AMHs did not follow the SDR or did not leave modern descendants in the region, only young autochthonous lineages will remain as evidence of more recent dispersals. We sequenced 113 whole mitogenomes from multiple Yemeni regions with a focus on haplogroups M, N, and L3(xM,N) as they are considered markers of the initial OOA migrations. We performed Bayesian evolutionary analyses to generate time-measured phylogenies calibrated by Neanderthal and Denisovan mitogenome sequences in order to determine the age of Yemeni-specific clades in our dataset. Our results indicate that the M1, N1, and L3(xM,N) sequences in Yemen are the product of recent migration from Africa and western Eurasia. Although these data suggest that modern Yemeni mitogenomes are not markers of the original OOA migrants, we hypothesize that recent population dynamics may obscure any genetic signature of an ancient SDR migration.
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=========== , Laurel Nichole Pearson , Ali Al-Meeri , Connie Jo Mulligan
AbstractInfo/HistoryMetrics Preview PDF Abstract
Anatomically modern humans (AMHs) left Africa ~60,000 years ago, marking the first of multiple dispersal events by AMH between Africa and the Arabian Peninsula. The southern dispersal route (SDR) out of Africa (OOA) posits that early AMHs crossed the Bab el-Mandeb strait from the Horn of Africa into what is now Yemen and followed the coast of the Indian Ocean into eastern Eurasia. If AMHs followed the SDR and left modern descendants in situ, Yemeni populations should retain old autochthonous mitogenome lineages. Alternatively, if AMHs did not follow the SDR or did not leave modern descendants in the region, only young autochthonous lineages will remain as evidence of more recent dispersals. We sequenced 113 whole mitogenomes from multiple Yemeni regions with a focus on haplogroups M, N, and L3(xM,N) as they are considered markers of the initial OOA migrations. We performed Bayesian evolutionary analyses to generate time-measured phylogenies calibrated by Neanderthal and Denisovan mitogenome sequences in order to determine the age of Yemeni-specific clades in our dataset. Our results indicate that the M1, N1, and L3(xM,N) sequences in Yemen are the product of recent migration from Africa and western Eurasia. Although these data suggest that modern Yemeni mitogenomes are not markers of the original OOA migrants, we HYPOTHESIZE= (BS=Speculate but have no clear evidence)that recent population dynamics may obscure any genetic signature of an ancient SDR migration.
Quote: In our study, we find the oldest monophyletic Yemeni clades, as well as the oldest monophyletic clades of Horn of Africa/Arabian sequences more broadly, in L3x1 with divergence dates of 13.7 kya and 28.9kya, respectively (Table 1). Both of these divergence dates are too young to reflect the initial migration out of Africa. Therefore, it is more likely that this lineage arrived in Yemen via a subsequent migration into the Arabian Peninsula, possibly via the SDR.
============
L3x1 = Africa 28.9kya L3x1 = Yemen 13.7kya
I told you so! I read many papers. There is no empirical evidence of the first AMH humans migrating from Africa through Arabia/Yemen
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posted
It looks like there were at least 3 “major” waves OOA. What is puzzling(or a clue) to me is the TreeMix Map (Pickerell?) with Cambodians. Cambodians have some “recent” African SNP although they are clearly related and are East Asians. So obviously the recent Affrican ancestry in Cambodians is NOT part of the “first” wave since the Pickerell TreeMix has black lines followed by a subsequently “colored” line from Africa to Cambodia. But it is not FROM any specific African population, meaning it is very “basal”.
What am I blabbering about?
I know! I know! Too much information.
@ Lioness - But thanks for the paper. Cheers. I got this …now.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
Hooooly Shyte!!! This is one of the most important and informative papers to come out since the Lazaridis et al paper. I got to give it up to this group of white people. This is the most in-depth study to date to determine the migration route of the first AMH. They used the latest DNA high resolution analysis, covered the ENTIRE mtDNA genome(not only the D-loop, coding region etc. The entire mtDNA genome. Then used a new dating method. In addition pulled samples from the APPROPRIATE surrounding regions as to not bias the results. Great job. Odd thing is no big names were involved but it was an international crew.
