Das Grab des Tjanuni. This says the Tomb (grave) of TJANUNI. That is not a problem. My German is well, so I can read the PDF with ease. But I don't understand your post, that it what I am referring at. What is it you try to say here? [/QB]
II'm saying find this and read it It is also on German but is and older 1977 publication, author Artur Brack. I have not posted it. I don't have access >
1977, German, Book, Illustrated edition: Das Grab des Tjanuni : Theben Nr. 74 / von Annelies u. Artur Brack. Brack, Annelies.
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
Das Grab des Tjanuni. This says the Tomb (grave) of TJANUNI. That is not a problem. My German is well, so I can read the PDF with ease. But I don't understand your post, that it what I am referring at. What is it you try to say here?
II'm saying find this and read it It is also on German but is and older 1977 publication, author Artur Brack. I have not posted it. I don't have access >
It's funny, because this images is on the cover of Scientific American, issued June 1949. But nowhere in the actually publication is spoken of this image, or is this being shown.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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It's funny, because this images is on the cover of Scientific American, issued June 1949. But nowhere in the actually publication is spoken of this image, or is this being shown.
You have an link above to a speech transcript given in 1994 by William Linn Westermann. The title: " Between Slavery and Freedom"
The june 1949 article also by Westerman which appeared in Scientific American is called "Ancient Slavery"
It's funny, because this images is on the cover of Scientific American, issued June 1949. But nowhere in the actually publication is spoken of this image, or is this being shown.
You have an link above to a speech transcript given in 1994 by William Linn Westermann. The title: " Between Slavery and Freedom"
The june 1949 article also by Westerman which appeared in Scientific American is called "Ancient Slavery"
The first link (post) was a hint the the author. I didn't not posses the 1949 Scientific American article yet. Now I do. So I posted the actual source. Meaning the cover. And yes it's from that link, Scientific American Volume 180, Issue 6. "Ancient Slavery". As the cover shows.
The only time Egypt is being mentions is:
quote:In the legislation set up to control slave systems the history of human en slavement can be traced back to the earliest periods of written laws known to us: in Egypt, in Babylonia, and in the Mediterranean areas that later fell under Greek and Roman control. This carries the system some 5,000 years back from the present day.
Scientific American decided to used that image. But it has nothing to do with the article itself. While I was under the assumption the article would elaborate on the origin of that depiction, my curiosity got disappointed. I think the second publication had a numerological purpose. 1949#1994.
The main problem here is that this image is being used widespread, all over the net, however the source remains unknown. And no one ever elaborates on the source.
However, below appears to be the same image, but is has no color, so who decided to color it, as we see at Scientific American:
I know that at the temple Abu Simbel there are some murals of prisoners. Different kinds no of prisoners. But I can't recall this one. So to me it remains a mystery.
The thing that makes it ironic is that the Abu Simbel temple was relocated. Meaning the construction was deconstructed, and reconstructed.
A film on the archaeological significance of the huge Egyptian temples of Abu Simbel and their dissection and removal, stone by stone, to higher grounds out of the reach of the waters of t
In professor Watrall’s lectures last week, he mentioned that modern Egypt built the Aswan Dam in an attempt to try to contain and minimize the impacts of the annual rising and falling of the water levels of the Nile that for centuries has caused fluctuations in the productivity of agriculture on the flood lands along the river. Due to the construction of the dam, many archaeological sites we threaten by the flooding that would result from the construction of the dam. One of the most famous sites that were threatened was the Abu Simbel temples located in Nubia. For those who are not familiar with the temples, the temples are located on the west bank of the Nile, just southwest of Aswan and were originally constructed during the time period of the Pharaoh Ramses II (around 1257 BCE).
abu simbel temples
The Abe Simbel temples are spectacular! In the past I had read about them and have grown quite fond of the temples themselves. The temples were discovered in 1813 and were explored in 1817 by Giovanni Battista Belzoni. The temples themselves were actually carved into a face of a cliff, much like our very own Mount Rushmore here in the United States. Instead of 5 faces of past presidents, the Abu Simbel temples’ front face shows four colossal seated figures of Ramses himself, all about 67 feet in height. It has been said that the construction of the temple took about 20 years to complete.
When the proposal of the construction of the Aswan Dam begun and discussions about the area at which would most likely flood started, it became imperative to move the Abel Simbel temples to a location that they would be safe from the rising water levels of Lake Nassar. So in 1959, an international donations campaign to save the monument began. According to one resource, the actual saving and reconstruction act for the temples required 5 years of time and approximately $40 million dollars. On Nov. 16,1963, the disassembling of the temples began. With the help of the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) and the Egyptian government, the temples were successfully moved and reconstructed on top of a cliff another 200 feet above the original site.
