posted                         

quote:

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Originally posted by Mazigh:
Blackcentrism is not well defined (my opinion), some think it is legitimate ideology to make the history correct as answer on the already death Eurocentrism (altough some exceptional nazi-remnannts exist), but blackcentrism (Afro-blackcentrism) may be divided in many categories. Some (if not all of them) are:

- Re-establishing of the black civilization as it is in the world's heritage.

- Deforming or falsifying or making from exceptions/speculations facts to proove erroneuse conclusions.

- Anti-white (like anti-black) points of views in order to attack the whites.


Instead of speculating the black origin of some civilizations, it is worth focussing on the Afro-black civilization itself. The black civilization is worth to study and giving place.

In stead of claiming to some high civilizations were racially black to deny the claimed "black inferiority", it would be enough to study the races themselves to see whether any race was really inferieur or it was just the environments who gave birth to some civilization while others not.

Cave yields 'earliest jewellery'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/3629559.stm

Afro-black wall


The black mummy:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,865145,00.html

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Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

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The name MZGH was undoubtedly employed
as a generic term by the ancestors of
the modern Imushagh and their various
branches, and it is they who must be
considered as the modern representatives
of the old Hamitic stock which was
invaded by the brachycephals and
xanthocroids, and which in some cases has
been modified to take on a negroid form.

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Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by alTakruri:

I find the Arabized Muslim "Berbers" as more
natural allies than those North Africentrics
and I'm talking from pure lifelong experience.

There is a clear cut identity split between
* Arab(ized)
* Berber
* aMazigh
each of the three has a different image of self.

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Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged | 

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quote:

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Many researchers falsely states that the Berber speakers were Libyans. This is false, as proven by Diop (1977). Diop (1977) illustrates that the Berber genealogies place their origin in Saudi Arabia, and point to a very recent settlement(2000 years ago) in the Central Sahara. Diop (1977) believes that the Berbers are the result of the early mixture of Africans and Germanic speaking Vandals. (Diop 1986) This would explain the evident close relationship between the Berber and German languages.

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quote:

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Most of the foreign peoples who overran and conquered the locals of Egypt were white. The ancient Libyans, a blondish people, who once dominated North Africa from Morocco to modern Libya, conquered Egypt in prehistoric times. Indeed, some authorities believe the pharaohs were actually of the Libyan race, not the Egyptian. The Libyans were also the ancestors of the modern Berbers. Although today’s Berbers have been heavily Negrified in most regions, red hair is still common among the Berbers of the Rif.

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Posts: 883 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

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From the January 2004 National Geographic:

Berbers live throughout North Africa, but nowhere has denial of their identity been more systematic than in Morocco, ethnically the most Berber of the regions countries.

Although 60 percent of the its population claim Berber descent and nearly 40 percent speak 1 of 3 Berber languages, Morocco's constitution declares the country part of "Arab" North Africa, and makes no mention of the Berber.

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Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

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The Issue

Definitions

The term "Amazigh" used in this study is the preferred term for the Berber people of North Africa. The still widely used ethnolinguistic word "Berber" is disliked because of its pejorative and demeaning character--it implies that the person so called is "barbarian" in every sense of the word. "Berber" derives from the Greek word "barbaroi," denoting one who did not speak Greek but babbled unintelligibly and was thus a barbarian. The Romans and Byzantines continued this use of the term. During and after the Arab invasions of the seventh century, the Arabs followed the Greco-Roman practice and referred to the indigenous peoples they encountered as "barbar." The French and English speakers adopted "Berber" and "Berber" coined the word "Barbary," implying that the inhabitants were indeed barbarians.

On the Internet and elsewhere, Amazigh "nationalists" are lobbying for the use of the term "Amazigh," which they use to describe themselves in their own languages. "Amazigh" signifies "free" or "noble" person; the plural is Imazighen.

from AmazighWorld.org put up by an acquaintance
involved in the World Algeria Action Coalition

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Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Mazigh:
Sir Altakruri,

I'm Berber, and i speak the Berber language. I (yes me) am Amazigh. Because I never call myself Amazigh in the Berber language (Tamazigh). My name "Mazigh" doesn't mean I'm not Berber. I simply used the original name.

If it is so coomplicated, i explain it:
You call me "Berber" in English, Berbère in French Amazigh in Berber language.

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Its funny to see you get owned and not even know when it happens.

Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

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quote:

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Originally posted by alTakruri:
No homework required on this.

As explained, Amazigh is not Berber.

Amazigh is free and noble.

Berber is bar bar bar like one can't speak correctly.

Try using lexicons and dictionaries or ask an activist,
unless you're afraid.

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Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

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quote:

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Originally posted by Mazigh:
I hope the others are wise enough to the google search if you refuse it.

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Posts: 2025 | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Mazigh:
Don't call me Amazigh Don't respect me at all! I don't need it. Just be a human!!!

You have to acknowledge that you didn't do your homework, since you didn't know that Amazigh is the same as Berber. Now you say what ever..

I'm not a Berber activist, I'm interested in the Berber/Amazigh history...

Try better logic, and do some google search before you give conclusions.

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Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by homeylu:
The problem is, many of those Black North Africans are Arabized as well. It's not like they are fighting to identify with other Black Africans. It's sort of like the case with the Black Arab Sudanese groups, who oppress the non-Arab groups.

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Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

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It does not say Christians only, it speaks about all people. Stop attacking the Abrahamic faiths as a reason for African disunity.

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Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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While most agree that many nations have witnessed conflicts over national identity at some point in their history, they point to the peaceful coexistence that has been the norm between Arabs and the Amazigh over the past 12 centuries. The question then is why Amazigh nationalism has only now begun to assert itself. Arab nationalists in Morocco see European involvement in this cultural conflict, saying that its roots can be traced back to the "Berber Decree" enforced by the French colonial administration in 1930.

"The French pinned their hopes on the Amazigh tribes, thinking that they would back their colonialist policies," says Alal Al-Azhar, an Istiqlal Party leader. "But they failed, because they were rejected by both Arabs and Berbers."

"This was the first seed planted in the conflict," he says, commenting that the "Berber Decree" gave the Amazigh the right to practice their Berber tribal norms and traditions instead of the Islamic Shari'a.

For his part, Mukhlis Moha of the Amazigh National Youth Association, says that the establishment of an Amazigh Academy in Paris has had a major impact on reviving Amazigh culture. But "we shouldn't forget that the main reason for the development of the Amazigh cultural movement in Morocco is the parallel emergence of the Amazigh cultural movement in Algeria," he adds.

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quote:

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Morocco remained ruled by the Sherifian sultanate, except for northern areas under Spanish control, until the 1912 Treaty of Fez made most of Morocco a French protectorate, leaving the Sherifian monarchy but establishing a French military presence and installing a French commissioner-general. In the 1930s the French created separate laws for Arabs and Berbers, which sparked Arab nationalism. The "Berber Dahir", promulgated in 1930 by the French, separated the Berber legal system from that of the Arabs, letting them follow their established laws, without being under the authority of the Moroccan sultan. The French believed the Berbers to be closer to Europeans than the Arabs, and saw them as a possible ally against the Arabs, to be drawn into French culture. The French encouraged Berber culture, and used Berber recruits in the French army, causing Berbers to adopt Arabic language and culture and migrate to farms and cities. Berbers also played an important role in the Moroccan war of independence.

Soon after the independence in the middle of the 20th century, all the Maghreb countries to varying degrees pursued a policy of Arabization, aimed primarily at displacing French from its colonial position as the dominant language of education and literacy, but under these policies the use of Berber languages was suppressed or even banned. The countries of North Africa established Arabic as their official language, replacing French (except in Libya), although the shift from French to Arabic for official purposes continues even to this day. As a result, most Berbers had to study and know Arabic, and had no opportunities until the 21st century to use their mother tongue at school or university. This may have accelerated the existing process of Arabization of Berbers, especially in already bilingual areas, such as among the Chaouis.

After Morocco's independence in 1956, the Arab-Islamic sentiment, which was sparked by the French policy of dividing the populace on socioethnic lines, lead to increased emphasis on Arabization.[38]

Berberism had its roots before the independence of these countries, but was limited to some Berber elite. It only began to gain success when North African states replaced the colonial language with Arabic and identified exclusively as Arab nations, downplaying or ignoring the existence and the cultural specificity of Berbers. Berbers in Morocco were also disadvantaged after the independence of 1956.[39] They were well-represented in the police force and army, but did not have a voice in the government, and their French patrons had lost power.[4] However, its distribution remains highly uneven. In response to its demands, Morocco and Algeria have both modified their policies, with Algeria redefining itself constitutionally as an "Arab, Berber, Muslim nation". Now, Berber is a "national" language in Algeria and is taught in some Berber speaking areas as a non-compulsory language. In Morocco, Berber has no official status, but is now taught as a compulsory language regardless of the area or the ethnicity. Additionally, on October 17, 2001 King Mohammed VI sealed the decree (Dahir 1–01–299) creating and organizing the Royal Institute of Amazigh Culture (IRCAM).

---

quote:

---

Italian soccer star Marco Materazzi today accepted substantial undisclosed damages over Daily Mail articles which said that he has used vile racist abuse to French captain Zinedine Zidane.

Materazzi, who currently plays for Inter Milan, was not at London's High Court for the settlement of his libel case against Associated Newspapers.

His counsel, Jane Phillips, told Mr Justice Eady that, in July 2006, in its coverage of the World Cup Final, the newspaper published a series of items accompanied by photos, including one of Materazzi being head-butted by Zidane, captioned "Revealed: the insult that made Zidane see red".

She added that the articles stated quite wrongly that Materazzi, who scored one of the crucial penalties which secured an Italian victory, had used vile racist abuse during the match and called Zidane "the son of a terrorist whore".

---

quote:

---

The French interior minister Brice Hortefeux, one of Nicolas Sarkozy's closest friends, is at the centre of a race row after he was accused of making apparently insulting jokes about France's large North African community.

In a video on Le Monde's website, Hortefeux is seen bantering with young members of Sarkozy's ruling centre-right UMP party outside a summer conference meeting last weekend. He is posing for a picture with activists including a young man referred to as Amin. A person in the crowd says of Amin: "He eats pork, he drinks beer" and Hortefeux is seen joking: "So he doesn't at all correspond to the prototype." A woman in the crowd shouts: "He's our little Arab". Hortefeux says: "There's always one. When there's one, that's OK. It's when there are a lot of them, that there are problems."

Anti-racism groups, Socialist and Green opposition politicians immediately accused Hortefeux of racist insults and called for his resignation.

---

Posts: 8896 | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug M:

quote:

---

While most agree that many nations have witnessed conflicts over national identity at some point in their history, they point to the peaceful coexistence that has been the norm between Arabs and the Amazigh over the past 12 centuries. The question then is why Amazigh nationalism has only now begun to assert itself. Arab nationalists in Morocco see European involvement in this cultural conflict, saying that its roots can be traced back to the "Berber Decree" enforced by the French colonial administration in 1930.

"The French pinned their hopes on the Amazigh tribes, thinking that they would back their colonialist policies," says Alal Al-Azhar, an Istiqlal Party leader. "But they failed, because they were rejected by both Arabs and Berbers."

"This was the first seed planted in the conflict," he says, commenting that the "Berber Decree" gave the Amazigh the right to practice their Berber tribal norms and traditions instead of the Islamic Shari'a.

For his part, Mukhlis Moha of the Amazigh National Youth Association, says that the establishment of an Amazigh Academy in Paris has had a major impact on reviving Amazigh culture. But "we shouldn't forget that the main reason for the development of the Amazigh cultural movement in Morocco is the parallel emergence of the Amazigh cultural movement in Algeria," he adds.

---

From: http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/1999/454/re7.htm

quote:

---

Morocco remained ruled by the Sherifian sultanate, except for northern areas under Spanish control, until the 1912 Treaty of Fez made most of Morocco a French protectorate, leaving the Sherifian monarchy but establishing a French military presence and installing a French commissioner-general. In the 1930s the French created separate laws for Arabs and Berbers, which sparked Arab nationalism. The "Berber Dahir", promulgated in 1930 by the French, separated the Berber legal system from that of the Arabs, letting them follow their established laws, without being under the authority of the Moroccan sultan. The French believed the Berbers to be closer to Europeans than the Arabs, and saw them as a possible ally against the Arabs, to be drawn into French culture. The French encouraged Berber culture, and used Berber recruits in the French army, causing Berbers to adopt Arabic language and culture and migrate to farms and cities. Berbers also played an important role in the Moroccan war of independence.

Soon after the independence in the middle of the 20th century, all the Maghreb countries to varying degrees pursued a policy of Arabization, aimed primarily at displacing French from its colonial position as the dominant language of education and literacy, but under these policies the use of Berber languages was suppressed or even banned. The countries of North Africa established Arabic as their official language, replacing French (except in Libya), although the shift from French to Arabic for official purposes continues even to this day. As a result, most Berbers had to study and know Arabic, and had no opportunities until the 21st century to use their mother tongue at school or university. This may have accelerated the existing process of Arabization of Berbers, especially in already bilingual areas, such as among the Chaouis.

After Morocco's independence in 1956, the Arab-Islamic sentiment, which was sparked by the French policy of dividing the populace on socioethnic lines, lead to increased emphasis on Arabization.[38]

Berberism had its roots before the independence of these countries, but was limited to some Berber elite. It only began to gain success when North African states replaced the colonial language with Arabic and identified exclusively as Arab nations, downplaying or ignoring the existence and the cultural specificity of Berbers. Berbers in Morocco were also disadvantaged after the independence of 1956.[39] They were well-represented in the police force and army, but did not have a voice in the government, and their French patrons had lost power.[4] However, its distribution remains highly uneven. In response to its demands, Morocco and Algeria have both modified their policies, with Algeria redefining itself constitutionally as an "Arab, Berber, Muslim nation". Now, Berber is a "national" language in Algeria and is taught in some Berber speaking areas as a non-compulsory language. In Morocco, Berber has no official status, but is now taught as a compulsory language regardless of the area or the ethnicity. Additionally, on October 17, 2001 King Mohammed VI sealed the decree (Dahir 1–01–299) creating and organizing the Royal Institute of Amazigh Culture (IRCAM).

---

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Morocco_Tamazight

quote:

---

Italian soccer star Marco Materazzi today accepted substantial undisclosed damages over Daily Mail articles which said that he has used vile racist abuse to French captain Zinedine Zidane.

Materazzi, who currently plays for Inter Milan, was not at London's High Court for the settlement of his libel case against Associated Newspapers.

His counsel, Jane Phillips, told Mr Justice Eady that, in July 2006, in its coverage of the World Cup Final, the newspaper published a series of items accompanied by photos, including one of Materazzi being head-butted by Zidane, captioned "Revealed: the insult that made Zidane see red".

She added that the articles stated quite wrongly that Materazzi, who scored one of the crucial penalties which secured an Italian victory, had used vile racist abuse during the match and called Zidane "the son of a terrorist whore".

---

From: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/press/materazzi-accepts-damages-over-zidane-racism-claims-988187.html

quote:

---

The French interior minister Brice Hortefeux, one of Nicolas Sarkozy's closest friends, is at the centre of a race row after he was accused of making apparently insulting jokes about France's large North African community.

In a video on Le Monde's website, Hortefeux is seen bantering with young members of Sarkozy's ruling centre-right UMP party outside a summer conference meeting last weekend. He is posing for a picture with activists including a young man referred to as Amin. A person in the crowd says of Amin: "He eats pork, he drinks beer" and Hortefeux is seen joking: "So he doesn't at all correspond to the prototype." A woman in the crowd shouts: "He's our little Arab". Hortefeux says: "There's always one. When there's one, that's OK. It's when there are a lot of them, that there are problems."

Anti-racism groups, Socialist and Green opposition politicians immediately accused Hortefeux of racist insults and called for his resignation.

---

" target="_blank">http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/sep/10/french-minister-caught-race-row[/QUOTE]


.

This thread is SUPPOSED to be about Blacks, Africans, and Berbers. But yet, look at who is chosen to represent Berbers and Africans:

One of two White guys, who look so similar, that if someone said that they were biological Brothers with the same Mother and Father, it would not be hard to believe.

.


Marco Materazzi




Zinedine Zidane




THIS IS A BERBER:

What's the connection?

NONE!

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Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

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Originally posted by Mazigh:
@Mike111,
The quotes of Doug M were enough unuseful, but you quote it againt and bombarded it with your eternal images... Such pics and quotes are not usuful. Quote only the sensful statement, and limite the images to the minimum.

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Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

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Originally posted by alTakruri:
That's precisely your problem. You're so far removed
from the struggle that you depend on random googling
for your definition of self.

quote:

---

The Issue

Definitions

The term "Amazigh" used in this study is the preferred term for the Berber people of North Africa. The still widely used ethnolinguistic word "Berber" is disliked because of its pejorative and demeaning character--it implies that the person so called is "barbarian" in every sense of the word. "Berber" derives from the Greek word "barbaroi," denoting one who did not speak Greek but babbled unintelligibly and was thus a barbarian.

. . . .
... Amazigh "nationalists" are lobbying for the use of the term "Amazigh," which they use to describe themselves in their own languages. "Amazigh" signifies "free" or "noble" person; the plural is Imazighen.

from AmazighWorld.org put up by an acquaintance
involved in the World Algeria Action Coalition

---

It's a shame you know so very little about your own
yet you think to come here and set the blacks straight.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Mazigh:
The proble of the Afrocentrics is that they're closed to the non-afrocentric facts.

This is wat Altakruri said:
"There is a clear cut identity split between
* Arab(ized)
* Berber
* aMazigh"

He thought that Berber is others than Amazigh. I said that it is simpy not the case. Amazigh = Berber.

By the way, i don't completely agree with the traditional etymology.

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Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

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Originally posted by Mike111:
alTakruri, Mazigh - Just curious; are indigenous Africans a part of this liberation struggle, and who are you trying to liberate yourselves from - the fake Arabs?

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Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged |