posted
Look into who Bilal was before put your head in the sand
Secondly the Umayyads 661–750, the second of the four major Islamic caliphates, who employed berbers to help invade Spain were based in Syria
Or simply refer directly to Ibn Khaldūn and other primary sources
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Agreed that first sentence is bizare for Hunwick especially since it takes no research to know the first slaves of Arabs had to be other surrounding Arabs.
Nonetheless I wouldn't dismiss the article out of hand because Hunwick is the author there is bound to be very useful info in it.
Each reader should interpret the info as per their own studies and background.
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posted
^^^ This fake lying caption should be deleted, To attempt to deceive people by creating something with a printed text can only confuse and mislead people about history
Everything above is correct except that Mike has added
" (the seated Black man) " and in doing so has changed the proper identities of the characters in the story
That is not in the original text. It is a 100 % LIE
As he white washes the fact that Europeans had enslaved Africans (which in normal circles is an indictment of them) Here he does the same thing with these Arabs
Listen,
In the above scene Al-Harith is not seated
He is the man standing at the far right
As the story goes At left disguised with a veil is Abu Zayd and he is pretending to sell his son Joseph to Al-Harith
That is why he veiled Abu Zayd and his son on the letft are looking upward at Al-Harith at right who is taller and is standing.
Again
That is why he veiled Abu Zayd and his son on the left are looking upward at Al-Harith at right who is taller and is standing.
The unidentified black people sitting are not wearing Arabian turbans like ALL the other figures and are not characters in the story
xyyman you know better because this picture has been discussed before
Yet you are helping to promote one of Mikes lies.
At least leave that in AE not in Egyptology forum
Note above is identified as
Folio 105 d 1122 Maqamat of al-Hariri
The Arabs enslaved people of all complexions, we already knew that and he don't need these alterations of the primary sources
And as shown in the above Hunwick essay some Arabs historically made disparaging remarks about both non-Muslim Africans and Europeans
This is what happens when you do your own research, you understand context
Without it you become a foolish dupe for Mike unwittingly promoting his falcifications, falling for the bait and switch
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
We deconstructed Mike's aka RealHistory.com perversion on EgyptSearch years ago. Doesn't anybody remember?
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Look into who Bilal was before put your head in the sand
Secondly the Umayyads 661–750, the second of the four major Islamic caliphates, who employed berbers to help invade Spain were based in Syria
Or simply refer directly to Ibn Khaldūn and other primary sources
So, who was Bilal before?
And berbers (presieved as light skin [white], by westerns) were employed. Yet, anyone with dark skin was a slave?
Archeology and anthropology support differently.
On your dispute with Mike, Turks call blacks Arabs. There is a reason for this. They know their history very well, when it comes to Arabs.
quote:there are black tribes among the Arabs, such as the Banu Sulaim bin Mansur, and that all the peoples settled in the Harra, besides the Banu Sulaim are black.
--Al-Jahiz (776-869): Al-Fakhar al-Sudan min al-Abyadh (Superiority Of The Blacks To The Whites)
The population of Algeria is 35,190,000 (January 2009 est.), with 99% classified ethnically as Arab or Berber. About 90% of Algerians live in the northern, coastal area; the minority who inhabit the Sahara are mainly concentrated in oases, although some 1.5 million remain nomadic or partly nomadic. Almost 30% of Algerians are under the age of 15. Algeria has the fourth lowest fertility rate in the Greater Middle East, after those of Cyprus, Tunisia, and Turkey.
The ethnic ancestry of most Algerians is composed of Berbers (mostly Zenatas and Numidians) and Middle-East populations who settled Northwest Africa at various period of the history such as ancient Punics and Arabs (such as Banu Hilal tribes)."
Wesley Muhammad did speak on the topic of the whitening by populations from the North of the Arabian Peninsula. Into the South. In order to understand the paper by Hunwick, we need to study the history of the region and islam.
Abyaḍ and the Black Arabs Some Clarifications Wesley Muhammad, PhD
quote: This paper argues that a convergence of evidences – linguistic, ethnographic, and literary – suggests that the earliest documented Arabs were likely a Kushite or dark-skinned group, probably derivative from a group of African ‘Proto-Semitic’ speakers that possibly entered the Levant from Africa several millennia before the Common Era.
posted
Are you for real? LOL! deceiving people by translating a foreign language for readers. really?
This pic is used by racialist to depict blacks as slaves in Arabia.
It was only after that discussion I realized it shows blacks BUYING slaves.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: To attempt to deceive people by translating something with a printed text can only confuse and mislead people about history. HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Are you for real? LOL! deceiving people by translating a foreign language for readers. really?
This pic is used by racialist to depict blacks as slaves in Arabia.
It was only after that discussion I realized it shows blacks BUYING slaves.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: To attempt to deceive people by translating something with a printed text can only confuse and mislead people about history. HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: [QB] Are you for real? LOL! deceiving people by translating a foreign language for readers. really?
This pic is used by racialist to depict blacks as slaves in Arabia.
There were slaves both black, white and other in Arabia at the time.
What you agian fail to realize is that instead of just traslating the text Mike has puposely misidentified the character in the story Al-Harith as one of the black people in the scene.
