quote:Being at the western fringe of Europe, Iberia had a peculiar prehistory and a complex pattern of Neolithization. A few studies, all based on modern populations, reported the presence of DNA of likely African origin in this region, generally concluding it was the result of recent gene flow, probably during the Islamic period. Here, we provide evidence of much older gene flow from Africa to Iberia by sequencing whole genomes from four human remains from northern Portugal and southern Spain dated around 4000 years BP (from the Middle Neolithic to the Bronze Age). We found one of them to carry an unequivocal sub-Saharan mitogenome of most probably West or West-Central African origin, to our knowledge never reported before in prehistoric remains outside Africa. Our analyses of ancient nuclear genomes show small but significant levels of sub-Saharan African affinity in several ancient Iberian samples, which indicates that what we detected was not an occasional individual phenomenon, but an admixture event recognizable at the population level. We interpret this result as evidence of an early migration process from Africa into the Iberian Peninsula through a western route, possibly across the Strait of Gibraltar.
A man from Andalusia, ~1600 BC, had mt hg L2a1 (specifically pre-L2a1l), though he had no African autosomal ancestry. They speculate that a combination of low coverage and reference bias could prevent some minor African ancestry from being detected if it was present in this case (he is marginally shifted away from Africans in D stats), or it could just be diluted over time to ~zero.
We already had an Early Bronze Age/Bell Beaker L1b woman from a previous study, slightly earlier than this one.
Spanish Middle Neolithic and Chalcolithic individuals tended to get small but significant SSA shift in D stats of the form (Ancient Iberian, LaBrana; African, Chimpanzee), while Spanish Early Neolithic and Portuguese Middle Neolithic didn't.
They used South African ancient samples for this (Schlebusch et al not Skoglund et al samples) - testing specifically for SSA rather than North African ancestry. Taforalt is in the ADMIXTURE analysis but not the D stats. Not notably different results whether 2000 year old Ballito Bay (~San) or Iron Age (~Bantu) AFAICT. Would have liked to see more different samples used but oh well. Not clear exactly what kind of signal we are looking at here, it doesn't show up at all in ADMIXTURE for Iberia MN-Chl.
Because there are no pre-Neolithic samples from southern Iberia, they can't say how early this gene flow occurred - could have been around in the Mesolithic already. (And of course doesn't have to be all in one period either.)
Not a big surprise, but definitely interesting.
Posts: 660 | From: Canada | Registered: Mar 2017
| IP: Logged |
posted
This is a really cool finding! Though if I were conducting a study like this, I'd use West African samples as proxies for the SSA contribution.
Also good to see a large chunk of Taforalt-related ancestry being replicated in the Levantine aDNA samples. And then there's the Taforalt-related ancestry in the Ethiopian sample from 4.5 kya (Mota?).
posted
LIE!!! = "West or West-Central African origin, to our knowledge never reported before in prehistoric remains outside Africa" = Dr Eva Fernandez-Dominguez - Durham University - http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=009465 Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on 15-06-2016 15:55:
Fully analysis with translation is on ESR. Search!!
Her early work covers Iberia since she graduated from Univ Barcelona.
Her recent works is more broad based. She is based in England now. The most notable recent owrk covers the early Neolithics in the Levant which also has SSA haplogroups.
All is on ESR..."your one stop shop". Polimorfismos de DNA mitocondrial en poblaciones antiguas de la cuenca mediterránea
huh?! MORE LIES!! = "had mt hg L2a1 (specifically pre-L2a1l), though he had no African autosomal ancestry" = Luxmanda with 60% European ancestry carrying African mtDNA L.
LIE AGAIN!!! = " Because there are no pre-Neolithic samples from southern Iberia" = Is La Brana Mesolithic?
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
I don't get these Europeans with how obtuse they can be. The statement "had mt hg L2a1 (specifically pre-L2a1l), though he had no African autosomal ancestry"...knowing that Luxmanda also carried mtDNA L and MOSTLY Europeans autosomal ancestry. Wouldn't it be common sense to deduce that maybe just maybe those autosomes aren't "European"? SMH? Man! What arrogance!
