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Haplogroup H dominates present-day Western European mitochondrial DNA variability (>40%), yet was less common (~19%) among Early Neolithic farmers (~5450 BC) and virtually absent in Mesolithic hunter-gatherers. Here we investigate this major component of the maternal population history of modern Europeans and sequence 39 complete haplogroup H mitochondrial genomes from ancient human remains. We then compare this 'real-time' genetic data with cultural changes taking place between the Early Neolithic (~5450 BC) and Bronze Age (~2200 BC) in Central Europe. Our results reveal that the current diversity and distribution of haplogroup H were largely established by the Mid Neolithic (~4000 BC), but with substantial genetic contributions from subsequent pan-European cultures such as the Bell Beakers expanding out of Iberia in the Late Neolithic (~2800 BC). Dated haplogroup H genomes allow us to reconstruct the recent evolutionary history of haplogroup H and reveal a mutation rate 45% higher than current estimates for human mitochondria.

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Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Oshun:
I just wanted to see a thread that's more particularly focused on the origins of H, and what both sides of the argument say in favor of their position.

some questions:

-The study posted on ESR about the diversity of H1 points to Tunisia, but the data doesn't compare Iberian. Has any information since compared H1 diversity to Iberia?


- I heard the coalescence age favored Iberia, anything new on that?

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Originally Posted by: xyyman;

Mitochondrial Haplogroup H1 in North Africa: An Early Holocene Arrival from Iberia

Antonio Torroni5 , Alessandro Achilli et al

Read more: http://egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/thread/1374/mtdna-african-probably#ixzz4CE24YdgQ




That is really suspicious. Now they may put it out there that the intent of the study was to the origin of H1 IN Africa. But even that is wrong, the data shows Tunisia NOT Morocco has the highest H1 diversity in Africa. Which proves their premise FALSE. Someone tell me I am wrong!! Am I the most intelligent here?

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we are looking at a chart here. The legend at the bottom of the chart informs us that column (b) is Haplotype diversity (H-b) and we can plainly see that the diversity of H in Libyan Tuaregs is significantly lower than all the other groups.
The is plainly stated in the article:

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0013378

The genetic diversity of the Libyan H1 mtDNAs appeared to be extremely low, with 91% of the H1 individuals sharing the same HVS-I/II haplotype (i.e. CRS-263)....

Moroccans, Tunisians and the Tuareg from Sahel were found to be much more diverse than the Libyan Tuareg, with haplotype diversities of 0.577, 0.633 and 0.595, respectively.


^there's a text quote, quoting the data from the chart as we see
xyyman's remarks threads are a plethora of misstatements and he's miseducating a lot of readers.

Posts: 42930 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by the lioness,:
we are looking at a chart here. The legend at the bottom of the chart informs us that column (b) is Haplotype diversity (H-b) and we can plainly see that the diversity of H in Libyan Tuaregs is significantly lower than all the other groups.
The is plainly stated in the article:

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0013378

The genetic diversity of the Libyan H1 mtDNAs appeared to be extremely low, with 91% of the H1 individuals sharing the same HVS-I/II haplotype (i.e. CRS-263)....

Moroccans, Tunisians and the Tuareg from Sahel were found to be much more diverse than the Libyan Tuareg, with haplotype diversities of 0.577, 0.633 and 0.595, respectively.
[/QB]

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quote:

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That is really suspicious. Now they may put it out there that the intent of the study was to the origin of H1 IN Africa. But even that is wrong, the data shows Tunisia NOT Morocco has the highest H1 diversity in Africa.

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quote:

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[/QB]

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Posts: 2508 | From: . | Registered: Nov 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

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PC correlates and component loadings (Figure 2) showed a pattern similar to average hg frequencies (Table 2) in both large meta-population sets, with the LBK dataset grouping with Europeans because of a lack of mitochondrial African hgs (L and M1) and preHV, and elevated frequencies of hg V.

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Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

Mitochondrial Haplogroup H1 in North Africa: An Early Holocene Arrival from Iberia

Antonio Torroni5 , Alessandro Achilli et al

quote:

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Originally posted by Oshun:

quote:

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Originally posted by the lioness,:
we are looking at a chart here. The legend at the bottom of the chart informs us that column (b) is Haplotype diversity (H-b) and we can plainly see that the diversity of H in Libyan Tuaregs is significantly lower than all the other groups.
The is plainly stated in the article:

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0013378

The genetic diversity of the Libyan H1 mtDNAs appeared to be extremely low, with 91% of the H1 individuals sharing the same HVS-I/II haplotype (i.e. CRS-263)....

Moroccans, Tunisians and the Tuareg from Sahel were found to be much more diverse than the Libyan Tuareg, with haplotype diversities of 0.577, 0.633 and 0.595, respectively.

