By Sheikh Muhammad Saleh Al-Munajjid ( A Saudi Islamic lecturer and author)
Rape is an abhorrent crime and an abominable sin. This heinous crime is forbidden not only in Islam but in all religions, and all people of sound thinking and pure human nature reject it.
The Arabic word ightisab (rape) refers to taking something wrongfully by force. It is now used exclusively to refer to transgression against the honor of women by force.
This is an abhorrent crime that is forbidden in all religions and in the minds of all wise people and those who possess sound human nature. All earthly systems and laws regard this action as abhorrent and impose the strictest penalties on it.
Islam has a clear stance which states that this repugnant action is haram (forbidden) and imposes a deterrent punishment on the one who commits it.
Islam closes the door to the criminal who wants to commit this crime. Western studies have shown that most rapists are already criminals who commit their crimes under the influence of alcohol and drugs, and they take advantage of the fact that their victims are walking alone in isolated places or staying in the house alone. These studies also show that what the criminals watch on the media and the semi-naked styles of dress in which women go out also lead to the commission of this reprehensible crime.
The laws of Islam came to protect women’s honor and modesty. Islam forbids women to wear clothes that are not modest. In addition, Islam encourages young men and women to marry early, and many other rulings that close the door before rape and other crimes. Hence it comes as no surprise when we hear or read that most of these crimes occur in permissive societies, which are looked up to by some Muslims as examples of civilization and refinement! It is worth mentioning here that in America , for example, Amnesty International stated in a 2004 report entitled “Stop Violence Against Women” that every 90 seconds a woman was raped during that year.
The punishment for rape in Islam is the same as the punishment for zina (adultery or fornication), which is stoning if the perpetrator is married, and one hundred lashes and banishment for one year if he is not married.
Moreover, Ibn `Abdul-Barr (may Allah bless his soul) said
The scholars are unanimously agreed that the rapist is to be subjected to the hadd punishment if there is clear evidence against him that he deserves the hadd punishment, or if he admits to that. Otherwise, he is to be punished (that is, if there is no proof that the hadd punishment for zina may be carried out against him because he does not confess and there are not four witnesses, then the judge may punish him and stipulate a punishment that will deter him and others like him). There is no punishment for the woman if it is true that he forced her and overpowered her. (Al-Istidhkaar, 7/146).
In addition, the rapist is subject to the hadd punishment for zina, even if the rape was not carried out at knifepoint or gunpoint. If the use of a weapon was threatened, then he is a muharib, and is to be subjected to the hadd punishment described in the verse in which Allah says (The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off from opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world, and a great torment is theirs in the Hereafter) (Al-Ma’idah 5:33).
So the judge has the choice of the four punishments mentioned in this verse and may choose whichever he thinks is most suitable to attain the objective, which is to spread peace and security in society, and ward off evildoers and aggressors.
By Sheikh Ahmad Kutty, a senior lecturer and Islamic scholar at the Islamic Institute of Toronto, Ontario, Canada, states:
In Islam, we are not allowed to tarnish the honor of anyone. One is required to produce four witnesses when making an allegation of adultery against another person; otherwise, one will be guilty of slandering.
A raped woman is a victim that must be treated with honor and kindness. She is not required to produce four witnesses to prove the crime done against her, nor is she punished for the crime done against her.
If a person makes an allegation of adultery against another person (male or female) he or she must produce four witnesses to support such an allegation; otherwise, he or she is guilty of slandering, which is a grave offense in Islam, for we are not to tarnish the honor of anyone.
A woman who has been raped cannot be asked to produce witnesses; her claim shall be accepted unless there are tangible grounds to prove otherwise. To insist that she provide witnesses is akin to inflicting further pain on her. If anyone refutes her claim of innocence, the onus is on him to provide evidence, and she may simply deny the claim by making a solemn oath, thus clearing herself in public. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said, “The onus to provide evidence falls on the one who makes a claim, and the one who denies (the same) can absolve himself or herself by making a solemn oath to the contrary.”
As for a spouse who witnesses his or her partner committing adultery and the other party denies it and they are unable to provide witnesses, they are, if they so desire, to part company by repudiating each other by engaging in what is known as a solemn oath and prayer of curse (li`an). It is described thus in the Qur’an: “And those who accuse their wives, and have no witnesses but themselves, then the testimony of each of them shall be a testimony sworn by God repeated four times, that he is indeed truthful. And the fifth (oath) is that God’s curse be upon him if he is lying. And it shall avert punishment from her that she testify a testimony repeated and sworn by God four times, that he is lying. And a fifth (oath) that the wrath of God be upon her, if he has spoken the truth” (An-Nur: 6-9).
Excerpted, with slight modifications, from: www.muslims.ca
Punishment for Rapists
By Dr. Ahmad Yusuf Sulaiman, professor of law and Islamic Shari`ah at Cairo University:
Islamically speaking, the raped woman is not guilty of any sin because she was forced to it beyond her control. Stressing this, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) is reported to have said, “Allah has forgiven my Ummah for their mistakes, what they forget and what they are forced to do.” Thus, the raped woman is a victim and all members of her community should deal with her with honor and kindness and should encourage her to obtain her rights through all possible means.
If a woman is raped, she should press charges against the one who raped her. If it is proved that she was raped, then the court must apply discretionary punishment or ta`zir on the rapist. Such discretionary punishment may reach the death penalty, according to some schools of thought. This is based wholly on the fact that the rape is confirmed through medical tests and court procedures, without the confession of the rapist himself.
In cases where the rapist confesses the crime, then the penalty for zina (illegitimate sexual intercourse) is to be applied to him. If he is not married, then he is to be whipped 100 lashes. If he is married, then he is to be stoned to death.
As for the rape victim, no punishment is to be inflicted on her. She is to be treated with dignity and honor, and all forms of help should be given to her to gain her rights.
Excerpted from :http://www.islamonline.net/ Fatwa
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EGYPT: TOUGHER LAWS NEEDED TO STOP VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN, ACTIVISTS SAY
July 13, 2005 (IRIN) - Several women's rights organisations have called upon Egyptian parliamentarians to amend existing laws and develop tougher legislation to stop violence against women.
A statement was made on Monday by the groups in reaction to a recent rape and murder case in which one of the accused was sentenced to only three years imprisonment in May.
The second accused was sentenced to two years and on appeal this sentence was reduced to two months imprisonment.
The Arab Women's Alliance (AWA), the New Women's Research Centre (NWRC), and the Egyptian Centre for Women's Legal Assistance (ECWLA), along with several other women's rights groups, demanded the implementation of fresh legislation concerning rape.
"The judge referred to article 17 of the penalties code which gives judges discretion in taking mercy in cases and reducing the degree of the crime," Hala Abdel-Kader of ECWLA said.
"Article 17 is an important clause in the Egyptian law because there are cases that deserve mercy due to the circumstances of the crime. However, we cannot find any justifications in this case for mercy," she added.
According to a statement issued by the women's rights organisations, the two accused men in the rape case confessed to their crime. The first accused had lured the 23 year-old girl to his flat where he raped and beat, resulting in her death.
According to Abdel-Kader, who is a lawyer, article 290 of the criminal code stipulates that a criminal accused of kidnapping and raping a woman should receive a capital punishment.
"The accused have confessed to their crime. In addition, the judge explained when passing the sentence that he strongly believes that the girl was kidnapped and raped. Still he referred to article 17 of the penalties code without giving any explanation to why," she said.
As an observer, Judge Ghareeb Ezzat told IRIN that article 17 was not a compulsory article that is used in all cases.
"Article 17 is only used in criminal cases and depending on the circumstances of the case itself," he said, adding that each crime has its own set of circumstances which need to be taken into consideration when sentencing.
The girl's brother submitted an appeal request to the prosecutor after the verdict was announced. When it was refused he wrote a petition to the general prosecutor and is waiting for a date to be set for an appeal.
"In criminal cases, the prosecutor is delegated to handle the case on behalf of the victim and in the name of the people," Administrative Prosecutor, Mustafa Abaza, said.
"The prosecutor only accepts appeal cases when it sees that the law has not been used correctly in a case," he explained, adding that in this case the judge's ruling was legitimate.
With regard to this regulation, women rights organisations are now demanding that the victim have the right of appeal against decisions in criminal cases, without having to go to the prosecutor.
According to Abdel-Kader, this case has highlighted loopholes in the Egyptian legislative system, especially with regard to crimes of violence against women.
"Such crimes should not be left unpunished and criminals should be sentenced to a punishment that fits the degree of their crime," she said.
Domestic Violence III.1 Woman Battering The dominance of men over women is accepted to varying degrees among Egyptians of both genders. For example, the 1995 Egyptian Demographic and Health Survey found that a significant number of women, especially among lower and middle income women and those residing in rural areas, believed that wife beating was justified under certain circumstances.20 Another study - carried out between January and March 1997 on a sample of 100 women aged between 14 and 65 years old (married or having been married) from Manshier Nasser, an informal settlement located ten minutes from the city of Cairo - reveals that 30% of the women questioned admitted to being subjected to domestic violence on a daily basis, 34% on a weekly basis, 15% on a monthly basis and 21% occasionally.21 For 75% of these women, the main reason for this domestic violence was found to be sexual. Women are beaten, raped or abused for having refused to have sex with their husbands. Other reasons cited were spending (65%), visiting (32%), housework (25%), religion (8%), jealousy (6%) and disobedience (5%).22 Sixteen percent of the women suffered injuries necessitating hospitalisation, such as broken arms, broken ribs, internal bleeding and wounds in the head or the arms requiring stitches, while 9% of them attempted to commit suicide.23 Following this violence, most of them (53%) suffered in silence; 13% went to the police, although all of them subsequently withdrew the charges, the objective being only “to teach the husband a lesson”, not really wanting to cause him any harm.24 Only 6% of these women demanded a divorce. Of the remainder, 26% called their neighbours; 25% tried to leave their homes at least once; 23% got help from family members (either their own or their spouse’s), while 15% responded to the violence. The fact that 87% of these women did not mention the violence to the police is due to embarrassment (65%), for the children’s sake (32%), fears for their husband (19%), fear of their husband 20 – F. El-Zanaty et.al, Egypt Demographic and Health Survey, 1996, p. 206, quoted in Nemat Guenena and Nadia Wassef, see note 6, p. 38. 21 – Marlyn Tadros, Rightless Women, Heartless Men. Egyptian Women and Domestic Violence, The Legal Research and Resource Center for Human Rights, Cairo, 1998, p. 46. 22 – Ibid., pp. 51-62. 23 – Ibid., pp. 62-71. 24 – Ibid. III (13%), and fear of their own families (7%).25 Four percent felt that it was a waste of time, while 11% cited other reasons. The researcher specified that although this study is not representative of Egyptian society as a whole, she feels that “the instances of violence even among different social classes within Egyptian society is widespread.”26 OMCT welcomes the promulgation of Law No. 6 of 1998, mentioned in the fifth and fourth government report on page 15, which criminalises the phenomenon of intimidation and the threat of the use of force or violence against a wife, offspring or parents. However, it believes that this measure does not provide women with sufficient protection from domestic violence as wife battering in Egypt is only dealt with as a crime if it exceeds the accepted limits of disciplining or if it results in certain injuries.27 Social and other interpretations of religious values reinforce the wife’s duty to obey and serve her husband, a role reinforced by the media. Moreover, the custom of a man paying a dowry for his future wife also perpetuates the idea that a wife is her husband’s property. Although OMCT welcomes the amended personal law which allows women the right to unilateral divorce, it is concerned that the rights granted to women by law are still too limited to enable them to leave their husbands. First of all, a woman can only get a divorce if she can afford to pay back her dowry. As women are still often economically dependent on their husbands, returning the dowry will in many cases be impossible. Neither does the new law improve the conditions of Egyptian Coptic women who must go through the complex procedure of applying for an annulment of a marriage from their church. Moreover, as mentioned above, the law still makes it illegal for any institution to separate a wife from her husband without his consent. Consequently, women cannot seek refuge in a shelter from a violent husband. According to information received, since the law has been implemented in February 2000, a few dozen cases have occurred. According to the newspapers, two or three divorces have been granted on these grounds. According to lawyers this has not yet been the case.
V i o l e n c e a g a i n s t W o m e n i n E g y p t 20 25 – Ibid. 26 – Ibid, p. 82. 27 – Information received from the Egyptian Organisation for Human Rights (EOHR), member of the OMCT SOS Torture network, in answer to an OMCT questionnaire on violence against women.
************************************************** 21 Domestic Violence III.2 Marital Rape In Egypt, a husband who forces his wife to have sexual intercourse is not considered by the law to have committed a criminal offence, “because the woman is legally obliged due to the marriage contract to obey her husband and to follow him to his bed each time he asks her, and she can only refuse for a legally valid reason.”28 A study conducted by the New Women Research Centre and El-Nadim Centre has found that 93% of the women in the sample considered intercourse under such conditions as rape. However, 46% of the men in the sample said that they were entitled to force their wives to have intercourse.29 III.3 Crimes against Women Committed in the Name of Honour As already discussed above, there is a notable difference in the penalty for the murder of one’s spouse upon discovery of adultery. Whereas men are given a light prison sentence of not more than three years for murdering an adulterous wife, women are often sentenced to hard labour for life for murdering an unfaithful husband. This difference is justified by the widespread attitude that a man’s honour is dependent upon his wife’s virtue. Consequently, his violent reaction to his wife’s adultery becomes excusable, especially if committed in the heat of the moment. Moreover, although under the penal code, only the husband is “afforded” a lesser sentence for “provocation”, the woman’s family is often given a provocation defence by lenient court officials.30 Judges allegedly impose light sentences in such cases as an appreciation of the family’s suffering.31
************************************************** Cases • Fathiyah was murdered by her brother, Khayri Muhammad, for not consenting to an abortion in order to “avoid bringing shame on her family and husband” who was working outside the country. In the presence of her four children, he locked Fathiyah in her bathroom, 28 – Sami a. Aldeeb Abu-Sahlieh, L’Ethique sexuelle en droit musulman et arabe, cas de l’Egypte, passé, présent et avenir, unpublished text. 29 – El-Nadim Centre and New Women Research Centre, 1994, quoted in Nemat Guenena and Nadia Wassef, see note6, p. 37.
proceeded to pour a can of gasoline under the door and set it alight. He wanted to make sure she would be “completely charred”. Khayri Muhammad was only sentenced to three years hard labour, because the Court established through a pathologist that Fathiyah was in fact pregnant at the time of her death.32 • Thurayya Abd-al-Hamid, a 37 year-old housewife, drowned in a pool of her own blood after her throat was slit by her brother, a government official. She was stabbed 160 times all over her body. Thurayya was murdered because of a rumour that she was going out with her brotherin- law while her husband was out of the country.33 • A pregnant woman in the Muharram Bey quarter of Alexandria was electrocuted to death by her mother for not disclosing the identity of the man who had impregnated her. The mother then filed a report stating that her daughter died of natural causes. After signs of torture were discovered, the mother said that this was done to protect the family honour.34 • A 23-year old woman was assaulted and killed with an axe by her brother for her alleged “misconduct”. He had “doubts about her behaviour”.35 • A man slit his daughter’s throat in order to “cleanse” his honour. He carried her dead body through the streets and repeated, “I have been cleansed of my shame”.36 V i o l e n c e a g a i n s t W o m e n i n E g y p t 22 30 – Muhammad Sa’id, Al Wafd, Crimes of Shame in Defense of Honour, October 24, 1998, pp. 38-39. 31 – Ibid. 32 – Three Years at Hard Labor for Man Who Murdered His Sister in Al-Gharbiyah, Al-Ahrar, December 16, 1998. (This material was provided by Mrs. Nevine Ebaid, International Relation Coordinator for Center for Egyptian Women Legal Assistance (CEWLA), translated from the original Arabic text on file in the Georgetown Women’s Human Rights Center), quoted in a paper written by Marji Kirkwood on honour killings in Egypt, 1999. 33 – Abd-al-Ilah Muhammad, Official Slaughters Sister and Rips Apart Her Body Because of a “Rumor", Al-Ahrar, December 16, 1998. (This material was provided CEWLA, translated from the original Arabic text on file in the Georgetown Women’s Human Rights Center), quoted in ibid. 34 – Center for Egyptian Women’s Issues, Violence and Honor Crimes, 1998, quoted in ibid. 35 – Brother Murders Sister With an Axe Because of Her Misconduct, Al-Ahrar, November 6, 1998. (This material was provided by CEWLA, translated from the original Arabic text on file in the Georgetown Women’s Human Rights Center), quoted in ibid. 36 – Muhammad Sa’id, Al-Wafd, see note 30.
• A wife was shot in “a sensitive spot of her body” because her husband had doubts about her “behaviour”. She did not die.37 • A young woman was killed by her brother because of her bad reputation in their village. However, a pathologist established that the young woman was a virgin.38 • A young woman was killed by her father after trying to run away on her wedding day. “He pursued her and began hitting her on the head with a metal object in the presence of passers-by until she died”.39 • A woman who had completed a two year sentence for adultery was saved by the police from being murdered by her three brothers. They wanted to “erase their dishonour” because of their sister’s adultery.40 • In September 1998, a girl was murdered by her brother because of a rumour. Her body was displayed for all to see.41 • In October a husband murdered his wife and their children because of doubts regarding her “behaviour”.42 Over half of the actual or attempted murder cases reported in Egypt occur within families, either by spouses, parents, children, in-laws, or rejected fiancés.43 Official statistics indicate that murders committed in defence of honour accounted for 5.4% of all the murders committed in 1997.44 In a four-month study for 1998, there were a total of 14 murders allegedly motivated by honour.45 Of those, five were motivated by mere suspicion, one case was motivated by the woman’s occupation (she was a dancer), and eight were by pregnancy resulting from adultery.46 Studies show that this 23 Domestic Violence 37 – Ibid. 38 – Ibid. 39 – Ibid. 40 – Police Thwart Brothers’ Attempt Erase Their Dishonor by Murdering Their Disreputable Sister After Her Release from Prison, Al-Ahram, December 6, 1998, quoted in Marji Kirkwood, see note 32. 41 – Center for Egyptian Women’s Issues, Violence and Honor Crimes, 1998, quoted in ibid. 42 – Ibid. 43 – Enid Hill, Mahkama! Studies in the Egyptian Legal System, Courts & Crimes, Law & Society, 126, 1979, quoted in ibid. 44 – Muhammad Sa’id, Al-Wafd, see note 30. 45 – Center for Egyptian Women’s Issues, see note 34. 46 – Ibid.
type of crime is prevalent in Upper Egypt, the Egyptian countryside, and in low-income urban neighbourhoods.47 Keeping tabs on virginity is therefore rigidly enforced. The least threat to women’s values and morality is severely repressed, hindering their entrance into the public sphere. III.4 Early Marriages Egyptian law stipulates that the legal age for marriage is 16 for girls and 18 for boys. OMCT fears that the age difference in this law encourages the completion of education for boys at the age of 18, while curtailing that of girls, implying that it is of lesser importance. Moreover, this law is rarely enforced and marriage of even younger girls is common. A study conducted by the Minister of Health of Upper Egypt revealed that 44% of rural women married between 1989 and 1993 were under 16 years old at the time of their marriage.48 Traditional, religious and economic motives dictate such marriages. Through the practice of the mahr or bride price, some families see early marriages as a means of improving their financial situation. Early marriage often leads to early pregnancy, before girls are biologically and psychologically mature, which is detrimental to the lives of both the mother and the child.49 The Beijing Platform for Action addressed the problems of early pregnancy associated with child marriage, urging Governments “to enact and strictly enforce laws concerning the minimum legal age of consent and the minimum age of marriage and raise the minimum age for marriage where necessary.”50 According to the national statistics from the Egypt Demographic and Health Survey (1996) of a sample of 14,000 married women, of those who reported having being beaten, 32% were beaten during pregnancy, with V i o l e n c e a g a i n s t W o m e n i n E g y p t 24 47 – Muhammad Sa’id, Al-Wafd, see note 30. 48 – Laila Shukry Al-Hamamsy, Early Marriage and Reproduction in Two Egyptian Villages, Paper for the Population Council/UNFPA, Cairo, 1994, quoted in: Marlyn Tadros, see note 21, pp. 14 -15. 49 – Abortion: A tabulation of available data on the frequency and mortality of unsafe abortions, WHO Doc., WHO/FMF/MSM/92.13, 2nd edition, Maternal Health and Safe Motherhood Programme, Division of Family Health, World Organisation, Geneva, 1993, Violence Against Women, WHO Doc., WHO/FRH/WHD/97.8. 50 – Beijing Platform for Action, para. 274.
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ما عشان البلد وسخة مش محتلرمة مليانة خمرة و بانجو و مخدرات الحريم لازم يخلوا بالهم
Posts: 2728 | From: جمهورية مصر العربية | Registered: Sep 2006
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Women rights is stolen every where not only in Egypt
Who stole these rights??
The Governments that don't ban Alcohol and Narcotic drugs.
U called me arbaggy" like rubbish in English" because i added my point of view. I dont think one like you will be able to launch Women rights by your abusive ways.
I will be happy if u managed to launch Women rights
Regards, Yours Arbaggy
Posts: 2728 | From: جمهورية مصر العربية | Registered: Sep 2006
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so when the quran tell us that if a man calls his wife to the bed and she refuses, the angels scorn her til' morning...that isnt rape? so if she isnt in the mood and doesnt want it one night, she has to allow him to do it anyway or else she is a sinner??? hmmm, makes me wonder. and that whole honor killing crap. if i saw someone kill their own child, i wouldnt think 'oh youre kid was a whore' i would be thinking, 'what the hell kind of sicko kills their own kid?'
Posts: 229 | From: philadelphia, pa, usa | Registered: Oct 2005
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but u see this is does happen and in many cases ithappens in western marriages too the exhusband was not very nice been there and wudnt want to be there again ,i know wat its like to be raped by your own husband to be raped by a stranger then dont know but then myhusband (ex) was a stranger ,quoted wudnt give it to him u go to the crner u stand wif one leg in a bucket of water and then ur leg is tied with rope and to his arm u move his arm move u suffered the concequences im not aashamed to tell this cus im knOW IM good person AND im lovely and beautiful not not the ugly person he made me to be ,,i tell allwomen now its not u its him ...but its not easy ,,being a muslim commnunity it has its stigma u had to be careful what u said and how u did ,,or they wud taunt u or spit at u the men ,,even though it was not you ,but after 16years im weary but changed i wonder for the good i have or not cause im changed i do not trust hardly any more ...
but let u on one note i have forgiven my exhusband cause he will answer to his fault when he dies so this is the challenge ive done my part and he since al this has suffered a great deal ,so i assume my guardian angel was with me inshallah
Posts: 4597 | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by tami025: so when the quran tell us that if a man calls his wife to the bed and she refuses, the angels scorn her til' morning...that isnt rape?
It's MEN that tell us this, not the Qur'an.
A man who sleeps with a woman against her will is a rapist, whether he's married to her or not.
rape
1. the unlawful compelling of a woman through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse.
2. any act of sexual intercourse that is forced upon a person.
Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006
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Is there recognition of marital rape in Islam?
In the context of jirah, it would appear so: where there is any physical harm or disease caused to a spouse, there may be a claim for jirah compensation. The law of jirah provides for compensation for physical harm between spouses, and supports Islamic legislation against domestic abuse. Even in these discussions of appropriate jirah compensation, the question of the injured party’s consent plays a central role. Some Islamic jurists considered consent to be presumed by virtue of the marital relationship, while others maintain that where harm occurs, it is an assault, regardless of the consent, and therefore compensation is due.
In our modern era, one might take these precedents and their premium focus on consent and apply the Islamic principle of sexual autonomy to conclude that any sex without consent is harmful, as a dishonoring of the unwilling party’s sexual autonomy. Thus, modern Islamic jurists and legislators, taking a gender-egalitarian perspective, might conclude that Islamic law does recognize marital rape, and assign the appropriate injunctions and compensation for this personally devastating harm." (Qureshi)
An often misquoted and abused hadith that is used to tyrannize women is that women cannot and should not say no to their husband when he approaches them. Women are advised not to turn away from their husbands except if they have their period or any other reasonable excuse. So much so that she is to break her voluntary fast if her husband approaches her. And if they do angels will curse them. However, this hadith is not quoted with the complementary one that advises men of the same consideration.
In the same manner men are advised that meeting the needs of their wives takes precedence over voluntary worship. Narrated Abdullah bin Amr bin Al-As: "Prophet Muhammad (saw) said, “O Abdullah! I have been informed that you fast all the day and stand in prayer all night?” I said, ‘Yes, O Allah's Apostle!’ He said, “Do not do that! Observe the fast sometimes and also leave them at other times, stand up for the prayer at night and also sleep at night. Your body has a right over you and your wife has a right over you.” (Bukhâri)
To a certain degree these ahâdîth are used to confuse and distract from the issue, since rape does not have anything to do with permission or lack of permission. In a marriage abusive or forced sexual activity cannot be justified by abusing this hadith. Rape is defined as unwanted, violent and forced sex, whether this occurs in a marital context or outside it. The definition of rape does not change because of the relationship.
It is important to not confuse the issue of mutual rights that a couple has on each other with the misguided, distorted and misogynist assumption that women become a husband's property. Islam does not allow for or tolerate ownership of human beings. Human dignity does not allow that any one person has the right to own, mind/body/soul, another human being... and Islam demands that all human beings respect the humanity of everyone.
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How do women get justice, in countries where rape is not illegal in marriage? Where do they go to find protection in countries where they have to ask their husband for permission to leave the house? How do women escape when they are not even allowed to drive? Who cares for the women, in countries where there are no refuge centres to escape to?
I find the declaration that ''raped women should not be punished incredible.'' What a notion.
Rape is a global issue. This problem is caused by the actions of some evil men. All good women and men should work hard to make sure that the shame of rape lands squarely on abusive men. Being married to a woman is not an excuse for abuse. Using religion to justify violating women is unacceptable. The law should offer justice, not protect ancient misogynistic views.
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
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Good article Banana. I wish those "devils on horseback", i.e. the Janjaweed in Sudan, would read this article. "Vengence is Mine", saith the Lord(Book of Romans). Salaam
Posts: 826 | From: U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by MY NAME IS NO MORE .....,:
Islam closes the door to the criminal who wants to commit this crime. Western studies have shown that most rapists are already criminals who commit their crimes under the influence of alcohol and drugs, and they take advantage of the fact that their victims are walking alone in isolated places or staying in the house alone. These studies also show that what the criminals watch on the media and the semi-naked styles of dress in which women go out also lead to the commission of this reprehensible crime.
Excerpted from :http://www.islamonline.net/ Fatwa
Islamonline is wrong. Western studies show that rape and sexual assualt is commited by someone the victim knows and it overwhelmingly done in the victim's own residence.
Islamonline is chosing to perpetuate a grandiose "urban myth" to encourage the curtailment of women's freedoms.
this excerpt is what troubles me most:
These studies also show that what the criminals watch on the media and the semi-naked styles of dress in which women go out also lead to the commission of this reprehensible crime.
the way "Islamonline" frames it as "the woman brought it on herself" which is normally a misgonist view of rape victims. Too bad a so called authority of how God wants us to live brings false testimony of how sexual assualts and rapes are commited and the setting in which they occur.
But what I have read on Islamonline, its pretty much the usual and why I don't trust Islamonline.
If Islamonline wants to help cut down on rapes and sexual assualts or end either, Islamonline needs to encourage victims to come forward even if it the crime was commited by a relative. Islamonline needs to understand that women who wear the Burqah are just as likely to be sexually assualted as women who dress like Pamela Lee Anderson. Its not the opportunity, its how men chose to view women and whether they chose to dehumanize them.
Islamonline needs to submit to God before they submit to male-power!
Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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Islamonline is wrong. Western studies show that rape and sexual assualt is commited by someone the victim knows and it overwhelmingly done in the victim's own residence.
Islamonline is chosing to perpetuate a grandiose "urban myth" to encourage the curtailment of women's freedoms.
this excerpt is what troubles me most:
These studies also show that what the criminals watch on the media and the semi-naked styles of dress in which women go out also lead to the commission of this reprehensible crime.
the way "Islamonline" frames it as "the woman brought it on herself" which is normally a misgonist view of rape victims. Too bad a so called authority of how God wants us to live brings false testimony of how sexual assualts and rapes are commited and the setting in which they occur.
But what I have read on Islamonline, its pretty much the usual and why I don't trust Islamonline.
If Islamonline wants to help cut down on rapes and sexual assualts or end either, Islamonline needs to encourage victims to come forward even if it the crime was commited by a relative. Islamonline needs to understand that women who wear the Burqah are just as likely to be sexually assualted as women who dress like Pamela Lee Anderson. Its not the opportunity, its how men chose to view women and whether they chose to dehumanize them.
I completely agree. And I find it very disturbing to see those myths and misconceptions being perpetuated on so many *Islamic* websites in an attempt to make a point against the West.
Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006
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Girls as young as 9 living in the streets in Iran Sat. 21 Oct 2006
Iran Focus
Tehran, Iran, Oct. 21 – Girls as young as nine are running away from their homes and living on the streets in Iran, according to a classified report issued by the Ministry of Education.
The report was made public by several Persian-language news websites run by former government officials.
It notes that there is an exceptionally high number of run-away girls near Iran’s holy cities of Qom and Mashad.
Iran has one of the highest record of runaway girls and women in the world.
The state-run news agency ILNA reported in July that there were some 300,000 run-away women and girls in Iran and that 86 percent of girls who ran away from their homes for the first time were raped. The majority of such victims are rejected by their families if they choose to return after having been raped.
Islamonline is wrong. Western studies show that rape and sexual assualt is commited by someone the victim knows and it overwhelmingly done in the victim's own residence.
Islamonline is chosing to perpetuate a grandiose "urban myth" to encourage the curtailment of women's freedoms.
this excerpt is what troubles me most:
These studies also show that what the criminals watch on the media and the semi-naked styles of dress in which women go out also lead to the commission of this reprehensible crime.
the way "Islamonline" frames it as "the woman brought it on herself" which is normally a misgonist view of rape victims. Too bad a so called authority of how God wants us to live brings false testimony of how sexual assualts and rapes are commited and the setting in which they occur.
But what I have read on Islamonline, its pretty much the usual and why I don't trust Islamonline.
If Islamonline wants to help cut down on rapes and sexual assualts or end either, Islamonline needs to encourage victims to come forward even if it the crime was commited by a relative. Islamonline needs to understand that women who wear the Burqah are just as likely to be sexually assualted as women who dress like Pamela Lee Anderson. Its not the opportunity, its how men chose to view women and whether they chose to dehumanize them.
I completely agree. And I find it very disturbing to see those myths and misconceptions being perpetuated on so many *Islamic* websites in an attempt to make a point against the West.
I agree with Albino and Dalia. It has taken enough time in western countries to stop idiotic old male judges linking the length of a woman's skirt to her 'encouraging' rape. Men who rape are 100 percent responsible for abusing women. Raped women don't 'Ask for it''. It's about time these outdated ideas were kicked out by Islamic websites. It doesn't reflect well on Islam.
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
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LOL, I just saw the banana and thought of you, Chimps. Apologies to both Daisy and Ms Banana. I've changed it. Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by BANANA FACE(luv it toots thnx): DAISY DUKE huh mean daisuks my banana,,
Oh, no...LOL. From now on, I will wear my reading glasses, before posting. Thanks Chimps. Oops, again DaisukePosts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee: It has taken enough time in western countries to stop idiotic old male judges linking the length of a woman's skirt to her 'encouraging' rape. Men who rape are 100 percent responsible for abusing women. Raped women don't 'Ask for it''. It's about time these outdated ideas were kicked out by Islamic websites. It doesn't reflect well on Islam.
RAPE MYTHS
Myth: Sexual assault is an impulsive, uncontrollable act of passion. The victim is irresistible to the rapist.
Fact: Rape is an act of violence, not of sexual desire. The majority of rapes are planned: the place arranged, enticement used, or the victim deliberately sought and coerced into sexual relations. It is the vulnerability of the victim that attracts the sexual predator. Victims range from infants to the elderly. Anyone, regardless of age, sex, physical appearance, marital status, ethnic, religious or socio-economic background can be raped.
Myth: Women are sexually assaulted when they are out alone at night. If women stay home they will be safe.
Fact: Studies show that the majority of sexual assaults are committed in either the victim’s home or the offender’s home.
Myth: Most rapists hide in dark alleys, waiting for a stranger to walk past.
Facts: The majority of reported rapes occur either in the victim’s home or the home of the attacker. In many cases, the victim met the offender in a public place and then was coerced into accompanying the rapist to the place of the assault. Most rape victims know their attacker at least casually. In many cases, offenders were well known to the victim and were in relationships that one would normally trust, i.e. boyfriend, family friend, close neighbor or relative.
Myth: Sexual assault is provoked by the victim. Victims ask for it by their actions, behaviors, or by the way they dress.
Fact: To say that someone wants to be raped is the same as saying that people ask to be mugged or robbed. In fact, most rapes are at least partially planned in advance and the victim is often threatened with death or bodily harm if he or she resists. Sexual assault is not a spontaneous crime of sexual passion. It is a violent attack on an individual using sex as a weapon. Sex is used to defile, degrade and destroy a victim’s will and control over his or her own body. For the victim, it is a humiliating, near death situation. No person would ask for or deserve such an attack.
Myth: Only “bad girls” get sexually assaulted.
Fact: Sexual assault occurs in all segments of our society. Most rapists choose their targets without regard to physical appearance or lifestyle. Victims are of every type, race, and socio-economic class, young and old alike.
Myth: Rapists are crazy, deranged, abnormal perverts. They are lonely men without female partnership.
Fact: Rape is not a crime of spontaneous passion. Studies show that 60 to 70% of all sexual assaults are planned. Most rapists are married and having consensual sexual relations while assaulting other women. Rapists themselves do not describe their motivation in terms of sexual gratification, but in terms of hatred and conquest. Sex is used as a weapon to inflict violence, humiliation, and degradation on a victim. Indeed, rapists have said that rape is “lousy sex.” Sexual offenders come from all educational, occupational, racial and cultural backgrounds. They tend to test differently from the normal, well-adjusted male only in having a greater tendency to express violence and rage.
Pakistan's parliament has voted to amend controversial laws on rape, removing it from the sole jurisdiction of religious Sharia courts and placing it under the civil penal code. The change makes it easier for victims of rape to prosecute their attackers and has been praised by the Pakistani president.
Pervez Musharraf said the vote was necessary to amend the "unjust rape laws" and helped improve women’s rights.
The change however met with strong opposition by politicians from conservative Islamic parties, who stormed out of the parliament chamber in protest.
They are angry at what they say is the curtailment of Islamic law.
The changes must still be approved by the Pakistani senate in order to take effect. Unfair treatment
Under the Protection of Women Bill, judges will now have the discretion to try rape cases in a criminal rather than an Islamic court.
Until now, rape victims had to produce four – usually male - witnesses to the rape in order to result in a conviction. If not, they could themselves be prosecuted for adultery.
The laws formed part of the Hudood Ordinances introduced in 1979 by Pakistan’s then military ruler, Zia-ul-Haq.
The changes, if approved, will allow convictions to be made on the basis of forensic and circumstantial evidence.
Shaukat Aziz, the Pakistani prime minister, said after the vote would "help lessen to a great extent the unfair and illegal treatment meted out to women".
But, he added, "we are fully aware of the fact that we still have a lot more to do."
Women’s rights groups meanwhile have given the vote a cautious welcome.
"We wanted a total repeal of the 1979 rape law, but the government has not done it," Hina Jillani, a leading Pakistani activist, told the Associated Press news agency.
Conservative opposition politicians have said they will fight to make sure the bill does not pass the senate stage.
"We reject it," said Malaun Fazlur Rahman, head of the Jamiat Ulema-i-Islam (Islamic Party of Religious Leaders).
I am a Muslimah and like all other Muslims, I don’t have a brain. Kafirs may think that living without a brain is difficult, but someone called A.T.M.M (Allah the most merciful) has shown us a way of living without a brain.
We do exactly what a Mullah says and the Mullah says exactly what is written in Qura’n. So, we live on this earth following the words of A.T.M.M. We don’t think of our own. We don’t have our own ideas on anything. When Mullahs tell us something we just obey them. Even though I live in India, I hate India the most, just because Mullahs told me to hate India. I do whatever possible to see the destruction of India. Kafirs may think that living in India and trying to destroy India is something like setting fire to one’s own house. But it has been written in Qura’n that this world is divided into two, dar-ul-islam and dar-ul-harb, and that I should always work for destroying darb-ul-harb. That is what the mullahs taught me. I follow that exactly although it means destroying my own country. Kafirs may think that I am foolish, but they think because they have an additional organ in their body, called brain in which the Satan resides. I am fortunate that I am a Muslimah and I don’t have a brain.
When I was a schoolgirl, my classmates used to sing the national song of India “vande mataram” which means ‘I bow before my motherland’ during the school assembly. But I used to keep quite because being a Muslim I should bow only before A.T.M.M and the mullahs (As per my knowledge, Allah and mullah are brothers and a mullah lives exploiting the faith that people have in Allah). Most of my classmates were Kafirs. Though they loved me more than their lives, I hated them. But I acted as if I loved them. One of my Kafir friends had some strange ideas. She always used to tell me that god doesn’t need mosques, churches or temples to live in. Instead of wasting money on mosques, churches and temples, people should spend money on helping each other. According to her, “humanity” is the greatest religion. Being a Muslimah, I consider humanity as the greatest threat to Islam.
My eldest brother became a smuggler at 22 years of age when I was in sixth grade. All other brothers joined him later. Kafirs say that Muslims can be easily made to join in smuggling gangs and terrorist organizations as Muslims can be easily brainwashed. That makes me laugh. A Muslim can be washed, but not brainwashed, as we Muslims are lucky in not having a brain. Kafirs complain that instead of doing some productive works, Muslims either become smugglers or terrorists. What is wrong in being a smuggler or a terrorist? If you have a brain then you will think it is wrong. But if you remove the evil organ called brain from your head, you will understand how noble these professions are.
I got married at a very young age like most of the other Muslim women. Today I am the wife of a proud jihadi and mother of 9 children. I want to give birth to at least 6 more children. Kafirs may laugh at this but they laugh because they have an additional organ called brain. We Muslims have no brains and we will go on producing children like machines till our Muslim army is big enough to defeat the Kafir army.
All of my eight brothers are smugglers and I help them in all possible ways to destroying the economy of my country, India. My husband is a jihadi leader who gets frequent training from Pakistan. His terrorist organization gets all the money from Saudi Arabia and other countries in the Middle East. He often tells me that Saudi Arabia is the father of jihad and Pakistan is the mother, so we should always respect these two countries. Of course, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia have a special place in the minds of all Muslim children. I have heard them singing “ Jihad, Jihad, everywhere, Saudi Arabia is the father and Pakistan is the mother”. United States of America, our worst enemy claims that Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are its closest allies in the war against terror. Wow, how thrilling! It is better to be a Muslim than being an American as it is better not to have a brain than having a brain and not using it.
My husband was once caught by the police, but thanks to the democratic system that exists in my country. Congress and communist leaders came rushing in to save my husband. They somehow forced the police to let him free even without registering a case against him. Recently, a bullet from the police hit my husband’s leg. Now he is planning to retire from jihad and become a mullah. In the past, the practice was that mullahs became jihadi leaders at the end of their career, but today the practice is that jihadis become mullahs at the end of their career. My husband tells me that mullahs have the “holy license” to lead a luxurious life sucking the blood of common Muslims. That means I can lead a luxurious life along with my husband, his three other wives (I call them co-wives) and our army of children. Our children are also very happy about it (I did not mention the total number of children because I have not counted them till date). My husband knows nothing other than loving Islam, giving hate speeches and killing civilians. Naturally, becoming a mullah becomes his only choice after retirement. He has never even seen the gate of a school or a college. Schools are places where it is taught that earth is round! How stupid! It has been stated in Qur’an that earth is flat. Just by looking down itself one can understand that the earth is flat. The additional organ called brain is really spoiling the Kafirs. In schools, some other stupidities are also taught, like, “theory of evolution” and “solar system”. According to Qur’an, all the human beings are made of dirt. Sun rises from the mud and sets in the mud. So why are schools wasting time teaching “theory of evolution” and “solar system”? I am really tired of these Kafirs.
Mullahs teach the Muslim community the real science called “Miracles of Islam”. Some people who are hesitant in respecting mullahs argue that according to true Islam, mullahs have no place in the religion. But being Allah’s brothers, Mullahs voluntarily came forward to help Allah in establishing his laws of the land. Allah-mullah duo works with great coordination, even better than Ronaldo-Ronaldinjho duo for achieving their goals. I don’t know what Allah gets by establishing his law on the land, but I know exactly what mullahs get. Mullahs attain high social status, political strength as well as economic power through helping Allah. Wow, three birds in one shot! There is no wonder why mullahs came forward to help their brother Allah. Kafirs can’t understand what a common Muslim gains by letting mullahs suck our blood and eat away our freedom. Some of them even say that mullahs lead a ‘shameless’ life by exploiting ordinary Muslim masses. Mullahs are never doing anything ‘shameless’. If a prostitute lives by selling her body, what is wrong in a mullah living by selling his religion?
My husband as well as my brothers can’t live without my assistance. I give them new ideas everyday, be it killing civilians or smuggling drugs. Still I consider myself a less intelligent compared to them just because A.T.M.M has told that we women are less intelligent compared to men. After my death, even if I reach heaven, I well get nothing as nothing is available for a woman in the heaven. But, my husband will get 72 houris with swelling boobs and large eyes. Anyway, I am really afraid of hellfire. I can’t even imagine myself getting burnt in hellfire. I always carry a fire extinguisher along with me so that if I die and reach hell, I can save myself from A.T.M.M’s punishment “hellfire”. We Muslims are ready to turn the whole world into a bloody hell in order to save ourselves from going to hell. Kafirs have no other choice than going to hell according to our great religion. I know why Kafirs never make it to heaven. They have an evil organ in the body, BRAIN. What is this stupid organ all about? It is really making me curious. Is it possible to buy a brain from somewhere? I want to live with a brain just for one day. I just want to know what this thinking process is. I want to know why I would question Qur’an as well as Allah-mullah duo’s supremacy, if I have a brain. Where can I buy a brain? Even if I live with a brain for one day, I may not reach heaven. But I know the solution. With a brain I can THINK and find out some way of reaching heaven without Allah-mullah duo’s knowledge. So I want a brain just for one day.
Where can I buy a brain?
Posts: 428 | Registered: Nov 2004
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Question: Is it not a form of sexual abuse for a husband to be able to force his wife to have sex? How come the wife does not have the same right?
Answer: ...there is a legal difference between the husband and wife’s right to sex: the husband can demand sex, and the wife is obliged to agree unless there is a genuine physical or Shariah preventative. Even if she disagrees, he has the legal right to insist that she comply. While it is obligatory for the husband to fulfill his wife’s sexual needs, she cannot demand that he have sex with her if he does not want to. (their emphasis)
Answered by Shaykh Faraz Rabbani at SunniPath.com. Read the entire thing here .
Here are 17 observations in no particular order (seventeen is a good Islamic number):
1. Marital rape is wrong. Horribly, horribly wrong.
2. People who don’t understand this should not be issuing fatwas. Children shouldn’t be playing with matches.
3. The sheikh argues that if a man is not allowed to have sex with his wife (with or without her consent), then he will go out and create abominations is society. There is no guarantee that such a man will cause abominations. There is an absolute guarantee of abomination if a man has sex with his wife without her consent.
4. One abomination that the sheikh does mention by name is masturbation. Dear Islamic scholars, if you are thinking of sexually abusing your wife, please go ahead and use the fist instead. Please do it in moderation. You have my permission as long as it is your own.
5. The only other abomination that the scholar mentions is that a woman's right to sexual consent will cause “sexual politics” in the family. Maybe it did not occur to him that the presence of sexual abuse may cause sexual politics in the household also.
6. All the Islamic sources that the sheikh cites are gender neutral and make the general opposite point: “men be kind to your wives, women be kind to your husband” sort of stuff. The scholar does not explain how he extracted “man demands non-consensual sex: allowed. Woman demands the same: not allowed” from these.
7. The only quote that he uses that is not perfectly gender neutral is the famous one about angels cursing wives who do not give their consent for sex every single time. The sheikh makes no effort to explain why this means that no consent is required to begin with.
8. Where do all these abominable fatwas come from?
a. Some come from poor Shariah, such as the obviously man made hadith mentioned above. b. Some come from terrible logic applied to perfectly good Shariah. Take two verses from the Quran that say "be kind to your wife" and conclude that this proves that a wife’s consent is not needed for sex. There is a lot of “2 + 2 = 5” in traditional Islamic scholarship, and the teacher is always right no matter what he comes up with. c. Sometimes it is neither a set of bad sources, or bad logic applied to good sources. Sometimes it is bad social science and bad understanding of human nature that is masquerading as Allah’s will.
9. One of the silliest (but not uncommon) objections to a woman leading the prayers is that the sight of a woman in prayer would drive men into an uncontrolled sexual frenzy. I don’t know what sort of perverts these scholars hang out with, but that is not how any man I have ever known behaves. This sort of amateur (and perverse) social theory lies at the heart of a lot of Islamic ruling on gender issues.
10. Maybe Islamic scholars should discuss the reasons why a wife might not want sex on a particular day, and all the things that a husband could do short of forcing himself upon her. Listening to her would be a good start. Maybe a little cuddling would be nice too. Maybe it's his turn to empty the dishwasher.
11. I am not impressed that these harsh and unkind rulings come packaged in general platitudes about Islamic kindness. Hogwash. Don’t tell me that it is OK for me to rape the cleaning lady when she comes over, and then add that the rape must be conducted within the framework of Islamic kindness. Man’s laws about marital rape can not coexist with God’s laws about kindness and justice. One or the other has to give.
12. Among the sources that the sheikh cites are “a scholar” and “one of the scholars from Syria” without any further references. Maybe a high-school level critical thinking and writing class should be required from all Sunni Path muftis. Of course, none of these anonymous scholars have anything specific to say about not needing a wife’s consent.
13. Maybe the scholar has some secret sources that directly support his twisted logic about sexual consent. Why does he bother with the rest of the mumbo-jumbo if he is not going to share these sources?
14. The scholar says that good sex makes a happy marriage, and then he adds that Western studies agree with this. Hey, even I agree with this. But who cares what Western studies say? If the good scholar is so concerned about Western studies then maybe he should look up what they say about sex without consent.
15. Sunni Path is not some fringe loony institution located in tribal areas of Pakistan. They are a mainstream American Muslim institution, as best as I can tell. “Most of our teachers were raised and educated in the West and only studied with teachers in the Muslim heartlands later in their lives,” they proclaim. This is explained in the section where they talk about how they are "sensitive to the needs of Muslims living in the modern world."
quote:Originally posted by tami025: so when the quran tell us that if a man calls his wife to the bed and she refuses, the angels scorn her til' morning...that isnt rape?
It's MEN that tell us this, not the Qur'an.
A man who sleeps with a woman against her will is a rapist, whether he's married to her or not.
rape
1. the unlawful compelling of a woman through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse.
2. any act of sexual intercourse that is forced upon a person.
No Qur'an tell us that
Posts: 173 | From: Sun | Registered: Feb 2007
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God is aware of men's needs. He knows that a man may have just come home, and maybe he desires something or maybe he saw something. He knows what this need is, and this is why he ordered the wife to consent to her husband, even if she is by the stove. Even if she is baking she must consent to him. Moreover, the Prophet Muhammad said to the woman: "Compare yourself to him, he's your paradise and your hell." Imam Ahmad passed this on in his true Hadith. The wife must consent to her husband's wishes and obey him.
The wife in the West is not obligated to do so. Moreover, a wife can be raped by her husband there. They claim that if he has sex with her against her will - this is rape! They consider this rape. They claim she must be willing. They claim that she must want it. There is a disagreement in the West on this issue. Some do give the husband the right to whatever he wants, but in many other cases they don't. Therefore, the wife doesn't submit to the man whenever he wants.
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Dalia you need to quit it. You know the hadeeth. You know it's authentic. Just be a good Muslimah if/when your husbands calls you to bed..just go and obey like good wife.
Don't make trouble don't make the angels mad..just go. Stop trying to bump up against the system.
Women like you are making the problems not the men. You hate to be told to do anything especially by a man. Get over it.
We are not equal (men/women) we both have different roles to play and fulfil such is life. Good, bad, right or wrong, like it or not. You ain't gonna change Islaam to some new age thinking cult. It ain't gonna happen. The Quran and ahadeeh will always disprove your theories any day, any time walhamdulillah.
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands: Dalia you need to quit it. You know the hadeeth. You know it's authentic. Just be a good Muslimah if/when your husbands calls you to bed..just go and obey like good wife.
Don't make trouble don't make the angels mad..just go. Stop trying to bump up against the system.
Women like you are making the problems not the men. You hate to be told to do anything especially by a man. Get over it.
We are not equal (men/women) we both have different roles to play and fulfil such is life. Good, bad, right or wrong, like it or not. You ain't gonna change Islaam to some new age thinking cult. It ain't gonna happen. The Quran and ahadeeh will always disprove your theories any day, any time walhamdulillah.
I'm starting to wonder if Sammy hires people like you and hormheb to juice up the forum a bit! How much does he pay you?
Posts: 173 | Registered: Aug 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands: Dalia you need to quit it. You know the hadeeth. You know it's authentic. Just be a good Muslimah if/when your husbands calls you to bed..just go and obey like good wife.
Don't make trouble don't make the angels mad..just go. Stop trying to bump up against the system.
Women like you are making the problems not the men. You hate to be told to do anything especially by a man. Get over it.
We are not equal (men/women) we both have different roles to play and fulfil such is life. Good, bad, right or wrong, like it or not. You ain't gonna change Islaam to some new age thinking cult. It ain't gonna happen. The Quran and ahadeeh will always disprove your theories any day, any time walhamdulillah.
I'm starting to wonder if Sammy hires people like you and hormheb to juice up the forum a bit! How much does he pay you?
Darn it! I've been busted.
Remember people don't forget to support our advertisers!
(Be quiet reserve don't tell anyone let's just keep this between you and I okay?)
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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FP: So tell us in general where Islam stands on women and why.
Warner: Islam’s stand on women is the same as its stand on every issue—duality and submission. Dualism demands that everything is seen, not as a unified whole, but as divided. The primary political duality is the division between kafirs (unbelievers) and believers. The primary internal duality is the division between males and females.
The principle of submission means that one must rule over the other. No surprise, the women must submit to the men.
CSPI measured the submission of the female to the male by analyzing the Islamic doctrine. All of Islam’s doctrine is found in the Koran, the Hadith (Traditions) and the Sira (the life of Mohammed), the Trilogy. We collected every verse, every paragraph and every sentence that mentioned women and their power relationships. These were all categorized into the women being superior, inferior, equal or merely mentioned.
In 4% of the cases, women were superior, in 91% of the cases they were inferior and in 5% they were equal. But there is a big catch. The only way that women are equal is after death on Judgment day, when men and women will be judged on how well they followed the Koran and the Sunna. And guess what? The only way to follow the Koran and the Sunna is to obey men. Equality means obeying men.
Woman are superior by being a mother, who must obey her husband. So the perfect woman on Judgment day will be a mother, who obeyed all the men in her life. So really, the women are subordinate to men in 100% of all of the Koran, Hadith and the Sira.
FP: So what’s the story on sex in heaven? Apparently men will have lots of fun but not women?
Warner: What does the perfect Muslim woman find when she gets to Paradise? A male Paradise. Her husband will have his pick of Allah’s houris for sex. These houris are the perfect Islamic women. They are light-complexioned, sexy, shy, perpetual virgins who never say no.
The question arises: why shy and why virgins? Since submission is key to Islam, then submission must apply in Paradise as well. A virgin knows nothing, is a blank slate, and is easily dominated. A shy woman has the same submissive qualities. A houri will not even look you in the eye, nor offer any opinions about anything.
The word houri never appears in the Koran. It is always in the plural, houris, although the Koran does not say 72 virgins, just virgins. So a subservient Islamic woman must wait in line behind perfect women to see her husband. The promised equality on Judgment day would imply that there are male houris for her pleasure, but no. There are eternally young, beautiful boys, but they don’t seem to be there for the women.
However, women are included in the drinking wine, fine food, lying about in the shade and watching and taunting the kafirs (unbelievers) burning in Hell. So Paradise is just like earth, a place based upon duality and submission. Women must submit to men in this life and the life hereafter.
This parallel between Islam after death and in this life is important. Islam is usually seen as a vague and confusing doctrine. This is not true. All of Islam is built on duality and submission. Islam is absolutely logical and coherent in heaven, hell and earth. Islam is submission and duality yesterday, today and tomorrow.
FP: Why does Islam teach that most people in hell will be women?
Warner: Women may come up shy in Paradise, but they get more than their fair share of justice in Hell. The Bukhari’s Hadith (Traditions) record over twenty times how the majority of those in Hell will be women. Why are these women in Hell? Murder? Theft? Lying? Cheating? No, they were not grateful to their husband. They were not submissive enough.
In the same hadith, Mohammed says that women are not as smart as men. That is the reason that it takes two women to equal the testimony of one man. By that formula, a woman is half as smart as a man. The final part of this hadith also assures us that women are spiritually inferior to men because they can’t pray when having their period.
Again, all of this is a manifestation of submission, women must submit to men in all things including intelligence and spirituality.
This inferiority started with Mohammed, just like everything else in Islam. Since Mohammed is the ideal model of a Muslim, the one to be copied in everything, we must turn to Mohammed to understand sexual roles in Islam.
FP: How many wives did Mohammed have?
Warner: We know a great deal about Mohammed’s sexuality. It is recorded in incredible detail. Mohammed’s sexual life is like the Koran in that it is divided into Mecca (early) and Medina (later). In Mecca he was married to a widow and had six children. His wife died shortly before he was driven out of Mecca into Medina. After her death, his sex life took an abrupt turn. He engaged himself to Aisha at the age of six and also married a widow.
In Medina he (age 53) started having sex with the nine-year-old Aisha. She was always his favorite. Most of the sexual details are told by Aisha and recorded in the Hadith.
By the time he died he had nine wives and several sex slaves. Mohammed is seen as the perfect Islamic husband and part of his perfection is his role as “stud” in the harem. Every Muslim male wants to be like Mohammed.
FP: How about the subject of wife beating?
Warner: Women must submit to men in all things. But this causes some human problems. If the woman does not submit, what is the man to do? After all, the wife will have violated the sacred law of submission. Mohammed had a solution to this misbehavior—beat her. After all, Allah said it was good to beat the wife. Koran 4:34 says that if a wife is not submissive, first admonish them and remind them that Allah wants them to submit. If they don’t submit then use social pressure by ignoring them and not having sex. If that doesn’t work, then beat them lightly.
Mohammed laid out more rules for these beatings. Do not strike them in the face. (That leaves public bruises.) One of his rules (Sunna) was not to ask a man why he beats his wife.
He stood around, more than once, while beatings were administered to women and slaves. Beatings are a fundamental part of Islamic justice. The Koran mentions Job beating his wife, beatings in Hell and beatings for adultery. Mohammed gave advice to a woman not to marry a certain man because he beat his wives, but he did not condemn the beatings. When a woman came before him seeking justice about her husband, her face was bruised from a beating. Mohammed made no comment about the beating that bruised her face.
Beating the Muslim wife is not to be done in outrage. No, the husband is putting the world into Islamic order of duality and submission. The husband submits to Allah and the Sunna of Mohammed. The wife must submit to Allah, the Sunna and her husband. Her lack of submission is a fault in the world and the beating restores the proper order of submission. Beatings are justice. So when the husband beats his wife, both are partaking in a sacred moment of good (what is permitted).
FP: Did Mohammed beat any of his wives?
Warner: We have only one record of Mohammed hitting one of his wives, Aisha. Her father, in the presence of Mohammed, also hit Aisha. Mohammed made no complaint. At one period in Medina, Mohammed said not to beat women. But that developed into the practical advice that if you beat your wife during the day, don’t expect to get any loving that night.
Mohammed was around a lot of beatings. For example, he stood by while Ali beat Mohammed’s slave to make her tell the truth about the affair of Aisha and her possible assignation with a jihadist.
FP: What was Mohammed’s family life like?
Warner: Mohammed had a very busy family life. But even though he was the most perfect man who ever lived, life was not always harmonious around the house. His favorite wife was the little Aisha, but for a while his favorite sex partner was a Christian slave called Mary. She was a gift to him and came with a sister. He gave the sister away as a present to help placate his favorite poet.
One day, one of his wives, Hafsa, went into her room to find Mohammed in some state of intimacy with his sex slave. Now, it was granted by Allah that Mohammed could have as many sex slaves as he wished, but not in a wife’s bedroom. Hafsa was outraged and Mohammed tried to placate her and told her not to mention it to the other wives. Good luck. The harem erupted in anger and coolness.
Mohammed retreated from his wives and set up his sex slave in another apartment. He stayed away for a month. Allah even weighed in on his sex life (Allah had a lot to say about Mohammed and sex and it was all good for Mohammed). Allah said Mohammed could divorce all of them and get better ones, if he wanted.
In the end, he went back to his familiar family scene.
Allah also gave him permission to marry his daughter-in-law. Mohammed craved his adopted son’s wife. Incest laws prevented his marriage, but Allah weighed in and said that his adopted son was never a real son, so go ahead and marry her. Even Aisha remarked that Allah was quick to grant Mohammed his pleasures.
There is a large amount of text about how the wives fought, argued, and plotted against each other. Jealousy was an ongoing state of affairs in the Mohammed household. It turns out that you can’t get a houseful of women to live in harmony with the ideal man.
FP: Can you talk a bit about menstruation?
Warner: Islam is always about submission and duality. What is amazing is how completely this is applied. There is no part of being a human being that is not to submit to Islam. Women are divided from men and must submit in all things, including every aspect of femininity. Men tell women what they can and cannot do about their most personal life, having a period. Allah and Mohammed tell women that they are unclean during their period. They should not go the mosque or pray during their period.
But it does not stop there. Men even tell women how long to nurse a child. Islam is obsessive/compulsive. Nothing, absolutely nothing, is left out for Islam to dictate.
FP: Is it true that Islamic doctrine advocates rape?
Warner: Mohammed and the Koran advocate rape of the kafirs. After their battles the jihadists partook in the pleasure of raping the wives and daughters of the conquered men. Duality separates the kafirs from a real humanity and submission means that the cruelest treatment is given to them so they will submit. It is only just.
Rape is a supreme tactic of war and Mohammed used it in everyway possible. Rape humiliates the kafir men and crushes the spirit of the women. It is the perfect weapon of fear and subjugation. How much more humiliated and subjugated can a woman be? The history of jihad shows that rape was a constant.
Rape is in use today, but the media refuses to talk about it. The media does not want to offend Islam by unpleasant news. The use of rape by Islam is a forbidden topic. Islamic rape of European women is happening now, but our media refuses to ever mention it. Now, it could be that the media does not like to connect sexual malfeasance with a religion, but the media eagerly reports about Catholic priests and children for instance. Think of the number of times the press has covered some preacher’s sexual misconduct. No, the media loves sex and religion.
What the media does not want to do is to criticize anything about Islam. Reporting the rape of the school children at Beslan, Russia would mean finding fault in Islam. And Islam would harass the media. The media fear Islam.
Dualistic ethics make rape a virtue. Islam has one ethical code for Muslims and another one for kafirs—dualism. The kafir woman is not real human. Allah hates kafirs and sanctioned rape. So when a Muslim rapes a kafir, he is partaking in sacred behavior, sanctioned by his ethics. Rape of the kafir is Sunna (following the ideal behavior of Mohammed).
FP: Why is the veil/hijab so important and what is its real role?
Warner: The veil is the supreme symbol of duality and Islam. How separate can a woman be? The most dangerous aspect of a women is her sexuality. All aspects of the veil/hijab control this, including the headscarf. It says to Muslims, “I have submitted to Islamic men.”
The Muslim female dress is a battle flag of jihad. She is better than us. It says to the civilization of equality and freedom, “I hate your freedom. I hate your equality. I want nothing of you (except your money and technology).” For the kafir the veil is the same symbol of subjugation and oppression that of the Ku Klux Klan white robe.
The veil/hijab is also a way of subjugating the woman in public. All aspects of being a woman are controlled by Islam (men).
In the end, there are two things to remember about Islam and sex—duality and submission . Islamic dualism separates men from women. Submission makes sure that the women submit to the men.
Islam is a civilization that is entirely based upon duality and submission. Our civilization is based upon equality and freedom. These two civilizations cannot co-exist. Islam is ahead of us here, because the incompatibility of the two is clearly stated and gives the world the solution for this incompatibility. We must submit to Islam and exchange freedom and equality for Islamic slavery.
This is not really an inherent problem, since we have faced other doctrines that said we must submit. Communism and Nazism come to mind. In the past our intellectuals have attacked our enemies of our civilization and defended our civilization. But our intellectual system has degenerated and is no longer capable of defending us or attacking our enemy.
Our intellectuals have decided that we don’t even have a civilization, it is just one big multicultural world where all of the cultures are equal. So there is nothing to defend.
quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands:
Just be a good Muslimah if/when your husbands calls you to bed..just go and obey like good wife.
Don't make trouble don't make the angels mad..just go.
You're trying a bit too hard, sands, it's very obvious. But continue the good work, you keep cracking me up.
But you know, I can imagine better things for my life than being no more than a hole for a man's sperm that he can use and dispose of whenever he wishes. Unfortunately, people like this sheikh are so stuck up in their own desires, ideas and ignorance that they are unable to see a woman as anything else but a sexual object and a slave to her husband. "God is aware of men's needs" ... yeah, right! And what about womens' needs? Just because Mr Al Munajjid couldn't care less about womens' needs he assumes God doesn't either. Big mistake imo ...
Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands:
Just be a good Muslimah if/when your husbands calls you to bed..just go and obey like good wife.
Don't make trouble don't make the angels mad..just go.
You're trying a bit too hard, sands, it's very obvious. But continue the good work, you keep cracking me up.
But you know, I can imagine better things for my life than being no more than a hole for a man's sperm that he can use and dispose of whenever he wishes. Unfortunately, people like this sheikh are so stuck up in their own desires, ideas and ignorance that they are unable to see a woman as anything else but a sexual object and a slave to her husband. "God is aware of men's needs" ... yeah, right! And what about womens' needs? Just because Mr Al Munajjid couldn't care less about womens' needs he assumes God doesn't either. Big mistake imo ...
Everyone knows women are sexual creatures too. Even Umar bin Khattab (RA) asked Hafs this question and this was the reason he called the men back from jihad after 4 months of service.
Don't act like you women don't need or want sex. If anyone being hard here it's you Dalia..loosen up a bit..you'll enjoy the finer things in life better inshaa Allah.
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee: How do women get justice, in countries where rape is not illegal in marriage?
Marital rape isn't even illegal in the State of Maryland unless the husband threatens or uses force. A simple *no* does not count in Maryland. I'm sure several other U.S. states are like this, too. Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
Does this marial rape issue go for me as well?
Are men able to be raped by women and take their wives to court for marital rape?
-------------------- 'Abdullah bin 'Umar said, "Allah's Apostle (صلى الله عليه و سلم) took hold of my shoulder and said, "Be in this world as if you were a stranger or a traveller." Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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Lord Woolf, issuing new sentencing guidelines to Crown Court judges, agreed with the view that "rape is rape" and cannot be divided into more or less serious offences.
Posts: 3188 | Registered: Feb 2007
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Arab militias in Sudan are gang-raping and abducting girls as young as eight and women as old as 80, systematically killing, torturing, or using them as sex slaves, an Amnesty International report has said.
Militias known as Janjaweed, which rights groups say are backed by the government, have been fighting rebels in Sudan's western Darfur region since last year, triggering one of the world's worst humanitarian crises.
"When we tried to escape they shot more children," one woman told Amnesty researchers.
"They raped women, I saw many cases of Janjaweed raping women and girls. They are happy when they rape. They sing when they rape and they tell us that we are just slaves and that they can do with us how they wish."
Homes bombed, crops stolen
As many as 30,000 people have been killed in Darfur and more than a million displaced, their homes bombed by government planes, their crops stolen.
In a report called "Rape as a Weapon of War", Amnesty outlines sexual violence against women it says is happening on a massive scale. It says Khartoum is actively violating its legal obligations to protect civilians.
"Soldiers of the Sudan government army are present during attacks by the Janjaweed and when rapes are committed, but the Sudan government has done nothing so far to stop them," Amnesty researcher Benedicte Goderiaux told a news conference.
Darfur's rebels accuse the government of arming the Arab Janjaweed to loot and burn African villages in a campaign of ethnic cleansing. Khartoum denies the charge.
The Sudan embassy in Beirut said in a statement that the Amnesty report was aimed at defaming the government, distorting Arab culture and driving a wedge between Sudan's ethnic groups.
Gang rapes
The Amnesty report, launched in Beirut and Nairobi, details gang rapes, public rapes, killings of those who resist rape, abductions for sexual slavery, and cases where women and girls have had their legs broken to stop them running away.
It is based on hundreds of testimonies collected from refugees in camps in Chad. Although the sample of victims was limited, Amnesty said it pointed to widespread abuse.
The London-based group said rebels fighting the Janjaweed may also have raped civilians, but facts were limited.
One woman was five months pregnant when the Janjaweed abducted her and eight others during an attack in July.
"After six days some of the girls were released. But the others, as young as eight years old, were kept there," she said.
"Five to six men would rape us in rounds, one after the other for hours during six days every night. My husband could not forgive me after this, he disowned me."
Calls for disarmament
Efforts to end the crisis through negotiations are in tatters after rebels stormed out of peace talks last week. They said they would only meet government delegates when Khartoum fulfilled promises including disarming the Janjaweed.
Amnesty called for an end to the conflict, better protection of civilians, Janjaweed disarmament, trials for those carrying out the attacks and an international commission of inquiry to examine war crimes in Darfur.
A separate conflict in Sudan between the government and southern rebels has killed around two million people in the past two decades. Peace negotiations have brought it close to an end.
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands: Don't act like you women don't need or want sex.
You completely missed my point.
I know this is hard to comprehend for some people, but believe me -- even women with a high sex drive don't want to be raped.
Oh, and thanks for your advice, but I already know very well how to appreciate the finer things in life. Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands: Don't act like you women don't need or want sex.
You completely missed my point.
I know this is hard to comprehend for some people, but believe me -- even women with a high sex drive don't want to be raped.
You're missing my point to. However, you (and the majority of the women here) keep bypassing over whether men can be martial rape by their spouses..still waiting for a reply.
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Well, I guess they can, and if they do, the perpetrator should be punished, of course.
I don't know much about this subject though, I know men get raped by other men, but I guess men being raped by women is something that happens much less frequently.
I'm at work now, so I don't really have time to research this issue ... but I will later.
Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Dalia*: Well, I guess they can, and if they do, the perpetrator should be punished, of course.
I don't know much about this subject though, I know men get raped by other men, but I guess men being raped by women is something that happens much less frequently.
I'm at work now, so I don't really have time to research this issue ... but I will later.
Okay thanks..I wait for your research info..and also for other women to response.
However, please if it is the case that men are raped less frequently don't give it less credence and sweep this issue under the rug..it is just as important as women being "marital rape".
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Yes, men can be raped by a woman. An erection can occur spontaneously, even though the man does not want sex. So what's your point?
Certainly a woman who rapes a man should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. No doubt, this is a harder case to prove let alone the fact that gender stereotypes will influence many people today to believe a man can't be raped. That is probably what you believe also, no?
Even though women can rape, such acts are perpetrated by males at such a higher frequency than women because agression and violence...thanks to testosterone...are simply wired into the male psyche far more than a woman.
Most men, no matter what country they are from, believe, on some level that they are entitled to their wife's body whenever they wish. Even American men...but American men have been properly educated and trained that this attitude will get them alot less action if they dare "demand" it.
The smart man respects his wife's feelings and moods...such give and take creates intimacy and helps them grow closer together...such intimacy creates emotional trust...an emotional need that needs to be met in a woman if she is going to desire her husband.
Posts: 407 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands: Okay Dalia is not the only one who has to answer that question.
Can a woman/wife rape her husband?
Can a GF rape her BF?
Can a mistress rape her lover?
Yes. The simplest example is statutory rape. A person under a certain age is not deemed capable of giving consent.
When I worked in the court system, I had a case where a woman had sex with her own 9 year old son. She was charged with rape.
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
I have one comment about the title of the thread versus the content of the thread.
If you have a right to something, this does not mean that you are entitled to use force to secure it. If someone owes you money and refuses to pay, they are at fault, but you can't pull a gun and force them to pay. That would be a crime regardless of who had the rights to what.
The question of whether sex is a marital right for men in Islam is an important question, but it is not a question about rape. If the wife is at fault for withholding sex from her husband, or the husband is at fault for say withholding support from his wife, this does not entitle the wronged party to use force to get what they want.
Posts: 374 | From: men gheir laff w dawaran | Registered: Sep 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Politically Incorrect: If you have a right to something, this does not mean that you are entitled to use force to secure it.
Didn't read the rest of the thread but I like your observation. Quite valid
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And what about womens' needs? Just because Mr Al Munajjid couldn't care less about womens' needs he assumes God doesn't either. Big mistake imo ...
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