I don't get these Europeans with how obtuse they can be. The statement "had mt hg L2a1 (specifically pre-L2a1l), though he had no African autosomal ancestry"...knowing that Luxmanda also carried mtDNA L and MOSTLY Europeans autosomal ancestry. Wouldn't it be common sense to deduce that maybe just maybe those autosomes aren't "European"? SMH? Man! What arrogance!
After all here are two almost identical human beings around the same time, both carrying majority "European" autosomes and both carrying mtDNA L. If I was a betting man I would lay money they ....are related. Duh!!!
My god! EUROPEANS!!!! SMH.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Ask your doctor about treatment for dementia, xyyman. LaBrana1 is from Mesolithic *northern* Spain. Luxmanda has 62% *SSA* ancestry. Not knowing about old low-quality results (if the reported L2 is in fact L2a1) is ignorance not lying.
The part in quotes is the abstract of the article. The part not in quotes is my commentary. That should be obvious.
Posts: 660 | From: Canada | Registered: Mar 2017
| IP: Logged |
posted
^Can't wait for that paper on the ancient south Saharan(Niger) to come out. I think the abstract quoted the remains is from 10,000bc near sub-saharan Africa. And carried mtDNA N!!! Here comes another bombshell. He! He!
No Luxmanda is 60% Sardinian(the reference used)
quote:Originally posted by capra: Ask your doctor about treatment for dementia, xyyman. LaBrana1 is from Mesolithic *northern* Spain. Luxmanda has 62% *SSA* ancestry. Not knowing about old low-quality results (if the reported L2 is in fact L2a1) is ignorance not lying.
The part in quotes is the abstract of the article. The part not in quotes is my commentary.
Ignorance not lying?....yeah riiight! They are being paid for these articles and they are ignorant? I call that either incompetence or outright lying!
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
If you want to once again lie about Luxmanda, xyyman, after being corrected repeatedly, please do it another thread.
Posts: 660 | From: Canada | Registered: Mar 2017
| IP: Logged |
quote:Being at the western fringe of Europe, Iberia had a peculiar prehistory and a complex pattern of Neolithization. A few studies, all based on modern populations, reported the presence of DNA of likely African origin in this region, generally concluding it was the result of recent gene flow, probably during the Islamic period. Here, we provide evidence of much older gene flow from Africa to Iberia by sequencing whole genomes from four human remains from northern Portugal and southern Spain dated around 4000 years BP (from the Middle Neolithic to the Bronze Age). We found one of them to carry an unequivocal sub-Saharan mitogenome of most probably West or West-Central African origin, to our knowledge never reported before in prehistoric remains outside Africa. Our analyses of ancient nuclear genomes show small but significant levels of sub-Saharan African affinity in several ancient Iberian samples, which indicates that what we detected was not an occasional individual phenomenon, but an admixture event recognizable at the population level. We interpret this result as evidence of an early migration process from Africa into the Iberian Peninsula through a western route, possibly across the Strait of Gibraltar.
A man from Andalusia, ~1600 BC, had mt hg L2a1 (specifically pre-L2a1l), though he had no African autosomal ancestry. They speculate that a combination of low coverage and reference bias could prevent some minor African ancestry from being detected if it was present in this case (he is marginally shifted away from Africans in D stats), or it could just be diluted over time to ~zero.
We already had an Early Bronze Age/Bell Beaker L1b woman from a previous study, slightly earlier than this one.
Spanish Middle Neolithic and Chalcolithic individuals tended to get small but significant SSA shift in D stats of the form (Ancient Iberian, LaBrana; African, Chimpanzee), while Spanish Early Neolithic and Portuguese Middle Neolithic didn't.
