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Originally posted by markellion:
It was not a west African slave trade it was an African slave trade

William Pitt, The Younger. 1759-1806.

352. From His Speech On The Abolition Op The Slave-trade . April 2, 1792.

http://books.google.com/books?id=_SoQAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA1-PA452&dq=#v=onepage&q=&f=false

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Do you think nothing of the ruin and the miseries in which so many other individuals, still remaining in Africa, are involved, in consequence of carrying off so many myriads of people? Do you think nothing of their families which are left be- bind I of the connections which are broken ? of the friendships, attachments, and relationships that are burst asunder! Do you think nothing of the miseries in consequence, that are felt from generation to generation? of the privation of that happiness which might be communicated to them by the introduction of civilization, and of mental and moral improvement? A happiness which you withhold them so long as you permit the slave-trade to continue. What do you know of the internal state of Africa? You have carried on a trade to that quarter of the globe from this civilized and enlightened country. but such a trade, that, instead of diffusing either knowledge or wealth, it has been the check to every laudable pursuit. Instead of any fail interchange of commodities; instead of conveying to them, from this highly favored land, any means of improvement; you carry with you that noxious plant by which everything is withered and blasted; under whose shade nothing that is useful or profitable to Africa will eves flourish or take root. Long as that continent has been known to navigators, the extreme line and boundaries of its coasts is all with which Europe is yet become acquainted; while other countries in the same parallel of latitude, through a happier system of intercourse, have reaped the blessings of a mutually beneficial commerce. But as to the whole interior of that continent you are, by your own principles of commerce, as yet entirely shut out: Africa is known to you only in its skirts. Yet here you are able to infuse a poison that spreads its contagious effects from one end of it to the other, which penetrates to its very center, corrupting every part to which it reaches. You there subvert the whole order of nature; you aggravate every natural barbarity, and furnish to every man living on that continent motives for committing, under the name and pretext of commerce, acts of perpetual violence and perfidy

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http://books.google.com/books?id=OjI3AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA245#v=one page&q=&f=false

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[b]I verily believe, that the far greater part of the wars, in Africa, would cease, if the Europeans would cease to tempt them, by offering goods for slaves. And though they do not bring legions into the field, their wars are bloody. I believe, the captives reserved for sale are fewer than the slain.

I have not sufficient data to warrant calculation but, I suppose, not less than one hundred thousand slaves are exported, annually, from all parts of Africa, and that more than one-half of these are exported in English bottoms.

If but an equal number are killed in war, and if many of these wars are kindled by the incentive of selling their prisoners ; what an annual accumulation of blood must there be, crying against the nations of Europe concerned in this trade, and particularly against our own!

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That the wars which have always existed in Africa, have no connexion with the slave trade, is evident from the universality of the practice of it between communities in a savage state. The oldest writers, as Leo, and others, have represented the Africans as living in a continual state of war, and rapine, long before the commerce with Europeans was introduced among them; and no man of sense can doubt but the same practice would still continue, if no trade existed, and with greater frequency. Besides the motives of ambition and resentment, which the African has, in common with other nations of men, the turbulent and irascible disposition of a Negro prompts him to harrass and dispute with his neighbour, upon the most trivial provocations. Lured by the love of plunder, before he ever saw an European commodity (as the value of an article depends upon the estimation it holds in the fancy of him who covets it), the rude productions of the country, the trinkets of gold, or ivory, &c. were as much the objects of his desire formerly, as the acquisition of European manufactures can be at present.

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The demise of the French East India Company in 1706 (it was later resurrected as the Company of the Indies) caused a problem for French slave traders. It was impossible for them to remain competitive in the slave trade without ready access to cowry shells and Indian textiles. So vital was the Asian trade to the slave trade that a consortium of merchants raised over a million livres to start a company to replace the defunct French East India Company. In requesting authorization from the French Council of Commerce, the merchants cited the difficulties they were having in obtaining the products of Asia that were vital for the slave trade. The slave trade could not function successfully, they argued, unless they had direct access to cowry shells and Indian textiles...

...After the Company of the Indies abandoned its monopoly on the slave trade in 1725, a new system emerged that endured for decades. The company brought Indian textiles and cowry shells to its home port in Lorient, where it sold them to private slave traders who exchanged them for slaves in Africa. The slaves were then carried to the New World and exchanged for sugar. Roughly half of that sugar was carried back to France on slave ships, and the other half was carried by direct traders. The triangular slave trade, the Asia trade, and the direct trade to the New World formed an integrated system. No segment of it could survive without the others. It is a tragic irony that the archaic institution of slavery played such a crucial role in the 18th century development of the modern world economy.

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In the Senegal valley, for example, the attempts by certain monarchs to enslave and sell their own subjects gave rise, at the end of the 17th century, to the Marabout war and the Toubenan movement (from the word tuub, meaning to convert to Islam). Its founder, Nasir al-Din, proclaimed that "God does not permit kings to pillage, kill or enslave their peoples. He appointed them, on the contrary, to preserve their subjects and protect them from their enemies. Peoples were not made for kings, but kings for peoples.

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PUNISHMENT
Some people were taken into slavery as a punishment. The crime might be witchcraft, theft, or adultery.

"Every trifling crime is punish'd in the same manner… They strain for crimes very hard in order to sell into slavery."
Francis Moore, Royal Africa Company, writing in the 1730's.

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IMPACT ON POPULATION GROWTH
A number of slaves would have died at the point of capture and more in course of the journey to the coast. A merchant of Luanda in the late 18th century, Raymond Jalama, observed that nearly half of those captured inland were dead by the time they reached the coast.

The vast majority taken were men and this must have had a huge effect on the population they left behind particularly in a polygamous society.

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Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
King the KKK is a Christian organiztion notice the cross on their costume...yet you would not hold them as Christians such as your self.you can't pick out groups of racist individual and paint an entire population as having the same mentality,for even in the worst of times that was not true..you said you have Muslim friends ask them if they beleive in that idiot's statement..comparing slaverly eastern and western...you will find different results...for while the acquisition of slaves is brutal in any situation...how much slaves in the west rosed from humble beginings to a position of highest importance in the land...I am willing to bet some Christian fundamentalist would find no argument from that man you quoted concerning their bigotary. Senegal is a 98% muslem nation who sometimes elects Christian Presidents.

Every religion,civilizations,organizations has contraditions they have to contend with.

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Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
and I am not just talking about the Slave trade...

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Originally posted by markellion:
We are talking about the African slave trade not about Mohammad

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PUNISHMENT
Some people were taken into slavery as a punishment. The crime might be witchcraft, theft, or adultery.

"Every trifling crime is punish'd in the same manner… They strain for crimes very hard in order to sell into slavery."
Francis Moore, Royal Africa Company, writing in the 1730's.

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Page 313

According to the first written accounts of Lunda expansion, it was a variable "war of slaves" in which Lunda armies moved westward, traveling quickly from fortified outposts, and stripping the country of people

page 314 In Senegal

Contemporary French witnesses of the first of the movements, the Toubenan (purification) led by the reformer Nasr al-Din from 1673 to 1677, make explicit his hostility to the Atlantic slave trade. They believed his ban on the export of slaves to Christians ruined the trade temporarily and led French factors to oppose his movements and play a major role in supporting his opponents, leading to the Toubenan’s defeat.

Although the Toubenen opposed the export slave trade, it was also a larger social movement for Islamic justice and was caught up in the complex politics of the Senegalese states and their Arab and Moorish desert neighbors. The people of the area were equally concerned about the depredations of the ceddo, as the soldier-administrators of the Senegal-Valley kingdoms were called, which included the arbitrary exaction of taxes and the enslavement of people even within their own jurisdictions. Hence, Nasr al-Din “went from village to village,” the French governor Charbonneau noted, “preaching in the public square.. That God never allowed Kings to pillage, kill, or make their people captives; instead he was to keep them and protect them from their enemies; the people were not made for the kings, but the kings for the people.” Although they denounced slave trade aimed at providing captives to the Christian European buyers, the Toubenan leaders were hostile neither to slavery itself nor to the sale and ownership of slaves within Senegambia society.

The 'Abd al-Kadir and Sulayman Baal Islamic revival in the same area in 1776 mirred the Toubenan, opposing the tyrannical exactions of the ceddo, raids by the Arabs of the desert, and all enslavement. When 'Ab-al-Kadir's forced invaded Futa Tooro, they took no slaves (unlike their Arab allies), commanded as they were by "Priests," whose goal was to "submit them to the cult of Mahomet." 'Abd al-Kadir said that they wanted "nothing of the people; on the contrary they wanted to make them free." The message led people to flock to his banner: " They raised up the people against their legitimate sovereigns." As in the case of the Toubenan, however, the leadership did not long persist in such attitudes, and the slave trade was restored.

There was more ambiguity in the Islamic reform south of Senegal. In 1727, a Muslim party overthrew the rulers of Futa Jallon in modern Guinea and moved to establish an Islamic theocracy led by Karamokho Alfa. In its early stages, it aimed at the overthrow of tyranny, but it does not appear to have had the kind of anti-slave trade ideology found farther north. The movement soon became, under the leadership of Ibrahima Sory (1751-91), an aggressive force that sought to conquer neighboring areas and convert their inhabitants to its militant form of Islam. The militants sold slaves in order to acquire munitions necessary for their wars, So the Sierra Leone coast supplied one out of five Africans sold as slaves into the Atlantic world in the period 1760-80. Many leaders whom James Watt, a delegate of the Abolitionist Sierra Leone Company, interviewed while in Futa Jallon in 1794 were not at all troubled by the idea that the sale of slaves to Christians was contradictory to Islamic Law, as their northern coreliginists were. They told him that their wars were waged to capture slaves and had been commanded by religion, as they could only acquire military supplies by selling slaves. On the other hand, the leaders did feel that it was wrong to sell Muslim slaves. Some Muslims were enslaved when the armies of the Futa were defeated, and most notable among them being Ibrhima Abd al-Rahmen, a prince captured about 1790 and sold to Louisiana, where his case became celebrated twenty years later when he was repatriated by the fledgling government of the United States

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Originally posted by markellion:
Ok there is some confusing here. I mentioned the "Arab" slave trade to show that many of these were sold to Europeans. These wars for slaves were because of manipulation of African money systems and these Africans put a great deal of effort into selling slaves to European Christians. It was a "war of slaves" whither it was Luanda or elsewhere.

To put it in another way a great part of the "Muslim slave trade" was conducted for the sake of selling to European Christians

BBC the story of Africa

http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/africa/features/storyofafrica/9chapter6.shtml

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PUNISHMENT
Some people were taken into slavery as a punishment. The crime might be witchcraft, theft, or adultery.

"Every trifling crime is punish'd in the same manner… They strain for crimes very hard in order to sell into slavery."
Francis Moore, Royal Africa Company, writing in the 1730's.

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"Africa and Africans in the making of the Atlantic world," 1400-1800 By John Kelly Thornton

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Page 313

According to the first written accounts of Lunda expansion, it was a variable "war of slaves" in which Lunda armies moved westward, traveling quickly from fortified outposts, and stripping the country of people

page 314 In Senegal

Contemporary French witnesses of the first of the movements, the Toubenan (purification) led by the reformer Nasr al-Din from 1673 to 1677, make explicit his hostility to the Atlantic slave trade. They believed his ban on the export of slaves to Christians ruined the trade temporarily and led French factors to oppose his movements and play a major role in supporting his opponents, leading to the Toubenan’s defeat.

Although the Toubenen opposed the export slave trade, it was also a larger social movement for Islamic justice and was caught up in the complex politics of the Senegalese states and their Arab and Moorish desert neighbors. The people of the area were equally concerned about the depredations of the ceddo, as the soldier-administrators of the Senegal-Valley kingdoms were called, which included the arbitrary exaction of taxes and the enslavement of people even within their own jurisdictions. Hence, Nasr al-Din “went from village to village,” the French governor Charbonneau noted, “preaching in the public square.. That God never allowed Kings to pillage, kill, or make their people captives; instead he was to keep them and protect them from their enemies; the people were not made for the kings, but the kings for the people.” Although they denounced slave trade aimed at providing captives to the Christian European buyers, the Toubenan leaders were hostile neither to slavery itself nor to the sale and ownership of slaves within Senegambia society.

The 'Abd al-Kadir and Sulayman Baal Islamic revival in the same area in 1776 mirred the Toubenan, opposing the tyrannical exactions of the ceddo, raids by the Arabs of the desert, and all enslavement. When 'Ab-al-Kadir's forced invaded Futa Tooro, they took no slaves (unlike their Arab allies), commanded as they were by "Priests," whose goal was to "submit them to the cult of Mahomet." 'Abd al-Kadir said that they wanted "nothing of the people; on the contrary they wanted to make them free." The message led people to flock to his banner: " They raised up the people against their legitimate sovereigns." As in the case of the Toubenan, however, the leadership did not long persist in such attitudes, and the slave trade was restored.

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There were three main reasons why more slaves were required:

1. The clove plantations on Zanzibar and Pemba set up by Sultan Seyyid Said, needed labour.

2. Brazilian traders were finding it difficult to operate in West Africa because the British navy was intercepting slave ships. The Brazilians made the journey round the Cape of Good Hope, taking slaves from the Zambezi valley and Mozambique.

3. The French had started up sugar and coffee plantations in Mauritius and Reunion.

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I verily believe, that the far greater part of the wars, in Africa, would cease, if the Europeans would cease to tempt them, by offering goods for slaves. And though they do not bring legions into the field, their wars are bloody. I believe, the captives reserved for sale are fewer than the slain.

I have not sufficient data to warrant calculation but, I suppose, not less than one hundred thousand slaves are exported, annually, from all parts of Africa, and that more than one-half of these are exported in English bottoms.

If but an equal number are killed in war, and if many of these wars are kindled by the incentive of selling their prisoners ; what an annual accumulation of blood must there be, crying against the nations of Europe concerned in this trade, and particularly against our own!

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Zanguebar until 1884 remained a self=governing sultanate, its sovereign ruling in 1861 from Mukhdisho to Cape Delgado and his influence extending to Lake Tanganika, five hundred miles west. British influence was supreme, British subjects among Zanzibari slave=dealers.

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These wars are directly and instrumentally the acts of the slave-merchants of Whydah and its neighbouring parts; but have they no higher parties on whom to lay the blame of their actions ? are these, the agents of larger houses, the instruments in the hands of parties who have other means of disposing of their goods, to bear the whole blame? Truth is strange but a truth it is, that the slave trade is carried on in Dahomey and the neighbouring kingdoms with British merchandize, and, at Porto Novo, the residence of the monarch of slave dealers, by British shipping direct. I do not mean to say that if British goods were not obtainable, the traffic would cease to exist; but the taste for British goods runs high, and if these could not be purchased with slaves, palm-oil would be manufactured to obtain them.

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The amazons now advanced in the same order, and having saluted the king he joined them, and again performed a war dance. They also sang in praise of the liberality of the slave-dealer, who gave them muskets and powder to make war upon innocent neighbors; to enrich himself by supplying the market with slaves. These are the evils to uproot: and yet this very man is directly trading with, and receives these muskets and this powder from, British agents in British shipping.

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The goods brought back from the coast included cloth, some types acquiring the function of "currency" in various denominations; swords, guns and gunpowder, not very effective for use in hunting and warfare but important in ritual; soapstone figures carved at the coast, brought home as mementos; terracotta funerary "urns," nkudu, also made at the coast; alcohol, crockery and enamel ware. "Lutete himself is a most enterprising young fellow, often accompanying his caravans of ivory down to Ambrizete, on the coast, whence he returns with all sorts of trophies of civilization, such as coloured plates from the Graphic and bottles of soda-water."[ 37] Many of these items ended their careers on the graves of important men, where they could still be seen in 1970. Different districts valued such items differently; "It is quite a false idea," reported Sir Harry Johnston, "that you can go anywhere in Africa with any sort of bead or any kind of cloth. Each district has its peculiar tastes and fancies to consult, and you might starve in one place with bales of goods that would purchase kingdoms in another…. Between Vivi and Isangila you will find red handkerchiefs, striped cloth, brass 'tacks,' gin and wire useful. At Manyanga blue beads rule the market; at Stanley Pool brass rods."[ 38] In Vungu, a piece of cloth called bela was highly regarded; "it was about the size of your hand, and worth about 50 centimes. One bela would buy an iron cleaning-rod for a gun; rods were valued, because they could be bent and worn as bracelets."

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That the wars which have always existed in Africa, have no connexion with the slave trade, is evident from the universality of the practice of it between communities in a savage state. The oldest writers, as Leo, and others, have represented the Africans as living in a continual state of war, and rapine, long before the commerce with Europeans was introduced among them; and no man of sense can doubt but the same practice would still continue, if no trade existed, and with greater frequency. Besides the motives of ambition and resentment, which the African has, in common with other nations of men, the turbulent and irascible disposition of a Negro prompts him to harrass and dispute with his neighbour, upon the most trivial provocations. Lured by the love of plunder, before he ever saw an European commodity

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Economy

- Dahomey had a monetary system: cowry shells were the basic currency, but trade goods were used also—guns, bolts of cloth etc.

- Europeans tried to take advantage of this currency; they brought so many cowry shells that the shells lost value (inflation). As a result, European trade goods became the basic currency used in the purchase of slaves.

- farming was very important; agriculture was mostly carried out by men, usually in communal gangs of young men; this was different from most of the rest of Africa where women did most of the agricultural work. However, there were many artisans also who made products in addition to farming.

- the market economy mostly involved producers selling to consumers,but some women acted as middlemen. The latter would travel from market to market buying and selling goods.


- all trade with Europeans was a royal monopoly and guarded jealously by successive kings; kings never allowed Europeans to bypass and trade directly with people in the kingdom. As a military, predatory state, the costs of government and the military were high; thus,the king needed all the revenue from taxes and the profits of trade that he could get.

- Europeans and their influence were confined to one port on the coast—Whydah.

- permission to go inland, especially to the capital, was given only infrequently and as a special favour; because so few Europeans were allowed in, there were only a limited number of eyewitness accounts in spite of the long history of trade and contacts; no missionaries were allowed in.

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The alternative Anti-Abolitionist view denying the commercial origins of Dahomey’s wars has also, however, persisted. Karl Polanyi’s insistence on the irrelevance of the profit motive in the determination of Dahoman policy, for example, clearly owes a great deal to eighteenth-century Anti- Abolitionist sources such as Dalzel. More explicitly, writers such as Fage (1969) and Romen (1971) have drawn upon the Anti-Abolitionist interpretation of Dahomey, including in particular Lionel Abson’s repot of king Kpengla’s pronouncement on the issue, to deny that African wars can be explained wholly, or even mainly, in terms of the slave trade. Somewhat paradoxically, for these writers this alternative view also serves to vindicate the dignity of African societies, since the denial that their history can be understood in terms of the impact of the European trade supports a claim for the essentially autonomous character of their historical development, which is explained in terms of internal dynamics rather than of external influences.

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an alternative calculation by Patrick Manning (1982) would raise the share of the Atlantic trade in the national income to 15 percent, and both sets of figures must be regarded as having an essentially illustrative rather than a probative value. Assessment of the importance of the Atlantic trade must also, of course, be based upon qualitative as well as on quantitative considerations, and account needs to be taken of the crucial role played for the Dahomean state not only by imported firearms (whose importance Peuket tends to discount) but also by imported luxury items, which could be distributed to attract and secure the allegiance of followers, and by the cowry shells which served as currency in local markets. The importance of imported goods in royal largesse was already clear in the 1720s, when Bulfinch Lamb noted that the king of Dahomey ‘gives Booges [cowries] like dirt, and Brandy like water’. The importance of cowry shells should especially be stressed: in the second half of the seventeenth century, it appears that between a third and a half of the value of imports into the Slave Coast was normally in cowries. It is somewhat ironic that Peukert points to the existence of a flourishing local exchange economy in Dahomey as part of his argument for the downgrading of the significance of overseas trade. But the flourishing local trade, lubricated by a currency of imported cowry shells, was evidently, in large measure, itself a consequence of the booming Atlantic trade.

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But slaves are the staple article of the traffic; and though a considerable number may have been born near the sea, I believe the bulk of them are brought from far. I have reason to think that some travel more than a thousand miles, before they reach the sea. coast Whether there may be convicts amongst these likewise, or what proportion they may bear to those who are taken prisoners in war, it is impossible to know.

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Sultan Abul-Hasan was well known for his ostentatious ways and his presumption to vie with the mightiest monarchs and adopt their customs in exchanging gifts with their peers and counterparts and dispatching emissaries to distant kings and far frontiers. In his time the king of Mali was the greatest of the kings of the Sudan and the nearest to his kingdom in the Maghrib. Mali was 100 stages distant from the southern frontiers of his realms

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Despite the increasing interest in translation in the last two decades, there has been no investigation of the translation of historiography and its transformation from one language to another. This article takes as a case study the translation into French of Ibn Khaldûn, the fourteenth-century North African historian. It considers specifically the translation done by William de Slane in the context of the colonization of Algeria. The Histoire des Berbères, the French narrative of Ibn Khaldûn that relates to the history of Arabs and Berbers in the Maghreb, has become since then the source of French knowledge of North Africa. It is upon that French narrative that colonial and post-colonial historians have constructed their knowledge of North Africa, of Arabs, and of Berbers. The article shows how a portion of the writing of Ibn Khaldûn was translated and transformed in the process in such a way as to become a French narrative with colonial categories specific to the nineteenth century. Using a semiotic approach and analyzing both the French text and its original, the article shows how colonialism introduced what Castoriadis calls an "imaginary" by transforming local knowledge and converting it into colonial knowledge. In showing this the essay reveals that not only is translation not the transmission of a message from one language to another, it is indeed the production of a new text. For translation is itself the product of an imaginary, a creation-in Ricoeur's words, a "restructuring of semantic fields.

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PUNISHED FOR KEEPING SLAVES
The Asanti (the capital, Kumasi, is in modern Ghana) had a long tradition of domestic slavery. But gold was the main commodity for selling. With the arrival of Europeans the slaves displaced gold as the main commodity for trade. As late as 1895 the British Colonial Office was not concerned by this.

"It would be a mistake to frighten the King of Kumasi and the Ashantis generally on the question of slavery. We cannot sweep away their customs and institutions all at once. Domestic slavery should not be troubled at present."

British attitudes changed when the King of the Asanti (the Asantehene) resisted British colonial authority. The suppression of the slave trade became a justification for the extension of European power. With the humiliation and exile of King Prempeh I in 1896, the Asanti were placed under the authority of the Governor of the Gold Coast and forced therefore to conform to British law and abolish the slave trade.

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Posted by abdulkarem3 (Member # 12885) on :
 
the myriad that made up the slaves of north america
This is antebellum americabooks dont tell you that there were many white slaves in antebellum times classified as black just because they maternally descended from at least one african mother.

read this

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1.8
A petition to free a white slave

Petition of Gurdon Deming to the North Carolina General Assembly, December 1800. Records of the General Assembly, Session Records, North Carolina Division of Archives and History.

To the Honorable the General Assembly of the State of North Carolina.

The Petition of Gurdon Deming a citizen of the county of Cumberland Humbly sheweth, that he is the owner of a Certain woman named Lucy and her child Laura Who were represented to be slaves and as such purchased by your petitioner –

That he has reason to believe and doth believe from diligent inquires made, that the Said Lucy ought not to be held in bondage. Your petitioner is aware that legal proof cannot be made of the fact, yet your petitioner is fully satisfied, that the Said Lucy is the daughter of a free white Woman – that to conceal this circumstance, so as to protect the reputation of the real mother, Lucy at her birth was placed in charge of a woman slave of one John Selph – Your petitioner learns from a number of the most respectable citizens of Fayetteville, that it was always the intention of Mr. Selph to manumit the Said Lucy at his death – but the death of Mr. Selph being sudden and his estate providing insolvent, his intentions were frustrated – Lucy was sold by his administrator and she was purchased at a mere nominal Sum by Several Gentlemen with the View to Carry out the wishes of Mr. Selph; Owing however to the insolvency of the person delegated to bid her off, occurring soon after, She was again Sold and has subsequently fallen with into the hands of your petitioner –

The History of Lucy is a romantic one, and if your petitioner could detail it without giving offense and bringing to light, what has long been forgotten and thereby do injury perhaps to persons now residents of a distant state, he is certain your honorable body would not hesitate a moment in assisting him in doing simple justice to this injured Girl, by authorizing her immediate Emancipation –

Lucy in colour is perfectly White, and cannot be distinguished from the purest of the race, her associations have been distinct from the coloured population, and her whole demeanor that of the whites to which class she evidently belongs.

In consideration of these things your petitioner humbly prays your honorable body to pass a law authorizing the Emancipation of the Said Lucy, and her child Laura, And as in duty bound, your petitioner will ever pray.

Gurdon Deming

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Posted by abdulkarem3 (Member # 12885) on :
 
east indian slaves

article

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As these South Asians melded into the population, they would be identified variously as "Mullato," "Negro," and "colored" in the ethnic cauldron that was evolving in America, thus losing much of their racial distinctiveness with each passing generation, merging into the African-American community, largely unaware of their Indian roots

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cant forget the other "indians"

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The Boston Newsletter, July 23, 1716.

This is to give notice that on the 16th of July, 1716, Runaway from his Master, David Lyell, an Indian Man named Nim, he lately belonged to Mr. James Moore, he is about one and twenty years of Age and is short broad shouldered Fellow his hair hath lately been cut off, he has a swelling on the back of his right hand, and can do something in the Carpenters trade, he hath with him two new shirts, a new waistcoat, and breeches of white course linen, and the same blew striped; a homespun Coat, wears a Hat, Shoes, Stockings. ‘Tis believed he endeavours to get on board some Vessel. Whoever takes up the said Indian in the Jerseys, and brings him to his said master shall have forty shillings and charges and if in any other government Five pounds if they give but notice where he is, so that his Master may have him again. Direct to David Lyell in New York or at Amboy in New Jersey.

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The New-York Gazette, June 24, 1734.

Runaway last Wednesday from Judith Vincent in Monmouth County in New Jersey an Indian Man named Stoffels , speaks good English, about Forty years of age, he is a House carpenter, a Cooper, a Wheelwright and is a good butcher also. There is also two others gone along with him, one being half Indian and half Negro and the other a Mulatto about 30 years of age & plays upon the violin and has it with him. Whoever takes up & secures said fellow so that he may be had again shall have forty shillings as a reward and all reasonable charges paid by the said Judith Vincent.

N.B. It is supposed’d they are all going together in a canow towards Connecticut or Rhode Island.

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Posted by unfinished thought. (Member # 16076) on :
 
-
 

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Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
 
Dirk8 wrote:
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Here we go again with the Afrocentric Manifesto:
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HEE HEE HEE HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

He doesn't like abdulkarem's historically documented facts.


You can't beat history, you just can't.


Have a good night's rest Dirk8.
 

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Posted by abdulkarem3 (Member # 12885) on :
 
i know this will make people uncomfortable since they hate arabs and blame arabs for the enslavement of "blacks" but this must be told for it is the make up of the group that is called african-americans

the enslaved moors or as some may hate to say, arabs

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Virginia Slave Code (1705)

Web version: http://www.law.du.edu/russell/lh/alh/docs/virginiaslaverystatutes.html

October 1705 - 4th Anne. CHAP. KLIX. 3.447.

An act concerning Servants and Slaves...

IV. And also be it enacted, by the authority aforesaid, and it is hereby enacted, That all servants imported and brought into this country, by sea or land, who were not christians in their native country, (except Turks and Moors in amity with her majesty, and others that can make due proof of their being free in England, or any other christian country, before they were shipped, in order to transporation hither) shall be accounted and be slaves, and as such be here bought and sold notwithtanding a conversion to christianity afterwards…


XI. And for a further christian care and usage of all christian servants, Be it also enacted, by the authority aforesaid, and it is hereby enacted, That no negros, mulattos, or Indians, although christians, or Jews, Moors, Mahometans, or other infidels, shall, at any time, purchase any christian servant, nor any other, except of their own complexion, or such as are declared slaves by this act: And if any negro, mulatto, or Indian, Jew, Moor, Mahometan, or other infidel, or such as are declared slaves by this act, shall, notwithstanding, purchase any christian white servant, the said servant shall, ipso facto, become free and acquit from any service then due, and shall be so held, deemed, and taken: And if any person, having such christian servant, shall intermarry with any such negro, mulatto, or Indian, Jew, Moor, Mahometan, or other infidel, every christian white servant of every such person so intermarrying, shall, ipso facto, become free and acquit from any service then due to such master or mistress so intermarrying, as aforesaid…

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Petition from Sundry Free Moors

On January 20, 1790, a petition was presented to the South Carolina House of Representatives from a group of eight individuals who were subjects of the Moroccan emperor and residents of the colony. They desired that if they happened to commit any fault amenable to be brought to justice, that as subjects to a prince allied with the United States through the Moroccan-American Treaty of Friendship, they would be tried as citizens instead of under the Negro Act.

The Free Moors, Francis, Daniel, Hammond and Samuel petitioned on behalf of themselves and their wives Fatima, Flora, Sarah and Clarinda.[1] They explained how some years ago while fighting in defense of their country, they and their wives were captured and made prisoners of war by the Portuguese. After this a certain Captain Clark had them delivered to him, promising they would be redeemed by the Moroccan ambassador residing in England, and returned to their country. Instead, he transported them to South Carolina, and sold them for slaves. Since then, "by the greatest industry," they purchased freedom from their respective masters: They requested that as free born subjects of a Prince in alliance with the U.S., that they should not be considered subject to a State Law (then in force) known as the negro law. If they be found guilty of any crime or misdemeanor, they would receive a fair trial by lawful jury.[2] The matter was referred to a committee consisting of Justice Grimke, General Charles Pinckney and Edward Rutledge.
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Free Moors Petition: Ruling

Edward Rutledge reported from the committee referred to the Free Moors petition. The order for immediate consideration of the matter was read and agreed to as follows Vizt: "They have Considered the same and are of opinion that no Law of this State can in its Construction or Operation apply to them, and that persons who were Subjects of the Emperor of Morocco being Free in this State are not triable by the Law for the better Ordering and Governing of Negroes and other Slaves

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[friday, september 28,1739]
a man brought the news that the negroes or moorish slaves are not yet pacified but are roaming around in gangs in the carolina forests and that ten of them had come as far as the border of this country just two days ago. In answer to the request of the inhabitants of savannah(georgia) to use moorish slaves for their work, the lord trustees have given the simple negative answer that they will never permit a single black to come into the country, for which they have sufficient grounds that aim at the happiness of the subjects. Mr Oglethorpe told us that the misfortune with the Negro rebellion had begun on the day of the Lord, which these slaves must desecrate with work and in other ways at the desire, command, and compulsion of their masters and that we could recognize a jus talionis in it. I, however, ponder the fact that the mill in the old ebenezer was also ruined by a flood on sunday and that the work that was done then through necessity by the servants did no good.

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The Spanish enslaved their Turkish, Portuguese, Arab and Moorish captives, to use them as galley slaves. These prisoners also did slave labor at Cartagena in the West Indies.

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The African slave trade began with the importation of Black slaves into Portugal in the Fifteenth Century. In 1452 Pope Nicholas Vth issued a bull "Dum Diversas" which granted the King of Portugal permission to conquer and reduce to perpetual slavery all "Saracens and pagans and other infidels and enemies of Christ" in West Africa. In 1488, King Ferdinand sent a hundred Moorish slaves to Pope Innocent VIII, who passed them on as gifts to his cardinals and courtiers!

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During the 18th century and the first decade ofthe 19th century, [b]a number of arabs, captured by the europeans, were brought to America and sold as slaves.
nadim makdisi, "arab adventures in the new world," The Arab World(july 1966) pg 94

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An occasional arab was not an unusual figure on the plantations of Georgia and South Carolina
Adele Younes, " The Arabs who followed Columbus," The arab world, parts I and II(march & august 1966)
pg. 95

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The humble Petition of Francis, Daniel, Hammond and Samuel, (Free Moors) in behalf of themselves and their wives Fatima, Flora, Sarah and Clarinda, Humbly Sheweth That your Petitioners some years past had the misfortune while fighting in the defence of their Country, to be captured with their wives and made prisoners of War by one of the Kings of Africa. That a certain Captain Clark had them delivered to him on a promise that they should be redeemed by the Emperor of Morocco’s Ambassador then residing in England, in order to have them returned to their own Country: Instead of which he brought them to this State, and sold them for slaves. Since that period they have by the greatest industry been enabled to purchase their freedom from their respective Masters: And now prayeth your Honorable House, That as free born subjects of a Prince now in Alliance with these United States; that they may not be considered as subject to a Law of this State (now in force) called the negro law: but if they should unfortunately be guilty of any crime or misdemeanor against the Laws of the Land, that they may have a just trial by a Lawful Jury.

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Originally posted by abdulkarem3:

The Free Moors, Francis, Daniel, Hammond and Samuel petitioned on behalf of themselves and their wives Fatima, Flora, Sarah and Clarinda.[1] They explained how some years ago while fighting in defense of their country, they and their wives were captured and made prisoners of war by the Portuguese. After this a certain Captain Clark had them delivered to him, promising they would be redeemed by the Moroccan ambassador residing in England, and returned to their country. Instead, he transported them to South Carolina, and sold them for slaves. Since then, "by the greatest industry," they purchased freedom from their respective masters: They requested that as free born subjects of a Prince in alliance with the U.S., that they should not be considered subject to a State Law (then in force) known as the negro law. If they be found guilty of any crime or misdemeanor, they would receive a fair trial by lawful jury.[2] The matter was referred to a committee consisting of Justice Grimke, General Charles Pinckney and Edward Rutledge.

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Posted by markellion (Member # 14131) on :
 
People are so conditioned to see "Negroes" as weak and inferior that they would change "kings of Africa" to "Portuguese". It is something so incomprehensible that they just had to change it

These "kings of Africa" were in an insane frenzy to capture as many people as they could to sell to Europeans, these perpetual wars would make their armies amongst the most skilled and well trained in the world. Plus with all the weapons sold to them they would be very formidable

The empires of the "Sudan" were always formidable but they would be an overwhelming terror during this time period
 

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Posted by markellion (Member # 14131) on :
 
About the article from Louise Marie allot of the information is wrong, the devastation of the slave trade was mostly after the mid-seventeenth century. "Arab" trafficking was always marginal. It was mostly trade goods that stimulated the wars, firearms were a means to make it easier to wage wars for slaves. Many places were devastated even though not having direct contact with Europeans

Does anyone have information on what the population was in 1500 as opposed to after the slave trade. He is saying the population was lowered by 400,000,000 ?

Louise Marie Diop-Maes "Memory of the slave trade The impact on Africa"

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.monde-diplomatique.fr/2007/11/DIOP_MAES/15329&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=7&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3DThe%2Btruth%2Ba bout%2Bwhat%2Bslavery%2Bdid%2Bto%2BAfrica%2Bby%2BLouise%2BMarie%2BDiop-Maes%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG

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The intellectual and spiritual level was similar to that of North Africa at the same time. The great Arab traveler of the fourteenth century, Ibn Battuta, praised security and justice found in the empire of Mali. Before the use of firearms, the Arab slave trade remained marginal compared to economic activity and population size. Leo Africanus (early sixteenth century) mentions that the King of Bornu (Chad region) will mount an expedition to capture slaves once a year (1)....

The raids were multiplied to the point of reaching a total of eighty per year in the early nineteenth century, north-east of Central, according to the Tunisian scholar Mohamed el-Tounsy, who traveled to Darfur and Ouaddaï (now Chad) at this time (2). The percentage of prisoners in relation to the whole population thus continually increases from the seventeenth century and the late nineteenth and "once densely populated districts were reclaimed by the bush" or forest" (3).

...This evaluation was possible because, with the European presence within the territories, some statistical details were added to the narrative sources (11). After correction for failure to report, the population was estimated at one hundred and forty hundred and forty five million people, approximately. Given the increase recorded between 1930 and 1948-1949, it is estimated that in 1930 with a population between one hundred thirty one hundred thirty-five million people, which therefore represent two thirds of the population approximate years 1870-1890, and estimated at about two hundred million. It concludes that the population was in the sixteenth century to about six hundred million at least (an average of about thirty persons per square kilometer) as the result of my research. The old figures of thirty-one hundred million were entirely imaginary, and that showed Daniel Noin, former president of the Population Committee of the International Geographical Union (12).

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Through contact with the Islamic world to the north and east, Kano and the rest of Hausaland already were influenced indirectly by the wider world, indcluding the western world. Kano had served as a center of the slave trade from long before this time, but served mostly north Africa. The demand for slaves to fill the needs of European colonies in the New World, led Kano more deeply into the slave trade early in the seventeenth century. The Hausa themselves never dealt directly with European slavers. Rather, they would go on raiding expeditions to the south, then trade their captives to other peoples south and west of them, who would trade with Europeans on the coast.

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Gondar enjoyed a well-deserved reputation as a thriving urban center of politics, religion, and trade. Goods such as incense, musk, gold, and slaves flowed westward to the Sudan or northward to Massawa

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Originally posted by argyle104:
Why is it when abdulkarem3 posted historical documentation regarding slaves who were not so called "west" African, the participation in this thread came to an almost screeching halt?

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Originally posted by abdulkarem3:
i know this will make people uncomfortable since they hate arabs and blame arabs for the enslavement of "blacks" but this must be told for it is the make up of the group that is called african-americans

the enslaved moors or as some may hate to say, arabs

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Virginia Slave Code (1705)

Web version: http://www.law.du.edu/russell/lh/alh/docs/virginiaslaverystatutes.html

October 1705 - 4th Anne. CHAP. KLIX. 3.447.

An act concerning Servants and Slaves...

IV. And also be it enacted, by the authority aforesaid, and it is hereby enacted, That all servants imported and brought into this country, by sea or land, who were not christians in their native country, (except Turks and Moors in amity with her majesty, and others that can make due proof of their being free in England, or any other christian country, before they were shipped, in order to transporation hither) shall be accounted and be slaves, and as such be here bought and sold notwithtanding a conversion to christianity afterwards…


XI. And for a further christian care and usage of all christian servants, Be it also enacted, by the authority aforesaid, and it is hereby enacted, That no negros, mulattos, or Indians, although christians, or Jews, Moors, Mahometans, or other infidels, shall, at any time, purchase any christian servant, nor any other, except of their own complexion, or such as are declared slaves by this act: And if any negro, mulatto, or Indian, Jew, Moor, Mahometan, or other infidel, or such as are declared slaves by this act, shall, notwithstanding, purchase any christian white servant, the said servant shall, ipso facto, become free and acquit from any service then due, and shall be so held, deemed, and taken: And if any person, having such christian servant, shall intermarry with any such negro, mulatto, or Indian, Jew, Moor, Mahometan, or other infidel, every christian white servant of every such person so intermarrying, shall, ipso facto, become free and acquit from any service then due to such master or mistress so intermarrying, as aforesaid…

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In south carolina

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Petition from Sundry Free Moors

On January 20, 1790, a petition was presented to the South Carolina House of Representatives from a group of eight individuals who were subjects of the Moroccan emperor and residents of the colony. They desired that if they happened to commit any fault amenable to be brought to justice, that as subjects to a prince allied with the United States through the Moroccan-American Treaty of Friendship, they would be tried as citizens instead of under the Negro Act.

The Free Moors, Francis, Daniel, Hammond and Samuel petitioned on behalf of themselves and their wives Fatima, Flora, Sarah and Clarinda.[1] They explained how some years ago while fighting in defense of their country, they and their wives were captured and made prisoners of war by the Portuguese. After this a certain Captain Clark had them delivered to him, promising they would be redeemed by the Moroccan ambassador residing in England, and returned to their country. Instead, he transported them to South Carolina, and sold them for slaves. Since then, "by the greatest industry," they purchased freedom from their respective masters: They requested that as free born subjects of a Prince in alliance with the U.S., that they should not be considered subject to a State Law (then in force) known as the negro law. If they be found guilty of any crime or misdemeanor, they would receive a fair trial by lawful jury.[2] The matter was referred to a committee consisting of Justice Grimke, General Charles Pinckney and Edward Rutledge.
[edit]
Free Moors Petition: Ruling

Edward Rutledge reported from the committee referred to the Free Moors petition. The order for immediate consideration of the matter was read and agreed to as follows Vizt: "They have Considered the same and are of opinion that no Law of this State can in its Construction or Operation apply to them, and that persons who were Subjects of the Emperor of Morocco being Free in this State are not triable by the Law for the better Ordering and Governing of Negroes and other Slaves

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quote from Stono: documenting and interpreting a Southern slave revolt By Mark Michael Smith

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[friday, september 28,1739]
a man brought the news that the negroes or moorish slaves are not yet pacified but are roaming around in gangs in the carolina forests and that ten of them had come as far as the border of this country just two days ago. In answer to the request of the inhabitants of savannah(georgia) to use moorish slaves for their work, the lord trustees have given the simple negative answer that they will never permit a single black to come into the country, for which they have sufficient grounds that aim at the happiness of the subjects. Mr Oglethorpe told us that the misfortune with the Negro rebellion had begun on the day of the Lord, which these slaves must desecrate with work and in other ways at the desire, command, and compulsion of their masters and that we could recognize a jus talionis in it. I, however, ponder the fact that the mill in the old ebenezer was also ruined by a flood on sunday and that the work that was done then through necessity by the servants did no good.

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Originally posted by KING:
Any time I read about how "Tame" the Arab slave trade was, I just have to shake my head.

The Arabs did all manner of evils against the Africans, yet all we hear about is the European slave trade Watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yaVcKAWccU

Stop trying to downplay the Arab slave trade.

Peace

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Avee wrote:
Am sure there were isolated cases, along the way, were arabs aided by some somalis raided isolated homes and took families. Somalis were often guides to Arabs when they ventured the interrior of Kenya.

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East indian slaves were insignificant compared to west/central african slaves, those are facts, you cant edit the past herpes boy.

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Originally posted by argyle104:
Yonis, define "west" Africa.


Define "central" Africa.


If you cannot do so then your statements about the majority of slaves being "west/central" African are dismissed as wishful opinions. Since you cannot even define the area that you are trying to fabricate make believe stories about.

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Ofcourse i can define west and central africa,

Here you go.


 

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Posted by Jari-Ankhamun (Member # 14451) on :
 

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Originally posted by Yonis2:

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Originally posted by argyle104:
Yonis, define "west" Africa.


Define "central" Africa.


If you cannot do so then your statements about the majority of slaves being "west/central" African are dismissed as wishful opinions. Since you cannot even define the area that you are trying to fabricate make believe stories about.

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Ofcourse i can define west and central africa,

Here you go.

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The Spanish enslaved their Turkish, Portuguese, Arab and Moorish captives, to use them as galley slaves. These prisoners also did slave labor at Cartagena in the West Indies.

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"Turnbull and his group, made up of adventurers, indentured servants and slaves from Spain, Italy and Greece, landed in what is now New Smyrna Beach in 1768."

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Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun:
Next thing you know he will use West Africa and say all of Africa was enslaved during the Altantic trade along with Turks, Asians, and Berbers.

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Some writers have depicted the slave trails reaching right across the continent, plunging their merciless thrust into the most remote corners of the far interior. This certainly happened during the brief and bloody Arab slave trade from Zanzibar in the nineteenth century. Even in earlier times it was now and then the case, captives from inland countries being handled from one set of traders to the next until they were finally delivered to Europeans at the coast. ‘They sold us for money’, recalls the narrative of a West African ex-slave who wrote his memoirs in 1831, ‘and I myself was sold six times over, sometimes for money, sometimes for a gun, sometimes for cloth… It was about half a year from the time I was taken before I saw white people.’

Another memoir tells how a French slaving captain purchased at Cabinda, near the mouth of the Congo river, ‘an African woman who seemed to him pretty familiar with Whites, or at least showed no surprise or fear at sight of them. Struck by this unusual confidence, the slaver asked her the cause of it. She replied that she had already seen White men in another land where the sun rose out of the water instead of hiding itself in the sea, as it does in the Congo. Pointing to the east, she added the words monizi monamu – many moons – on the way.’ This story, adds the writer, appears to confirm what the seventeenth-century Dutch geographer, Olfert Dapper, had said about the slaves of Mozambique being sold in the Congo.

There is nothing improbable about Africans having repeatedly and even regularly traversed the continent from one ocean to the other. From experience at the end of the seventeenth century, the trader James Barbot had already observed that peoples in Angola extended their trade as far eastward as the frontiers of the kingdoms of Mombasa, Kilwa and Sofala, all of which are on the east African coast. Slaves were brought to the Angolan coast, he noted, from ‘150 or 200 leagues up the country’.

‘All that vast number of slaves which the Calabar blacks sell to all European nations’, James uncle, John Barbot, was writing a little earlier of the Niger delta trade, ‘are not their prisoners of war, the greatest part being bought by those people of their inland neighbors, and they also buy them of other nations yet more remote from there.’

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Originally posted by markellion:

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Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun:
Next thing you know he will use West Africa and say all of Africa was enslaved during the Altantic trade along with Turks, Asians, and Berbers.

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It was a slave trade. "West Africa" was not enslaved except for a trade that was to the disadvantage of the Africans. In order to attain the numbers needed Africans on the coast would tap into trade networks that spanned all over the continent and slaves would be sold from market to market before reaching the cost

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The natives are cheated, in the number, weight, measure, or quality of what they purchase, in every possible way : and, by habit and emulation, a marvellous dexterity is acquired in these practices. And thus the natives in their turn, in proportion to their commerce with the Europeans, and (I am sorry to add) particularly with the English, become jealous, insidious, and revengeful.

http://books.google.com/books?id=OjI3AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA242

For, with a few exceptions, the English and the Africans, reciprocally, consider each other as consummate villains, who are always watching opportunities to do mischief. In short, we have, I fear too deservedly, a very unfavourable character upon the coast. When I have charged a black with unfairness and dishonesty, he has answered, if able to clear himself, with an air of disdain, "What! do you think I am a white man I"

http://books.google.com/books?id=OjI3AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA245#v=onepage&q=&f=false

But slaves are the staple article of the traffic; and though a considerable number may have been born near the sea, I believe the bulk of them are brought from far. I have reason to think that some travel more than a thousand miles, before they reach the sea coast. Whether there may be convicts amongst these likewise, or what proportion they may bear to those who are taken prisoners in war, it is impossible to know.

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Originally posted by anguishofbeing:
what good would a slave be [physically] if he/she were taken from say Kenya, sold from master to master along the continent until reaching the west African coast? How long would that take [even by vehicle it would still be tiring] and wouldn't that be expensive venture?

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Originally posted by anguishofbeing:
Assuming that Africa is one big continental slave market, as you want us to believe,

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When the conquest of the West (by the Arabs) was completed, and merchants began to penetrate into the interior, they saw no nation of the Blacks so mighty as Ghanah, the dominions of which extended westward as far as the Ocean. The King's court was kept in the city of Ghanah, which, according to the author of the Book of Roger (El Idrisi), and the author of the Book of Roads and Realms (El Bekri), is divided into two parts, standing on both banks of the Nile, and ranks among the largest and most populous cities of the world.

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His emphatic rejection of any form of the "conquest hypothesis" carries parciular weight since he was writing relatively early, more or less on the spot geographically, and - a little curiously, we confess - he cited precisely the Almoravid/Ghana confrontation passage from Ibn Khaldun to prove his own anti-conquest opinion. More than two centuries later, as we shall soon see, this notorious passage would lead European scholars to draw a quite opposite conclusion concerning the same manner

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Originally posted by anguishofbeing:
And if a large number of slaves died before they reached the coast why the f!ck would traders want a "bulk of them" from far?

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Originally posted by anguishofbeing:
^ First you have to identity these "cheaper" slaves. From where Ireland?

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From the early years of English trade to Western Africa, when the Royal African Company had a monopoly of it under a royal charter, East India cotton goods formed a large proportion of the exports, as was shown earlier. As the limited size of the domestic market forced some of the English cotton producers to move into the markets of Western Africa, they came face to face with the Indian cottons.

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the petitioner and his partner have laid out a capital of £70,000, and upwards, to establish themselves in the aforesaid manufactories, which are entirely for the African market, and not saleable for any other; and that the petitiioner has lately been informed, that a Bill is now depending in the House, for the purpose of regulating, for a limited time, the shipping and carrying slaves, in British vessels, from the coast of Africa, which the petitioner is informed, and believes, will greatly hurt, if not entirely ruin, the British trade to Africa in the Manufacturers aforesaid, whereby the petitioner and his partners would lose the greatest part of the aforesaid capital

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Thus French scholars have suggested the important role played by Africa as a market for European manufactures, especially of the more basic sort. It has been suggested that the French armaments industry was completely dependent on the African trade (which was paid for by slave exports) during times of European peace. Several other industries on the continent and in England can also be shown to have been highly dependent on the African market. Since much of early industrial activity involved production of cruder and popularly consumed products, it can be argued that the African market played a vital part in sustaining the growth of some of Europe's newest infant industries. Thus, while the more extreme position that Williams suggested has not been supported, scholars have suggested important linkages between European industrial production and the African market...

.....The goods exported to Africa to pay for the slaves were costly manufactured products, or high-priced imports from other countries or even other continents, and were the single most expensive factor in the outfitting of the voyage, being more valuable than the ship, the wages for the crew, and food supplies combined. An officer in the Royal Navy presented a typical cost estimate to Parliament in the late 1780s, which noted that the cargo taken on board a typical slaver leaving Liverpool was close to double the combined costs of the ship, its insurance, and the wages of the crew for twenty months. Even when all the final commissions to the captain, the officers, and agents from the final slave sales, the interest on the loans, and the port fees were included, the costs of the outbound cargo used to purchase the slaves still represented the single largest expense incurred by the owners and over half of total costs for the entire enterprise. Two-thirds of the outfitting costs of the French slavers in the eighteenth century were also made up of the goods used to purchase slaves

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Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
 
Oh Jesus, lets not go over this sh!t again! You have yet to show where Britain could get "cheaper" slaves. Britain became wealthy and powerful because of the slave trade and imperialism, get over it.

And the books I cited are there for all to read. Your attempt at Khaldun's defense is useless.
 

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Posted by Yonis2 (Member # 11348) on :
 

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Originally posted by argyle104:
Also Yonis you have yet to explain why and I quote:


"East indian slaves were insignificant compared to west/central african slaves".


Also if so called east indian/south Asians were brought over as slaves. How in the world can your map show only Africans from below the sahara as slaves.


Logically Algeria, Morocco, Mauritania, and Mali are alot closer to the United States and the Caribbean than Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, and Sri Lanka.


On what basis did you leave out Algeria, Morocco, Mauritania, and Mali as not having people from those areas as slaves in the so called "new world".


Yonis do you even attempt to logically think things through before you post or do you let the khat do your thinking for you? : )

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Originally posted by anguishofbeing:


And the books I cited are there for all to read. Your attempt at Khaldun's defense is useless.

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Originally posted by anguishofbeing:

I read Khaldun's statements in Image of the Black in Western Art as well as Golden age of the Moor. It has been explained away by some as simply "environmental determinism" and not racism; but this is a weak apologia as Maimonides, Hegel and many Europeans had this view, that does not mean they were not racist for seeing certain blacks as of animal stage.

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The issue here is about the power and influence of these societies

Did the Sahara create a racial barrier so people in the north were racist against those of the south?



How do the people of the north, the allegedly racist people, have a significant advantage so that they could feel they had a supremacy over the people of the south equivalent to 19th century Europeans?
 

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Posted by markellion (Member # 14131) on :
 
The information in these two threads shows some picture of these relations. The book "QURAN
A Reformist Translation" talks allot about Arabic translations and how the meanings of words have been changed. Many other words have been changed over time and so could lead to confusion

The information here also shows how these relations were very different compared to relations with Europeans in the 18th/19th centuries

"Dana Marniche"

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=002617

"African Christianity influence on Islam"

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=002561
 

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Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
 
Your attempt to explain away his racist quotes is as pathetic as Jews and their apologists trying to explain away the anti-black racism in the Babylonian Talmud.

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If this translation doesn't show racism from Ibn Khaldun then he wasn't a racist

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Posted by markellion (Member # 14131) on :
 
Show me racist quotes from anywhere in this book

"The Negroland of the Arabs examined and explained" 1841

http://books.google.com/books?id=380NAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA61#v=onepage&q=&f=false

Also how could he be racist if these societies were not so far apart in development? You are the one that has done no explaining
 

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Posted by markellion (Member # 14131) on :
 
How could this person have racist attitudes?

"The Negroland of the Arabs examined and explained" By William Desborough Cooley 1841 page footnotes at bottom of page 72

http://books.google.com/books?id=380NAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA72#v=onepage&q=&f=false

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Respecting the Masufah, who were generally called el Takshif, that is, the scouts or couriers, and who appear to have occupied the whole road from TeghSza to Tomboktu, there is a passage in Ibn Khaldun (fol. 89) which, with a little abridgment, is worth transcribing.—"After the fall of the Morabite dynasty, the tribes of the Molaththemun returned to the desert, and now occupy the countries which they originally possessed in the vicinity of Negroland. But as we have already observed, the emigration of the Zenagah tribes was but partial: a few only of the Masfifah and Lumtunah obeyed the impulse, while the majority of the tribes remained behind, and keep in our days their old settlements in the Sahra, paying tribute to the Kings of Negroland, on whom they depend, and in whose armies they serve. The Goddalah are directly opposite to the DhawiHassan, a branch of the Moakel Arabs, settled in Siis el Aksa ; the Lumtunah are opposite to the Dhawi-Mansiir and Dhawi 'Obeidu-llah, branches of the same great tribe living in Maghrebu-l-Aksa. The Masufoh face the Zaghabah, an Arab tribe in Maghrebu-l-Ausat ; and the Lamtah adjoin the Benu Riyyah, who occupy Ez-Zab."—Thus it appears that the Masufah inhabiting the tract of desert between Sijilmesah and Tomboktu were in their old settlements, and, therefore, in the tract between Sijilmesah and Ghanah. (See page 17.) Leo (pt. I. c. 17-19) points out the situation of the various families of the Machil (Moakel) tribe of Arabs.

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quote:

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Originally posted by markellion:
Also how could he be racist if these societies were not so far apart in development? You are the one that has done no explaining

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^ so the Jews who wrote the racist passages in the Babylonian Talmud were more developed than blacks? Or are you going to argue that they weren't racist too?
 

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Posted by markellion (Member # 14131) on :
 
I really don't know what to make of that. I know there are also positive views of "blackness" maybe the people that wrote the Ham story were jealous

"Catholic Europe biggest Afronuts for Black Jesus and Mary" by alTakruri



http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=002408



 

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Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
 
Yonis wrote:

quote:

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Learn the concept of demand and supply before attempting to act all philosophical on such a simple matter you retard.

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quote:

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The actual number of white mulatto slaves is unknowable because all shades from "one drop" to those showing some discernible degree of black admixture were classed together as mulattoes without any distinction as to color.

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http://multiracial.com/site/content/view/460/27
 

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Posted by arreubinsoni (Member # 12885) on :
 
Jari-Ankhamun


quote:
"Turnbull and his group, made up of adventurers, indentured servants and slaves from Spain, Italy and Greece, landed in what is now New Smyrna Beach in 1768."
Why does the above make you angry?

its too simple, argyle, y he's angry.
+ =
 

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Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
 
Folks take a real gander at this thread it is full of historically unchallengeable facts.


Ish Gebor, ausar, alTakuri, Wally, and djehuti will be most distressed by this thread.


Oh the tears. : )
 

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Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
 
Thoughts on the non-"west" African component to modern slavery anyone?


If not why?


Is it because your interest only lies in "west" Africans being the only people of recent slavery?


If so why?
 

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Posted by Whatbox (Member # 10819) on :
 
That map retardedly posted by Yonis only shows places where there were traders or slaves directly in contact with Euros, including the Kongo Kingdom in Central Africa (I believe with them were the Portuguese whom they let in to their Kingdom).

We know where the Euros bought both servants and abducted folk, and abducted slaves from.

The map says nothing about the numbers of slaves from one place or the other nor from whence they came.

Wasn't Southeastern Africa the second largest source of slaves?
 

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