posted
I wanna start off by introducing myself, My name is King Trotter, I’m 16, and I’ve been studying Egyptology for about a year now but I’m new to EgyptSearch so please excuse me if I revive an old topic, I’ll try my best not to but I feel like this hasn’t been discussed yet because and if it has please let me know.
At the moment I’ve been studying the Rameses era and my buddies came to the conclusion that Rameses ii was somewhat of a mullato foreigner because of his actions during his reign. They claim he favors his asiatic side because he let so many Asiatics become prominent political figures in Kemet and they also claim that he chose the Sherden (sea people) to be his personal bodyguards instead of native Egyptians. I’ve been able to debunk/refute all of their other claims but these two seem interesting to me aswell.
Nothing leads me to believe Rameses ii was non-African or Treasonous. Based on my research there’s only minor differences from him and other mummies and when reading the 400 stele it looks as if his Grand Father was great of the Medjay and his Father (Set I) was a beloved Omobite. (-Thank you Doug :^)-)
Another one of their arguments is that Rameses ii usurped statues of Ay and Tutankhamen trying to make the argument that he was a traitor or something.
But if anyone has any information or a better understanding of the Rameseside period could you please fill me in.
posted
Thank you lioness but this didn’t really answer my question, based on my research I know that he’s not non African, my question is was he treasonous and did he favor the asiatics by letting them get into prominent positions in Kemet and usurping Tutankhamun and Ays statues.
Posts: 6 | From: Seattle | Registered: Jun 2021
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posted
I think a better question to start is where is your evidence of Ramses II favoring Asiatics? What evidence or sources have you found supporting this claim? As you said the Medjay were the main police force and often soldiers in Kemet and there are multiple lines of evidence for this. So what have you found to show otherwise?
Posts: 8895 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Doug M: I think a better question to start is where is your evidence of Ramses II favoring Asiatics? What evidence or sources have you found supporting this claim? As you said the Medjay were the main police force and often soldiers in Kemet and there are multiple lines of evidence for this. So what have you found to show otherwise?
Of course, here's the evidence my buddy uses to support his claims.
"Avaris was populated by the Minoans from Crete then the Hyksos. Kamose went to war with them and Amose I destroyed Avaris and abandoned it. Ramses I was from Avaris and was not from a royal egyptian family. he became King by default, which only lasted 2 years. Pi-Ramesses (Pi, meaning "House of Ramesses, Great in Victory")was the new capital built by the Nineteenth Dynasty of Egypt Pharaoh Ramesses II at Qantir, near the old site of Avaris. The city had previously served as a summer palace under Seti I (c. 1290–1279 BC), and may have been originally founded by Ramesses I (c. 1292–1290 BC) while he served under Horemheb. was Ramses I, Seti I, Ramses II and the entire 19th dynasty descendants of the hyksos? Horemheb was not of royal blood and a usurper of the throne and the political father of the 19th dynasty, therefore the entire 19th dynasty was illegitimate and ethnicity Semetic/Asiatic but Egyptian by nationality....Seti I was named after set/seth who was a god of foreigners in egypt and he is also portrayed as the usurper who killed and mutilated his brother osiris. Ramses II moved his capital to Pi Ramesses close to Canaan and Syria... The Hyksos King Apophis is recorded as worshiping Set in a monolatric way: He chose for his Lord the god Seth. He did not worship any other deity in the whole land except Seth. Papyrus Sallier 1 (Apophis and Sekenenre) Jan Assmann argues that because the Ancient Egyptians could never conceive of a "lonely" god lacking personality, Seth the desert god, who was worshiped exclusively, represented a manifestation of evil. When Ahmose I overthrew the Hyksos and expelled them from Egypt (c. 1522 BC), Egyptian attitudes towards Asiatic foreigners became xenophobic, and royal propaganda discredited the period of Hyksos rule. Nonetheless, the Set cult at Avaris flourished, and the Egyptian garrison of Ahmose stationed there became part of the priesthood of Set. The founder of the Nineteenth Dynasty,"
by -Kemetology2020
"came from a military family in Avaris with strong ties to the priesthood of Set. Several of the Ramesside kings were named for Set, most notably Seti I (literally, "man of Set") and Setnakht (literally, "Set is strong"). In addition, one of the garrisons of Ramesses II held Set as its patron deity, and Ramesses II erected the so-called Four Hundred Years' Stele at Pi-Ramesses, commemorating the 400 year anniversary of the Set cult in the Delta."
by - Kemetology2020
"SEVERED HAND FROM THE TIME OF HYKSOS severed right hands discovered in front of a Hyksos palace at Avaris (modern-day Tell el-Daba). They would have been chopped off and presented to the king (or a subordinate) in exchange for gold. This discovery is the first archaeological evidence of the practice. At the time they were buried, about 3,600 ( 1600BC)years ago, the palace was being used by King Khayan. The Hyksos were a conglomeration of people believed to be from northern Canaan, they controlled part of Egypt and made their capital at Avaris on the Nile Delta..... The other pictures are from the temple at medinet habu (Ramesside period 19th-20th dynasties) Why would the Ramesside period adopt this Hyksos practice...I believe it’s because it’s the practice of their ancestors."
By -Kemetology2020
"Ramses II was a clown 🤡 who usurped other peoples shit and he move his capital to the deltas where his foreign friends and families could protect him"
By -Kemetology2020
"Sherden/foreigner/sea people the Personal Bodyguards of Ramses II. These foreign bodyguards came from somewhere in the eastern Mediterranean...I guess he did not trust the natives ( Egyptian )to guard him...I wonder why? The entire 19th dynasty is suspect to me, if they were really as powerful as historians claim why so many foreigners in high positions etc. are you not able to put your foot down and keep them under control? If Ramesses II was so great why did he need peace treaty with the Hittites. The “Nubians”, “Libyans” and Hittites was on his ass. How is it that the 25th dynasty was able to control All of Egypt without a peace treaty or foreign bodyguards?"
By -Kemetology2020
"Picture is from T. Wilkinson's book, The Rise and Fall of Ancient Egypt. It shows a part of General and official Urhiya stele. the general is followed by his wife, Tuy, who carries a sistrum. The two characters are surrendering to a god or goddess who does not appear in the stele.
General Urhiya is of Palestine/Syrian origin, his name mean "faithful". He was general under Pharaoh Seti I (19th Dynasty) Interesting that he did not change his name to an Egyptian one, which could mean he was first generation foreigner.
he served thirty years in the Egypt army then he was promoted to the rank of royal butler / royal steward, he responsible for the administration of the estates and all the wealth that the pharaoh possessed. Then he was promoted again to administrator of the Ramasseum. (a place of worship dedicated to Ramesses where his memory would have been kept alive after his death) his wife, Tey was a singer of Ammon and a singer of Hathor, his brother was a priest and one of his sons by the name of Yupa reach the ranks of "general", "troop commander" and "standard bearer"."
By -Kemetology2020
He messaged me these long ass paragraphs, whats your thoughts?
Posts: 6 | From: Seattle | Registered: Jun 2021
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Nehesy Asiatic Libyan Rameses II __________________________________________________
Rameses II Military Campaigns
Some of his early military campaigns as pharaoh were against the Nehesy and the Hittites. Similar to his father Seti I, Ramesses I set out to reclaim lost Egyptian territories in those regions.
His fourth year on the throne saw him wage war against Canaan in Syria. The stelae at Nahr el-Kalb (near Beirut) commemorates this campaign of his. Ramesses even took one of the Canaanite princes prisoner. The king then proceeded to loot the riches of the Asiatics. He also demanded tributes from a number of tribes in the region.
About two years into his reign, the young pharaoh did not hessistate when he crushed Sherden sea pirates in the Mediterranean coast. Those pirates had for quite some time caused immense havoc to Egypt’s trading routes. Many historians reason that the pirates’ base was likely around the coast of Ionia in southwest Anatolia. Some of them also came from Sardinia and surrounding areas. The pharaoh laid a trap for the pirates at sea; once the pirates fell for it, he unleashed his forces on them.
Ramesses II’s most famous military campaign has got to be the stalemate at the Battle of Kadesh in Syria. Weary about the Hittites (led by Muwatallis) growing influence, Ramesses faced off against them. His goal was to banish them out of the region and establish Egypt’s influence.
His city Pi-Ramesses proved very useful in providing supplies for the troops during the battle. Weapons, chariots and shields were manufactured in the region.
Ambushed and outnumbered by the Hittites at Kadesh, Ramesses returned to Egypt, hoping to fight another day. The Hittite Empire took large parts of Syria, and soon the Canaanites started revolting and moving into alliances with the Hittites.
In year eight of his reign, he rampaged through Amurru, Tunip and Dapur. At the later city, he built a statute of himself. This victory of his was particularly significant. The last pharaoh to claim those lands was Thutmose III; and it was over 160 years prior to Ramesses.
Posts: 42929 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Nehesy Asiatic Libyan Rameses II __________________________________________________
Rameses II Military Campaigns
Some of his early military campaigns as pharaoh were against the Nehesy and the Hittites. Similar to his father Seti I, Ramesses I set out to reclaim lost Egyptian territories in those regions.
His fourth year on the throne saw him wage war against Canaan in Syria. The stelae at Nahr el-Kalb (near Beirut) commemorates this campaign of his. Ramesses even took one of the Canaanite princes prisoner. The king then proceeded to loot the riches of the Asiatics. He also demanded tributes from a number of tribes in the region.
About two years into his reign, the young pharaoh did not hessistate when he crushed Sherden sea pirates in the Mediterranean coast. Those pirates had for quite some time caused immense havoc to Egypt’s trading routes. Many historians reason that the pirates’ base was likely around the coast of Ionia in southwest Anatolia. Some of them also came from Sardinia and surrounding areas. The pharaoh laid a trap for the pirates at sea; once the pirates fell for it, he unleashed his forces on them.
Ramesses II’s most famous military campaign has got to be the stalemate at the Battle of Kadesh in Syria. Weary about the Hittites (led by Muwatallis) growing influence, Ramesses faced off against them. His goal was to banish them out of the region and establish Egypt’s influence.
His city Pi-Ramesses proved very useful in providing supplies for the troops during the battle. Weapons, chariots and shields were manufactured in the region.
Ambushed and outnumbered by the Hittites at Kadesh, Ramesses returned to Egypt, hoping to fight another day. The Hittite Empire took large parts of Syria, and soon the Canaanites started revolting and moving into alliances with the Hittites.
In year eight of his reign, he rampaged through Amurru, Tunip and Dapur. At the later city, he built a statute of himself. This victory of his was particularly significant. The last pharaoh to claim those lands was Thutmose III; and it was over 160 years prior to Ramesses.
Thank you lioness, I didn't know he had a battle with the sherden. Now that that's known, i wonder why he mixed seth with levantine god baal.
quote:Originally posted by Kemetic_Kollection: I wanna start off by introducing myself, My name is King Trotter, I’m 16, and I’ve been studying Egyptology for about a year now but I’m new to EgyptSearch so please excuse me if I revive an old topic, I’ll try my best not to but I feel like this hasn’t been discussed yet because and if it has please let me know.
At the moment I’ve been studying the Rameses era and my buddies came to the conclusion that Rameses ii was somewhat of a mullato foreigner because of his actions during his reign. They claim he favors his asiatic side because he let so many Asiatics become prominent political figures in Kemet and they also claim that he chose the Sherden (sea people) to be his personal bodyguards instead of native Egyptians. I’ve been able to debunk/refute all of their other claims but these two seem interesting to me aswell.
Nothing leads me to believe Rameses ii was non-African or Treasonous. Based on my research there’s only minor differences from him and other mummies and when reading the 400 stele it looks as if his Grand Father was great of the Medjay and his Father (Set I) was a beloved Omobite. (-Thank you Doug :^)-)
Another one of their arguments is that Rameses ii usurped statues of Ay and Tutankhamen trying to make the argument that he was a traitor or something.
But if anyone has any information or a better understanding of the Rameseside period could you please fill me in.
Thank you.
Hi King. All of what you bring up was addressed years ago here.
-------------------- Mahirap gisingin ang nagtutulog-tulugan. Posts: 26252 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Just to point out. It's actually not uncommon for a monarch to appoint foreigners as his royal guard as part of a diplomatic gesture of trust to those foreign nations and perhaps depending on the political situation because the monarch didn't trust natives of his court.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: why have you posted a picture of Gaston Maspero?
So you can know what he look like. Why would you ask a weird question like that?
why would somebody reading this thread about did Rameses ii have foreign bodyguards want to know what Gaston Maspero looked like?
Posts: 42929 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the questioner: Why are you so confused about Gaston Maspero's image? He is the man who unwrapped the Mummy you presented.
I'm not confused. What does the man who unwrapped the Mummy have to do with the topic? stop playin, what's your point or is that just a fun fact of yours?
Posts: 42929 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the questioner: Why are you so confused about Gaston Maspero's image? He is the man who unwrapped the Mummy you presented.
I'm not confused. What does the man who unwrapped the Mummy have to do with the topic? stop playin, what's your point or is that just a fun fact of yours?
Fun Fact of mine Egyptologist play a big part in how we interpret Ancient Egypt. Its important to give credit where it is due.
posted
Here is another fun fact about Gaston Maspero. He did not believe Ancient Egypt was a black African civilization
"On examining innumerable reproductions of statues and bas-reliefs, we recognized at once that the people represented on the monuments instead of presenting peculiarities and the general appearance of the negro, really resembled the fine white race of Europe and Western Asia" -Gaston Maspero
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