They used South African ancient samples for this (Schlebusch et al not Skoglund et al samples) - testing specifically for SSA rather than North African ancestry. Taforalt is in the ADMIXTURE analysis but not the D stats. Not notably different results whether 2000 year old Ballito Bay (~San) or Iron Age (~Bantu) AFAICT. Would have liked to see more different samples used but oh well. Not clear exactly what kind of signal we are looking at here, it doesn't show up at all in ADMIXTURE for Iberia MN-Chl.
Because there are no pre-Neolithic samples from southern Iberia, they can't say how early this gene flow occurred - could have been around in the Mesolithic already. (And of course doesn't have to be all in one period either.)
posted
They were early Neolithic samples. But LD tests should be fine enough to estimate preneolithic admixture. Nonetheless, as far as south Iberia is concerned 6300bc is preneolithic.
Posts: 1781 | From: New York | Registered: Jul 2016
| IP: Logged |
posted
TOR is 5200-4800 BC, Los Botijos sample from first preprint wasn't carbon dated. Are there LD dates that I'm forgetting?
Posts: 660 | From: Canada | Registered: Mar 2017
| IP: Logged |
posted
Did you click the link? The dates are there from LD decay. 3 different waves of African Admixture before ~5000bc, the earliest being around 8300ya.
But it’s interesting, cuz I was also able to detect a respectable amount of African ancestry in villabruna, so maybe geneflow was somewhat constant. But if that’s the case I need to figure out why it’s so easy for such a deep history of admixture to go undetected.Posts: 1781 | From: New York | Registered: Jul 2016
| IP: Logged |
posted
I did go to that thread, but apparently I didn't read all the way through the post you directly linked to.
Are those standard errors larger than the actual amplitude there? I don't know what those results are supposed to look like.
If there was an admixture event 46 generations prior then it may have taken place in the Aegean.
Posts: 660 | From: Canada | Registered: Mar 2017
| IP: Logged |
posted
Yes, jackknife. Hence the disclaimer. To which a few chromosomes yielded much earlier dates. I was surprised to have even gotten an output with samples that old.... but now that these guys (OP) are available I’ll see what I can do when I get home.
Posts: 1781 | From: New York | Registered: Jul 2016
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Elmaestro: Did you click the link? The dates are there from LD decay. 3 different waves of African Admixture before ~5000bc, the earliest being around 8300ya.
But it’s interesting, cuz I was also able to detect a respectable amount of African ancestry in villabruna , so maybe geneflow was somewhat constant. But if that’s the case I need to figure out why it’s so easy for such a deep history of admixture to go undetected.
Xyyman is loooking less and less crazy everyday.
Perhaps the results from this Iberian study suggest a very long history of African admixture in Europe. The world of aDNA studies somehow seem to know that this is a possibility that they should take into account; however, their political instinct cause them to dismiss it. Here is some commentary on Villabruna which seems to show just that:
So the first interesting thing is that Villabruna man's body proportions are intermediate between modern Europeans and Africans. In fact, he generally clusters with North Africans on several skeletal metrics, although facially he is Caucasian . This doesn't mean he is <North African>and it doesn't mean mixed, but it does suggest some meaningfully deep ancestry in a sufficiently warm climate, possibly the Southern Near East (?). Bell Beaker Blogger: Villabruna
Always relying on the Near East as a Final solution to the crisis of African admixture.
Posts: 288 | From: Asia | Registered: Mar 2016
| IP: Logged |
posted
Xyyman is far from ...crazy. lol! xyyman is way ahead of the game. I had this figured out about 10 years ago. I got my hand on many research papers and saw the trend. Some researchers broke rank and were quickly ostracized. And their papers buried and made insignificant. The researcher mocked in academia. The trend was simple to see.
1. Never directly compare Africa with Southern Europe genetically. Always use the "near East" as an intermediary. 2. The few papers that did showed clear South to north affiliation. Eg Kefi et al, Pillars of Hercules, Lazaridis 2015 etc. 3. It made geographic sense. Why would Africans cross into Southern Arabia and NOT into Iberia or Sardinia/Malta/Italy. When there is clear line of sight(land mass) to Iberia. Keeping in mind Europeans and Levantines looked just like them(black) 5000bc ala La Brana and Bronze age Levant etc . Also Keep in mind there was human occupation in North Africa 90,000years ago. Hublin et al? 4. Only the ignorant or deceitful would not acknowledge that. But then again we are talking about modern Europeans. Eg George Busby. When investigating R1b-M269. He was afraid to show results when comparing R1b-M269 between Europe to Africa. He mentioned no latitudinal cline but showed no data but wasn't afraid to show data with no longitudinal cline because he knew the Steppes Hypothesis was nonsense. Of course there is indisputable evidence mtDNA H (which most modern European women are) is older in Africa. So the ludicrous claim is ONLY men migrated from the Steppes. (off with their heads and on to their women - Haak et al!!!! But the fact is the R1b-M269 haplotype is older in Iberia than the East lol!. SMH these people and their fantasy ideas. The reporter was correct!
Some researchers either gave up and was given a job in the "north pole". Lol!
This is not rocket science.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
My memory does not serve me well, nor do I have access to any of my databases atm.
But besides Clyde winters, Which archeologists/researchers provided leading postulations for early Neolithic culture being brought to Europe from North Africa? I’m tryna see somn real quick.
Posts: 1781 | From: New York | Registered: Jul 2016
| IP: Logged |
posted
Larry Angel (1972) Biological Relations of Egyptians and Eastern Mediterranean Populations during pre-dynastic and Dynastic Times, courtesy of Journal of Human Evolution, pg 307-313.
Brace et al. (2005), The questionable contribution of the Neolithic and the Bronze Age to European craniofacial form.
These studies talk about craniometric links between Africans and the first farmers of southern Europe.
Posts: 288 | From: Asia | Registered: Mar 2016
| IP: Logged |
posted
@myman ^^ the Master You know. If it wasn't for your moniker I would put my pinky on the chopping block and lay a bet that you are a Europeans pretending to be a brotha. Why? Smoke and mirrors.
Leading researcher aside from Dr Winters? BTW - Dr Winters view is that the Black Europeans were driven out/killed out by the invading Steppes invaders.
Neverthelsss - Arnaiz-Villens and his minions -G. Sergi -DNATribes - Henn. Yes, Henn, Brenna straddles the fence. Look at her paper on IBD - Hublin et al -
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
I taught you everything you know... you should be thanking me old man lol.
As if I’m not the only one providing tangeability to your theories. Just kick back and wait for me to make the connections you aren’t capable of making without misinterpreting or straight up lying. 😂
“Smokes and mirrors” you lucky I haven’t had the time to show much of a projection that is, coming from you and your haphazard GWAS assessments lol.
Thanks btw
Posts: 1781 | From: New York | Registered: Jul 2016
| IP: Logged |
posted
Linstädter et al (2012), "Neolithisation process within the Alboran territory: Models and possible African impact" for African Neolithic influence on Spain. Lots of potential earlier and later stuff (Castelnovan, Bell Beaker).
Posts: 660 | From: Canada | Registered: Mar 2017
| IP: Logged |
The origins of agriculture in North-West Africa: macro-botanical remains from Epipalaeolithic and Early Neolithic levels of Ifri Oudadane (Morocco) Jacob Morale
Abstract
This research aims to shed light on the early stages of agricultural development in Northern Africa through the analysis of the rich macro-botanical assemblages obtained from Ifri Oudadane, an Epipalaeolithic–Early Neolithic site from North-East Morocco. Results indicate the presence of domesticated plants, cereals (Hordeum vulgare, Triticum monococcum/dicoccum, Triticum durum and Triticum aestivum/durum) and pulses (Lens culinaris and Pisum sativum) in the Early Neolithic. One lentil has been dated to 7611 ± 37 cal BP representing the oldest direct date of a domesticated plant seed in Morocco and, by extension, in North Africa. Similarities in both radiocarbon dates and crop assemblages from Early Neolithic sites in Northern Morocco and the Iberian Peninsula suggest a simultaneous East to West maritime spread of agriculture along the shores of the Western Mediterranean. Wild plants were abundantly collected in both the Epipalaeolithic and the Early Neolithic periods pointing to the important role of these resources during the two periods. In addition to fruits and seeds that could have been consumed by both humans and domesticated animals, fragments of esparto grass (Stipa tenacissima) rhizomes have been identified. This is a western Mediterranean native plant that may have been used as a source of fibres for basketry. Highlights
Posts: 42920 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
" As if I’m not the only one providing tangeability to your theories. Just kick back and wait for me to make the connections you aren’t capable of making without misinterpreting or straight up lying." ....He! He! He! SMH. Now doe sthat make any sense what you just said there? Man! what a gamer! I just can't put my finger on it. You come across so much like Explorer. Wordy sentences but when you dissect the sentences some makes no sense. Smoke and Mirrors.