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Question: Didn't xyyman say up there that it was the Tunisians and not the Tuareg from Sahel that had the most diversity:

quote:

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That is really suspicious. Now they may put it out there that the intent of the study was to the origin of H1 IN Africa. But even that is wrong, the data shows Tunisia NOT Morocco has the highest H1 diversity in Africa.

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Originally posted by Ish Gebor:

--Brotherton P1, Haak W, Templeton J,

Nat Commun. 2013;4:1764. doi: 10.1038/ncomms2656.

Neolithic mitochondrial haplogroup H genomes and the genetic origins of Europeans.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23612305

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quote:

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Neolithic mitochondrial haplogroup H genomes and the genetic origins of Europeans.


Brotherton P1, Haak W, Templeton J,

Nat Commun. 2013;4:1764. doi: 10.1038/ncomms2656


Phylogeographic studies suggest that mt hg H arrived in Europe from the Near East before the Last Glacial Maximum (22,000 BP), and survived in glacial refugia in Southwest Europe before undergoing a post-glacial re-expansion4, 12.

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Haplogroup H, the most frequent mtDNA haplogroup in Europe at 45% in modern Europeans on average, seems likely to have arisen in the Near East c. 18 kya. Its founder age in Europe is currently estimated at c. 15,000 years ago, suggesting an entry after the LGM.
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The Archaeogenetics of Europe

Pedro Soares1, Alessandro Achilli2, 3, Ornella Semino3, William Davies4, Vincent Macaulay5, Hans-Jürgen Bandelt6, Antonio Torroni3, Martin B. Richards1, ,
Show more
doi:10.1016/j.cub.2009.1

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ish Gebor:

--Laura R. Botiguéa,1, Brenna M. Henn et al

Gene flow from North Africa contributes to differential human genetic diversity in southern Europe (July 16, 2013)

focusing on the North African component at k = 6, we found that a migration event from North Africa to Europe would have occurred at least 6–10 generations ago (∼240–300 ya) in Spain, and at least 5–7 generations ago in France and Italy (Fig. 4).

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Whereas inferred IBD sharing does not indicate directionality, the North African samples that have highest IBD sharing with Iberian populations also tend to have the lowest proportion of the European cluster in ADMIXTURE (Fig. 1), e.g., Saharawi, Tunisian Berbers, and South Moroccans. For example, the Andalucians share many IBD segments with the Tunisians (Fig. 3), who present extremely minimal levels of European ancestry. This suggests that gene flow occurred from Africa to Europe rather than the other way around.

[...]

Alternative models of gene flow: Migration(s) from the Near East likely have had an effect on genetic diversity between southern and northern Europe (discussed below), but do not appear to explain the gradients of African ancestry in Europe. A model of gene flow from the Near East into both Europe and North Africa, such as a strong demic wave during the Neolithic, could result in shared haplotypes between Europe and North Africa. However, we observe haplotype sharing between Europe and the Near East follows a southeast to southwest gradient, while sharing between Europe and the Maghreb follows the opposite pattern (Fig. 2); this suggests that gene flow from the Near East cannot account for the sharing with North Africa.

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quote:

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Haplogroup H dominates present-day Western European mitochondrial DNA variability (>40%), yet was less common (~19%) among Early Neolithic farmers (~5450 BC) and virtually absent in Mesolithic hunter-gatherers.

Here we investigate this major component of the maternal population history of modern Europeans and sequence 39 complete haplogroup H mitochondrial genomes from ancient human remains. We then compare this 'real-time' genetic data with cultural changes taking place between the Early Neolithic (~5450 BC) and Bronze Age (~2200 BC) in Central Europe. Our results reveal that the current diversity and distribution of haplogroup H were largely established by the Mid Neolithic (~4000 BC), but with substantial genetic contributions from subsequent pan-European cultures such as the Bell Beakers expanding out of Iberia in the Late Neolithic (~2800 BC). Dated haplogroup H genomes allow us to reconstruct the recent evolutionary history of haplogroup H and reveal a mutation rate 45% higher than current estimates for human mitochondria.

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Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

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The Mesolithic–Neolithic transition in southern Iberia


Resumen: New data and a review of historiographic information from Neolithic sites of the Malaga and Algarve coasts (southern Iberian Peninsula) and from the Maghreb (North Africa) reveal the existence of a Neolithic settlement at least from 7.5 cal ka BP. The agricultural and pastoralist food producing economy of that population rapidly replaced the coastal economies of the Mesolithic populations. The timing of this population and economic turnover coincided withmajor changes in the continental and marine ecosystems, including upwelling intensity, sea-level changes and increased aridity in the Sahara and along the Iberian coast. These changes likely impacted the subsistence strategies of the Mesolithic populations along the Iberian seascapes and resulted in abandonments manifested as sedimentary hiatuses in some areas during the Mesolithic–Neolithic transition. The rapid expansion and area of dispersal of the early Neolithic traits suggest the use of marine technology. Different evidences for a Maghrebian origin for the first colonists have been summarized.


The recognition of an early North-African Neolithic influence in Southern Iberia and the Maghreb is vital for understanding the appearance and development of the Neolithic in Western Europe. Our review suggests links between climate change, resource allocation, and population turnover.

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Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ish Gebor:


--Laura R. Botiguéa,1, Brenna M. Henn et al

Gene flow from North Africa contributes to differential human genetic diversity in southern Europe (July 16, 2013)

focusing on the North African component at k = 6, we found that a migration event from North Africa to Europe would have occurred at least 6–10 generations ago (∼240–300 ya) in Spain, and at least 5–7 generations ago in France and Italy (Fig. 4).]

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Posts: 42930 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

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Originally posted by Ish Gebor:


--Laura R. Botiguéa,1, Brenna M. Henn et al

Gene flow from North Africa contributes to differential human genetic diversity in southern Europe (July 16, 2013)

focusing on the North African component at k = 6, we found that a migration event from North Africa to Europe would have occurred at least 6–10 generations ago (∼240–300 ya) in Spain, and at least 5–7 generations ago in France and Italy (Fig. 4).]

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you got a problem with this? you posted it

tell us moor about this migration

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Alternative models of gene flow: Migration(s) from the Near East likely have had an effect on genetic diversity between southern and northern Europe (discussed below), but do not appear to explain the gradients of African ancestry in Europe. A model of gene flow from the Near East into both Europe and North Africa, such as a strong demic wave during the Neolithic, could result in shared haplotypes between Europe and North Africa. However, we observe haplotype sharing between Europe and the Near East follows a southeast to southwest gradient, while sharing between Europe and the Maghreb follows the opposite pattern (Fig. 2); this suggests that gene flow from the Near East cannot account for the sharing with North Africa.

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Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ish Gebor:

quote:

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Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

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Originally posted by Ish Gebor:


--Laura R. Botiguéa,1, Brenna M. Henn et al

Gene flow from North Africa contributes to differential human genetic diversity in southern Europe (July 16, 2013)

focusing on the North African component at k = 6, we found that a migration event from North Africa to Europe would have occurred at least 6–10 generations ago (∼240–300 ya) in Spain, and at least 5–7 generations ago in France and Italy (Fig. 4).]

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you got a problem with this? you posted it

tell us moor about this migration

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Yes lioness, focusing on the North African component at k = 6


I posted this as well, and that is what makes it problamtic.

quote:

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Alternative models of gene flow: Migration(s) from the Near East likely have had an effect on genetic diversity between southern and northern Europe (discussed below), but do not appear to explain the gradients of African ancestry in Europe. A model of gene flow from the Near East into both Europe and North Africa, such as a strong demic wave during the Neolithic, could result in shared haplotypes between Europe and North Africa. However, we observe haplotype sharing between Europe and the Near East follows a southeast to southwest gradient, while sharing between Europe and the Maghreb follows the opposite pattern (Fig. 2); this suggests that gene flow from the Near East cannot account for the sharing with North Africa.

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--Laura R. Botiguéa,1, Brenna M. Henn et al

Gene flow from North Africa contributes to differential human genetic diversity in southern Europe (July 16, 2013)

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An alternative model is that the patterns of allele sharing among North Africans and Europeans are actually due to shared ancestry among Southern Europeans and the Near East. Whereas migration(s) from the Near East have likely had an effect on genetic diversity between southern and northern Europe, they do not appear to explain the gradients of African ancestry in Europe.

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Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
^It's a model they used. They used several models. Several models had a different out come.


Then they go on, writing this...

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An alternative model is that the patterns of allele sharing among North Africans and Europeans are actually due to shared ancestry among Southern Europeans and the Near East. Whereas migration(s) from the Near East have likely had an effect on genetic diversity between southern and northern Europe, they do not appear to explain the gradients of African ancestry in Europe.

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Posts: 42930 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

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Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
^It's a model they used. They used several models. Several models had a different out come.


Then they go on, writing this...

quote:

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An alternative model is that the patterns of allele sharing among North Africans and Europeans are actually due to shared ancestry among Southern Europeans and the Near East. Whereas migration(s) from the Near East have likely had an effect on genetic diversity between southern and northern Europe, they do not appear to explain the gradients of African ancestry in Europe.

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Again,

we found that a migration event from North Africa to Europe would have occurred at least 6–10 generations ago (∼240–300 ya) in Spain,

That confirms it was not from the Near East is was from Africa 300 years ago, same thing no contradiction

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The third hypothesis suggests that increased genetic diversity is the result of migrations from the African continent into southern Europe (8, 9). These hypotheses are not mutually exclusive; however, we focus on testing a hypothesis of gene flow from Africa to Europe, which has received the least amount of attention and may be the easiest to detect due to the recent time frame of the proposed demographic event.

