DNA Tribes Digest for July 2, 2014: Five Continent Core Components in 44 World Regions
This month’s article features an in depth exploration of how ancestral relationships between world populations are expressed by admixture percentages of five continental cores identified by the new DNA Tribes® SNP Update.
Background: Deep Ancestry Expressed in Five Isolated Clusters
Five Core Components in African Regions Five Core Components in European Regions Five Core Components in West Asian Regions Five Core Components in Indian Subcontinent Regions Five Core Components in North Eurasian Regions Five Core Components in Asian-Pacific Regions Five Core Components in Native American Regions Conclusion: Five Core Components in 44 World Regions
Q: Is DNA Tribes proprietary method of analysis available elsewhere?
No. Some forensic calculators use the CODIS STR markers used for DNA Tribes genetic ancestry analysis. However, these calculators use forensic match calculations that are inappropriate for genetic ancestry analysis. DNA Tribes analysis is based on a unique genetic ancestry analysis developed by Dr. Eduardas Valaitis (Ph.D. in Statistics, Yale University 2005). DNA Tribes patented genetic ancestry analysis is available exclusively through DNA Tribes. U.S. PAT. NO. 8,285,486.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: So disregard their Amarna and Ramesses III reports ?
What has the Amarna and Ramesses III reports to, do with this?
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Was not based on DNAtribes data. Was based on replicable material published in standard journals that anyone could see the data and process it as I did.
The subject post material is hidden from public scrutiny and is not scientific it is proprietary.
Accept it as valid science at your own risk.
Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
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^^^ That's stupid and retarded even coming from a well known undercover racist on this forum. DNA Tribes used the data from the JAMA and BMJ studies which are both peer-reviewed. Anybody with access to population database can verify that the STR profile of the mummies are indeed more prevalent in the Southern, Great Lakes and Western African populations. Ramses III was also determined to be E1b1a by the BMJ study, which is also an haplogroup prevalent in the same modern African regions where their STR profiles is more prevalent as cited above.
The reason why Tukuler is saying that is because he doesn't like the results. According to those results the Ancient Egyptians mummies were not like Berbers, modern North Africans or any proxy eurasian population but by black Africans, sub-Sahara Africans.
Distribution of E1b1a in Africa: - Rosa 2007
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"As a consequence the many invasions of ancient Egypt, the population has changed over the years. There were Hyksos (Heka Khasut) from Asia, who melted into the Delta Region around 1500 B.C.E., and then a series of invasions by the Assyrians, Persians and Greeks. With the arrival of large groups of Arabians in the seventh century C.E., the racial character of Egypt began to change.
The resultant mixtures of Africans, Arabs, Greeks and Persians were to be jointed with Turks, Russians, Albanians, British, and French to create a different population that there had been during the ancient times.
One cannot say that today's Egypt is the same as the Egypt of antiquity anymore than one can say that today's North America is the same as it was 5000 years ago." - From The Oxford Encyclopedia of African Thought, Volume 1 (2010)
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
If I don't like the results why did I post vindication?
You're the one who verifies based on "I am pleased."
Unlike the sales add for their kits DNAtribes had nothing to do with the Pharaoh's data.
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler posted December 28, 2011 08:07 PM:
Had a connection bug. Let's try this again now.
Careful!
DNAtribes' Digest Jan 2012 01 01 Table 1 doesn't give frequencies.
It lists proprietary average MLI (MatchLikelihoodIndex) scores
Freq and MLI must bear some relationship but that info is withheld.
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popSTR is compatible w/MiniFiler.
To simulate DNAtribes regions I used 5 population sets
Kenya (Bantu NE)
Namibia (San) + South Africa (Bantu)
Senegal (Mandenka)
Yoruba (Nigeria)
Algeria (Mzabi)
popSTR Db is nowhere near as robust as DNAtribes Db but will suit the purpose of example to show the MiniFiler 8 STR haplotypes can and do validly delineate geographies and ethnies
Use CTL+ to enlarge the captures for pair values and bar graph comparison.
It's tedious but one can
select any mummy
note its 8 loci's pair values
match them to popSTRs results
Using Tut for example we find the pooled Southern African set as perfect a match as our tool allows. And since the haplotypes match for all given alleles we don't need to check frequencies for the most likely match. If we want to complete the ranking for all five sets we'd have to take highest frequencies of matching alleles into consideration.
And no, the science is NOT this crude.
PS this board's nested listing sucks!
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quote:Originally posted by Tukuler posted December 30, 2011 04:30 PM:
popSTR is compatible w/MiniFiler.
Let's use 3 major geographic population sets
Africa (including Mzab)
Europe
South West Asia
popSTR Db is nowhere near as robust as DNAtribes Db but will suit the purpose of example to show the MiniFiler 8 STR haplotypes can and do validly delineate geographies and ethnies
Using the same algorithm as before we
select a mummy
note its 8 loci's pair values
match them to popSTRs results
Using Tut for example we find the pooled African set as perfect a match as our tool allows. And since the haplotypes match for all given alleles we don't need to check frequencies for the most likely match. If we want complete ranking for all three sets we'd have to take the highest frequencies of matching alleles into consideration noting where gaps are insignificant. But here we can see by simple matching that Europe is likelier than SW Asia though the latter has more of the highest frequencies for some loci's alleles. And no, the science is NOT that crude.
As with our earlier comparison of DNAtribes' MLIs against popSTR's results we find the allele pairs of two loci to be decisive in a one to one match of Tut's mummy to a specific population. They are
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri posted January 04, 2012 04:11 PM:
Hb S can be informative of either African or Indian ancestry. Hb S can pinpoint a particular African region, either greater SW Nigeria region (Benin haplotype), greater Sene-Gambian W.Africa region (Senegal haplotype), greater central Africa (Bantu haplotype) or the Cameroon locality (Cameroon haplotype). See the thread African, or Near Eastern and Southern European connections via HbS.
Adapted from Ragusa et al 1990
Which haplotype did the pre-dynastic mummies have and did Tut have sickle cell or did he succumb to malaria?
LMAO!
i thought TUT had the Benin sickle cell which seems to be inexistant in Southern Africa?
Hb S and miniSTRs are different types of informative DNA. Modern Egyptians mainly have Benin Hb S and that fact is extrapolated to ancient Egyptians and hence Tut.
One must know how to read DNAtribes Table 1 MLIs if one wishes to comment on or apply its information. It tells us Tut most likely matches Southern Africa and the African Great Lakes but it does not exclude Tropical West Africa the 3rd likeliest match.
Tut's Tropical West Africa MLI score is 314. That's higher than both the SA and AGL scores for Amenhotep III. It exceeds all mummies' Southern Africa scores except Thuya's. It exceeds all mummies' African Great Lakes scores except Akhenaton's.
popSTR shows actual population frequencies with Tut's miniSTR alleles * D13S317=12 is of high frequency in TWA * D2S1338=16,26 of high frequency in TWA * D18S51=19 is of high frequency in TWA
Tut has 4 TWA high freq alleles including two allele pairs. Tut having Benin Hb S only agrees with miniSTR. They both are mutually supportive.
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You keep shitting your pants on this because you can not find and post anything by me remotely like
Ancient Egyptians were like Berbers, modern North Africans or any proxy eurasian population
In fact, as every non-newbie here knows I'm the guy who showed AE's called themselves black classifying themselves with blacks along the Nile.
quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate: Distribution of E1b1a in Africa: - Rosa 2007 [/QB]
This is not the distribution of E1b1a you dumb ass liar. SMH. Your error could be chalked up as a trivial misrepresentation were it not for the fact that your political vested interests are driving you to make these "errors" which conveniently align with phuckups you're known to revert back to some time after you've been forced to retract them. Your posts officially need 24/7 fact-checking. You're habitually full of sh!t.
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
E-M2 is E1b1a (formerly E3a)
Figure 3. African spatial distribution of haplogroup E3a-M2. Frequency scale (in percentage) is shown on the left. Data according to population datasets described in Additional files 3 and 4.
quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate: Distribution of E1b1a in Africa: - Rosa 2007
This is not the distribution of E1b1a you dumb ass liar. SMH. Your error could be chalked up as a trivial misrepresentation were it not for the fact that your political vested interests are driving you to make these "errors" which conveniently align with phuckups you're known to revert back to some time after you've been forced to retract them. Your posts officially need 24/7 fact-checking. You're habitually full of sh!t.
Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
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^ARTU is one to talk about someone else "not liking the results". ARTU has been caught red-handed several times now trying to divorce East African E-M329 out of E1b1a, making it seem as if E1b1a necessarily pin-points E-M2. No doubt to savour his politically motivated "Egyptians were South African/Great Lakes" wet dream.
quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra the Ultimate: he reason why Tukuler is saying that is because he doesn't like the results.
^Not sure I agree with those E-M329 frequencies (or what on earth "E-PN2 */M329" is supposed to mean), but some of it is definitely E-M329.
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^^That's a lie. I certainly don't try to separate East Africans from West and other Africans (including Ancient Egyptians).
All the contrary as both East and West African in particular, as well as AEians most probably considering current research, share a common origin and are linked through the E and E-P2 haplogroups as well as the MtDNA L haplogroups for example.
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While Ramses III was determined to be E1b1a, other kings may be from E1b1b (brother haplogroup to E1b1a through the common E-P2 grandfather) as well as other E, A, B haplogroups. Considering current genetic and archaeological knowledge, probably only a minority would be from non-African haplogroups.
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You're a known liar. First you said several times that Ramses III's hg was E-M2 per Hawass et al 2012, then you posted a map of E-M2 as representing Ramses III's E1b1a distribution, which you also did several times. In several such instances where you were caught red-handed, you've been confronted regarding your deliberate, politically motivated omissions and distortions. Yet you still perpetuate this lie with a passion.
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:
While Ramses III was determined to be E1b1a, other kings may be from E1b1b (brother haplogroup to E1b1a through the common E-P2 grandfather) as well as other E, A, B haplogroups. Considering current genetic and archaeological knowledge, probably only a minority would be from non-African haplogroups.
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Pure speculation on your part but yes those late Libyan dynasties pharaohs could have E1b1b.
I seriously doubt legitimate bio-ethnic kings from Dynasty 00 through Dynasty 20 having non-African nrY.
Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
quote:Originally posted by Swenet:
^Not sure I agree with those E-M329 frequencies (or what on earth "E-PN2 */M329" is supposed to mean), but some of it is definitely E-M329.
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Surely the frequencies from the graph maker's sources 1-6 are seriously down level but I'd trust 7&8 unless they just relied on 'the literature'.
With time greater sampling is liable to yield more accurate results. But if a given population hasn't been sampled since 2000-2005 what to do?
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While Ramses III was determined to be E1b1a, other kings may be from E1b1b (brother haplogroup to E1b1a through the common E-P2 grandfather) as well as other E, A, B haplogroups. Considering current genetic and archaeological knowledge, probably only a minority would be from non-African haplogroups.
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Pure speculation on your part but yes those late Libyan dynasties pharaohs could have E1b1b.
I seriously doubt legitimate bio-ethnic kings from Dynasty 00 through Dynasty 20 having non-African nrY.
It's educated speculations. There's always some, at the very least, very minimal admixtures between neighboring populations (maybe more in modern time due to the ease of transportation, population size, etc). That's a fact. Even if you discount foreign invading kings and people like the Hyksos (Aamu) born elsewhere. Uniparental DNA like Y-DNA only gives a small part of the full genome. So it's highly probably that some foreign haplogroups at a very minimal level (the same could be said about Ancient Greeks for example) have been introduced in AE. Of course, the Aamu dynasty is one of such moment, but also traders, and more peaceful or not immigrations (often wandering asian nomads, including thieves, etc). Still, those indigenous kings would probably be genetically closer to African people than European or West Asian autosomally. Most of the Ancient Egyptian Kings and people would carry African haplogroups of course (Y-DNA:A, B, E. MtDNA: L).
While it may have been fake results posted by Beyoku, the haplogroup distribution of some Old and New Kingdom in this thread gives a general idea of how I see it. That is mostly African haplogroups with some very minimal introgression from foreign haplogroups. Of course, it would also be true for any ancient kingdoms like Ancient Greece, Roman republic and empire, etc, even if it's not discussed much.
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While Ramses III was determined to be E1b1a, other kings may be from E1b1b (brother haplogroup to E1b1a through the common E-P2 grandfather) as well as other E, A, B haplogroups. Considering current genetic and archaeological knowledge, probably only a minority would be from non-African haplogroups.
.
Pure speculation on your part but yes those late Libyan dynasties pharaohs could have E1b1b.
I seriously doubt legitimate bio-ethnic kings from Dynasty 00 through Dynasty 20 having non-African nrY.
It's educated speculations. There's always some, at the very least, very minimal admixtures between neighboring populations (maybe more in modern time due to the ease of transportation, population size, etc). That's a fact. Even if you discount foreign invading kings and people like the Hyksos (Aamu) born elsewhere. Uniparental DNA like Y-DNA only gives a small part of the full genome. So it's highly probably that some foreign haplogroups at a very minimal level (the same could be said about Ancient Greeks for example) have been introduced in AE. Of course, the Aamu dynasty is one of such moment, but also traders, and more peaceful or not immigrations (often wandering asian nomads, including thieves, etc). Still, those indigenous kings would probably be genetically closer to African people than European or West Asian autosomally. Most of the Ancient Egyptian Kings and people would carry African haplogroups of course (Y-DNA:A, B, E. MtDNA: L).
While it may have been fake results posted by Beyoku, the haplogroup distribution of some Old and New Kingdom in this thread gives a general idea of how I see it. That is mostly African haplogroups with some very minimal introgression from foreign haplogroups. Of course, it would also be true for any ancient kingdoms like Ancient Greece, Roman republic and empire, etc, even if it's not discussed much.
Why did (does) it stop at Hg E yDNA and L mtDNA?
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
I wrote I seriously doubt legitimate bio-ethnic kings from Dynasty 00 through Dynasty 20 having non-African nrY.
There are clear cut criteria yet ARtU who follows the Hamitic Hypothesis and Caucasian North & East Africa pushes them aside in favor of foreign invaders
ARtU loves equate foreign intruders as legitimate land right holders of parcels of Africa (scott). Now he imagines what the AE's themselves called interlopers usurpers of no AE blood, as kings of pharaonic haplogroups. No matter their rule was only over the northernmost parts of the nation and disputed its full tenure.
As much as expected from a two year ES undergrad (we no do assoc degree).
Facts at my disposal lead me to posit serious doubt that * legitimate * bio-ethnic * kings * from Dynasty 00 through Dynasty 20 * have any non-African nrY.
King lists and origins of most pre-21st dynasties are readily available. Which, of either, fit the criteria and would harbor ARtU's non-African Eurasian nrY haplogroups?
Sounds like a TC novel where a legitimizing queen is supposed to be of such low ethics as to entertain strayf Eurasian dick and expects to get away with presenting hubby king with a Eurasian bastard child and the fool never suspecting nor the palace intriquers ever snitching.
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^^^ I stand by what I said. Common sense and knowledge of Ancient Egyptian history (West Asian desert nomads, traders and immigrants, Hyksos/Aamu dynasty, etc) dictates neighboring population always admix with each other at a minimal level (although much more so in modern times due to the ease of transportation, etc). Even Ancient Greeks or Romans probably have some African and West Asians genes in minimal fashion. For example, Albert Einstein is from the African E haplogroup even though he's Jewish. Autosomally most of them would still cluster closer to their own people like the autosomal STR of the Ancient Egyptian mummies (Great Lakes, Southern, West Africans). Most of Ancient Egyptians, according to current genetic and archeological results, will also be from African haplogroups (Ydna:A,B,E, MtDNA:L) like Ramses III with E1b1a.
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: E-M2 is E1b1a (formerly E3a)
Figure 3. African spatial distribution of haplogroup E3a-M2. Frequency scale (in percentage) is shown on the left. Data according to population datasets described in Additional files 3 and 4.
quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate: Distribution of E1b1a in Africa: - Rosa 2007
This is not the distribution of E1b1a you dumb ass liar. SMH. Your error could be chalked up as a trivial misrepresentation were it not for the fact that your political vested interests are driving you to make these "errors" which conveniently align with phuckups you're known to revert back to some time after you've been forced to retract them. Your posts officially need 24/7 fact-checking. You're habitually full of sh!t.
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: ^ARTU is one to talk about someone else "not liking the results". ARTU has been caught red-handed several times now trying to divorce East African E-M329 out of E1b1a, making it seem as if E1b1a necessarily pin-points E-M2. No doubt to savour his politically motivated "Egyptians were South African/Great Lakes" wet dream.
quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra the Ultimate: he reason why Tukuler is saying that is because he doesn't like the results.
^Not sure I agree with those E-M329 frequencies (or what on earth "E-PN2 */M329" is supposed to mean), but some of it is definitely E-M329.
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Don't know who's a deliberate liar or merely ignorantly mistaken.
In any case while the above Rosa (2007) map indeed shows M2 it doesn't show E1b1a. It shows E1b1a1 per what is afaik the latest E phylogeny. So when something like Athey Predictor says E1b1a it could be any tip of the V38/V100 branch not E-M2 alone.
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