It's called "bait and switch"
You took the bait which blind you to the switch. That makes you the sucker I'm afriad
Mike does this sort of thing all the time. He gives you something you want and then at the same time makes changes. It's corrupting history.
What can be said of the scene is that in a market place there is a light skinned Arab child being sold to another light skinned Arab standing at right by the name of Al-Harith. and that the black people in the scene might be slaves or they might not be so one cannot comment. They are not depicted as Arabs here because they have no turbans like the other people.
So to clarify the situation is not to explain the text of the story and then at the same time change the identity of one of the characters into a black person.
Mike does a similar thing with European paintings. He claims that a person depicted is someone else and chumps like you who don't know any better fall for it
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(Ignoring the translation) the illustration is clear ….now. When I first saw it, I, like many other blacks had a knee jerk expectation and assumed, yes, the blacks are being sold. But afte rthe “translation’ and taking a deeper look it is as clear as…well….what is going on in the scene.
1. undoubtedly the small person is being sold and held by the arm by the guy in the “turban”. Turk? 2. The “main’ Turk :guy is doing his sale pitch. 3. The two guys at the back with the scale are “counting’ the money. 4. Obviously these guys in Turban guys are travellers. ie non-locals. 5. The two black guys are “checking out” the merchandized and signalling how much they want to pay. 6. The guy in the top left is either counter bidding or telling the “seller” or the “money counters’’ what the price is up to. 7. The “turks’ are dressed differently (as a group) so obviously they are non-locals. 8. The blacks are relaxed and “chilling”. They are at home. They are locals.
Black are indigenous to Arabia /Yemen. I know that now. I am not fooled by stereo types as seen on TV. In fact I just came across study(2015) showing a branch of “African” yDNA hg-E unique to Central Asia, Europe and Iran. Yeah, E2a go figure. High resolution analysis shows there are unique branch of E2a found in Eurasia
I got this!
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posted
Just to be clear, if you read and understood what I wrote. I am not agreeing that Abu Sayd is seated. But obviously the blacks guys are buying the “product”….. in Yemen. And the Turban guys are travellers and is trying to sell the small person.
Now…if the depiction matches the translation the only person that could be “mesmerize” is one of the seated black guys since the “seller “ already owns the small person.
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posted
Also. Is that a "halo" around the head of one of the seated black guys? If it is, then, isn't that symbolic of sainthood, spiritual, reincarnation, taking on a new body.
So Mike may be correct ....on this one. Abu Sayd IS that black guy.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: [Q Whether the blacks in the picture are slaves or not, Dana has made it clear long time ago that the folks portrayed in the pictures are not even true Arabs but light-skinned northern folks who were 'Arabized' or Islamicized. Even the artwork itself is not Arab since pictures of living things are forbidden in Islam but Turkic in style. [/QB]
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Thanks for a source everyone can go read the full context.
I haven't found a one stop shop for the miniature paintings in many editions of al~Hariri yet.
When I do will post three more imgs of al~Harith which the one claiming to ID him should have conclusively done to clinch his case.
Xyyman sent us off topic having us focus on RealHistoryWW.com when we should be critiquing Hunwicks's article where we just might learn something other than sleight of hand like a book was written to explain one of its illustrations. Whoooboy. HaHAAAha what a hoot.
I truly never knew so many deep down inside still are in pain and denial over slavery so much as to prefer fantasies over reality.
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quote:The Arabs had black Africans living among them from before the days of Islam—mainly,it would appear as slaves.
This so called scholar need to read Drusilla Dunjee Houston 's Wonderful Ethiopian. This paper is another black = slaves garbage. The story of Arab people is the story of all mullatto people on this planet: from a Black skinned people to a light/brown skinned people who have forgotten it's roots.
^^Bani Malik children, Saudi Arabia circa. 1930
quote:Malik Al-Ashtar (Arabic: مالك الأشتر) (also known as Malik bin al-Harith al-Nakha'i) was one of the most loyal companions of Ali Ibn Abi Talib, the cousin of the Islamic prophet Muhammad. Malik al-Ashtar became a Muslim during the time of Muhammad. And since then, he constantly tried to purify his soul while being a good Muslim. His hunger for purification rose him to a position of prominence during the caliphate of Ali Ibn Abi Talib. He participated in several battles, such as the Battle of Jamal and Siffin. However, he is recognized for his pious and humble nature, as well as his fierce and steadfast defense for Islam in battle.
(Abou Mohammad al-Qāsim ibn ‛Ali ibn Mohammad ibn ‛Ali al-Hariri al-Basri) Copied and illustrated by Yahya ibn Mahmud al-Wasti Bibliothčque nationale de France, manuscript Arabe 5847, 1237AD
__________________________________________
In the book and at the above link are many pictures of Abu Zayd and Al-Harith
Here's one
^^^ As the title indicates, Abu Zayd (left) and Al-Harith (right)
Now, another page from the same book, the following one we have been discussing -minus Mike's corrupted yellow caption he posted on his world history website
^^^ Abu Zayd again at left disguised in veil ( corresponding to the story) And Al-Harith, standing at right
This issue is very simple because if you actually look at the book Abu Zayd and Al-Harith are light skinned figures with turbans and that corresponds with many other pictures of then in the same book. In the story Abu Zayd is disguised in a veil and is pretending to sell his son as a trick against Al-Harith
It is extremely easy to see that Abu Zayd and Al-Harith cannot be the black people sitting down and that both of them are depicted numerous times in other illustartiosn from the same book And you didn't even pay attention to Mike's false claim about the black seated figure. He said it was Al-Harith not Abu Zayd. The people operating the market are the other light skinned figures on the higher teir with the scales
So you have no idea what you are talking about
so let's move on by returning to the PDF in the intital post and in particular quotes by Arab scholars of antiquity there
quote: "...But what is really strange is that there is a family like the Family of the Noble Fulaita who say that they are the descendants of Husain the son of Fulaita the son of the ruler of Mecca (a descendant of Ali ibn Abi Taalib) who died in 527 A.H. And from that time (since nine centuries ago) they still live in Mecca in Wadi Fatima. In other words, they never at any time immigrated to Africa, for example, and returned to Mecca. No. On the contrary, they are people of the Haram (Sacred Land), people of Wadi Fatima, Mecca from that time until now. And the strange thing is that the Noble Fulaita are the only tribe in the Hijaz that all members of the tribe have the physical characteristics of a tribe coming from the center of Africa. All of the members of this tribe have black skin, wide noses, and thick lips - except for a minority of them and even the minority of them who don't, you will find that they too have an appearance close to an African appearance, differing from the appearance of the other Ashraaf (descendants of the Prophet (SAWS)) of the Hijaz."
لكن ماهو مستغرب حقيقة أن تكون هناك أسرة مثل سادة فليتة وهم الذين يقولون بأنهم أبناء حسين بن فليتة ابن حاكم مكة الذي توفي 527 هـ وأنهم من ذلك التاريخ (منذ تسعة قرون) وهم مازالوا يسكنون مكة ووادي فاطمة أي أنهم لم يهاجروا في وقت من الأوقات إلى أفريقيا مثلا ثم قدموا بعد ذلك. لا وإنما هم أهل الحرم أهل مكة ووادي فاطمة منذ ذلك الزمان الى وقتنا المعاصر، والغريب أن سادة فليتة القبيلة الوحيدة في الحجاز (والتي قد تكون أمثولة في علم الأجناس البشرية) التي جميع أفرادها يحملون سمات وصفات القبائل القادمة من وسط أفريقيا فجميع هذه القبيلة من ذوي البشرة السوداء ذوي أنوف عريضة وشفتين غليظة إلا ماندر وحتى من ندر منهم تجده لا يبتعد كثيرا عن السمات والصفات الأفريقية، مخالفين بذلك سمات وصفات أشراف الحجاز الآخرون
"And I thought that he'll look askance at me and raise the price on me but he didn't He said ' when the his price for a slave is low and his provision is light, then his lord will be blessed by him' And I keep trying to make you love this kid by lowering his price, so weigh 200 Dirhams if you wish and thank me as long as you live, so I gave him the money right away as a cheap thing given away for the precious thing "
Then he allayed my anger by his poetry, and captivated my heart by his sorcery, so that I was too bewildered to perceive the truth, and made oblivious of the story of Joseph the faithful, and I concerned myself only with asking his master's charge for him, and inquiring after the amount of his price, so that I might pay it in full. Now I thought he would look askance at me and demand from me a high sum, but he did not soar whither I had soared, nor held he on to that to which I held on, nay, on the contrary he said : " Here is the boy ! if the price is low, and his keep but slight, his master thinks himself blessed in him and loves him all the better for it, and I wish above all to make thee fond of the lad by lightening to thee the price for him ; so weigh out two hundred dirhems if thou wilt, and be thankful to me as long as thou livest." So I paid him the amount at once, as the lawful price is paid in a cheap bargain, and it occurred not to my mind that everyone who sells cheap, makes one pay dear.
_______________________________
(Later in the same story>>)
70 THIRTY-FOURTH ASSEMBLY,
And sayest who sells a free-born man, as a nigger is sold or a dusky nag,
Al-Ḥarīrī ...and government official who is primarily known for the refined style and wit of his collection of tales, the Maqāmāt, published in English as The Assemblies of al-Harîrî (1867, 1898).
ILLUSTRATION BY
Baghdad school
The miniatures made to illustrate manuscripts of the Maqāmāt of al-Ḥarīrī, between 1225 and the fall of the city to the Mongols in 1258, were among the finest works in all Arab painting; the finest, most complete, and best-preserved of these manuscripts is that in the collection of the Bibliothčque Nationale of Paris, dated 1237.
Yaḥyā ibn Maḥmūd al-Wāsiṭī
About 1237 he illustrated the Maqāmāt (“Assemblies”) of al-Ḥarīrī, a series of anecdotes concerning the picaresque adventures of an eloquent 12th-century Arab rogue, a work that was highly popular at this period. The 96 illustrations are of outstanding quality with fine composition, expressive figures, and vivid but controlled colours. They...
place in Islamic literature
Islamic arts: Development of literary prose
...(died 1008). Its master, however, was al-Ḥarīrī (died 1122), postmaster (head of the intelligence service) at Basra and an accomplished writer on grammatical subjects. His 50 maqāmahs, which tell the adventures of Abū Zayd al-Sarūjī, with a wealth of language and learning, come closer to the Western concept...
Islamic arts: Modern criticism
...to compare it with the compositions of Greek and Latin poetry. The verbal ingenuity of al-Ḥarīrī’s 11th-century Maqāmāt (published in English as The Assemblies of al-Harīrī) attracted the European scholars, who took great pleasure in disentangling the grammatically difficult forms. Pre-Islamic poetry at first interested...
posted
Book of a lifetime: The Assemblies, By Al-Hariri of Basra
quote: When I was a young boy growing up in rural Pakistan, my grandfather would entertain me with stories of a man called Abu Zayd. He was a rascal who roamed from place to place conning people with his wit and stunning use of language. Each story began with Abu Zayd giving an eloquent sermon in the mosque or the bazaar. "How long will you persist with your folly?" he would ask the people who gathered around him. "How long will you cheat, steal, and do and eat all those things that God has forbidden? How long will you be greedy and chase material goods?" He never failed to impress, both by his message and his oratory; some gave him money and thanked him, others he would cheat. But Abu Zayd lived a life of luxury in a cave, with his two wives, where he greedily consumed forbidden things and did exactly what he had denounced in the bazaar.
Years later, I realised that my grandfather was retelling the stories from The Assemblies of al-Hariri. It is, without doubt, the most celebrated literary work in Arabic. Written during the 11th century, it consists of 50 "encounters" or short stories, each with a particular moral. Narrated by Harith Hammam, an admirer of Abu Zayd, the stories mix words from the Qur'an, well-known proverbs and phrases, and classical poems and put them into the mouths of characters.
Hammam meets Abu Zayd in far off places like Baghdad and Alexandria, Shiraz and Samarkand, disguised as a blind old beggar, a lazy husband taken to the court by his wife, or a stranger who arrives just in time for a good meal. Hammam pays dearly for each encounter just as each story inevitably leads to a deeper question. A number of stories explore the nature of fate and the issue of ends and means. In one story, Abu Zayd cons a number of wealthy people pleading abject poverty and in urgent need to bury a "shrouded corpse". When he is caught and asked to show the corpse, he points to himself. In another story, an Arab finds a sheep in the desert. Wishing to kill it for food, he can find nothing to slaughter it till the sheep begins to scrape the ground and uncovers a buried knife.
But The Assemblies is not just a compendium of moral tales. It is more about use of language and word-play, and is designed to teach the rules of grammar, rhetoric and poetry. That is why it has been the subject of countless commentaries. Al-Hariri, who gets his name from the fact that he was a wealthy trader in silk (harir), was an exceptionally ugly man. When his visitors were taken aback by his look, he would tell them: "I am a man to be heard, not seen". The Assemblies were written to be read aloud. And added to and expanded so the readers could make the stories their own.
Which is precisely what my grandfather did. Both men made me what I am today.
Ziauddin Sardar's 'Balti Britain' is published by Granta; he will be speaking at the 'Independent' Woodstock Literary Festival, Sunday 12 October at 2.30pm
posted
Now in conclusion. Demystification part II.
quote: Because of the Arab script used by peoples of Iraq, historians are inclined to call the people depicted herein "Arabs". A Baghdadi named Yahya ibn Mahmud painted this group of people of obviously Turkman or Turkoman origins, probably his own people then in control of Iraq and Syria. This is the Abbasid period when people of Turkish and Turko-Persian origin had taken over control the former Arab caliphate of the Ummayads. As is obvious from the painting the people depicted probably have of Turkoman or "Mongol" origin in Central Asia. From the Turkoman rulers of Central Asia issued many of the early Moguls of India and Shahs of Persia and the ruling class of the Abbasids, former slave-soldiers of the Arabs.
[...]
The above painting of a slave market in Zabid in Yemen was produced in Iraq by the same person that painted the one above it. It may suggest many people north of Arabia including Yahyah, the painter himself, didn't know what Arabians looked like, or else it may have been meant to reflect the Persian presence in the region of Yemen.
FEAR OF BLACKNESS SERIES: Guide to the Ethnic Origins of the "Infernal" and “Black Saracen”
End of Baghdad Glory and Break Down of Urban Life.
Mongol and Turkic Impact on Iraq
Arab-Muslim conquests of Iraq in the 7th century brought a new order and culture to Iraq, which was preserved during the Seljuk Turk era. Even though the Mongols converted to Islam, they largely destroyed the order and stability of Western Asia, Iraq included. Cities and institutions were decimated, and populations reduced in brutal fashion. Baghdad was a shining beacon for the Muslim world for 500 years before the Mongol invasions. After being almost completely demolished, it remained a dilapidated outpost throughout the duration of Mongol Rule. The Mongol era in particular served as a dark ages of sorts for the Middle East, as architectural and academic prowess came to a halt. The effect proved to be long term and devastating, as Iraq would never fully recover. It remained a disorderly province of the Ottoman Empire for four centuries, enabling the British to take control after WWI. Even after shedding British rule in 1958, Iraq would remain vulnerable to instability and repressive, authoritarian rule. The Mongols and Turks had little genetic impact on Iraqis, suggesting minimal intermixing of the ruling class with the general population.
quote:The Arab scholars distinguish Arabians as descending from two different stocks: the "original" Arabs ('aribah), whose forefather was Qahtan -Yoqtan- and are the Yemenite group of tribes, and the "arabized" peoples of the north (musta'aribah), whose forefather is said to be Adnan, allegedly an Ishmaelite.
quote:there are black tribes among the Arabs, such as the Banu Sulaim bin Mansur, and that all the peoples settled in the Harra, besides the Banu Sulaimare black.
--Al-Jahiz (776-869): Al-Fakhar al-Sudan min al-Abyadh (Superiority Of The Blacks To The Whites)
quote: This paper argues that a convergence of evidences – linguistic, ethnographic, and literary – suggests that the earliest documented Arabs were likely a Kushite or dark-skinned group, probably derivative from a group of African ‘Proto-Semitic’ speakers that possibly entered the Levant from Africa several millennia before the Common Era.
posted
Thanks. TP and Lioness. Just copied and posted on ESR. It is easier to research and store stuff there.
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Then he allayed my anger by his poetry, and captivated my heart by his sorcery, so that I was too bewildered to perceive the truth, and made oblivious of the story of Joseph the faithful, and I concerned myself only with asking his master's charge for him, and inquiring after the amount of his price, so that I might pay it in full. Now I thought he would look askance at me and demand from me a high sum, but he did not soar whither I had soared, nor held he on to that to which I held on, nay, on the contrary he said : " Here is the boy ! if the price is low, and his keep but slight, his master thinks himself blessed in him and loves him all the better for it, and I wish above all to make thee fond of the lad by lightening to thee the price for him ; so weigh out two hundred dirhems if thou wilt, and be thankful to me as long as thou livest." So I paid him the amount at once, as the lawful price is paid in a cheap bargain, and it occurred not to my mind that everyone who sells cheap, makes one pay dear.
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor: [...]
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let us know when your horse steps out of the gate
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Please Xyy don't act like I didn't school you over on ESR
It's you's the bullshitter.
At best the seated man whose feet touch the ground is a salesman employed by the market.
The text mentions no middleman brokering Abu Zayd's deal. The text does mention al~Harith in 'conference' with slave dealers specifying characteristics he'll buy. None of them could supply.
Perhaps in this miniature painting the artist has conflated both events.
Scenario: * al~Harith specifies what he wants to * the salesmen who points out * Abu Zayd has the perfect specimen
The translation from which you just posted is clear that Abu Zayd is the one doing the talking about the slaveboy, in fact his own son, to flimflam desperate al~Harith out of some chump change.
Of course the only reason you keep running this painting on and on is you are incapable of critiquing Hunwick's article, this thread's topic, and know nothing about the sources that teach us about the Islamic Arabs/Civilization and its views of colour and temperment of the various peoples within it or in contact with it.
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quote:The Arab scholars distinguish Arabians as descending from two different stocks: the "original" Arabs ('aribah), whose forefather was Qahtan -Yoqtan- and are the Yemenite group of tribes, and the "arabized" peoples of the north (musta'aribah), whose forefather is said to be Adnan, allegedly an Ishmaelite.
quote: According to Arab genealogical tradition, the Adnanites are "Arabized Arabs", descended from Adnan.[1] The Adnanites became Arabized when they migrated to the Arabian Peninsula,[2][3] whereas the Qahtanites of Southern Arabia are pure Arabs.[4][5]
In 1987, Gianluca Paolo Parolin said "The ‘arabicised or arabicising Arabs’, on the contrary, are believed to be the descendants of Ishmael through Adnan, but in this case the genealogy does not match the Biblical line exactly. The label ‘arabicised’ is due to the belief that Ishmael spoke Hebrew until he got to Mecca, where he married a Yemeni woman and learnt Arabic. Both genealogical lines go back to Sem, son of Noah, but only Adnanites can claim Abraham as their ascendant, and the lineage of Mohammed, the Seal of Prophets (khatim al-anbiya'), can therefore be traced back to Abraham. Contemporary historiography unveiled the lack of inner coherence of this genealogical system and demonstrated that it finds insufficient matching evidence; the distinction between Qahtanites and Adnanites is even believed to be a product of the Umayyad Age, when the war of factions (al-niza al-hizbi) was raging in the young Islamic Empire."[1]
As explained and shown before, there was a revolution within Islamic history, wherein replacement took part. History got altered by those who distributed their "aryanized Islamic" views. There is lot of dispute and claiming within, who descents from Muhammad. We however do know for certain that he was from the tribe of Quraish, who descent from Banu Kinanah, from the region Khuzaimah.
quote:Quraysh or Quraish (Arabic: قريش, Qurayš; other transliterations include "Quresh", "Qurrish", "Qurish", "Qirsh", "Quraysh", "Qureshi", "Koreish" and "Coreish") was the dominant tribe of Mecca upon the appearance of the religion of Islam. The tribe of Quraish still exists to the present day in many parts of western and central Arabia.
In the beginning of the 7th century, the Quraish, the powerful merchant tribe of the Arabian Peninsula, controlled Mecca and its Kaaba. The Kaaba was an important Pagan shrine which also brought revenues to Mecca because of the multitude of pilgrims that it attracted.
قالوا و كان واد عبد المصلب اعشرة السادة دلما ضخما نظر اليهم علمر بن الطفيل يطوفون كانهم جمال جون فقال؛ بهولأْ تمنع السدانه و كان عبد الله بن عباس ادام صحما ولد اب طالب اشرف الخلق و هم سود و ادم و دلم
--Al-Jahiz important note in his Fakhr al-Sudan ala al-biyadan
quote:there are black tribes among the Arabs, such as the Banu Sulaim bin Mansur, and that all the peoples settled in the Harra, besides the Banu Sulaimare black.
--Al-Jahiz (776-869): Al-Fakhar al-Sudan min al-Abyadh (Superiority Of The Blacks To The Whites)
One of my friend forwarded some questions to me. Since I couldn’t find any satisfactory answers to his questions I decided to forward his questions to you.
One of his questions is as follows:
History testifies that when Hadrat Muhammad (sws) declared his Prophethood, the Quraysh subjected the Banu Hashim to a boycott. Hadrat Abu Talib took the tribe to an area called Shib Abi Talib where they remained for three years, suffering from immense hardship.
Where were Hadrat Abu Bakr and Hadrat Umar (rta) during that period? They were in Makkah so why did they not help the Holy Prophet (sws)? If they were unable to join the Prophet (sws) at the Shib Abi Talib is there any evidence that they provided any type of support (food etc), breaching the agreement that the Quraysh boycott all food / business transactions with Bani Hashim?
Answer:
Though the basic sources of early Islamic history mention that there had been a boycott by the Quraish with the family of Banu Hashim, yet all of these reports differ in details. It is commonly stated that after the
Muslims migration to Abyssinia Quraish tried to talk the Abyssinian king into handing the migrants to them who turned their request down. This infuriated the Quraish and they decided to come down on the Prophet (sws) with heavy hands. They demanded the leaders of the clan of Banu Hashim to hand the Prophet (sws) over to them. The clan did not yield to their threats and kept the Prophet (sws) under their protection. Now the Quraish unanimously decided to teach the clan a lesson. They forced the clan to leave their place and settle in Sha`ab Abi Talib near Mecca where they spent three years of immense hardship.
Terms of the boycott as they are reported include:
· none will marry into the clan
· none will enter into any kind of financial trade with them
· none will keep social ties with them
A careful study of all the reports would reveal that the present version of the narrative gives rise to some questions. We cannot come to a conclusion before providing satisfactory answers to these questions.
The stated terms do not mention that the clan would be driven out of their settlements in Mecca and do not render them subject to a severe siege.
· The narratives make it clear that the boycott was against the Banu Hasham and their allies Banu Muttalib. Thus there was no question of torturing and forcing members of other clans into this severe suffering as the reports also reveal that Sa`ad Bin Abi Waqas a member of Banu Zuhrah was forced to swallow a piece of skin of dead animal. Why was he huddled with the clan and why did his clan not show up to help him?
· The terms state that none of the Quraish would enter into financial contact with the clan. How could other tribes be stopped from entering into trade with the clan? The terms do not hold it necessary that the clan could not enter into trade with other tribes. There remains no question of their being starved for three years.
· The boycott was not agreed upon by all the Quraish. They would pass such a resolution in Dar-ul-Nadwah as they did in the case of their vow to kill the Prophet (sws) before his migration to Medina.
· Banu Hasham was a famous tribe, which was held in high esteem among the Arabs. They did not live a life of such anonymity that the incident remained unnoticed by all other tribes. This is further corroborated by the fact that they were in charge of looking after the House of Lord and entertaining the pilgrims. We do not hear any thing about their abandoning their duty and any other taking the charge during the time they were besieged.
The above makes it clear that the report cannot be accepted as such. There, however, is a tradition recorded in the Sahih of Muslim which only mentions comprehensible portion of the incident.
Abu Huraira (Allah be pleased with him) reported: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said to us as we were at Mina: We would observe halt tomorrow at Khaif of Banu Kinanah, where (the polytheists) had taken an oath on unbelief, and that was that the Quraish and Banu Kinanah had, pledged against Banu Hashim and Banu Muttalib that they would neither marry nor do any transaction with them unless they deliver Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) to them. And (this pledge was) taken at this (place) Muhassab. [Chapter: Excellence of Making A Halt at Al-Muhassab, on the Day of Nahr, and Observing Prayer There]
This is the most reliable report in this context which does not tell us that the Prophet (sws) and his clan remained subject to starvation for three years.
As regard the Sha`ab of Abi Talib, the place is not known to history. It can only be connected with the Sha`ab of Banu Hashim, a settlement belonging to the tribe that was situated in Mecca. This is supported by the fact that cries of starving children would be heard in the city. Therefore it could not be a far off place. Moreover the place where the tribe was settled did not have much green trees as to be used by the tribe to kill their hunger.
