quote:A team of archaeologists, geophysicists, geologists, and paleontologists affiliated with multiple institutions in Indonesia has found evidence showing that Gunung Padang is the oldest known pyramid in the world. In their paper published in the journal Archaeological Prospection, the group describes their multi-year study of the cultural heritage site.
Gunung Padang has for many years been considered a megalithic structure—it sits on top of an extinct volcano in West Java, Indonesia, and is considered by locals to be a sacred site. In 1998, it was declared to be a cultural heritage site. For many years there has been disagreement regarding the nature of the hill. Some have suggested it was made naturally with humans adding some adornments on top, while others have argued that evidence has suggested the hill was all or mostly man-made.
For this new study, the research team conducted a long-term, scientific study of the structure. Over the years 2011 to 2015, they studied the structure using seismic tomography, electrical resistivity tomography and ground-penetrating radar. They also drilled down into the hill and collected core samples that allowed them to use radiocarbon dating techniques to learn the ages of the layers that make up the hill.
In studying all their data, the research team found what they describe as clear evidence showing that the Gunung Padang was made mostly by human hands. The also found evidence showing that the structure was built in stages, thousands of years apart. And, they found that the older parts of the structure were made sometime between 25,000 and 14,000 years ago, making it the oldest known pyramid in the world today.
More specifically, the researchers found evidence of several efforts that together over time, added up to a completed structure. The first consisted of sculpted lava—where builders had carved shapes onto the top of a small, dead volcano. Then, several thousand years later, sometime between 7900 to 6100 BCE, another group added a layer of bricks and rock columns. Some unknown time later, another group added a dirt layer to part of the hill, covering some of the earlier work. Then sometime between 2000 and 1100 BCE yet another group added more top soil, stone terracing, and other elements.
The research team has also found some evidence suggesting there might be some hollow parts inside the structure, suggesting possible hidden chambers. They plan to drill down to them and then lower a camera to see what might be in these areas.
I wonder what kind of people would have erected this monument? 25-14 kya is long before the arrival of Austronesian peoples like the Javanese into Indonesia, so is it possible they were more closely related to the Papuans of New Guinea?
Geo-archaeological prospecting of Gunung Padang buried prehistoric pyramid in West Java, Indonesia Danny Hilman Natawidjaja, Andang Bachtiar, Bagus Endar B. Nurhandoko, Ali Akbar, Pon Purajatnika, Mudrik R. Daryono, Dadan D. Wardhana, Andri S. Subandriyo, Andi Krisyunianto … See all authors First published: 20 October 2023
4 CONCLUSION 4.1 Gunung Padang is a multi-layered prehistoric pyramid This study strongly suggests that Gunung Padang is not a natural hill but a pyramid-like construction. The pyramid's core consists of meticulously sculpted massive andesite lava (Unit 4), enveloped by layers of rock constructions (Unit 3, Unit 2 and Unit 1). The carbon dating analysis further supports the multi-layer construction's long history, spanning successive periods.
The oldest construction, Unit 4, likely originated as a natural lava hill before being sculpted and then architecturally enveloped during the last glacial period between 25 000 and 14 000 BCE. (Figure 14). Afterward, Gunung Padang was abandoned by the first builders for thousands of years, leading to significant weathering. Around 7900–6100 BCE, Unit 3 was deliberately buried with substantial soil fills. Approximately a millennium later, between 6000 and 5500 BCE, a subsequent builder arrived at Gunung Padang
quote: The results of the 3D survey provided successful visualization of the suspected large cavities in three dimensions, as depicted in Figure 10. Similar to the 2D imaging, these large cavities or chambers were distinguished by the EHRA but in 3D (Figure 11a–c). The presence of EHRA, accompanied by surrounding layers of low resistivity, clearly outlined the chambers. The main chamber beneath the ramp between T1 and T2 was estimated to have dimensions of approximately 10 × 10 × 15 m (width × height × length). Moreover, EHRA was also observed beneath T1 and T5, further supporting the presence of additional chambers (Figure 11c–f).
To further advance our knowledge of Gunung Padang, it is essential for future research to undertake comprehensive and systematic excavations that delve into the characteristics of Unit 2, Unit 3 and Unit 4, as well as their cultural significance. Employing advanced geophysical imaging techniques and directional drilling can prove instrumental in exploring underground structures, including potential chambers. In the event of encountering a chamber during drilling operations, the use of downhole cameras can provide valuable visual documentation. Furthermore, conducting more extensive radiometric dating studies will contribute to obtaining precise age estimates for the constructions, enhancing our understanding of their historical timelines.
posted
I'm not at all surprised. There are megalithic monuments all over the Malay Archipelago and really territory that once made up Sundaland. All over Southeast Asia there are legends of ancient civilizations leaving behinds monuments.
As Dashu wrote as one of her counterpoints against Eurocentric bias back in 2000. A small-statured Black people built the oldest civilization in southeast Asia, leaving megalithic temples and statuary in south India, Cambodia, Sumatra and other Indonesian islands.
Although I agree with Lioness, is the structure really pyramid shaped?
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posted
Would be nice to dig up skeletal remains associated with these monuments. My guess is that dark-skinned aboriginal peoples were responsible for the earlier constructions (e.g. reshaping the lava hill between 25-14 kya), but later-arriving Austronesians contributed to the later additions.
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^ If the dating range of the structure is accurate then it would put it squarely during the time of the Sunda Subcontinent.
And it obviously adds a lot of fuel to Dr. Oppenheimer's Eastern Eden theory.
For those who may not remember Dr. Oppenheimer is the geneticist who wrote the book The Real Eve which Discovery Channel made into a documentary. His Eastern Eden theory is that there was a substantial Bottleneck of human population in Sundaland which produced advanced civilizations.
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posted
A video from 2018 about the site which reports a certain skepticism. The site seems to have been debated for quite a while.
quote:Earlier this month, scientists presented evidence at the annual meeting of the American Geophysical Union for an enormous pyramid-like structure in Indonesia, hidden for thousands of years.
It is located atop Gunung Padang or Mount Padang in West Java where there is an ancient archaeological site with rows of stone pillars. But this isn’t the enigma, some scientists claim that the sloping hill underneath isn’t a natural, rocky landscape but is actually a man-made pyramidal structure.
99% of archaeologists and geologists in Indonesia disagree with the new claims and say it is a political hoax. Watch the video to find out more on this famous site.
posted
Its interesting to see that megalithic structures exist all over the Pacific, in Melanesia, Micronesia and Polynesia. In Melanesia some of these traditions still live on, as for example on Malekula in Vanuatu:
quote:Today there are only a few places left on earth where we can study a surviving megalithic tradition. Most of the known more significant megalithic traditions outside of Europe are concentrated in Southeast Asia and the Pacific region, but the majority of these were destroyed by contact with Europeans already at the beginning of the 19th century, not least by the care of missionaries. On the island of Malekula in the small island nation of Vanuatu, which Captain James Cook once named the New Hebrides, we meet one of the most alive.
Three main areas The island of Malekula can be, simplified, divided into three main cultural areas. The men of these peoples are traditionally wearing a coiled penis sheath, namba, which gave the people its name. The notorious and feared warrior tribes in the interior of northern Malekula, the Big Nambas, are today almost completely disbanded, and most of the survivors have moved out towards the coasts. It is different in the inaccessible mountain areas in the interior, southern part of the island. There still live, almost completely unaffected, some of the earth's most original, surviving "Stone Age" people, the Small Nambas, who still have little, if any, contact with the outside world.
However, neither the Big Nambas nor the Small Nambas ever developed any proper megalithic tradition. The construction of stone chamber tombs is instead linked to the third large cultural group on Malekula, the peoples along the island's coastal areas, and then above all to a string of small islands on the coral reef outside the main island's north-eastern tip.
Although the megalithic tradition on Malekula occurs in most coastal areas, the strongest and most complex tradition is found on these coral atolls, on islands such as Vao, Atchin, Uripiv and others. All the villages on these islands display magnificent ceremonial dance-grounds, on which giant hollowed-out tribal drums are set up, decorated with carved and painted anthropomorphic faces. When the drums sound, the voices of the ancestors speak. Beneath giant banyan trees, the stone chamber tombs line up along one long side.
The use of these megalithic cult sites for burials and other rituals is strongly associated with ancestor worship and the sacrifice of pigs.
(Translated from Swedish) Göran Burenhult is an ethnoarchaeologist who among other things studied Megaliths in Europe, North Africa, Indonesia and Oceania. He has travelled extensively in Indonesia, Melanesia, Micronesia and Polynesia. His book The Stone Men about Megaliths all over the world is quite interesting.
Megalithic tombs, dolmens, at Pete-hul dancing ground, Islet of Vao, Malekula Island 1985
Range of stone features found in nasara: (a) tubular standing stones, Vao mainland, north Malakula; (b) stone platforms and standing stones, Tenmiel, north-west Malakula; (c) standing flat slab of beach rock with cupules, Lamap, south-east Malakula; (d) carved tubular standing stone, South-West Bay, Malakula. Source: Stuart Bedford.
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posted
^ Melanesia, specifically New-Guinea was part of the Sahul continent.
Interestingly the megaliths of the Sundaland region (don't know about Melanesia), predate those of other islands from at least the Neolithic if not older.
The only megalithic structures in the Philippines I know of are the ijang or forts made of limestone and wood that are found mostly in Luzon and date from 2,000-800 BC. The other megaliths in Micronesia and Polynesia date to after the 1st Millennium CE.
posted
Interesting is also different remote sensing techniques, especially LIDAR which one can use to find structures that often can be hard to discern from the ground. Here is an article from the same page as the one you posted above.
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^ I know. Lidar helped uncover the Casarabe Culture in the Amazon jungle of Bolivia.
If there is a civilization that dates back to Sundaland, they're also going to have to look under the sea since 60% of Sunda is submerged. It would be a much more extensive endeavor than the excavation of the lost city of Dvārakā in India.
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posted
As much as I don't care for guys like Graham Hancock, the Atlantean/Lemurian hypotheses, or many other proponents of Pleistocene civilizations, I do think it likely that Pleistocene humans had developed a variety of much more complex cultures than popular depictions of nomadic hunter-gatherers suggest. There are already anthropological and historical accounts of complex sedentary societies without agriculture developing in the Holocene (a famous example being Native Americans of the Pacific Northwest), so it seems reasonable to suppose such societies existed in the Pleistocene as well. And some of them must have constructed what we would consider monumental structures.
In addition to these Southeast Asian pyramids, Gobekli Tepe is an even better known example of hunter-gatherers erecting monumental architecture. There might be even more examples that we haven't discovered yet, either because the ravages of millennia have toppled the monuments or because their builders used more perishable materials than stone.
BTW, given how much the anthro fandom talks about this or that population having Natufian ancestry, I want to remind everyone that the Natufians are another example of a sedentary hunter-gatherer society known from the archaeological record. In fact, it's my personal hypothesis that it was such societies that invented agriculture to begin with. One benefit of agriculture is that it can supply a population with a regular and conveniently located source of food, and a population that had already settled down in a circumscribed area would appreciate that more than one accustomed to wandering around to find food.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ I know. Lidar helped uncover the Casarabe Culture in the Amazon jungle of Bolivia.
If there is a civilization that dates back to Sundaland, they're also going to have to look under the sea since 60% of Sunda is submerged. It would be a much more extensive endeavor than the excavation of the lost city of Dvārakā in India.
It is an interesting subject the different landmasses that became submerged after the ice age. In Northern Europe we have a famous example in Doggerland where much of what is today the North Sea was once land where humans, plants and animals thrived. There are interesting research projects aimed at mapping the submerged land in more detail and get information about the life there.
Also parts of what is now the Persian Gulf seem to have been land, and also home for fauna, flora and humans. It seems that it at times has been an environment reminding of the Garden of Eden.
We have of course Sundaland and Sahul which already have been mentioned.
And we have Beringia which is quite famous.
Interesting is also the theories about the flooding of the Black Sea caused by inflowing water from the Mediterranean, which got highlighted in the book Noah´s Flood by William Ryan and Walter Pitman in the 1990s.
quote:A headline-grabbing paper claiming that a structure in Indonesia is the oldest pyramid in the world has raised the eyebrows of some archaeologists — and has now prompted an investigation by the journal that published it, Nature has learnt.
The paper, published in the journal Archaeological Prospection on 20 October, garnered headlines around the world. Its central claim is that a pyramid lying beneath the prehistoric site of Gunung Padang in West Java, Indonesia, might have been constructed as far back as 27,000 years ago.
That would make it much older than first colossal Egyptian pyramid, the 4,600-year-old Pyramid of Djoser. It would also mean it pre-dates the oldest known megalithic site, Göbekli Tepe in Turkey, which was built by stone-masons around 11,000 years ago. And it would completely rewrite what is known about human civilization in the area. “The pyramid has become a symbol of advanced civilization,” says paper co-author Danny Hilman Natawidjaja, a geologist at the National Research and Innovation Agency (BRIN) in Bandung, Indonesia. “It's not easy to build pyramids. You need high masonry skills,” he says.
It’s exactly such claims that have left many fellow researchers cold. Lutfi Yondri, an archaeologist at BRIN in Bandung, Indonesia, says his work has shown that people in the region inhabited caves between 12,000 and 6,000 years ago, long after the pyramid was supposedly built, and no excavations from this period have revealed evidence of sophisticated stonemasonry.
“I'm surprised [the paper] was published as is,” says Flint Dibble, an archaeologist at Cardiff University, UK. He says that although the paper presents “legitimate data”, its conclusions about the site and its age are not justified.
posted
^ Which is exactly why I won't hold my breath. I know it's not as common as many think but there are times when archaeologists jump the gun so to speak.
quote:Originally posted by BrandonP: As much as I don't care for guys like Graham Hancock, the Atlantean/Lemurian hypotheses, or many other proponents of Pleistocene civilizations, I do think it likely that Pleistocene humans had developed a variety of much more complex cultures than popular depictions of nomadic hunter-gatherers suggest. There are already anthropological and historical accounts of complex sedentary societies without agriculture developing in the Holocene (a famous example being Native Americans of the Pacific Northwest), so it seems reasonable to suppose such societies existed in the Pleistocene as well. And some of them must have constructed what we would consider monumental structures.
In addition to these Southeast Asian pyramids, Gobekli Tepe is an even better known example of hunter-gatherers erecting monumental architecture. There might be even more examples that we haven't discovered yet, either because the ravages of millennia have toppled the monuments or because their builders used more perishable materials than stone.
BTW, given how much the anthro fandom talks about this or that population having Natufian ancestry, I want to remind everyone that the Natufians are another example of a sedentary hunter-gatherer society known from the archaeological record. In fact, it's my personal hypothesis that it was such societies that invented agriculture to begin with. One benefit of agriculture is that it can supply a population with a regular and conveniently located source of food, and a population that had already settled down in a circumscribed area would appreciate that more than one accustomed to wandering around to find food.
I whole-heartedly agree. Though I do appreciate Hancock's perspective that civilizations in the world are much older than we realize, I think tends to exaggerate. I think it goes to the 'Antediluvian Civilization' hypothesis that originally stemmed from the Bible. Again, there may be some truth to it but I seriously doubt ancient peoples that far back had some sort of industrial technology let alone space age technology from aliens.
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