Originally posted by xyyman:
We have come a long way..
quote:There are more paleskinned people in USA than people of African descent. The so-called "whites" would have NO problem absorbing the American-Africans if they so wanted.
Originally posted by CelticWarrioress:
I'm not Lioness but still I'll bite. A few quotes if you will.
"We must realize that our party's most powerful weapon is racial tensions. By propounding into the consciousness of the dark races that for centuries they have been oppressed by Whites, we can mold them to the program of the Communist Party. In America we will aim for subtle victory. While inflaming the Negro minority against the Whites, we will endeavor to instill in the Whites a guilt complex for their exploitation of the Negros. We will aid the Negroes to rise in prominence in every walk of life, in the professions and in the world of sports and entertainment. With this prestige, the Negro will be able to intermarry with the Whites and begin a process which will deliver America to our cause."
Ohh and this one too
"We will openly reveal our identity with the races of Asia or Africa. I can state with assurance that the last generation of White children is now being born. Our control commission will, in the interests of peace and wiping out inter-racial tensions, forbid the Whites to mate with Whites. The white women must co-habit with members of the dark races, the White man with black women. Thus the White race will disappear, for mixing the dark with the White means the end of the White Man, and our most dangerous enemy will become only a memory. We shall embark upon an era of ten thousand years of peace and plenty, the Pax Judiaca, and OUR RACE will rule undisputed over the world. Our superior intelligence will enable us to retain mastery over a world of dark peoples."
Sounds to me XyYTHater, its a plan to get rid of Whitey. Seems you should be very pleased with that & should support it 100%. After all that's exactly what your Anti-White, Black racist, Black supremacist self wants, Whitey gone, no more Whitey, no more White children won't that be grand for you Whitey hater??
quote:Both blacks and whites are being phased out
Originally posted by xyyman:
I have been seeing more and more of this on TV shows and Tv commercials. Is a message being subliminally sent out. We are accustomed with black athletes and white women.
this trend is really new. What are they up to?
quote:The term "white race" or "white people" only began to enter the major European languages in the later 17th century,
Originally posted by CelticWarrioress:
XyYTHater, the first one is from - A Racial Program for the Twentieth Century by Israel Cohen. Alot of people say its a Anti-Semetic hoax but its very funny how everything stated is happening isn't it.
The second was by a Rabbi Rabinovich, again some say he never existed & its a Anti-Semetic hoax. Funny again though its happening & they are actually bragging now that White babies are a minority of births & how the world of the future will be devoid of Whitey. Hmmm.
Nope not Whitey XyYTHater, notice they said that Whitey was their biggest enemy. Its Jews who said those things. If you noticed they are now beginning to reject being called White & are teaching their Jewish youth they are not White (the truth they aren't White). With their I'm not White, I'm Jewish. The only group who hates Whitey probably more than you Blacks LOL.
quote:As long as Obama approved it
Originally posted by xyyman:
Lioness, As a "black female" . You ok with the plan?
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
quote:
Originally posted by CelticWarrioress:
However I do hate ,,,, Black ...Supremacists such as yourself.
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by kdolo:
[QB] 1. Kosher Soul: new reality show.
White "jew" woman and Negro/Black American man married....
2. Focus: movie ..Will Smith and "blond" Margot Robbie
/QUOTE]
look at the thread title again
quote:You're right about the part that Jews aren't white people.
Originally posted by CelticWarrioress:
Kdolo, First you stupid Black racist, Black supremacist, White child hating scum bag, Jews are NOT White you peon. Second like King you call the "good Whites" ones that are willing to betray, destroy, tear down their own people & kiss Black booty, grovel at the feet of Blacks, who worship at & are willing to offer up their children as as sacrifice at the alter of the Negro for your sake. Third we are NOT Albinos we do NOT have albinism & our identity as White is NOT fake. There you go trying to strip Whites of an identity again, saying we don't exist you and the half Jew half Black anti-White Lioness.
quote:http://www.scienceworldreport.com/articles/10059/20131009/dna-samples-confirm-ashkenazi-jews-are-of-european-descent-study.htm
DNA Samples Confirm Ashkenazi Jews are of European Descent: Study
[...]
A latest DNA study solves the long standing controversy regarding the origin of Europe's Ashkenazi Jews stating that their maternal lineage came from Europe.
[...]
The researchers at the University of Huddersfield used archaeogenetics to solve the controversy of the origin of Ashkenazi Jews of whether they migrated from Palestine in the first century AD or their ancestors were Europeans who converted to Judaism.
quote:http://www.livescience.com/40247-ashkenazi-jews-have-european-genes.html
Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European
Though the finding may seem intuitive, it contradicts the notion that European Jews mostly descend from people who left Israel and the Middle East around 2,000 years ago. Instead, a substantial proportion of the population originates from local Europeans who converted to Judaism, said study co-author Martin Richards, an archaeogeneticist at the University of Huddersfield in England.
The genetics suggest many of the founding Ashkenazi women were actually converts from local European populations.
quote:Says the white supremacists and hater.
Originally posted by CelticWarrioress:
I didn't say I didn't like Jews XyYThater. I dislike some Jews yes just like I dislike some Blacks. However I do hate all Anti-White, Whitey hating, Black or Jew racists, Black or Jew Supremacists such as yourself.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
quote:.
The genetics suggest many of the founding Ashkenazi women were actually converts from local European populations.
quote:You still don't get it
Originally posted by xyyman:
the slap
headless horsman
scandal
numerous commercials etc\\
maybe I will make a list. There is definitely an uptick
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by kdolo:
[QB] 1. Kosher Soul: new reality show.
White "jew" woman and Negro/Black American man married....
2. Focus: movie ..Will Smith and "blond" Margot Robbie
/QUOTE]
look at the thread title again
quote:Who they are, and what they did, won't make sense unless you know the politics of the times. i.e. they were Khazar Turks who were caught between the Byzantine Roman Empire which was Christianity. And the freshly victorious Arabs which were Muslims.
Originally posted by kdolo:
"The standard hypothesis is that the Ashkenazis are Levantine on the male side and European on the female side--though not exclusively."
In other words "Ashkenazi Jews" are not real Jews ... no connection whatsoever to Hebrews of the Bible. Judaism requires matrilineal descent - one is a Jew because their mother is a Jew.......
Testing has revealed that the female line is NOT Jewish ...
So then who are these imposters ??? simply a group of people who adopted Judaism and have created a false identity for themselves .....
Asiatic Khazars who moved into Europe
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:You still don't get it
Originally posted by xyyman:
the slap
headless horsman
scandal
numerous commercials etc\\
maybe I will make a list. There is definitely an uptick
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by kdolo:
[QB] 1. Kosher Soul: new reality show.
White "jew" woman and Negro/Black American man married....
2. Focus: movie ..Will Smith and "blond" Margot Robbie
/QUOTE]
look at the thread title again
the thread theme is white men with black women
yet your exmaples were the reverse
quote:what's long way about it?
Originally posted by xyyman:
We have come a long way..
quote:You say it started over the last 2-3 years.
Originally posted by xyyman:
There is definitely a big push to showing White male and black female in advertisements. Started over the last 2-3 years. Not sure what that is about.
But to Dhoxie post, sources of those quotes?
sides, it seems to me that "Our superior intelligence will enable us to retain mastery over a world of dark peoples"
A few whites remain pure who will rule over the more populous darker races?
Not being a racist, I am eeeehh on the issue. But when it is being "forced" on us then it becomes an issue.
quote:What the motive is, is uncertain. But surely something is being forced.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
what is the motive?
quote:
Originally posted by CelticWarrioress:
Troll Patrol, Sorry to tell you but a White person claiming what rightfully belongs to us is NOT being a White supremacist. You and your ilk (Mike, Kdolo, Habsburg, Narmer,Clyde, XyYThater,etc) hate all White people & want to claim that every important person or group of people in history were Black & that Whites are inferior non-humans, who have no right to exist, no history, nowhere on earth we belong, no heritage, no identity, who have accomplished nothing & built nothing.
Funny, how you Black men find absolutely nothing wrong with Black men getting with White women or portrayed as being with White women. However you get in an uproar when its a Black woman getting with a White man or even portrayed as being with a White man.
quote:
Originally posted by CelticWarrioress:
Funny, how you Black men find absolutely nothing wrong with Black men getting with White women or portrayed as being with White women. However you get in an uproar when its a Black woman getting with a White man or even portrayed as being with a White man.
quote:Ashkenazi Jews (70-75% of the Jewish population) have been intermarrying for hundreds of years with Europeans, particularly in Central Europe. A lot of this also accounts for their higher frequency of blonde/red hair and light eyes, opposed to the Mizrahim and Sephardic Jews who are mostly all (with very few exceptions) brown eyed and dark haired.
Originally posted by CelticWarrioress:
Kdolo, First you stupid Black racist, Black supremacist, White child hating scum bag, Jews are NOT White you peon. Second like King you call the "good Whites" ones that are willing to betray, destroy, tear down their own people & kiss Black booty, grovel at the feet of Blacks, who worship at & are willing to offer up their children as as sacrifice at the alter of the Negro for your sake. Third we are NOT Albinos we do NOT have albinism & our identity as White is NOT fake. There you go trying to strip Whites of an identity again, saying we don't exist you and the half Jew half Black anti-White Lioness.
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
quote:Its clearly admixture. North and East Africa are more admixed because they are closer to Eurasia.
See it increases in frequency towards North Africa. That is NOT admixture that is purification ie "selective sweep".
quote:
Originally posted by xyyman:
I know you don't know much about genetics but no one is 100% anything. Someone can explain this to you. Not saying some Aframs ain't admixed but even continentals carry "Eurasian" genes. See the brownn slice of the pie chart? Basque. See it increases in frequency towards North Africa. That is NOT admixture that is purification ie "selective sweep".
ALL the colors of the pie chart increases away from Africa. ALL IS AFRiCAN!!! ALL genes.
quote:So the modern Egyptians are primarily descendants of ancient Egyptians
Originally posted by xyyman:
You don’t get don’t you? The genetic pattern do NOT support the Eurocentric BS written in the “history books”. I just found it there are more fake Royals. Royals claiming to be descendents of Maire antoinette are imposters. Will post on it on ESR. Gnetic is gogint oexposed the truth.
But
The genetic pattern
1. Do not support and “Arab” occupation of North Africa. Henn et el(In her back-migration paper clearly states that) She assume if there was back-migration it tool place about 35,000YEARS AGO!!! Per Henn and many researchers. There was no Vandal, Roman and other European occupation as described in the “history” books.
2. The Only genetic pathern that supports foreign occupation of Africa and the Levant and Arabia is the Ottoman Turks.
So creating a hyperthetical argument is really irritating.
I repeat, ALL the clusters radiate AWAY from Africa. The pattern is consistent with differentiation by distnace ie slective sweep originating FROM Africa. It is NOT consistent with occupation.
quote:xyyman the fact that you cannot answer this simple serious question shows the readership that you are not confident in these issues and only have scattered remarks which stay scattered and don't add up
Originally posted by the lioness,:
xyyman are modern Egyptians and Libyans predominanatly African?
quote:lol. Let them take the royal euro history if they want.
Originally posted by CelticWarrioress:
Still waiting for the answer to these questions XyYThater. Exactly how am I a White supremacist, when I have never claimed anything other than European history unlike you & your ilk who claim everyone & every group important in history as black which is NOT White supremacy. I also have never stated that Blacks were inferior non-humans like you and your ilk (Mike, Troll Patrol, Narmer, Kdolo, Habsburg, Jantavanta,Kikuyu,Doug,BonamPak,Mena7, NonTruthhitman) have said about Whites. I have also never said that Blacks had no place on earth they belong like you & your ilk (the above mentioned) have said about Whites. I have never stated Blacks have never accomplished or built anything like you & your ilk (the above mentioned) have stated about Whites. I have never stated Blacks have no history, no heritage, no identity like you & your ilk (the above mentioned) have stated about Whites. I also have never tried to make Blacks ashamed of their skin color unlike you and your ilk (The above mentioned) who have tried to make Whites ashamed of our skin color.
Most of the royals were highly inbred, insane, with disease and a tun of sick fetish.
quote:The pattern of mean craniometric variation among modern Europeans is only traceable to the Late Neolithic/Chalcolithic, the same for China, and pretty much everywhere else. In fact Africa is slightly even more recent. Asselar Man (c. 4500 BC) for example isn't exactly "negroid":
Originally posted by xyyman:
The Neolithics were undoubtedly recent Tropical people's as Sergi suggested. The only puzzle that remains is....is it plasticity as Cass pointed out to account for the substantial morphological change or was it population replacement ....at least along the male line? The incoming farming women and men were undoubtedly African type peoples. The female line still remains.
But oddly these researchers focus on the female line which are predominantly hgH. The few male lines disclosed are NOT reflective of modern Euro males.
quote:xyyman at the bottom of the chart you have listed Algeria 91%
Originally posted by xyyman:
Notice the "Jewish" population in Morocco and Egypt 1/2 is very similar. Morocco is half way across the continent. These people are "foriegners", they are not indigenous to Africa. Notice the "interior" populations do NOT have these AIM. That geographic pattern is consistent with OCCUPATION. So to answer your question.
Some populations in Africa are transplants. Primarily found in SOME Moroccoan, Egyptian and Lybians groups. In Tunisia there is European admixture. But the Saharawi contain ZERO AIM cf to Europeans.
The same pattern is seen with sex markers.
quote:Cosigned,
Originally posted by Dead:
quote:Its clearly admixture. North and East Africa are more admixed because they are closer to Eurasia.
See it increases in frequency towards North Africa. That is NOT admixture that is purification ie "selective sweep".
If you look at African admixture in Europe you see this as well, where Southern Europeans are more admixed because they are closer to Africa than Northern Europe.
quote:
Originally posted by CelticWarrioress:
XyYTHater, exactly how am I a White supremacist, when I have never claimed anything other than European history unlike you which is NOT White supremacy. I also have never stated that Blacks were inferior non-humans like you and your ilk (Mike, Troll Patrol, Narmer, Kdolo, Habsburg, Jantavanta,Kikuyu,Doug,BonamPak,Mena7, NonTruthhitman) have said about Whites. I have also never said that Blacks had no place on earth they belong like you & your ilk (the above mentioned) have said about Whites. I have never stated Blacks have never accomplished or built anything like you & your ilk (the above mentioned) have stated about Whites. I have never stated Blacks have no history, no heritage, no identity like you & your ilk (the above mentioned) have stated about Whites. I also have never tried to make Blacks ashamed of their skin color unlike you and your ilk (The above mentioned) who have tried to make Whites ashamed of our skin color. Nope you can have all the White skanks, bimbos & bimbettes, sluts you wish to have it removes self haters & traitors from the gene pool LOL.
Dead, exactly how is saying Jews & Turks are not White bashing them pray do tell?
quote:
Originally posted by Dead:
quote:The pattern of mean craniometric variation among modern Europeans is only traceable to the Late Neolithic/Chalcolithic, the same for China, and pretty much everywhere else. In fact Africa is slightly even more recent. Asselar Man (c. 4500 BC) for example isn't exactly "negroid":
Originally posted by xyyman:
The Neolithics were undoubtedly recent Tropical people's as Sergi suggested. The only puzzle that remains is....is it plasticity as Cass pointed out to account for the substantial morphological change or was it population replacement ....at least along the male line? The incoming farming women and men were undoubtedly African type peoples. The female line still remains.
But oddly these researchers focus on the female line which are predominantly hgH. The few male lines disclosed are NOT reflective of modern Euro males.
"Asselar man is not very like the modern West African Negro, however, and the fully differentiated Negro may have arisen more recently." (Cole, 1965)
So those craniometric means for modern West-Central African populations ("negroids") are very recent, within historical times.
What you had in Africa until as late as 3000 BC, was a widespread undifferentiated "Africoid". This is why old anthropologists found a mixture of Bushmanoid/Negroid/Pygmid/Ethiopid everywhere. Its because regional/population means or a craniometric structure in Africa hadn't yet appeared.
quote:A) WRONG
Originally posted by xyyman:
A) African skulls only go back to about 4000BC.
B) All other African skulls prior to that was of “Bushman” type
found even in North Africa.
quote:
Originally posted by CelticWarrioress:
Troll Patrol, try to bully & harass me into leaving the forum all you want Whitey hater I'm NOT going anywhere you Black racist, Black supremacist pos bitch.
quote:--Anahit Hovhannisyan
Recent discoveries indicating a third population, the Northern Eurasians, contributing their genetic legacy to modern Europeans, has further added to the complexity of these models [18].
[...]
The intricacies of these migratory events with varying patterns of cultural and demographic diffusion in different regions require the development of relevant models reflecting the process of Neolithic dispersal throughout Eurasia [7].
quote:Xyyman, You need to invest more time in reading about anthropology and archeology. What you've stated is incorrect.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:A) WRONG
Originally posted by xyyman:
A) African skulls only go back to about 4000BC.
B) All other African skulls prior to that was of “Bushman” type
found even in North Africa.
B) WRONG
quote:http://static-content.springer.com/lookinside/art%3A10.1007%2Fs10437-011-9100-x/001.png
The Upper Palaeolithic Lithic Industry of Nazlet Khater 4 (Egypt): Implications for the Stone Age/Palaeolithic of Northeastern Africa
quote:--Alice Leplongeon, David Pleurdeau
Between Marine Isotope Stage (MIS) 4 and 2, Northeast Africa witnessed migrations of Homo sapiens into Eurasia. Within the context of the aridification of the Sahara, the Nile Valley probably offered a very attractive corridor into Eurasia. This region and this period are therefore central for the (pre)history of the out-of-Africa peopling of modern humans. However, there are very few sites from the beginning of the Upper Palaeolithic that document these migration events. In Egypt, the site of Nazlet Khater 4 (NK4), which is related to ancient H. sapiens quarrying activities, is one of them. Its lithic assemblage shows an important laminar component, and this, associated with its chronological position (ca. 33 ka), means that the site is the most ancient Upper Palaeolithic sites of this region. The detailed study of the Nazlet Khater 4 lithic material shows that blade production (volumetric reduction) is also associated with flake production (surface reduction). This technological duality addresses the issue of direct attribution of NK4 to the Upper Palaeolithic."
quote:--Thoma A., Morphology and affinities of the Nazlet Khater man,
Nazlet Khater man was the earliest modern human skeleton found near Luxor, in 1980. The remains was dated from between 35,000 and 30,000 years ago. The report regarding the racial affinity of this skeleton concludes: "Strong alveolar prognathism combined with fossa praenasalis in an African skull is suggestive of Negroid morphology [form & structure]. The radio-humeral index of Nazlet Khater is practically the same as the mean of Taforalt (76.6). According to Ferembach (1965) this value is near to the Negroid average." The burial was of a young man of 17-20 years old, whose skeleton lay in a 160cm- long narrow ditch aligned from east to west. A flint tool, which was laid carefully on the bottom of the grave, dates the burial as contemporaneous with a nearby flint quarry."
quote:--Pinhasi R1, Semal P.
The morphometric affinities of the 33,000 year old skeleton from Nazlet Khater, Upper Egypt are examined using multivariate statistical procedures
"The morphometric affinities of the 33,000 year old skeleton from Nazlet Khater, Upper Egypt are examined using multivariate statistical procedures. In the first part, principal components analysis is performed on a dataset of mandible dimensions of 220 fossils, sub-fossils and modern specimens, ranging in time from the Late Pleistocene to recent and restricted in space to the African continent and Southern Levant. In the second part, mean measurements for various prehistoric and modern African and Levantine populations are incorporated in the statistical analysis. Subsequently, differences between male and female means are examined for some of the modern and prehistoric populations. The results indicate a strong association between some of the sub-Saharan Middle Stone Age (MSA) specimens, and the Nazlet Khater mandible. Furthermore, the results suggest that variability between African populations during the Neolithic and Protohistoric periods was more pronounced than the range of variability observed among recent African and Levantine populations. Results also demonstrate a general reduction in the degree of sexual dimorphism during the Holocene. However, this pattern of reduction pattern varies by geographic location and is not uniform across the African continent."
quote:You're right the "coid" stem is outdated terminology.
Originally posted by xyyman:
I am really NOT clear on Africoid and Negroid etc.
Cass can speak for himself, but he is differentiating "Negro" and "Africoid". Africoid = "EurAfricans" ie "Negro" with "Caucasoid" features.
In other words Africoids/EurAfricans are indigenous Africans.
As we go further West IN Africa the Skulls discovered are NOT like modern Africans.
This has been substantiated by
Bantu Theory’s Many Troubling Issues - By Israel Ntaganzwa, Jan 2015
Meaning Bantus are new migrants in West Africa.
I am open to correction. ie present Skull metrics of West Africans going back further than 4000BC and who they cluster with.
quote:For further information, read the publications by M. Honegger.
El-Barga reveals one of the most important necropoleis of the early Holocene in Africa.
This site was discovered in 2001 during a survey concentrating on the zones bordering the alluvial plain. The name el-Barga is borrowed from a nearby mountain. The site is located on an elevation formed by an outcrop of bedrock (Nubian sandstone) less than 15 km from the Nile, as the crow flies. It includes a settlement area dated to circa 7500 B.C. and cemeteries belonging to two distinct periods.
The habitation is a circular hut slightly less than five metres in diameter, its maximum depth exceeding 50 centimetres. This semi-subterranean structure contained a wealth of artefacts resulting from the site’s occupation (ceramics, grinding tools, flint objects, ostrich eggshell beads, a mother-of-pearl pendant, bone tools, faunal remains, shells). The abundance of artefacts discovered suggests a marked inclination towards a sedentary lifestyle, even though certain activities (fishing and hunting) necessitate seasonal migration.
North of this habitation, about forty burials were dated to the Epipalaeolithic (7700-7000 B.C.) and generally do not contain any furnishings. On the other hand, the Neolithic cemetery (6000-5500 B.C.) located further south comprises about a hundred burials often containing artefacts (adornment, ceramics, flint or bone objects).
quote:Crainiometry is of limited value. Look it up
Originally posted by xyyman:
I am not as knowledgeable on craniometry but an explanation is needed.
quote:You seem not to understand the historical period of the Bantu expansion.
Originally posted by xyyman:
I have shown that there was no such thing as a Bantu Expansion and that “Bantus” of West Africa are new migrants from the Nile region into West Africa.
quote:"West African" crania clusters with ancient Natufians.
Originally posted by xyyman:
I am asking who the ancient West African(Not the Sahara region) skulls cluster with? I am NOT disputing “Africans being indigenous to Africa” in Eastern Africa.
quote:--C Brace (2005)
The surprise is that the Neolithic peoples of Europe and their Bronze Age successors are not closely related to the modern inhabitants, although the prehistoric/modern ties are somewhat more apparent in southern Europe. It is a further surprise that the Epipalaeolithic Natufian of Israel from whom the Neolithic realm was assumed to arise has a clear link to Sub-Saharan Africa...
quote:http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Francois_Ricaut/publication/24252915_Cranial_discrete_traits_in_a_Byzantine_population_and_eastern_Mediterranean_population_movements/links/0dee c525ed6af8637e000000.pdf
"From the Mesolithic to the early Neolithic period different lines of evidence support an out-of-Africa Mesolithic migration to the Levant by northeastern African groups that had biological affinities with sub-Saharan populations. From a genetic point of view, several recent genetic studies have shown that sub-Sabaran genetic lineages (affiliated with the Y-chromosome PN2 clade; Underhill et al. 2001) have spread through Egypt into the Near East, the Mediterranean area, and, for some lineages, as far north as Turkey (E3b-M35 Y lineage; Cinniogclu et al. 2004; Luis et al. 2004), probably during several dispersal episodes since the Mesolithic (Cinniogelu et al. 2004; King et al. 2008; Lucotte and Mercier 2003; Luis et al. 2004; Quintana-Murci et al. 1999; Semino et al. 2004; Underhill et al. 2001). This finding is in agreement with morphological data that suggest that populations with sub-Saharan morphological elements were present in northeastern Africa, from the Paleolithic to at least the early Holocene, and diffused northward to the Levant and Anatolia beginning in the Mesolithic.
Indeed, the rare and incomplete Paleolithic to early Neolithic skeletal specimens found in Egypt - such as the 33,000-year-old Nazlet Khater specimen (Pinhasi and Semai 2000), the Wadi Kubbaniya skeleton from the late Paleolithic site in the upper Nile valley (Wendorf et al. 1986), the Qarunian (Faiyum) early Neolithic crania (Henneberg et al. 1989; Midant-Reynes 2000), and the Nabta specimen from the Neolithic Nabta Playa site in the western desert of Egypt (Henneberg et al. 1980) - show, with regard to the great African biological diversity, similarities with some of the sub-Saharan middle Paleolithic and modern sub-Saharan specimens.
This affinity pattern between ancient Egyptians and sub-Saharans has also been noticed by several other investigators (Angel 1972; Berry and Berry 1967, 1972; Keita 1995) and has been recently reinforced by the study of Brace et al. (2005), which clearly shows that the cranial morphology of prehistoric and recent northeast African populations is linked to sub-Saharan populations (Niger-Congo populations). These results support the hypothesis that some of the Paleolithic-early Holocene populations from northeast Africa were probably descendents of sub-Saharan ancestral populations...... This northward migration of northeastern African populations carrying sub-Saharan biological elements is concordant with the morphological homogeneity of the Natufian populations (Bocquentin 2003), which present morphological affinity with sub-Saharan populations (Angel 1972; Brace et al. 2005).
In addition, the Neolithic revolution was assumed to arise in the late Pleistocene Natufians and subsequently spread into Anatolia and Europe (Bar-Yosef 2002), and the first Anatolian farmers, Neolithic to Bronze Age Mediterraneans and to some degree other Neolithic-Bronze Age Europeans, show morphological affinities with the Natufians (and indirectly with sub-Saharan populations; Angel 1972; Brace et al. 2005), in concordance with a process of demie diffusion accompanying the extension of the Neolithic revolution (Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1994)." .
quote:http://www.hadashot-esi.org.il/report_detail_eng.asp?id=809&mag_id=114
The site of Beisamoun is located in the western margins of the Hula Basin, c. 10 km south of Qiryat Shemona. A moderate Mediterranean climate and water resources in the immediate vicinity of the site, such as the ‘Enan and Agamon springs, were one of the major factors for establishing prehistoric settlements in this region, one of which was ‘Ein Mallaha, a major Natufian site in the Levant.
quote:
In the Levant—the area that today encompasses Israel, the Palestinian territories, Lebanon, Jordan, and western Syria—archaeologists had discovered settlements dating as far back as 13,000 B.C. Known as Natufian villages (the name comes from the first of these sites to be found), they sprang up across the Levant as the Ice Age was drawing to a close, ushering in a time when the region's climate became relatively warm and wet.
The discovery of the Natufians was the first rock through the window of Childe's Neolithic Revolution. Childe had thought agriculture the necessary spark that led to villages and ignited civilization. Yet although the Natufians lived in permanent settlements of up to several hundred people, they were foragers, not farmers, hunting gazelles and gathering wild rye, barley, and wheat. "It was a big sign that our ideas needed to be revised," says Harvard University archaeologist Ofer Bar-Yosef.
Natufian villages ran into hard times around 10,800 B.C., when regional temperatures abruptly fell some 12°F, part of a mini ice age that lasted 1,200 years and created much drier conditions across the Fertile Crescent. With animal habitat and grain patches shrinking, a number of villages suddenly became too populous for the local food supply. Many people once again became wandering foragers, searching the landscape for remaining food sources.
[...]
The Natufian sites in the Levant suggested instead that settlement came first and that farming arose later, as a product of crisis. Confronted with a drying, cooling environment and growing populations, humans in the remaining fecund areas thought, as Bar-Yosef puts it, "If we move, these other folks will exploit our resources. The best way for us to survive is to settle down and exploit our own area." Agriculture followed.
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/print/2011/06/gobekli-tepe/mann-text
quote:http://www.nhm.ac.uk/about-us/news/2014/june/missing-human-fossils-rediscovered131622.html
Out of Africa
The majority of the rediscovered fossil material was from Shukbah Cave, the site where Garrod first described the Natufian culture that existed 12-15,000 years ago.
The Natufian artefacts and sites showed some evidence of early agriculture, as well as settlements and even some of the first evidence of dog domestication.
Another smaller collection of material likely dates back to around 50,000 years ago. The location and timing of this material means it may cover the period of overlap between the last Neanderthals and early modern humans in Israel.
‘Very few early modern human fossils exist that date to [this period] and the material is therefore very significant,’ said Dr Isabelle De Groote, now at Liverpool John Moores University.
‘It has the potential to answer important questions about the dispersal of anatomically modern humans out of Africa
quote:--C.L. Brace (2006)
If the late Pleistocene Natufian sample from Israel is the source from which that Neolithic spread was derived, there was clearly a sub-Saharan African element present of almost equal importance as the Late Prehistoric Eurasian element.
quote:--f. x. ricaut1 and m. waelkens1
In addition, the Neolithic revolution was assumed to arise in the late Pleistocene Natufians and subsequently spread into Anatolia and Europe (Bar-Yosef 2002), and the first Anatolian farmers, Neolithic to Bronze Age Mediterraneans and to some degree other Neolithic-Bronze Age Europeans, show morphological affinities with the Natufians (and indirectly with sub-Saharan populations; Angel 1972; Brace et al. 2006), in concordance with a process of demie diffusion accompanying the extension of the Neolithic revolution (Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1994)."
quote:--Backwella, d'Erricob, and Wadleyd (2008) Middle Stone Age bone tools from the Howiesons Poort layers, Sibudu Cave, South Africa. Journal of Archaeological Science. Volume 35, Issue 6, June 2008, Pages 1566–1580
Recently discovered bone implements from Middle Stone Age (MSA) deposits at Sibudu Cave, South Africa, confirm the existence of a bone tool industry for the Howiesons Poort (HP) technocomplex. Previously, an isolated bone point from Klasies River provided inconclusive evidence. This paper describes three bone tools: two points and the end of a polished spatula-shaped piece, from unequivocal HP layers at Sibudu Cave (with ages greater than ?61 ka). Comparative microscopic and morphometric analysis of the Sibudu specimens together with bone tools from southern African Middle and Later Stone Age (LSA) deposits, an Iron Age occupation, nineteenth century Bushman hunter-gatherer toolkits, and bone tools used experimentally in a variety of tasks, reveals that the Sibudu polished piece has use-wear reminiscent of that on bones experimentally used to work animal hides. A slender point is consistent with a pin or needle-like implement, while a larger point, reminiscent of the single specimen from Peers Cave, parallels large un-poisoned bone arrow points from LSA, Iron Age and historical Bushman sites. Additional support for the Sibudu point having served as an arrow tip comes from backed lithics in the HP compatible with this use, and the recovery of older, larger bone and lithic points from Blombos Cave, interpreted as spear heads. If the bone point from the HP layers at Sibudu Cave is substantiated by future discoveries, this will push back the origin of bow and bone arrow technology by at least 20,000 years, and corroborate arguments in favour of the hypothesis that crucial technological innovations took place during the MSA in Africa.
quote:It's not "pro-black". Biracial children are not black, so diluting the black gene pool, thus weakening the ranks of people of African descent is not being "pro black". That's genetic annihilation, nothing else.
Originally posted by Truthcentric:
The question I wish to raise is why you guys see white male/black female couples as inherently harmful to the welfare of black people. You all seem to be assuming it has to be the black women who are spurning their own community to be with white and other non-black men. Has it occurred to no one that there might also exist non-black men who appreciate the beauty of African women and seek long-term relationships with them? If anything, white guys flocking to black women for love sounds more pro-black than pro-white to me.
quote:genetic annihilation is what nature wants
Originally posted by Snakepit1:
quote:It's not "pro-black". Biracial children are not black, so diluting the black gene pool, thus weakening the ranks of people of African descent is not being "pro black". That's genetic annihilation, nothing else.
Originally posted by Truthcentric:
The question I wish to raise is why you guys see white male/black female couples as inherently harmful to the welfare of black people. You all seem to be assuming it has to be the black women who are spurning their own community to be with white and other non-black men. Has it occurred to no one that there might also exist non-black men who appreciate the beauty of African women and seek long-term relationships with them? If anything, white guys flocking to black women for love sounds more pro-black than pro-white to me.
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
[.., over many generations they will start to transform genetically and phenotypically - that is what happened to the original Africans who left Africa
quote:
Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:
quote:"West African" crania clusters with ancient Natufians.
Originally posted by xyyman:
I am asking who the ancient West African(Not the Sahara region) skulls cluster with? I am NOT disputing “Africans being indigenous to Africa” in Eastern Africa.
But there is likely not just one particular type of crania.
In Hot Pursuit of Language in Prehistory: Essays in the Four Fields of Anthropology : in Honor of Harold Crane Fleming
--John Benjamins Publishing, 2008
quote:wrong Natufians are 13,000 to 11,000 B.C. in the Levant, in Israel. Not 8000 BC
Originally posted by xyyman:
[QB] May be I am still not asking it the right way.
Natufians(`8000BC) cluster with MODERN Niger-Congo. That is a given.
quote:The African segment among the Natufians was
Several features stand out quite definitely'' he asserted; first the Natufians were a long-headed people - they had cap-shaped occiputs (the lower back part of the head).
quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:
"In particular, the two groups [dynastic and
late Pleistocene nubians] exhibited a high degree
of overlap in cranial measurements, both had a
high percentage of occipital buns and gonial
eversion, and neither group exhibited bregmatic
bone orOssa Incae (Anderson, 1968; p. 1030)."
--Holliday 2013
"The flattened occipital bone of the non-Bantu
negro skull is a most characteristic feature"
--Morant 1925
quote:
Several features stand out quite definitely'' he asserted; first the Natufians were a long-headed people - they had cap-shaped occiputs (the lower back part of the head).
quote:e 2005 Dec 21. doi: 10.1073/pnas.0509801102
Originally posted by Swenet:
Brace variable-set is known to discriminate
strongly based on flatness/prominence of the
nasal and to a lesser extent, the alveolar
region. Based on Keith's descriptions of the
African featured Natufians in these cranio-
facial regions, Brace results of affinity with
Niger Congo sample would be expected.
quote:While other populations have been out of Africa for 60,000 years or longer xyyman believes modern Europeans have only been out of Africa for less than 5,000 years
Originally posted by xyyman:
E1b1b is NOT E1b1b1c, This is as African as it can get. The lost Neolithic Africans. This is a 18,000ya African clade. Primarily found IN Africa....and now Italy. LOL!
If you haven't connected the dots yet Dhoxie. Europeans are NOT pure. They are a sub-set of ....you know it...AFRICANS.
quote:There is a metric relationship between the
Originally posted by xyyman:
Quote by Swenet:
The Natufian sample doesn't cluster with Niger-
Congo speakers, that's just absurd. It's more
reasonable to say that the Natufian sample Brace
et al used--which is different from the more
Eurasian looking Natufians used by Holliday--
had somewhat distant, but still among the best
available matches with the used Niger Congo
sample, within the context of the used variables.
Again. We do know Niger Congo peoples inhabit East Africa. So, we are still left with Natufians cluster with Niger-Congo and SSA. The Natufians went on into Europe.
quote:Is this not the "true negro" concept alive and well?
