posted
He runs this board and determines what is discussed.
A whiteman can always control and dictate to blacks what it is that they should focus on and blacks always need a whiteman's approval or acceptance for what they put forth which is why they keep trying to convince this whiteman with an African name even after they've proven him wrong so many times but keeps repeating himself and the blacks go follow right up behind him again and again.
White superiority and blacks' need of white approval still strong in 2011!
In the meantime the blacks neglect matters of their own true concern producing no self-directed analysis, critique, or hypotheses on Egyptology, African Studies, genetics, linguistics, history or anything else, just being led along like a bull with a ring in its nose. "Bulls are powerful and sometimes unpredictable animals which, if uncontrolled, can kill or severely injure their handlers. The nose ring assists the handler to control a dangerous animal with minimal risk of injury or disruption by exerting stress on one of the most sensitive parts of the animal,"Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: He runs this board and determines what is discussed.
A whiteman can always control and dictate to blacks what it is that they should focus on and blacks always need a whiteman's approval or acceptance for what they put forth which is why they keep trying to convince this whiteman with an African name even after they've proven him wrong so many times but keeps repeating himself and the blacks go follow right up behind him again and again.
White superiority and blacks' need of white approval still strong in 2011!
In the meantime the blacks neglect matters of their own true concern producing no self-directed analysis, critique, or hypotheses on Egyptology, African Studies, genetics, linguistics, history or anything else, just being led along like a bull with a ring in its nose. "Bulls are powerful and sometimes unpredictable animals which, if uncontrolled, can kill or severely injure their handlers. The nose ring assists the handler to control a dangerous animal with minimal risk of injury or disruption by exerting stress on one of the most sensitive parts of the animal,"
rasseediatboy101 apparently, like so many of his 'white' bredrin, has a fixation on Black People and can't stay away from us...he should be focusing on the history of his own people- Europe- and leave us to focus on our own...but he can't do that because he is compelled to stay amongst us like fly pitch on sh*t and gwan like a bunch of rass fools in here... Posts: 3446 | From: U.S. by way of JA by way of Africa | Registered: Jan 2010
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My own suggestion was to take debates like those to publishing outlets like SbribD and simply reference them while eliciting formal response. At least this way there would be less repetitive bickering and more engagement with systematic research, including proper footnotes, citations, and presentation. The laziness of their efforts would thus be exposed since they won't be able to systematically respond to such a challenge, hence allowing members to move on to bigger and better things like sharing ideas, news and research into topics other than the trollish rantings of some random ideologue.
I worry how many members would actually be interested in buckling down and doing something like this though. Posting essays such as Brandon's on topics ranging from indigenous medicine (a recent proposal by ausar) to demic diffusion (just got finished writing a decent sized paper on the latter topic). Why not? And what ever happened to the ES Journal?
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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^^^^ I agree, I think I should publish a paper on why I think the Phenotype of Upper Egypt/Northern Sudan represents Egypt. Also do a paper on the Origins of Egypt.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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I was wondering where I should post this tidbit of info I acquired. Thanks for making this thread Takruri.
Now people today was a "Good" day for me. Now if anyone has been on this forum long enough, they will know I have great respect for Caribbean culture. Today with my Church, We went to a Gospel Cafe where we were learning from a Jew who had some views about Jesus and he was from Isreal. Now what made my day was the blending of cultures because this Gospel cafe was not just an ordinary Gospel cafe...But was a Caribbean(Jamaican) and El Salvadore mixed Cafe.
This is Beautiful because we saw the coming together of 2 different Ethnic Groups and a blend of Christianity to boot. You could see a blend of Jamaican and Brazillian, Cuban, Puerto Rican cultures working together for the greater good...But this was Jamaican and El Salvadoran. Now if people from these groups can unite...Whats stoping others from following suit? It simply was a Beautiful experience and it showed no matter the color of skin, We are ALL Brothers and Sisters. We must stop with the stuff about superiority and talk about what unites the people together. I hope I see more blendings going on in this corrupt world so the people know they have an escape from the negative stereotypes and hatred. It's a wonderful thing to see this and made the Christian experience that much more better.
We must show Love to eachother and try to mix our different cultures together and see what comes out of it. Africans, Asians, Europeans, Latinos etc have greatness in them...We must see this Greatness to transform lives and grow righteousnsess. The world is getting smaller and you hope people will be better off promoting unity and love and not divide and conquer.
To show people just how much impact is happening in this messed up world, lets look at Rastas. Rastas orignate in Jamrock(Jamaica), yet if you did not know, there is Rastas in far away places like Chile and all over Latin America. These people look past color to come together to make a better way of living for there people
Go to this website about Latin Rastas in Chile, Colombia etc...Please watch the videos:
Now these chile rastas are no joke...They go HARD with theres and they show that love of the people is whats important. We can learn from them how to better respect and support eachother. They let Love guide them and I hope others here will also let love guide them and don't take the trolls too serious.
This is all I have to say for a very Good day that taught me that people from diverse places like Jamaica and El Salvadore can come to make beautiful culture and love.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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Or Jeri's thread which is lite and kinda fun about depiction of foreigners in non western art.. but the way I look at it battling race based loons is the life blood of this forum and gottdamn it works folks get excited beating down every nut that stalks this board even my self like to join in at times but it also gets old,,well for me anyways..sometimes I try to shift the conversation into something like culture or history but sure nuff someone will start measuring nose lips and eyebrows.. and END OF THAT! .
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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Far from running the board I seem to be a voice in the wilderness. However my opinion is more in tune with the scholarly consensus and self-evident fact that ancient Egypt was distinctly Egyptian (north African), as modern Egypt remains, rather than sub-saharan black-African as 'afrocentrists' would have it be.
quote: Bob Berier (Egyptologist and mummification expert) 'You can't say: "yes Egyptians were black", no you can't say that'.
Zahi Hawass (Egyptologist): 'Tutankhamun was not black, and the portrayal of ancient Egyptian civilisation as black has no element of truth to it... Egyptians are not Arabs and are not Africans despite the fact that Egypt is in Africa'.
S.O.Y. Keita (black American anthropologist): 'In terms of physical diversity it can be imagined that the modern diversity to be found in Egypt.... in terms of craniofacial features, skin colour and what have you, would likely have been very similar to that found in the past'
Clarence Walker (black American historian and scholar): 'Afrocentrism is a mythology that is racist, reactionary, and essentially therapeutic... It suggests that nothing important has happened in black history since the time of the pharaohs and thus trivializes the history of black Americans. Afrocentrism places an emphasis on Egypt that is, to put it bluntly, absurd.'
