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Martial arts or fighting arts is something that is universial to all populations. No one culture has invented martial arts but certain cultures have proven to be more innovative in creating new martial arts. People making these broad diffusionist claims about creating rudimentary elements of culture are not to be taken seriously.
Africans have many different martial arts but it doubtful that they created all martial arts.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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I am aware of the various forms of African combatives including capoeira. How does this prove you point that ''Africans'' or ''blacks'' created all forms of martial arts?
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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malibudusul, I know you mean well but you need to stop making these wild azz claims with so little evidence.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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Iron Lion, the preponderance of evidence is on the person who makes the initial claim. Martial arts is not like pottery or language in which you can show a clear archaeological and anthropological marker. Martial arts like wresstling is found in all parts of world. Very isolated communities in Papua and the Pacific islands which do not have an ancient Egyptian origin have their own martil arts.
Perhaps you can argue that Greco-Roman pankration might have an ancient Egyptian origin but its doubtful every martial art descends from an ancient Egyptian.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Blacks were all over the world! Africa, Europe, Asia, america. an example: The Chinese were black.
Posts: 2922 | From: World Empire of the Black People | Registered: Jul 2011
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Your arguement is because there were phenotypically ''black'' populations across the globe that all martial arts descend from these populations. I found this argument far fetched and also just as ethnocentric as saying ''black'' Africans are incapable of founding a civlization or of anything of value. Either way physical movements are universial and every ethnic group on the face of the earth is capable of inventining martial arts.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Animals (Chinese: Arimals) invented martial techniques and strategies.
Man invented humanity.
How about starting a thread that's just on black or African martial arts, and not ever so unnecessarily implying precendence?
Also, African martial arts is cool but what makes making a special thing out of this gay is that the mixing of martial arts have shown us that the most efficient thing to do in general is learn a few different fighting styles, possibly even integrated ones.
quote:Originally posted by ausar: Your arguement is because there were phenotypically ''black'' populations across the globe that all martial arts descend from these populations. I found this argument far fetched and also just as ethnocentric as saying ''black'' Africans are incapable of founding a civlization or of anything of value.
Well actually putting it that way is not far-fetched .. but still just as ... lame.
As are the African Chinese and Celtic stories, they're the same as the Aryan Zulu and Caucasian Yoruba.
I will admit there may exist and may have existed pockets of untouched groups in areas outside of Africa who've retained slightly more melanin than surrounding groups, sometimes the case of being just that, other times they are more recently genetically related to Africans.
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ausar: ... Martial arts is not like pottery or language in which you can show a clear archaeological and anthropological marker.
Martial arts like wresstling is found in all parts of world. Very isolated communities in Papua and the Pacific islands which do not have an ancient Egyptian origin have their own martil arts.
Perhaps you can argue that Greco-Roman pankration might have an ancient Egyptian origin but its doubtful every martial art descends from an ancient Egyptian.
We have shown you textual evidence of Egyptian Martial sciences. Since you claim there were earlier schools in other races, please post your evidence.
Martial Arts is an art and science. It gets disseminated. You don't just begin running a Kung Fu school by coincidence. You go learn the arts and sciences first for many years. That is why there is a school called Shaolin temple, that is why you have Capoiera Lodges in Brazil. Ausar, what is wrong? The ones in Taihiti and Paupau all have ancient links with main land Asia, then to Africa.
See the Egyptian Martial Arts text we posted for you. Show me an earlier Chinese or Japanese text?
I know for sure that Greek martial arts is a direct child of Egyptian martial arts. Same goes for Romans. Martial arts is a body of sciences. It just does not drop from the moon, and if you claim so, then prove it.
Martial arts is textual, it is cultural, it is scientific, it is a heritage that is passed down from one to another. It is a most serious science.
Stop being stubborn in face of evidence. If you have a better evidence then present it.
Lion!
Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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Iron, I never argued there were earlier forms of martial arts, but that martial arts is something that was spontaneously created by multiple groups of people.
If you are trying to prove a single source for all martial arts then I suggest you provide textual evidence. Chinese and Japanese forms of martial arts both have a long textual record for which ancient Egypt does not. Wrestling moves on tomb scenes tell us nothing of the written rules of combat only that ancient Egyptians had physical combat. If you suggest Asian forms of martial arts comes from ancient Egypt then show me documentation of movements like Asian martial arts.
Where is your textual sources for transmission of martial arts?
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by ausar: Iron, I never argued there were earlier forms of martial arts, but that martial arts is something that was spontaneously created by multiple groups of people.
If you are trying to prove a single source for all martial arts then I suggest you provide textual evidence. Chinese and Japanese forms of martial arts both have a long textual record for which ancient Egypt does not. Wrestling moves on tomb scenes tell us nothing of the written rules of combat only that ancient Egyptians had physical combat. If you suggest Asian forms of martial arts comes from ancient Egypt then show me documentation of movements like Asian martial arts.
Where is your textual sources for transmission of martial arts?
You call it wrestling Ausar, we call it judo.
I don't know what you are talking about Chinese and Japanese martial arts being backed by textual evidence. Where are those textual evidence and what do they tell you?
In the Shaolin temple, where chinese martial arts began, the monks were buddhist missonaries transmitting ages-old moves, stretches, excersize that helps one maintain mental and spiritual balance.
The Buddhist learned from the Kemits. There have been 10 Buddhas in history. Many of them were Kemitian priest spreading the knowledge of the ancient mysteries, herbalism and martial arts.
Have you ever asked yourself why, African herbalism is so similar to Indian and Chinese herbalism? Is it just coincidence?
Have you ever wondered why African ancestral veneration practice is found same way in India, China and Japan? It is not just a coincidence!
Have you asked why the basic moves of Capoeira are similar to the basic moves of Taekwondo or Kung Fu? It is not just a coincidence.
We have spent years on this site, digging up cultural, and genetic parallels between Asiatics and Africans.
You and your old buddy Rashole, invented the fake theory of "Black Asian" being completely different from "black Africans". It is a fool's paradise you are in.
When you observe the repeating patterns of similarities between Africans and Asians, you won't be looking around for "coincidences", "sopantaneity" and "chance" development to explain what is a clear case of cultural continuity to any other right thinking person.
Since you are unable to produce any evidence to show earlier invention of martial arts outside Africa, how come you had the guts to discourage the youthful Malibudu by injecting falsehood and fantasies.
Since we know that martial arts began in Africa, and is practised throughout Africa, we also know that it was carried by Africans to other parts of the world where similar systems as what existed in Africa were developed. What is so haard for you to accept in this proposition?
Lion!
BTW: How can a sane person claim there is no connection between the two systems presented herein:
Japanese Judo moves:
African Judo moves: Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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The Buddhist learned from the Kemits. There have been 10 Buddhas in history. Many of them were Kemitian priest spreading the knowledge of the ancient mysteries, herbalism and martial arts.
This is just a claim. Where is the evidence, lion? Why do you get offended when people simply demand evidence for your claims?
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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The Buddhist learned from the Kemits. There have been 10 Buddhas in history. Many of them were Kemitian priest spreading the knowledge of the ancient mysteries, herbalism and martial arts.
This is just a claim. Where is the evidence, lion? Why do you get offended when people simply demand evidence for your claims?
What evidence do you require? Be specific and keep it to the topic.
I provided you with comparative frames of Kemitian's martial art and Japanese judo. Do you find anything unacceptable therein?
Lion!
Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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The Buddhist learned from the Kemits. There have been 10 Buddhas in history. Many of them were Kemitian priest spreading the knowledge of the ancient mysteries, herbalism and martial arts.
This is just a claim. Where is the evidence, lion? Why do you get offended when people simply demand evidence for your claims?
What evidence do you require? Be specific and keep it to the topic.
I provided you with comparative frames of Kemitian's martial art and Japanese judo. Do you find anything unacceptable therein?
Lion!
Only the part that refers to Egyptians as a "brown, Mediterranean race". I also fail to observe any Egyptian buddhists in the above piece. Who is to say wrestling didn't independently co-evolve in Japan and the Nile valley? Shouldn't that be the first line of reasoning in this case?
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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Iron, the claims of shaolin monks is largely a mythical history meant to place prestige upon Chinese combative systems. If I remember correctly the pratice of Kung-Fu came from a southern Indian and not a ancient Egyptian. I have heard claims of Buddahist doctrines coming from ancient Egypt but very few of the people who make such claims can find the Ten Fold path in ancinet Kemetian teaching. Similiarities but nothing distinctly similiar.
Herbalism is a universial concept that probably goes back to paleolithic man digging up roots and experimenting with them.
You are simply playing diffusionist trying to ascribe all common vestiages of human nature to ancient Egyptians.
Combative systems are not very hard to invent and donot require diffusion to exist. Even if ancient Egyptian wrestling gave rise to Judo this does not mean it retains the original innovation. People adapt foreign martial arts and combine them with their own. What of modern combatives like Krav Magna?
I am not discounting the possibility of diffusion but I honestly only see ancedotal evidence based off physical representations of movements on bas reliefs. Nobody is discouraging anybody from research. The fact you dislike any crtique of any theoriest leads me to believe you are as dogmatic as Eurocentrics.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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[/QUOTE]Originally posted by Sundjata: Only the part that refers to Egyptians as a "brown, Mediterranean race". [/qb][/QUOTE]That is surely your imagination. Where did I make such a claim?
quote:Originally posted by Sundjata: I also fail to observe any Egyptian buddhists in the above piece.
This thread is about martial arts. If you want to discuss Egypt and Buddhism, I would recommend any of Muata Ashby's famous books. Google for any of them and you will find the truth you seek.
quote:Originally posted by Sundjata: Who is to say wrestling didn't independently co-evolve in Japan and the Nile valley? Shouldn't that be the first line of reasoning in this case?
Then you surely deny the evidence of your own eyes and common sense. But then that is you...
In the picture below, the Kemitian system was developed at least 2000 years before the Japanese system. Think!
Japanese Judo moves:
African Judo moves: Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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Blacks invented no martial arts. Note how this whole thread includes nothing on sub-sahara africa, its again just self-hating blacks trying to steal Caucasoid egypt.
Posts: 2408 | From: My mother's basement | Registered: Dec 2010
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quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: Blacks invented no martial arts. Note how this whole thread includes nothing on sub-sahara africa, its again just self-hating blacks trying to steal Caucasoid egypt.
you do not like it when people try and steal european history yet you try and steal african history at the same time and claim it as your own lol what a joke you are
Posts: 1064 | Registered: Jan 2011
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quote:Originally posted by ausar: .... I have heard claims of Buddahist doctrines coming from ancient Egypt but very few of the people who make such claims can find the Ten Fold path in ancinet Kemetian teaching. Similiarities but nothing distinctly similiar.
quote: Herbalism is a universial concept that probably goes back to paleolithic man digging up roots and experimenting with them.
By the same logic, I suppose you can say modern medicine is a universal concept and was just about collecting elemental chemicals and testing them. Yet, can you say it developed spontaneously?
Herbalism is a very complex body of sciences that even today enriches the practices of modern medicine. Healing plants not known to modern science exists in herbalism. You think that is a "universal" development?
Why then did the Greeks borrow their herbal medicine from Egypt via Hippocrates, through Imhotep our father?
Why did Galen rely so much on Egyptian herbal texts?
Why did the Muurs teach the Europeans the practices of modern medicine?
Why did all that no occur "spontaneously"?
quote:
You are simply playing diffusionist trying to ascribe all common vestiages of human nature to ancient Egyptians.
...
No sir! I am telling you that you are arguing with the evidence of your own eyes. You have been shown detailed judo throws in todays Japan, as well as detailed Judo throws in ancient Egypt. Same thing.
I learned Judo in Africa, misleading called wrestling. I learned Kai, in Africa misleadingly called Karate. Kai is a form of Capoeira. I took lessons in Tae Kwondo and Japanese Judo. All those moves are exactly the same. The philosophy of the systems are the same.
I always suspected an Egyptian linkage from I studied Diop's book. He had a section where he linked "wrestling in Egypt" with wrestling in the rest of Africa.
quote:
Combative systems are not very hard to invent and donot require diffusion to exist. Even if ancient Egyptian wrestling gave rise to Judo this does not mean it retains the original innovation. People adapt foreign martial arts and combine them with their own. What of modern combatives like Krav Magna?
Shut up Ausar! Combative systems are sciences! You need a master to teach you. Remember the relatively modern Tae Kwondo came from Kung Fu, which came from Karate, which came from Judo. Nobody argues that.
Now you see the common source of all those systems, pictured right there for you and you are arguing with me. You argue because you have never held hold a combative stance in your life under trainning. If you ever did, then you would know that you are wrong in saying that "combative systems are not hard to invent"
Finally whether Judo retains its original form or not as Egyptian wrestling is irrelevant to our point.
Our point is that since the Egyptians have the most ancient detailed explanation of combat system, older than anyone else by thousands of years, then they must have invented it.
quote:I am not discounting the possibility of diffusion but I honestly only see ancedotal evidence based off physical representations of movements on bas reliefs. Nobody is discouraging anybody from research. ....
A picture is worth a thousand words. The fact that you can argue with pictures showing you the same combat moves, one is 2000 years older than the other... well Ausar? Well? Hear yourself again...
Japanese Judo moves:
African Judo moves: Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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Cassiterides, why do you spend every idle hour on a website populated mostly by non-whites? Aren't you a white nationalist and shouldn't you be on white seperatist sites trying to promote racial love and unity with your people. Are you here just because Egyptsearch has alot of bandwith and is far reaching?
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Ausar, he is here because he has a psychological need for constant attention. Best thing for him, ignore him. Silence. He is a dummy anyways...
Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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I usually don't address cassiterides but I wanted a explanation from him that justifies the amount of time he spends amongst non-whites. I personally think its because he knows Egypt search recieves more hits than most white supremicist websites. He can spread his racialist message through Egyptsearch. I don't usually object as this is a free forum but I was curious the reason he spends so much time with non-whites.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by ausar: I usually don't address cassiterides but I wanted a explanation from him that justifies the amount of time he spends amongst non-whites. I personally think its because he knows Egypt search recieves more hits than most white supremicist websites. He can spread his racialist message through Egyptsearch. I don't usually object as this is a free forum but I was curious the reason he spends so much time with non-whites.
Prior to posting here yesterday and today, i didn't post here for 8 or 9 days. I come and go. I post here to refute afrocentrism. There are many mugs online who may sadly believe in nonsense posted by afrocentrics on this forum (and elswhere), so they need people like me to see the truth about these matters. Please look at the afrocentric stupidity for example above, Ironlion is posting that anyone with a tan is a negro. That means if a white blonde swede aquires a sun-tan he must be a negroid or a ''brown raced'' african. Lucky for me i don't need to spend much time refuting this, as most viewers will see Ironlion as nothing but a troll.
The more crackpot and oddball afrocentric claims are posted (e.g. that King Henry VIII was black and the nonsense Ironlion posted above) the more it discredits afrocentrism. Its hard to take such claims as anything more than parody.
And who would parody afrocentrism?
Egmond Codfried and Ironlion may be actually white people in real life who are parodying afrocentrism to discredit it.
Henry VIII ''the negro'' -
I'm sure IronLion and Egmond Codfried etc would fit right in at Stormfront as they parody afrocentrism there regularly. Posts: 2408 | From: My mother's basement | Registered: Dec 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Sundjata: malibudusul, I know you mean well but you need to stop making these wild azz claims with so little evidence.
^^He's just a troll setting up a strawman, like the fake "black militants" you meet on the web, with fake "ebonics" dialog. Once the fake strawman is set up, then under another user name, they will talk about "refuting" the fake and associated "crazy Afrocentrics". Its transparent BS.
Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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Prior to posting here yesterday and today, i didn't post here for 8 or 9 days. I come and go. I post here to refute afrocentrism...
Face it, like that clown going by the name of confirming truth, you come here because at your home stormfront court, you will just be another whining white boy among many other. So, your voice will be drowned among the many, and not particularly special. Also, if you do it there, few Black folks would be around to hear you wail all day long about Afrocentrists and/or Blacks, and so, could care less. You come here to make Blacks hear you, and hopefully, piss them off. Just admit it...it's not exactly a secret, you know.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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People who would fit in at stormfront are Marc Washtington, Egmond Codfried and Ironlion. All are fake accounts that post things as bizarre as possible to parody afrocentrism (e.g. Marc claiming Henry VIII or Columbus was a negro, or egmond codfried claiming the anglo saxons were negroids with afros).
All i see on this forum is fake accounts (probably owned by WHITE people) who come here to parody afrocentrism. I wouldn't be surprised if most of these accounts are controlled by white nationalists who post at stormfront.
Posts: 2408 | From: My mother's basement | Registered: Dec 2010
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quote:Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova:
quote:Originally posted by Sundjata: malibudusul, I know you mean well but you need to stop making these wild azz claims with so little evidence.
^^He's just a troll setting up a strawman, like the fake "black militants" you meet on the web, with fake "ebonics" dialog. Once the fake strawman is set up, then under another user name, they will talk about "refuting" the fake and associated "crazy Afrocentrics". Its transparent BS.
malibudusul, Marc Washington, Egmond Codfried and IronLion are all fake accounts set up to parody afrocentrism.
There are genuine afrocentrics on this site who claim egypt was black. However its clear who the parody accounts are when they go as far as claiming blatently obvious white people were black e.g. Henry VIII, Shakespeare, Queen Elizabeth I etc.
So the question is - who owns these parodying accounts?
Why would blacks want to parody afrocentrism?
I don't believe they would, which is why all these accounts must be owned by white people.
Posts: 2408 | From: My mother's basement | Registered: Dec 2010
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If you don't belong to the stormfront, why do you speak like an ass like they do, and think like an idiot like they do? Shouldn't people with your brain dead ku klux clownie ideas of white separatism and fake sense of "white supremacy" belong in that rubbish heap of stormfront? Serioulsy, what differentiates a lonely europoid nut like you from the stormfront heap?
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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The Buddhist learned from the Kemits. There have been 10 Buddhas in history. Many of them were Kemitian priest spreading the knowledge of the ancient mysteries, herbalism and martial arts.
This is just a claim. Where is the evidence, lion? Why do you get offended when people simply demand evidence for your claims?
What evidence do you require? Be specific and keep it to the topic.
I provided you with comparative frames of Kemitian's martial art and Japanese judo. Do you find anything unacceptable therein?
Lion!
Only the part that refers to Egyptians as a "brown, Mediterranean race". I also fail to observe any Egyptian buddhists in the above piece. Who is to say wrestling didn't independently co-evolve in Japan and the Nile valley? Shouldn't that be the first line of reasoning in this case?
You spend too much time reading European literature. If you respected Black researchers you would know that Africans played an important role in Buddhism and the existence of Buddhists or Gymnosophists in Egypt and Meroe.
“It would seem that Buddha was an Egyptian priest, chased from Memphis by the persecution of Cambyses. This tradition would justify the portrayal of Buddha with woolly hair. Historical documents do not invalidate this tradition…There is general agreement today on placing in the sixth century not only Buddha but the whole religious and philosophical movement in Asia with Confucius in China, Zoroaster in Iran. This would confirm the hypothesis of a dispersion of Egyptian priests at that time spreading their doctrine in Asia. (p.287)”
Anta Diop in The African Origin of Civilization .
Diop's mention of Memphis is quite interested because it is here that Petrie (1908) found evidence of Buddhist colonist in Egypt. Petrie claimed the iconography dated back to the Persian period of Egyptian rule (c 525-405BC). he wrote:
"on the right side, at the top is the Tibetan Mongolian, below that the Aryan woman of the Punjab, and at the base a seated figure in Indian attitude with the scarf over the left shoulder. These are the first remains of Indians known on the Mediterranean. Hitherto there have been no material evidences for that connection which is stated to have existed, both by embassies from Egypt and Syria to India, and by the great Buddist mission sent by Asoka as far west as Greece and Cyrene. We seem now to have touched the Indian colony in Memphis, and we may hope for more light on that connection which seems to have been so momentous for Western thought" (p.129).
If Petrie's dating is correct this puts Buddhists in Egypt two hundred years before Asoka, sent Buddhist missionaries to Egypt.The Classical writers report on Indian sages in the region. This makes it clear that Buddhist had probably been living in Meroitic Empire and Egypt for 600 years before the Meroites invented Meroitic writing.
Philostratus:The Life of Apollonius of Tyana makes it clear that the Gymnosophist lived in Upper Egypt and the Meroitic Empire. The historical evidence makes it clear that there was probably two migrations of Buddhist Gymnosophists to Egypt and the Meroitic Empire.
Asoka was a supporter of Buddhism. Zacharias P. Thundy, in Buddha and Christ make it clear that the edits of Asoka (c.274-236 BC) indicate that this ruler sent missionaries to Egypt to preach the Buddhist Dharma(pp.242-243).
Thundy maintains that archaeological evidence exist for a community of Indian sages living in Memphis as early as 200 BC (p.243). This was based on the work of Petrie.
We know that decendents of these missionaries were still in Egypt over two hundred years later because they were visited by Apollonius of Tyana.
Asoka used Kharosthi to write his edits. The Buddhist also used this writing system to record their scriptures. This means that the Gymnosophists would have had a long tradition of employing Kharosthi to communicate their ideas. The Gymnosophists were probably well respected by the Meroites and some Meroites probably had knowledge of Buddhist teachings and literacy.
Some Meroites may have played an important role in Buddhist because Blemmyae, a prominent group in the Meroitic Sudan are mentioned in Pali text Tipitaka (see:JDM Derrett, (2002) A Blemmya in India, Numen 49:460-474). Dr.Derrett wrote that in early Pali text " we have a Blemmya (an African) in front rank Buddhist texts of very respectable age (p.465).
The Buddhist text where Blemmya were mentioned are very old. The Vinaya pitaka, is dated to the 4th century B.C.E.
If Blemmya are mentioned in Buddhists text we can be sure that Meroites were not ignorant of Kharosthi. This would explain why many of the Meroitic symbols agree with Kharosthi. They agree because some Meroites were probably already literate in Kharosthi due to the influence of Buddhism in the Meroitic Empire.
.
Reference:
W. M. Flinders Petrie, The peoples of the Persian Empire, Man (1908) No.71:pp.129-130.
. Check out my video on Buddhism in Ancient Egypt and the Sudan:
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Zen Buddhism taken to China by a WHITE MAN who also founded Shaolin Kung Fu -
Bodhidharma (Tamil: போதிதர்மன்) was a Buddhist monk who lived during the 5th/6th century and is traditionally credited as the leading patriarch and transmitter of Zen (Chinese: Chán, Sanskrit: Dhyāna) to China. According to Chinese legend, he also began the physical training of the Shaolin monks that led to the creation of Shaolinquan.
Throughout Buddhist art, Bodhidharma is depicted as a Caucasian -bearded, white skinned and blue eyed. He is described as "The Blue-Eyed Barbarian" in Chinese texts.
Posts: 2408 | From: My mother's basement | Registered: Dec 2010
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quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: Zen Buddhism taken to China by a WHITE MAN who also founded Shaolin Kung Fu -
Bodhidharma (Tamil: போதிதர்மன்) was a Buddhist monk who lived during the 5th/6th century and is traditionally credited as the leading patriarch and transmitter of Zen (Chinese: Chán, Sanskrit: Dhyāna) to China. According to Chinese legend, he also began the physical training of the Shaolin monks that led to the creation of Shaolinquan.
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: Zen Buddhism taken to China by a WHITE MAN who also founded Shaolin Kung Fu -
Bodhidharma (Tamil: போதிதர்மன்) was a Buddhist monk who lived during the 5th/6th century and is traditionally credited as the leading patriarch and transmitter of Zen (Chinese: Chán, Sanskrit: Dhyāna) to China. According to Chinese legend, he also began the physical training of the Shaolin monks that led to the creation of Shaolinquan.
Throughout Buddhist art, Bodhidharma is depicted as a Caucasian -bearded, white skinned and blue eyed. He is described as "The Blue-Eyed Barbarian" in Chinese texts.
You are such a liar. The founder of this sect was a blue-eyed Tamil not a European.
quote:
Bodhidharma From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search
Bodhidharma, woodblock print by Yoshitoshi, 1887.
Names (details) Known in English as: Bodhidharma Tamil: போதிதர்மன் Sanskrit: बोधिधर्म Persian: بودیدارما
Malay: Dharuma Thai: ตั๊กม๊อ Takmor Vietnamese: Bồ-đề-đạt-ma Bodhidharma (Tamil: போதிதர்மன்) was a Buddhist monk who lived during the 5th/6th century and is traditionally credited as the leading patriarch and transmitter of Zen (Chinese: Chán, Sanskrit: Dhyāna) to China. According to Chinese legend, he also began the physical training of the Shaolin monks that led to the creation of Shaolinquan. However, martial arts historians have shown this legend stems from a 17th century qigong manual known as the Yijin Jing.
Little contemporary biographical information on Bodhidharma is extant, and subsequent accounts became layered with legend, but most accounts agree that he was a Tamil prince from southern India's Pallava Empire.[1] Scholars have concluded his place of birth to be Kanchipuram in Tamil Nadu.[2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9]
After becoming a Buddhist monk, Bodhidharma traveled to China. The accounts differ on the date of his arrival, with one early account claiming that he arrived during the Liú Sòng Dynasty (420–479) and later accounts dating his arrival to the Liáng Dynasty (502–557). Bodhidharma was primarily active in the lands of the Northern Wèi Dynasty (386–534). Modern scholarship dates him to about the early 5th century.[10]
Throughout Buddhist art, Bodhidharma is depicted as a rather ill-tempered, profusely bearded and wide-eyed barbarian. He is described as "The Blue-Eyed Barbarian" in Chinese texts.[11] The Anthology of the Patriarchal Hall (952) identifies Bodhidharma as the 28th Patriarch of Buddhism in an uninterrupted line that extends all the way back to the Buddha himself. D.T. Suzuki contends that Chán's growth in popularity during the 7th and 8th centuries attracted criticism that it had "no authorized records of its direct transmission from the founder of Buddhism" and that Chán historians made Bodhidharma the 28th patriarch of Buddhism in response to such attacks.
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Tamils do not have blue eyes and thick body hair. Light blue eyes and body hair are Caucasoid features.
Secondly the legends also state Bodhidharma was a PERSIAN. He was a bearded, blue eyed and Caucasian.
Posts: 2408 | From: My mother's basement | Registered: Dec 2010
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The Buddhist learned from the Kemits. There have been 10 Buddhas in history. Many of them were Kemitian priest spreading the knowledge of the ancient mysteries, herbalism and martial arts.
This is just a claim. Where is the evidence, lion? Why do you get offended when people simply demand evidence for your claims?
What evidence do you require? Be specific and keep it to the topic.
I provided you with comparative frames of Kemitian's martial art and Japanese judo. Do you find anything unacceptable therein?
Lion!
Only the part that refers to Egyptians as a "brown, Mediterranean race". I also fail to observe any Egyptian buddhists in the above piece. Who is to say wrestling didn't independently co-evolve in Japan and the Nile valley? Shouldn't that be the first line of reasoning in this case?
You spend too much time reading European literature. If you respected Black researchers you would know that Africans played an important role in Buddhism and the existence of Buddhists or Gymnosophists in Egypt and Meroe.
“It would seem that Buddha was an Egyptian priest, chased from Memphis by the persecution of Cambyses. This tradition would justify the portrayal of Buddha with woolly hair. Historical documents do not invalidate this tradition…There is general agreement today on placing in the sixth century not only Buddha but the whole religious and philosophical movement in Asia with Confucius in China, Zoroaster in Iran. This would confirm the hypothesis of a dispersion of Egyptian priests at that time spreading their doctrine in Asia. (p.287)”
Anta Diop in The African Origin of Civilization .
Diop's mention of Memphis is quite interested because it is here that Petrie (1908) found evidence of Buddhist colonist in Egypt. Petrie claimed the iconography dated back to the Persian period of Egyptian rule (c 525-405BC). he wrote:
"on the right side, at the top is the Tibetan Mongolian, below that the Aryan woman of the Punjab, and at the base a seated figure in Indian attitude with the scarf over the left shoulder. These are the first remains of Indians known on the Mediterranean. Hitherto there have been no material evidences for that connection which is stated to have existed, both by embassies from Egypt and Syria to India, and by the great Buddist mission sent by Asoka as far west as Greece and Cyrene. We seem now to have touched the Indian colony in Memphis, and we may hope for more light on that connection which seems to have been so momentous for Western thought" (p.129).
If Petrie's dating is correct this puts Buddhists in Egypt two hundred years before Asoka, sent Buddhist missionaries to Egypt.The Classical writers report on Indian sages in the region. This makes it clear that Buddhist had probably been living in Meroitic Empire and Egypt for 600 years before the Meroites invented Meroitic writing.
Philostratus:The Life of Apollonius of Tyana makes it clear that the Gymnosophist lived in Upper Egypt and the Meroitic Empire. The historical evidence makes it clear that there was probably two migrations of Buddhist Gymnosophists to Egypt and the Meroitic Empire.
Asoka was a supporter of Buddhism. Zacharias P. Thundy, in Buddha and Christ make it clear that the edits of Asoka (c.274-236 BC) indicate that this ruler sent missionaries to Egypt to preach the Buddhist Dharma(pp.242-243).
Thundy maintains that archaeological evidence exist for a community of Indian sages living in Memphis as early as 200 BC (p.243). This was based on the work of Petrie.
We know that decendents of these missionaries were still in Egypt over two hundred years later because they were visited by Apollonius of Tyana.
Asoka used Kharosthi to write his edits. The Buddhist also used this writing system to record their scriptures. This means that the Gymnosophists would have had a long tradition of employing Kharosthi to communicate their ideas. The Gymnosophists were probably well respected by the Meroites and some Meroites probably had knowledge of Buddhist teachings and literacy.
Some Meroites may have played an important role in Buddhist because Blemmyae, a prominent group in the Meroitic Sudan are mentioned in Pali text Tipitaka (see:JDM Derrett, (2002) A Blemmya in India, Numen 49:460-474). Dr.Derrett wrote that in early Pali text " we have a Blemmya (an African) in front rank Buddhist texts of very respectable age (p.465).
The Buddhist text where Blemmya were mentioned are very old. The Vinaya pitaka, is dated to the 4th century B.C.E.
If Blemmya are mentioned in Buddhists text we can be sure that Meroites were not ignorant of Kharosthi. This would explain why many of the Meroitic symbols agree with Kharosthi. They agree because some Meroites were probably already literate in Kharosthi due to the influence of Buddhism in the Meroitic Empire.
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Reference:
W. M. Flinders Petrie, The peoples of the Persian Empire, Man (1908) No.71:pp.129-130.
. Check out my video on Buddhism in Ancient Egypt and the Sudan:
Until you learn from Afrocentric researchers you are useless as a future contributor to ancient Black history. Sad.
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Winters. Spare me your quackery and tenuous associations. There is not one mention here of martial arts originating in Egypt, among Buddhists, or among Egyptian Buddhist priests. Also, I disregard Diop's opinion here not because he was black, but because he was wrong.
Going back to the primary sources, and according to the most widely held traditions, Siddhartha was born a prince of Shakya in a small state in Nepal, not Egypt (I mean, have you ever read a book on his life yourself or is Diop your only source?). Not to mention that there are no records of his practicing martial arts or of martial arts being a core element of Buddhism so your intervention here is irrelevant.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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