Originally posted by Swenet:
The distance between the Natufian and NC samples
in Brace 2005 is so large that it's obvious
that a better African candidate has yet to be
found:
"one can identify Negroid (Ethiopic or Bushmanoid?)
traits of nose and prognathism appearing in Natufian
latest hunters [...] probably from Nubia via
the unknown predecessors of Badarians"
--Larry Angel [/QB]
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:While other populations have been out of Africa for 60,000 years or longer xyyman believes modern Europeans have only been out of Africa for less than 5,000 years
Originally posted by xyyman:
E1b1b is NOT E1b1b1c, This is as African as it can get. The lost Neolithic Africans. This is a 18,000ya African clade. Primarily found IN Africa....and now Italy. LOL!
If you haven't connected the dots yet Dhoxie. Europeans are NOT pure. They are a sub-set of ....you know it...AFRICANS.
and I'm not even joking
quote:You do understand that what makes a blockbuster movie, is simply the number of people who pay to see it.
Originally posted by Ebony Allen:
We need more black couples in movies. And I mean epic blockbuster movies on the lines of Titanic, Harry Potter, and Lord of the Rings.
quote:Because regional 'phenotypic complexes' (as craniometric means) in Africa had not then appeared.
>>> what is being identified, both broad and narrow features?
Then the comparsion might as well include anybody
quote:Nea Nikomedea nasal index are incredibly high.
^The Macedonian (Nea Nikomedea[?]) and Anatolian
(Catal Hoyuk[?]) first farmers can be said to
look morphometrically broadly similar to Cushitic
speaking Horner populations, while the segment
of the Natufians populations Angel was talking
about (i.e. the segment that had noticeably
more African attributes than preceding Levantines),
also have relationships to Cushitic speakers,
albeit more distant.
quote:Thanks for filling in the blanks, Dead. So, possibly,
Originally posted by Dead:
quote:Nea Nikomedea nasal index are incredibly high.
^The Macedonian (Nea Nikomedea[?]) and Anatolian
(Catal Hoyuk[?]) first farmers can be said to
look morphometrically broadly similar to Cushitic
speaking Horner populations, while the segment
of the Natufians populations Angel was talking
about (i.e. the segment that had noticeably
more African attributes than preceding Levantines),
also have relationships to Cushitic speakers,
albeit more distant.
Based on 4 skulls, they were on 59.4, matching Nubian (hyper-platyrrhine).
"The Neo Nikomedeia from Greece and Nubia 117 from southern Egypt manifest very similar nasal [index] dimensions (59. 4 and 59.7, respectively)." (Arensburg & Hershkovitz, 1989)
However since the 1990s 7 more skulls were found from the same site. Their average nasal index is somewhat lower: 53.2 (n = 11). However this is still high for a Neolithic European sample, and platyrrhine. To contrast: Neolithic British are 45.4; Neolithic French: 45.7; Neolithic Spain: 47.0; Neolithic Denmark: 49.2).
quote:Yes, of course. I know. I think blacks are into those type of movies. We need to start making them.
Originally posted by Mike111:
quote:You do understand that what makes a blockbuster movie, is simply the number of people who pay to see it.
Originally posted by Ebony Allen:
We need more black couples in movies. And I mean epic blockbuster movies on the lines of Titanic, Harry Potter, and Lord of the Rings.
Do you think that the Civil Rights struggle was about forcing Hollywood to make blockbuster, or any other kind of movies for Blacks?
It was not: it was about Blacks having the right to make whatever kind of movie that pleased them.
quote:Not likely, the Negro of today makes Music and Movies for a White audience, because that is where the most money is. Thus today's Black art is actually groveling Negro Art, begging for acceptance from White audience.
Originally posted by Ebony Allen:
Yes, of course. I know. I think blacks are into those type of movies. We need to start making them.
quote:
Originally posted by xyyman:
May be I am still not asking it the right way.
Natufians(`8000BC) cluster with MODERN Niger-Congo. That is a given.
I am asking West African skull from about >4000BC cluster with which modern population WITHIN Africa? San, Pygmies or other?
I am trying to determine when the modern Niger Congo skull appeared IN West Africa. We know they inhabited Eastern Africa and even maybe the Sahara region.
quote:
Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:
quote:"West African" crania clusters with ancient Natufians.
Originally posted by xyyman:
I am asking who the ancient West African(Not the Sahara region) skulls cluster with? I am NOT disputing “Africans being indigenous to Africa” in Eastern Africa.
But there is likely not just one particular type of crania.
In Hot Pursuit of Language in Prehistory: Essays in the Four Fields of Anthropology : in Honor of Harold Crane Fleming
--John Benjamins Publishing, 2008
quote:--Noreen von Cramon-Taubadel1 andStephen J. Lycett2,*
Recent studies comparing craniometric and neutral genetic affinity matrices have concluded that, on average, human cranial variation fits a model of neutral expectation. While human craniometric and genetic data fit a model of isolation by geographic distance, it is not yet clear whether this is due to geographically mediated gene flow or human dispersal events. Recently, human genetic data have been shown to fit an iterative founder effect model of dispersal with an African origin, in line with the out-of-Africa replacement model for modern human origins, and Manica et al. (Nature 448 (2007) 346–349) have demonstrated that human craniometric data also fit this model. However, in contrast with the neutral model of cranial evolution suggested by previous studies, Manica et al. (2007) made the a priori assumption that cranial form has been subject to climatically driven natural selection and therefore correct for climate prior to conducting their analyses. Here we employ a modified theoretical and methodological approach to test whether human cranial variability fits the iterative founder effect model. In contrast with Manica et al. (2007) we employ size-adjusted craniometric variables, since climatic factors such as temperature have been shown to correlate with aspects of cranial size. Despite these differences, we obtain similar results to those of Manica et al. (2007), with up to 26% of global within-population craniometric variation being explained by geographic distance from sub-Saharan Africa. Comparative analyses using non-African origins do not yield significant results. The implications of these results are discussed in the light of the modern human origins debate. Am J Phys Anthropol, 2008. © 2007 Wiley-Liss, Inc.
quote:Consigned, it simply shows a nature course of the majority. Instead of the overexagerated "mix-race" couples, who are in the vast minority, yet being pushed by the media.
Originally posted by Ebony Allen:
We need more black couples in movies. And I mean epic blockbuster movies on the lines of Titanic, Harry Potter, and Lord of the Rings.
quote:Lol. Did you just say "pragmatism"?
Originally posted by xyyman:
Great Reading….pragmatism is found throughout Europe in the Mesolithic period.
quote:------
Originally posted by xyyman:
This is a great collection and physical description with location of skeletons found throughout Europe.
---THE PROBLEM OF RACE IN THE MESOLITHIC OF EUROPE1
Robert J. Squier
quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:
quote:Lol. Did you just say "pragmatism"?
Originally posted by xyyman:
Great Reading….pragmatism is found throughout Europe in the Mesolithic period.
quote:Alveolar prognathism, caused by thumb sucking and tongue thrusting in a 7-year-old girl.
Originally posted by Dead:
Hardly any of the African samples are prognathic (103 >). Yet the majority have alveolar prognathism if separately analysed. So Gnathic Index doesn't seem to be very useful at all.
Forensic anthropologists only look for absence/presence of anterior projection in the alveolar region, when making ancestry assessment of a skull.
quote:For Coon (1962, 1965) North Africa was within the "Caucasoid" geographical zone, so too was the Horn of Africa. That was basically its southern periphery. It extended east as far as India and also covered central Asia:
So Coon also agrees that Europeans are a sub-set of Africans.
quote:UP and Mesolithic European skulls don't closely resemble modern European means in multivariate studies because of the profound changes in cranial morphology, especially in the masticatory region e.g. during the mid-Holocene when dietary changes were intense, but there were other earlier shifts and factors (such as environment and plasticity) involved.
Originally posted by Swenet:
[QB] @Dead. The dilemma with dolichocephaly in Mesolithic
Europeans has been the same as with tropical
limb proportions and platyrrhiny some of them
may have. It's hard to decide whether dolichocrania
or relatively longer lower limbs in Mesolithic
Europe, the Epipalaeolithic Maghreb, the Levant,
etc. signify recent African ancestry or retentions
from UP West Eurasians.
quote:^Right. Accounting for his age, Kostenki-14 is
Originally posted by Dead:
So when van Vark found that the majority of
30+ UP European skulls are closer to Australians,
Polynesians, Zulu etc., than modern Europeans, and
a sizable proportion of the crania distant to all
populations - this does not mean genetic
discontinuity (the same for some Mesolithic crania
in Howells, 1995). I'm sure you already know this.
These changes though were basically contemporaneous
across the world.
quote:K-14 is Makranis/Sindhi. Are these people West Eurasian. WTF
Originally posted by Swenet:
[Q]quote:^Right. Accounting for his age, Kostenki-14 is
.
essentially West Eurasian????? per his recently sequenced
genome, despite having many facial traits frequently
used to assign recent African ancestry. http://www.eva.mpg.de/evolution/pdf/Bailey_2000_DA.pdf [/Q]
quote:Now he's insinuating that ANI ancestry (the genetic
Originally posted by Xyyman:
You are stealing Indigenous Indian history.
quote:More verbal diarrhoea.
Originally posted by Xyyman:
You do know these people cluster with Africans in
Phenotype [...] That is why K-14 looks "Negroid"
quote:I don't really have a clue was this stuff is. However I noticed with all these genome papers, you get a big caution about DNA contamination. With fossils you don't get that issue. I consider the fossil data more reliable.
Originally posted by xyyman:
[QB] WTF!!! Come on Swenet....are you the lunatic Dienekes? You are stealing Indigenous Indian history. WTF. K-14 cluster with Sindhi amd Makrani. You do know these people cluster with Africans in Phenotype although they are Asians. That is why K-14 looks "Negroid"
quote:
Originally posted by xyyman:
Any one knows WHY the blue/mesoamerica is highest in the Khoisan...and it has nothing to do with the epicantic fold?
Tic! Toc!
quote:
Originally posted by xyyman:
I know you don't know much about genetics but no one is 100% anything. Someone can explain this to you. Not saying some Aframs ain't admixed but even continentals carry "Eurasian" genes. See the brownn slice of the pie chart? Basque. See it increases in frequency towards North Africa. That is NOT admixture that is purification ie "selective sweep".
ALL the colors of the pie chart increases away from Africa. ALL IS AFRiCAN!!! ALL genes.
quote:The red represents indigenous Africa
Originally posted by xyyman:
.
ALL the colors of the pie chart increases away from Africa. ALL IS AFRiCAN!!! ALL genes.[/b]
quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:
Can someone inform Xyyman of the fact that the PCI,
PCII corner in which Kostenki is positioned in his
own image is the "West Eurasian" corner? Anyone?
But if you do, be gentle with him. He's taken enough
Ls as it is, lately.
quote:
Originally posted by Tukuler:
One thing I'd like to see is
full (including caption and
citation) and unedited posting
of original report graphs.
quote:@Cass- aDNA contamination was an issue early on. The technology has improved tremendously. They can estimate the amount of contamination, if any. They can also authenicate whether it is true aDNA while testing. So give up on the contamination line. Early on, yes, now, very unlikely.
Originally posted by Dead:
Can you comment on this? The 'admixture' in the Horn is like 50% Eurasian.
People on sites like Anthroscape use these studies to support Coon.
quote:Besides the fact that you can't read to save
Originally posted by xyyman:
Yeah. Makrani and Sindhi are West Eurasians. Even with weed I know the difference.
quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:
Can someone inform Xyyman of the fact that the PCI,
PCII corner in which Kostenki is positioned in his
own image is the "West Eurasian" corner? Anyone?
But if you do, be gentle with him. He's taken enough
Ls as it is, lately.
quote:--Seguin-Orlando et al 2014
Using Mbuti Pygmy as an outgroup, we
find that among a panel of 167 contemporary
populations, Europeans have the greatest affinity
(i.e., the largest f3) to K14 (Fig. 1C). This
conclusion is also formally supported by comparing
pairs of populations to K14 using the D statistics
of the form D(Mbuti Pygmy, K14; Population 1,
Population 2).
quote:--Seguin-Orlando et al 2014
The K14 genome shows that this early UP
individual was clearly part of a western Eurasian
lineage that had already diverged from eastern
Asians, thus establishing a minimum date for
that separation at least 36.2 ka.
quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:
quote:Besides the fact that you can't read to save
Originally posted by xyyman:
Yeah. Makrani and Sindhi are West Eurasians. Even with weed I know the difference.
quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:
Can someone inform Xyyman of the fact that the PCI,
PCII corner in which Kostenki is positioned in his
own image is the "West Eurasian" corner? Anyone?
But if you do, be gentle with him. He's taken enough
Ls as it is, lately.
your life (I never said India was geographically
situated in West Eurasia), you have an incredibly
crude understanding of multivariate statistics,
Just like your boy Amun-Ra, you take a random
PC plot with just two PCs and make up fictitious
narratives about genetic affinity, even when
the full text of the same paper says something
else entirely. Only on ES.
What the actual paper says:
quote:--Seguin-Orlando et al 2014
Using Mbuti Pygmy as an outgroup, we
find that among a panel of 167 contemporary
populations, Europeans have the greatest affinity
(i.e., the largest f3) to K14 (Fig. 1C). This
conclusion is also formally supported by comparing
pairs of populations to K14 using the D statistics
of the form D(Mbuti Pygmy, K14; Population 1,
Population 2).
quote:--Seguin-Orlando et al 2014
The K14 genome shows that this early UP
individual was clearly part of a western Eurasian
lineage that had already diverged from eastern
Asians, thus establishing a minimum date for
that separation at least 36.2 ka.
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:The red represents indigenous Africa
Originally posted by xyyman:
.
ALL the colors of the pie chart increases away from Africa. ALL IS AFRiCAN!!! ALL genes.[/b]
The other colors in Africa increase closer to Eurasia because according to his chart outsiders came into Africa from Eurasia and their migratiosn thinned as they got deeper into Africa, further and further South
hense all the colors that are not red are labeled names of popualtions from outside of Africa
The key to this is that this map represents modern Africa
If you went back 10,000 years ago the pie charts all over Africa would be much more red
quote:Lol. "Raw data". Then why don't you post the "raw
Originally posted by xyyman:
But when you look at the raw data, KOS/K-14
was closest to the indigenous older Indian sub-
continent population.
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
quote:What I said is that ANI has affinity with West
Yeah the author is absolutely correct when he says Makrani/Sindhi are West EurAsian and I Swenet believe him."
quote:In s25 the Indian sample doesn't branch off of
You answer lies in Fig S25. So, why don’t you explain F S25 to me?"
quote:[/QB][/QUOTE]
Originally posted by xyyman:
LOL! Lioness, Agent Provocateur . Think back 10,000ya? Yeah right. ALL colors increase in frequency with increase in distance FROM SSA. ALL!!! Including Native American. Isolation by distance ie an African origin for ALL colors. Try again. He! He! He!
No! No! I get it. Native Americans, Basque, Dravidians etc. ALL of these populations “back-migrated” TO Sub-Saharan Africa. GTFOH with that BS!
quote:The red represents indigenous Africa
Originally posted by xyyman:
.
ALL the colors of the pie chart increases away from Africa. ALL IS AFRiCAN!!! ALL genes.[/b]
The other colors in Africa increase closer to Eurasia because according to his chart outsiders came into Africa from Eurasia and their migratiosn thinned as they got deeper into Africa, further and further South
hense all the colors that are not red are labeled names of popualtions from outside of Africa
The key to this is that this map represents modern Africa
If you went back 10,000 years ago the pie charts all over Africa would be much more red
quote:a continental component is by definition a component that originates in the given continent
Originally posted by xyyman:
AFRICANS carry ALL continental components.
quote:Xyyman, there was a convention back then, they all used drums and horns, to give each other notice to go "back into Africa . It surprises me you didn't know.
Originally posted by xyyman:
Did you read the Tribes digest? It is filled with "possibly", "could be explained", "most likely".
Those words are speculative. The author is trying to explain away EVERY continental componenet found IN Africa through...back-migration.
Really? Even Native Americans "back-migrated". The only one thing that is factual. AFRICANS carry ALL continental components.
So go ahead...run with it
quote:My guess is straight or curly hair IS the original hair type of humans. After all, most animals including other primates have straight hair. Almost all peoples outside of Africa have straight hair.
Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:
quote:Xyyman, there was a convention back then, they all used drums and horns, to give each other notice to go "back into Africa . It surprises me you didn't know.
Originally posted by xyyman:
Did you read the Tribes digest? It is filled with "possibly", "could be explained", "most likely".
Those words are speculative. The author is trying to explain away EVERY continental componenet found IN Africa through...back-migration.
Really? Even Native Americans "back-migrated". The only one thing that is factual. AFRICANS carry ALL continental components.
So go ahead...run with it
There is a study out-there wich claims that "kinky hair" in Africa is due to admixture of Eurasians as well.
quote:I am not interested in what you guess, I am interested in exposing obfuscating BS. A particular charactaristic Africans have is, less to almost NO body hair. And those with the "thightess" kinky hair are from the Steppe region. So, there goes your "guess".
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:My guess is straight or curly hair IS the original hair type of humans. After all, most animals including other primates have straight hair. Almost all peoples outside of Africa have straight hair.
Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:
quote:Xyyman, there was a convention back then, they all used drums and horns, to give each other notice to go "back into Africa . It surprises me you didn't know.
Originally posted by xyyman:
Did you read the Tribes digest? It is filled with "possibly", "could be explained", "most likely".
Those words are speculative. The author is trying to explain away EVERY continental componenet found IN Africa through...back-migration.
Really? Even Native Americans "back-migrated". The only one thing that is factual. AFRICANS carry ALL continental components.
So go ahead...run with it
There is a study out-there wich claims that "kinky hair" in Africa is due to admixture of Eurasians as well.
My second premise is that kinky or tightly curled hair is a recent adaption to the new environment ie jungles and forest dwellers. As the older groups moved into these new environments, from the plains, they developed these features.
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by xyyman:
LOL! Lioness, Agent Provocateur . Think back 10,000ya? Yeah right. ALL colors increase in frequency with increase in distance FROM SSA. ALL!!! Including Native American. Isolation by distance ie an African origin for ALL colors. Try again. He! He! He!
No! No! I get it. Native Americans, Basque, Dravidians etc. ALL of these populations “back-migrated” TO Sub-Saharan Africa. GTFOH with that BS!
quote:The red represents indigenous Africa
Originally posted by xyyman:
.
ALL the colors of the pie chart increases away from Africa. ALL IS AFRiCAN!!! ALL genes.[/b]
The other colors in Africa increase closer to Eurasia because according to his chart outsiders came into Africa from Eurasia and their migratiosn thinned as they got deeper into Africa, further and further South
hense all the colors that are not red are labeled names of popualtions from outside of Africa
The key to this is that this map represents modern Africa
If you went back 10,000 years ago the pie charts all over Africa would be much more red
quote:When are you going to provide evidence for these backmigration claims?
Originaly posted by The Lioness:
xyyman you might think Basques, Dravidians etc. are not components back-migratig populations to Sub-Saharan Africa.
However to use the above chart to try to argue that is insane.
The intent of the people who made that chart is to show foreign migration into Africa.
The intent is clear looking at the key of the map, what each color is labeled, except for red, words that are associated with places outside of Africa
Accordingly the non-red colors increase the closer they are to other continents because the migrations thin out the further they get from their points of origin in Eurasia
Now listen up
If you disagree with the above map in order to make sense you should be saying all of the colors in the key other than red are mislabeled and every color showed be some type of African
quote:Do you think most modern Egyptians and Libyans are largely indigenous Africans? Say, 80% African?
Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:
[When are you going to provide evidence for these backmigration claims?
Where is all the evidence for these population(s) movements from Eurasia into Africa? All over Africa now.
quote:No they are not, as I have proven to you, by recent migrations and invasions along the coast. In for example Son Of Ra's thread and your very own threads.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Do you think most modern Egyptians and Libyans are largely indigenous Africans? Say, 80% African?
Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:
[When are you going to provide evidence for these backmigration claims?
Where is all the evidence for these population(s) movements from Eurasia into Africa? All over Africa now.
quote:The Iberomaurusian assmbleges
Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:
quote:No they are not, as I have proven to you, by recent migrations and invasions along the coast. In for example Son Of Ra's thread and your very own threads.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Do you think most modern Egyptians and Libyans are largely indigenous Africans? Say, 80% African?
Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:
[When are you going to provide evidence for these backmigration claims?
Where is all the evidence for these population(s) movements from Eurasia into Africa? All over Africa now.
But I'm asking for YOU, to show me Eurasian assemblages into Africa prior to these invasions and recent migrations. Which is now claimed to have taken place all over Africa. For tens-of-thousands of years.
quote:You are a fool and a clown, the Iberomaurusian assamblage arose in Africa. And stems from older asablages, more to the South. Yup, deeper in Africa. And Taforalt cluster with older remains for the region. Proposed for the cold adapted body positions is the climatic condition.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:The Iberomaurusian assmbleges
Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:
quote:No they are not, as I have proven to you, by recent migrations and invasions along the coast. In for example Son Of Ra's thread and your very own threads.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Do you think most modern Egyptians and Libyans are largely indigenous Africans? Say, 80% African?
Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:
[When are you going to provide evidence for these backmigration claims?
Where is all the evidence for these population(s) movements from Eurasia into Africa? All over Africa now.
But I'm asking for YOU, to show me Eurasian assemblages into Africa prior to these invasions and recent migrations. Which is now claimed to have taken place all over Africa. For tens-of-thousands of years.
They had cold adapted limb ratios that cluster with Artic people along with MTDNA haplogroup H and different in morphology form other prehistoric North Africans
It is unlkely that the Iberomaurusian is older than 18,000 BP in the Maghreb (duration of the culture about 10.5 K years)
Tamar Hat is one of the assmbleges, also La Mouillah bladelets, Taforalt, Grotte Rassel
quote:^^^ LIE
Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:
the Iberomaurusian assamblage arose in Africa. And stems from older asablages, more to the South. Yup, deeper in Africa.
quote:^^^ LIE, they don't cluster with the the Capasians
Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:
And Taforalt cluster with older remains for the region.
quote:Afalou = Iberomaurusian
Originally posted by Truthcentric:
I have just downloaded this new limb proportion study onto my laptop at UCSD. If anyone's interested in taking a look, PM me your e-mail so I can send it to you.
To give you a preview of the findings, here's a dendrogram showing similarities in limb proportions between the populations measured:
Population Affinities of the Jebel Sahaba Skeletal Sample (Trenton Holliday 2013)
quote:Euronut see, and read!
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:^^^ LIE
Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:
the Iberomaurusian assamblage arose in Africa. And stems from older asablages, more to the South. Yup, deeper in Africa.
quote:^^^ LIE, they don't cluster with the the Capasians
Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:
And Taforalt cluster with older remains for the region.
and their mtDNA is hap H
^^^
Green= Iberomaurusian
Blue = Capsian
quote:Afalou = Iberomaurusian
Originally posted by Truthcentric:
I have just downloaded this new limb proportion study onto my laptop at UCSD. If anyone's interested in taking a look, PM me your e-mail so I can send it to you.
To give you a preview of the findings, here's a dendrogram showing similarities in limb proportions between the populations measured:
Population Affinities of the Jebel Sahaba Skeletal Sample (Trenton Holliday 2013)
El Wad = Natufian
/close thread
quote:--A. Bouzouggar, et al.
we suggest that there may have been a relationship, albeit a complex one, between climatic events and cave activity on the part of Iberomaurusian populations.
quote:--Kyle S. Brown1,2 et al.
We conducted a comparative analysis of segments between the PP5–6 samples, HP assemblages and more recent archaeological sites through- out Africa. SADBS segment dimensions (Supplementary Table 4) are within the 95% confidence intervals for segments at the MSA and LSA boundary in East Africa, the Tamar Hat Iberomaurusian in North Africa (,20–10kyr), and Holocene assemblages in South and East Africa (Fig. 1). More easily flaked obsidian (owing to its lack of crystalline structure) dominates the East African assemblages, so despite a tougher raw material (silcrete) the SADBS knappers produced comparable microliths. SADBS segments are shorter and thinner than HP segments with no overlap in confidence intervals for width; they are more similar to East African LSA assemblages than the HP (Fig. 1).
quote:--Frigi et al.
Our results also point to a less ancient western sub-Saharan gene flow to Tunisia, including haplogroups L2a and L3b. This conclusion points to an ancient African gene flow to Tunisia before 20,000 BP. These findings parallel the more recent findings of both archaeology and linguistics on the prehistory of Africa.
[...]
However, considering the general understanding nowadays that human settlement of the rest of the world emerged from eastern northern Africa less than 50,000 years ago, a better explanation of these haplogroups might be that their frequencies reflect the original modern human population of these parts of Africa as much as or more than intrusions from outside the continent. The ways that gene frequencies may increase or decrease based on adaptive selection, gene flow, and/or social processes is under study and would benefit from the results of studies on autosomal and Y-chromosome markers.
Since the end of the extreme Saharan desiccation, lasting from before 25,000 years ago up to about 15,000 years ago, the Sahara has had post- and pre-Holocene cyclical climatic changes (Street and Grove 1976), and corresponding increases and decreases in population are probable. Wetter phases with better habitats perhaps allowed for increased colonization and gene and cultural exchange. Desiccation would have encouraged the emigration and segmentation of popuations, with resultant genetic consequences secondary to drift producing more variation. During the last glacial period, the Sahara was even bigger than it is today, extending south beyond its current boundaries (Ehret 2002). About 13,000 years ago, large parts of the Sahara were as dry as the desert is now (White and Mattingly 2006). The end of the glacial period brought more rain to the Sahara, especially from about 8500 to 6000 BC (Fezzan Project 2006). By around 3400 BC, the monsoon retreated south to approximately where it is today, leading to the gradual desertification of the region (Kröpelin 2008). Thus the Sahara, through its cyclical environmental changes, might be seen as a microevolutionary “processor” and/or “pump” of African people that “ejected” groups to the circum-Saharan regions in times of increasing aridity.
quote:--Bar-Yosef O., Pleistocene connections between Africa and South West Asia: an archaeological perspective. The African Archaeological Review; Chapter 5, pg 29-38; Kislev ME, Hartmann A, Bar-Yosef O, Early domesticated fig in the Jordan Valley. Nature 312:1372–1374.
Ofer Bar-Yosef cites the microburin technique and “microlithic forms such as arched backed bladelets and La Mouillah points" as well as the parthenocarpic figs found in Natufian territory originated in the Sudan.
quote:--Ehret (2002) The Civilizations of Africa: A History to 1800. Charlottesville: University Press of Virginia
Christopher Ehret noted that the intensive use of plants among the Natufians was first found in Africa, as a precursor to the development of farming in the Fertile Crescent.
quote:--Late Pleistocene Human Occupation of Northwest Africa: A Crosscheck of Chronology and Climate Change in Morocco
Regular Middle Paleolithic inventories as well as Middle Paleolithic inventories of Aterian type have a long chronology in Morocco going back to MIS 6 and are interstratified in some sites. Their potential for detecting chrono-cultural patterns is low. The transition from the Middle to Upper Paleolithic, here termed Early Upper Paleolithic—at between 30 to 20 ka—remains a most enigmatic era. Scarce data from this period requires careful and fundamental reconsidering of human presence. By integrating environmental data in the reconstruction of population dynamics, clear correlations become obvious. High resolution data are lacking before 20 ka, and at some sites this period is characterized by the occurrence of sterile layers between Middle Paleolithic deposits, possibly indicative of a very low presence of humans in Morocco. After Heinrich Event 1, there is an enormous increase of data due to the prominent Late Iberomaurusian deposits that contrast strongly with the foregoing accumulations in terms of sedimentological features, fauna, and artifact composition. The Younger Dryas again shows a remarkable decline of data marking the end of the Paleolithic. Environmental improvements in the Holocene are associated with an extensive Epipaleolithic occupation. Therefore, the late glacial cultural sequence of Morocco is a good test case for analyzing the interrelationship of culture and climate change.
[...]
The inventories of this late Upper Palaeolithic are rich in microlithic tools, primarily backed bladelets. The same is true for late Pleistocene techno-complexes in the Near East, such as the Kebarian and the Natufian. Therefore, the Iberomaurusian has often been referred to as Epipalaeolithic (Aouraghe, 2006, p. 241; Olszewski et al., 2011). This period is followed by the Neolithic from the middle of the 8th millennium calBP. Until relatively recently, little was known about the EpipalaeolithiceNeolithic transition process, even an occupation gap was assumed (Nehren, 1992).
In the meantime the hunter-gatherer societies of the Early Holocene are much better known. The term “Epipalaeolithic” is
restricted now to assemblages from the Early Holocene period as it is common for the whole western Mediterranean (Linstädter, 2008). In this terminology the Epipalaeolithic follows the Iberomaurusian and commences around the PleistoceneeHolocene boundary. During the 8th millennium calBP pottery adopted from Neolithic neighbors appears in hunter-gatherer contexts. The local hunter-gatherers integrated pottery into their material repertoire without changing their lifestyle. For this final stage the term “Epipalaeolithic with pottery” has been introduced (Linstädter et al., in this issue).
quote:--On the industrial attributions of the Aterian and Mousterian of the Maghreb, Harold L. Dibble et al.
North Africa is quickly emerging as one of the more important regions yielding information on the origins of modern Homo sapiens. Associated with significant fossil hominin remains are two stone tool industries, the Aterian and Mousterian, which have been differentiated, respectively, primarily on the basis of the presence and absence of tanged, or stemmed, stone tools. Largely because of historical reasons, these two industries have been attributed to the western Eurasian Middle Paleolithic rather than the African Middle Stone Age. In this paper, drawing on our recent excavation of Contrebandiers Cave and other published data, we show that, aside from the presence or absence of tanged pieces, there are no other distinctions between these two industries in terms of either lithic attributes or chronology. Together, these results demonstrate that these two ‘industries’ are instead variants of the same entity. Moreover, several additional characteristics of these assemblages, such as distinctive stone implements and the manufacture and use of bone tools and possible shell ornaments, suggest a closer affinity to other Late Pleistocene African Middle Stone Age industries rather than to the Middle Paleolithic of western Eurasia.
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:a continental component is by definition a component that originates in the given continent
Originally posted by xyyman:
AFRICANS carry ALL continental components.
quote:highest frequnecy + highest diversity = probable place of origin
Originally posted by xyyman:
[QB] No azz. A continental component is a component found at highest frequency IN that continent...not necessarily originating there.
quote:why are you calling someone degenerated ?
Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:
At first I had doubts, but now I am sure that you are a ignorant desperate degenerated racist twit.
Here, again on the industries!
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:highest frequnecy + highest diversity = probable place of origin
Originally posted by xyyman:
[QB] No azz. A continental component is a component found at highest frequency IN that continent...not necessarily originating there.
quote:This is a false statement and the details on it have been pointed out to you several times. You never learn
Originally posted by xyyman:
mtDNA Hg-H has highest diversity in Africa.
quote:Cranial length & breadth heritability is 0.36. So the cephalic index is more useful in ancestry assessment than orbital index (0.25) and other cranial dimensions/indices that are as low as 0.01. However you miss the point that forensic scientists work with a combination of features, not single variables.
Originally posted by Tukuler:
Cephalic index is outdated.
It cannot show related descent
the way non-metric cranial traits
are purported to do (in a way that
closely accords with genetic results)
quote:A large portion, or even most, Mesolithic and Early Neolithic crania in Europe are dolichocephalic (under 74.9). It changes during or by the late Neolithic/Copper and Bronze Age.
Originally posted by xyyman:
Maybe Cass can help me out here. Now since Loschbour is "European" Hunter Gather. You would think his CI would be in the 80's but it is alarmingly in the 60's. What;s up with that? Is he a new migrant or plasticity is BS or Allen-Bergeman rule takes 10K years!!! Which?
quote:name one that is valid but not based on the skull
Originally posted by Dead:. However you miss the point that forensic scientists work with a combination of features, not single variables
quote:
Originally posted by Tukuler:
Cephalic index is outdated.
It cannot show related descent
the way non-metric cranial traits
are purported to do (in a way that
closely accords with genetic results)
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
But back to the skull
The Lochsbour skull.The prominent browridge is very unusual for
Paleolithic Europeans.
quote:
Originally posted by Dead:
quote:A large portion, or even most, Mesolithic and Early Neolithic crania in Europe are dolichocephalic (under 74.9). It changes during or by the late Neolithic/Copper and Bronze Age.
Originally posted by xyyman:
Maybe Cass can help me out here. Now since Loschbour is "European" Hunter Gather. You would think his CI would be in the 80's but it is alarmingly in the 60's. What;s up with that? Is he a new migrant or plasticity is BS or Allen-Bergeman rule takes 10K years!!! Which?
Mean Cephalic Index:
Copper Age Germany: 81.6
Bronze Age Cyprus: 81.7
Bronze Age Ireland: 79.8
Bronze Age Scotland: 83.1
Bronze Age England : 81.3
- Coon, 1939
quote:show the quote where someone said the La Brana is “warm weathered”
Originally posted by xyyman:
La Brana....
I know now through Cass(wink) his facial form and head was “warm weathered”
quote:No chart you put up shows hg-H has highest diversity IN Africa
Originally posted by xyyman:
And the other chart shows hg-H has highest diversity IN Africa.
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:No chart you put up shows hg-H has highest diversity IN Africa
Originally posted by xyyman:
And the other chart shows hg-H has highest diversity IN Africa.
quote:Clearly you don't undertstand it
Originally posted by xyyman:
And the other chart shows hg-H has highest diversity IN Africa
I guess you cannot understand the chart above published
By Kefi et al 2014?
quote:plainly stated the Tunisians are 43% Eurasian,
The mtDNA genetic pool of Tunisian populations contains three components:
Eurasian lineages (H, HV, U (excepted U6), T, J, V, K, N, R, U5, I, W, X),
Sub-Saharan lineages (L0, L1, L2, L3) and North African lineages (U6 and M1).
The exception was observed in two Southern Berber populations from Jerba and Chenini-Douiret where the North African component was absent. The Eurasian lineages are predominant in all Tunisian populations, with the exception of the Southern Berbers from Bou Saaˆd where the percentage of the Eurasian lineages was equivalent to the percentage of the Sub-Saharan lineages (43% and 44% respectively). The Eurasian lineages range from 43% in the population of Bou Saaˆd to 87% IN BERBERS FROM JERBA.
Read more: http://egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/thread/1757/finally-kefi-2014-origin-mtdna#ixzz3Ua0Br3iA
--Kefi et al 2014
quote:
Originally posted by CelticWarrioress:
XyYThater, yeah this from some one who considers White people to be diseased, inferior non-humans with no history, no heritage, no identity, no place on earth we belong.
quote:why are you saying Kefi says says H is African
Originally posted by xyyman:
Come on Lioness, are you on games or are you dumber than I give you credit for? You are arguing PERCENTAGE/frequency. Tunisians are Africans they would carry a high percentage of hgL and lower percentage of hgH than Europeans.
See the black lines in the chart? Tic Toc.
quote:If Haplogroup H has it's highest diversity in the Near East why are you only mentioning Europe and Africa?
Originally posted by xyyman:
"Woman" ......it doesn't matter what label is used. The fact is ALL haplotypes of hgH found in Europe is found in Africa. But some haplotypes of hgH is ONLY found IN Africa. Meaning Europeans are a subset of Africans. This is not Nuclear Physics.
quote:Their diversity is irrelevant to the origin of Haplogroup H
Originally posted by xyyman:
Near East? SMH. Agent provocateur
Oh! You do know why Turkey/ Armenians have the highest diversity IN Europe ? Tic Toc
quote:.
Originally posted by Dead:
quote:Cranial length & breadth heritability is 0.36. So the cephalic index is more useful in ancestry assessment than orbital index (0.25) and other cranial dimensions/indices that are as low as 0.01. However you miss the point that forensic scientists work with a combination of features, not single variables.
Originally posted by Tukuler:
Cephalic index is outdated.
It cannot show related descent
the way non-metric cranial traits
are purported to do (in a way that
closely accords with genetic results)
quote:.
Originally posted by xyyman:
We know CI is outdated but I am making a point to those who are in the skull thing.
The chart clearly shows the Neolithic skulls are long-headed. And Cass, the skull guy, is the one who posted the study with the chart. So the question is - what brought about the change?
And the other chart shows hg-H has highest diversity IN Africa.
Check mate.
quote:"Long-barrow, long skull; round-barrow, round head," is a saying that goes back to the 19th century in Britain. It refers to the fact, most Neolithic crania are long, while Bronze age, round.
Originally posted by xyyman:
"It chnages during the bronze age" Why? How? Sources?
quote:
Originally posted by Dead:
quote:A large portion, or even most, Mesolithic and Early Neolithic crania in Europe are dolichocephalic (under 74.9). It changes during or by the late Neolithic/Copper and Bronze Age.
Originally posted by xyyman:
Maybe Cass can help me out here. Now since Loschbour is "European" Hunter Gather. You would think his CI would be in the 80's but it is alarmingly in the 60's. What;s up with that? Is he a new migrant or plasticity is BS or Allen-Bergeman rule takes 10K years!!! Which?
Mean Cephalic Index:
Copper Age Germany: 81.6
Bronze Age Cyprus: 81.7
Bronze Age Ireland: 79.8
Bronze Age Scotland: 83.1
Bronze Age England : 81.3
- Coon, 1939
quote:.
Originally posted by Dead:
It doesn't matter if they are non-metric, metric or quasi-continuous. What matters is their (a) underlying heritability and whether they show (b) high enough inter-population variation to be considered useful in determining ancestry.
Cranial breadth and cranial length qualify (a) and (b) which is why forensic scientists still use the cephalic/cranial index. But of course they combine it with a few other indices/measurements and scored/graded cranial traits.
quote:.
Originally posted by Tukuler:
Cranial indices??? Please!Please, no ratios, indexes, or
- Craniometric variables.
- Cranial non-metric traits.
other combining of variables.
Indices are just not racially applicable.
Why? There's too much intra-racial variety.
quote:.
Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:
The paper by Bulbeck:
Principles Underlying
the Determination of Population Affinity
with Craniometric Data
Page 36
http://www.mankindquarterly.org/samples/Bulbeck.pdf
[...]
quote:--K. Goddea, et al.
Many authors have speculated on Nubian biological evolution. Because of the contact Nubians had with other peoples, migration and/or invasion (biological diffusion) were originally thought to be the biological mechanism for skeletal changes in Nubians. Later, a new hypothesis was put forth, the in situ hypothesis. The new hypothesis postulated that Nubians evolved in situ, without much genetic influence from foreign populations. This study examined 12 Egyptian and Nubian groups in an effort to explore the relationship between the two populations and to test the in situ hypothesis. Data from nine cranial nonmetric traits were assessed for an estimate of biological distance, using Mahalanobis D2 with a tetrachoric matrix. The distance scores were then input into principal coordinates analysis (PCO) to depict the relationships between the two populations. PCO detected 60% of the variation in the first two principal coordinates. A plot of the distance scores revealed only one cluster; the Nubian and Egyptian groups clustered together. The grouping of the Nubians and Egyptians indicates there may have been some sort of gene flow between these groups of Nubians and Egyptians. However, common adaptation to similar environments may also be responsible for this pattern. Although the predominant results in this study appear to support the biological diffusion hypothesis, the in situ hypothesis was not completely negated.
An examination of Nubian and Egyptian biological distances: Support for biological diffusion or in situ development?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19766993
[...]
quote:--Sonia R. Zakrzewski. (2007). Population Continuity
"As a result of their facial prognathism, the Badarian
sample has been described as forming a
morphological cluster with Nubian, Tigrean, and
other southern (or \Negroid") groups (Morant, 1935,
1937; Mukherjee et al., 1955; Nutter, 1958, Strouhal,
1971; Angel, 1972; Keita, 1990). Cranial nonmetric
trait studies have found this group to be similar to
other Egyptians, including much later material (Berry
and Berry, 1967, 1972), but also to be significantly
different from LPD material (Berry et al., 1967).
Similarly, the study of dental nonmetric traits has
suggested that the Badarian population is at the
centroid of Egyptian dental samples (Irish, 2006),
thereby suggesting similarity and hence continuity
across Egyptian time periods. From the central
location of the Badarian samples in Figure 2, the
current study finds the Badarian to be relatively
morphologically close to the centroid of all the
Egyptian samples. The Badarian have been shown to
exhibit
greatest morphological similarity with the temporally
successive EPD (Table 5). Finally, the biological
distinctiveness
of the Badarian from other Egyptian samples has also
been demonstrated (Tables 6 and 7).
These results suggest that the EDyn do form a
distinct morphological pattern. Their overlap with
other Egyptian samples (in PC space, Fig. 2)
suggests that although their morphology is
distinctive, the pattern does overlap with the other
time periods. These results therefore do not support
the Petrie concept of a \Dynastic race" (Petrie, 1939;
Derry, 1956). Instead, the results suggest that the
Egyptian state was not the product of mass
movement of populations into the Egyptian Nile
region, but rather that it was the result of primarily
indigenous development combined with prolonged
small-scale migration, potentially from trade, military,
or other contacts.
This evidence suggests that the process of state
formation itself may have been mainly an indigenous
process, but that it may have occurred in association
with in-migration to the Abydos region of the Nile
Valley. This potential in-migration may have
occurred particularly during the EDyn and OK. A
possible explanation is that the Egyptian state formed
through increasing control of trade and raw
materials, or due to military actions, potentially
associated with the use of the Nile Valley as a
corridor for prolonged small scale movements
through the desert environment.
or Population Change: Formation of the Ancient
Egyptian State. AMERICAN JOURNAL OF
PHYSICAL ANTHROPOLOGY 132:501-509)
quote:.
Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:
quote:--Jean Hiernaux
The oldest remains of Homo sapiens sapiens found in East Africa were associated with an industry having similarities with the Capsian. It has been called Upper Kenyan Capsian, although its derivation from the North African Capsian is far from certain. At Gamble's Cave in Kenya, five human skeletons were associated with a late phase of the industry, Upper Kenya Capsian C, which contains pottery...
The skeletons are of very tall people. They had long, narrow heads, and relatively long, narrow faces. The nose was of medium width; and prognathism, when present, was restricted to the alveolar, or tooth-bearing, region... all their features can be found in several living populations of East Africa, like the Tutsi of Rwanda and Burundi, who are very dark skinned and differ greatly from Europeans in a number of body proportions...
From the foregoing, it is tempting to locate the area of differentiation of these people in the interior of East Africa. There is every reason to believe that they are ancestral to the living 'Elongated East Africans'. Neither of these populations, fossil and modern, should be considered to be closely related to the populations of Europe and western Asia.
[...]
"In sub-Saharan Africa, many anthropological characters show a wide range of population means or frequencies. In some of them, the whole world range is covered in the sub-continent. Here live the shortest and the tallest human populations, the one with the highest and the one with the lowest nose, the one with the thickest and the one with the thinnest lips in the world. In this area, the range of the average nose widths covers 92 per cent of the world range:
only a narrow range of extremely low means are absent from the African record. Means for head diameters cover about 80 per cent of the world range; 60 per cent is the corresponding value for a variable once cherished by physical anthropologists, the cephalic index, or ratio of the head width to head length expressed as a percentage....."
The People of Africa (Peoples of the World Series) (1975)
quote:But the alleles comprising Hg H do.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:No chart you put up shows hg-H has highest diversity IN Africa
Originally posted by xyyman:
And the other chart shows hg-H has highest diversity IN Africa.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
quote:Back to topic,
Originally posted by xyyman:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/04/mixed-race-couples-in-ads-cheerios-ad_n_3384297.html
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
quote:You idea that the alleles comprising haplogroup H show that Haplgroup H has the greatest diversity in Africa is false and is part of you ongoing misinterperatation (or manipulation) of data on alleles.
Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:
quote:But the alleles comprising Hg H do.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:No chart you put up shows hg-H has highest diversity IN Africa
Originally posted by xyyman:
And the other chart shows hg-H has highest diversity IN Africa.
quote:This part was discussed already. And you were proven to be false. You are a eurocentric nut-job, who supports white supremacy with multiple back migrations, of which you don’t have evidence. Whereas the opposite is the case.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:You idea that the alleles comprising haplogroup H show that Haplgroup H has the greatest diversity in Africa is false and is part of you ongoing misinterperatation (or manipulation) of data on alleles.
Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:
quote:But the alleles comprising Hg H do.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:No chart you put up shows hg-H has highest diversity IN Africa
Originally posted by xyyman:
And the other chart shows hg-H has highest diversity IN Africa.
quote:--Frigi et al.
The dates for subhaplogroups H1 and H3 (13,000 and 10,000 years, respectively) in Iberian and North African populations allow for this possibility. Kefi et al.’s (2005) data on ancient DNA could be viewed as being in agreement with such a presence in North Africa in ancient times (about 15,000–6,000 years ago) and with the fact that the North African populations are considered by most scholars as having their closest relations with European and Asian populations (Cherni et al. 2008; Ennafaa et al. 2009; Kefi et al. 2005; Rando et al. 1998). How- ever, considering the general understanding nowadays that human settlement of the rest of the world emerged from eastern northern Africa less than 50,000 years ago, a better explanation of these haplogroups might be that their frequencies re- flect the original modern human population of these parts of Africa as much as or more than intrusions from outside the continent. The ways that gene frequencies may increase or decrease based on adaptive selection, gene flow, and/or social processes is under study and would benefit from the results of studies on autosomal and Y-chromosome markers.
[...]
Haplogroup L1b roots deeply in the human mtDNA phylogeny and has the characteristic motif 16126, 16187, 16189, 16223, 16264, 16270, 116278, 16311. We have collected sequences from the literature that fall into this cluster. From these sequences we have built a median-joining network by specifying the transversion at np 16114 and the deletion at np 16166 (Rando et al. 1998). The populations are scattered over the network; six nodes are shared between sub-Saharan and northwest African populations. The structure of the network can roughly be described as a double star with one of the centers being the ancestral haplotype. These nodes are separated at np 16293 (transition), testifying to an expansion event that involved both central sequence types. The age of this expansion is calculated as 16,000 years.
[...]
There were eight different haplotypes, and all were unique. Most of these haplotypes are phylogenetically divergent, indicating unrelated introduction to Tunisian populations from western or eastern sub-Saharan populations. Indeed, taking into account the Tunisian sequences belonging to haplogroup L2a from Sejnane, Zriba, Kesra, Matmata, Sned, and Chenini-Douiret, we obtain a divergence age of about 28,000 ± 8,900 years, which is the same age calculated for this haplogroup including all the described sequences. However, we noticed two pairs of related haplotypes in the Kesra population, where we detected a local evolution of the L2a cluster, suggesting that this haplogroup could have been introduced earlier in Kesra.
quote:--Erwan Pennarun, Toomas Kivisild et al.
"No southwest Asian specific clades for M1 or U6 were discovered. U6 and M1 frequencies in North Africa, the Middle East and Europe DO NOT FOLLOW similar patterns, and their sub-clade divisions do not appear to be compatible with their shared history reaching back to the Early Upper Palaeolithic."
quote:Investigation-into-the-Mysterious-Epipaleolithic-Maghrebi-Update
Introduction
This entry is supposed to serve as an update and add-on to a blog entry that was first published here back in May 5th, 2010, under the heading, An Investigation into the "Mysterious" Mesolithic Maghrebi populations.
The arguments made there—in the main, are still quite sound, but over the years, some DNA-assignment shuffling within the reconstructed human mtDNA phylogenetic network had taken place. This sort of thing happens quite a bit in the field of molecular genetics, usually in the form of either changing the phylogenetic location of a newly identified clade or a preexisting one, and/or renaming entire clades with new naming schemes, since researchers tend to see information about larger phenomena in the form of fragments. As such, sometimes previous information (source material), especially on newly identified clades, becomes obscure or rarer. To address a situation such as this, in the few occasions where they may have occurred, this entry has revisited elements of the aforementioned entry, modify as necessary, or simply add to information previously posted.
Discussion
Another driver, though a minor one, for revisiting this subject, is the tremendous popularity of population genetics of coastal northern Africa in the so-called "west". People in the so-called "west" tend to have a bizarre fascination with coastal northern Africa, in contrast to enthusiasm greeted upon other areas of the continent, and in doing so, the people of the sub-region have been taken to "mystical" proportions, that is almost as ridiculous as speaking of extraterrestrial aliens transplanted into a new land where they would subsequently be cordoned off from preexisting inhabitants. With that said, as of this 2013 writing...
L1b and L2a subclades have tested positive for transition 16126C. L3 was earlier implicated (see older content of the main entry) in this mutation; examples for this, reportedly occur in the L3d, L3e (L3e2), and L3f clades [4].
Transition 16355T appears in subclade L5a, L2c, L2b, L2e [1], L1c3a1b, L3k1 [2], L4b2 [5] and L2d [3]. It’s worth noting the presence of this polymorphism in the so-called L-type aforementioned clades, but also, that while it appears in the R sub-haplogroup of the L3N clade, the location of both transition 16126C and 16355T in 2 mutually independent sub-haplogroups of the R clade, which are in turn mutually independent of hg N sub-haplo-groups N1a1a and N11 [2], where 16355T again appears, whereas either polymorphism is rendered absent in other sub-haplogroups of hg R and hg N super-clades, suggests that these polymorphisms have independently emerged multiple times in distinct mtDNA organelles.
These sites are thus highly polymorphic compared to some other sites, and chance occurrence in mutually independent mtDNA clades is also quite high; in other words, these polymorphisms in on themselves, cannot reliably be used in absence of additional differentiating data to draw solid conclusions about haplogroup assignment with high confidence. Also helpful, is the possible necessity of not only solid reproduction of results in more than a single individual [e.g. polymorphisms 16126C and 16355T were pinned on a single individual], but as noted in the earlier passages, solid reproductions of results involving several different runs of DNA sequencing involving the very same individuals.
More examples of convergent mutations across different mitochondrial clades, recalling other earlier posted material: Take the aforementioned mutations at np 16298 rendering the mtDNA clade assignment into divergent super-clades; to this end, L3 was given as an example—add hg M7b or M8, as other exemplary alternatives.
Likewise, the transition at np 16179 (16179T) has been reportedly identified in L3 (xL3M, L3N). While it remains valid that the noted mutations at np 16179 and 16298 respectively occur in hg L3h1, it is important to note, and hence clarify, that they don’t occur in a single haplotype, but two different sub-clades (L3h1b1 and L3h1a1 respectively [2]); better phylogenetic resolution of this clade over the course of nearly the last three years, i.e. since the main entry passages were posted, has now made it possible to pinpoint such specifics. On the other hand, no material yet available to the present author has shed light on occurrence of the 16179T mutation in hg V, the clade of Kefi et al.’s choice.
In the older passages of the main entry, it was mentioned that L1 could well be a relatively “distant possibility”, or alternative to that which Kefi & co. preferred to associate with the alleged incidence of the 16179T; it appears that since then, further shuffling of the human mtDNA phylogenetic network has now rendered the initial sourcing, which had led to the drawing of that assessment, obscure. However, in lieu, new publication puts forward L0dx [6], which is reportedly defined by 16179T and is reckoned to be a possible subclade of hg L0d1, as a possible candidate for DNA-assignment consideration. Clades L4b (L4b1), L3d, and L3e (L3e1) happen to be yet other such candidates.
Mutation 16124T/C, as noted in the main entry, could allow for assignment into hg L3, with 16124T reported in L3b1a [2], and 16124C reported in L3e2 (L3e2a [4]), L3d and L3b, for example. The earlier notes of the main entry also briefly noted possible assignment into L3, with regards to the alleged transition to T polymorphism at np 16239; possible L3 candidates for this are reportedly L3d again, and L3e (L3e2 and L3e2b [4]), while the mutation is found across other L-type clades, namely hg L0 (L0f2, L0d1), L1b ( L1b2), L2a (L2a1c2 [2]), L2e and L4b (L4b1).
The aforementioned L3h1b1 clade had been implicated in the polymorphism at np 16179; however, the same clade had also been implicated in the earlier entry as a possible candidate for clade assignment for the polymorphisms at np 16172 (16172C) and np 16126 (16126C). With regards to the latter situation, it appears that DNA network reshuffling has—once again—now rendered the primary source for this observation either obscure or outdated, in contrast to what the situation was back in 2010. The subclade which may have had the necessary nucleotide attributes that fit these two latter polymorphisms under L3h1b may have been reassigned to some other position within the mtDNA network. As such, it’s only fitting to look towards what currently available information suggests:
Citing from earlier posting, it was noted...
The positions "16172C" and the aforementioned "16126C" could place a specimen (Taf XXIV) in a rare L3h1b1 marker, and likewise, Taf V19E in either some L3h1b1 derivative, L1a subclade, or even M1 subclade, which all have variants bearing the 16172C mutation, assuming that Kefi et al.'s reports for either specimens doesn't involve exogenous mutations, and that homoplasic mutational events took place across hgs L3h1b1, L1a, U6, M1 and possibly, per Kefi et al.'s reckoning, JT in the HVR1 control region. - An Investigation into the "Mysterious" Mesolithic Maghrebi populations, 2010.
The earlier noting of 16172C location within Hgs M1, U6, and L1a still have merit, although it’s worth noting that L1a has been re-assign in the network or treated as L0a in some publications. L1, L3e1, L3, and L4b2a2 (L4b2a2b) have all tested positive for 16172C polymorphism.
With regards to the 16174T mutation, also mentioned in the notes from 2010 (main entry), L0f1 clade has tested positive for 16174T [2], as did L3 [4], which is worth pointing out, as it appears that Kefi et al. treated that mutation [not to dismiss the record that it has been located in U6-identified DNA] as another primary identifying polymorphism for U6 consideration in DNA assignment, although it is otherwise rarely treated as such in many other publications. So, it appears that all three polymorphisms, namely 16126C, 16172C, and 16174T have appeared in L3 clades [4]; in other words, the DNA assigned to U6 by Kefi et al., could just as well be outright placed in L3.
To build on the last few observations, L3e2b clades (including L3e2b1a1, L3e2b3 sub-clades [4]) have tested positive for both 16126C and 16172C [4]. There is rarely, if any, publication that treats 16126C as a primary identifying polymorphism for U6, yet Kefi et al. has treated this mutation just as that.
References are as follows:
1 - Kerchner.com
2 - PhyloTree.org
3 - Howell et al. 2004, African Haplogroup L mtDNA Sequences Show Violations of Clock-like Evolution.
4 - Family Tree DNA
5 - SNPedia
6- Schlebusch et al. 2013, MtDNA control region variation affirms diversity and deep sub-structure in populations from southern Africa.
— Kefi et al. (2005), Mitochondrial Diversity of the Population of Taforalt (12,000 years b.p. - Morocco): A Genetic Study Approach to the Peopling of North Africa.
Recommended reading: An Investigation into the "Mysterious" Mesolithic Maghrebi populations
quote:Well at least Sofia Boutella is Algerian.
Originally posted by mena7:
quote:I just came back to me, from an old thread on the movie Focus:
Originally posted by xyyman:
the slap
headless horsman
scandal
numerous commercials etc\\
maybe I will make a list. There is definitely an uptick
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by kdolo:
[QB] 1. Kosher Soul: new reality show.
White "jew" woman and Negro/Black American man married....
2. Focus: movie ..Will Smith and "blond" Margot Robbie
/QUOTE]
look at the thread title again
quote:http://screenrant.com/will-smith-focus-movie-cast-kristen-stewart-passes/
"Will Smith In Talks For Heist Flick ‘Focus'; Kristen Stewart No Longer Costarring"
Crazy, Stupid, Love directors Glenn Ficarre and John Requa were hoping to work again with leads Ryan Gosling and Emma Stone on a heist-comedy titled Focus, but scheduling didn’t work out and the filmmakers ended up casting Ben Affleck and Kristen Stewart instead; now, both those actors have left the project, and Will Smith has entered talks to come aboard.
Affleck dropped Focus in order to… uh, focus his attention on writing, directing and starring in the Dennis Lehane novel adaptation Live by Night. As for Stewart, the Twilight actress reportedly exited the project sometime over the past few weeks, perhaps to prepare for her role in The Big Shoe (since the only other major project on her docket, the Snow White and the Huntsman sequel, is a ways off from beginning production in the near future).
THR is reporting that Smith has entered talks to take the Focus role that Gosling and Affleck were eyed for, which is a seasoned con man who becomes romantically involved with a novice – the role that Stone and Stewart were in line for – just as he encounters an old flame, while preparing to execute his most elaborate job yet (perhaps the coveted “one last job,” in fact).
Smith returned from a four-year acting break last year in Men in Black III, and is headed back to the big screen this June in M. Night Shyamalan’s After Earth. He’ll appear in Winter’s Tale thereafter, and is attached to numerous projects that are stuck in early development right now, so there’s a reasonable chance he’ll sign on for Focus and help get the movie into theaters by sometime next year.
Focus would be a change of pace for Smith, after him making so many big-budget tentpoles that fall within the action, sci-fi and comedy genres (often a combination of the three); not to mention, it sounds as though the central role ought to play to his strengths as an actor with a charismatic and magnetic screen personality.
The script was written by Ficarre and Requa, who also scripted Bad Santa and both wrote and directed I Love You Phillip Morris together, so the film should offer Will a chance to explore the kind of sardonic comedy and comical satire material that he’s not properly tried his hand at before. Sound good to you?
quote:According to the Memoirs of John Macky, Jews were apparently supposed to be obviously black, and a significant amount of the population in Spain.
Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:
quote:You're right about the part that Jews aren't white people.
Originally posted by CelticWarrioress:
Kdolo, First you stupid Black racist, Black supremacist, White child hating scum bag, Jews are NOT White you peon. Second like King you call the "good Whites" ones that are willing to betray, destroy, tear down their own people & kiss Black booty, grovel at the feet of Blacks, who worship at & are willing to offer up their children as as sacrifice at the alter of the Negro for your sake. Third we are NOT Albinos we do NOT have albinism & our identity as White is NOT fake. There you go trying to strip Whites of an identity again, saying we don't exist you and the half Jew half Black anti-White Lioness.
But we are speaking of the consensus here,
quote:http://www.scienceworldreport.com/articles/10059/20131009/dna-samples-confirm-ashkenazi-jews-are-of-european-descent-study.htm
DNA Samples Confirm Ashkenazi Jews are of European Descent: Study
[...]
A latest DNA study solves the long standing controversy regarding the origin of Europe's Ashkenazi Jews stating that their maternal lineage came from Europe.
[...]
The researchers at the University of Huddersfield used archaeogenetics to solve the controversy of the origin of Ashkenazi Jews of whether they migrated from Palestine in the first century AD or their ancestors were Europeans who converted to Judaism.
quote:http://www.livescience.com/40247-ashkenazi-jews-have-european-genes.html
Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European
Though the finding may seem intuitive, it contradicts the notion that European Jews mostly descend from people who left Israel and the Middle East around 2,000 years ago. Instead, a substantial proportion of the population originates from local Europeans who converted to Judaism, said study co-author Martin Richards, an archaeogeneticist at the University of Huddersfield in England.
The genetics suggest many of the founding Ashkenazi women were actually converts from local European populations.
