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Last year I did a study on the major ethnic groups for each African country. I've heard so many different tribes trace their history to the Nile Valley I wanted to see if every country had at least one tribe that did.
If their Oral history was plausible and relatively concise among their people I counted them as such. What I noticed was that there were less East African and central African tribes than expected. This was especially true in the Sudan. I figured that most Sudanese tribes would just squat and say they have always lived there but many traced their history to Asia. The Kalenjin and Luhya are examples of a firm positives coming from the east.
People have made reasonable arguments as to why DNAtribe's MLI scores underrepresented the Horn. Then you have M13 in the Sudan Posts: 1254 | From: howdy | Registered: Mar 2014
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Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Most of the Egyptians migrated into West Africa after fall of Egypt, not Northeast Africa.
I am skeptical of any mass exodus from Egypt to say Nigeria because Persians or Assyrians showed up. Taharqua's boys went more south if anything. Has there always been movement from Egypt via the Saharan/ Sahelian belt to the West? Sure. Even pastoralist at a minimum would show that. Might such movement increase during times of stress? Maybe. Could there be the movement of peoples following contours of the Nile Basin at some level? Sure. If one follows the basin into the Congo then eventually you can reach the Atlantic. But it seems a stretch to say most of the population of Egypt vacated the country when Assyrians, Persians, Greeks or Romans showed up. How does all the population of Egypt just move out?
Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Most of the Egyptians migrated into West Africa after fall of Egypt, not Northeast Africa.
I can see that because it's easier to name west African tribes off the top of my head. I may have a west African I would really like to know more about some of the East African tribes of the Sudan and Egypt.
Posts: 1254 | From: howdy | Registered: Mar 2014
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It use to be a passion of my to look for the 42 tribes that migrated in Africa. Cheikh Anta Diop in African Origin of Civilization, Mustafa Gadalla in Exiled Egyptians mention the African Ethnic group who migrated back to Africa from Egypt. Wally and Clyde in Egypt Search Forum mention many African tribes who were part of the 42 tribes of Egypt.
Among the 42 Tribes that formed the 42 nomes or 42 states of Egypt were. The Akan, Ibo, Yoruba, Mande, Soninke, Ga, Fon, Wolof, Tutsi, Mangbetu, Oromo, Somali, Kalenjin, Luo, Kikuyu, Masaii, Zulu.
quote:Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova: Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Most of the Egyptians migrated into West Africa after fall of Egypt, not Northeast Africa.
I am skeptical of any mass exodus from Egypt to say Nigeria because Persians or Assyrians showed up. Taharqua's boys went more south if anything. Has there always been movement from Egypt via the Saharan/ Sahelian belt to the West? Sure. Even pastoralist at a minimum would show that. Might such movement increase during times of stress? Maybe. Could there be the movement of peoples following contours of the Nile Basin at some level? Sure. If one follows the basin into the Congo then eventually you can reach the Atlantic. But it seems a stretch to say most of the population of Egypt vacated the country when Assyrians, Persians, Greeks or Romans showed up. How does all the population of Egypt just move out?
I must disagree. Since the Assyrians first conquered the Egyptians there has been a slow replacement of ancient Egyptians by Middle Eastern and Western European peoples.
Beginning with the Assyrian defeat of the Twenty-Fifth Dynasty large number of nomadic people from the Middle East began to migrate into Egypt. These people began to take over many Egyptian settlements, while other Egyptians fled to Nubia and Kush to avoid non-Egyptian rule.
Other ancient Egyptian caused political and military conflicts that led many Egyptians to migrate out of Egypt into Nubia and Kush. Herodotus’ mentions the mutiny of Psamtik I’s frontier garrison at Elephantine—these deerters moved into Kush. Moreover, the archaizing trend in Kush among the post Twenty-Fifth Dynasty Kings testify to a possible large migration of Egyptians into Kush.
In 343 BC Nectanebos II, fled to Upper Egypt. Later according to the Natasen period stela we hve evidence of other Egyptians migrating into Kush from Egypt (Torok, 1997, p.391).
Between the 260’s-270’s BC Upper Egyptian Nationalists were fighting the Ptolemy (Greek) rulers of Egypt. The rebellion was put down by Ptolemy II. This military action led to Egyptians migrating out of Egypt into Kush (Torok, pp.395-396). These rebellions continued in Egypt into the 2nd Century BC (Torok, p.426).
Between Ptolomy II and Ptolemy V, the Greeks began to settle Egypt. This was especially true in the 150’sBC and led to many Egyptians migrating back into Egypt. By the time the Romans entered Egypt, many Egyptians had already left Egypt and settled. Roman politics also forced many Egyptians to migrate into Kush. This was compounded by the introduction of the Pax Agusta policy of the Romans which sought the establishment of Roman hegemony within territories under Roman rule (Torok, 454-456). This led to the emigration of many Romans into Egypt.
The Kush was a multi-ethnic society. It included speakers of many languages within the empire. During most of Kushite history the elites used Egyptian for record keeping since it was recognized as a neutral language.
As more and more Egyptians, led by Egyptian nationalists, fled to Kush as it became under foreign dominantion the Egyptians formed a large minority in the Empire. Because of Egyptian migrations to Kush, by the rule of the Meroitic Queen Shanakdakheto, we find the Egyptian language abandoned as a medium of exchange in official records, and the Meroitic script takes its place.
By the rise of Greeks in Egypt, the cultural ideology , like the people were changing. This is supported by the transition from Demotic writing (7th 5th Centuries BC) to Coptic (4th BC-AD 1400). The Coptic people are the best evidence for the change in the Egyptian population.Fprmerly they were Black, today they are predominately "white".
Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Most of the Egyptians migrated into West Africa after fall of Egypt, not Northeast Africa.
I can see that because it's easier to name west African tribes off the top of my head. I may have a west African I would really like to know more about some of the East African tribes of the Sudan and Egypt.
Egypt a Pan-African Civilization
Over the years Diop and other researchers have identified linguistic evidence that ancient Egyptian and Black African languages are related. This suggest that speakers of these languages formerly lived together.
It has been pointed out that the ancestors of the Egyptians originally lived in the Sahara.
There are similarities between Egyptian and Saharan motifs (Farid,1985). It was in the Sahara that we find the first evidence of agriculture, animal domestication and weaving (Farid , 1985, p.82). This highland region is the Kemites "Mountain of the Moons " region, the area from which the civilization and goods of Kem, originated.
The rock art of the Saharan Highlands support the Egyptian traditions that in ancient times they lived in the Mountains of the Moon. The Predynastic Egyptian mobiliar art and the Saharan rock art share many common themes including, characteristic boats (Farid 1985,p. 82), men with feathers on their head (Petrie ,1921,pl. xvlll,fig.74; Raphael, 1947, pl.xxiv, fig.10; Vandier , 1952, p.285, fig. 192), false tail hanging from the waist (Vandier, 1952, p.353; Farid, 1985,p.83; Winkler 1938,I, pl.xxlll) and the phallic sheath (Vandier, 1952, p.353; Winkler , 1938,I , pl.xvlll,xx, xxlll).
Due to the appearance of aridity in the Mountains of the Moon the Proto-Saharans migrated first into Nubia and thence into Kem. The Proto-Saharan origin of the Kemites explain the fact that the Kushites were known for maintaining the most ancient traditions of the Kemites as proven when the XXVth Dynasty or Kushite Dynasty ruled ancient Egypt. Farid (1985, p.85) wrote that "To conclude, it seems that among Predynastic foreign relations, the [Proto-]Saharians were the first to have significant contact with the Nile Valley, and even formed a part of the Predynastic population" (emphasis author).
This means that the Nomes probably represent different "states" incorporated into ancient Egypt. It is quite possible that each nome represented a different ethnic group.
If this is true the Egyptian language was probably a lingua franca used to provide a means of communication for the diverse people who lived in ancient Egypt. This would explain why Egyptian was used to write Kushite text until Egyptians migrated into Meroitic lands once Egypt was under the control of the Romans.
Alain Anselin La Question Peule, makes it clear that the Fula originated in Egypt. He supports this theory with the obvious similarity between the words for cattle and milk shared by the Egyptians, Fula and Dravidians (Tamil). He believes that by the 12 Dynasty of Egypt Fula were settled in Egypt.
The Egyptians had many gods. They had these gods because as new ethnicities formed nomes in Egypt they brought their gods with them.
A good example of this amalgamation of various African ethnicities into Egypt is the followers of the god Ra. Some of the first rulers of Egypt saw Ra as the main god.
Later the Egyptians worshipped Aman/Amun which was a Saharan god. ). By the 2nd millennium BC Kushites at kerma were already worshippers of Amon/Amun and they used a distinctive black-and-red ware (Bonnet 1986; Winters 1985b,1991). Amon, later became a major god of the Egyptians during the 18th Dynasty.
A majority of Fula may have remained nomadic, but settled Fula probaly form a major ethnic group in an Egyptian Nome, as did Wolof and Mande speaking people. This is the best way to explain the close genetic linguistic relationship between these groups.
Granted, some Wolof, Mande and Fula made their way to West Africa, but many speakers of these languages remained in Egypt and made up one of the various nomes associated with Egypt.
DNA can tells us little about this period unless they recover DNA from the people living at that time. DNA from living individuals only tell us abou the contemporary group. Not the original people.
Egypt was a cosmopolitan area inhabited by diverse people who move up the Nile from the south to found the First Dynasty. Since the people of Dynastic Egypt originated in the Sahara and moved from south to north . The archaeological evidence makes it clear that no one originated in Egypt.
We know that in African societies great ancestors are made into “gods”. This is interesting because Wally has discovered a number of African ethnonyms among the gods of Egyptian nomes.
[quote]
Originally posted by Wally:
Ethnic names in the Mdu Ntr
Tutsi Tutsi "the assembled gods"; "all of them (gods)"
Akan Akan - the name of a god Akaniu - a class of gods like Osiris
Fante Fante - "he of the nose" - a name of Thoth - one of the 42 judges in the Hall of Osiris ("Shante" in modern Egyptian)
Hausa Hosa - a singing god
Yoruba Ourbaiu - great of souls, a title of gods or kings Ouruba - Great God of soul
The permutations of names of such folks as the Wolof or the Fulani are so many, that it requires the effort of those who speak the language, to properly interpret the names -ie, Djoloff, Oulof, etc. and then look for their meanings in Budge's dictionary...
It would be quite interesting if these nomes were formerly prominent southern nomes who gained prominence once the Inyotefs came to power.
The appearence of these ethnonyms in Egyptian suggest that African tribes now living in West Africans formerly lived in ancient Egypt in the nomes that made up this great empire.
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