During my search, I ran across a link for a video that discussed some of the tactics used to disassemble the temples. I thought it was extremely interesting and entertaining so I thought I would share it with you.
quote:Istituto Superiore d'Arte Venturi - esperienze didattiche - Visita al Museo Civico Archeologico di Bologna, Sezione Egizia
L'esperienza di visita al museo egizio è nata dalla necessità di far vedere agli alunni manufatti simili a quelli studiati, per tradurre l’esperienza astratta della lezione in classe a quella piu’ concreta dell’esperienza diretta. La visita, realizzata nel dicembre 2012, è stata pensata a conclusione di un percorso di studio fatto sull’arte e sulla civiltà egizia.
La sezione egiziana del Museo Archeologico di Bologna, che comprende circa 3500 oggetti, è una delle più significative d’Italia e d'Europa. Essa è costituita in gran parte dai materiali raccolti dal pittore Pelagio Palagi, ceduti al Municipio di Bologna nel 1861, dopo la sua morte. Questa raccolta si arricchisce nel 1881 di un centinaio di oggetti provenienti dal Regio Museo dell’Università e, negli anni successivi, di altre collezioni minori o saltuarie acquisizioni. L’intera collezione è stata riallestita nel 1994 secondo nuovi criteri espositivi. La sezione è suddivisa in tre settori: il primo comprende i rilievi della necropoli di Saqqàra, il secondo espone i materiali in ordine cronologico a partire dalle origini della storia egiziana fino all’epoca romana, il terzo illustra alcuni aspetti fondamentali della società faraonica, come la scrittura, il culto funerario e la magia.
Video-presentazione: Vittoria Maiocco, docente di storia dell’arte classe 1D dell'ISA Venturi di Modena foto di Lia Ferracini, 1D
quote: Civic Museum of Bologna - Egyptian Section Visit the 1D
December 2012 Civic Archaeological Museum of Bologna, Egyptian Section Via dell'Archiginnasio 2
The 1D visit the Egyptian Museum of Bologna - Collection Pelagio Palagi The experience of visiting the Egyptian museum was born from the need to show pupils similar articles to those studied, to translate the abstract experience of the lesson in the classroom to the more 'concrete experience direct. The visit, conducted in December 2012, was conceived at the conclusion of a study done on art and Egyptian civilization.
The Egyptian section of the Archaeological Museum of Bologna, which includes about 3,500 items, is one of the most important in Italy and Europe. It is made largely from material collected by the painter Pelagio Palagi, transferred to the Municipality of Bologna in 1861, after his death. This collection is enriched in 1881 with a hundred objects from the Royal Museum of the University and, in subsequent years, other smaller collections or occasional acquisitions. The entire collection has been set up again in 1994 according to new exhibition criteria. The section is divided into three sections: the first includes the findings of the necropolis of Saqqara, the second presents the material in chronological order starting from the origins of Egyptian history until Roman times, the third illustrates some fundamental aspects of pharaonic society, as writing, the funeral cult and magic.
Video presentation: Maiocco victory, art history teacher Class 1D ISA Venturi in Modena photos of Lia Ferracini, 1D
I now see how I missed this on at Tomb KV57. When I was there this section was closed. They often close certain sections at the Valley of Kings. I have to revised sometime.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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I now see how I missed this on at Tomb KV57. When I was there this section was closed. They often close certain sections at the Valley of Kings. I have to revised sometime.
The piece is located at the Archaeological Museum of Bologna
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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I now see how I missed this on at Tomb KV57. When I was there this section was closed. They often close certain sections at the Valley of Kings. I have to revised sometime.
The piece is located at the Archaeological Museum of Bologna
The original.
It's not surprising that two black African groups have different facial features. They seem to have the same skin-tone in that picture.
Posts: 1568 | From: Pluto | Registered: Sep 2008
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I now see how I missed this on at Tomb KV57. When I was there this section was closed. They often close certain sections at the Valley of Kings. I have to revised sometime.
The piece is located at the Archaeological Museum of Bologna
The original.
It's not surprising that two black African groups have different facial features. The Egyptian captors have the same skin-tone as the prisoners in that picture.
I now see how I missed this on at Tomb KV57. When I was there this section was closed. They often close certain sections at the Valley of Kings. I have to revised sometime.
The piece is located at the Archaeological Museum of Bologna
The original.
It's not surprising that two black African groups have different facial features. They seem to have the same skin-tone in that picture.
You are calling the lower picture the original yet it's a different picture.
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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I now see how I missed this on at Tomb KV57. When I was there this section was closed. They often close certain sections at the Valley of Kings. I have to revised sometime.
The piece is located at the Archaeological Museum of Bologna
The original.
It's not surprising that two black African groups have different facial features. They seem to have the same skin-tone in that picture.
You are calling the lower picture the original yet it's a different picture.
You're right, it does look different on second observation, but all the Africans in that picture have the same skin-tone. It might be part of the same series of murals.
Posts: 1568 | From: Pluto | Registered: Sep 2008
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I now see how I missed this on at Tomb KV57. When I was there this section was closed. They often close certain sections at the Valley of Kings. I have to revised sometime.
The piece is located at the Archaeological Museum of Bologna
I mixed up the info.
I already had it up there:
Civic Museum of Bologna - Egyptian Section Visit the 1D
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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I now see how I missed this on at Tomb KV57. When I was there this section was closed. They often close certain sections at the Valley of Kings. I have to revised sometime.
The piece is located at the Archaeological Museum of Bologna
Why are you posting this, when it's written in the elaborate information? A few days ago I asked you what the source is, and you said: "I don't know". You're a dick rider.
you are quite stupid
this is the first time the museum was mentioned in this thread >>
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: Lioness, what is the source and origin of this images?
I also posted comparative are.
I don't know why your are asking this:
Musei Civici di Bologna - Museo Civico Archeologico,
You just posted 3 pictures with no info
^^^As you can see jackass, I didn't say "I don't know" I said
> I don't know why you are asking this <
stupid, that's different
then after I gave you the answer you said "I now see how I missed this on at Tomb KV57. When I was there this section was closed."
At that point I had to remind you why you didn't see it in Egypt
NOT BECAUSE THE SECTION WAS CLOSED BECAUSE LIKE MANY EGYPTIAN ARTIFACTS THE PIECE IS NO LONGER IN IT'S ORIGINAL LOCATION IT'S IN Musei Civici di Bologna
and the second time I even spelled it out in English for you
But you're right. You said I don't know why you're asking this.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: Lioness, what is the source and origin of this images?
I also posted comparative are.
I don't know why your are asking this:
Musei Civici di Bologna - Museo Civico Archeologico,
You just posted 3 pictures with no info
quote: Relief from the tomb of Horemheb with Nubian prisoners
Additional information
The only Bolognese relief carved in recess depicts a group of Nubians prisoners, recognizable by the physical features of negroid type, the frizzy hair and loop earrings. These sit on the ground in an act of submission, guarded by three armed Egyptian soldiers with sticks, while a scribe, who holds in his hands the palette for color tablets and stylus, takes the minutes of what is happening and choose between the two servants prisoners for Tutankhamun's court, as he says in the inscription in hieroglyphics surrounding the scene.
Inventory number: KS 1869 = 1887 Rilievo from the tomb of Horemheb with Nubian prisoners
The relief, together with other four in the Museum, comes from the Memphite tomb of General Horemheb, who ended his amazing becoming last pharaoh military and political career of the Eighteenth Dynasty. Before being elected ruler of Egypt, and to choose which burial place the Valley of the Kings, Horemheb had built two graves: one at Amarna, at the time of the so-called heretic Pharaoh Akhenaten, and a second at Saqqara during the reign of Tutankhamen, they come from these and many other parietal fragments now exhibited in various European and American museums.
Provenance: Egypt: Saqqara. Palagi collection (Nizzoli) Dating: New Kingdom: Eighteenth Dynasty, reign of Tutankhamun (1332 - 1323 BC) Material: limestone with traces of color Size: 62.5 x 85 cm
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: You are probably wrong.
stop wasting everybody's time. That is not an argument
"you're wrong" is worthless unless you have information to present
You are not trying to contribute to the thread question you are just trying to prove me wrong about something for it's own sake, that's infantile
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quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: You are probably wrong.
stop wasting everybody's time. That is not an argument
"you're wrong" is worthless unless you have information to present
You are not trying to contribute to the thread question you are just trying to prove me wrong about something for it's own sake, that's infantile
LOL At the probable cause.
Jack an' jive. They probably came from Mars. Prove me wrong.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote: The Egyptian collection of the Archaeological Museum of Bologna
The Egyptian collection of the Archaeological Museum of Bologna is one of the most important in Italy, together with those of Turin and Florence, and it is also relevant at European level for the number, historical value and conservation status of its approximately 4,000 objects1. The Egyptian department, like many other sections of the museum, was founded in 1881 by the merging of the Egyptian antiquities of the University Museum with the magnificent collection of the Bolognese painter Pelagio Palagi (1775-1860)2.
After the Napoleonic expedition in Egypt (1798-1799), kings, statesmen and, more seldom, privates purchased important collections of antiquities that would form the core of major museums of Europe. Pelagio Palagi was one of these great collectors. Between 1831 and 1832, he bought most of his 3109 Egyptian objects from Giuseppe Nizzoli, chancellor at the Austrian consulate in Egypt from 1818 to 18283. The antiquities sold to Palagi came from the antique market in Cairo or from excavations, including those carried out in the necropolis of Saqqara between April and May 1825 by Amalia Sola, the nineteen-year old wife of Nizzoli4.