But despite all that, being white people, they tried to play the BS mind games. The Paper title is misleading .
What does the author(s) mean by “with”? Ha! Ha! Ha!
Reminds of the work I sometimes need to correct when I am handed stuff to review by sloppy underlings.
Quote: Bayesian analyses of Yemeni mitochondrial genomes suggest multiple migration events with Africa and Western Eurasia - Deven N. Vyas - Oct2014
----- Any newby interested – I will break it down on ESR
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posted
Yes. Southern Arabia is an extension of Sub-Saharan Africa. I knew this already.
But they provided no data that was migration of other HG from "western Eurasia". Unless they are classifying the Levant and Arabia as "western Eurasia". lol!
The word games these people play.
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Yes. Southern Arabia is an extension of Sub-Saharan Africa. I knew this already.
But they provided no data that was migration of other HG from "western Eurasia". Unless they are classifying the Levant and Arabia as "western Eurasia". lol!
The word games these people play.
xyyman would it be correct that the Levant is located in Africa?
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: There is no evidience of AMH migrating through Arabia
1. No genetic evidence 2. No archeological evidence 3. No Anthroplogical evidence
How could Southern Arabia be an extension of Sub-Saharan Africa if there is no evidience of AMH migrating through Arabia
You seem to be wacky plus bonkers
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posted
See my new post in the Andaman thread. I should be paid for this. Lol! Now researchers are jumping on my bandwagon.
Don't you get it? the occupation of Arabia by African is MODERN <15,000y
It seems like the new line of thought is the 2nd and 3rd wave of OOA was through Arabia NOT the initial. Geeeezzz! Are you really that obtuse?!
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posted
Siiiigh! That is my point. The appearance of AMH in Asia/Australia is about 50,000ya that is why "most" researchers made the assumption that it had to be an SDR/Arabian coastal route, even with NO archeological/anthropological evidence in the route. Now in the genetic age there no evidence also forthcoming.
The genetic evidence shows people's that surround the Indian Ocean are genetically related. Even the Australians.
So where does that leave us Watson?
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Siiiigh! That is my point. The appearance of AMH in Asia/Australia is about 50,000ya that is why "most" researchers made the assumption that it had to be an SDR/Arabian coastal route, even with NO archeological/anthropological evidence in the route. Now in the genetic age there no evidence also forthcoming.
The genetic evidence shows people's that surround the Indian Ocean are genetically related. Even the Australians.
So where does that leave us Watson?
xyyman tell us how Central and East Eurasia was populated. The Iranians, the Chinese, Russia etc etc The obvious and most easy route out of africa would be by walking over land right out of Egypt and into the Middle East, no boats necessary
posted
I am really begining to think this Dienekess guy is a raving neurotic lunatic? This was posted on his site this morning. That is probably where the loonies congregate. . Now he agrees with me and DNATribes, ***that Arabia is an extension of Africa. *** Maybe he is reading my stuff on ESR and ES. After posting this stuff he did a 180 later on in his writeup and talks about these nonsensical terms such as Armenoids, Cauacasoids, Proto-Europoids, Hermorhoids etc. Is this guy a clown or what? He just would not give up on the “X-oids and X-pids” lol!
================ Quote by Dienekes the Europoid neurotic :
A new study on the bioRxiv includes data on 69 ancient Europeans (remember when we got excited in anticipation for the single genome of the Iceman? that was only three years ago) and adds plenty of new info to chew on for those of us interested in prehistory.