We can only rely on the agreed upon parts of the report as reported in Sahih of Muslim that some of the people of the tribe of Quraish entered into a pledge. It was not a decision backed by the whole tribe. Even the common version of the story mentions that some of the leaders of the Quraish like Mut`am Bin `Adi, Abu `ul Bakhtari Bin Hashim, Zam`ah Bin al-Aswad, `Adi bin Qais and Zuhair Bin Abi Umayyah at last came forward and said that they would no more condone this cruelty. This indicates they did not approve of it in the first place. The pledge did not require the whole of the Arabs and nor could they abandon the clan. Also the terms and conditions do not dictate besieging of the clan. Thus the clan must have faced boycott which worried the Prophet (sws) a lot as he remembered the incident but the nature of the worries could only be what one necessarily feels after being socially boycotted by an influential faction of the society. All the Muslims were not under compulsion and the preaching mission of the Prophet (sws) continued as before.
It clearly seems that the whole incident has been completely blown out of proportion. The incident which related primarily to the social boycott of a people is presented as one of persecution. Nevertheless, it is clear that if the incident were one of persecution, not only Abu Bakr and Omar, but all the Muslims would have stood by the Prophet (sws) and helped their brethren.
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor: [QB] ^Your favorite source:
quote: According to Arab genealogical tradition, the Adnanites are "Arabized Arabs", descended from Adnan.[1] The Adnanites became Arabized when they migrated to the Arabian Peninsula,[2][3] whereas the Qahtanites of Southern Arabia are pure Arabs.[4][5]
In 1987, Gianluca Paolo Parolin said "The ‘arabicised or arabicising Arabs’, on the contrary, are believed to be the descendants of Ishmael through Adnan, but in this case the genealogy does not match the Biblical line exactly.
As explained and shown before, there was a revolution within Islamic history, wherein replacement took part. History got altered by those who distributed their "aryanized Islamic" views. There is lot of dispute and claiming within, who descents from Muhammad. We however do know for certain that he was from the tribe of Quraish (Quraysh) , who descent from Banu Kinanah, from the region Khuzaimah.
What the author is saying is that links of the Adnanites to Ishmael are questionabale
The Adnanites became Arabized when they migrated to the Arabian Peninsula
The Quraysh tribe was a branch of the Banu Kinanah tribe,The Quraish were Adnanites and Muhammad was born into the Banu Hashim clan of the Quraysh tribe. The Quaraysh's main god was Hubal. The Qurayshite pantheon was composed principally of idols that were in the Haram of Makka, that is, Hubal (the most important and oldest deity), Manaf, Isaf, and Na'ila.
So whan Muhammad came out with monotheism the tribal leaders of his own tribe didn't like it so they busted moves on him
But what we can say is Muhammad and the tribe that he came from were Adnanites who became Arabized when they migrated to the Arabian Peninsula. And this is where Islam comes from a man form an Arabized tribe who caused a revolution against the multiple Gods that Arabs were worshipping at the time. He reduced it to only one
The first caliphate founded after the death of the Islamic prophet Muhammad. The First Fitna or Great Fitna ( "The Fitna of the Killing of Uthman") was a civil war within the early Islamic state which resulted in the overthrowing of the Rashidun caliphs and the establishment of the Umayyad dynasty.
The Umayyad family had first come to power under the third caliph, Uthman ibn Affan (r. 644–656), but the Umayyad regime was founded by Muawiya ibn Abi Sufyan, long-time governor of Syria, after the end of the First Muslim Civil War in 661 CE/41 AH. Syria remained the Umayyads' main power base thereafter, and Damascus was their capital.
The Umayyad's later conquered Spain
Under the Umayyads[edit] The conquest of North Africa, 665 The first Arab siege of Constantinople, 674–678 The second Arab siege of Constantinople, 717–718 Conquest of Hispania, 711–718 The conquest of Georgia, 736
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
More crumbs TP more crumbs please.
Meanwhile more pertinent stuff from the Zanj themselves as recorded by al~Jahiz.
The Zanj say: The Prophet (p.b.u.h.) said: I was sent to the red and the black. And everybody knows that the Zanj, Abyssinians and Nubians are surely not white nor red but definitely black.
We know that Allah, the Most Powerful and Exalted, sent His Prophet (to the people), all of them: Arabs and non-Arabs (ajam) alike. And if he (Muhammad) said: I was sent to the ruddy (Al-ahmar) and the dark-skinned (al-aswad), then in his view we are neither ruddy nor light-skinned (bid); so he was sent to us. Indeed, his use of the dark-skinned refers to us, as the people (of our community) are in one of these categories (i.e. either ruddy or dark-skinned). Therefore, if the Arabs are ruddy, then they belong to the Byzantines (Rum), Slavs (Saqaliba), Persians and Khurasanis. But if they belong to the dark-skinned peoples, then they are a sub-category of our stock. So they are called medium- complexioned and brownish-black (sumr sud) when they are classified with us, as the Arabs use the masculine gender to refer to a group consisting of females and males and if the Prophet – may Allah be pleased with him – knew that the Zanj, Ethiopians and Nubians were not ruddy or light-skinned, rather dark-skinned, and that Allah Most High sent him to the dark-skinned and the ruddy, then surely he made us and the Arabs equals.
Thus to this day the white-reds (Greeks and Turks) classify both Arab and African colloquially as nigger as nearly do USA whites prefacing it with sand yet all the while counting them white when it comes to the census.
Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor: ^Your favorite source:
quote: According to Arab genealogical tradition, the Adnanites are "Arabized Arabs", descended from Adnan.[1] The Adnanites became Arabized when they migrated to the Arabian Peninsula,[2][3] whereas the Qahtanites of Southern Arabia are pure Arabs.[4][5]
In 1987, Gianluca Paolo Parolin said "The ‘arabicised or arabicising Arabs’, on the contrary, are believed to be the descendants of Ishmael through Adnan, but in this case the genealogy does not match the Biblical line exactly.
As explained and shown before, there was a revolution within Islamic history, wherein replacement took part. History got altered by those who distributed their "aryanized Islamic" views. There is lot of dispute and claiming within, who descents from Muhammad. We however do know for certain that he was from the tribe of Quraish (Quraysh) , who descent from Banu Kinanah, from the region Khuzaimah.
What the author is saying is that links of the Adnanites to Ishmael are questionabale
Of course it is questionable...but I'm not an expert on the topic.
quote:
Banu Kinanah(Arabic: كنانة) is the largest Adnanite tribe of western Saudi Arabia in Hijjaz [1] . They are descended from Kinanah, who was a grandson of Ilyas (known as Elijah in Jewish and Christian traditions) who was named after the prophet Elijah [2][3], and it was a Jewish tribe before converting to Islam after the prophet Muhammad .
Ancestry
The tribe traces a genealogical history backwards from their eponymous ancestor [4] to Adam:
Kinanah ibn ("son of") Khuzaimah ibn Madrakah ibn Ilyas ( Elijah) ibn Madher ibn Nazar ibn Ma'ad ibn Adnan ibn Add ibn Send [5] ibn Napyot [6] ibn Ishmael [7][7][8] ibn Abraham [9][10][11] ibn Azar [12][13][14] (Terah) ibn Nahoor [15] ibn Srooj [16] ibn Ra'o [17] ibn Phaleg [18] ibn Aber [19] ibn Shaleh [20][21][22] ibn Arpheckshad [23] ibn Sam [24] ibn Noah ibn Lamek [25] ibn Motoshaleh ibn Edres (Enoch) ibn Yared ibn Mehlaiel ibn Qenan ibn Anosh ibn Sheeth ibn Adam
Branches
Banu Kinanah are divided in four branches: An-Nadr, Abdumanat, Malakan, and Malak. Some historians added Aamir, Amr, Alharith, Alnazer, Ghanam, Saad, Aof, Jarwal, Alhudal, Ghazwan, Muhriyah.
relative tribes [26] Quraish [27][28] Bani Asad Sulaim Isaaq clan Tamim Thaqif Huwazin Banu Ghatafan reliable references ^ Desert of Paran ^ Elias ^ Mudhar ^ Madher ^ عن موسى بن يعقوب عن عبد الله بن وهب بن زمعة الزمعي عن عمته عن أم سلمة عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم أنه قال معد بن عدنان بن أدد بن زند بن يرى بن أعراق الثرى قالت أم سلمة : فزند هو الهميسع واليرى هو نبت ، وأعراق الثرى هو إسماعيل; لأنه ابن ابراهيم ، وإبراهيم لم تأكله النار كما أن النار لا تأكل الثرى ^ Book of Genesis 25:12-16 ^ a b Ishmael, Encyclopedia of the Qur'an ^ Azraqi, Akhbar Makkah, vol. 1, pp. 58-66 ^ Abraham, Sarah and Hagar - James D. Brown ^ Genesis 16:1-6 ^ Qur'an 2:127 to 136 ^ Qur'an 6:74 ^ Islamic view of Abraham ^ Qur'an 37:99–111 ^ Luke 3:35 ^ Book of Genesis11:20-23 ^ Genesis 11:20 ^ Genesis 10:25 ^ Adamic language ^ Genesis 10:24 ^ Genesis 11:12-13 ^ Luke 3:36 ^ Book of Genesis 10:22, 24; 11:10-13; 1 Chron. 1:17-18 ^ Book of Jasher Chapter 7:15 ^ Luke 3:37 ^ Arabian tribes that interacted with Muhammad ^ Quraish ^ Quraysh (sura) reliable sources If want to know more About Kinanah, Quraish, Prophet Muhammad, And the Islam history you should also see these books : History Ibn Khaldoun History Ibn al-Athir History Ibn Hisham History Al-Hamdani History Ibn Ishaq Kinship and marriage in early Arabia by \ Smith W. Robertson A universal history, from the earliest accounts to the present time by \ Universal The Koran, Commonly Called the Alcoran of Mohammed By \ George Sale, Savary A Short History of the Arabs by \ Francesco Gabrieli, Salvator Attanasio The March from Medina by \ John Walter Jandora Muhammad by \ Muhammad Zafrulla Khan Mohammed and the Rise of Islam by \ D. S. Margoliouth History of Arabia, Ancient and Modern by \ Andrew Crichton
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