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Cross-validation indicated k = 4 as the best fit, but higher density datasets (25) and higher values of k continue to identify population-specific ancestries (SI Appendix, Fig. S2); we therefore conservatively focused on k = 3:6 ancestral populations

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quote:

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An alternative model is that the patterns of allele sharing among North Africans and Europeans are actually due to shared ancestry among Southern Europeans and the Near East. Whereas migration(s) from the Near East have likely had an effect on genetic diversity between southern and northern Europe, they do not appear to explain the gradients of African ancestry in Europe.

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Europe. A model of gene flow from the Near East into both Europe and North Africa, such as a strong demic wave during the Neolithic, could result in shared haplotypes between Europe and North Africa. However, we observe haplotype sharing between Europe and the Near East follows a southeast to southwest gradient, while sharing between Europe and the Maghreb follows the opposite pattern (Fig. 2); this suggests that gene flow from the Near East cannot account for the sharing with North Africa.

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Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ish Gebor:

quote:

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Europe. A model of gene flow from the Near East into both Europe and North Africa, such as a strong demic wave during the Neolithic, could result in shared haplotypes between Europe and North Africa. However, we observe haplotype sharing between Europe and the Near East follows a southeast to southwest gradient, while sharing between Europe and the Maghreb follows the opposite pattern (Fig. 2); this suggests that gene flow from the Near East cannot account for the sharing with North Africa.

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--Laura R. Botiguéa,1, Brenna M. Henn et al

Gene flow from North Africa contributes to differential human genetic diversity in southern Europe (July 16, 2013) [/QB]

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quote:

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we found that a migration event from North Africa to Europe would have occurred at least 6–10 generations ago (∼240–300 ya) in Spain,

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Posts: 42930 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

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Originally posted by Ish Gebor:

quote:

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Europe. A model of gene flow from the Near East into both Europe and North Africa, such as a strong demic wave during the Neolithic, could result in shared haplotypes between Europe and North Africa. However, we observe haplotype sharing between Europe and the Near East follows a southeast to southwest gradient, while sharing between Europe and the Maghreb follows the opposite pattern (Fig. 2); this suggests that gene flow from the Near East cannot account for the sharing with North Africa.

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--Laura R. Botiguéa,1, Brenna M. Henn et al

Gene flow from North Africa contributes to differential human genetic diversity in southern Europe (July 16, 2013)

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^^ see this?

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we found that a migration event from North Africa to Europe would have occurred at least 6–10 generations ago (∼240–300 ya) in Spain,

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and this, ^
both statements fit together. They both say from Africa to Europe, not the Middle East, both say this. It's the same thing [/QB]

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The pattern of North African ancestry at k =7 remains very similar to the pattern at k=6 with the estimate of admixture time decreasing 1 generation on average for Iberian populations (Fig. S13). Since population structure, continuous gene flow, assortative mating, and errors in assignments may considerably increase the variance (and thus reduce the effective migration time), we consider these time estimates to be lower bounds: under all the proposed variance-increasing scenarios, there must be a substantial proportion of migration that has occurred before the effective migration time, possibly much earlier.

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The third hypothesis suggests that increased genetic diversity is the result of migrations from the African continent into southern Europe (8, 9). These hypotheses are not mutually exclusive; however, we focus on testing a hypothesis of gene flow from Africa to Europe, which has received the least amount of attention and may be the easiest to detect due to the recent time frame of the proposed demographic event.

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Cross-validation indicated k = 4 as the best fit, but higher density datasets (25) and higher values of k continue to identify population-specific ancestries (SI Appendix, Fig. S2); we therefore conservatively focused on k = 3:6 ancestral populations

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Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Oshun:
Ish Gebor can you explain those last 2 quotes in more laymen's terms? I'm a little puzzled... why would they think it'd be easiest to detect the gene flow b/c of the recent time frame if they admit it could be much earlier???

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Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by the lioness,:




there is a division of the maternal line between Sub Saharan Africans and North Africans.
Haplogroup H shows a large overlap between North Africans and Europeans
but not with other Africans.
Maternally a German is more similar to a Tuareg than a Sub Saharan is,

Notably the Germans have H frequencies about 45%,
West Sahelians and Moroccan berbers about half that.

The only people in Africa with higher frequencies are the Libyan Tuaregs. However the diversity there is very low.

The Libyan Tuaregs are highly varied looking. The Niger Tuaregs though tend to look comparatively more similar to Sub Saharans and have much greater genetic affinities to them than do the Libyan Tuaregs

see:

Linking the sub-Saharan and West Eurasian gene pools: maternal and paternal heritage of the Tuareg nomads from the African Sahel

Luísa Pereira, 2010

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Libyan Tuaregs and a Turk/Arab Mulato

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