Two Near Eastern migrations into Europe
In 2011, I observed that West Eurasian populations were too close (measured by Fst) to allow for long periods of differentiation between them. By implication, there must have been a "common source" of ancestry uniting them, which I placed in a "womb of nations" of the Neolithic Near East. I proposed that migrations out of this core area
In Arabia, the migrants would have met aboriginal Arabians, similar to their next door-neighbors in East Africa, undergoing a subtle African shift (Southwest_Asians). In North Africa, they would have encountered denser populations during the favorable conditions of MIS 1, and by absorbing them they would became the Berbers (Northwest_Africans). Their migrations to the southeast brought them into the realm of Indian-leaning people, in the rich agricultural fields of the Mehrgarh and the now deserted oases of Bactria and Margiana. Across the Mediterranean and along the Atlantic facade of Europe, they would have encountered the Mesolithic populations of Europe, and through their blending became the early Neolithic inhabitants of the Mediterranean and Atlantic coasts of Europe (Mediterraneans). And, to the north, from either the Balkans, the Caucasus, or the trans-Caspian region, they would have met the last remaining Proto-Europeoid hunters of the continental zone, becoming the Northern Europeoids who once stretched all the way to the interior of Asia. The new paper confirms the last two of these migrations. The remainder involve parts of the world from which no ancient DNA has been studied.
============= BTW – Anyone has the link on bioRxiv?
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posted
Just so you know. Dienekes just agreed with me and DNATribes that aboriginal Arabians are no different from Africans. He and man others has come around to my point of view. But what the racialist don’t get is that The Neolithic are ALSO Africans. I pointed that out and also DNATribes. This is what the data shows. Some have come to that conclusion already. Many others will also. Stay tuned.
Sighhh! Lucas Martin/DNATribes will be missed.
This is so simple to think through. If what the authors are stating is through that at the beginning of the Holocene a land mass the size of India was subnerged by the sea in the Indian Ocean. The Ocean levels were that low. It is simple logic that Arabia and Africa was ONE land mass. See my thread on ESR. In Arabia Sub-saharans to the South and North Africans to the North. This is not rocket science. It is only about 10 miles of open water currently separating Arabia from Africa. Same goes for Iberia, Italy and Greece. Low sea levels brings lands closer for easy crossing. It all began during the Helocene. This is not rocket science.
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posted
The problem is many of you cannot disconnect from your modern geopolitical taboos. There was no “Europe” or “ Eurasia” 12,000ya. We are projecting of modern prejudices and boundaries. back in time. That is why it is so easy to critique these papers. The author’s prejudices is their flaw.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
xyyman tell us how Central and East Eurasia was populated. The Iranians, the Chinese, Russia etc etc The obvious and most easy route out of africa would be by walking over land right out of Egypt and into the Middle East, no boats necessary, right ?
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: The problem is many of you cannot disconnect from your modern geopolitical taboos. There was no “Europe” or “ Eurasia” 12,000ya. We are projecting of modern prejudices and boundaries. back in time. That is why it is so easy to critique these papers. The author’s prejudices is their flaw.
Not only that, geneticist are so Eurocentric that they don't really look at the archaeology. It is the archaeology that defeat the theories of most population geneticists. For example, South Arabia has always been dominated by Nubians. Yemen has long been an extension of Africa. Lets not forget that the first Nubians entered southern Arabia 106kya. And the earliest civilization in Southwest Arabia which dates back to the 2nd Millenium. was the Tihama culture which originated in Africa . This would explain the regular appearence of SSA genomes in Yemen.
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: [qb] The problem is many of you cannot disconnect from your modern geopolitical taboos. There was no “Europe” or “ Eurasia” 12,000ya. We are projecting of modern prejudices and boundaries. back in time. That is why it is so easy to critique these papers. The author’s prejudices is their flaw.
Not only that,...
Clyde 12,000ya there was no Eurasia ???
Have you gone off the deep end ?
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
quote:Originally posted by xyyman:
the occupation of Arabia by African is MODERN <15,000y
.
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
the first Nubians entered southern Arabia 106kya.
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posted
Please help us raise the bar and attract serious new talent by citing all charts you post. If you edit a chart there's no reason not to include citation with your other markups.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by ausar: [Q] Please help us raise the bar and attract serious new talent by citing all charts you post. If you edit a chart there's no reason not to include citation with your other markups. [/QB]
posted
@ Dr Winters. If you are reading this may be you can enligthen us? Linguistcis not being my thing. It seems like the authors are stating that(some linguist believe) the Indo-European language is also indirectly African, being the Neolithic farmers are Africans. I know you mentioned something like that before.
This is on that new paper by Lazaridis and Haak et al.
======= Quote:
Massive migration from the steppe is a source for Indo-European languages in Europe - Wolfgang Haak1,*, Iosif Lazaridis-2015
The best argument for the “Anatolian hypothesis27” that Indo-European languages arrived in Europe from Anatolia ~8,500 years ago is that major language replacements are thought to require major migrations, and that after the Early Neolithic when farmers established themselves in Europe, the population base was likely to have been so large as to be impervious to subsequent turnover27,28. However, our study shows that a later major turnover did occur, and that steppe migrants replaced ~3/4 of the ancestry of central Europeans. An alternative theory is the “Steppe hypothesis”, which proposes that early Indo- European speakers were pastoralists of the grasslands north of the Black and Caspian Seas, and that their languages spread into Europe after the invention of wheeled vehicles9. Our results make a compelling case for the steppe as a source of at least some of the Indo- European languages in Europe by documenting a massive migration ~4,500 years ago associated with the Yamnaya and Corded Ware cultures, which are identified by proponents of the Steppe hypothesis as vectors for the spread of Indo-European languages into Europe. These results challenge the Anatolian hypothesis by showing that not all Indo-European languages in Europe can plausibly derive from the first farmer migrations thousands of years earlier (SI11).
We caution that the location of the Proto-Indo-European9,27,29,30 homeland that also gave rise to the Indo-European languages of Asia, as well as the Indo-European languages of southeastern Europe, cannot be determined from the data reported here (SI11). Studying the mixture in the Yamnaya themselves, and understanding the genetic relationships among a broader set of ancient and present-day Indo-European speakers, may lead to new insight about the shared homeland.
=====
This paper is not really revealing they are just “repackaging” some of the same stuff from his previous ground breaking paper trying to correlate the Indo-European language with ancient population movement. We still have the same players. WHG, ANE and Neolithics. The new player is Yamnaya culture which is a mixture of neolithics and W(E)HG.
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posted
Other things that stand out from the paper. Are they saying that Southern Europe was an extension of Africa? which was overrun by Northern Barbarians in HISTORICAL times!!! Sounds like Mike is correct.
====== Quote:
This second resurgence must have started during the Late Neolithic/Bronze Age period itself, as the Bell Beaker and Unetice groups had reduced Yamnaya ancestry compared to the earlier Corded Ware, and comparable levels to that in some present-day Europeans (Fig. 3). Today, Yamnaya related ancestry is lower in southern Europe and higher in northern Europe. Further data are needed to determine whether the steppe ancestry arrived in southern Europe at the time of the Late Neolithic / Bronze Age, or is due to migrations in historical times from northern Europe
=======
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: [QB] @ Dr Winters. If you are reading this may be you can enligthen us? Linguistcis not being my thing. It seems like the authors are stating that(some linguist believe) the Indo-European language is also indirectly African,
yes everything is extension of Africa
The terms "Europe" and "Asia" are obsolete they are merely extensions of Africa
you only need to prove it later
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Other things that stand out from the paper. Are they saying that Southern Europe was an extension of Africa? which was overrun by Northern Barbarians in HISTORICAL times!!! Sounds like Mike is correct.
xyyman seems not to have known what Eurasia means. It means the whole landmass Europe + Asia
xyyman seems not to know basic European history of the so called "barbarian invasion" He acts like Mike discovered it and scientist are just finding out about it now
It's as if the alleged high IQ guy dropped out of high school and never read any books
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So can you answer my question? Is Indo-European and African Language family
I thought language and linguistics was you and others thing.
This paper opened my eyes to a few things.
1. I found out the wheel did NOT first appear in the Asian Steppes from which the Kurgan/Indo European hypothesis is based upon. 2. The “root” of the Indo-European language is in Southern Europe ie Greece and Balkan area. Which supports the Neolithic origin of the Indo-European language 3. It seems like , yeah, Neolithic farmers brough the Indo-European language. I am surprised. I always believe (following the scholars), it was from the Steppes. Now?
Oh! Do you really think AMH, 15,000ya cared where Africa ended and Eur-Asia begun? Really? Don’t you get it? That is why I am ignoring your stupid question.
Do you think they were geologist or had border police with “spears” standing guard at Gibraltar and Yemen back then. That is why it is so idiotic the way some studies are conducted and sample locations by these modern Euro researchers. This is so easy. I have come to the conclusion that either they know the truth already and want to prolong Euro dominnance as long as possible or they are really really really incompetent. They will be exposed by other researchers. DNATribes is gone but others will follow.
~ signed high IQ~
Oh! Notice in this paper they left crucial data out. Selectively leaving mtDNA hg-L samples that is prominent throughout Iberia in pre-historic times. Why?
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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Do you think they were geologist or had border police with “spears” standing guard at Gibraltar and Yemen back then.
You ae the one that started placing importants on names of places. If somebody spoke about the Levant everybody would know the loction they were talking about But you inisist insisted it be called part of Africa
And you mention Gibralter and Yemen but seem not to realize that both of those exit points out of Africa locations recquire a water crossing while leaving Africa from Egypt and to the Middle East is simply by walking over land
And you contradict yourself below Above you said therer were no "border police with spears standing guard at Gibraltar and Yemen" Yet eariler you said >>>
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: There is no evidience of AMH migrating through Arabia
1. No genetic evidence 2. No archeological evidence 3. No Anthroplogical evidence
And people who understand basic geography know that when they talk about AMH migrating through Arabia they are talking about the Arabian Peninsula of which Yemen is a part of
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posted
As far as Indo-European being an African language, or deriving from an African language, we have the text by linguist Dr. GJK Campbell-Dunn that argues just a thing. He posits that it derives from "Niger-Congo."
A more recent study by Jean-Claude Mboli also suggest that Indo-European derives, at least in part, from African languages: i.e., the Negro-Egyptian language family. He also argues that Indo-European is closer to Post-Classic Negro-Egyptian than is Semitic, which originates in the Levant (see paper by Christopher Ehret which supports Mboli).
We have two independent scholars of linguistics who supports this theory with actual linguistic analyses. You also have the Nostratic Theory where it is argued that Indo-European derived from "Afro-Asiatic" (see Bernal 2006: Black Athena: The Linguistic Evidence, VOl. III). Even from the standpoint of the Nostraticists, Indo-European comes out of African languages. However, linguists such as Allan Bomhard believes that Afro-Asiatic (which we know doesn't exist) originated in "Asia" and diffused into Africa proper. Without his obvious flaws, we can see that the connection between Indo-European and African languages has a firm foundation in the literature. It's just that many people have yet to catch up.
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posted
Xyyman, you're not going to comment on how dates for Yemeni L3b and L3d lineages relate to your recent discussion with Manu, re: the presence of Niger-Congo-like ancestry in Yemen?
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posted
That is a given. I am sure Manu is lurking. Manu's argument was L presence was due to slavery due to what he "read". On the other hand other research suggested the presence of L BEFORE the supposed "slavery". This paper sugest there was "some" demographic movement through slavery BUT if you look at that dataset it is not clear cut. They seem indecisive with the dating, suggesting >2500years!!!! of slavery. Really? Why are they expanding the period of "documented" slavery. So , yes, I did see the authors comments.
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posted
You do realize this study put the brake on that discussion with AMRTU and Pagani study?
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posted
I never took an African origin of the Indo-European seriously. I know Dr. Winters proposed this sometime back. After reading this paper we may need to at that hypothesis seriously.
"We always wait on the white man for affirmation" sic
quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: As far as Indo-European being an African language, or deriving from an African language, we have the text by linguist Dr. GJK Campbell-Dunn that argues just a thing. He posits that it derives from "Niger-Congo."
A more recent study by Jean-Claude Mboli also suggest that Indo-European derives, at least in part, from African languages: i.e., the Negro-Egyptian language family. He also argues that Indo-European is closer to Post-Classic Negro-Egyptian than is Semitic, which originates in the Levant (see paper by Christopher Ehret which supports Mboli).
We have two independent scholars of linguistics who supports this theory with actual linguistic analyses. You also have the Nostratic Theory where it is argued that Indo-European derived from "Afro-Asiatic" (see Bernal 2006: Black Athena: The Linguistic Evidence, VOl. III). Even from the standpoint of the Nostraticists, Indo-European comes out of African languages. However, linguists such as Allan Bomhard believes that Afro-Asiatic (which we know doesn't exist) originated in "Asia" and diffused into Africa proper. Without his obvious flaws, we can see that the connection between Indo-European and African languages has a firm foundation in the literature. It's just that many people have yet to catch up.
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posted
To those who did not follow my reply. Clearly Africans were in Southern Arabia since the Holocene based on the high resolution analysis and dating technique used by these researchers
But for some markers, I am not an expert on what is “documented” in “history” books but iirc the Yemen/African slavery supposedly took place a couple of hundred years around the 16th century AD. This author is suggesting that it is closer >2500years of documented slavery. I don’t think so!!!! He probably observed specific markers that he dated to 500BC and extended that eperiod of supposed slavery(wink).
==== Quotes:
2009). Notably, our study represents the most comprehensive analysis of whole mitogenome data from the ancient mitochondrial haplogroups in southern Arabia. We combine our 113 mitogenomes with 338 previously published mitogenomes from surrounding regions and beyond to provide the most comprehensive test yet of the SDR based on local mitochondrial variation. Specifically, we explore whether subsets of Yemeni, Horn of Africa, and Arabian mitogenomes cluster in monophyletic clades that exhibit ancient divergence dates, which are predicted given an ancient dispersal along the SDR
likely reflects female-mediated migration from sub-Saharan Africa via the Arab slave trade over the last ~2,500 years (Table 2). Richards et al. (2003) reasoned that the high frequency of African mitochondrial L lineages in Yemen is the product of female-mediated migration from sub-Saharan Africa via the Arab slave trade. =======
I guess the “Arabs” love their Sub-Saharans black women so much they were lining them up for 2500years!!!! Black pussy is sweet but, I DON”T THINK SO! Lol!
They need to come up with a better hypothesis than that. Any brotha knows it is difficult to enslave a black woman than a black man.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: [qb] The problem is many of you cannot disconnect from your modern geopolitical taboos. There was no “Europe” or “ Eurasia” 12,000ya. We are projecting of modern prejudices and boundaries. back in time. That is why it is so easy to critique these papers. The author’s prejudices is their flaw.
Not only that,...
Clyde 12,000ya there was no Eurasia ???
Have you gone off the deep end ?
You're silly. Eurasia is just the name of a geographical area.
posted
We should also keep in mind that Mboli (2010) suggested that Proto-Indo-European came about as a result of 3 migrations out of Africa. These three migrations brought with them 3 distinct dialects of the grander Negro-Egyptian language family. These merged (with some other indigenous language) and it became I-E. This makes sense using the punctuated equilibrium approach to explain contact situations as expressed by the linguist R.M.W. Dixon (The Rise and Fall of Languages (1997)), which Mboli draws heavily from. In this case, the genetic data and linguistic data from the African school of linguistics appear to support each other.
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From what I recall, he only rejected prehistoric Niger-Congo-like ancestry (not Omotic, and Cushitic mtDNA L types).The dates provided for Yemeni L3b and L3d suggest otherwise. Missed that specific point in your discussion.
Go get em. You got this!!
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Good morning to you too.
So can you answer my question? Is Indo-European and African Language family
I thought language and linguistics was you and others thing.
This paper opened my eyes to a few things.
1. I found out the wheel did NOT first appear in the Asian Steppes from which the Kurgan/Indo European hypothesis is based upon. 2. The “root” of the Indo-European language is in Southern Europe ie Greece and Balkan area. Which supports the Neolithic origin of the Indo-European language 3. It seems like , yeah, Neolithic farmers brough the Indo-European language. I am surprised. I always believe (following the scholars), it was from the Steppes. Now?
Oh! Do you really think AMH, 15,000ya cared where Africa ended and Eur-Asia begun? Really? Don’t you get it? That is why I am ignoring your stupid question.
Do you think they were geologist or had border police with “spears” standing guard at Gibraltar and Yemen back then. That is why it is so idiotic the way some studies are conducted and sample locations by these modern Euro researchers. This is so easy. I have come to the conclusion that either they know the truth already and want to prolong Euro dominnance as long as possible or they are really really really incompetent. They will be exposed by other researchers. DNATribes is gone but others will follow.
~ signed high IQ~
Oh! Notice in this paper they left crucial data out. Selectively leaving mtDNA hg-L samples that is prominent throughout Iberia in pre-historic times. Why?
It is very difficult to discuss Indo-European mainly because of the fact the language does not really exist. This results from the fact that the language that unites IE is Greek. And the reason that Greek you unites these languages is because of the fact Greek was spoken across Western Eurasia, and Indo-Pakistan, even before Alexander the Great. It was the Persians who first deposited Greeks in Indo-Pakistan region. Because they lived in the area when Panini wrote his grammar of Sanskrit, it includes many Greek items, because Sanskrit was a lingua franca. I explain this phenomena in the article below:
Finally, the Proto-I-E speakers practiced a nomadic culture. When they entered Europe, there were already African groups who were agro-pastoral. That means that Europeans learned about farming and raising cattle from the Blacks who were already here. As a result, many I-E cultural terms will be of African origin.
quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: We should also keep in mind that Mboli (2010) suggested that Proto-Indo-European came about as a result of 3 migrations out of Africa. These three migrations brought with them 3 distinct dialects of the grander Negro-Egyptian language family. These merged (with some other indigenous language) and it became I-E. This makes sense using the punctuated equilibrium approach to explain contact situations as expressed by the linguist R.M.W. Dixon (The Rise and Fall of Languages (1997)), which Mboli draws heavily from. In this case, the genetic data and linguistic data from the African school of linguistics appear to support each other.
"punctuated equilibrium" is just a term biologist created because they could not find the "missing link". As a result, "punctuated equilibrium" is just a term Europeans use when they can't explain a phenomena.
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XYZ said: I told you so! I read many papers. There is no empirical evidence of the first AMH humans migrating from Africa through Arabia/Yemen
So you favor the Northern Dispersal route via the Nile?
xyz says: 1. I found out the wheel did NOT first appear in the Asian Steppes from which the Kurgan/Indo European hypothesis is based upon.
^What's your alternative scenario for the wheel and citation?
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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look he does't have alternative scenarios He just shoots down stuff and makes it up as he goes along
Posts: 42921 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Quote: === An alternative theory is the “Steppe hypothesis”, which proposes that early Indo- European speakers were pastoralists of the grasslands north of the Black and Caspian Seas, and that their languages spread into Europe ***after*** the invention of wheeled vehicles
NW Pontic steppes a wider range of people was buried under kurgans); the burial of wheels or whole wagons above or beside elite graves;
languages20. If this reconstruction is right, Proto-Indo-European could not have been the language spread by the first farmers moving into Europe, as wheels and wheeled vehicles were only invented thousands of years after the spread of farming. While the earliest finds of wheels are ****NOT*** from the steppe21,
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Read reference source #21.
The wheel is NOT a Kurgan invention. Which the Kurgan steppe hypothesis is based upon. Yeah! I shoot Bull Shyte down stuff!!!.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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"when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth"
There is no evidence in Arabia of AMH existing through there.
Yes. AMH was in the Java region ~40,000ya. how did he get there?
Apparently it was NOT through Arabia. The Anthroplogical and genetic evidence shows that Arabia was occupied by Africans around the Helocence and by that time AMH was already in the Java region.
What do YOU think?
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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"when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth"
xyyman always assumes this yet when somebody asks him what remains often nothing remains It's because he routinely labels possible things as impossible
Posts: 42921 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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"when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth"
But even more to the point, when xyyman "eliminates the impossible" if anything were to remain he wouldn't notice it beacause his focus is on eliminating for it's own sake. So he's sort of like anthropological prune juice
He got this
Posts: 42921 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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I'm so sorry Lioness but your thread has progressively gone more and more AE.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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