Clearly there were and are Egyptians at either end of the spectrum who might pass for white or black, in other societies, but it is modern foreigners who are projecting fixations on these things back onto another culture which was largely indifferent to race, and to which they have no connection. If you want to make ancient history nothing but a pawn in racialist politics, why don't you focus on a culture that was unambiguously black African?
I am not interested in present-day race politics or ethnic supremacism, and far be it from me to take credit for the achievements of other people who happen to have similar skin colour! What I object to is the falsification of history, and the usurpation of the legacy of real Egyptians, who are often abused by black foreigners who have become deranged due to all the afrocentric kool-aid they've swallowed.
The sad thing is that most of the posters here seem to lack any interest in other aspects of Egyptian history, and fixate only on the race controversy. That doesn't seem to be what these forums were set up for, but it what they have been reduced to. The other sections suffer from near complete neglect.
Posts: 870 | From: uk | Registered: Apr 2011
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"Materials and methods In 1997, the German Institute for Archaeology headed an excavation of the tombs of the nobles in Thebes-West, Upper Egypt. At this time, three types of tissues were sampled from different mummies: meniscus (fibrocartilage), skin, and placenta. Archaeological findings suggest that the mummies dated from the New Kingdom (approximately 1550_/1080 BC)...... The basal epithelial cells were packed with melanin as expected for specimens of negroid origin."
Trotter and Gleser's (Trotter and Gleser: Am J Phys Anthropol 10 (1952) 469–514; Trotter and Gleser: Am J Phys Anthropol 16 (1958) 79–123) long bone formulae for US Blacks or derivations thereof (Robins and Shute: Hum Evol 1 (1986) 313–324) have been previously used to estimate the stature of ancient Egyptians. However, limb length to stature proportions differ between human populations; consequently, the most accurate mathematical stature estimates will be obtained when the population being examined is as similar as possible in proportions to the population used to create the equations. The purpose of this study was to create new stature regression formulae based on direct reconstructions of stature in ancient Egyptians and assess their accuracy in comparison to other stature estimation methods. We also compare Egyptian body proportions to those of modern American Blacks and Whites. Living stature estimates were derived using a revised Fully anatomical method (Raxter et al.: Am J Phys Anthropol 130 (2006) 374–384). Long bone stature regression equations were then derived for each sex. Our results confirm that, although ancient Egyptians are closer in body proportion to modern American Blacks than they are to American Whites, proportions in Blacks and Egyptians are not identical. The newly generated Egyptian-based stature regression formulae have standard errors of estimate of 1.9–4.2 cm. All mean directional differences are less than 0.4% compared to anatomically estimated stature, while results using previous formulae are more variable, with mean directional biases varying between 0.2% and 1.1%, tibial and radial estimates being the most biased. There is no evidence for significant variation in proportions among temporal or social groupings; thus, the new formulae may be broadly applicable to ancient Egyptian remains.
An examination of Nubian and Egyptian biological distances: Support for biological diffusion or in situ development?
K. Goddea, b, Corresponding Author Contact Information, E-mail The Corresponding Author
a Department of Anthropology, University of Tennessee, Knoxville, 250 South Stadium Hall, Knoxville, TN 37996, USA
b Department of Science, South College, 3904 Lonas Dr, Knoxville, TN 37909, USA
Abstract
Many authors have speculated on Nubian biological evolution. Because of the contact Nubians had with other peoples, migration and/or invasion (biological diffusion) were originally thought to be the biological mechanism for skeletal changes in Nubians. Later, a new hypothesis was put forth, the in situ hypothesis. The new hypothesis postulated that Nubians evolved in situ, without much genetic influence from foreign populations. This study examined 12 Egyptian and Nubian groups in an effort to explore the relationship between the two populations and to test the in situ hypothesis. Data from nine cranial nonmetric traits were assessed for an estimate of biological distance, using Mahalanobis D2 with a tetrachoric matrix. The distance scores were then input into principal coordinates analysis (PCO) to depict the relationships between the two populations. PCO detected 60% of the variation in the first two principal coordinates. A plot of the distance scores revealed only one cluster; the Nubian and Egyptian groups clustered together. The grouping of the Nubians and Egyptians indicates there may have been some sort of gene flow between these groups of Nubians and Egyptians. However, common adaptation to similar environments may also be responsible for this pattern. Although the predominant results in this study appear to support the biological diffusion hypothesis, the in situ hypothesis was not completely negated.
Logically since they were and are fundamentally Africans.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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^ All of this can be refuted. Melanin levels have nothing to do with racial affinity. A dark skinned southern Egyptian or Indian or Australasian will have more melanin in their skin than a light-skinned negroid person from Nigeria. A pregnant woman will have more melanin in her nipples than one who is not.
By the way, did I see the word 'negroid' in a scientific report cited by an advocate of 'black Egypt'? It must be legitimate then!
Egypt was originally tropical, and once giraffes roamed over what is now the Sahara, as prehistoric rock art from libya testifies. The pharaohs hunted lions, hippos and ostriches in their own land, only a few thousand years ago. Climate change accounts for the limb proportions of Egyptians.
According to pooled samples, ancient lower Nubians group with Mediterranean caucasoids, not with negroes and Egyptians have not changed since dynastic times. The Nubian affinity does not therefore necessarily mean that the Egyptians were black Africans in the sense that Afrocentrists might wish. Posts: 870 | From: uk | Registered: Apr 2011
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You did not refute anything, because the microlevels of the melanin dosage are specific to African groups. This is why they used the controversial term Negroid. so dimwits such as yourself could have a better understanding of the "racial type! Since the predecessors came from the South. Sahelians/ Saharans.
It's not from outside populations, as you tend to keep thinking. Also the other studies put it even more in perspective.
Next.....
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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The position of the Nazlet Khater specimen among prehistoric and modern African and Levantine populations.
"The morphometric affinities of the 33,000 year old skeleton from Nazlet Khater, Upper Egypt are examined using multivariate statistical procedures.
The results indicate a strong association between some of the sub-Saharan Middle Stone Age (MSA) specimens, and the Nazlet Khater mandible.
Furthermore, the results suggest that variability between African populations during the Neolithic and Protohistoric periods was more pronounced than the range of variability observed among recent African and Levantine populations."
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From Nubia, the South (upper Egypt) the moved into the North (lower Egypt).
Nubia's Oldest House?
Some of the most important evidence of early man in Nubia was discovered recently by an expedition of the Royal Ontario Museum, Toronto, under the direction of Dr. Kryzstof Grzymski, on the east bank of the Nile, about 70 miles (116 km) south of Dongola, Sudan. During the early 1990's, this team discovered several sites containing hundreds of Paleolithic hand axes. At one site, however, the team identified an apparent stone tool workshop, where thousands of sandstone hand axes and flakes lay on the ground around a row of large stones set in a line, suggesting the remains of a shelter. This seems to be the earliest "habitation" site yet discovered in the Nile Valley and may be up to 70,000 years old.
What the Nubian environment was like throughout these distant times, we cannot know with certainty, but it must have changed many times. For many thousands of years it was probably far different than what it is today. Between about 50,000 to 25,000 years ago, the hand axe gradually disappeared and was replaced with numerous distinctive chipped stone industries that varied from region to region, suggesting the presence in Nubia of many different peoples or tribal groups dwelling in close proximity to each other. When we first encounter skeletal remains in Nubia, they are those of modern man: homo sapiens .
Nubia's Oldest Battle?
From about 25,000 to 8,000 years ago, the environment gradually evolved to its present state. From this phase several very early settlement sites have been identified at the Second Cataract, near the Egypt-Sudan border. These appear to have been used seasonally by people leading a semi-nomadic existence. The people hunted, fished, and ground wild grain. The first cemeteries also appear, suggesting that people may have been living at least partly sedentary lives. One cemetery site at Jebel Sahaba, near Wadi Halfa, Sudan, contained a number of bodies that had suffered violent deaths and were buried in a mass grave. This suggests that people, even 10,000 years ago, had begun to compete with each other for resources and were willing to kill each other to control them.
In Egypt, the earliest evidence of humans can be recognized only from tools found scattered over an ancient surface, sometimes with hearths nearby. In Wadi Kubbaniya, a dried-up streambed cutting through the Western Desert to the floodplain northwest of Aswan in Upper Egypt, some interesting sites of the kind described above have been recorded. A cluster of Late Paleolithic camps was located in two different topographic zones: on the tops of dunes and the floor of the wadi (streambed) where it enters the valley. Although no signs of houses were found, diverse and sophisticated stone implements for hunting, fishing, and collecting and processing plants were discovered around hearths. Most tools were bladelets made from a local stone called chert that is widely used in tool fabrication. The bones of wild cattle, hartebeest, many types of fish and birds, as well as the occasional hippopotamus have been identified in the occupation layers. Charred remains of plants that the inhabitants consumed, especially tubers, have also been found.
It appears from the zoological and botanical remains at the various sites in this wadi that the two environmental zones were exploited at different times. We know that the dune sites were occupied when the Nile River flooded the wadi because large numbers of fish and migratory bird bones were found at this location. When the water receded, people then moved down onto the silt left behind on the wadi floor and the floodplain, probably following large animals that looked for water there in the dry season. Paleolithic peoples lived at Wadi Kubbaniya for about 2,000 years, exploiting the different environments as the seasons changed. Other ancient camps have been discovered along the Nile from Sudan to the Mediterranean, yielding similar tools and food remains. These sites demonstrate that the early inhabitants of the Nile valley and its nearby deserts had learned how to exploit local environments, developing economic strategies that were maintained in later cultural traditions of pharaonic Egypt.
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Busharia reveals the precocious appearance of pottery on the African continent around the 9th millennium B.C.
The site of Busharia is located near the desert, at the edge of the alluvial plain and near an old Nile channel. It reveals the remains of human occupation at the onset of the Holocene. The settlement is rather eroded, only a few artefacts, ostrich egg fragments and extremely old ceramic sherds remain. These sherds date to circa 8200 B.C. The ceramic assemblage is homogenous, which suggests the existence of a single occupation phase. The decorations and the use of the return technique, common in the central Sahara around the 6th millennium B.C., are unique in this Nubian context for such an early period.
Remains discovered on site suggest the existence of a semi-sedentary population living from hunting, fishing, and the gathering of wild plants. A trial trench and a small-scale excavation were conducted on this Mesolithic site; however, it is impossible to obtain at present a better understanding of the context related to the first ceramics in the region. As this site is located near cultivated zones, it is thus threatened with short-term destruction.
Three scale models—of the Mesolithic hut of el-Barga (7500 B.C.), the proto-urban agglomeration of the Pre-Kerma (3000 B.C.) and the ancient city of Kerma (2500-1500 B.C.)—give a glimpse of the world of the living. They show the evolution of settlements for each of the key periods in Nubian history. Huts indicate the birth of a sedentary way of life, the agglomeration confirms the settling of populations on a territory and the capital of the Kingdom of Kerma marks the culmination of the complexification of Nubian architecture with its ever more monumental constructions. The three models were created in Switzerland by Hugo Lienhard and were installed in the museum in January 2009.
Wadi el-Arab reveals an almost continuous series of settlement remains spanning two millennia as well as the first Neolithic burials known in Africa.
This site is located today in a desert region. Discovered in 2005, it has been under excavation since 2006. This is an open-air site occupied on several occasions during a period between 8300 and 6600 B.C. Its inhabitants then lived in a rather wooded environment, living on fishing, hunting and gathering.
The site reveals numerous flint tools and flakes, grinding stone fragments, ceramic sherds, ostrich eggshell beads, shells and mollusc remains, fish vertebrae and faunal remains. Rare domesticated ox bones were discovered and dated to circa 7000 B.C. This discovery is important for the question regarding the origin of animal domestication in Africa because it reinforces the idea of a local domestication of African oxen from aurochs living in the Nile Valley.
During the 2006-2007 campaign, six burial pits were excavated in three different areas. Dated to between 7000 and 6600, these burials are the first known Neolithic burials on the African continent.
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Notice how the London Whore with an African Moniker just proved Al's point...
The Whore's methods..
Repeat the same (Debunked) Arguments..
Use the same Cluster map and claim Nubians as Caucasian..Ingnore any attempts at defend this position.
Call Nubians Negros and post an image of a Modern Aswani next to a Nubian being killed..
.....
the beat goes on.
As I said the Whore was sent to further degrade and disrupt E.S from the sad state it currently is. The Whore's Pimp has his own pseudo-Egyptsearch so what better way to knock out the competition.
Serious members of E.S should return E.S to some what of a decent forum...
Prehistoric humans roamed the world's largest desert for some 5,000 years, archaeologists have revealed.
The Eastern Sahara of Egypt, Sudan, Libya and Chad was home to nomadic people who followed rains that turned the desert into grassland.
When the landscape dried up about 7,000 years ago, there was a mass exodus to the Nile and other parts of Africa.
The close link between human settlement and climate has lessons for today, researchers report in Science.
"Even modern day conflicts such as Dafur are caused by environmental degradation as it has been in the past," Dr Stefan Kropelin of the University of Cologne, Germany, told the BBC News website.
"The basic struggle for food, water and pasture is still a big problem in the Sahara zone. This process started thousands of years ago and has a long tradition."
Jigsaw puzzle
The Eastern Sahara, which covers more than 2 million sq km, an area the size of Western Europe, is now almost uninhabited by people or animals, providing a unique window into the past.
Dr Kropelin and colleague Dr Rudolph Kuper pieced together the 10,000-year jigsaw of human migration and settlement; studying more than 100 archaeological sites over the course of 30 years.
In the largest study of its kind, they built up a detailed picture of human evolution in the world's largest desert. They found that far from the inhospitable climate of today, the area was once semi-humid.
Between about 14,000 and 13,000 years ago, the area was very dry. But a drastic switch in environmental conditions some 10,500 years ago brought rain and monsoon-like conditions.
Nomadic human settlers moved in from the south, taking up residence beside rivers and lakes. They were hunter-gatherers at first, living off plants and wild game.
Eventually they became more settled, domesticating cattle for the first time, and making intricate pottery.
Neolithic farmers
Humid conditions prevailed until about 6,000 years ago, when the Sahara abruptly dried out. There was then a gradual exodus of people to the Nile Valley and other parts of the African continent.
“ The domestication of cattle was invented in the Sahara in the humid phase and was then slowly pushed over the rest of Africa”
Dr. Stefan Kropelin of the University of Cologne
"The Nile Valley was almost devoid of settlement until about exactly the time that the Egyptian Sahara was so dry people could not live there anymore," Dr Kropelin told the BBC News website.
"People preferred to live on savannah land. Only when this wasn't possible they migrated towards southern Sudan and the Nile.
"They brought all their know-how to the rest of the continent - the domestication of cattle was invented in the Sahara in the humid phase and was then slowly pushed over the rest of Africa.
"This Neolithic way of life, which still is a way of life in a sense; preservation of food for the dry season and many other such cultural elements, was introduced to central and southern Africa from the Sahara."
'Motor of evolution'
Dr. Kuper said the distribution of people and languages, which is so politically important today, has its roots in the desiccation of the Sahara.
The switch in environmental conditions acted as a "motor of Africa's evolution," he said.
"It happened during these 5,000 years of the savannah that people changed from hunter-gathers to cattle keepers," he said.
"This important step in human history has been made for the first time in the African Sahara."
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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The nubian mesolithic: A consideration of the Wadi Halfa remains
Meredith F. Small*
Morphological variation of the skeletal remains of ancient Nubia has been traditionally explained as a product of multiple migrations into the Nile Valley . In contrast, various researchers have noted a continuity in craniofacial variation from Mesolithic through Neolithic times. This apparent continuity could be explained by in situ cultural evolution producing shifts in selective pressures which may act on teeth, the facial complex, and the cranial vault.
A series of 13 Mesolithic skulls from Wadi Halfa, Sudan, are compared to Nubian Neolithic remains by means of extended canonical analysis. Results support recent research which suggests consistent trends of facial reduction and cranial vault expansion from Mesolithic through Neolithic times.
See, from the South into the North.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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And lets make it clear, E.S is one of if not the best forums on the net to exchange ideas and discuss Africana as well as other history.
In my World History class, I was more knowledgable than the ave. student by stuff I read here. Even Mike's Turk Obsession turned out to be helpful. Im not against other ideas on Egypt, if anything Im more in the middle than most people here as I think A. Egypt is best seen by Upper egyptians and Northern Sudanese with South Sudan and Delta Egyptian types being a minority.
I think Simple Girl can produce some good arguments every blue moon. However we should put the Whore in the Argyle104 camp along with the Busted Muktaba Dirk. Like Dirk the Whore simple repeats debunked arguments, chasing the London whore around the Mulberry Bush..
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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The Wadi of the Horus Qa-a: A Tableau of Royal Ritual Power in the Theban Western Desert
John Coleman Darnell 1
The Theban Western Desert preserves several important tableaux of late Naqada II through Early Dynastic date. One of the longest and most artistically accomplished of these tableaux is located in a wadi northeast of Gebel Tjauti, on a branch of the ‘Alamat Tal Road (Figure 1). The strongly marked tracks, with associated ceramic material, lead to the head of the wadi, in the upper part of which, despite the lack of any clear path of ascent, are a number of dry stone structures, as well as the remains of “game traps.” Near the head of this wadi, apparently the haunt of hunters traveling the Alamat Tal Road, are several concentrations of rock inscriptions, providing extreme examples of the clustering of a particular genre of image in one area, and the dominance of one genre of representation at a discrete site. We have named the wadi after an inscription at Site No. 2—the serekh of the late First Dynasty ruler Horus Qa-a.
etc...Yale University, Yale Egyptological Institute in Egypt.
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BADARIANS WERE AFRICANS FROM THE SOUTH, NOT INDIANS OR... BLAH BLAH BLAH!!!!!!
Many of the samples that are similar to one another, between the two populations, are separated by great amounts of time (e.g. Kerma and Badari). These similarities over time make sense because, as Konigsberg (1990) asserted, as time elapses, related groups become more genetically similar. In order to explicate the meaning behind all of these findings, the results here must be tempered by the DNA evidence. Both mtDNA (Krings et al., 1999) and Y-Chromosome data (Hassan et al., 2008; Keita, 2005; Lucotte andMercier, 2003) indicate that migrations, usually bidirectional, occurred along the Nile. Thus, the osteological material used in this analysis also supports the DNA evidence.
Interpretation of the results framed by several of the groups’ histories helps to elucidate the subtle relationships depicted in the PCO scatter plot. The predynastic sample from Badari occupies a complex position in Egyptian history. The Badarians are Egypt’s oldest agriculturalists and produced some of the earliest known pottery (Hassan, 1986) that predated state formation in Egypt. Badarian crania, in comparison to dynastic groups, are slight and less robust than their later counterparts (Angel, 1972; Morant, 1935; Stoessiger, 1927). Stoessiger (1927) likened the gracile nature of the Badarians to the gracile nature of the people from Naqada, but she pointed out that the Badarians are more prognathic. On this basis, many have postulated that the Badarians are relatives to South African populations (Morant, 1935; Mukherjee et al., 1955; Irish and Konigsberg, 2007). The archaeological evidence points to this relationship as well. Hassan (1986, 1988) noted similarities between Badarian pottery and the Neolithic Khartoum type, indicating an archaeological affinity among Badarians and Africans from more southern regions. Furthermore, like the Badarians, Naqada has also been classified with other African groups, namely the Teita (Crichton, 1996; Keita, 1990), while the Gizeh sample clustered with the Maghreb and Sedment (Dynasty IX Egyptians)(Keita, 1990).
Nutter (1958) noted affinities between the Badarian and Naqada samples, a feature that Strouhal (1971) attributed to their skulls possessing ‘‘Negro’’ traits. Keita (1992), using craniometrics, discovered that the Badarian series is distinctly different from the later Egyptian series, a conclusion that is mostly confirmed here. In the current analysis, the Badari sample more closely clusters with the Naqada sample and the Kerma sample. However, it also groups with the later pooled sample from Dynasties XVIII–XXV. The unusual grouping of Badari, Naqada, Kerma, and the later Dynastic pooled sample may have been a product of the mixed nature of the pooled sample. The effects of pooled samples have been demonstrated in Nubians by obscuring relationships and creating a falsely close affinity between it and the samples it clusters with (Godde, 2009a). Moreover, affinities among the Badarian, Naqada, and Kerma samples have been revealed by other authors (Keita, 1990; Nutter, 1958) and it is no surprise that this relationship exists in the data here.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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NUBIA AND EGYPT- Nubians and Egyptians were so close in various eras that they were virtually indistinguishable
Because they are in fact the same people.
“The ancient Egyptians referred to a region, located south of the third cataract the Nile River, in which Nubians dwelt as Kush.. Within such context, this phrase is not a racial slur. Throughout the history of ancient Egypt there were numerous, well documented instances that celebrate Nubian-Egyptian marriages. A study of these documents, particularly those dated to both the Egyptian New Kingdom (after 1550 B.C.E.) and to Dynasty XXV and early Dynasty XXVI (about 720-640 BCE), reveals that neither spouse nor any of the children of such unions suffered discrimination at the hands of the ancient Egyptians. Indeed such marriages were never an obstacle to social, economic, or political status, provided the individuals concerned conformed to generally accepted Egyptian social standards. Furthermore, at times, certain Nubian practices, such as tattooing for women, and the unisex fashion of wearing earrings, were wholeheartedly embraced by the ancient Egyptians." (Bianchi, 2004: p. 4)
'It is an extremely difficult task to attempt to describe the Nubians during the course of Egypt's New Kingdom, because their presence appears to have virtually evaporated from the archaeological record.. The result has been described as a wholesale Nubian assimilation into Egyptian society. This assimilation was so complete that it masked all Nubian ethnic identities insofar as archaeological remains are concerned beneath the impenetrable veneer of Egypt's material; culture.. In the Kushite Period, when Nubians ruled as Pharaohs in their own right, the material culture of Dynasty XXV (about 750-655 B.C.E.) was decidedly Egyptian in character.. Nubia's entire landscape up to the region of the Third Cataract was dotted with temples indistinguishable in style and decoration from contemporary temples erected in Egypt. The same observation obtains for the smaller number of typically Egyptian tombs in which these elite Nubian princes were interred.(Bianchi, 2004, p. 99-100)
Robert Bianchi ( 2004). Daily Life of the Nubians. Greenwood Publishing Group
quote:
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
Jari, if you condemn me for seeming to suggest that the Aswani woman you posted looks more like one of ancient Egypt's enemies to the south, will you condemn a certain other party for continually making the same insinuation about other Egyptians who supposedly resemble the Semites? (That despite ample evidence a/ for prehistoric Eurasian influcence in Egypt and b/for continuity from Dynastic times.)
What part of 'not Arabs and not Africans' don't you get? Who says the Delta type were the minority? The most populous modern cities are in the north, and so were many ancient capitals which have been buried under fields and/or had their stones reused in other constructions. The Delta was always the part of Egypt with the heaviest population density- both urban and agricultural. The recent satellite mapping project has suggested that the population was many times greater than previously thougth, and that the Delta is full to bursting with lost settlements.
Posts: 870 | From: uk | Registered: Apr 2011
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Robert Bianchi ( 2004). Daily Life of the Nubians. Greenwood Publishing Group
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: See what I mean. Here we go again. Pseudo says something and bam it gets chased. Some just won't get it. Some get stuck into mark time march no progress.
Break out of reactionary mode. Don't be led along by the nose like a weasel chasing monkey. This weasel will never go pop.
I do get it, very well, but it needs to be repeated till it gets sick of it!
And the racist beast has responded a few time already. Which is good for psychoanalysis. It started with British, then it became some English man, next we had Balkans, the latest trend is India.
Yet non of them fit the profile and all have ben debunked with peer reviewed scholarship. It provides us info on his sick pathology.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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Show me where anyone has posted an image of a Modern Delta Egyptian next to an Image of an Asiatic being slayed.
As I said earlier numerous images of Nubians exist in more decent fashion yet you choose what you choose, now you want to back peddle and not only claim you suddenly care about the Modern Black population of Egypt but now the same people you called Negros who were nothing but a colony of Egypt are suddenly caucasian.
The Black population of Egypt and black Images of A. Egyptian Royalty are Mulattos, but the Copts and Delta Egyptians are pure and anyone who says the latter are mixed are evil racist Afrocentrics trying to steal A. Egypt.
I know what you were implying with that Image, so save your back peddaling non-sense for some one else. I know what your goal is Whore. Go back to your pimp's Pseudo Egyptsearch.
quote:Originally posted by Whore-Tep101: Jari, if you condemn me for seeming to suggest that the Aswani woman you posted looks more like one of ancient Egypt's enemies to the south,
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Or Jeri's thread which is lite and kinda fun about depiction of foreigners in non western art.. but the way I look at it battling race based loons is the life blood of this forum and gottdamn it works folks get excited beating down every nut that stalks this board even my self like to join in at times but it also gets old,,well for me anyways..sometimes I try to shift the conversation into something like culture or history but sure nuff someone will start measuring nose lips and eyebrows.. and END OF THAT! .
I know right... Posts: 3446 | From: U.S. by way of JA by way of Africa | Registered: Jan 2010
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^^^^ If you do, I believe Mr. Bianchi mentions the Egyptian Rock Cut temples AKA Speos originate from A Group Temple Styles, according to Myra's Site...I would love to Get the Source in context..if you have the book that is..
Ive tried to find more info on is but to no avail. I tracked it down and I believe there was a A-Group Speo that was later transformed into a Regular Temple.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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He said we don't know who they were and where they came from?
In his own words, that is!
Well, I have provided a BULK of evidence, showing the continuity! Going back many thousands of years, of these AFRICANS WHO CAME FROM THE SOUTH!
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: Who says the Delta type were the minority? The most populous modern cities are in the north, and so were many ancient capitals which have been buried under fields and/or had their stones reused in other constructions. The Delta was always the part of Egypt with the heaviest population density- both urban and agricultural. The recent satellite mapping project has suggested that the population was many times greater than previously thougth, and that the Delta is full to bursting with lost settlements. [/QB]
I believe the sea level has risen considerably since ancient times causing many sites in Northern Egypt to be covered by the Delta. No one really knows just how much of Egyptian history is lying within the Delta region. Probably a fairly considerable amount that will never be recovered. Posts: 676 | From: the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2010
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^^^^ The same can be said about Lower Nubia and other parts of Sudan now under water, Thanks to the Aswan and Merowe Dams. Nubia has sites going back thousands, thousands of years before Egypt or anything in the Delta yet no to little attention was ever paid due to its association with so called "Negros" now many sites have been lost and artifacts like a Merotic Rosetta Stone will never be recovered.. Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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Isis has the symbolic yellow color, perhaps representing gold, Nefertari's color is not symbolic, not yellowish.
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Stele of Guardsman Amenemhet and his mother Yatu Egypt Middle Kingdom Dynasty 12 1991-1784 BCE
^^^jari just posted this in my thread in Egyptology.
The figures here are in a common pattern, dark skinned man light skinned woman. Yatu was a real person not a Goddess so she and portrayed much lighter than Amenemhet but not in the symbolic yellow color that Isis is.
How can you come to any other conclusion other than dark skinned ancient Egyptian royalty liked light skinned women and the children would be mixed, if the process continued, further lightening.
Posts: 42925 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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"Ancient Egyptian civilization was, in ways and to an extent usually not recognized, fundamentally African. The evidence of both language and culture reveals these African roots. The origins of Egyptian ethnicity lay in the areas south of Egypt. The ancient Egyptian language belonged to the Afrasian family (also called Afroasiatic or, formerly, Hamito-Semitic). The speakers of the earliest Afrasian languages, according to recent studies, were a set of peoples whose lands between 15,000 and 13,000 B.C. stretched from Nubia in the west to far northern Somalia in the east. They supported themselves by gathering wild grains. The first elements of Egyptian culture were laid down two thousand years later, between 12,000 and 10,000 B.C., when some of these Afrasian communities expanded northward into Egypt, bringing with them a language directly ancestral to ancient Egyptian. They also introduced to Egypt the idea of using wild grains as food." (Christopher Ehret (1996) "Ancient Egyptian as an African Language, Egypt as an African Culture." In Egypt in Africa Egypt in Africa, Theodore Celenko (ed), Indiana University Press)
"Ancient Egypt belongs to a language group known as 'Afro-Asiatic'(formerly called Hamito-Semitic) and its closest relatives are other north-east African languages from Somalia to Chad. Egypt's cultural features, both material and ideological and particularly in the earliest phases, show clear connections with that same broad area. In sum, ancient Egypt was an African culture, developed by African peoples, who had wide ranging contacts in north Africa and western Asia." (Morkot, Robert (2005) The Egyptians: An Introduction. Routledge. p. 10)
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: Who says the Delta type were the minority? The most populous modern cities are in the north, and so were many ancient capitals which have been buried under fields and/or had their stones reused in other constructions. The Delta was always the part of Egypt with the heaviest population density- both urban and agricultural. The recent satellite mapping project has suggested that the population was many times greater than previously thougth, and that the Delta is full to bursting with lost settlements.
I believe the sea level has risen considerably since ancient times causing many sites in Northern Egypt to be covered by the Delta. No one really knows just how much of Egyptian history is lying within the Delta region. Probably a fairly considerable amount that will never be recovered. [/QB]
Within all of the desert lies a lot of history covered. A large part of Luxor is going to be excavated soon. And the people there are forced to transmigrate.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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Isis has the symbolic yellow color, perhaps representing gold, Nefertari's color is not symbolic, not yellowish.
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Stele of Guardsman Amenemhet and his mother Yatu Egypt Middle Kingdom Dynasty 12 1991-1784 BCE
^^^jari just posted this in my thread in Egyptology.
The figures here are in a common pattern, dark skinned man light skinned woman. Yatu was a real person not a Goddess so she and portrayed much lighter than Amenemhet but not in the symbolic yellow color that Isis is.
How can you come to any other conclusion other than dark skinned ancient Egyptian royalty liked light skinned women and the children would be mixed, if the process continued, further lightening.
That's a good picture of Nefertari. As for a preference for lighter skinned women, there's an example of 18th dynasty pharaoh Amenhotep III telling a Syrian vassal to send 'very beautiful women'. There's nothing about sending light skinned ones, but there was a specification for 'none with shrill voices'.
As far as I know Nefertiari was a native Egyptian. There is nothing to suggest otherwise. Most queens, moreover, were full sisters of their husbands which is one of the dodgier aspects of Egyptian culture. They were invariably depicted with lighter skin, nonetheless. Obviously Egyptian males made a virtue of the outdoors life, killing wildlife and foreigners and building things with their shirts off, whereas the aristocraic ladies spent more time indoors, or in the shady gardens of palace harems. It's therefore to be expected that females would generally be lighter colour.
Posts: 870 | From: uk | Registered: Apr 2011
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posted
From Timothy Kendall, Genesis of the Pharaohs: Genesis of the ‘Ka’ and Crowns?
"In the Wadi Qash, a branch of the Wadi Hammamat, Wilkinson (Genesis, p. 80) cites two rock drawings of men wearing red crowns, which he dates to Naqada I (c. 3600 BC). These drawings place the red crown earliest in Upper Egypt, just where we would expect to find the white crown — only the white crown is nowhere to be seen at this time. From this it appears that the red crown was initially associated with Upper Egypt — or at least the Wadi Hammamat — and that the white crown was a later arrival from somewhere else. Both the red and white crowns have ungainly shapes, hardly natural as head-wear. The red crown was a low cylindrical hat with a high spike-like pillar at the back, from which a rigid, curling element projected forward. The white crown was very tall and conical, and swelled slightly at the peak to form a knob. Neither form has been satisfactorily explained. What ideas lay behind such crowns? Where and how did they originate, and what did they symbolize? Wilkinson’s book may offer clues. The most distinctive aspect of the red crown is its curled element, which has the same shape as the later coiled ‘rope’ hieroglyph (Gardiner 1969, V 1). One would thus assume that this feature symbolized a rope. This symbol appears again as an element in another hieroglyph, which is the standard of the god Min (Gardiner 1969, O 44). Here the coiled rope appears between a pair of bull horns mounted on the top of an upright post. The combination of motifs — post, bull horns, and rope — seems to evoke the action of tethering a bull, an activity of the Min figure (or his human double) frequently pictured in the rock art (Genesis, figs. 37, 38, 39, 41, 52). The early presence of the red crown in the Wadi Hammamat coupled with its morphological similarity to the Min standard may suggest that the crown, and the kingship it represented, emerged in the Eastern Desert out of the Min cult. Its name (ds&rt:‘the red one’) may even suggest a relationship with the desert (ds&rt ‘the red land’).
The Min standard with bull horns (also called ‘ka’) usually appears in dynastic art erected in front of a very tall, tubular, phallic-shaped shrine, known as the sh.nt, before which Min stands (Munro 1983, figs.). This structure, described as a ‘primitive tent shrine of the desert’, was either conical or spiked at the top and was usually depicted with a doorway or pylon in its lower half, indicating that it was many times the height of a man. The shrine was supposed to have housed a bull (‘ka’) consecrated to Min, and many scenes from dynastic art depict the raising of such shrines by Nubian men with feathers in their hair (Isler 1991, 158 ff.; Giuliani in press). In some scenes we see that the rope of the Min standard, which coils between the bull horns, is actually attached to the base of the spiked top of the sh.nt just as the curled ‘rope’ element of the red crown emerges from the crown’s spike. In other images, the sh.nt appears with a conical rather than spiked summit, and its peak sometimes terminates in a knob (Isler 1991, 161, fig. 7). In such renderings the sh.nt has an equally strong resemblance to the white crown. This leads us to consider the possibility that both the red and white crowns may have derived from the Min cult but simulated different forms of the sh.nt.(Might the white colour of the ‘white crown’ be related to the white colour of the clothing of Min, as it appears in dynastic art?) Unfortunately, the earliest known depictions of the sh.nt in Egyptian art date from the 6th Dynasty, and nothing like a sh.nt appears in the rock art. It is hard to imagine, however, that such a distinctive shrine would simply be invented in the late Old Kingdom and inserted into a cult already very old. One suspects that the sh.nt may have been there all along but had not been represented.
The origin of the white crown is ambiguous. Its first appearance in Egypt may be a rock drawing in the Wadi Abbad, about 50 km east of Edfu (Genesis, p. 192). Here, a figure wearing a tall crown (without knob) appears seated on a Naqada II-style boat, accompanied by a bull and a figure of Min. The image is apparently two or three centuries later than the earliest images of the red crown. The Wadi Abbad, it should be noted, intersects the Nile near El-Kab and Hierakonpolis. These were the cities of Nekhbet and Horus Nekheny, respectively — the deities of the historic white crown kingship. Oddly, in the famous painted tomb of Hierakonpolis, also Naqada II, there is not one representation of a white crown among the numerous images of the ruler. And on the painted textile from Gebelein the ruler seated in the boat wears only a kind of bowler hat (Genesis, pl. 12).
Ironically, the earliest certain images of the white crown come not from Egypt but from Qustul in Lower Nubia, about 300 km up-river from Hierakonpolis. These images occur on two incense burners of uniquely Nubian type, which depict kings seated in archaic high-prowed boats wearing abnormally tall crowns with knobs, accompanied by bulls and Horus falcons (Williams 1980; 1986, pls. 33, 34). They date to about 3300 BC. The same crown then appears not long afterwards in Egypt: on an unprovenienced ivory knife handle in the Metropolitian Museum and, later still, on the Scorpion mace head and Narmer palette (Wilkinson 1999, 194–5). The evidence can be interpreted several ways:
a) the white crown was exclusively Egyptian, and it is Egyptian kings who are represented on the Qustul incense burners;
b) the white crown was used simultaneously by competing rulers in Upper Egypt and Lower Nubia; or
c) the white crown was first used in Nubia and spread northwards.
It was obviously associated with riverine kingship (kings in boats), bulls (the Min cult) and the god Horus. The white crown is usually assumed to be a homegrown Egyptian symbol—badge of the kings of the emergent Upper Egyptian state. They obviously pushed the red-crown wearers into Lower Egypt before the advent of the dynastic era. We need at least to consider the possibility, however, that the white crown might have had a Nubian origin. Varying forms of the shrine of Min, showing their similarities to the red and white crowns. When Egypt conquered the A-Group rulers of Qustul, they may simply have adopted their crown, just as they adopted the red crown to legitimize their claims to the north. This may explain why Ta-Seti (Lower Nubia), from the beginning of dynastic history, was Egypt’s first nome (Baines & Malek 1986, 15).
It may seem surprising, but there is a strong ancient tradition linking the white crown to Upper Nubia. In the first century BC, Diodorus Siculus (3.2.1–3.6) wrote that at the beginning of time the Egyptians and Nubians (‘Aithiopians’) were one people and that Osiris (i.e. their first king) came from ‘Aithiopia’ and colonized Egypt after it was created by the out-flowing Nile. This, he states, explains why Nubian and Egyptian customs are similar and why the kings of both countries wear ‘tall pointed felt hats ending in a knob’(Eide et al. 1996, 645). This story can be traced back to the early 18th Dynasty, when the Thutmosid pharaohs established their southern cultic frontier at Jebel Barkal, near the Fourth Cataract. This mountain is distinguished by a 75 m high pinnacle, in whose natural shape the Egyptians saw the vague features of a gigantic figure (i.e.Osiris) as well as a rearing uraeus (Nekhbet of el-Kab), both wearing the white crown. Because they also recognized the rock as an erect phallus, they believed they had discovered here the original mound of Creation — a Nubian Heliopolis and Karnak—and the birthplace and residence of the primeval ithyphallic Amun (= Min). Since the mountain lay in the extreme south, they identified its god as the source of the inundation and fertility. Since it was the perceived home of the southern uraeus (a southern el-Kab), they also believed it was the birthplace of the white crown. They thus built here an important coronation complex and Pr-wr (temple of Nekhbet)(Kendall 1997, 168–70; 2002; 2004). They simultaneously built Luxor (‘Southern Sanctuary’) as a Theban manifestation of Jebel Barkal in order to honour the same god and to perform the same coronations locally (Pamminger 1992; Kendall 2004). At the end of the New Kingdom the Amun priesthood at Thebes took away the right of the kings to rule the South. I am presently investigating a hypothesis that this may have been due to the fact that the pharaohs had lost control of Jebel Barkal and had allowed Nubia to become detached from Upper Egypt. The priesthood only willingly restored the white crown to a ruling family in the eighth century BC, when they recognized the Nubian kings of Kush as heirs to the imperial pharaohs by virtue of their renewed control of Jebel Barkal and their ability to reunite it with Karnak. Like the New Kingdom pharaohs, the 25th-Dynasty kings believed that through their control of Jebel Barkal they were heirs to the ‘kingship of Re’. It was this belief that drove the Egyptianizing Meroitic state in the Sudan for the next thousand years. The Jebel Barkal pinnacle is the largest freestanding monolith in the Nile Valley, and to superstitious ancient man its impact on the senses and imagination would have been enormous. When the Egyptians laid eyes on it in the early 18th Dynasty, they thought they had rediscovered the source of the white crown and the home of their first kings. Was this merely contrived history, or was this belief based on some genuine, possibly ancient Nubian tradition?
Surely the Nubians who greeted the Egyptians must have venerated this rock in similar ways, if ethnological parallels can be applied. Many modern animist peoples of the Sudan typically worship large phallic-shaped stones and identify them simultaneously with ancestors and totemic animals and consider them sources of fertility (Bell 1936; Bolton 1936).
Morkot (2000, p. 55) has shown that some Upper and Lower Nubian kings, independent of the pharaohs, were wearing the white crown at the time of the 11th–17th Dynasties. Is it possible that this practice, usually described as ‘emulating the pharaohs’, might actually be a native tradition going back to Qustul? The problem is that we have almost no pre-Egyptian Nubian representational art— or texts. However, a recently discovered Egyptian text from the tomb of Sobeknakht, governor of el-Kab in the late 17th Dynasty, recounts a massive Nubian invasion of Egypt as far north as el-Kab, apparently by the king of Kerma. Might this have been launched to extend that potentate’s ‘white crown’ control over Upper Egypt (Davies 2003)? Is it a coincidence that the territory over which Huy, Viceroy of Kush, later claimed administrative control extended from el-Kab to Jebel Barkal (Davies & Gardiner 1926, 11)?
A prehistoric Sudanese origin for the white crown may sound preposterous, but is it beyond possibility? The most important point made by Wilkinson in Genesis is that the climate in Upper Egypt was much wetter in the early fourth millennium BC. This implies that the farther south one went, the rainfall would have been greater, and the deserts more habitable. Greater rainfall would have meant higher inundations and better seasonal navigation of the Nile. Recent studies indicate that the great wadis of the northern Sudan were all major Nile tributaries at this time (see, for example, Keding in press; Fuller 199.
Communication would have been easier between north and south, which probably accounts for the striking cultural uniformity between Egypt and Nubia at this time (Wilkinson 1999, 176; Wengrow 2003b, 126–35). The similarity of style between the rock drawings of Upper Egypt and northern Sudan implies wide-ranging pastoralist peoples of similar backgrounds (Chittick 1962; Allard-Huard 1993; Paner 2003, 19, pl. 12), who probably all worshipped some form of Min (a god venerated, according to later Egyptian texts, from Upper Egypt to ‘Punt.’). Would it be so difficult to imagine that in the late fifth or early fourth millennium BC local herdsmen venerated the Jebel Barkal pinnacle was worshipped by surrounding herders both as a god’s phallus and as a divine ancestor in stone wearing a strange, very tall pointed headdress? If so, wouldn’t the leaders of these peoples have adopted a similar crown to show their descent from him? If the crown symbolized the god’s phallus, then the wearers of the crown would have been perceived as the bearers of the god’s fertility wherever they went. And if some of them roamed far north from Jebel Barkal—into Lower Nubia — with their herds (see Castiglioni & Castiglioni 2003, pl. XXXI), wouldn’t they have continued to worship the god in his tall sh.nt shrine, which duplicated the form of the mountain’s deified monolith? From there these symbols could have easily passed to the earliest rulers of Egypt.
If it seems improbable that an Egyptian crown would have its prehistoric origins in the Sudan, would it not be just as improbable to find there that an ancient Egyptian royal emblem had survived to modern times as a symbol of high political office? Visiting the Khalifa’s House Museum in Omdurman in January 2004, I saw a glass case containing some of the possessions of the Mahdi’s successor, the Khalifa Abdullahi el-Taishi (died 1899), who would have known nothing of the pharaohs. There, together with his Qur’ans, was his wooden staff: a classic was scepter!"
End
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: Show me where anyone has posted an image of a Modern Delta Egyptian next to an Image of an Asiatic being slayed.
quote:Originally posted by Whore-Tep101: Jari, if you condemn me for seeming to suggest that the Aswani woman you posted looks more like one of ancient Egypt's enemies to the south,
Your beloved ancient Egyptians painted the picture of the black troops of their southern enemy being slaughtered and scattered, remember, I didn't! It happened to be one of the first image to come to hand clearly showing the difference between the way Egyptians represented their own features and those of the southern black peoples, - their enemies.
This was, remember, after Swenet had challenged me to find group images of ancient Egyptians matching the lighter modern Egyptians, which I did by the spade load; and after he failed to acknowledge the fact and still insisted on comparing the Copts to these semitic foreigners, regardless.
The Copts are indeed the purest descendants of ancient Egyptians, and they have enough to endure without having their identity undermined by outsiders. It's perfectly clear that Coptic Christian Egyptians are not recent descendants of Semites. They spoke the Egyptian language until centuries after the Muslim conquest, still have it in their liturgy even now. There was direct ethnic and cultural continuity between pharaonic and Coptic Egypt. Coptic Christians who held fast to their faith did not mix with any Muslim outsiders, or else their children could not have been raised Christian. The Muslim Egyptians are mostly of the same stock as the Copts, that said, because there was mass conversion to Islam, not population displacement or genocide.
Posts: 870 | From: uk | Registered: Apr 2011
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al You're right though. Rahotep comes posting his same old same old crap, pretty unbelievable how he comes to spam a thread like he does. Ish, I disagree. I don't think Rahotep needs to be reminded of our past responses to him. He doesn't read any of it in the first place. And if ever he decides he wants to learn instead of calling us "Afro-centrists" as an attempt to avoid the research, then he can go back and read. What amazes me is how, given the very nature of this thread in the first place, he would start spamming. He has no respect.
-------------------- L Writes: Posts: 1502 | From: Dies Irae | Registered: Oct 2010
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WOW...This Rahotep101 character is only kidding himself.
Ish Gebor posted nothing but FACTS yet Rahotep made the same exact claims of Copts being "Pure" Ancient Egyptians...seemingly disregarding that majority of Copt's lived in the city of Alexandria which was an Greek out post. He also seems to forget that many people like Greeks, Romans, Persians etc came and lived in Egypt in the Delta regions. What a Sad joke this guy is
Rahotep, where is the proof of what you state? Show the forum that the Copts are unmixed Egyptians.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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The majority of Copts did not live in Alexandria, they lived throughout Egypt and the dominant Coptic dialecte, Sahidic, was actually of southern origin. In Alexandria native Egyptians formed a distinct community from the Greek-speakers, (there were Greek, Egyptian and Jewish qyarters) and in the Christian era Greek and Coptic Christians had separate churches. Most Copts were never Greek-speakers. Persians, Greeks & Romans all administred the whole land of Egypt, therefore there is no particular reason to believe that any descendants they left ought to be found only in the north.
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