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Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova:

What does being an African American have to do with it?

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Posts: 2981 | Registered: Jan 2012  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by xyyman:

The 3rd study not cited by Lioness did a high resolution analysis of R-V88 throughout Africa and concluded it was central Africans migrating outwards to North Africa and NOT the reverse .

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Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by xyyman:
To the newbies who are interested and would like to know , all is posted on ESR.


Cruciani proposed R-V88 was back migration from Asia . The later study suggested it was Chadic speakers through the Sahara . The 3rd study not cited by Lioness did a high resolution analysis of R-V88 throughout Africa and concluded it was centraL Africans migrating outwards to North Africa and NOT the reverse . Lioness knows this, after accusing me of doctoring the same study. Asking Tukuler to delete it. Agent Provocateur at his best .

He really enjoying toying with you guys . ..
Ha! Ha!

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Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by xyyman:
FYI. I do have a life. And a good one to at that…thus far. So…I take it you just gave up the keys to the house. Well there are a few people here who would like to moderate and will not throw tantrums. I reluctantly volunteer AMRTU. He seems genuinely interested in Africana. He may not be too objective but he isn’t throw emotional outburst. Plus he spends a lot of time here.

Give him, AMRTU, password. If you do not want to moderate. Keep in mind I voted for YOU as a moderator.

Sometimes we need a moderator and sometimes we do not. Example. I would like that fag thread Egmond Cod just created, edited. I don’t want to see fag horses. Really!!


Oh! Anasi is another option. He is doing a stellar job at ESR with growing membership...if he wants it.

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Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008  |  IP: Logged | 

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quote:

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Originally posted by xyyman:

Give him, AMRTU, password. If you do not want to moderate. Keep in mind I voted for YOU as a moderator.

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Posts: 2981 | Registered: Jan 2012  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova:
You accused Bass of being "false"

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Posts: 2981 | Registered: Jan 2012  |  IP: Logged | 

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quote:

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Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

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Originally posted by xyyman:

The 3rd study not cited by Lioness did a high resolution analysis of R-V88 throughout Africa and concluded it was central Africans migrating outwards to North Africa and NOT the reverse .

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^


disregard. He is saying I didn't cite a 3rd study,


red herring raised by zarahan, it's off topic

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Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

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Originally posted by xyyman:

The 3rd study not cited by Lioness did a high resolution analysis of R-V88 throughout Africa and concluded it was central Africans migrating outwards to North Africa and NOT the reverse .

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^ disregard. He is saying I didn't cite a 3rd study, yet he doesn't cite a study, that is complete foolishness
Furthermore R-V88 haplogroup a young clade of R almost completely restricted to Africa is found in Cameroon and Chad not in the horn and the horn is what Bass' thread is about. So mentioning it is a red herring raised by zarahan, it's off topic

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Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by the lioness,:
The genetic landscape of Equatorial Guinea and the origin and migration routes of the Y chromosome haplogroup R-V88

Miguel González 2012



Lower portion of figure 1 pertaining to the V88^^ clade of R

follow the parent of the branch

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quote:

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quote:
The deepest branching separates A1b from a monophyletic clade whose members (A1a, A2, A3, B, C, and R) all share seven mutually reinforcing derived mutations (five transitions and two transversions, all at non-CpG sites). To retain the information from the reference MSY tree13 as much as possible, we named this clade A1a-T (Figure 1). Within A1a-T, the transversion V221 separates A1a from a monophyletic clade (called A2-T) consisting of three branches: A2, A3, and BT, the latter being supported by ten mutations (Figure 1).

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Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by xyyman:

This is really funny. Ha! Ha! You are missing the key point. First, R-V88 radiates/variability is OUTWARDS from Central Africa. Meaning the older version of R-V88 is inner Africa.
European sub-clade of R1b is much much much younger than R-V88.

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R1b is Eurasian so a subclade of it is irrelevant to the fact it is Eurasian

V88 is a subclade of R1b (aka M343) as we have seen in every chart posted in this thread



^^^ This is Haplgroup R

It begins on the upper left at M207

M207 is Eurasian not African

So any subclades of R found outside of Eurasia arer younger

The younger estimate for haplogroup the age of M207 is 19,000 years, in other words Haplogroup R

Subclade V88 found at highest frequencies in Cameroon and Chad and is very rare and at low frequencies outside of Africa

The R-V88 coalescence time was estimated at 5,600 9,200 year old

The highest levels of V88 found outside of Africa are 1-4% in the Levant, comparitively in some tribes of Cameroon and Chad upwards of 95%

V88 is believed to have been spread by cattle herding nomads

_________________________

There is no need to complicate the topic

Haplogroup R originates outside of Africa and is represented by the M207 mutation.
It is at least twice as old as it's sub-clade R-V88

^^^ this last sentence = /close thread

Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

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quote:

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Originally posted by xyyman:

The only reason YDNA R is considered Asian is because the upstream clade of R-V88 has higher frequency in Asia and is vitally absent in Africa .

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Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by xyyman:
No Agent Provocateur. Continue to confuse the issue. Muddy the water. R-V88 from central Africa, to the Berbers of the Sahara and North Africa on to Euroepe…..just as the genetic studies show.

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I think you are the Agent Provocateur. Your theories are all based on wrongness and trickery

Some tribes in Cameroon/Chad region have Hap R 95% +

As we can see above of all the berbers only the Siwa of Egypt have substancial frequencies of R (26.9%) although lower than several countries in Europe.
Furthermore the Siwa are on the East side, not near Gibralter which was your theory

Again, Europeans are albinoized Cameroonians and Chadians who crossed the strait of Gibralter

Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

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quote:

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Originally posted by xyyman:
As TP posted above…..much more work is needed but the answer may be buried in the Sahara.


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Second, the MSY tree is deeper than previously believed. The present figure of about 140 KY for the inferred most recent common ancestor (MRCA) of the MSY phylogeny is older than previous estimates (about 100 KY or below)33–35 and easier to reconcile with plausible scenarios of modern human origin.36 Clearly, calculation of the precise age of the tree largely depends on the accuracy of the assumed mutation rate. In any case, an antiquity of the root greater than that previously estimated is evident from the present tree structure. It is worth noting that A1b, long neglected in previous large-scale resequencing studies of the MSY, contributes to the older TMRCA and high nucleotide diversity values that we observe, highlighting the importance of targeted studies on rare haplogroups. Third, contrary to previous phylogeny-based conclusions, 15,16 the deepest clades of the revised MSYphylogeny are currently found in central and northwest Africa. MSY lineages from these regions coalesce at an older time (142 KY) than do those from east and south Africa (105 KY), opening new perspectives concerning early modern human evolution. A scenario of a Y chromosome ‘‘Adam’’ living in central-northwest Africa about 140 KY ago would provide a good fit to the present data. However, we also note that, because of the still largely incomplete geographic coverage of the African MSY diversity and unknown consequences of past population processes such as growth, extinction, and migration, any phylogeny-based inference on the geographical origin of human MSY diversity in Africa should be made with caution. Additional Y chromosome data and future discoveries in other disciplines are required in order to provide crucial information in support of the proposed scenario. Interestingly, there is an accumulation of a growing body of evidence that indicates that African regions that have been long neglected in studies on the origin of Homo sapiens may have been important early sites of modern human occupation, possibly connected to other areas of the continent by routes that are hidden today (see 37 and references therein). In conclusion, we present here a Y chromosome phylogenetic tree deeply revised in its root and earliest branches. Our data do not uphold previous models of Y chromosomal emergence15,16 and demand a reevaluation of some fundamental ideas concerning the early history of the human genetic diversity we find today.38–40 Our phylogeny shows a root in central-northwest Africa. Although this point requires further attention, we think that it offers a new prospect from which to view the initial development of our species in Africa.

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Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

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Originally posted by xyyman:

This is really funny. Ha! Ha! You are missing the key point. First, R-V88 radiates/variability is OUTWARDS from Central Africa. Meaning the older version of R-V88 is inner Africa.
European sub-clade of R1b is much much much younger than R-V88.

---

R1b is Eurasian so a subclade of it is irrelevant to the fact it is Eurasian

V88 is a subclade of R1b (aka M343) as we have seen in every chart posted in this thread



^^^ This is Haplgroup R

It begins on the upper left at M207

M207 is Eurasian not African

So any subclades of R found outside of Eurasia arer younger

The younger estimate for haplogroup the age of M207 is 19,000 years, in other words Haplogroup R

Subclade V88 found at highest frequencies in Cameroon and Chad and is very rare and at low frequencies outside of Africa

The R-V88 coalescence time was estimated at 5,600 9,200 year old

The highest levels of V88 found outside of Africa are 1-4% in the Levant, comparitively in some tribes of Cameroon and Chad upwards of 95%

V88 is believed to have been spread by cattle herding nomads

_________________________

There is no need to complicate the topic

Haplogroup R originates outside of Africa and is represented by the M207 mutation.
It is at least twice as old as it's sub-clade R-V88

^^^ this last sentence = /close thread

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http://files.figshare.com/292764/Table_S1.xls

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Table S1. Haplogroup Affiliation of the Seven Chromosomes that Were Re-sequenced

Haplogroup (by lineage): R1b1*(×R1b1a,b,c)

Haplogroup (by mutation): R-P25*(×M18,P297,M335)

Although the level of resolution of the MSY tree has been significantly increased in the last decade, its basal backbone has remained substantially unchanged. The first branching in the MSY tree has been reported to be the one that separates the African-specific clade A (called clade I in 10) from clade BT (clade II-X in 10), whereas the second branching determines the subdivision of BT in clades B, mostly African, and CT, which comprises the majority of African and all non-African chromosomes.13 and 14 This branching pattern, along with the geographical distribution of the major clades A, B, and CT, has been interpreted as supporting an African origin for anatomically modern humans,10 with Khoisan from south Africa and Ethiopians from east Africa sharing the deepest lineages of the phylogeny.15 and 16


The deepest branching separates A1b from a monophyletic clade whose members (A1a, A2, A3, B, C, and R) all share seven mutually reinforcing derived mutations (five transitions and two transversions, all at non-CpG sites).





These chromosomes belong to a clade (haplogroup BT) in which chromosomes C and R share a common ancestor (Figure 2).

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Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

Scozzari R, Massaia A, D’Atanasio E, Myres NM, Perego UA, et al. (2012) Molecular Dissection of the Basal Clades in the Human Y Chromosome Phylogenetic Tree. PLoS ONE 7(11): e49170. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0049170

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An independent high resolution MSY phylogeny has been recently obtained from 2,870 Y-SNPs discovered (or re-discovered) in the course of a large whole-genome re-sequencing study, but the observed variable sites all belong to the recent “out of Africa” CT clade [15]. Recently, in a re-sequencing study of the Y chromosome, the root of the tree moved to a new position and several changes at the basal nodes of the phylogeny were introduced [16]. Interestingly, the estimated coalescence age and deep branching pattern of the revised MSY tree appear to be more similar to those of the mtDNA phylogeny [17], [18] than previously reported [1].

[...]


Three of the seven R-specific mutations (V45, V69 and V88) were previously mapped within haplogroup R [34], whereas the remaining four mutations have been here positioned at the root of haplogroups F (V186 and V205), K (V104) and P (V231) (Figure S1) through the analysis of 12 haplogroup F samples (samples 40–51, in Table S1).


[...]


All Y-clades that are not exclusively African belong to the macro-haplogroup CT, which is defined by mutations M168, M294 and P9.1 [14], [31] and is subdivided into two major clades, DE and CF [1], [14]. In a recent study [16], sequencing of two chromosomes belonging to haplogroups C and R, led to the identification of 25 new mutations, eleven of which were in the C-chromosome and seven in the R-chromosome. Here, the seven mutations which were found to be shared by chromosomes of haplogroups C and R [16]


[...]


Two A1b chromosomes from a previous work (one from Algeria and one from Cameroon) [16] were included in this study together with two newly identified A1b chromosomes, whose geographic origin can be traced back to west-central Africa (Ghana) on the basis of the microsatellite profile (data not shown).

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http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0049170




Structure of the macro-haplogroup CT. For details on mutations see legend to Figure 1. Dashed lines indicate putative branchings (no positive control available). The position of V248 (haplogroup C2) and V87 (haplogroup C3) compared to mutations that define internal branches was not determined. Note that mutations V45, V69 and V88 have been previously mapped (Cruciani et al. 2010; Eur J Hum Genet 18∶800–807).

Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

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Originally posted by kdolo:
'In fact no Royals in Europe up to the Medieval Age carried the modern European male line.'

So what happened ???

Wholesale replacement of the Royals during the middle ages ??

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Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged |