posted
Abstract The human genetic diversity around the world was studied through several high variable genetic markers. In South America the demic consequences of admixture events between Native people, European colonists and African slaves???b] have been displayed by uniparental markers variability. The mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) has been the most widely used genetic marker for studying American mixed populations, although nuclear markers, such as [b]microsatellite loci (STRs) commonly used in forensic science, showed to begenetically and geographically structured. In this work, we analyzed DNA from buccal swab samples of 296 individuals across Peru: 156 Native Amazons (Ashaninka, Cashibo and Shipibo from Ucayali, Huambiza from Loreto and Moche from Lambayeque) and 140 urban Peruvians from Lima and other 33 urban areas. The aim was to evaluate, through STRs and mtDNA variability, recent migrations in urban Peruvian populations and to gain more information about their continental ancestry. STR data highlighted that most individuals (67%) of the urban Peruvian sample have a strong similarity to the Amazon Native population, whereas 22% have similarity to African populations and only ~1% to European populations. Also the maternally-transmitted mtDNA confirmed the strong Native contribution (~90% of Native American haplogroups) and the lower frequencies of African (~6%) and European (~3%) haplogroups. This study provides a detailed description of the urban Peruvian genetic structure and proposes forensic STRs as a useful tool for studying recent migrations, especially when coupled with mtDNA. Xyyman comment: So Peruvians are 22% African by STR but 6% African by mtDNA. Maybe they should rethink what is an African mtDNA.
Abstract The subsequent human migrations that dispersed out of Africa, both prehistoric and historic and colonization of India by modern humans is unanimous, and phylogeny of major mitochondrial DNA haplogroups have played a key role in assessing the genetic origin of people of India. To address more such events, complete mitogenomes of 113 Melakudiya tribe of Southern India were sequenced and 46 individuals showed the presence of west Eurasian autochthonous haplogroups HV14 and U7. Phylogenetic analysis revealed two novel subclades HV14a1b and HV14a1b1 and sequences representing haplogroup U7 were included under previously described subclade U7a3a1a2* specific to India. Moreover, the present analysis on complete mtDNA reveals addition information of the spread and distribution of west Eurasian haplogroups in southern India, in tracing an unexplored genetic link between Melakudiya tribe with the people of Iranian Plateau, South Caucasus, and Central Asia. Coalescence ages of HV14 and U7a3a1a2* trees in the present study dates ~ 16.1 ± 4.3 and ~ 13.4 ± 5.6 kya respectively. Xyyman comment: What is “west Eurasian”?
Abstract European genetic gradients of modern humans were initially interpreted as a consequence of the demic diffusion of expanding Neolithic farmers. However, recent studies showed that these gradients may also be influenced by other evolutionary processes such as population admixture or range contractions. Genetic gradients were observed in the Americas, although their specific evolutionary causes were not investigated. Here we extended the approach used to study genetic gradients in Europe to analyze the influence of diverse evolutionary scenarios on American genetic gradients. Using extensive computer simulations, we evaluated the impact of (i) admixture between expansion waves of modern humans, (ii) the presence of ice-sheets during the last glacial maximum (LGM) and (iii) long-distance dispersal (LDD) events, on the genetic gradients (detected by principal component analysis) of the entire continent, North America and South America. The specific simulation of North and South America showed that genetic gradients are usually orthogonal to the direction of range expansions—either expansions from Bering or posterior re-expansions to recolonize northern regions after ice sheets melting—and we suggest that they result from allele surfing processes. Conversely, our results on the entire continent show a northwest-southeast gradient obtained with any scenario, which we interpreted as a consequence of isolation by distance along the long length of the continent. These findings suggest that distinct genetic gradients can be detected at different regions of the Americas and that subcontinent regions present gradients more sensible to evolutionary and environmental factors (such as LDD and the LGM) than the whole continent. Xyyman comment: I never knew there was a south to North gradient. Combined with that Peruvian paper it is beginning to look like the Americas was also populated from the south also and not only from the Bering strait
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W3 W3a W3a1: found especially in central and eastern Europe and in the Indian subcontinent W3a1a: found in central and northern Europe
HV HV0 and V HV1 : found in Ukraine, Italy, Israel, Armenia, North Africa, Yemen, Ethiopia and Somalia HV1a'b'c HV1a
Haplogroup HV is found mainly in Western Asia, Southern Europe, Eastern Europe and North Africa.
In Africa, the clade peaks among Egyptians inhabiting El-Hayez oasis (14.3%).[4] The haplogroup is, however, generally more frequent toward the northwest, with the HV0 subclade occurring among Mozabite Berbers (8.24%),[5] Libyans (7.4%),[6] Reguibate Sahrawi (6.48%),[5] Zenata Berbers (5.48%),[5] and Algerians (4.84% total; 2.15%-3.75% in Oran).
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posted
xyyman purposely leaves out the title of the article, why should there be a thread like that with no article title ?
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: [QB] Abstract The human genetic diversity around the world was studied through several high variable genetic markers. In South America the demic consequences of admixture events between Native people, European colonists and [b]African slaves???b]
why did you put a question mark here? Does it mean you don't know anything about the African diaspora?
The article states:
quote: by XVIII century more than a third of the Lima's population included slaves, mainly Africans
wikipedia
Over the course of the slave trade, approximately 95,000 slaves were brought into Peru, with the last group arriving in 1850.
Peru is considered to have the seventh largest Black African population in the western hemisphere, following Brazil, Haiti, the United States, Canada, Colombia and Ecuador.
The first Africans arrived with the conquistadors in 1521, mostly as slaves, and some returned with colonists to settle in 1525. Between 1529 and 1537, when Francisco Pizarro was granted permits to import 363 slaves to colonial Peru, a large group of Africans were imported to do labor for public construction, building bridges and road systems. They also fought alongside the conquistadors as soldiers and worked as personal servants and bodyguards. In 1533 Afro-Peruvian slaves accompanied Spaniards in the conquest of Cuzco
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by the lioness,: [] [QUOTE]Originally posted by xyyman: [Q] Abstract The human genetic diversity around the world was studied through several high variable genetic markers. In South America the demic consequences of admixture events between Native people, European colonists and []African slaves???b] []why did you put a question mark here? Does it mean you don't know anything about the African diaspora?
The article states:
[QUOTE] by XVIII century more than a third of the Lima's population included slaves, mainly Africans [OTE]wikipedia
Over the course of the slave trade, approximately 95,000 slaves were brought into Peru, with the last group arriving in 1850.
Peru is considered to have the seventh largest Black African population in the western hemisphere, following Brazil, Haiti, the United States, Canada, Colombia and Ecuador.
The first Africans arrived with the conquistadors in 1521, mostly as slaves, and some returned with colonists to settle in 1525. Between 1529 and 1537, when Francisco Pizarro was granted permits to import 363 slaves to colonial Peru, a large group of Africans were imported to do labor for public construction, building bridges and road systems. They also fought alongside the conquistadors as soldiers and worked as personal servants and bodyguards. In 1533 Afro-Peruvian slaves accompanied Spaniards in the conquest of Cuzco [Q]/QUOTE]
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posted
I will get the article title shortly. But you can google it…
My Point is that these authors do NOT know what they are looking at. None of these mtDNA are uniquely “European”. In addition they did not post data on “non-urban” populations. If they did….it may debunk their hypothesis. Again my point. The history books are filled with lies. …written by Europeans. There is no European haplogroup identified. In addition there were some unexpected haplogroups like M7c and W3a1. Again Europeans stealing mtDNA Haplgroups that is NOT theirs. They did not post the non-urban ie indigenees genetic results.
“Signs of continental ancestry in urban populations of Peru through autosomal STR loci and mitochondrial DNA typing - Francesco Messina”
Also the authors were trying to be deceptive with S1 Fig. Why is it in black and white and not colored? I have never seen that before! The point of admixture charts… is the COLORS… to show admixture. Interestingly Both the “natives” and mixed in the cities show MORE African related SNPs or at least in common with Africans, K2. At K3 it is difficult to see what is going on there.
So...were Africans in the Americas BEFORE Europeans?
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: "mostly". So the rest were....?
mercenaries
At least three thousand Africans participated in the conquest of Peru. These figures do not count the numerous Africans taken through unofficial channels. The first Africans from Spain were known as ladinos, or hispanicized Africans, and were soldiers, servants, settlers, and slaves. African men and women were part of a number of Spanish expeditions. The Panfilo de Narvaez Expedition of 1528 from Cuba to Florida is one such example. This expedition included Esteban, perhaps the most notable African male to aid in the exploration of North America.
The Coronado Expedition of 1540 to Southwestern North America included a free African man who later served as an interpreter and would eventually become a Franciscan friar. The Juan Guerra de Resa Expedition of 1600 included African soldiers, their mulatto wives and children, and Isabel de Olvera, a mulatta woman. These are just three examples of the many expeditions which included Africans and African Americans among their members.
Sixteenth century conquistadors of African and Afro-Hispanic American descent, hereafter referred to as “black conquistadors,” were as much a part of the exploration of the Americas as their Spanish counterparts. Many people of African descent used military service as a means to emancipation and inclusion into Spanish society. As the numbers of expeditions increased and the people within Spanish America began to settle, the need to secure the land and the riches associated with it grew as well. Black conquistadors figured prominently in the securing of these lands.
As a result of their military successes, some black conquistadors were awarded land grants and special recognition, with Chile being the only country in which black conquistadors received encomiendas. Juan Garrido is one example of a black conquistador who accompanied Ponce de Leon on his Caribbean expeditions as well as Hernan Cortes in Mexico. Garrido, born in West Africa, participated in the conquests of Puerto Rico, Cuba, Guadalupe, Dominica and Florida. In his lifetime he was a resident of Puerto Rico, Mexico City and Cuernavaca and occupied the post of doorkeeper (portero) and crier (pregonero). Eventually, through the probanza or petitionary proof of merit, Juan would be given a house plot but he was never granted a position in the new city of Mexico other than those typically occupied by blacks
posted
As You know, I am not a history buff. Not my thing But, is that midget? Lol! Is that portrait authentic? Looks like it was painted with Crayola? Seriously, you are missing the point. There is virtually no European women represented here, the author is lying! Why didn’t they publish results of the indigenees? We have seen Native Americana and Oceanian ancestry in West Africa.
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: As You know, I am not a history buff.
All of this genetic anthropology articles include history So if you were to say " what the hell is this slaves in Peru ? That's got to be lie, Brazil yes but Peru ???"
In 5 seconds you could have looked it up and not have had to be a "history buff"
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Not my thing But, is that midget? Lol! Is that portrait authentic?
If you see a badly drawn illustration that has nothing to do with authenticity. Sometimes people who did not have much art training made pictures
source:
Fray Diego Durán, História de las Indias de Nueva España e Islas de la Tierra Firme, 1581. Illustrations on pages 413, 416.
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: There is virtually no European women represented here, the author is lying!
why would there be and more importantly why are you even asking that question?
Are we supposed to read your mind?
From the earliest years, Spanish soldiers and colonists intermarried with the indigenous women. The Spanish officers and elite married into the Inca elite, and other matches were made among other classes. A sizeable portion of the Peruvian population is mestizo, of indigenous and European ancestry, speaking Spanish, generally Roman Catholic, and assimilated as the majority culture.
quote:
STR data highlighted that most individuals (67%) of the urban Peruvian sample have a strong similarity to the Amazon Native population, whereas 22% have similarity to African populations and only ~1% to European populations.
why are you asking about European women?
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posted
I think the peruvian paper is interesting but not for other reasons... If ED/BBH, T-Hotep or Beyoku is around, I would like to read your thoughts
quote:[..] In the 3 K model, the - Native Amazon individuals were characterized by only one main component shared with urban Peruvian populations, which was very rare or absent in the two source populations (US Europeans and US Africans). On the other hand, urban Peruvians showed a strong heterogeneity; in fact, on the Native American background an African component was also present,- especially in the Lima sample. The strength of the Native component was already evident in the 2 K model
The model highlighted an association between some clusters and the populations under study (Fig 4). Specifically, Native Amazon individuals were found typically within cluster 5, US Africans within clusters 2 and 3, while US Europeans in cluster 1. Cluster 4 seems not to be associated with specific populations. Cluster 5 contains most Native Amazon (77.2% - 100%) and urban Peruvian individuals (33.3% - 72%), while individuals of the source populations were almost absent. Clusters 2 and 3 clearly marked individuals belonging to the US African sample (27% for cluster 2 and 42.1% for cluster 3). It is worth noticing that many urban and few Native Peruvian individuals fall into African clusters 2 and 3. Instead, cluster 1 is almost exclusive of US Europeans, and only one individual from Lima was found in this cluster. At last, the origin of cluster 4 remained unknown and probably it could be attributed to mixed individuals between source populations
Too bad their isn't Y-str/haplogroup data to show if there was paternal contribution to compensate for the discrepancy between Mtdna and autosmal clustering however this small scaled but detailed paper might be telling (in a precolumbian kind of way) Not to mention the M1a, (found in an Abusir sample) which found its way to the natives.
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Mitochondrial B4b (which is sometimes labelled B2) not to be confused with African Y DNA B is one of five haplogroups found among the indigenous peoples of the Americas, the others being A, C, D, and X.
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quote:Originally posted by Elmaestro: Too bad their isn't Y-str/haplogroup data to show if there was paternal contribution to compensate for the discrepancy between Mtdna and autosmal clustering however this small scaled but detailed paper might be telling (in a precolumbian kind of way) Not to mention the M1a, (found in an Abusir sample) which found its way to the natives.
the article states
quote: STR data highlighted that most individuals (67%) of the urban Peruvian sample have a strong similarity to the Amazon Native population, whereas 22% have similarity to African populations
Is it correct to interpret that as
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Peruvians are 22% African by STR
posted
So the Ydna doesn't make up for the differences... great. I seems like the african presence in south america particularly western regions can be further explored.
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posted
Will these Europeans stop their lies, and/or distortion, so we can get a true picture of what really went down in pre-historical times?
FYI – “SSA” in this instance is some ethnic group in Guinea Bissau??
“discrepancy between Mtdna and autosmal clustering however this small scaled but detailed paper might be telling (in a precolumbian kind of way) Not to mention the M1a,”
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quote:Originally posted by Elmaestro: [QB] So the Ydna doesn't make up for the differences..
what do you mean?
Previously, to my knowledge South Americans particularly on the western coast had more African MTDNA uniparentals than Y-DNA. So when I see that peruvians in particular have a decent range of African Affinity but only a portion of that worth of Mthaps it calls into question, how this African Affinity was obtained and how recent.
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quote:Originally posted by Elmaestro: [QB] So the Ydna doesn't make up for the differences..
what do you mean?
Previously, to my knowledge South Americans particularly on the western coast had more African MTDNA uniparentals than Y-DNA. So when I see that peruvians in particular have a decent range of African Affinity but only a portion of that worth of Mthaps it calls into question, how this African Affinity was obtained and how recent.
quote:
Genet Mol Biol. 2016 Oct-Dec; 39(4): 573–579. Published online 2016 Aug 4. doi: 10.1590/1678-4685-GMB-2015-0273 PMCID: PMC5127147 PMID: 27561109
Uniparental ancestry markers in Chilean populations
Camilla Dutra Vieira-Machado,
A high Native American matrilineal contribution and a low Native American and African patrilineal contributions were found in all three studied regions. As previously found in Chilean admixed populations, the Native American matrilineal contribution was lower in Santiago than in the other studied regions.
As shown in Table 4, the YAP insertion average frequency was at 8.7%, showing low contribution of African ancestry in the patrilineage, as previously observed for the Native American ancestry estimated by DYS199 locus. There was also no significant difference in the frequency of this insertion among the studied communes (χ2 = 7.18, DF = 6, p=0.3042).
In this study, a low African patrilineal contribution, ranging from 2.3% to 14%, and a low frequency of the DYS199T allele (8,5%, indicating low Native American contribution) are suggestive of a mostly European patrilineal origin for the Chilean population studied, as highlighted by Cifuentes et al. (2004) in the Santiago population.
quote:
Mol Genet Genomic Med. 2016 Jan; 4(1): 9–17. Published online 2015 Dec 21. doi: 10.1002/mgg3.192 PMCID: PMC4707029 PMID: 26788533 Genetics and genomic medicine in Ecuador
César Paz‐y‐Miño,
In 2010, 71.9% of Ecuadorians self‐identify as Mestizos, 6.1% as white, 7% as Amerindians, and 7.2% as African descendants.
The Ecuadorian population originates from a complex mixture of a large number of Amerindian tribes, Africans and Europeans (Baeta et al. 2013). It is marked by historic migratory and colonization events that created population bottlenecks and from a genetic standpoint have influenced genetic flow and genetic drift (Raff et al. 2011; Paz‐y‐Miño and Burgos Figueroa 2015).
Analysis of Y‐chromosome DNA in Mestizos show the Q1a3a haplogroup, shared by all South American Amerindians, and three other haplogroups, R1b, E1b1b, and TE, commonly found in European and African men, respectively (Gaviria et al. 2013). Mitochondrial DNA studies begin with the analysis of the Cytochrome b gene in Mestizos, Native American, Cholos, and African‐Americans, relating common polymorphisms to the possible origin of each population (Paz‐y‐Miño et al. 2008a). It is clear that the mitochondrial contribution came primarily from Amerindian women, with varying frequencies of specific haplotypes depending on the population (Baeta et al. 2012). The case is not that easy when discussing markers involving the nuclear genome. STR analysis of autosomic markers showed 73% were of Amerindian origin, 19% European, and 8% African (González‐Andrade et al. 2007); whereas Y chromosome markers showed over 70% of European, 22% Amerindian, and 2% African contribution in Mestizos (González‐Andrade et al. 2007; Gaviria et al. 2013).
Chileans no
Ecudorians yes, a little (+6% Matrilineal African vs Y)
quote:
BMC Genomics. 2015; 16(1): 131. Published online 2015 Feb 25. doi: 10.1186/s12864-015-1339-1 PMCID: PMC4422311 PMID: 25887241 Genomic insights on the ethno-history of the Maya and the ‘Ladinos’ from Guatemala
Jens Söchtig,#
In contrast to the significant Native American and European ancestry of Guatemalans, the average African component is very low in Guatemala, and it appears almost exclusively in ‘Ladinos’ (3.6%). There was only one Maya who shows a moderate percentage of African co-ancestry (4.4%). This subject (#LaTinta_08, female) is of self-described Q’eqchi’ ancestry and carries a Native American mtDNA haplotype (B2t). This percentage of African ancestry in this Q’eqchi’ individual could simply mirror the variability of ancestry estimates using panels of AIMs containing a limited amount of SNPs [70], and not necessarily a real African genome ancestry.
Although African slaves arrived in Guatemala in the period between the VI and XVII century to replace the indigenous population as a labor force [72], our data indicate that the African genetic legacy in Guatemala is very low, and this agrees well with the documentation indicating the few amount of slaves arriving directly to the country. This is in contrast to other American populations, e.g. in Colombia [25], Brazil [73] and the Caribbean [63], but is in agreement with the patterns observed in El Salvador [26], which has no coast in the Caribbean (Guatemala has also limited contact with the Caribbean sea and even today, the country has difficult access through this coast). As shown by the admixture analysis based on AIMs, African ancestry is higher for ‘Ladinos’ (3.6%) than for the Maya (virtually 0%). The results as a whole are also in good agreement with the census: in modern-day Guatemala, ‘Afro-Guatemalan’ individuals comprise only ~1% of the total population
posted
Guys!!!! The numbers don’t add up. Iberia has the highest frequency of mtDNA H in all of Europe. Today less than 1% of Peruvians(Lima) has mtDNA H. In fact those haplogroups labeled as European are NOT European. So, did the white women got exterminated by their white men. Lioness posted that European women was part of the majority back in the 1600. Today, that is NOT the case. African lineage is by far dominant over “European” lineage. So what happened to those white women? In fact to the Cluster Chart. @K2 Africans and Native Americans share more similarity. Are they labelling Africans as whites back in the 1600’s?.
But more importantly THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM.!!!! What is Oceanian haplogroups doing in West Africa? What is Native American (Peruvian?) ancestry doing in the heart of Africa? I am telling you….OOA is more recent that we are led to believe. The migration paths is not what it seems.
BTW – that data set was “unpublished” until recently per the author on West Africans carrying Oceanian haplogroups. What else are they sitting on?
“discrepancy between Mtdna and autosmal clustering however this small scaled but detailed paper might be telling (in a precolumbian kind of way) Not to mention the M1a,” [/QB][/QUOTE]
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Peru The Inca Empire, or Inka Empire (Quechua: Tawantinsuyu), was the largest empire in pre-Columbian America. The administrative, political and military center of the empire was located in Cusco in modern-day Peru. The Inca civilization arose from the highlands of Peru sometime in the early 13th century.
Cuzco was the center of the Incan empire. The Incas, an American Indian people, were originally a small tribe in the southern highlands of Peru. In less than a century, during the 1400s, they built one of the largest, most tightly controlled empires the world has ever known.
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posted
Can you pick out the bull shyte? How many UNPUBLISHED data sets are out there. Here yDNA R-V88 is spread all through-out Africa
Internal diversification of non‐Sub‐Saharan haplogroups in Sahelian populations and the spread of pastoralism beyond the Sahara- Iva Kulichová
Abstract Background Today, African pastoralists are found mainly in the Sahel/Savannah belt spanning 6,000 km from west to east, flanked by the Sahara to the north and tropical rainforests to the south. The most significant group among them are the Fulani who not only keep cattle breeds of possible West Eurasian ancestry, but form themselves a gene pool containing some paternally and maternally‐transmitted West Eurasian haplogroups.
Materials and Methods We generated complete sequences for 33 mitogenomes belonging to haplogroups H1 and U5 (23 and 10, respectively), and genotyped 16 STRs in 65 Y chromosomes belonging to haplogroup R1b‐V88.
Results We show that age estimates of the maternal lineage H1cb1, occurring almost exclusively in the Fulani, point to the time when the first cattle herders settled the Sahel/Savannah belt. Similar age estimates were obtained for paternal lineage R1b‐V88, which occurs today in the Fulani but also in other, mostly pastoral populations. Maternal clade U5b1b1b, reported earlier in the Berbers, shows a shallower age, suggesting another possibly independent input into the Sahelian pastoralist gene pool.
Conclusions Despite the fact-really???? that animal domestication originated in the Near East ∼ 10 ka, and that it was from there that animals such as sheep, goats as well as cattle were introduced into Northeast Africa soon thereafter, contemporary cattle keepers in the Sahel/Savannah belt show uniparental genetic affinities that suggest the possibility of an ancient contact with an additional ancestral population of western Mediterranean ancestry.
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posted
So…. Even within this paper they are hiding data(unpublished). 72 R1b discovered but no mention of what the remaining 7 R1b sub-clade is? My guess it is R1b-M269 and it is found through-out the Sahel and further south. That is why it was not mentioned further. oH! mtDNA U5b sub-clade??? Wasn’t that in the Abusirs and the recent study on the AEian mummy?
Quote from the study- “With regard to NRY, we found **72** samples belonging to haplogroup R1b and analyzed all **65** samples belonging to the haplogroup R1b-V88. As opposed to the mtDNA haplogroups H1cb and U5b found in the Fulani and Songhai, R1b-V88 was also distributed throughout other Sahelian populations (3 Fulani from Senegal, 10 Fulani from Niger, 1 Fulani from Cameroon, 1 Fulani from Chad, 6 Daza from Chad, 7 Sudanese Arabs, 6 Shuwa Arabs from Nigeria, 3 Tuareg from Niger, 7 Baggara Arabs from Chad, 4 Maba from Chad and 16 Dangal eat from Chad). In these samples, we genotyped two additional SNPs (V8 and V69) allowing us to discriminate between specific branches of R1b-V88 (Cruciani et al., 2010). SNPs were analyzed by the RFLP method, using primers and restriction enzymes listed in Supporting Information Table S2.”
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: [QB] Did they have help?
Peru The Inca Empire, or Inka Empire (Quechua: Tawantinsuyu), was the largest empire in pre-Columbian America. The administrative, political and military center of the empire was located in Cusco in modern-day Peru. The Inca civilization arose from the highlands of Peru sometime in the early 13th century.
Cuzco was the center of the Incan empire. The Incas, an American Indian people, were originally a small tribe in the southern highlands of Peru. In less than a century, during the 1400s, they built one of the largest, most tightly controlled empires the world has ever known.
Bandurria
Bandurria is a large archaeological site on the Huaura River in Peru going back to 4,000 BC. It is located about 3 km south of the city of Huacho, in Huacho District, Huaura Province, Lima Region. It corresponds chronologically to the period known as the 'Late Archaic' or 'Late preceramic' covering the years from about 4000 to 2000 BC.
In 2007, additional radio-carbon dates have been obtained. According to Alejandro Chu Barrera, the director of the Archaeological Project of Bandurria, the site is now dated firmly to 3200 BC.
There are also other coastal sites in Peru that have been dated very early as the result of recent excavations. They include Sechin Bajo with the oldest radiocarbon dates of 3600 BC, and Huaricanga, dated to about 3500 BC.
___________________________________________
Caral
Caral, or Caral-Chupacigarro, was a large settlement in the Supe Valley, Barranca Province, Peru 120 miiles north of Lima. Caral is the most ancient city of the Americas and a well-studied site of the Norte Chico civilization.
Caral was declared a UNESCO World Heritage Site in 2009.
Caral was inhabited roughly between the 2,600 and 2000 BCE, enclosing an area of more than 60 hectares (150 acres). Caral was described by its excavators as the oldest urban centre in the Americas, a claim that was later challenged as other ancient sites were found nearby, such as Bandurria, Peru.
Caral is the largest recorded site in the Andean region with dates older than 2000 BCE and appears to be the model for the urban design adopted by Andean civilisations that rose and fell over the span of four millennia.
The date of 2627 BCE is based on carbon dating reed and woven carrying bags that were found in situ. These bags were used to carry the stones that were used for the construction of the temples.The site may date even earlier as samples from the oldest parts of the excavation have yet to be dated.[6] The town had a population of approximately 3000 people.
However, the 19 other sites in the area (posted at Caral), allow for a possible total population of 20,000 people for the Supe Valley. All of these sites share similarities with Caral. They had small platforms or stone circles. Shady believes that Caral was the focus of this civilisation, which itself was part of an even vaster complex, trading with the coastal communities
The first pyramid in Egypt was erected during the Third Dynasty by the Pharaoh Djoser and his architect Imhotep. This step pyramid consisted of six stacked mastabas.
Caral Supe
One of 18 urban settlements situated in the same area, Caral features complex and monumental architecture, including six large pyramidal structures
even genetic anthropology articles give historical background. Without it one makes foolish assumptions
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Huh? What assumption am I making? I am only stating FACTS and asking a question. "What is Oceania DNA doing in West Africa and why is Native American DNA also found in Africa"?
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Huh? What assumption am I making? I am only stating FACTS and asking a question. "What is Oceania DNA doing in West Africa and why is Native American DNA also found in Africa"?
you mentioned Cuzco of the 14th c and have a thread titled "Did the Incas have help? " yet are completely ignorant of these other Peruvian civilizations thousands of years earlier
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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That was a quote. I bolded my point. I care for the Incas or any civilization in the Americas as far as if there was African influence. The genetic profile do NOT support the “documented” history …as reported by Europeans. That is my point!
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Huh? What assumption am I making? I am only stating FACTS and asking a question. "What is Oceania DNA doing in West Africa and why is Native American DNA also found in Africa"?
you are not just stating facts, you are accusing people of lies implying conspiracies
1. name Oceania haplogroups found in Africa and list article title showing this
2. name distinctively Native American haplogroups found in Africa and list article title showing this
no fuzzy admixture programs or maps please, DNA hard data haplogroups
keep in mind Oceania haplogroups found in Africa have nothing to do with the Inca, even talking about that is diversion. Native American haplogroups found in Africa? So that would mean Native Americans traveled to Africa to sell cocaine to the Egyptians, is that the conspiracy, that Europeans have overlooked the navigational skills of Native Americans? Say you find a haplogroup in Africa, you have to determine why it is there and importantly what is the significance to your topic that it is there?
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: huh!? someone? Anyone?
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: The genetic profile do NOT support the “documented” history …as reported Europeans. That is my point!
quote:
STR data highlighted that most individuals (67%) of the urban Peruvian sample have a strong similarity to the Amazon Native population, whereas 22% have similarity to African populations and only ~1% to European populations.
What is the problem? State clearly in your own words why the genetic profile does not support the “documented” history reported Europeans.
Over the course of the slave trade, approximately 95,000 slaves were brought into Peru, with the last group arriving in 1850.
^ take a quote out of either of these wikipedia links, say why it's wrong in your own words as per genetics
No, just bolding a million things is not a clearly stated argument.
You ask did the Incas have help implying there was no civilization in the region until 14th c AD, that they didn't know anything until Africans sailed there. Even if wrongly there were no Andean civilizations prior to the Inca who in Africa had similar looking pyramid shaped temples? The Egyptians? So they brought the technology over from Egypt but they forgot to bring hieroglyphs
Where is this help coming from? what region in Africa? People complain of a Greek stolen legacy from Egypt
and you are trying to do the same thing to to the Central and South American civilizations
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Genetic Structure of the Western and Eastern African Sahel/Savannah Belt and the Role of Nomadic Pastoralists as Inferred from the Variation of D-loop mtDNA sequences - Martina Čížková
1. name Oceania haplogroups found in Africa and list article title showing this
[QUOTE]Originally posted by xyyman: huh!? someone? Anyone?
no you
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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So what is the significance of this? Oceanians migrated to Africa ? That's the conspiracy that Europeans are trying to hide but you found it in their articles? Just circle a bunch of stuff and think you are saying somethinG?
Why are we even talking about this in thread about the Incas?
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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FInd a quote about the Inca or Peru on wikipedia and then explain why it's not true
Try your own words. Posting charts made by Europeans, bolding text in articles does not replace you in your own words making a clear point or theory
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Interestingly the Mende keep coming up containing very ANCIENT DNA. Skoglund have them older than the YRI, Taforalt paper have them containing a very old autosomal DNA, They also contain very old OOA uniparental markers linked to Oceanians and Americans.
Iwo-Eleru? Was the migration via the West or via the East to the Americas? I remember seeing documentary on TV several years ago where they talked about the Eastern Seaboard of the US extended several 100 miles into the Atlantic Ocean. Could it be......?
I recently found out that the Indian Ocean is littered with small Islands between Africa and....Australia. Yes, remember Australia was "colonised" first by OOA.
Europeans and their lies probably got this thing all fugked up and twisted with their thirst to make themselves relevant in pre-history!
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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That A2 looks like a squatter from an ancient eastern migration. It might even be a shallow back migration. What's up with N, in Brazil? Why are maps of N so rare? This is the only map of N in Africa.
Posts: 1254 | From: howdy | Registered: Mar 2014
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Interestingly the Mende keep coming up containing very ANCIENT DNA. Skoglund have them older than the YRI, Taforalt paper have them containing a very old autosomal DNA, They also contain very old OOA uniparental markers linked to Oceanians and Americans.
Iwo-Eleru? Was the migration via the West or via the East to the Americas? I remember seeing documentary on TV several years ago where they talked about the Eastern Seaboard of the US extended several 100 miles into the Atlantic Ocean. Could it be......?
I recently found out that the Indian Ocean is littered with small Islands between Africa and....Australia. Yes, remember Australia was "colonised" first by OOA.
Europeans and their lies probably got this thing all fugked up and twisted with their thirst to make themselves relevant in pre-history!
.
Remember the Mende speak a Mande language like the Olmecs
-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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Why do you think it is “back-migration”. You people need to reevaluate how you think…..This is profound!!
From 23andme 23andMe Wants Its DNA Data to Be Less White The company is offering free kits to researchers studying populations in Africa, Asia, and elsewhere—but the ethics are tricky.
Quote:” When I sent the description of 23andMe’s Populations Collaborations Program to Jantina de Vries, a bioethicist at University of Cape Town who coauthored the H3Africa guidelines, she flipped the scenario around: “Imagine an African company gets African researchers to collect 1,000 DNA samples of Americans just because they want to. People would not like that at all.””
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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Remember this….You people did to start THINKING for yourselves. There was never any “back-migration”. NEVER!!
How can the Abusir carry no SSA ancestry when Unsupervised ADMIXTURE show SUBSTANTIAL “Eurasian” DNA Throughout Africa? Understand the Abusir paper was doctored to throw the lame brained off with a curve ball.
The African Genome Variation Project shapes medical genetics in Africa - Deepti Gurdasani and L. Pagani
“We used principal component analysis (PCA) to explore relationships among AGVP populations (Extended Data Figures 2–5, Supplementary Figures 1 and 2). PC1 appeared to represent a cline extending from West and East African populations towards Ethiopian populations, possibly suggesting Eurasian gene flow, while PC2 separated West African and South/East African populations (Extended Data Figure 2). Inclusion of 1000GP, North African and Khoe-San populations in PCA (Extended Data Figures 3–5, and Supplementary Figures 1 and 2) suggested possible HG ancestry among southern Niger-Congo groups—highlighted by clustering towards the Khoe-San, in addition to confirming a cline towards Eurasian populations. Unsupervised ADMIXTURE9 analysis including the 1000GP and Human Origins datasets (Figure 1), also supported evidence for substantial Eurasian and HG ancestry in SSA (Figure 1 and Extended Data Figure 6). In order to assess the effect of gene flow on population differentiation in SSA, we masked Eurasian ancestry across the genome (Supplementary Methods, Supplementary Note 6). This markedly reduced population differentiation as measured by a decline in mean pairwise FST from 0.021 to 0.015 (Supplementary Note 6) suggesting that Eurasian ancestry has a substantial impact on ***differentiation among ***SSA populations. We speculate that residual differentiation between Ethiopian and other SSA populations after masking Eurasian ancestry (pairwise FST = 0.027) may be a remnant of East African diversity pre-dating the Bantu expansion.10”
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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What is going on here? Oceanians, Peruvians and ancient West Africans(Iwo-Eleru) share a genetic connection. When the “Eurasians” arrived FROM the source of the Nile, maybe Tanzania or Malawi and spread throughout Africa that changed the genetic makeup of SSA.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: [QB] Why do you think it is “back-migration”. You people need to reevaluate how you think…..This is profound!!
Maybe not back migration like people normally refer to it is. The common measure is if it left Africa. I think its possible that A never left Africa however it may have survived by moving to the outskirts of the continent.
Posts: 1254 | From: howdy | Registered: Mar 2014
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yes, Oceanian, Peruvian, American and Asian and European haplogroups are found throughout Africa including West Africa. Significance??!
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: What is going on here? Oceanians, Peruvians and ancient West Africans(Iwo-Eleru) share a genetic connection. When the “Eurasians” arrived FROM the source of the Nile, maybe Tanzania or Malawi and spread throughout Africa that changed the genetic makeup of SSA.
People place too much emphasis on genetics. When I began the study of African history back in the 1969 I was taught that in studying African history you had three major sources archaeology, textual evidence, and oral traditions.
These sources make it clear that 1)their were never any white people originating in Africa;2) after the great flood SSAs began to replace the Anu (Pygmies) in Eurasia to resurrect trade and mining operations in Eurasia after 4000BC; 3) after the decline of Maa Confederation SSAs migrated into the Nile Valley; 4) one of results of the decline of the Sahara was spread of a Megalithic culture from Africa onto countries in the Indian Ocean, that eventually reached the Americas;5)beginning with Narmer rise of Egypt and spread of Kushite culture into the Levant and Anatolia;6) Egyptians abandoned their Kushite Nationality; 7) Kushites built River Valley Civilizations in Mesopotamia, Indus Valley and China between 2500-1500 BC.
As the Sahara became arid SSAs began to resettle North and West Africa. which was predominately occupied by Khoisan and Pygmy groups. Over time these populations were absorbed by the SSAs between 2500-500BC.
After a series of earthquakes around the world Gutians or white Arabs appear in Mesopotamia around 2000-1700. White Europeans appear around 1500 and expand out of Central Asia as into Europe and the Mediterranean. After 1200 modern Chinese Mongoloids appeared in Northern China and began to push the white Europeans out of Central Asia; and the Blacks from East Asia into Southeast Asia and the Indian Ocean.
Much of the influence of Blacks in South America comes from first the Sumerians, and later Axumites.
This set in motion the replacement of Black people in Europe, Anatolia and the Levant through a process of slow infiltration and genocide. , With the fall of ancient Egypt Groups like the Yoruba in the Levant migrated all the way to Nigeria after 500BC
-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: What is going on here? Oceanians, Peruvians and ancient West Africans(Iwo-Eleru) share a genetic connection. When the “Eurasians” arrived FROM the source of the Nile, maybe Tanzania or Malawi and spread throughout Africa that changed the genetic makeup of SSA.
Much of the influence of Blacks in South America comes from first the Sumerians, and later Axumites. The Mochica was influenced by Axumite and Meroite ex-Pats. They would have also influenced the Incas.
Genetics can never tell you the story of history. Archaeology does teach us about what happened in ancient times like linguistics. Genetics , unless it is ancient DNA, is based of speculation and statistical models.
-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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Could the first clump or race of light skin people native African?
First attempt at an objective haplogroup map. I want to redo it with a consistent color scheme. I should not have split N and M with the color's blue and red.
And yes, Whites skin is indigenous to Africa...there are white Africans. Sorry Dr Winters.
Just as there are black Europeans....ala Cheddar Man
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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And yes, Whites skin is indigenous to Africa...there are white Africans. Sorry Dr Winters.
Just as there are black Europeans....ala Cheddar Man
So would you say that the modern European is white cheddar? and that the original cheddar was African?
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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I not sure what you mean as I think Dr. Winters is saying contemporary European whiteness is a new phenoma not white skin in general.
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