[...]
The problem of duplication through a model made by contact with the originals was thus overcome and the ‘issue’ on the Horemheb reliefs, interrupted years before only for preservation reasons, was resumed. The Archaeological Museum of Bologna’s proposal of producing a few high-quality replicas in marble of its reliefs from Saqqara, more durable than the limestone of the originals and more valuable than the mixture of resin and plaster used for the casts of the Eighties11, has been well accepted by Prof. Dr. Maarten J. Raven, the field director of the Dutch excavation mission in Saqqara since 1999. Furthermore, this project has become the start of the five-year agreement mentioned above12.
By mutual agreement between the two partners, it has been decided to produce only the replica of the Horemheb relief featuring Nubian prisoners, since it is the only one whose original position on the est wall (south side) of the inner courtyard is well known13. The other four Bolognese reliefs, one from the central chapel of the inner courtyard and three from the second courtyard, are not contiguous to the wall fragments still in situ, and it would have been difficult, if not impossible, to put them back in their position. It seemed, thus, more suitable to produce the replica of a pillar from the north wall of Ptahemwia’s tomb, a burial discovered by Maarten Raven in 200714.
[...]
The catalogue of the third Nizzoli’s collection, i.e Catalogo Dettagliato della Raccolta di Antichità Egizie riunite da Giuseppe Nizzoli, Alessandria d’Egitto 1827, definitely mentions the relief of Horemheb with Nubian prisoners, while the other four reliefs were added in the handwritten notes at the bottom of the copy used as inventory for the sale to Palagi; see Pernigotti 1991:64, 66, 78- 79.
The “Horemheb & Saqqara” project Daniela Picchi (Archaeological Museum of Bologna)
Hogwash individual, where did I post that image in this thread, or anywhere else on this forum.
That image, ironically I have seen it at Abu Simbel. Remember, the relocation?
Unknown prisoner. LOL SMH
Code: W002620 Artist: Egyptian art Title: A fragment of a relief with a depiction of a Nubian slave. Location: Art Museum City: St. Louis (MO) Country: USA Period/Style: Not available Genre: Not available
Period: Middle Kingdom Dynasty: Dynasty 12 Reign: reign of Amenemhat I–Senwosret I Date: ca. 1981–1952 B.C. Geography: From Egypt, Memphite Region, Lisht North, Pyramid Temple of Amenemhat I, MMA excavations, 1907 Medium: Limestone, paint Dimensions: H. 36.8 cm (14 1/2 in.); W. 172.7 cm (68 in.); D. 13.3 cm (5 1/4 in.) Credit Line: Rogers Fund, 1908 Accession Number: 08.200.5
I always wondered about the authenticity of that picture, I knew of the existence and that I have seen it at Abu Simbel. I wonder which one is real and fake. And I am surprised that there is a plate at the Art Museum, St. Louis (MO). Though they say the origin, time and place is unknown. But euronuts go around the Internet ranting: see niggers/ black etc... weren't Egyptians.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: If you look at the Egyptian art depicting Egyptians you see a lot of types, yes
That's is because they are a clusters of several ethnic groups from the region. The man in bondage is one of them, but not exclusively a slave or captive because of his facial traits (whether fake or not), contrary what euronuts claim. Just like you will see black folks with different facial triats nowadays.
quote: There is now a sufficient body of evidence from modern studies of skeletal remains to indicate that the ancient Egyptians, especially southern Egyptians, exhibited physical characteristics that are within the range of variation for ancient and modern indigenous peoples of the Sahara and tropical Africa.
In general, the inhabitants of Upper Egypt and Nubia had the greatest biological affinity to people of the Sahara and more southerly areas
[...]
Any interpretation of the biological affinities of the ancient Egyptians must be placed in the context of hypothesis informed by the archaeological, linguistic, geographic or other data.
In this context the physical anthropological evidence indicates that the early Nile Valley populations can be identified as part of an African lineage, but exhibiting local variation.
This variation represents the short and long term effects of evolutionary forces, such as gene flow, genetic drift, and natural selection influenced by culture and geography"
--Kathryn A. Bard (STEPHEN E. THOMPSON Egyptians, physical anthropology of Physical anthropology) (1999, 2005, 2015)
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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Roman Egypt, c. 1st - 3rd Century AD. Great Egyptian gold and bronze loop from the Roman Period. The core of heavy bronze over which sheet gold has been hammered. 32 x 26mm. Few areas where the bronze core has been exposed. A neat piece which may be a form of jewelry or perhaps a loop for a larger composition. Ex property from a private San Francisco estate; estate residuary beneficiary California Pacific Medical Center Foundation. #AE2039x2: $399
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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