posted
Though there is no evidence that the Habiru were a single ethnic group of people, the fact is that the Hebrew people are also not a true ethnic people but a diverse group of people.
What is further interesting is that from the perspective of those people who had to deal with the Hebrews, these nomadic wanderers would have been considered thieves and murderers.
From the Amarna letters, clearly those being threatened by the Hebrews, tried to ally themselves with the Egyptians for protection. This did not seem to help.
---------------------------- A Letter from Abdu-Heba of Jerusalem
May the king direct his attention to the archers, and may the king, my Lord, send troops of archers, the king has no more lands. The Hapiru sack the territories of the king. If there are archers (here) this year, all the territories of the king will remain (intact); but if there are no archers, the territories of the king, my Lord, will be lost! To the king, my Lord thus writes Abdu-Heba, your servant. He conveys eloquent words to the king, my Lord. All the territories of the king, my Lord, are lost.
Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
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posted
You seem to have correctly concluded that they were, all by your lonesome. So why the question, don't trust your judgment?
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
It is an exciting bit of evidence supporting the conquest of Palestine by a people called the Habiru which are also mentioned in Egyptian text.
The fact that Habiru has a meaning that is very similar to the meaning of Hebrew is also something we should not ignore.
-------------------- Across the sea of time, there can only be one of you. Make you the best one you can be. Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
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posted
Every now and then a new interesting piece of evidence comes forward that can explain history we know from ancient myth and other ancient sources like the bible.
For example, we prolly all know about Yuya, and that some people think he is the historical Jacob. The arguments for speculating he was foreign are not unreasonable, as he was taller than the average egyptian, he had a large number of name spellings that were unusual and he was an advisor of the Pharao, just like Jacob. Also, several have said that the ''Ya'' in ''Yuya'' resembles the word ''sef'' in hieroglifs giving people reason to think he was Yusef, the Arabian version of Jacob.
In my opinion, the Apiru are one of those things that like the Apiru seem to make alot of sense, but yet they don't fit all the evidence exactly.
quote: Originally posed by Kalonji: In my opinion, the Apiru are one of those things that like the Apiru seem to make alot of sense, but yet they don't fit all the evidence exactly.
I meant to say:
In my opinion, the Apiru are one of those things that like the Yuya/Yusef/Jacob example seem to make alot of sense, but yet they don't fit all the evidence exactly.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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posted
I think you mean joseph. He was vice-roy of Egypt in Pharoah's stead.
quote:Originally posted by Kalonji: Every now and then a new interesting piece of evidence comes forward that can explain history we know from ancient myth and other ancient sources like the bible.
For example, we prolly all know about Yuya, and that some people think he is the historical Jacob. The arguments for speculating he was foreign are not unreasonable, as he was taller than the average egyptian, he had a large number of name spellings that were unusual and he was an advisor of the Pharao, just like Jacob. Also, several have said that the ''Ya'' in ''Yuya'' resembles the word ''sef'' in hieroglifs giving people reason to think he was Yusef, the Arabian version of Jacob.
In my opinion, the Apiru are one of those things that like the Apiru seem to make alot of sense, but yet they don't fit all the evidence exactly.
quote: Originally posted by Muhommed Abed: I think you mean joseph. He was vice-roy of Egypt in Pharoah's stead.
Yes, thnx for correcting.
quote: From the Amarna letters, clearly those being threatened by the Hebrews, tried to ally themselves with the Egyptians for protection. This did not seem to help. ---------------------------- A Letter from Abdu-Heba of Jerusalem May the king direct his attention to the archers, and may the king, my Lord, send troops of archers, the king has no more lands. The Hapiru sack the territories of the king. If there are archers (here) this year, all the territories of the king will remain (intact); but if there are no archers, the territories of the king, my Lord, will be lost! To the king, my Lord thus writes Abdu-Heba, your servant. He conveys eloquent words to the king, my Lord. All the territories of the king, my Lord, are lost.
If I recall, this letter was not from foreigners or allies of Egypt. This was a letter of Ancient Egyptians themselves, stationed in Palestine territory, who were asking Akhnathon for reinforcements.
quote: Originally posed by Kalonji: In my opinion, the Apiru are one of those things that like the Apiru seem to make alot of sense, but yet they don't fit all the evidence exactly.
I meant to say:
In my opinion, the Apiru are one of those things that like the Yuya/Yusef/Jacob example seem to make alot of sense, but yet they don't fit all the evidence exactly.
There have been many claims on the identity of "Joseph"
Joseph and Imhotep
Joseph
Imhotep
Second in command under Pharoah
Second in command under Pharoah Djoser
Lived to be 110 years of age
Lived to be 110 years of age
Great architect and builder
Great architect and builder
Stored up corn during 7 yrs of plenty
Stored up corn during 7 yrs of plenty
Saw seven years of famine - fed people
Saw seven years of famine - fed people
Interpreter of dreams
Interpreter of dreams
Built pyramids & palaces
Built the Step Pyramid & palaces
Zaphnath-paaneah- Over physicians
Was a physician
Instituted a income tax of one fifth
Instituted a income tax of one fifth
Married into the Priesthood of On
Married into the Priesthood of On
Knowledge of astrology
Knowledge of astrology
Coat of many breadths/colors (pas) =wide tunic)
--------------
Became an educated man
A poet and educated medical writer
Overseer of public works
Overseer of public works
Legendary history
Legendary history
Name means to add, increase, to join or gather together
The of course you have the Fringe exreemists who claim Moses was Akenaten and Joseph was created and the Hebrews were albino Egyptians..
Posts: 8805 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote: Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun: There have been many claims on the identity of "Joseph"
I did not know of those specific identifications, but they reek of, and are very similar to other identifications, where they talk about the the titles, life events and other things Jesus had in common with Osiris, Odin and other mythical gods
A lot of this talk has been debunked by historian Richard Carrier among others,
\/
quote: "The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors: Or Christianity Before Christ is unreliable, but no comprehensive critique exists. Most scholars immediately recognize many of his findings as unsupported and dismiss Graves as useless. After all, a scholar who rarely cites a source isn't useful to have as a reference even if he is right....In general, even when the evidence is real, it often only appears many years after Christianity began, and thus might be evidence of diffusion in the other direction." (Richard Carrier, Kersey Graves and the World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors)
But for some reason people still seem to be attracted to it
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Oy yoy yoy!!!
Not this **** again.
I'm too tired too even pull up all the past threads every six months or so when you resurrect this ****.
Nothing's changed. 'Tweren't so then. 'Tain't so now.
Guess what? 'Twon't be so next time you dig it up neither!
Don't you mean Oy Vey! LOL What's funny is that I remember you on more than one occasion explaining to Osirion why the Hapiru were not the same as Hebrews.
Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by osirion: The fact that Habiru has a meaning that is very similar to the meaning of Hebrew is also something we should not ignore.
I don't see any connection in the names 'apirw `ibri when examining the original languages. They only begin to sound alike when rendered in translation. The English word Hebrew is derived from a word pronounced ngeeb*ree in its original tongue.
Apeeroo and ngeeb*ree sound nothing alike to me.
Habiru is an ancient designation for a low class of people It is not a specific ethnicity. Alternate spellings of the term are 'Apiru and Khapiru.
The use of Habiru pre-dates the existence of the Israelites and appears in text ranging from Mari to Anatolia to Egypt. Out of the vast region this encompasses, no one has yet explained how the term could be narrowed down to only apply to one small group of transhumant pastoralists in Canaan and not anybody else.
If the Egyptian term 'apiru is synonymous with `ibriym then a record of Rameses II who fed 'apiru masons on his building projects supports the Israelite record of Hebrews toiling as brick masons in the construction at the cities of Pithom and Raamses.
The Israelites claim an epononymous ancestor `Eber and their writings show a Canaanite referring to their more immediate ancestor Abraham one time as an `ibri. The root -- `br -- has meanings of "the other side, yonder, yonderer."
It doesn't matter whether there ever was a person named `Eber or if there ever was a person Abraham. All peoples have stories of a founding ancestor from whom they take their tribal name, ethnic appellation, or national designation.
The Habiru were bands of disconnected people of various ethicities who made no claim to having a ethnonymous ancestor. Nor did the AE's invent the title Habiru meaning "those who make dust," as first noted in Mesopotamian and Levantine writings
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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