Taught me? How long have you been on here? Now if you were The Explorer...we could talk. "On the trail of Cro-magnon man" by the Explorer one of the best thread on this site. Lioness should bump it.
I am unto you brother. "ElMaestro roughing it".......SMH
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
The origins of agriculture in North-West Africa: macro-botanical remains from Epipalaeolithic and Early Neolithic levels of Ifri Oudadane (Morocco) Jacob Morale
Abstract
This research aims to shed light on the early stages of agricultural development in Northern Africa through the analysis of the rich macro-botanical assemblages obtained from Ifri Oudadane, an Epipalaeolithic–Early Neolithic site from North-East Morocco. Results indicate the presence of domesticated plants, cereals (Hordeum vulgare, Triticum monococcum/dicoccum, Triticum durum and Triticum aestivum/durum) and pulses (Lens culinaris and Pisum sativum) in the Early Neolithic. One lentil has been dated to 7611 ± 37 cal BP representing the oldest direct date of a domesticated plant seed in Morocco and, by extension, in North Africa. Similarities in both radiocarbon datesand crop assemblages from Early Neolithic sites in Northern Morocco and the Iberian Peninsula suggest a simultaneous East to West maritime spread..... xyyman: HA! HA! HA! HA! of agriculture along the shores of the Western Mediterranean. Wild plants were abundantly collected in both the Epipalaeolithic and the Early Neolithic periods pointing to the important role of these resources during the two periods. In addition to fruits and seeds that could have been consumed by both humans and domesticated animals, fragments of esparto grass (Stipa tenacissima) rhizomes have been identified. This is a western Mediterranean native plant that may have been used as a source of fibres for basketry. Highlights [/Q][/
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
You and your delusion of Basal Eurasian migrating from the Near East. lol! You don't get it! Lazaridis showed his hand in 2014 when he claimed "he cannot disentangle BE from YRI" but went ahead and chose Bedouins as the proxy for BE/EEF. That statement went way over your head and ....YOU are teaching me? GTFOH! Clown!
In 2015 he came back and said that "there is a North-South cline and NOT an south East to North west cline. HE! He! He! . See chart above. What is wrong with you man. I will let you in on a little secret. Sssshhhh! (low voice) "Dr Reich knew it all along". That siw hy he samples the way he does.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Cannot “Disentangle basal Eurasian from YRI?” Lmao. Brother you ain’t onto shit. 🤣
Crazy you’re talking shit about Krause/Reich while simultaneously subscribing to lazaridis’ shitty model of Supra Eurasian ancestry. But I’m not even gonna get into that with you. I suggest you pm tukuer about Lazaridis 2014’s Basal Eurasian and keep quiet. Like I said you’re only fortunate that I don’t have time for you.
On a more relevant note: We now have evidence of genetic continuity heading into the Neolithic from Oranian industries in Morocco. No real evidence of turnover or simultaneous neolithization (with Southern Europe) from the near east in North Africa genetically. Cortez Sanchez (et al 2012 ) lays out paleoenvironmental changes that’ll support south-> North (vía Gibraltar) movement starting at around 8.2kya. I doubt my events have anything to do with Aegen maritime history.
Posts: 1781 | From: New York | Registered: Jul 2016
| IP: Logged |
posted
Oh! Still waiting on that ....script(wink)...shyster!
BTW @ newbies. I came across some tools to plot ADMIXTURE . It is really simple. Now. There are several ways to convert the Abusir bam/fastq files to plink format to plot in ADMIXTURE. We can do the same with these dataset on the ancient Iberians ....WITHOUT African autosomes but African uniparental haplogroups. Wink! wink!
The easier process I just came across 1. Get the Bam/Fastq files of the ancient individuals say the Iberians above..OP 2. Download and install the following software. These are all done on a LINUX/UNIX/UBUNTU System - Freebayes, Plink19/Plink2, BWA, ADMIXTURE, R, and the human refrence-hg19 in fasta format. 3. Index the hg19 using BWA to setup you reference aligner using hg19 fasta file 4. Verify the Abusir sample sets(x3) are in bam format and in the same folder as the aligned hg19 packet(Indexed). 5. Create you Abusir VCf files using Freebayes. Eg script freebayes -f hg19.fa JK2888udg.fixedRG.bam > jk2888-from-full-bam.vcf 6. This will kick out the Abusir file(jk2888-from-full-bam.vcf) to run through the next software. ...PLINK1.9 7. Using PLINK to create your Abusir plink files (bim,bed, fam) of the 3 abusir. One at a time. 8. Merge the 3 Abusir samples from PLINK with you database files also in PLINK format. HGDP or whichever you want to use. 9. With the new merged file run it through ADMIXTURE to get you Q file 10 Running your Q file with R software to get your barplot.
I am still working on labelling. More to come.
BTW running to freebayes can take up to 8 hours or more on the larger Abusir mummy file.
I will post pictures and a more detailed tutorial when I have the time. But it is all there above. There are other methods but so far I found this is the cleanest and fastest using Freebayes and BWA. Installing the programs is a bear.
Oh! No.5 is simply stating "Freebayes to take file jk2888udg.fixedRG.bam, align it to the hg19 reference and kick out the VCf version of the abusir file" ...which can be used in PLINK which in turn can be used in ADMIXTURE. SIMPLE!!!!
Your file naming convention is up to you.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Mansamusa: Always relying on the Near East as a Final solution to the crisis of African admixture.
Ah yes, failing to get the results you'd like is morally equivalent to genocide.
I'm out of here, see y'all outside the bubble.
So sensitive. Can't take a few mild NAZI jokes? C'mon man!
Your people (Reich, Krause, & Co.) need to stop seeing ancient Eurasians spreading their seed each time they step out of their labs.
Posts: 288 | From: Asia | Registered: Mar 2016
| IP: Logged |
posted
The mainstream media is now reporting on this:
quote: Ancient people from sub-Saharan Africa may have crossed the Strait of Gibraltar into current-day Spain 1300 years earlier than we thought. A genetic analysis of human samples is the first evidence of such a migration in prehistoric times.
“We are finding that the Strait of Gibraltar was not a barrier for human contact, migration or gene flow between Africa and Spain,” says Gloria Maria Gonzalez Fortes at the University of Ferrara in Italy. Previous research suggested that African genes flowed to Spain and Portugal during the Islamic occupation of Spain, which started in the 8th century and lasted about 800 years.
“We found that it may be from a time much earlier than that,” says Gonzalez Fortes. She and her team analysed the DNA from 17 ancient people found on the Iberian Peninsula, from the south of Spain to the north of Portugal, carbon dated to 3000 to 4500 years old. They compared their mitochondrial DNA to archaeological samples from South Africa.
posted
Woooowww! Dr Winters always said Grimaldi man was Khoisan.
"They compared their mitochondrial DNA to archaeological samples from South Africa."
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
This is funny. Right Capra? Lol! Cross into Yemen but not Iberia? At least this one is not a liar.
"Ms Gonzalez Fortes said people were already building ships some 4,000 years ago, so there is nothing to suggest they could not cross the Strait of Gibraltar"
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
We interpret this result as evidence of an early migration process from Africa into the Iberian Peninsula through a western route, possibly across the Strait of Gibraltar.
xyyman if people form Africa went into Iberia in prehistoric times what is the significance of it? We need straight forward answer to this, not wise ass stuff or liar this liar that. I don't want to hear about liars and exposing conspiracies. I want to to know what the significance of Africans going into Iberia is. Why should we care about it?
Posts: 42920 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
why Should we care about mtDNA H entering Morocco in the Holocene? ala Achilli et al
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
An early Aurignacian arrival in southwestern Europe- Miguel Cortés-Sánchez,(2019)
Abstract Westernmost Europe constitutes a key location in determining the timing of the replacement of Neanderthals by anatomically modern humans (AMHs). In this study, the replacement of late Mousterian industries by Aurignacian ones at the site of Bajondillo Cave (Málaga, southern Spain) is reported. On the basis of Bayesian analyses, a total of 26 radiocarbon dates, including 17 new ones, show that replacement at Bajondillo took place in the millennia centring on ~45–43 calibrated thousand years before the present (cal ka BP)—well before the onset of Heinrich event 4 (~40.2–38.3 cal ka BP). These dates indicate that the arrival of AMHs at the ****southernmost tip ****of Iberia was essentially ***synchronous*** with that recorded in other regions of Europe, and significantly increases the areal expansion reached by early AMHs at that time. In agreement with human dispersal scenarios on other continents, such rapid expansion points to coastal corridors as favoured routes for early AMH. The new radiocarbon dates align Iberian chronologies with AMH dispersal patterns in Eurasia.
And they ignore this....lol!
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
They are starting to sound like a broken record. Lol! Refusing to accept the obvious. Make up any story you want but ignore the obvious. SMH.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: why Should we care about mtDNA H entering Morocco in the Holocene? ala Achilli et al
My question is there political significance if Africans went into Iberia in prehistoric times. See if you can answer that first instead of asking another question
Posts: 42920 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
No, only to you as the issue is accurate human history that is being distorted by the Euros and cronies.
Posts: 1123 | From: New York | Registered: Feb 2016
| IP: Logged |
posted
Are you asking this for the newbies but I know you can be obtuse sometimes? Of course there is political significance.
Listen to this rant...." Mr Finlayson said the research provided “flimsy evidence” which suggests modern humans arrived in Eurasia before Neanderthals were extinct.
“There is no evidence that the modern humans crossed the Strait of Gibraltar to arrive in Eurasia,” he said.'
.....but Africans crossed into Yemen 60,000years ago. Now I would have said "swam" into Yemen but we know Africans can't swim....Ho! Ho! Ho!. Africans needed to wait on Eurasians to back-migrate into Africa before anything could take place. Nothing could take place without Eurasians. SMH. The VMAT1 delusional gene kicking in.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: why Should we care about mtDNA H entering Morocco in the Holocene? ala Achilli et al
My question is there political significance if Africans went into Iberia in prehistoric times. See if you can answer that first instead of asking another question
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Are you asking this for the newbies but I know you can be obtuse sometimes? Of course there is political significance.
Listen to this rant...." Mr Finlayson said the research provided “flimsy evidence” which suggests modern humans arrived in Eurasia before Neanderthals were extinct.
“There is no evidence that the modern humans crossed the Strait of Gibraltar to arrive in Eurasia,” he said.'.....but African crossed into Yemen 60000years ago. Now I would have said "swam" into Yemen but we know Africans can't swim....Ho! Ho! Ho!. Africans needed to waiting on Eurasian to back-migrate into Africa before any could take place. Nothing could take place without Eurasians. SMH. The VMAT1 delusional gene kicking in.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: why Should we care about mtDNA H entering Morocco in the Holocene? ala Achilli et al
My question is there political significance if Africans went into Iberia in prehistoric times. See if you can answer that first instead of asking another question
You are obtuse all the time. I'm and being crystal clear. As I suspected you can't answer the question. Instead you are saying in effect "here look at this stupid stuff somebody wrote in response to the article". You try to expose stuff for the sole sake of trying to expose something instead of dealing with the issue that the topic article supports the idea of a prehistoric movement of African into Iberia via Gibraltar. Instead of being able to state clearly why you think that is politically significant you point to a dissenting comment about it because all you want is drama for its own sake to make yourself feel righteous
Posts: 42920 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
No. I wish Europeans would stop their lies and deception. Especially when the facts are obvious.
quote: "all you want is drama for its own sake to make yourself feel righteous"
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Are you asking this for the newbies but I know you can be obtuse sometimes? Of course there is political significance.
Listen to this rant...." Mr Finlayson said the research provided “flimsy evidence” which suggests modern humans arrived in Eurasia before Neanderthals were extinct.
“There is no evidence that the modern humans crossed the Strait of Gibraltar to arrive in Eurasia,” he said.'.....but African crossed into Yemen 60000years ago. Now I would have said "swam" into Yemen but we know Africans can't swim....Ho! Ho! Ho!. Africans needed to waiting on Eurasian to back-migrate into Africa before any could take place. Nothing could take place without Eurasians. SMH. The VMAT1 delusional gene kicking in.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: why Should we care about mtDNA H entering Morocco in the Holocene? ala Achilli et al
My question is there political significance if Africans went into Iberia in prehistoric times. See if you can answer that first instead of asking another question
You are obtuse all the time. I'm and being crystal clear. As I suspected you can't answer the question. Instead you are saying in effect "here look at this stupid stuff somebody wrote in response to the article". You try to expose stuff for the sole sake of trying to expose something instead of dealing with the issue that the topic article supports the idea of a prehistoric movement of African into Iberia via Gibraltar. Instead of being able to state clearly why you think that is politically significant you point to a dissenting comment about it because all you want is drama for its own sake to make yourself feel righteous
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Still in denial or you just don't get it?! Europeans are a subset of Africans. Always had been and always will. Do not matter how many lies or ludicrous stories are made up. Geography don't lie.....fortunately.
They are trying their hardest NOT to admit that FACT. They will make all outlandish tales about leap froging and farmers on boats sailing 2000miles in open Oceans to plant crops. Which makes absolutely no sense. When Africa and Gibraltar is only 7 miles apart and both sides had AMH as much as 40,000years ago. And to add fuel to the flame both lands are "line-of-sight."
One stupid fantastic fairy tale after another. Look at the the Refugia Theory. What nonsense. Humans Retreated south but stopped in Iberia!!!? Really? When Africa is only 7 miles away?
Man. Only delusional VMAT1 Europeans.
You try to expose stuff for the sole sake of trying to expose something instead of dealing with the issue that the topic article supports the idea of a prehistoric movement of African into Iberia via Gibraltar.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
What is wrong with the topic article supports migration across the Strait of Gibraltar but you are acting like it said the opposite. Do you do everything backwards?
Posts: 42920 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
See Lioness. Not all white people are racist and carry the VMAT1 gene. Some proudly accept the fact that they are a subset of Africans.
------------------------ A western route of prehistoric human migration from Africa into the Iberian Peninsula G. Gonza´lez-Fortes1 , A. Salas9 G. Barbujani1
The 4W's. Who?
To those who don't know. Barbujani advocates like me the Europeans are a subset of Africans. He coined the phrase..."we are all Africans".
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
So Lioness. No ! I am not a racist. I can't be. Two researchers that opened my eyes are white Europeans. Coincidentally both are Italians. Guido who pointed out there was NEVER Neanderthal and AMH cross-breeding. It is impossible. And my man Sergi - Modern Europeans are essentially Africans from the Great Lakes who morphed into what they are today. This was confirmed by Lazaridis 2014 and DNATribes and others.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic